FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Grainmill information request (BOKENKAM)
  CHERRY PORTER (Elaine Boris)
  Temperature Adjustments (Kieran O'Connor)
  Silver soldering (Peter OConnor)
  DD yeast/mash oxidation/blowoff (npyle)
  Sam Smith Hops (Michael Inglis)
  thanks/haze/oldish starter(?)/easymasher (David Atkins)
  Blowoff and Silver Solder Comments.... (STBLEZA)
  partial-mash question(s) (Jonathan G Knight)
  Beer in Telluride? (Lance Encell)
  re malt v dextrose (Chip Hitchcock)
  Have Brew Keg - What Now? (Cecil Clontz)
  kegging/infection(?) question (David Allison 225-5764)
  Easy Masher (Paul Boor)
  cloning Samuel Smith beers (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
  Can the liquid loss in a blow off setup be minimized? (lyons)
  fermentation substrate and flavor... (One Lain Meyer)
  RE: Mailing Brew ("DEV::SJK")
  Zymurgy and Tix to GABF ("Dennis Lewis" )
  soldering keg fittings (Chuck Wettergreen)
  wierd yeast activity (Chuck Wettergreen)
  St. Pat's of Texas (sbsgrad)
  Brazing vs Silver-soldering vs TIG welding (Kelly Jones)
  Barley diseases (MURRAYT)
  Interactive CD-ROM (Marty Hicks)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 04:55:15 CDT
From: BOKENKAM at ucs.indiana.edu
Subject: Grainmill information request

I am covered with shame, embarrassment, and residue.  The
richness of HBD overwhelms me and, having other interests, I
plead guilty to precipitate zapping.  Now, I find that my
grainmill has gone south (where I foolishly sent all that HBD
wisdom) and I am in need.  I seem to remember that a new
grainmill was announced, but heeded not.  Now I quiver to know,
being desirous of fine crush (almost powderlike, with intact
husks) and minimal gelt requirements.   Gods, do not tell me that
there is a FAQ-file; do not overwhelm me with penitential test
results, but respond, I beseech thee, to
Bokenkam at ucs.indiana.edu.
 
Yr. humble svt.  S. Bokenkamp

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Date:         Wed, 22 Sep 93 09:15:22 EDT
From: Elaine Boris <EBORIS at UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
Subject:      CHERRY PORTER

Greetings & Happy Equinox,

Back in July I had asked about making a half batch of cherry stout
in my 7 gal secondary.   I want to thank, belatedly, everyone for
their input and suggestions.  They encouraged me to give it a try.
I ended up making more of a porter than a stout and I was very
pleased with the sample I had this weekend.  The only problem is
that the carbonation is low, and no head to the beer.  There is
enough so that you wouldn't call it flat and it stays carbonated
even with a slow sipper like myself.

I used cherry extract (w/pits, unpasteurized) because several HBDers
suggested it and also the available cherries looked unwholesome.  I
started with 8 oz that I added to the primary fermenter, but when
I racked to the secondary and sampled a little, it had no cherry
flavor so I added 8oz more.  Now the cherry flavor is there but subtle.

INDEPENDENCE CHERRY PORTER                                          7/05/93
4 GALS                                                     BOTTLED  7/18/93
1     LB    EXTRA DARK DME ( -1 CUP FOR PRIMING)
1     CAN   MUNTON & FISON AMBER HOPPED MALT EXTRACT (3.3LB CAN)
1     LB    CRYSTAL MALT (CRUSHED)
2     CUPS  CHOCOLATE GRAIN MALT (CRUSHED)
1     CUPS  BLACK PATENT GRAIN MALT (CRUSHED)
1     IN    BREWING LICORICE
 .5    TSP   SALT
 .5    TSP   CALSIUM CARB
2     TSP   GYPSUM
1     OZ    NORTHERN BREWERS HOPS PELLETS    60 MIN BOIL
 .5    OZ    NORTHERN BREWERS HOPS PELLETS    30 MIN BOIL
 .5    OZ    KENT GOLDING HOPS PELLETS         5 MIN BOIL
1     PKT   WHITBREAD LIQUID ALE YEAST (WYEAST 1098)
8     0Z    CHERRY EXTRACT
8     OZ    CHERRY EXTRACT - ADDED AFTER RACKED TO SECONDARY FERMENTER
1     CUP  DME FOR PRIMING

STARTING SG . . . . .1.050    (BEFORE EXTRA CHERRY EXTRACT WAS ADDED)
  ENDING SG . . . . .1.022    (OOPS - AFTER PRIMING SUGAR WAS ADDED)

I steeped the crushed grains 45 min in 150 degree water and then sparged
with warm water into my brew kettle.  I had a vigorous fermantation going
about 5 hours (that evening when I checked) later. I racked to the glass
secondary after about 4 days, bubbling had slowed but not stopped and then
bottled about 9 days after that.

