FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Kegs to kettles ("Westemeier*, Ed")
  hot break (Darren Aaberge)
  Sprecher Brewery (Domenick Venezia)
  Regulators (Bill Newcomb)
  Re: Jever Pils (Bill Szymczak)
  Re:  Irish Moss - Extract vs All Grain (Eric M. Mrozek)
  Re:   1/2 bbl SS keg as brewpot (again)  (Mike Peckar  16-Jul-1993 1458)
  Irish Moss Fest/Hop storage/Turbo Dog (korz)
  Hot break & hop utilisation (korz)
  Guinness cans/Protein rest (korz)
  correct measurement of alcohol? (Dick Dunn)
  6oz bottles, bottling mead (Dick Dunn)
  Breweries under water/Alsacian (sp?) beers (waltman)
  Going to Israel? (Nir Navot)
  Recipe Needed (Nir Navot)
  Burton water treatment (Domenick Venezia)
  Belgian Ale Book Reply - At last (Joe Rolfe)
  Weather in Portland ("John L. Isenhour")
  Advertising / Beer in the White House (Jim Graham)


Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu.
  (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from
  listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
  message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 16 Jul 1993 12:14:27 U
From: "Westemeier*, Ed" <westemeier at pharos-tech.com>
Subject: Kegs to kettles

Mike writes:
> Hi again.  Last week I requested a copy of a bygone HBD article posted on
> converting 1/2 bbl kegs. I never got a response. What I did get,
> however, is lots of email expressing interest, so I felt compelled to
> ask again for the article in question. This time my request is for a
> repost, though, since there seems to be lots of interest...

OK, I don't know about the original article, but maybe it would be useful
to describe my own equipment.

START WITH THE KEG

Obtain a half-barrel stainless steel keg (the Budweiser ones seem to be
the best, but most should work).  Be sure you obtain one legally, as
these are the property of the brewery and cannot normally be sold except
by a licensed reconditioning firm.  The fact that you can obtain one
easily by simply getting a keg of beer for a party, then failing to
return it to the distributor and forfeiting your ten dollar deposit,
does not mean that you should even consider this method, I strongly
advise against it, and sundry other assorted disclaimers.

CLEAN AND GUT THE BEAST

Make CERTAIN the keg is empty and that there is NO pressure left in it. 
Press down hard on the ball bearing in the top to be sure.  Remove the
built-in valve as follows:  Take a small flat blade screwdriver and
insert it just under the lip of the housing.  You will find that a flat
circular strip of spring steel is holding the assembly together.  Pry
under the end of this ring until you can coax it out toward the center,
then grab it with a pair of pliers and pull it completely out.  Then use
your pliers again to grab one of the two opposing lugs, turn the whole
assembly counter-clockwise about half an inch until it lines up with the
openings in the housing.  Then simply lift it up and out of the keg,
tube and all.  This may not sound simple, but if you read this with an
actual keg in front of you, everything will be quite obvious.

PERFORM SURGERY

You need to cut out the top and make a hole in the side.  Here's the way
I did mine:  Draw a 12-inch diameter circle with a magic marker on the
top of the keg, centered.  That's plenty of opening, and allows you to
leave the top rim attached, with its built-in handles.  Mark a spot on
the side, an inch or so up from the bottom rim.  That's where your
spigot will be.  I used my power drill to cut a hole at that spot just
large enough to accommodate a half-inch ID Stainless coupling.  I took
the keg to a friendly neighborhood welder who specializes in TIG
welding, and had him use a plasma cutter to remove the 12-inch circle on
top.  First, he partially filled the keg with water to catch the sparks
dropping inside (made later cleanup much easier).  Then he welded the SS
coupling in the side hole, about half inside the keg and half outside,
grinding and polishing the weld for smoothness.  Cost me $30 and well
worth it.  Stopped at the kitchen gadgets section of a local store and
picked up a pot cover for the top for a few bucks.

