FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Just the Facts, Please (Jack Schmidling)
  Last Year's Hops (GANDE)
  re:Maple syrup/sap  (R.) Cavasin" <cav at bnr.ca>
  Bottle labels (mcdcup!tellabs.com!don)
  Re: younger's no. 3 (Paul Jasper)
  Belmont Brewing Co. ("DEV::SJK")
  Maple in beer and wort chiller length (Keith A. MacNeal HLO1-1/T09 DTN 225-6171  14-Oct-1993 1706)
  Oxidation and Filtering (arne thormodsen)
  hot priming (Bart Thielges)
  Adjusting water pH ("Christopher V. Sack")
  Making drinks with Beeer? (blazo)
  Jim Koch won't shut up! (npyle)
  Re: beginning questions & beggining all-grain questions (npyle)
  Info on Portland area (LIFE'S TOO SHORT TO DRINK CHEAP BEER)
  Raspberry or Peach beer... (Steven Tollefsrud)
  SPRUCE beer (John D. Pavao)
  Re: Stuck Fermentation? (Diane Palme x2617)
  Carboy "box" / Rock Bock (15-Oct-1993 0941 -0400)
  Transporting Homebrew  (ROBERT.URWILER)
  Not Legal Everywhere (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
  Re: 5 micron filters (Jim Busch)
  Mashout (Paul deArmond)
  7 gal carboys, racking canes, SG & DMEDME&SG (Bill Szymczak)
  bad COPS & bananas (David Atkins)
  formula request (CLAYTON Joseph A Jr)
  rotten egg smell in fermentation (Joel Birkeland)
  Re: Flaked Maize (Jeff Frane)
  alcohol percentages, too (Montgomery_John)
  Flaming Dr. Pepper (gorman)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 13:20 CDT
From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Just the Facts, Please

 
 >From: Kelly Jones <k-jones at ee.utah.edu>
 
 >In HBD#1246, Chris Seiders <SEIDERS at HANDI.MED.UTAH.EDU>
 writes:
 
 >>b3duIE51dCBBbGUgb24gU2F0LiBBZnRlciBib2lsaW5nIHRoZSBleHRyYWN0IGZv
 >>cg0KMSBociBJIGFkZGVkIGl0IHRvIG15IDUgZ2FsbG9uIGdsYXNzIGNhcmJveSBh
 
 >This is pure Hogwash! Don't believe everything Jack tells you!!
 
 Learn how to read!  It was Korzonas who said:
  
 >>oaWNoIEkgaGF2ZW4ndCBlbmNvdW50ZXJlZCBiZWZvcmUgKG5vdCBzdXJwcmlzaW5nIG9uDQpvbm
 >>x5IHRoZSBzZWNvbmQgYmF0Y2gpIGFuZCBhbSBsb29raW5nIGZvciBz
 
 I said:
 
 >>>mUNCmVuY291bnRlcmVkIHNvbWUgdGhpbmdzIHdoaWNoIEkgaGF2ZW4ndCBl
 >>>bmNvdW50ZXJlZCBiZWZvcmUgKG5vdCBzdXJwcmlzaW5nIG9uDQpvbmx5IHRoZSBz
 >>>ZWNvbmQgYmF0Y2gpIGFuZCBhbSBsb29raW5nIGZvciBzb21lIHdvcmRzIG9mIGFk
 >>>dmljZ
 
 And if either of you knew what you were talking about you wouldn't say such 
 silly things.
 
 js
 

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Date: 14 Oct 93 20:03:20 GMT
From: GANDE at slims.attmail.com
Subject: Last Year's Hops

It's past harvest time for most hop growers and the '93 crop is
available for purchase at most locations. It seems that one can still
get '92 hops at a really good price since most vendors want to unload
them.

Would anyone know what percent of Alpha Acid has been lost in the
1992 crop, assuming they were stored under optimum conditions? I just
purchased about a pound and would like to adjust my recipes.