Elaine Boris                                  Student Information Systems
Computer Services Specialist                  University of Georgia
706 542-0484                                  Athens  Georgia

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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 09:43:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kieran O'Connor <koconnor at mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: Temperature Adjustments

Awhile back I read Miller's book--and finally took one of his pieces of 
advice to heart.  I checked the calibration of both my Thermometers and 
my hydrometer.

As it turned out--my hydrometer is ok--and my floating thermometer is.  
But my bi-metal probe type thermometer was off by 4 degrees F. It has a 
locking nut on it--so I boiled it in distilled water and calibrated it. 
At the school I work in--in Cortland NY--we are at 1000 ft elevation, so 
my science teacher friend said to calibrate it to 98C for boiling--given 
the altitude.

now my question in--if the temps we use, say for mashing (148-158F) need 
to be somewhat accurate--do we need to make adjustments across the board? 
Shoudl i now lower my mash temps 4 degrees F when I brew in Cortland?

It seems that if I did not--the if I were mashing at 154--the real temp 
would be 158F--a significant difference.

Any thoughts?

Kieran O'Connor

E-Mail Address: koconnor at mailbox.syr.edu
Syracuse, N.Y. USA




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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 09:57:24 EDT
From: poconnor at lager.tn.cornell.edu (Peter OConnor)
Subject: Silver soldering

Hi Brewers,

Wayde Nie asks about using silver solder on a SS wort boiler.  

One problem that I see is that silver solder typically doesn't wet 
Stainless steel.  You might be able to find some that specifically 
does work on SS, but you should be careful to avoid leaded solders and
solders that melt at low temperatures.  You dont want that seal coming
loose in the middle of a boil. 8-).  -Pete

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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 8:49:39 MDT
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: DD yeast/mash oxidation/blowoff

steveinmass asks about borrowing some yeast from Double Diamond bottles.  I had
a DD last night and didn't notice any yeast.  Shortly after I emptied the
bottle my wife poured hot frying oil in it, so if they were there they died a
horrible screaming death.  May we have a moment of silence...
 ...
I also wasn't too impressed with the pale ale but that's a different story.  Am
I the only one who's noticed this problem with ales from the UK:  they are
overcarbonated!  I'm talking about the common UK ales like DD, Bass, and
Watney's.  Now I know they carbonate them more for the US market but this is
ridiculous.  I like to be able to drink more than one sip between burps and
well, I can't with these beers.  It also doesn't help the taste any.  I much
prefer a good American pale ale these days; the imports can't touch 'em, at
least not the imports that I get (slow dock, slow boat, slow dock, slow
warehouse, slow truck/train, etc. etc.).  Of course, though I love it, SNPA is
overcarbonated IMHO, too.
 ...
Oxidation during the mash is a potential problem area, contrary to old wisdom.
When I first got into brewing, I read that hop constituents were the cause of
oxidation reactions which in turn caused stability problems.  Now, it is
apparent that malt constituents contribute to this as well.  Without getting
into details of which I know little, it will suffice to say that treating a hot
mash the same way you treat hot wort is wise (i.e. no splashing, dumping, etc.).
 ...
Al, I plan to brew a(nother) pale ale in a couple of weeks, and I would
consider trying a blowoff/non-blowoff test with it.  I could conceivably make
about a 8 gallon batch, putting 5 in my 5 gallon carboy (blowoff) and 3 in my 7
gallon carboy (non-blowoff).  The problem with this is that I couldn't then do
a secondary, which is standard at my brewery.  Any suggestions?  Am I wasting
my time?
- -- 
Norm Pyle, Staff Engineer         Head Brewer,
Storage Technology Corporation    Pyledriver Brewery, A Non-Profit Organization
2270 South 88th Street            1500 Elmhurst Drive
Louisville, CO 80028-0211         Longmont, CO 80503-2323
(303) 673-8884                    npyle at n33.stortek.com

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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 07:56:39 PDT
From: mri10 at mfg.amdahl.com (Michael Inglis)
Subject: Sam Smith Hops

Question:  Does anyone know what hop variety is used in Samual Smiths 
Pale Ale for flavor/aroma?  I think it may be the same as is used in 
Beck's.  Saaz perhaps?  Email is fine for answers.  Thanks.