SIMPLE PLUMBING

I got a short SS pipe nipple, half-inch thread, and threaded it into the
outside of the coupling.  Attached a ball valve (the kind with the flat
handle, a quarter turn from full off to full on) to that, and a
compression fitting to the outside end of the ball valve. Put a short
length of 3/8 copper tubing in the compression fitting and tightened it
(this is where I attach a hose to drain the kettle).  On the inside of
the keg, I put a Swagelock fitting (like a normal compression fitting,
but you can loosen and tighten it as often as you like) to attach a
piece of 1/4 inch SS tubing.  This tubing runs over to the center of the
keg, then curves down to the bottom, almost touching it.  I took a
circular piece of perforated SS plate about 8 inches in diameter, cut a
hole in the center and put the tubing through it.  End result is that
the perforated plate sits on the bottom of the keg, the tubing comes up
from the bottom, through the plate and over to the fitting in the side. 
Put a brass compression washer on the tubing where it just sits on top
of the plate in order to keep it stable.  When the valve is opened to
drain the kettle, the spent hops and hot break material are held back by
the perforated plate, and the kettle drains completely, leaving only an
ounce or so of liquid behind.

|                                   |
|                      KEG WALL-->  |
|                                   |                 |----
|               COUPLING-->   CCCCCCCCCCCCC           |
|        PIPE NIPPLES-->   NNNNNN      NNNNNNN     ||||||||
| SS TUBING-->   ---------SF--             --------|BALL  |CF---
|                |                                 |VALVE |
|                |  ------SF--             --------|      |CF---
|                |  |      NNNNNN      NNNNNNN     ||||||||
|                |  |         CCCCCCCCCCCCC
|                |  |               |
|     PERF.      |  |               |
|     PLATE      |  |               |
- ---       |      |  |             ---
   ---   \|/    W|  |W         ---
      --- PPPPPPP|  |PPPPPPP---
         ------------------

SF = Swagelock fitting
CF = compression fitting
W = compression washer
The stainless steel perforated plate is hard to find.  One source is
Brewer's Warehouse in Seattle.  For about $50 they will sell you a
square sheet that you can cut in quarters and use for four of these.
jobs.

To clean the kettle after use, I just loosen the inner Swagelock
fitting, remove the tubing and perforated plate, then clean everything
thoroughly and reassemble it.  About 10 minutes at most.

This design was originated by Martin Manning, one of our local club
members, and has been used with various adaptations by a number of us. 
It works extremely well, and with this beauty sitting on top of a Cajun
Cooker, a converted water heater burner, or a small apartment size gas
stove, you will be the envy of all the other brewers on your street.

If anything is not clear, please ask questions before you start cutting.

Ed Westemeier   Cincinnati, Ohio    westemeier at delphi.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 09:43:18 PDT
From: dra at jsc-ws.sharpwa.com (Darren Aaberge)
Subject: hot break

I think the confusion about when the hot break happens is coming from the fact
that we are trying to pinpoint an exact moment in time that it happens.  In
hbd 1183, Steve Casselman writes:

>The hot break begins at the begining of the boil, 
>anyone unclear on this should bring an all grain
>(extracts have small hot breaks) beer just to
>boiling and then turn the burner down to observe
>the floculation of proteins. 

the key word here is *begins*.  The hot break does begin at the beginning of
the boil but takes about 60 minutes to complete.  I think the key about adding
hops is to wait until enough of the hot break has occured to give the
uncoagulated proteins nucleation sites of other protein instead of hops.

Darren Aaberge

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 09:59:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>
Subject: Sprecher Brewery

My understanding of what happened at the Sprecher Brewery 
in Milwaukee is that a barge ran aground and smacked into
the building.  This little bit of info is from Mrs. Sprecher
(Randy's mom) by way of his sister Cindy (who works here).
This collision may have been the trigger for the events
described by Roger Deschner.  I'll post it as I hear it.

Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
venezia at zgi.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 10:16:57 PDT
From: nuke at reed.edu (Bill Newcomb)
Subject: Regulators

Someone asked about regulators for nitrogen (N2) and carbon dioxide (CO2),
specifically whether there is any difference between the two. The mian
difference between two such regulators in a scientific catalog would
probably be either the range of output pressure adjustability, or the
graduation of the gauges, as CO2 has a much lower primary (tank side)
pressure than N2 (800 vs. 2100). Oh, and the connection to the tank is a
different "nipple" (not my word) for different gases, except that most of
the real inert gases (He, Ar, N2) use the same one (#580). Interestingly,
the CO2 fitting (#320) is also used for some freons.

Caveat: Your homebrew store regulator may not be rated to such a high tank
side pressure, as it may have been designed with CO2 expressly in mind.
Simply connecting the correct nipple for N2 to it (most of the connections
to the regulator are 1/4" NPT) might not be such a good idea. This is based
on a certain regulator I saw once that was mostly machined aluminum. For all
I know, it's probably fine. YMMV.