TIA....Glenn Anderson
+----------------------------------+
| Internet: gande at slims.attmail.com|
| Glenn Anderson                   |
| Manager, Telecom. Facilities     |
| Sun Life of Canada               |
+----------------------------------+











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Date:  Thu, 14 Oct 1993 14:41:00 +0000 
From: "Rick (R.) Cavasin" <cav at bnr.ca>
Subject:  re:Maple syrup/sap 

I believe it's the Niagara Brewing Co. of Niagara Falls, Ontario
that brews a 'Maple Wheat' beer.  It's around 8 percent alcohol
by volume (if memory serves).  This may be to ensure some
residual sweetness.  The maple flavour is definitely subdued,
and mostly detected in the finish.  A nice enough beer, but
not something I'd go out of my way for (it's fairly pricey too),
but then I've never been big on strong beers.
Perhaps I should get a bottle to refresh my memory re: specifics
of its flavour, etc.
Cheers, Rick C.



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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 14:12:15 CDT
From: hplabs!mcdcup!tellabs.com!don
Subject: Bottle labels

>  I'm setting up a homebrewing "kit" for a friend for Christmas,
>  including two cases of M*ller longnecks in the waxed cardboard
>  cases.  I'd like to mimimize the time/effort in removing the
>  foil labels.  In the past I've tried a variety of solvents, boiling 
>  water, wire brush, razor blade, etc. but never found a combination
>  that worked well.  Anyone have any tricks for this?  Please don't
>  suggest other bottle types, I already have the empties, and I'm
>  a big fan of clear bottles.
I've had good luck using a mix of bleach and TSP to clean real grungy
bottles. Make some with real hot water and soak overnight. By morning
most of the lables usually fall off. Some bottles are real tough though
namely, Legacy lager. They get real slimy.



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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 12:43:34 -0700
From: paul at rational.com (Paul Jasper)
Subject: Re: younger's no. 3

On 13 Oct,  9:08, Tony Babinec 312 329-3570 wrote:
> Subject: younger's no. 3
> 
> In Scotland, McEwan's has an ale known as 80 Shilling or IPA, with
> a gravity of 1042.  In England -- spotted in London in The Sun -- you'll
> find Younger No. 3, a cask-conditioned ale of SG 1043.  Think of this
> as an example of AHA Scottish Export.

Pardon?  Unless the AHA styles are even more bizarre than I recall,
Younger's No. 3 is nowhere close to a Scottish Export.  It's more like
a strongish dark mild or a mildish/sweetish porter.

> In the US, you'll find the 
> bottled counterparts to these two beers.  The IPA goes by the same
> name, and I don't remember the name of the other beer, but it might
> be McEwan's Export.  

McEwan's Export definitely isn't the same beer as Younger's No. 3.
Although they're both brewed by Scottish & Newcastle in Edinburgh,
the former has OG 1046 and is a dark amber color, and the latter is
OG 1043 and dark brown.  Roasted barley vs. crystal malt, I'd say.

I don't know if the IPA is the same or not.  I'm not very impressed
by any of S&N's pasteurized products, so if I have seen the IPA
around I probably just ignored it... :^)

> [...]
>-- End of excerpt from Tony Babinec 312 329-3570



- -- 
- -- Paul Jasper
- -- RATIONAL
- -- Object-Oriented Products
- --

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Date: 14 Oct 93 14:06:00 CST
From: "DEV::SJK" <SJK%DEV.decnet at mdcgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Belmont Brewing Co.


   I have to respond to Mark's comments about the Belmont Brewing
Company.  Let me first admit that while the BBC is one of my favorite
brew pubs, it's mostly because of the location (which is ON the beach
with a fabulous view) and the fact that it is only a 20 minute walk
from my house ;-).  In this light, I'd mostly just like to take the
edge off of some of Mark's comments.

   As far as the food is concerned, it's unfortunately very variable.
The pizzas are all good as is the tortellini with sausage.  The chicken
and mushroom pasta is very bland.  This regrettably leaves very few
choices.  The food, in my opinion, is the BBC's weakest link.

