FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  seasonal ales: dryhopping with spices (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Homebrew Digest #1221 (September 08, 1993) (JZABDER)
  iodophor (donald oconnor)
  re: light struck beer ("Bill Kitch")
  lager time & hot liquor tanks/O2 (Jim Busch)
  Heather Ale ("/R=FDACB/R=A1/U=RIDGELY/O=HFM-400/TN=FTS 402-1521/FFN=Bill Ridgely/")
  various (/R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/)
  Thanks from a couple of lurkers (P Brooks)
  Grain Brewing Questions ("Robert H. Reed")
  dry hopping question ("Jeff M. Michalski, MD")
  My opinion on Trub ("Palmer.John")
  RED TAIL ALE RECIPE CLONE WANTED (Richard B Foehringer)
  Addtn to kegging FAQ/liquid-crystal thermometers/T-giving (spiced) ale (korz)
  Re: hazy beer/sparging/separating wort from hops/2-gauge regulators (korz)
  acid bottles / CF chiller cleaning / ??? (npyle)
  Re: Freezers (Don Leonard)
  Primary Fermetor question (geotex)
  Fridge Costs (Kieran O'Connor)
  Re: regulator question  (Drew Lynch)
  Re: Hard, high pH water treatment for new masher (HBD #1205) (Bill Flowers)
  questions on making mead / suggestion re: exploding carboy (Jim Graham)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 8 Sep 93 07:02:27 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: seasonal ales: dryhopping with spices

Randy Mosher of Chicago, an admitted spice-beer addict recommends
using spice "infusions" -- soak the spices in vodka for a week or two,
then add a measured amount to your beer before bottling.  The nice
thing about this approach is that you can test the spicing level in a
glass of beer before "ruining" your whole batch.  Add drops with a
medicine dropper (one with calibrations), then you can scale up from
the volume of the glass (8 oz?) to the whole batch (5*128 oz).

=S

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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 93 05:33:43 PDT
From: JZABDER at BCSC02.GOV.BC.CA
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1221 (September 08, 1993)

To: HOMEBREW--INTERNET homebrew at hpfcmi.fc

*** Reply to note of 09/08/93 00:47
System Operations
Thanks
    Would you please remove me from the distribution list...Thanks

G'day

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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:39:01 -0500
From: donald oconnor <oconnor at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: iodophor


Sometime ago there was a rather spirited discussion about iodophors.  
I didn't have time to add some info at that time but it seems 
iodophor is again topical so I'll pass along a little bit of stuff now.  
Specifically, it seems clear from Kelly Jones post earlier this week 
that there is still confusion regarding acid and detergents in 
iodophor.  

I spoke with Dr. Landum of National Chemical which is the producer 
of BTF iodophor.  Dr. Landum is, like me, a Ph.D. chemist.  This may 
be more than anyone wants to ever know about iodophor but it 
might help clear up some of the confusion.

There have been several types of iodophor produced over the years 
and the general idea behind all of them is the same:  complexed 
molecular iodine in some material that will dissolve in water and 
then release the iodine to kill a bacterium or virus or yeast cell.  An 
organic material is required to form the complex with iodine, but the 
organic material needs to be also soluble in water.  This is 
characteristic of a surfactant and that's why all iodophors contain 
surfactants.  The one in BTF is essentially a large alcohol.  The 
surfactant in the iodophor currently under discussion is a little 
different according to another post on Monday's digest.

Iodophors can be generally broken down into two classes on the 
basis of the production process.  The production 
process dictates in part which surfactant(s) is used, which in turn 
dictates other features such as the presence of acid.  A "hot" process 
was developed in the 30's or 40's and a "cold" process was developed 
in the 50's.  Iodophor produced by the older "hot" process does not 
release the iodine into water very efficiently at neutral pH but will at 
lower pH.  Thus the need to add acid to these iodophors.  Phosphoric 
acid has been mentioned here but several other acids have been 
used over the years.  The newer process resulted in iodophors which 
did not need acid to release the iodine.  BTF and BEST are examples 
of these.

