HOMEBREW Digest #1231 Wed 22 September 1993

Digest #1230 Digest #1232

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Mailing Brew (Rich Ryan)
  rebottling (Montgomery_John)
  someone asks about cardamom (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570)
  slowing fermentation (Peter OConnor)
  Brewpubs/Micro's ("Tom Stolfi")
  Re: Hop Harvest '93 & Beer of the month club ("Pamela J. Day 7560")
  Fusel Alcohols; Lipids (George J Fix)
  re Brewpubs in Utah (Mark Taratoot)
  Hops in San Francisco Canyon NM (seiferth)
  yeast & oxidation (dassemiri)
  Competition Announcement (Jack Baty)
  Grain at mash / DME prime /Recirculate (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
  Re:  fermenting with reckless abandon (korz)
  Silver Solder on wort boilers (Wayde Nie)
  Silver Solder on wort boilers (Wayde Nie)
  Fermenting with wild abandon (Aaron Morris)
  cheap beer contest (Paul Boor)
  Re: CO2 Connection Questions (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Cranberry Beer (Mr. Raytrace)
  cherry beer (Beth Bradley)
  Samuel Smith's Pale Ale & Oatmeal Stout (Jim Graham)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 07:47:50 -0400 From: Rich Ryan <ryancr at install4.swin.oasis.gtegsc.com> Subject: Mailing Brew I recently received an entry form for an AHA sponsored homebrew event. Since the event is located miles away I will have to mail the bottles. A friend of mine said the US Postal Service has regulations forbidding this. He said that some of the private carriers may or may not have similar restrictions. Can anyone tell me definititvely what the regulations are? If this has already been discussed before private emails are fine. Rich Ryan GTE Chantilly, VA ryancr at swin.oasis.gtegsc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 08:25:00 CST From: Montgomery_John at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil Subject: rebottling I have recently bottled (several weeks ago) an entire five gallon batch of Kolsch in Grolsch bottles (Kolsch in Grolsch ?...Hey, I'm a poet and don't know it but my feet show it cuz they're Longfellows :) ). Anyway, since then, I found that a local brewpub is sponsoring an Oktoberfest/Homebrew competition and I would really like to enter this beer for critique. Those who have submitted beers in competitions now see my dilemma - I can't enter the beer in a Grolsch bottle. So I'm considering rebottling a number of them in the required brown 12 oz. longnecks. What is the collective wisdom on this? Should I "supercool" the beer and decant it very slowly into the longnecks so as not to disturb the brew?...Will I lose the carbonation? Anybody ever done anything like this? Thanks, john <montgomery_john at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil> Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1993 09:06:12 -0500 (CDT) From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570) Subject: someone asks about cardamom The dictionary describes cardamom thusly: "A tropical Asiatic perennial plant, Elettaria cardamomum, having large, hairy leaves and capsular fruit, the seeds of which are used as a condiment and medicine." Cardamom is used as a seasoning in Asian cooking, especially Indian cooking. Specialty food stores carry cardamom seeds, while your favorite grocery store has crushed cardamom in the spice section. When fresh, cardamom has (to me) a lemon-citrus flavor note. I've used it as a "secret" ingredient in small amounts in wit and strong Belgian ale recipes. While there are lots of ways to add spices, what has worked for me is adding some in the last 10 minutes of the boil. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 10:55:39 EDT From: poconnor at lager.tn.cornell.edu (Peter OConnor) Subject: slowing fermentation Eugene asks how to slow down an unruly fermentation. How about cooling down the fermenting vessel. It usually slows fermentation without changing the flavor. It will mean longer fermentation times. -Pete Return to table of contents
Date: 21 Sep 1993 09:59:09 GMT From: "Tom Stolfi" <WAUTS at cwemail.ceco.com> Subject: Brewpubs/Micro's From: Tom Stolfi WAUTS - CWE1IIN To: Open-Addressing Application for Internet Acc INLINE - CWEMAIL Subject: Brewpubs/Micro's If anyone knows of any Brewpubs/Micro's in the Morgantown,West Virginia or Albuquerque, New Mexico area please forward the info to me via private email at wauts at cwemail.ceco.com. Thanks in advance. Tom Stolfi wauts at cwemail.ceco.