   Now to the beer.  Mark is essentially correct and the beer varies a
little more in quality than it probably should.  The Marathon is to be
avoided.  It is VERY light, and doesn't have enough body or taste to
cover the minor errors which are obviously made with this beer.  The
Strawberry Blond is a Marathon with much too much strawberry flavor.
Cut the berries back a little and you'd have a fine specialty beer, with
the berries covering up some of the problems with the Marathon.  Then
again, they may just be making what people want.  They sell a lot of it.
Order a glass rather than a pint.

   The Sail Ale (not mentioned by Mark) is excellent and is my favorite.
It is described as a pale ale, but it's really more in the Blue Heron
tradition (as opposed to Bass) and is almost, but not quite, an IPA.
(BTW, I hear Bridgeport is thinking about maybe considering the
possibility of sending some of their production from their new
facilities to CA.  Oh please, God, I'll do ANYTHING...  Any real info on
this out there?).  The Crude is also very good, but could be a little
more distinctive.

   Also, I disagree with Mark in that I have always found the BBC's beer
to be a little over-hopped.  Haven't been in a month or so; maybe
they're trying to widen their market by dropping their hop rate.  I also
haven't noticed excessive yeastiness, except maybe in the Marathon which
is always cloudy.

   Concerning prices, I think they are comparable to other restaurants
in the area.  After all, this is L.A. (more or less) and they are on
the beach.  I've always found the service to be better than average.

   There are other points in the BBC's favor, but I think I'll just
say that they've been very consistent, and gotten consistently better,
since they opened.  Two of their four beers are very good and the view
is worth the trip.  Don't write them off completely.

   Mark made one comment that really didn't sit right with me, and that
was his description of the BBC as trendy.  I won't say that it isn't,
because I'm not exactly sure what he means, but don't ALL brewpubs
"cater specifically to trend followers"?  At still less than 1% of the
national beer market, I'd have to say that ALL brewpubs and micros could
be said to fall into the "trend" category.  And if fruit beers are a
trend, then I'm all for being trendy.  If the decor is what Mark meant
by "trendy" (oak, brass, a few plants, fish tank), remember they have an
ocean view and want to show it off.  They necessarily have a lot of
glass.  A traditional English pub would be better off somewhere else.
Besides, who would begrudge a yuppie (do they still exist?) a good beer
once and awhile?  They're misguided maybe, but not evil.  (Buttweiper is
the ugly side of brewing, if you ask me.)  I have a feeling I know what
Mark's next L.A. area brewpub review is going to be like.  No slam
intended, I just don't think he's going to find what he's looking for.

   Mark is really on pretty firm ground as I know others who don't care
too much for the BBC.  On the other hand, I know a lot more people that
do.  So, is the BBC worth the trip?  I think so.  Is it worth a repeat
visit?  That depends on how far you live from Hopland.  

Scott Kaczorowski
sjk%c17fcs.decnet at mdcgwy.mdc.com

P.S.  While I'm here, I'd like to make a request:  No more b*g*yman,
please.  If we're going to split hairs, we should at least keep it in
the area of brewing (trub, anyone?).




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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 17:07:58 EDT
From: Keith A. MacNeal HLO1-1/T09 DTN 225-6171 14-Oct-1993 1706 <macneal at pate.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Maple in beer and wort chiller length

For what it's worth, Sam Adams Cranberry Lambic claims to use maple syrup to 
balance the tartness of the cranberries.

Please, let's not start again with the Koch bashing.  I'm simply passing on 
some info about the use of maple syrup in a commercial beer.

Someone asked about appropriate length for a wort chiller.  When this was 
asked awhile ago, I dug out my copy of the Chemical Engineers' Handbook and 
posted some equations.  You can probably find it in the HBD archives.  You 
need to make some assumptions and decide on the maximum amount of time you 
want to spend in cooling the wort to come up with a length.