Both types are meant to be used in industrial applications.  Both have 
roughly the same level of iodine.  The differences have to do with the 
surfactants and acid.  The ones containing acid have particular utility 
to dairies because of the effect of the acid in dissolving residual milk 
stone from the equipment.  This of course is not a consideration for 
breweries.  This is not to say that breweries can't use the one with 
acid, but breweries use other cleaning procedures.  The disadvantage 
of the iodophors which contain acid is that they lather or foam when 
agititated, at least more so than the newer iodophors, and this is a 
concern for brewery use.

don

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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 93 08:55:10 CST  
From: "Bill Kitch" <kitchwa at bongo.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: re: light struck beer

in HBD #1221 Tom Nelson writes:
[snip]
>I was wondering when light struck beer begins to be a
>problem.  My recollection is that hop acid, when exposed to light, will
>impart a "Skunky" smell.  If so then even while fermenting you are capable
>of light damaging your beer.  Could anyone expound on this for me.  Do I
>need to keep my primary fermenter in a box (remember the closet is out!).

YES YES YES cover your fermenter with a box, brown paper bag or something
else to block light.  As an experiment a few months ago I bottles some
pale ale in a clear bottle.  I placed the bottle in direct sunlight for
30 minutes and the skunk smell was overwhelming!  I find some of the
descriptions of off-smells and flavor a bit arcane, but this one is right
on SKUNK.

WAK

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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 10:03:05 -0500 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: lager time & hot liquor tanks/O2

IN the last digest:

<In response to questions from Phil Brushaber regarding
lager fermentation:  I have been brewing lager beers
for many years and my experience has been better lagers
are brewed at cooler temperatures: I conduct primary
fermentation at 48F and secondary fermentation at
42F.  There is no question that fermentation at
these temperatures takes several months.


Well.....It only takes 5-7 days at the Old Dominion Brewing Company.
My 1.080 Maibock fermented in 10 days......

The real issue here is a big one in homebrewing: Enough healthy 
yeast (most homebrewers underpitch), enough disolved oxygen (
most homebrewers under oxygenate) and a healthy pool of fermentables
in the bitter wort (usually not an issue, but the breakdown of the 
composition of the fermentables vs nonfermentables will invariably
dictate the degree of attenuation in the finished product). `


I guess the question is :how long does your *fermentation* take? 
ie, how long until the SG has dropped by 75%?  No doubt that some
continual activity/lagering will occur but when everything is 
done perfectly, a lager ferment in between 7-10 days.

*******************
Well, I installed a Hot liquor tank (propane water heater) and much
to my delight, it works perfectly!  The way to sparge with it is
to barely open the hot out faucet. This makes the hot water trickle
onto the grains aroung 163F (hottest setting on the heater).  Cold
city water flows in to the bottom of the heater, where the thermostat 
quickly fires up the burner.  Within 15 minutes, the outlet temp is 
up to 170F!  No modifications required.  This even surpases my 
expectations.

I also hooked up a O2 injecter with a silica airstone.  I bubbled at
~1 psi for 1.5-2 hours.  The ferment kicked in within 4 hours, and by
morning, it was as beautiful as any I have seen.  The taste test will
have to wait two weeks.

Good brewing,
Jim Busch

DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLOND HOPPEBIER!


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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:56:00 EST
From: "/R=FDACB/R=A1/U=RIDGELY/O=HFM-400/TN=FTS 402-1521/FFN=Bill Ridgely/" at mr.cber.fda.gov
Subject: Heather Ale

  KONSTANTINE at delphi.com writes:
  
     >I'm new to the digest and I love all the info that's available.  I'm
     >looking for a recipe for Heather Ale and I was wondering if anyone
     >knows where I can find one.  Thanks again.
  
  Well, here's another opportunity to root through my dusty tomes. The
  following excerpt is from a book called "The Scots Cellar". I only have
  xeroxed pages from this book (I don't even have the author's name right
  offhand). I'll check with the Library of Congress and try to get a complete
  citation. At any rate, here is a cottage recipe, supposedly from the Isle
  of Orkney, for heather ale:
  
     "Crop the heather when it is in full bloom - a good large quantity. Put
     the croppings into a large-sized pot, fill up with water, set to boil.
     Boil for one hour. Then strain into a clean tub. Add one ounce of ground
     ginger, half an ounce of hops, and a pound of golden syrup for every
     dozen bottles. Set to boil again and boil for twenty minutes. Strain
     into a clean cask. Let it stand until milkwarm, then add a teacupful of
     good barm (brewer's yeast). Cover with a coarse cloth till next day.
     Skim the barm from the top and pour gently into a tub so that the barm
     may be left in the bottom. Bottle and cork tight. It will be ready for
     use in two or three days. This makes a very refreshing and wholesome
     drink as there is a good deal of spirit in heather."
  