Mike Inglis
mri10 at charon.amdahl.com

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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 10:06 CDT
From: David Atkins <ATKINS at macc.wisc.edu>
Subject: thanks/haze/oldish starter(?)/easymasher

Hello all,
 
Thanks to all those folks providing advice on converting a nat. gas stove to LP.
I was fortunate to receive a slew of response will good suggestions and care for
and my apartments well-being.
 
And now for some more advice:
I may have a haze in my extract/specialty grain beer.  It was several days ago
when I drew a sample to F.G. and taste.  The recipe is a modification of a NCJ
porter (amber extract with crushed crystal, choc, black, and toasted malts).
 
When we bottle tonight and the beer's clear there will be know worries, but FMI,
for my information, could I inflict a starch or protein haze with specialty
malts?  I had pleasing hot and cold breaks.  If find off flavors w/ haze I know
the verdict.
 
Speaking of beer, I was unable to brew this past weekend, leaving 2 cups of
yeast lab american ale 'starting' in a wine bottle.  Has anyone or knows of
anyone who has had a starter starting for a week.  Can I salvage it by adding
what I already have to a couple more cups of sterile wort?  Is it too late to
put the bottle in 'fridge to keep?  An air lock has been afixed since the get go
so sanitation may not be an issue.
 
Speaking of starters, sometime before the end of this decade, I hope to be
competent enough for all-graining.  I haven't gotten any info on the mysterious
easymasher.  If anyone could give me some info. on the item, I'd be grateful (as
in thanks, definitely not dead)
 
Thanks,
David
atkins at macc.wisc.edu

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Date: 22 Sep 1993 11:25:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: STBLEZA at grove.iup.edu
Subject: Blowoff and Silver Solder Comments....

 
Eugene <esonn1 at cc.swarthmore.edu> wrote:
>        I am having a problem with a current all-extract wheat beer I'm
>making.  I have made this same recipe several times, but this is only the
>second time I have used a liquid yeast (Wyeast Bavarian Wheat).  The
>problem is that it's fermenting so wildly, that it blows the sanitizing
>solutions out of my one-way valve and then fills the valve with foam.  The

As far as the blowoff goes, you could attach a large, sanitized balloon to the
top of your carbouy.  Remember to attach it well (I use Duct Tape), or it will
re-distribute the foam ALL OVER THE ROOM.  Also, it should be large so that it
won't burst (mine are about a foot long un-inflated).  This allows the blowoff
to not be lost, so you keep all of the material it contains (good or bad) while
not letting any nasties in.  Once the foam has gone down, I replace the
balloon with a fermentation lock.  BTW, a large mouthed fermentor won't work
with the balloon since you can't get the balloon over the mouth.  Also, don't
use condoms, they have lubricants and poisons in them.  Hope this helps.

- ------------------------------
 
Wayde Nie <u9106857 at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca> wrote:
 
>Hi All,
>        What is the collective net wisdom on using silver solder to
>install the fittings into to base of a converted keg style boiler. I
>would think that soldering would be less of an undertaking than
>paying someone to weld SS.

Most silver solders contain more than 40 percent LEAD.  Since we are talking
about food related equipment (at least I assume you intend on drinking your
homebrewed beer), using lead bearing solder does not seem like a good idea.
There are, however, silver solders that don't contain lead, so be certain to
check carefully the solder you use.  Also, all of the non-lead solders that
I've personally dealt with require special equipment and techniques to use them
effectively (this has been mostly Sterling Silver wire used by audiophile
freinds), and are designed for very low resistance electrical components, not
structurial/mechanical support as you intend, so I don't know if it will hold
well.  I have heard of non-silver, non-lead solders designed for food related
and cooking equipment, but I have no idea where to get such things, or how to
use them even if I had them...