Keith MacNeal
Digital Equipment Corp.
Hudson, MA

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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 14:17:09 -0700
From: arne thormodsen <arnet at kaibutsu.cup.hp.com>
Subject: Oxidation and Filtering

>Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 13:05 CDT
>From: korz at iepubj.att.com
>Subject: RE: STRAINING YOUR BREW
>
>Matthew writes:
>>I have one of those handy brew kits you get for Christmas with the 6 gal.
>>carboy. I realized after my 1st batch that I was getting a lot of haze in my
>>beer so I thought I might strain it prior to bottling. What I came up with has
>>been REALLY NICE! I used one of those reusable GOLD plated coffee filters
>>(you can get them at any fancy coffee shop). I setup my 2nd carboy underneath
>>the 1st and placed the filter inside of a funnel (perfect fit) and drained off
>>the beer from the top, up to the last inch of trub. The filter is coarse
>>enough that the beer gets through but fine enough that it catches all the crud
>>that's still floating about. Since I've gone to this, I have truly had nothing
>>but crystal clear beer!
>
>Crystal clear maybe, but probably quite oxidized.  Does your beer have a
>sherry-like aroma?  I think you may want to try to find the source of your
>haze (perhaps you are just not waiting for the yeast to settle -- some strains
>take quite a while -- maybe just try a different strain).  As the fermented-
>out beer falls from the funnel into the 2nd carboy, you are going to introduce
>a lot of oxygen (unless you purge the carboy with CO2, perhaps) and this will
>give your resulting beer sherry-like or wet-cardboard aromas.
>Al.

OK, I'll be the heretic.  Hey, new brewers!  DON'T worry about oxidation
when transferring to secondary.  The beer is cool and saturated
(probably supersaturated) with CO2.  If it foams a little when you
transfer it there is virtually no way it will oxidize, because CO2 is
coming out.  If it doesn't foam when you transfer it it was probably in
primary too long and you migh as well bottle it.  I can't see any harm
in what is described here.  Filering hot wort is one thing, filtering
cool fermenting beer is something entirely different.

Relax, have a homebrew, and shove that nasty ol' oxidation bogeyman back
in the closet where it (usually) belongs.

- --arne


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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 15:02:50 PDT
From: relay.hp.com!daver!nexgen!bart (Bart Thielges)
Subject: hot priming

When I prime my fermented beer with corn sugar, I usually cool the priming
solution to 70F with an ice bath before mixing with the beer.  
(Egads !  I've just publically admitted to both priming and use of corn sugar.
There goes my chances of CamRA membership !)  

I've always thought that this step is probably not necessary since the 
thermal mass of 1 pint of 200F sugar water is nothing compared with 5 
gallons  at  70F.  So what if I zap a few yeast cells on the initial contact ?  
They don't have very good lawyers anyway.

I've never had the guts to actually risk a batch with this hot combination
experiment.  Has anyone else done this successfully ?  I'd like to 
simplify my process.

Thanks,
Bart

Brewing equipment destroyed while typing this message : 0

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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 18:02:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Christopher V. Sack" <cvsack at mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: Adjusting water pH

On Thu, 14 Oct 1993, Ken Miller, responding to Phil Brushaber, wrote:

> Phil Brushaber solicits non-basic information:
> 
> ... Text deleted ...
> >        Any guess on how much of this 88% Lactic Acid I might use
> >to adjust the PH in 5 gallons? You know something like: "1 tsp of
> >88% Lactic acid should lower 5 gallons of liquid by .4 PH degrees".
> >I could use trial and error but I've got a hunch that someone
> >out there may have the answer or be familiar with this stuff.
> 
> Sorry, it isn't that simple. pH is a logarithmic scale, and the
> degree of lowering will depend on both the volume and pH of both
> the liquid and the acid. If you know the exact pH of your water, it
> is possible to calculate the amount of lactic acid needed to lower
> 5 gallons of it to a specified pH. (When I get my hands on a
> Merck Index, I'll post the equation.)
> 
Sorry Ken, it isn't that simple.  Not only is pH logrithmic, the change 
of pH depends on the composition of the solution to be adjusted.  The 
information you get from Merck Index, Handbook of Chem & Physics etc. will 
all be for distilled water.  The dissolved things in tap water (metals, 
salts, minerals, organics, etc.) may buffer the water to some extent.  
Buffering means that the pH is *more resistant* to change, ie. more acid 
is needed to effect a pH drop.