  The author suggests substituting heather honey for the "golden syrup"
  (which I believe is simply corn syrup). He also suggests using less ginger
  than the recipe specifies, as ginger tends to overpower the subtle flavor
  of the heather. No indication is given as to what comprises a "good large
  quantity" of heather, but the author suggests cropping the heather blossoms
  with as little stalk as possible, as the stalk tends to impart a great deal
  of bitterness.
  
  I believe there is also a heather ale recipe in the book "The Curiosities
  of Ale & Beer" by John Bickerdyke, but my copy is on loan at the moment.
  If I remember correctly, Bickerdyke's recipe simply calls for adding the
  crushed heather blossoms to a standard beer wort before fermenting.
  
  If anyone attempts to recreate this ancient brew (I've given some thought
  to it but haven't as yet), please post the results.
  
     "From the bonny bells o' heather
      They brewed a drink langsyne,
      Was sweeter far than honey,
      Was stronger far than wine."
  
      Robert Louis Stevenson, "Heather Ale"
  
  Bill Ridgely (Brewer, Patriot, Bicyclist)                  __o
  ridgely at a1.cber.fda.gov                                   -\<,
  ridgely at cber.cber.fda.gov                              ...O/ O...
  


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Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1993 10:34:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: /R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/ at mr.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: various

I will be traveing to San Francisco next weekend and would appreciate it 
if anyone would recommend brew pubs or microbreweries to visit.  I've already
been to Anchor.  E-mail responses would be fine to save bandwidth.  (I do not
have access to list servers or archives that I can readily download!)

In response to Greg_Habel concern about his low O.G.  My guess is that he did 
a very limited sparge, using only 3 gallons.  I usually sparge with about 
5 gallons of water and recirculate the first 2 gallons until it clears.  

In regards to the Weix-FAQ.  He did an immeasurable service to many brewers.
For years I have been wanting a handy reference to yeast strains and the band-
width he used was well worth it.  I can't see how people complain when almost
as much bandwidth was taken up on a humorous but almost worthless topic of
how to pronounce "trub."  Get real!  

Andy Kligerman
e-mail address:  kligerman%am%herlvx at mr.rtpnc.epa.gov



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Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1993 16:04:05 -0800
From: pbrooks at rig.rain.com (P Brooks)
Subject: Thanks from a couple of lurkers

This is just a quick note of thanks to all the contributors to the HBD over
the last several months.  After reading HBD (and rec.craft.brewing) for a
couple months while making our own, my partner and I decided that all grain
really didn't look _all_ that hard.  

So - after digging thru the archived HBD's that I had, and reading
everything that related to mash/lauter tun's, easymashers (tm), conversion,
gott coolers, and a few other threads - we bought a seven gallon gott,
fabricated something like the ascii picture I saw of the easymasher (tm),
bought the grain, hops, et. al. and brewed.  Even though we knew it was
_supposed_ to happen - conversion was just sort of amazing (I mean it
really did turn sweet), and the way the wort cleared after filtering
through the grain bed for a minute or so went just like it was supposed to.

To make a *long* afternoon short - there's a couple things we'd do
different the next time (yes there will be a next time), and with practice
it should go smoother, but most importantly, there's a carboy of beer-to-be
bubbling merrily away in the basement.  Thanks again for all the indirect
help.

ciao,
pb

- ---
pbrooks at rig.rain.com
Renaissance Information Group

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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 12:46:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Robert H. Reed" <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: Grain Brewing Questions

In response to Greg's Grain Brewing problems:

> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 93 13:12:22 edt
> From: Greg_Habel at DGC.ceo.dg.com
> Subject: My first all grain batch - a screw up.

> Well, I attempted my first all grain batch this past weekend.  Using 
> a rectangular picnic cooler with a copper t'd manifold for mashing 
> and sparging.  Picnic cooler is a 10 gallon.  Mashed 6lbs highly 
> modified pale malt and 8 oz crystal with 6 quarts of 168F water for 1 
> hour.  Did the iodine test.  The color was blackish but it turned to 
> clear when I stirred it up a bit.  Here's the part I think I screw'd 
> up.  When sparging with 3 gallons of 170F water, I had a very 
> difficult time of not disturbing the grain bed.  Most of the time it 
> was very turbulent.  Anyways, the OG ended up being 1.024!!!!