- ------------------------------
Both comments appeared in: HOMEBREW Digest #1231, 09/22/93


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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 11:36:18 -0500 (cdt)
From: Jonathan G Knight <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: partial-mash question(s)


I have 27 extract brews which have at various times been under my belt, and I 
am thinking about making this year's Christmas Ale a partial-mash brew.  I 
don't have the equipment for all-grain, but I'd like to experiment.  I have 
many questions, but I'll start with just one, in the interests of "bandwidth",
and also hoping that by getting responses to my questions one at a time, 
eventually I'll get them all answered!

So here is my first question.  I have heard or thought of a couple different 
ways of handling the four pounds or so of grain I'll be dealing with.  (1) 
Put all the grains in a grain bag, go through the various temperature rests, 
and instead of the "mashout" remove the bag and either just squeeze the 
liquid out of the bag by mashing (sic) it down in a colander placed across 
the top of the kettle or running 170F. water through the bag/colander or 
both.  (2) Don't use a bag; at the end of the mash, dump the liquor and 
grains into a kettle, then pour back through the colander to catch the grains 
and then sparge; (3) get another plastic bucket and drill holes to make the 
double-bucket lautering system; (4) fabricate that portable easymasher thing 
with the copper tube w/ screen or choreboy attached that rises over the side 
of the kettle and can drain into another vessel.  Which method would be 
considered preferable, and what are the pro's/con's of each?  Is there a way 
I haven't thought of?  Is there one of the above I should definitely NOT do?
Okay, so that was four questions, give me a break.

I would vastly prefer (1) or (2) for the sake of simplicity and minimal 
investment of time (not fabricating things), unless I'm likely to produce off-
flavors or I might get such lousy extraction that it will not have been worth 
the effort.

Sorry about the FAQ on FAQ's a while back.  Actually, the irony was not lost 
on me when I posted my request, so I'm glad if some of you got a chuckle out 
of it!

Jonathan Knight
Grinnell Iowa

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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 11:41:27 CDT
From: lencell at unmc.edu (Lance Encell)
Subject: Beer in Telluride?

Anybody know of brew-pubs or micros in the Telluride, CO area or neighboring
towns?  Thanks,

 -Lance

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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 12:02:21 EDT
From: cjh at diaspar.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: re malt v dextrose

rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com says

> 					.  Theoretically, the malt
primed beer will have better flavor stability as oxygen has been    
scavenged from the bottle during the bottle fermentation. 

Has anyone tested this? Miller suggests leaving very little headspace,
and not capping for a short while after filling, on the grounds that
enough CO2 will evolve to flush out the oxygen; I don't know anyone
who's measured this.

One method \not/ recommended for homebrewers due to messiness: at Old
Dominion, the owner told us his bottling machine squirts a tiny bit of hot
water into each filled bottle to make the beer foam, thus replacing O2 with
CO2. (The machine fills from the bottom and is not very high-speed; I don't
know whether high-speed machines produce enough foam just in handling the
beer.)

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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 12:23:10 EDT
From: cecil at udc.com (Cecil Clontz)
Subject: Have Brew Keg - What Now?

Greetings Homebrewers,

I am new to this mail list and to homebrewing. I am on my fourth batch of Brew. 
I recently aquired a 15 1/2 Gallon Brewery keg (The kind your local beverage
shop sells beer in and keeps your $50.00 deposit til you return). This Keg uses
a tap that pushes down and turns. I have several questions. 1) Where can I 
get a tap (other than rent one and dont return it ).   2) can I rig this keg
to use CO2 and use it insted of bottling.  3) If I can use a regular tap,
how do I get the beer carbonated since with oxygen pumped in it will go bad 
in a few days.  I know someone out there has the scoop on these ignorant 
questions. 

Cecil Clontz
Iguana Head Brewery
cecil at udc.com

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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 09:24:00 PDT
From: David Allison 225-5764 <ALLISON.DAVID at a1gw.gene.com>
Subject: kegging/infection(?) question


First time caller - long time listener

After kegging my beer, which was malty/low bitterness/clear, it became sour 
and cloudy very quickly.  Before kegging, I allowed the beer to condition 
in the secondary at 32 - 34 F for a couple of weeks and then racked to my 
cornelius (sp?) keg.  While racking, I accidentally picked up some trub 
(approx. 10 - 20 mL) off of the bottom of the secondary.  The corn. keg was 
purged with CO2 prior to racking by filling the keg with 12 ppm BTF 
iodophor and displacing it with low psi CO2.  This prevents the beer from 
exposure with air.  Anyway... After force carbonation with CO2, two days 
later the beer is bitter/sour/cloudy.  I allowed it to set for a couple of 
weeks at 32-34 F, thinking that the stuff from the bottom of the secondary 
was the culprit and it needed to settle out.  Well... That didn't work. 