> In practice, it's probably easier to use trial and error, since
  ^^ ^^^^^^^^  ^^^^          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> tap water pH can vary from brewing to brewing .....
> Dave Miller (in TCHOHB) recommends diluting the lactic acid first,
> using a ratio of 3 cups water to 2 tsp lactic acid; ....
>
Both of Ken's statements make good chemical sense.  Remember 88% lactic 
acid can cause *serious* burns if splashed on bare skin.

Chris 
Besides - "If I knew what I was doing, it wouldn't be research!" Anon.
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
|      ___            ___                   Christopher V. Sack |
|     /   )  |    /  /   )         |         Graduate Student   |
|    /       |   /  (___   __   __ |        Dept. of Chemistry  |
|   /        |  /       ) __ ) /  )|  /     State Univ. of N.Y. |
|  /         | /       / /  / /    | /      Syracuse, NY  13210 |
| (____/*    |/* (____/ (__\ (__/  |/ \    <cvsack at lor.syr.edu> |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+ 
 




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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 22:32:49 EDT
From: blazo at aol.com
Subject: Making drinks with Beeer?

In HBD #1247, sean v. taylor <sean at chemres.tn.cornell.edu>
RE:  Subject: Beer Drinks writes the following:

>Anyways, I wondered if other people had heard about making
drinks with beer?  Now, I've heard of adding some woodruff or
raspberry liqueur to a Berliner Weiss, a lemon to hefeweizen, and even mixing
fermented apple cider to ale, but I've never heard of beer
being used as merely an additive in some drink concoction.  Has
anybody else?

In London, England they mix bitter orange soda with beer and call the
resultant beverage "Shandy".  In some parts of England this is called "Orange
Shandy" and other soda beverages, Cherry, for instance, mixed with beer would
be called "Cherry Shandy".

It is almost shameful to admit it but (shudder) Orange Shandy tastes pretty
darn good as a "lawnmower style" malt beverage.  I know that this probably
offends the sensitivities of most of this audience, but, refuse to judge
until you've tried it.  Mix equal parts Schweppes Bitter Orange with Double
Diamond and see what I mean!

 -blazo

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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 16:46:11 MDT
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: Jim Koch won't shut up!

Having visited the 1993 GABF, and enjoyed the news that Boston Beer Company did
not win any gold medals, I was dismayed to read the following in "The Brew
Review" (copied without permission, so sue me.  No wait, how about 30 lashes
with a siphon hose?):

"GABF CONTINUES NEGOTIATIONS WITH BOSTON BEER COMPANY"

"Boston Beer Co. has changed their promotional print and point of sales printed
material to comply with the new GABF post-event publicity rules.  However,
Boston Beer Co. intends to continue its non-complying radio advertising,
promoting its late 1980's wins in the Consumer Preference polls.  For the
purposes of avoiding litigation, the Rules Committee has voted to allow the
Boston Beer Co. to participate in the 1993 Festival, in spite of its use of
radio advertising statements regarding Consumer Preference poll awards that do
not meet post-event publicity rules.  The decision was made based on
anticipated agreements and compliance in 1994.  However, the Rules Committee
continues to condition all brewery's participation, including the Boston Beer
Co.'s, in the GABF on compliance with the post-event publicity rules with
respect to any reference to Festival medal awards."

Unfortunately, it sounds like BBC's lawyers have won this round through
coercion and the threat of lawsuits.  Every brewery in the country appears to
be complying with GABF rules except BBC.  This hits me the wrong way.  I have
to admit I continued buying BBC products from time to time because I like the
beer, though I always disliked the business practices (I'm so ashamed).  This
is the last straw, though, and I join the chorus here and now:

BOYCOTT BBC!!!

norm

Opinions expressed above are mine and mine alone.  They do not represent the
opinion of my employer in any way.  (first time for that, sucks doesn't it?)