A 10 gallon mash/lauter tun is too big for such a small amount of
grain.  IMHO, you need a grain bed a minimum of six to eight inches
deep.  I have found that you will have to add sparge water very
gingerly to a grain bed less than 10 or 12 inches deep.  Many
homebrew authors have their own opinions on this subject, but I 
feel the deeper the grain bed, the better. A  5 gallon vertical drink
cooler would be more appropriate for the small mash you described.

A suggestion to avoid disturbing your grain bed is to use something
to slow down or diffuse the water going into your mash-tun: I use
a large plastic bowl with several 1/8" holes placed in the top of my  
converted 5 gal drink cooler mash/lauter tun.  Commercial brewers
typically use a sprayer head to diffuse the sparge water as it
enters the lauter tun.

> Here's my question... how important is it that the grain 
> bed is kept relatively undisturbed while sparging?  Also, will the 
> liquid turn colorless near the end of the sparge.  Mine didn't.  

It is very important to keep your grainbed undisturbed during the
sparge, otherwise you can wash a lot of draff into your boiler.
This can lead to off flavors like astringency and/or clarity
problems. There should be very little sugar in your mash at the 
conclusion of sparging; however, if you sparge until the runoff
is colorless, you may be oversparging.  There are many ways to 
endpoint your sparging operation.  I use George Fix's rule
of thumb, that is use 1.25qt water/# grain for the mash and
use the same amount of sparge water/# grain for sparging. This 
implies limiting your runoff to 2.5qts sweet wort/# grain.  Another
way to endpoint your sparge is to taste the wort periodically.
If the runoff is no longer sweet or has an astringent flavor
(like iced tea), you should terminate the runoff.  I
believe you are better off undersparging by a slight amount, 
rather than risk tannin extraction as a result of oversparging.

*********************************************************
 **** Rob Reed                                      ****
  *** IC Design Center                              ***
  *** Delco Electronics Corporation                 ***
 **** Internet: rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com          ****
*********************************************************

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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 93 12:11:08 -0500
From: "Jeff M. Michalski, MD" <michalski_jm at rophys.wustl.edu>
Subject: dry hopping question

I have a few questions regarding dry hopping.

  I've brewed a dark, rich, all grain Christmas
ale to which I plan to add 3-4 oz of Willamette pellets.  I've 
never dry hopped with pellets and the talk over the net has
begun to worry me.  I planned to rack my beer to a clean carboy
after secondary fermentation (to get it off the yeast sediment
to avoid autolysis) then add the hops and dry hop for 4-6 weeks
at 40 - 45 degrees F.  This was recommended by a homebrewer who
has since left town (ie I cannot ask him for advice regarding 
any pitfalls).  The beer I am making is dark ale with an original
gravity of 1.073 to which I want to impart a strong hop aroma.

Is this off base or can I do this without ruining 5 gallons of
a good tasting ale?
JEFF M. MICHALSKI


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Date: 8 Sep 1993 10:23:02 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer#d#john at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: My opinion on Trub

My Fellow HBDers,
Since this issue is so dear to our hearts, I felt you were entitled to my
opinion. I first read the word in Miller's book, and with my command of the
Michigan dialect of American Standard English, pronouned it TRUB with a short
U. As in: Rub a dub dub, a whole lot of Trub.  I LIKE this pronounciation, it
SOUNDS like the crap at the bottom of the barrel.  I motion that HBD adopts
this version and we get on with it.  Next time I'm in Frankenmuth, I'll raise a

stein with my friends and we'll all sing a polka, but until then, its Trub.
John Palmer 
Formerly of Michigan Tech, now stuck in Southern California.  
I want get back to the real world.