Any ideas/comments that can help?

Beer history:
All grain - 5 gallons
8# 2-row Belgian malt
1# Belgian caravienna malt
1/2 # Belgian Special B malt
Saaz/Hallertau hops
Wyeast German Ale Yeast (w/ starter)

American Double Mash (90 F -> 122 F -> 152 F)
3.25 gal mash water in 10 gal SS pot
3.25 gal sparge water (170 F) - grain bag/bucket w/spigot method

Immersion wort chiller
Glass primary and secondary
 - 5 day primary at 65 F (blew out air-lock due to high activity of this yeast
as discussed in previous thread)
 - 10 day secondary at 60 F
 - 2-week condition at 32 - 34 F
 - racking as stated above

Thoughts?

Thanks
 - David
(allison2 at gene.com)




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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 12:42:28 -0600
From: Paul Boor <PBOOR at beach.utmb.edu>
Subject: Easy Masher

In response to the recent posting by NPyle who seems in search of streamlining
methods (rather than complicating them), I submit my EASY MASHER METHODOLOGY
with which I have brewed upward of 50+ brews, many of them great.

This methods owes its seemingly bizarre beginnings to the 20 year old book by
C.J.J. Berry, a paperback that is still found in some homebrew stores.  The
method also harkens back to postings of several months ago concerning overnight
mashing:

1) Friday night (near midnight): grind up your grain bill.
2) Heat lots of water to 180F; make up a THICK mash in your masher/spargatron
of choice.
3) Stick in your preset AQUARIUM HEATER, put on the top, plug in the heater.
4) Sack out with your significant other, if available.
5) Wake up early and stir one kettle-full of near-boiling water into the
masher/spargatron, bringing temp up toward 170F.
6) Sparge it out with 170F water.

If you insist on taking lots of temps and otherwise wasting precious time, you
will get a strike of about 155F on Friday night.  The masher/spargatron should
be of the insulated variety so frequently discussed on the HBD.  Indeee, in the
years before the great GOTT gave us coolers, I used "wastebin" wrapped up in
blankets a la C.J.J.Berry's original description.  With today's standard
insulated deal, even without tinkering with an aquarium heater, your AM strike
will be in the 125-135 range; the heater keeps it higher.

It is true: "all-graining doesn't have to be that tough!"  This method is
especially well suited to use with English (well-modified) malts and heavier
beers.

Any other easy-mashers out there???

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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 12:30:44 EDT
From: Lee=A.=Menegoni at nectech.com
Subject: cloning Samuel Smith beers

An important part of getting the Samuel Smith taste is by producing elevated
levels of diacetyl in your fermentation process.   Diacetyl production by the
yeast occurs early in the fermentation proccess and is directly related to
temperature.  Diacetyl reduction by the yeast occurs later.
I accidently brewed a SSPA clone from a standard Pale Ale recipe by:
Pitching my starter into wort that was about 10F warmer than fermentation temp.
This produced the elevated levels of diacetyl.

Racking to secondary immediately after primary fermetation ceased and then
adding finings to percipitate the yeast out prematurely. 
This reduces the yeast population at the point at which diacetyl gets reduced
The high level produced early coupled with the small yeast population 
available for reduction will result in a beer with noticable levels of 
diacetyl.

Notes:  I pitch a starter that I step up for about a week, it has about 3/8"
of slurry on the bottom of a 1.5l wine bottle.  I suspect this large yeast
population coupled with the warm temp directly effects the amount of diacety 
produced.  If your starter was smaller the wort would cool while its population
expands and the level of diacetyl would be less.
 
I have also heard that excessive diacetyl is produced in under airated worts
does any one have information on this?
 
 

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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 13:11:49 EDT
From: lyons%adc1 at swlvx2.msd.ray.com
Subject: Can the liquid loss in a blow off setup be minimized?