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1993 11:14:00 EST From: "Pamela J. Day 7560" <DAY at A1.TCH.HARVARD.EDU> Subject: Re: Hop Harvest '93 & Beer of the month club I planted my risomes (2 Cascade, 2 Chinook & 1 willamette) in late April. I live about 40 miles northeast of Boston on the NH border, so we have a decent growing season. My Chinook did great, they grew about 15 up the side of my house and I got a sandwich bag full of hops. The cascade grew well too, about 12 feet, but didn't produce any hops. The Willamette, was a disappointment, it never came up. It sent out roots,(I dug it up to check on it) but it never sent any vines. I was reassured by the people I got them from that it will do something next year, but I have my doubts. Has anyone else had a similar experience? Regarding Beer of the Month Club, I have a subscription to one called Beer Across America, for details e-mail direct, Day at a1.tch.harvard.edu Cheers! P. Day Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 09:22:41 -0500 From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix) Subject: Fusel Alcohols; Lipids Greetings one and all! The article I wrote on fusel alcohols that appeared in the last issue of Zymurgy had the following typographical errors: (1) The last part of the second paragraph on page 32 was truncated. It should read as follows: " ...widespread agreement about the implications that brewing procedures and brewing materials have on fusel alcohol levels. Some of the most important of these points will be discussed in this article." (2) The sentence on page 33 stating that aromatic alcohols were volatile should read " These are also non-volatile, and are characterized by the presence of aromatic rings." (3) I have no idea where the crazy structure shown at the bottom of page 33 (first column) came from. It is certainly not Tyrsol. The correct structure can be found on page 64 of my book on brewing science. I have received a lot of private e-mail concerning the Jones/Millspaw article that appeared in Zymurgy, and in particular about the general question of "lipid enhancement". It is well known that lipids can be used by yeast as a replacement for O2. Turbid wort is rich in lipids, and if this is carried over to the fermenter, there is less neeed to aerate the wort before pitching. This has been exploited by high gravity brewers (primarily in the the UK) to lessen the O2 demand of yeast used to ferment worts with OEs of order 18 P (1.074). My problem with this practice comes from my experience that fatty acids derived from trub are major players in beer staling. This may not be a major issue with homebrew that is afforded pristine care. However, it could be an issue for beer that is shipped (to competitions or friends), and is subject to mechanical and/or thermal abuse. In any case, it appears from my own brewing experiences that failure to properly clarify wort can be a destabilizing factor for most beers. George Fix Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1993 10:34:10 -0600 (MDT) From: Mark Taratoot <SLNDW at cc.usu.edu> Subject: re Brewpubs in Utah Mike ONeil asked about brewpubs in Utah and Arizona. There are three brewpubs that I know of in Utah. Squatters in Salt Lake City, Eddie McStiffs in Moab, and Ebenezers in Ogden. Squatters is the oldest, and they produce some fine offerings. Last time I was in SLC, they had cask conditioned real ale. The stout is OK. The pale ale is lacking something, but after all, this is a 3.2% (control) state and I am sure most of their customers do not like lots and lots of beer flavor. Ebenezers is housed in a beautiful structure in Ogden. The beer is too cold, and it does not have much beer flavor. They usually have 4 offerings, one of which is a seasonal brew. Eddie McStiffs has a tasty stout. I was not impressed with their pale. I guess Utah is not a good place to get pale ale, unless you make your own. Hope this helps. -toot Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 10:49:47 MDT From: seiferth at cs.unm.edu Subject: Hops in San Francisco Canyon NM Last year there were a number of people who had visited the canyon and reported wild hops there. Has anyone returned this year? I'd like to go pick some but don't want to make the 5 hour drive unless it will bear some "fruit". Justin seiferth at lyra.plk.af.mil Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 93 21:27:59 EDT From: dassemiri at aol.com Subject: yeast & oxidation I've been a lurker since I subscribed to this digest, and have enjoyed the letters and information a great deal. Here's my question: Has anyone tried to culture the yeast from Double Diamond? Is it used purely for conditioning, or is this the yeast used for the actual fermentation? Also: I've only made one excursion away from extract brews, using a partial mash, and I hope to go further in this direction. Can anyone explain the dangers of oxidation DURING mashing? I thought it was only a concern after fermentation began, but