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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 93 10:49:01 PST
From: Richard B Foehringer <Richard_B_Foehringer at ccm.hf.intel.com>
Subject: RED TAIL ALE RECIPE CLONE WANTED

HELLO ALL,
DOES ANYONE OUT THERE HAVE A TRIED AND PROVEN RECIPE CLONE FOR "RED TAIL ALE"??
EITHER EXTRACT OR FULL GRAIN IS OK.....THANKS IN ADVANCE!!
DICK FOEHRINGER

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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 93 14:03 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Addtn to kegging FAQ/liquid-crystal thermometers/T-giving (spiced) ale

Al Richer did a good job summarizing the basics of kegging.  I would like
to add a bit more info.  In addition to the big o-ring and the two under
the dip tubes, there are also o-rings on the poppets INSIDE the connectors
(the part of the connector that is screwed onto the keg, over the diptube
 -- not the part of the connector that is at the end of the hose).  I
suggest changing these two poppets (I've yet to find poppets with replacable
o-rings).  Also, there are orings on the outside of the connectors (again
the part of the connectors that screw onto the keg).  The gas-side oring
has never been in contact with syrup, but a leak here would be a big waste
of CO2, so I suggest replacing both.  Finally, there is a gasket, usually a 
flat disk in the pressure relief valve.  I've found some keg styles that have
a removable gasket, but have yet to find a replacement, so I just replace the
whole relief valve if possible (some styles of lids don't have a removable
relief valve).  That gives a grand total of eight o-rings/gaskets.  Sure,
were talking about something like $10 in parts, but it beats the heck out of
5 gallons of unintentional, rootbeer-flavored Pilsener.  I've been getting
all my keg parts from Foxx Equipment Company, but I've heard recently they
are not selling retail anymore... I've just called them and they said that
they do still sell retail, but prefer to refer homebrewers to local or
mailorder HB supply shops.  Their Kansas City location number is 800-821-2254.

*********************************
Spencer writes:
>The fish tank ones don't have a wide enough range.  I found some
>reptile thermometer strips that go from about 50 to 100 (F), which is
>fine for ales.  I've alse seen ones apparently designed for brewing
>with an even better range; maybe this is what Sheaf & Vine is selling?

The ones sold by Sheaf & Vine have a range of 40F to 80F.  I think that
this range should be made a bit lower for lagers and a bit higher for
ales.  If your ambient is 75F, then I could easily see the fermentation
driving the temperature above 80F.

***********************************
Mark writes:
>Am considering a Thanksgiving-type ale that would involve the addition of
>some pumpkin pie spice (allspice, cinnamon, nutmeg, etc.).  My question(s)
>is, has anyone tried this before, (i.e., dryhopping with this stuff)? 
>Should I do this after initial fermentation has terminated?  Should I do
>this in conjunction with some aromatic hops?  If so, what kind and how
>much?  About how much of this pumpkin pie spice should be added for 5

If you add the spices directly to the brew, you will have to deal with
the particles which won't dissolve.  What I did was to soak the spices
in vodka for two days and then strain the liquid through a coffee filter.
I added this at bottling so I could adjust to taste.  I don't have my
records handy, so I can's say how much I used, but it was a lot more than
I initially anticipated.  Maybe if I had soaked the spices in the vodka
longer, more flavor would have come out of them.  I suggest making up
a bunch of your own extracts and then adding them to an already carbonated
beer of a similar recipe that you intend to use.  Once you know how much you
will need, you can go ahead and brew the batch and then either add the
spice extracts on a per-bottle basis or on a batch basis.

Al.

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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 93 14:08 CDT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: hazy beer/sparging/separating wort from hops/2-gauge regulators

Bill writes:
  1)  I've had haze problems since I started mashing my own
  grains.  Not chill haze, rather ther beer never clarifies properly.
  I know the most likely source is uncoverted starches.  However, my
  mashes all passed the iodine test (sample taken from top of mash tun).
  Is there a better conversion test?  Is there another possible source for
  this haze?

It could be starch haze from too hot a sparge water -- unconverted starch
can be liberated from the husks if the sparge water is a lot higher than
168F.  This reminds me of an interesting point I read in Beer & Brewing
Volume 8, from Dave Miller's talk.  We all kind of know this, but then
again we don't think about it this way usually.  There are three stages
in conversion: 1)gelatinization, 2)liquifaction and 3)saccharification.
All three are occurring at the same time... some starch is being geletinized,
which is then liquified by the Alpha-amylase and then saccharified by
the Beta-amylase.  Miller pointed out the danger of relying strictly on
the iodine test because there could still be quite a bit of ungelatinized
starch in the mash which would not be available to the iodine test.  This
is a common reason for low yield, in that a brewer will see a negative
iodine test and mash out, leaving a lot of ungelatinized starch.