In HBD #1231 Eugene gives the following schematic for a blow-off 
setup.
                                  _________
                                 //-------\\
                               _||||_     ||
                              /  ||  \    ||
                             /________\   ||
                             |        |   ||
                             |        |   ||
                             |  BREW  |  /||\
                             |        | |-||-|
                             |        | |H2O |
                             |________| |____|


I used such a system recently for a OG 1054 dry stout and lost one 
gallon of brew during the blow-off period.  The fermentation was 
carried out at 68F using the new Red Star Ale yeast.  The tubing I'm
using between the two containers is the standard 3/8" (ID) siphon tubing.
Does anyone experienced with this technique have any tricks for
minimizing the amount of fluid loss?

Chris

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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1993 14:54:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: One Lain Meyer <meyer at uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: fermentation substrate and flavor...


On a windy day i overheard:

#Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1993 11:02:14 -0400 (EDT)
#From: "Robert H. Reed" <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
#Subject: Malt/Wort vs. Dextrose Bottle Priming
#
#In HBD #1229, p.shaw5 at genie.geis.com writes:
# 
#> While I'm here and dyslurking, I have another question.  Other than
#> spiritual and philosophical blessings, are there any real, tangible
#> advantages to priming with DME orusing a gyre to prime?  I'm just an evil
#> barbarian extract/dry yeast brewer at this stage in my experience and while
#> lots of the stuff I make is quite decent, the flavors are always strong and
#> harsh, like a Ben & Jerry's beer.
#
#Theory tells us that due to the differences in the way that yeast ferments
#malt and corn sugar, that there will be differences in the beer according
#to the priming technique you choose: a beer primed with DME or wort will
#go through both respiration and fermentation phases of yeast
#metabolism.  During yeast respiration, the yeast consume oxygen on their
#journey to reproduction.  The corn sugar primed beer will bypass the 
#respiration phase via the crabtree effect.  Theoretically, the malt
#primed beer will have better flavor stability as oxygen has been    
#scavenged from the bottle during the bottle fermentation. 
#
***********************************************************************
 **** Rob Reed             Internet: rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com   ****
 **** IC Design Center            Delco Electronics Corporation   ****
***********************************************************************

If there is oxygen available, then the yeast will continue from glycolysis
thru TCA and ETC, regardless of what substrate you use. (DME or corn sugar)
When the oxygen is depleated then they will reduce the pyruvate from
glycolysis into ethanol and CO2 via Acetaldehyde. 

 -OLM

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Date: 22 Sep 93 15:45:00 CST
From: "DEV::SJK" <SJK%DEV.decnet at mdcgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: RE: Mailing Brew

Hi:  I just joined the club and thought I'd make my debut with my $0.02 on
Rich Ryan's question 'bout sending beer through the mail.

I regularly exchange homebrew with a buddy who has lived in Florida, Oregon,
and Nevada.  The very first time I tried to send him brew, I very cleverly
told the lady behind the counter what was in the package (they will not ask
you, you have to give yourself away).  She promptly pushed the package back
at me and said that sending liquids in bottles via the US Mail is not
something I wanted to get caught doing.  So I went to another post office.
I guess this means that the US Postal Service doesn't want us using them to
send beer.  However, I always do.

I ALWAYS send beers First Class.  It costs a lot (about $1/lb.) but the
packages I sent from Long Beach, CA to Corvallis, OR got there in two or
three days.  For me, this short time for delivery is worth the extra cost.
I like the idea that if my beer is sitting somewhere that is beer-hostile,
it won't be there for long.

Zymurgy had an article not too long ago (issue?) specifically about packaging 
beer for sending to contests.  I remember that it specifically did NOT say
whether or not it is legal to send beer via UPS, US Mail, etc.  The article
was written by someone who has done a lot of UNpacking beer for contests and
he recommended that you not get carried away with packaging.  Basically, his
reason for this was that over-packaged bottles were a hassle for him to deal
with.  If you're going to send via US Mail, I would recommend the opposite.
I don't know the legal ramifications of getting beer on other people's mail
and I don't want to know (at least not from a postal inspector knocking on my
door).  I use lots of newspaper for insulation from temp extremes, cushioning,
and absorbtion (though I haven't lost one yet), and two layers of plastic for
"head retention".  Of course, packaging == money, but I want my beer there
quickly, quietly, and safely.