Bill
- --

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 13:57:53 EDT
From: bszymcz%ulysses at relay.nswc.navy.mil (Bill Szymczak)
Subject: Re: Jever Pils

In HBD1183 Chris Pencis asks:

>Ok, here's a question from my homebrewing partner...does anyone out
>there know anything about the beer Jever...on the label it says
>something about using "freisian herbs"  (where's fresia?!) ... does
>anyone know what these things are - has anyone tried to replicate this
>brew ... in general, can anyone give us the low down on this beer (its
>not in Jackson, Finch or anywhere in Papazian) ... thanks.

I had the pleasure of having Jever (pronounced yay-ver) while in
Ekenforde, Germany last year.  This is a beer in the north German
pilsener style, which in general is very dry with lots of hop
bitterness, but Jever is even more so.  I think the "fresnian herbs"
are simply referring to the flavoring hops used, which give a nice
spiciness to this beer.  I'm not sure which type although I would
guess Satz.  When I first tasted this beer I thought it was too 
bitter for my tastes, but since returning home, I've been longing 
for more.

By the way, Jever is mentioned in Jackson's pocket guide, in
the northern German section (I don't have my copy handy).  It 
is one of his 4 star beers.  Fresnia is the name of a province in
Northwestern Germany.

Bill Szymczak
bszymcz at ulysses.nswc.navy.mil

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 11:28:09 PDT
From: mrozek at gandalf.etdesg.TRW.COM (Eric M. Mrozek)
Subject: Re:  Irish Moss - Extract vs All Grain

In hbd #1183 lyons%adc3 asked:

> I've noticed in Charlie's book that he lists Irish Moss as an 
> ingredient for All Grain recipes, but not for Extract recipes.  Am I 
> correct to conclude that only All Grain recipes will benifit by 
> using Irish Moss during the last 15 minutes of the boil?

Up until last Fall, I was only brewing with extract and adjuncts, and I 
"always" used Irish Moss.  The "break" material would settle out and I 
wouldn't have any chill haze.  The couple of times that I did forget the 
Irish Moss, chill haze was a major problem. I'm not sure how much of the haze 
was from the extract as opposed to the adjuncts (I always used adjuncts).  In 
any case, I strongly recommend using adjuncts if your brewing with extract 
(past HBD issues have had lots of discussion on the merits of using adjuncts), 
and using Irish Moss (or some other clarifying agent).

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 11:58:40 PDT
From: Mike Peckar 16-Jul-1993 1458 <m_peckar at cscma.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Re:   1/2 bbl SS keg as brewpot (again) 


Well, this time around I got lots of great suggestions. Thanks to all who
replied to me directly.  When I've completed my project, I will roll up all
the good advice and repost. 

A thorough read of /pub/homebrew/docs/all_grain_equipment.Z in the hbd
archive was invaluable as well. Thanks to Ray Brice for that pointer.

Mike


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 16:33 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Irish Moss Fest/Hop storage/Turbo Dog

lyons writes:
>I've noticed in Charlie's book that he lists Irish Moss as an 
>ingredient for All Grain recipes, but not for Extract recipes.  Am I 
>correct to conclude that only All Grain recipes will benifit by 
>using Irish Moss during the last 15 minutes of the boil?

Both may benefit, but I suspect that some of the hot break that occurred
during the production of the extract has been removed (judging from the
much smaller amount of hot break in extract brews).  I'd also like to
add that I just read the article by George Fix that Jeff referred to in
his post and that, based on George's tests, different forms of Irish Moss
behaved very differently.  All reduced haze in varying amounts, but some
also reduced head retention significantly.  The best results, in my
opinion were from "refined flakes" at a rate of 1/8th grams per liter,
which performed slightly better than "large flakes" and much better than
"powdered flakes."  I'm not sure what type of flakes I was using -- they
were not powdered and were on the order of 2mm wide and 10mm long --
so I'm off in search for a supplier of "refined flakes!"

***********************
Mark writes:
>deteriorate.  Oxygen also causes the alpha acids to oxidize and one of the
>oxidation components is responsible for the "cheesy" aroma of old hops.  The

and then later:

>The oils also deteriorate and oxidize over time.  It is believed that some
>oxidation of the oils is beneficial to the hop aroma.  Since most homebrewers

I've read somewhere that Hallertauer hops benefit from a small amount of
aging (most certainly under controlled conditions), but don't recall where.
I'll look for that source over the weekend and see if I can post something
about it on Monday.