  2)  Sparging questions:
    a) How much recirculation.  "Recirculate until runoff is clear".
    Sounds great in print.  However, for amber or darker beers this is
    not as obvious as is sounds.  In last batch I recirculated the first
    5 qts.  Is this excessive?

Miller will say you can't recirculate too much (almost) but it depends
on your setup.  If you have a large underlet (dead space under the screen)
you will have to recirculate more to set the filter bed.  Some users of
particular setups have reported an established filter bed after about a cup.
For dark beers try a smaller vessel (like a test tube) for assessing clarity.

    b) When to stop sparging.  "Don't over sparge".  I like this about as
    much as "cook until done".  The three techniques I know of are 1)
    sparge until running reach certain gravity (1.010?), 2) Sparge until
    pH is too high ( > 5.5?), 3)  Sparge until boiler is full.  Both
    Miller and Papazian give mash & sparge water quantities, but the last
    time I used these my final runnings were 1.020, seemed wasteful.

It was wasteful.  Actually 3 can be your limiting factor, but you can always
boil down some of the wort and then add more runoff.  1 is the one I use, but
if your water is alkaline, you can extract a lot of tannins as the pH rises.
If you do have alkaline water, you should acidify your sparge water to make
sure the pH does not get too high.  Actually, you need less acidification when
you start your sparge (because the grain lowers the pH of the mash) and more
as later in the sparge (as the low pH wort runs out of the lauter tun).

  3) Separating break material & spent hops from wort.  When I siphon my
    cooled wort from the boiler into the fermenter, my siphon tube clogs
    leaving 1/2 to 1 gallon of wort/trub in the boiler. I usually pour the
<snip>

I use a hop bag for my boiling hops (whole AND pellet) and it reduces the
amount of material at the bottom of the kettle significantly.  I must note
that I add 10% to Jackie Rager's formulas to compensate for the lower
utilization I get when I use the hop bag.

***************************
Tom writes:
>closet).  Now I have recently gone back to glass fermenters, 6.5 gallon 
>vice 5 gallon.  I was wondering when light struck beer begins to be a 
>problem. <snip>

You should keep the fermenter in the dark too -- your beer can be light-struck
while in the fermenter.

*******************************
Bryan writes:
>Most of the kegging setups I've seen at shops have regulators on
>the CO2 bottles with two "dials".  What do the two dials read?  Are
>two necessary?  I don't want to skimp on the regulator, but I don't
>want to buy something unnecessary.

I feel that a two-gauge regulator is unnecessary -- the low-pressure gauge
shows you the pressure after the regulator (the keg side) and the high-
pressure regulator shows you the high-pressure side (the tank side).  However,
the pressure in the tank is going to be pretty much 800psi until all the
liquid CO2 has turned to gas -- then it will drop like a rock.  No, the
only way to know how much CO2 you have left is to weigh the tank.  A 20#
tank means that it will hold 20 pounds of CO2.  Weigh the tank with the
regulator and hoses when it is empty -- write this down (the tank will be
stamped with it's empty weight, but taking off the regulator periodically
is not a good idea -- mess with the fittings as little as you can).  When
you get it back from the filler, it should weigh 20# more (or 5# if it is
a 5# tank, 10#, etc.).

Al.

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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 93 9:13:40 MDT
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: acid bottles / CF chiller cleaning / ???

Corby asks how to treat his acid bottles before using them to brew.  It reminds
me of an old rhyme (the origin I do not know):  The solution to pollution is
dilution.  The way I would treat the bottles:  just add water.  There should be
no acid left "in the glass" when the bottle is emptied and rinsed.  I might
store the thing full of water for a day, empty, fill, and store for another
day, to really rinse it well.  Other than that I wouldn't worry.

I found out something (that I already knew!) this past weekend.  Dishwashing
liquid (detergent?) is very corrosive to basic metals.  I knew this because a
few years ago I plumbed some iron gas pipe and did the standard "bubble" test
on the threaded joints.  These threads rusted within a day, although not enough
to cause any problems.  Well, I'm here to say that it works on copper even
better!

I wanted to do a great cleaning on my counterflow wort chiller before coiling
it (just to make sure there was no machine oil or anything in it).  I laid it
out flat and snaked a wire into it.  It only made it about halfway but I
remembered someone on the net recommending using dishwashing liquid to lube it.
The advantage, it was said, was that it was good for taking any oils out with
it when it was rinsed.