I called UPS ((800) 222-8333) and they said that they do NOT handle beer.
The person I spoke to acted as if she had heard this question many times
(she laughed) but said that they do handle wine "in some states".  This whole
thing may be trickier than I thought.  Is it illegal to send alcohol across
state lines, period?  Is the AHA in big trouble for encouraging this sort
of behaviour?  Somebody MUST do this.  How does Anchor send out their Xmas
Ale?  Or do they only ship within California?  Hmm...

I do have some experiences with UPS which I think are worth sharing.  First,
this very friend with which I exchange beer once worked for UPS unloading
trucks.  According to him, UPS would prefer to suffer some breakage and
compensate the customer rather than slow things down (I realize this is
hearsay and other's experiences may be different).  In support of this, my
friend and I have exchanged only one package via UPS and it was the only
time bottles arrived broken.  Also, it took MUCH longer for the package to
arrive (about 7 days instead of the 3 days which seems to be typical for 1st
Class).  I realize this is condemnation on slim evidence and the main reason
I don't use UPS is the time for delivery, though I can't say for sure that
spoilage has been a problem.  Perhaps they offer a speedier but cheaper
service similar to 1st Class.

Hopes this helps.  I guess Rich's question still stands.  Anyone know the
legal way?


Scott Kaczorowski
sjk%c17fcs.decnet at mdcgwy.mdc.com



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Date:         22 Sep 93 16:41:06 CST
From: "Dennis Lewis" <DLEWIS%jscdh6 at jesnic.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject:      Zymurgy and Tix to GABF

I just got the latest Zymurgy last night (I'm reserving comment until
it gets further inspection.) and a card fell out inviting me to a
*special* AHA-members only beer tasting on October 9 from 2-5pm.
You'll need a valid ID, a GABF ticket stub, and this postcard (no
mention of *needing* an AHA membership card or anything like that).

Anyway, I'm not going to the GABF, but I'd hate for someone to miss
out on such an *exclusive* event because of some silly regulation
like membership in the AHA. So, I'll mail this invitation to the first
person (presumably, a non-AHA member) who e-mails me with their
address.

The early bird gets wormed,



Dennis Lewis                    <dlewis%jscdh6 at jesnic.jsc.nasa.gov>
Homebrew, The Final Frontier.

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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 08:21:00 -0600
From: chuck.wettergreen at aquila.com (Chuck Wettergreen)
Subject: soldering keg fittings


In HBD 1231, Wayde Nie <u9106857 at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca>
asked about Silver Solder on wort boilers

WN> What is the collective net wisdom on using silver solder to
  > install the fittings into to base of a converted keg style
  > boiler. I would think that soldering would be less of an
  > undertaking than paying someone to weld SS.

First, I'm not sure that you could get it to effectively bond to the 
stainless.

Second, if you did get it to stick, you'd run the risk of having the 
solder melt from the heat you're applying to the wort.

Third, solder is composed (I believe) of tin, lead, and antimony. I 
don't think I'd want to take the chance of exposing my acidic wort 
to that particular composition and risk some of it disolving in my 
wort.

The welding shouldn't cost you more that $20 if you find the 
stainless pipe nipple for the welder and pre-drill the hole.

You might also check out the brass fittings at a good hardware 
store. I'm sure you can find some sort of compression fitting that 
will do the trick.

Better yet, offer to trade homebrew for welding. That's what I did.

Chuck
 * RM 1.2 00946 * 

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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 08:21:00 -0600
From: chuck.wettergreen at aquila.com (Chuck Wettergreen)
Subject: wierd yeast activity


All,
I'm making an all-grain pale ale using Yeast Labs American Ale 
yeast (Hey, it's all I had available at the time!).

I have never seen a yeast act this peculiar. I made a starter 9/9. 
The yeast was relatively fresh; the good until date was the end of 
October. The yeast took 36 hours to start working, and then it was 
very subdued.

Once added to the wort (at 70 deg. F) it took 24 hours to give any 
evidence of working. After noticing reduced ferm. lock activity 
after three days, I racked to secondary. 