Since I brew pureculture Lambieks, I intentionally have been buying more
hops than I can use and then storing part of them at room temperature in
bags open to the air.  As has been reported in various articles (one
that quickly comes to mind is in the Hops Special Issue of Zymurgy) different
the bouquets of different varieties of hops change differently with age.  I
have at least six varieties of hops aging and I can attest that some age
more gracefully than others.  The dominant bouquet of well-aged Fuggles is
"cheezy."  No doubt about it.  No other hops have as much of this "cheezy"
aroma as do the Fuggles.  Hallertauer and Willamette have a definate "piney"
smell which is quite pleasant, but the Willamette also have a "grape soda"
aroma which is highly distracting when associated with beer.  Goldings seem
to age incredibly gracefully, their "candylike" classic aroma just simply
fades.  Perhaps a bit of a grassy aroma is also evindent, but only very
slightly.  Well-aged Cascades also have the "piney" aroma, but their
characteristic "citrusy" aroma is still noticable, even after two years!

The point I'm trying to make is that "cheezy" aromas are not the only
ones that manifest themselves as hops age.  The other lesson to be learned
here is that for pLambieks, Hallertauer and East Kent Goldings are the
best choices of the hops I happen to have tried (reportedly Saazer hops
are also very good for pLambieks, but I've yet to take them out of
CO2-purged/oxygen-barrier cold storage -- I will when this year's crop
becomes available).  I feel that Willamette and Cascades may be a bad
choice, but the Willamette are not that old yet, so time may tell otherwise.

Also:
>Variety                 % Alpha Remaining after 6 mo. 
>                        at 20C or Storage Quality

>Liberty                          40%

>Perle                            85%

While the data I have (from HopUnion) is consistent with all the other
storagability factors Mark listed, the averages I have are 45% for Liberty
and 83% for Perle.

******************************
Jim writes:
> Abita Amber - nice amber beer. good stuff
>
> Abita Golden - only tried a small bit of this, seemed OK, but nothing
> real notable
>
> Turbo Dog - an interesting dark beer. kinda (excessively) roasted
> malty tasting to me, you might like it if you like dark beers, hard
> to say. About the name - "yeah, the owners were sitting around
> drinking one day after brewing the first batch and came up with that"

The story I heard was that it was selling poorly under another name and
when they changed the name to "Turbo Dog" they couldn't brew it fast
enough.

Al.

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 16:42 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Hot break & hop utilisation

Spencer writes:
>What Jeff says meshes nicely with some of the books on historical
>brewing I've been reading recently (things like _The English Housewife
> ..._, by Gervase Markham around 1600; _Wines & beers of old New
>England_,  S. Brown, 1978).  You find statements like "boil it until
>it 'breaks'".  This seems to imply that the break happens at the end.

Then Steve writes:
>The hot break begins at the begining of the boil, 
>anyone unclear on this should bring an all grain
>(extracts have small hot breaks) beer just to
>boiling and then turn the burner down to observe
>the floculation of proteins. IMHO no hops should
>be added untill a hot break occurs as hop introduce
>nucleation sites that would otherwise be started
>by the larger proteins. This will give a brighter
>beer. By the way the hot break happends when the
>larger proteins come in contact with the interphase
>between steam and wort cooking them just as blood
>will form a solid when heated. I've seen flocs
>the size of dollar bills in my 40-gal brew system
>allways at the begining of the boil.

With all due respect to Jeff and Spencer, I have to say that in my
experience, the majority of the hot break occurs within the first 15
minutes of the boil.  When I got home yesterday, I checked Papazian,
Miller, Noonan, Fix and Hough (The Biotechnology of Malting and Brewing).

Papazian says: "After a short period of boiling, your wort begins
to exhibit a coudiness and has flakes of coagulated protein floating
in it."  Miller does not say exactly when he feels the break begins
to occur, but does mention that "wort can stand at the boiling point
for any length of time and, unless it is agitated, will remain turbid.
It is the rolling action of the boil which bumps the protein molecules
into one another, causing them to clump together."  From this I'd
like to point out that the geometry of the boiler, whether or not
there are mechanical stirrers and the intensity of the heat source
all are factors in the intensity of the hot break and it may be *that*
which influences various authors' opinions on when the break occurs.
Personally, I noticed a much quicker hot break when I switched from
my electric stovetop to a 12,000BTU gas burner.  I'm only speculating,
but since the Electrim Bins are quite popular in the UK, perhaps Line's
experience has been with these types of heat sources and not with
the significantly hotter heat sources some of us are using (I know
brewer's around here using upwards of 100,000BTU burners!  Jack?
Tim?).