Miller's book leads me to beleive that this is not the case. Thanks and, to all those migratory folks from *P-land... pros't! steveinmassachusetts Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1993 13:15:05 -0500 (CDT) From: jack at wubios.wustl.edu (Jack Baty) Subject: Competition Announcement The annual St. Louis Brews Happy Holidays Homebrew Competition will take place on 18 December. Entry deadline is 22 November. This is an AHA-sanctioned competition, ASCII files containing competition rules (comprule.txt), entry form (compform.txt), and bottle entry forms (bottle.txt) are available via anonymous ftp from the /pub subdirectory of sirronald.wustl.edu (IP Number: If you can't use anonymous ftp you can request the files from jack at wubios.wustl.edu. Additional judges are always welcome. We will have Beds for Brewers available. - -- Jack Baty jack at wubios.wustl.edu Division of Biostatistics Washington University Medical School St. Louis If you don't think too good then don't think too much. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 09:19:08 EDT From: Lee=A.=Menegoni at nectech.com Subject: Grain at mash / DME prime /Recirculate I agree with Al K's comments on DME priming. Unless one boils it for a half hour or so and then chills you will get potential haze. The small amount of corn sugar used to prime will not cause off flavors. Since I bottle from keg secondaries and there is a fair amount of CO2 in the brew already I use 1/3 cup per keg with my ales. I don't provide additional carbonation to lagers with sugar I force carbonated them, I do so because it took me so long to brew (decoction) and ferment/lager I am concerned I may produce off aromas. Grain at mash out: For dark brews I add grains at mash out it makes the iodine test easier to read. For lighter colored brews I mash all the grain. When I sparged my recent brew I used Rob Thomas suggetion of testing for starch. When the liquid tested negative I declared this to be "clear" and began collecing wort even though the run off was some what opaque. Does the matter in suspension contain lipids mentioned in a previous post? Is clear another of those vague terms that we find in brewing references? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 13:32 CDT From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: Re: fermenting with reckless abandon Eugene writes: > I am having a problem with a current all-extract wheat beer I'm >making. I have made this same recipe several times, but this is only the >second time I have used a liquid yeast (Wyeast Bavarian Wheat). The >problem is that it's fermenting so wildly, that it blows the sanitizing >solutions out of my one-way valve and then fills the valve with foam. The >other time I used this yeast, it fermented quickly, but not so violently. >I'm still using the cave-man equipment of a single stage fermenter made out >of high grade plastic. My question is "Is there a way to slow down the >fermentation a bit?". If not, is there a way I can clear out some of the >foam while minimizing the risk of polluting my beer? The way to slow down your fermentation is to lower the temperature -- if this is possible with your fermentation room. If you are fermenting in the basement, if you patiently search around the basement with a thermometer, you can usually find a cooler corner. Greg Lawrence, a fellow local homebrewer, was having problems with too warm a fermenation room. His heat plant was in there, plus the dryer, plus a refridgerator, plus the beer itself was making a lot of heat. He solved the problem by building a sort of foam insulation box, which insulates his fermenters from the room -- the three uninsulated sides of the box are the cement floor and two cement walls of the foundation. This effectively reduced the temp a good 10 degrees (if I recall correctly). Another method for fermenting in a cool place if you don't have a cellar is to ferment outdoors in an insulated box with a thermostatically controlled heater in there -- be careful to not burn anything down! Some have used an old refridgerator with a light bulb for the heat, but recall the light damage that can result, so you'll have to figure out a way to get the heat out of the bulb without the light. Some kind of sheetmetal baffle system painted with flat black engine (heat resistant) paint, might be the solution. My initial thought was (no, not the blowoff method, Norm) to suggest a larger fermenter, but you did mention that you were having this problem specifically with a *WHEAT* beer. I suspect that the fact that wheat malt is higher in the proteins that give good head retention is why the kraeusen may be lasting so long as to come out through the airlock hole. If, indeed