So I poured a good amount in the end of the copper tubing and was able to snake
the wire all the way through the tubing.  I then got distracted for a couple of
hours and when I came back to pull some twine through, there was a _large_
amount of corrosion of the copper tubing already happening.  I ended up pulling
the twine through (with cotton balls and disposable cleaning rags) many many
many times before getting the tubing really clean.  The bulk of this work was
getting that green sludge (some sort of copper oxide?) out of the tubing.  I
checked it by cutting off a couple of inches of the tubing and cutting it
lengthwise.  The tubing is now clean but I would do things differently next
time.  If I was to use dishwashing liquid, I'd make sure that I rinsed it out
within the hour.  Or, use something else.  Another lesson learned...

Patrick Weix and Chris Campanelli:  Thanks for the FAQ's!

Cheers,
norm
- -- 
Norm Pyle, Staff Engineer         Head Brewer,
Storage Technology Corporation    Pyledriver Brewery, A Non-Profit Organization
2270 South 88th Street            1500 Elmhurst Drive
Louisville, CO 80028-0211         Longmont, CO 80503-2323
(303) 673-8884                    npyle at n33.stortek.com

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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 93 13:00 CDT
From: hplabs!mcdcup!tellabs.com!don (Don Leonard)
Subject: Re: Freezers

>I know that some people use a chest freezer with some type of 
>external thermostat to control the temperature.  Has anyone
>ever burned out the compressor of a chest freezer due to using
>it in a way that it was not intended to be used?  
I'm not sure about your particular freezer but mine just has a
normal refridg. compressor in it. As long as your temp. regulation
device "short cycle" protection for the compressor, I don't think
you are straining the hardware much more than normal use. A short
cycle protection is nothing more than a timer that prevents the
compressor from turning on until it has sat for a while. The time
length is usually at least 4 min. but could be more. The reason you
need to do this is to allow the high and low pressure sides to
balance before starting the compressor. Not allowing the high side
pressure to equalize puts excessive strain on the motor inside the
compressor. 

>Does anyone 
>have any experience with older chest freezers say > 10 years
>old.  I worry that an older freezer may not have much life
>left in it, but then again I think that it may also be built a
>whole lot better than the new ones.
Yep, I've got one thats at least 15 years old and it works great.
The only problem with old fridges are that they are not really as
energy efficient as the newer ones.

> Another question, if the freezer
>is fairly full with 30-40 gallons of brew at 45-50 degrees, does
>the temperature stay fairly constant and require the compressor
>to not kick on that often or a better way to phrase that is
>Has anyone had their electric bill double or triple after
>setting up a chest freezer beer cooler?
> 
>Thanks -
>Wally
Well, I have noticed an increase in my electric bill but not the
doubling that you refer to. Currently I have a lagering/serving
fridge and a fermentation freezer. They are both at least 12 years
old.

don


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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 93 17:07:12 -0400
From: <geotex at engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Primary Fermetor question


I just started using a blowoff tube on a glass carboy for my
primary.  It works great! I have a 1" diameter tube for the
blowoff and my current batch blew out about 1 pint of liquid.

My only question is: what should I do when I rack to the 
secondary?  More specifically, now that the liquid level is 
lower than the neck, should I top it off when I rack?  

I want to minimize the air exposure, right?  But I am
NOT convinced that adding a pint of water at this stage
would have not effect.  

Please respond by e-mail, I need to rack soon.

Thanks
Alex

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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 17:35:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kieran O'Connor <koconnor at mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: Fridge Costs

Some folks have been wondering aobut fridge costs. Here's a neat way to
figure that out.

Most power companies offer free devices (you borrow, but can't keep) which
will measure power consumption. The one I got is for educators (IM a
teacher) and they mail it to you and you mail it bacj when done. The have
other stuff too--all sorts of Science realted gizmos. The power company
here that does it is NY State Electric and Gas (a public utility), but
they sent it to me where I work which is not even in their service area.

You put in the cost of your electricity/KW
hour, then plug the fridge into it.  It runs like a meter, but only when
power is drawn through it, so its accurate for our usage.

i used it once when it was set to 60--and I think it was like 3$/month--at
$.11/KW/hour cost.

Good luck.