Moving on to Noonan, this is another one of those sources that Jeff
mentioned, that is quite unspecific as to when the hot break occurs.
Fix appears to confirm Jeff's position: "For standard boiling
temperature (100C), the precipitate increases sharply during the
first hour, and often continues to rise (though at a diminishing rate)
for 1 1/2 to 2 hours.  Excessive boil time (3 hours or more) can
lead to a redissolving or the precipitate."  However, this is still
does not contradict my assertion that a large portion of the hot break
occurs during the first 15 minutes of the boil.  Later, he says: "[hot
break] comprises the the coagulated material and gums suspended in
otherwise clear hot wort at the end of the boil."  I'd like to
caution reading this statement as if the "end of boil" means that
that's when the break occurred, rather that at the end of the boil,
this material is *still* suspended in the hot wort.

Finally, Hough also is not clear as to when the break occurs, but
has a very detailed description of the protein reactions during the
boil.  Several interesting points are: "The larger denatured [protein]
molecules tend to exceed their solubility, especially if close to
their isoelectric point [this is dependent on the pH of the wort].
When they coagulate, often tanned by the malt and hop polyphenols,
hop resins tend to adsorb to them and so valuable hop material is
lost.  Indeed it is common for only 30-50% of the alpha acid material
to be represented as iso alpha acids in the wort.  The utilisation
falls to 20-40% by the time that beer goes into package."

Al.

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 16:46 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Guinness cans/Protein rest

Russ writes:
>>It's not NO2 and I don't believe there's any nitrogen at all in the cans.
>
>While you are correct that the Draught in the cans is a unique recipe and so
>tastes considerably different from what we are used to (the bottled version)
>there "is" liquid nitrogen added to the Draught as it is canned. This is used

I stand corrected... nitrogen is added to the cans, but I think the *liquid*
nitrogen part was created by someone on the HBD.  The most definative post
was a copy of an article posted to the HBD -- here's part of it:

>>>   "The extra ingredient in a can of draught Guinness" 
>>>    NEW SCIENTIST, 22 July 1989 p. 34
>>> 
>>>    Written by Andy Coghlan
>>> 
>>>        According to Alan Frage, the product development director at
>>>Guinness...
>>>
>>>        Draught Guinness owes its creamy texture to a surge of bubbles in
>>>the beer as it passes through a series of tiny holes in the special
>>>dispensing tap.  The tap has a system of tiny holes which creates pressure
>>>differentials.
>>>        These differentials force the gases out of solution and produce a
>>>"surge". Unfortunately, the gasses wil remain in solution if people simply
>>>pour Guinness from the barrel into a glass.
>>>        The new system essentially mimics this process from the inside of a
>>>can.  The device is a plastic chamber with a minute hole at the top, which
>>>sits on the base of the cans.
>>>        For the system to work, the pressure in the can must exceed
>>>atmospheric pressure.  The canners fill the can with beer that is cold
>>>enough, at between 0 C and 1 C, to retain gas that would bubble out of
>>>solution at higher temperatures.
>>>        The canners put 440 milliliters of Guinness in a can that can hold
>>>500 milliliters, in order to leave enough room for the creamy head to form.
>>>They also "dose" the beer with extra nitrogen, which raises the pressure
>>>when the can is opened.
>>>        Once the lid is on, the pressures in the can and inside the chamber
>>>reach an equilibrium that forces beer and gas into the device. When someone
>>>opens the can of beer by pulling the ring-pull, it initiates the same
>>>process that happens in a tap for Draught Guinness.

**************************
Conn writes:
>could be useful for ales which have not received a protein rest. As ale malt
>is not reputed to contain protein digestion enzymes anyway, I presume the 
>problem that Miller is really referring to is that of using wheat malt and/or
>flaked cereals without a protein rest.

I just checked Miller's TCHoHB and I can't find where he says that Pale Ale
malt deficient in proteolytic enzymes.  He does say that the higher kilning
temperatures mean that Pale Ale malt is lower (overall) in enzymes, but
does not specifically say that proteolytic enzymes are denatured excessively.

Pale Ale malt actually has less need for proteolytic enzymes because of the
fact that it is more fully modified (than traditional, undermodified Lager
malt) and therefore more of the proteins have been broken down during the
malting process (this is from Papazian's TCJoHB).