this is why you are having this problem, perhaps even a lower fermentation temp may not help. I used to be a strong supporter of the blowoff method, but I've begun to have my doubts. My doubts began when I brewed my 1120 OG Lithuanian Imperial Stout. The head retention on this beer's kraeusen was so good that not only did the fermenter blowoff into the 1-gallon blowoff vessel (a plastic milk jug), but the kraeusen of the blowoff vessel foamed all over the place! I cleaned up, dumped the blowoff vessel, added fresh water and let it finish. When I went to bottle the beer, I found some blowoff behind the fermenter that had dried like a piece of styrofoam! This is when I first began to suspect that perhaps head-retaining proteins were being lost in the blowoff. I plan to test this theory. Despite this, if you cannot contain your kraeusen, I suggest that attaching a hose (the wider diameter the better -- my blowoff hoses are 1" ID"!) and putting the "out-end" into a bucket or jug partially filled with water is safter than skimming or the procedure you described in your post. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1993 14:57:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayde Nie <u9106857 at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca> Subject: Silver Solder on wort boilers Hi All, What is the collective net wisdom on using silver solder to install the fittings into to base of a converted keg style boiler. I would think that soldering would be less of an undertaking than paying someone to weld SS. \\\ (o o) - ---------------------------------ooO--(*)--Ooo-------------------------------- \|||/ | Wayde Nie, u9106857 at McMail.CIS.McMaster.CA <o.O> bleah! | ( v ) snort! | "I stayed up all night playing poker with Tarot cards... --"-"-- | I got a full house and four people died!" *Bill The Owl* | Steven Wright - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1993 14:57:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayde Nie <u9106857 at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca> Subject: Silver Solder on wort boilers Hi All, What is the collective net wisdom on using silver solder to install the fittings into to base of a converted keg style boiler. I would think that soldering would be less of an undertaking than paying someone to weld SS. \\\ (o o) - ---------------------------------ooO--(*)--Ooo-------------------------------- \|||/ | Wayde Nie, u9106857 at McMail.CIS.McMaster.CA <o.O> bleah! | ( v ) snort! | "I stayed up all night playing poker with Tarot cards... --"-"-- | I got a full house and four people died!" *Bill The Owl* | Steven Wright - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 15:24:31 EDT From: Aaron Morris <SYSAM at ALBANY.ALBANY.EDU> Subject: Fermenting with wild abandon esonn1 at cc.swarthmore.edu queries: > ... "Is there a way to slow down the > fermentation a bit?". If not, is there a way I can clear out some of the > foam while minimizing the risk of polluting my beer?.... Eugene, You don't want to slow down your fermentation. You should use different equipment. Rather than using a fermentation valve, substitute a stopper with a hose that runs into a bottle of H2O with a few campden tablets disolved in it. The foam that is clogging your fermentation valve will pass thorugh the tubing into the jar of water/campden solution. The system will be a closed system and will keep any airborne nasties out of your brew. When the primary fermentation has settled down, remove the stopper and replace it with a fermentation valve. I routinely use such a set up when brewing mead (which has a rather violent primary fermentation _________ //-------\\ _||||_ || / || \ || /________\ || | | || | | || | BREW | /||\ | | |-||-| | | |H2O | |________| |____| Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1993 15:47:55 -0600 From: Paul Boor <PBOOR at beach.utmb.edu> Subject: cheap beer contest My nomination for cheap beer goes to Goebel's (tm) lager purchased here in Galveston, TX at $3.99 for a twelve pak. It's great stuff, but how it ever made it down here to our subtropical island from Detroit MI, I haven't the foggiest. I had read about "lawnmower beer" in the HBD, but when I put this stuff in my lawnmower, the thing conked out. I like drinking it better anyway pboor Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 15:02:20 PDT From: megatek!hollen at uunet.UU.NET (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: Re: CO2 Connection Questions >>>>> "Chris" == Chris Cook <COOK at CDHF2.GSFC.NASA.GOV> writes: Chris> A question about kegging and counter-pressure bottle fillers. Chris> How do people change fittings to CO2 systems? Chris> I have one CO2 tank that I use for everything. That