Kieran O'Connor

E-Mail Address: koconnor at mailbox.syr.edu
Syracuse, N.Y. USA




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Date: Wed, 08 Sep 93 16:05:33 -0700
From: Drew Lynch <drew at chronologic.com>
Subject: Re: regulator question 

  The dial closest to the CO2 tank measures tank pressure, the other
measures dispensing pressure. I have yet to empty my first 20lb
cyinder, but I understand that for CO2, the first gauge moves very
little if at all, until the tank is empty, then it drops like a stone.
The best way to determine the remaining CO2 is to weigh the tank, and
then subtract the tare (sp?) weight stamped into the metal near the
neck of the tank.  Only the dispensing gauge is necesary.

			      Drew Lynch
		Chronologic Simulation, Los Altos, Ca.
			  (415)965-3312 x18
			 drew at chronologic.com


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Date: 	Wed, 8 Sep 1993 16:28:26 -0400
From: Bill Flowers <waflowers at qnx.com>
Subject: Re: Hard, high pH water treatment for new masher (HBD #1205)

Almost a month ago I posted the original message requesting help. 
This is a long overdue "thank you" to all those who responded.  Armed
with your advice and a detailed lab report I was finally able to make
sense of what Miller was saying.  Unfortunately I haven't had an
opportunity to apply what I've learned yet (too busy delivering on a
contract), but over the next week I'll make up for it with 3 batches
of beer I plan to start.  :-)

Once again, thanks to all.
- ---
W.A. (Bill) Flowers                email: waflowers at qnx.com
QNX Software Systems, Ltd.         QUICS: bill     (613) 591-0934 (data)
(613) 591-0931 (voice)             mail:  175 Terrence Matthews
(613) 591-3579 (fax)                      Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8

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Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 18:25:19 -0600 (CDT)
From: jim at n5ial.mythical.com (Jim Graham)
Subject: questions on making mead / suggestion re: exploding carboy

First, a couple of questions regarding making mead.  Then, a suggestion for
the guy who had the carboy explode in the closet.

After reading Papazian's comments on how good the stuff is, I'd like to try
it out.  Is brewing mead any different from brewing beer in a single-stage
fermenter (I don't even own a carboy)?  Is it basically going to be the
normal approximately 7 days in the fermenter and then 15 days (minimum)
aging in bottles?  If not, how long should I expect it to take to
ferment/age out?

Also, how much is it likely to cost to brew?  Is Sam's Wholesale Club most
likely to be the best (i.e., cheapest) source for the honey?  Or is there
a less-expensive source?

Is mead one of those things that, like champagne, is typically only for
certain occasions?  Or is it something that most people would just sit down
and enjoy as they would any other homebrew?  Does this matter?  Do I care?
Who knows.....

I'm thinking about using the first mead recipe in TNCJoHB, which he calls
``Antipodal Mead (Traditional)''.  Does anyone have any suggestions for a
mead that might be a better one to start with?  Or is this a good start?

Btw, adding fruit isn't really much of an option right now, mainly for cost
reasons (I'd have to buy the carboy as a secondary fermenter, plus buy the
fresh fruit at a fruit stand or farmer's market somewhere, etc.).  However,
I'm certainly open for suggestions along this line, too---if nothing else,
for future reference.

> From: TAN1%SysEng%DCPP at cts27.comp.pge.com
> Subject:  Light struck beer (TAN1)

> I have 
> been relagated to brewing outdoors since several years back I had a glass 
> carboy explode in my bedroom closet (The saddest day of my life - superbowl 
> stout exploded, taking out the carpet and most of the clothes in the 
> closet).

Just a suggestion---why not wrap the carboy (whether it's outside or in
your closet) in a blanket or something similar?  When it's inside, it would
at least keep the beer limited to making a mess on the floor, as opposed to
trashing the floor, clothes, ceiling, etc....  When it's outside, it would
help prevent the problem of exposure to light.  Whether it's inside or
outside, it would make it far less likely for someone to be hurt (or worse)
by shrapnel.....

I had a beer bottle explode once, and from that day on, I keep all beer
bottles in either a case-box, in a cabinet, or under some sort of towel,
blanket, etc., from the day the bottle is capped until it goes in the
fridge.  If another one explodes, I don't plan on cleaning up glass from
all over the apartment (the one that blew sent glass *EVERYWHERE*---I'm
just glad I wasn't home).

Anyways, that's it for today (or probably next week, by the time this gets
posted to the digest).  Later,
   --jim

- --
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1222, 09/09/93