An additional piece of interesting data I recalled from re-reading Miller
was that just as there are two main types of amylase enzymes (that break
starches down to dextrins and sugars), similarly there are two main types
of proteolytic enzymes: proteases and peptidases.  The optimum range for
the action of the proteases is 122 to 140F and for peptidases, the optimum
range is 113 to 122F.  The proteases prefer to work on larger proteins and
the peptidases can only break down smaller proteins.  Sound familiar?
Therefore, a higher temperature protein rest will favor the proteases and
leave more small proteins (which we want for head retention, body, etc.)
and a lower temperature protein rest will favor the peptidases and cut
more of the smaller proteins down to amino acids.  Miller does mention
that a high-temperature protein rest could result in a wort low in the
amino acids needed by the yeast for nutrition, but adds that well-modified
grain already has quite a bit of the amino acids already (this is confirmed
in Papazian) and thus should not be a problem.  Since there are few modern,
severely undermodified malts available, I don't think this should be a
problem for us to worry about.  In any event, this is just one more factor
that we should be wary of when considering the big protein/small protein/
amino acid composition of our wort, and not just write "I did a 30 min
protein rest, then raised the temperature to..."

Al.

Return to table of contents


Date: 16 Jul 93 23:40:54 MDT (Fri)
From: rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: correct measurement of alcohol?

Anybody know how to do accurate alcohol measurement?  I'm looking for the
equipment to do a single post-fermentation measurement; I'm trying to get
away from the initial/final SG "potential alcohol" approach.  I know the
principle: distill a known quantity enough to get all the alcohol, add
water to get a known final volume, measure gravity of result.  What I
*don't* know is where to get the equipment to do it with reasonable
accuracy, and the details of the procedure.  It doesn't seem like it
should be rocket science.  (Aside: is there a procedure other than the
one I've described?)

Also, since I mentioned the naughty "d" word in the process...and since
I'm not interested in meeting any of the nice government folks who watch
weapons, beverages, and carcinogens...what are the legal implications of
measuring alcohol by the process I described?

Incidentally, the reason I need to get away from initial/final measure-
ments is that they don't work when you've got lots of fermentable solid
matter (such as fruit pulp) at the start of fermentation.
 ---
Dick Dunn    rcd at eklektix.com   -or-   raven!rcd    Boulder, Colorado USA
   ...Simpler is better.

Return to table of contents


Date: 16 Jul 93 23:19:58 MDT (Fri)
From: rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: 6oz bottles, bottling mead

Rex K. Perkins <70651.1611 at CompuServe.COM> asked:
> I am about to start my first mead and was recently pondering the problem
> of bottling the stuff. As it is going to be mighty strong, I won't really
> want to drink it 12oz at a time...

Let me interject before we get to the main point: Are you sure you won't
want 12 oz bottles?  My experience is that most of the meads I've made,
I've wanted either in 12's or a combination of 12's and 25's--the latter
for parties, the former for home.  The only exceptions for me have been
a rather dearly obtained prickly-pear melomel, and a very strong, spicy,
sweet metheglin that's almost like a liqueur.

I reason thus:  Most mead is comparable to wine, both in alcoholic strength
(10-12%) and in general character and strength of taste.  The standard size
of a wine bottle is just over 25 oz, and that's just right for two people.
Thus half of that (a standard 12 oz beer bottle) is theoretically right
for one person.

Two more bits, one on either side.  In favor of small bottles, mead is
precious stuff; you don't want to be pouring heavy just 'cause that's the
bottle size you've got.  BUT!...remember that a mere 5-gallon batch is one
*hundred* 6-oz bottles!  If you like bottling as much as most of us do...
need I say more?

But all of that is just an "are you sure...?"

> It will also be sparkling, so re-sealable
> screw caps won't help either. So, the natural solution would be for
> smaller bottles.
 ...
> My question is: Where can I get 6-8oz bottles from?...

Old Foghorn (Anchor's barley wine) comes in 187 ml (6.3 oz) bottles...
that's an excellent way to get some.  Now, you may object "But if I get
the bottles that way, they'll already have something in them!"  This,
however, turns out to be an easy problem...;-)

Thomas Hardy's Ale (another barleywine) comes in 180 ml bottles, so there's
another source, but quite expensive.

Both OF and TH are nice bottles, though.  It's probably not an immediate
solution to your problem (people don't seem to drink much barleywine in
mid-summer) but over the longer term it's a way to acquire nice bottles,
a taste for very strong beer, and either incipient liver damage or a bunch
of friends who are glad to help you obtain empty bottles.