means: Chris> 1) Storing beer. 2) Serving beer at group events. Chris> 3) Counter-pressure bottle filling. Chris> The only way I can connect and disconnect this stuff is to get Chris> the wrenches out, and I worry about the wear and tear for the Chris> connections and nylon bushings (which I usually drop at least Chris> once). What nylon bushings? None of the flare fittings I have have any nylon bushings and unless you are a gorilla on your wrenches, you should have no trouble with repeated coupling/uncoupling of flare fittings. Chris> Is there an easier way to make changes? Are there Chris> quick-disconnects for the line, or some such? How do other Chris> people work with CP fillers? Sure, you could use any number of different disconnects, only they will cost you in the range of $15 to $20 per part at wholesale prices. I just get out the wrenches every time I want to use the CP filler. No hassle at all. You could also get a distribution block which is a brass block with 6 threaded holes, one input and five output with check valves and ball valves. Hook up to your heart's content any combination of things. Dion Hollenbeck (619)455-5590x2814 Email: hollen at megatek.com Senior Software Engineer megatek!hollen at uunet.uu.net Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California ucsd!megatek!hollen Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 17:31:24 PDT From: rkaye at denali.csc.calpoly.edu (Mr. Raytrace) Subject: Cranberry Beer The holiday season will soon be upon us and it is time to brew up some ales for Xmas time. I'd like to try my hand at brewing a beer that uses cranberries. I was a little bit disappointed by Sam Adams' Cranberry Lambic last year -- I'd like something with more cranberry bang. Does anyone have a good recipe for a cranberry ale laying around? Or, better yet, just some tips on how to use cranberries in the brewing process. I'm aware of the pectin problem; I'm more curious of what quantities of cranberries should be used. Also, is it ok to let the cranberries steep in the wort after the wort is done boiling?? -ruaok Robert Kaye -- rkaye at denali.calpoly.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 21:19:36 EDT From: ae877 at freenet.buffalo.edu (Beth Bradley) Subject: cherry beer Hi, I'm new to the list(and really enjoying it) but not too new to homebrewing. I have a nice can of Kangabroo Lager and about 4 cups of homemade cherry juice(also some homegrown cascade hops). I was going to put the cherry juice in at the beginning of the boil along with everything else but after reding the postings about fruit additves to beer I'm totally confused. Now I'm thinking of adding the juice right at the end just before bottling. I would appreciate any suggestions. - -- WHILE WE HAVE PRISONS IT MATTERS LITTLE WHICH OF US OCCUPIES THE CELLS. -G.B.S. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1993 20:04:24 -0600 (CDT) From: jim at n5ial.mythical.com (Jim Graham) Subject: Samuel Smith's Pale Ale & Oatmeal Stout Note the Reply-To address listed in my .signature---please direct replies to me as n5ial!jim at gagme.chi.il.us. This is temporary, but for the next couple of weeks, it's very important. I'd set the actual Reply-To field, but in a digest, it would never appear anyways..... Anyways, I was wondering if anyone had a recipe (extract or extract plus specialty grain) for a clone of either Samuel Smith's Old Brewery Pale Ale or Samuel Smith's Old Brewery Oatmeal Stout. Alternatively, does anyone have a recipe for a good oatmeal stout? One sip from the Samuel Smith's oatmeal stout had me sold on this wonderful variant.... (I've always been a fan of the Samuel Smith's Pale Ale...at least, I have been for about 9--10 years or so.) I must say, even though I've had some pretty good stout in the past, the oatmeal stout beats all of the others, hands down. Oh, I should add this bit---I don't have a carboy. I have a single-stage fermenter, and zero money to buy a carboy. If there is any way at all to brew either variety in a single-stage process, please gear any responses in that direction. Otherwise, I'm still interested, if nothing else, for future reference. Thanks, --jim - -- #include <std_disclaimer.h> 73 DE N5IAL (/4) - -------------------------< Running Linux 0.99 PL10 >-------------------------- *** E-mail to me from now until roughly 2 Oct.: n5ial!jim at gagme.chi.il.us *** AMATEUR RADIO: (packet station temporarily offline) AMTOR SELCAL: NIAL internet: jim at n5ial.mythical.com | j.graham at ieee.org ICBM: 30.23N 86.32W - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ E-mail me for information about KAMterm (host mode for Kantronics TNCs). Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1231, 09/22/93