The yeast acts like it is still in primary fermentation phase. It 
still is producing a "cap" of sticky bubbles after about 9 days in 
the secondary (at 68 deg.). If I slightly agitate the carboy the 
bubbles collapse into large floculante (?) (large pieces of yeast-
beastie stuff that falls to the bottom of the carboy), and then the 
bubbles immediately re-form into a cap. Fermentation lock activity 
is now at about the once every 30 seconds stage, but the bubbles 
persist.

I have never seen anything like this before. Has anyone used this 
yeast stain before or experienced this?

Chuck 


 * RM 1.2 00946 * 

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Date:    Wed, 22 Sep 93 22:11:52 GMT
From: sbsgrad%sdph.span at Sdsc.Edu
Subject: St. Pat's of Texas

From: Steve Slade <sslade at ucsd.edu> 
Date sent:  22-SEP-1993 15:10:39 PT 

Could some kind soul please send me, by private email, the phone # for St. 
Pat's of Texas? Seems I lost it in the last disc purge/backup.

Thanks,

Steve Slade 
reply to: sbsgrad%sdph.span at sdsc.edu  or  sslade at ucsd.edu

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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 17:54:49 -0600
From: Kelly Jones <k-jones at ee.utah.edu>
Subject: Brazing vs Silver-soldering vs TIG welding


Someone asked about silver-soldering vs welding nipples onto kegs...

Be very cautious of silver solders, as most of them are about 96% tin.
As others have pointed out here, tin is not compatible with hot wort.

A third option is to braze the nipple.  Brazing is similar to
soldering, except that higher temperatures and different alloys are
used.  Because of the higher temps involved, a simple propane torch
will not suffice.  However, I just finished brazing my nipple, (this
is beginning to sound like S&M) using a combination propane/oxygen
torch.  This heats the SS up to bright cherry red, hot enough to
braze.  I believe a MAPP gas torch will also work, I think a MAPP
cylinder can simply be used in place of propane on a standard propane
torch for a hotter flame.  The brazing rod I used was called
Copper-Phosphorous. I checked the MSDS for these and there didn't
seem to be anything in it that would be bad for me or my beer (note
there is _no_ cadmium or other heavy metals in these rods). 
All of this equipment/materials can be purchased at any good hardware
store/home center, for much less than the cost of a MIG or TIG setup.

Kelly


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Date:         Wed, 22 Sep 93 17:13:51 PDT
From: MURRAYT at WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU
Subject:      Barley diseases

In the HBD on 14 Sep 93, korz at iepubj.att.com wrote the about production of
various malting barley varieties in the U.S.  I have heard from two different
sources now that most of the malting barley in the midwest and upper great
plains (Minnesota, North & South Dakota) has been damaged/destroyed this year
due to scab.  Scab, or head blight, is caused by a fungus that produces several
mycotoxins, among them vomitoxin, which prevents the sale of contaminated
grain.  One book I read says that "beer made with scabby barley takes on
a 'gushy' or excessive foaming characteristic. However, because of strict
grading standards, scabby barley is not used by the brewing industry today."
As little as 3% scabby barley can be toxic to hogs, but other livestock
do not react the same.  If I remember correctly, some of the mycotoxins
produced by this fungus have been implicated as potential carcinogens too.
The excessive rain this spring and summer in the region is to blame for
the above-normal amounts of scab.  This means that malters will likely be
buying grain from other areas of the country, like Washington, which do not
normally produce large amounts of malting barley. I have not heard whether this
is expected to affect price and/or supply.

Tim Murray
Dept. of Plant Pathology
Washington State University
MURRAYT at WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU

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Date: Wed, 22 Sep 93 22:57:18 -0400
From: Marty Hicks <martyh at kitchen.mcad.edu>
Subject: Interactive CD-ROM


Are there any home brewers out there interested in an interactive CD-ROM with 
beautiful graphics and animation that describes the history, process and 
products of brewing? A group of people including myself has begun thinking 
seriously about such a project and has started producing prototypes. How much 
money would such a CD be worth to you? Would it be more attractive with a 
sponsor? We would appreciate your input.

Marty
- -----------------------------------------------
Jon Martin Hicks   martyh at mcad.edu
- -----------------------------------------------
CERRELUS
Virtual Worlds, Intermedia
2223 Stewart Avenue
Saint Paul, MN 55116
- -----------------------------------------------
Phone: (612) 699-0083   Fax: (612) 699-0083
- -----------------------------------------------

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1232, 09/23/93