My turn to ask:  Since Anchor has had to obtain the little bottles,
somebody somewhere makes them in substantial-but-not-staggering quantities.
Might it be possible to find out who supplies the bottles to Anchor and see
if they'll supply in few-case quantities?
 ---
Dick Dunn    rcd at eklektix.com   -or-   raven!rcd    Boulder, Colorado USA
   ...Simpler is better.

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 02:09:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: waltman at BIX.com
Subject: Breweries under water/Alsacian (sp?) beers


Roger Deschner (U52983 at UICVM.UIC.EDU) asks in HBD #1183 about breweries
clobbered by the Great Flood of '93:

CNN had a story last week about a brewpub near the riverfront in Davenport,
IA that had just opened this year, had had some minor damage in a spring
flood and was pretty much wiped out by the current deluge. I did not catch
the name of the pub or the owner. It was sad to listen to him as he told
how all of the tanks had to be dumped. As a former Iowan, I am proud of
how civilized people are still with all the tribulations. I doubt that here

without running water and/or electricity.

I have always liked Alsacian beers and was wondering if anyone had any ideas
or suggestions for duplication. Thanks in advance.

Fred Waltman.
waltman at bix.com

Return to table of contents


Date:         Sat, 17 Jul 93 10:51:36 +0300
From: Nir Navot <LCNAVOT at WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL>
Subject:      Going to Israel?

If you are planning a visit to the HolyLand any time in the present or future,
please give me a call. I'll make sure you won't miss your homebrew while here.
At least I give it a try.

Nir Navot
Tel   972-8-474580
Email LCNAVOT at weizmann.weizmann.ac.il

Return to table of contents


Date:         Sat, 17 Jul 93 11:03:18 +0300
From: Nir Navot <LCNAVOT at WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL>
Subject:      Recipe Needed

I need an all grain recipe for a dark, sweet, non-bitter ale of O.G. around
1.040. Yes, I have looked through the Cat's Meow.
Please reply by private Email. Many thanks.
Nir Navot

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 08:05:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>
Subject: Burton water treatment

I recently bought some  Burton Water treatment salts from
Alternative Beverage.  Unfortunately there is no info on
what is in it or how much to use to attain a target PPM.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Also the stuff contains Papain (not mentioned in the catalog!).
Since Papain acts at pretty low temps (~120-125) I assume that
it is deactivated in a single step infusion mash at ~150-155?

Why would someone add Papain to a water treatment.  Isn't it
generally used in the secondary?  And why wasn't it mentioned 
in the catalog?

Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
venezia at zgi.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 17 Jul 93 17:47:50 EDT
From: Joe Rolfe <jdr at wang.com>
Subject: Belgian Ale Book Reply - At last

hi all,

sorry for the long delay - to refresh your memories - many months ago
several people posted directly to me questions about Pierre Rajjottes book
Belgian Ale.  The questions were delvered to Pierre (just after the blizzard)
started this past winter/spring.  Pierre has been very busy looking up 
source to give the best answers possible.  I now have the answers in hand.

only a small problem prevents me from posting them here:
they are on MAC formatted disks and hard copy - i have a dos PC - damn 
computers.  any way what i am going to do is either scan and ocr them or c
convert the media.  in either case i will post the results to the net of 
your choice.  if the original posters could email me at jdr at wang.com i would
thank you : the orignal posters i have are:

Al Korzonas
Conn Copas
Tim Fahrner
Martin Lodahl
Jim Liddel

The document Pierre has given me (today, in person) is about ten pages long 
and contains several pointers to other docs.  Sorry if i have missed anyone e
else that has posted questions to me - but Pierre has mentioned that you may
contact him directly in Montreal.  Please do not post messages thru HBD as 
of late i do not read this list as often as i would like.  please reply
to me directly at the email enclosed.  

again pierre is sorry for the large delay as am i.  we both hope the info
resolves the errors/problems you have had.

later.......and good brewing........ 
- -- 
joe rolfe    - President/Brewer - Ould Newbury Brewing Company
jdr at wang.com - X Wang Employee, but still have an account 
508-462-1980 - the brewery

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 22:43:41 CST
From: "John L. Isenhour" <isenhour at lambic.fnal.gov>
Subject: Weather in Portland

I was interested in how to pack for Portland, and I thought others might
be interested, but not have access to a server, so...

Weather Conditions at 8 PM PDT on 18 JUL 93 for Portland, OR.

Temp(F)    Humidity(%)    Wind(mph)    Pressure(in)    Weather
========================================================================
  68          63%        NORTH at 12       30.17      Partly Cloudy

PORTLAND METROPOLITAN AREA FORECAST
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE PORTLAND OR
345 PM PDT SAT JUL 17 1993

TONIGHT...A FEW EVENING SHOWERS TAPERING OFF WITH PARTIAL CLEARING. 
LOW 50 TO 55. WEST WIND TO 10 MPH.
SUNDAY...PARTLY SUNNY AFTER MORNING CLOUDS. HIGHS ABOUT 75.
NORTHWEST WIND 10 MPH.  
SUNDAY NIGHT...FAIR. LOWS 50 TO 55.
 MONDAY...PATCHY MORNING CLOUDS...OTHERWISE PARTLY CLOUDY.
HIGHS 75 TO 80.
CHANCE OF MEASURABLE RAIN 30 PERCENT TONIGHT AND 10 PERCENT SUNDAY.

If I dont get flamed off the net for posting this and there is a significant
change in the weather conditions, I'll post it in right before the CRAZY TRAIN
leaves Chicago.  I was just interested in the normal HI/LO temp.

cheers,

- --                                         
John L. Isenhour                          internet: isenhour at lambic.fnal.gov 
Library Systems, et al      NASA/NSF/ES/HEP decnet: lambic::isenhour       
Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory       bitnet: isenhour at fnlib      
"When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt" - Henry Kaiser

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1993 10:48:34 -0600 (CDT)
From: jim at n5ial.mythical.com (Jim Graham)
Subject: Advertising / Beer in the White House

Regarding the subject of adverts here, I think I might have a solution
that would make everybody happy.  I, for one, would prefer to keep a list
of my options in terms of who I buy liquid/dry extract, hops, kits, etc.,
from, and when I eventually get the money and space for mashing, there'll
be a lot more that I'll want to keep up-to-date on.  But not everyone
wants that here on the digest, which is a side I can see, as well (I don't
necessarily agree with it, but I can understand it).

A list could be published here on the digest either every two weeks or
every month (probably once/month would be enough) of all of the people
here who own mail-order homebrew supply shops.  As far as the digest
would be concerned, it ends there.

This list, however, would give an e-mail address for each supplier.  The
suppliers could then keep a mailing list of people who want to receive
new product announcements, price lists, etc., and could then send that
stuff along via private e-mail (this would need to be indicated in the
list published on the digest in order to really work).

In other words, you get the list of the homebrew suppliers here, and a
pointer to the address for getting the rest via e-mail.

Sound like a good idea?

- ----------

Now, regarding the White House beer recipes listed here by
scott.powell at amail.amdahl.com, I've got a few questions.....

First off, are these actually beers, or are they more along the lines of
something like root beer (which, btw, is something I'd like to try brewing
sometime, too, if I ever find out how)?

> Hop Beer
> 
> Take five quarts of water, six ounces of hops, boil it three hours; then
> strain the liquor, add to it five quarts of water, four ounces of bruised
> ginger root; boil this again twenty minutes, strain and add four pounds of
> sugar. When lukewarm put in a pint of yeast.  Let it ferment twenty-four hours
> it will be ready for bottling.

Let's see if I've got this right....  Five quarts (not gallons) of water,
a *pint* of yeast, and it only needs to ferment 24 hours?  Is that just
because of the incredibly large amount of yeast?  (Well, wait a minute,
the next recipe doesn't use that much yeast, and it still looks like a
24 hour ferment.)

> Ginger Beer
> 
> Put into a kettle two ounces of powdered ginger root (or more if it not very
> strong), half an ounce of cream of tartar, two large lemons, cut into slices,
> two pounds of broken loaf sugar and two gallons of soft boiling water.  Simmer
> them over a slow fire for half an hour.  When the liquor is nearly cold, stir
> into it a large tablespoon of the best yeast.  After it has fermented, which
> will be in about twenty-four hours, bottle for use.

What exactly is ``broken loaf sugar'' ???  Where would one get powdered
ginger root to use for this?  And again, only 24 hours?

Final question---how long would these need to age in the bottle?  Anyone
have any idea?

Thanks,
   --jim

- --
#include <std_disclaimer.h>                                 73 DE N5IAL (/4)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
INTERNET: jim at n5ial.mythical.com  |  j.graham at ieee.org     ICBM: 30.23N 86.32W
AMATEUR RADIO:  (packet station temporarily offline)       AMTOR SELCAL: NIAL
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E-mail me for information about KAMterm (host mode for Kantronics TNCs).


Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #1185, 07/20/93