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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 10:03:19 MDT
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: Re: beginning questions & beggining all-grain questions

George Tempel asks:

>what equipment should I start out with?

You'll need:

3 gallon pot
racking cane
siphon hose, 6'
racheting hose crimper
air lock
rubber stopper to fit your...
fermenter
bottles
thermometer
1" blowoff hose, 3'

>plastic vs glass fermenters.

I prefer glass.

>extract 'kits': good ones, bad ones

Pick a recipe from Charlie's book.  Don't bother with kits.

>about how much $$$ for equipment?

$50 is a good guess.

>how much $$$ for a 5 gallon batch?

$20 is another good guess.

>can I brew 1/2 a recipe by cutting the ingredients?

Yes.  Remember, George these are my own opinions and you could get a dozen
answers to some of these questions.  The equipment list I gave is a minimum.
Things like a larger pot, a hydrometer, bottle washer, hop bags, etc. could
be considered up front as well.  If you get as hooked as the rest of us,
you'll soon be buying more "stuff", which has been defined as anything you
can use in homebrewing.  "Junk" is defined as anything you thought could be
used in homebrewing but can't.  At least that's how I heard it.

***

Matthew Bohne asks about using kits or not.  I recommend you disregard brewing
kits in general because there are so many good beginning recipes out there.
They are easily done, and make better beer.  TNCJHB and other books are loaded
with them.  Boil or not?  _ALWAYS_ boil, just watch the boilovers.  Don't boil
grains, though, strain them out.  BTW, Imperial Stouts are a fairly bitter
product, with the alcohol bite, the dark grains, etc.  (actually, I don't know
if "bitter" is an accurate descriptor) Maybe you don't like Imperial Stouts.

***

Kelly Jones forgot to mention:

bmN(*&^(--  asdfDA;JFDV--9238VIJNCZ[CVZCXVHnIG9uDQpvbmx5IHRoZSBz
ZWNvbmQgYmF0Y2gpIGFuZCBh2-34798ADFVCV  ;FD=GF9GUG SDFKJzIG9mIGFk

but otherwise his reply to Chris Seider was right on the money.  (you can't
remember everything, Kelly, especially after several homebrews!).

***

Eric Feris asks about tun construction (but makes the mistake that he's talking
to "experts" here).  Eric, this is another place that you could get about 1735
different answers, depending on people's experiences, investments $$$'s, time,
etc.  I use a 48 quart rectangular cooler as a mash / lauter tun.  It has a
copper manifold in the bottom which looks like this (bottom view):

   ____________________________
  | ____|___|__|___|__|___|____|
  ||
  ||___________________________
  | ___|___|___|___|____|______|
__||
__ |
  ||___________________________
  | ___|___|____|____|____|____|
  ||
  ||___________________________
  |_____|____|___|___|___|__|__|

There are numerous small slots cut into the pipe (1/2") with a hacksaw.  The
slots are on the bottom, away from the grain bed.  The pipe drains out the hole
in the cooler and makes a perfect fit with the gasket sold with the cooler.
Another way to do it is Jack's method, which is a single pipe with a piece of
SS screen over the end to keep grain out of the pipe.  In both cases the grain
does the filtering, the "manifolds" only serve to pick up the liquid.  One
thing that needs clarification:  if you build a mash/lauter tun from a cooler
(an inexpensive option) you cannot add heat to it easily.  Nobody I know has a
heating element in their cooler tun, although its not impossible.  Jack and
some others mash in a kettle on the stove, which is handy for adding heat.  A
large SS pot is way more expensive than a cooler, but a cheap canning pot could
be used.  For simple infusion mashes (one temperature) I don't need that
capability.  I add 1 quart of 170F water for each pound of grain in the cooler
and it settles out around my mash temperature 152-154F.  Here it is being used
as a mash tun.  After conversion, I start sparging and it is being used as a
lauter tun.  I see no need for separate tuns.  Good luck in your tun
construction; for me, it is almost as fun as brewing.

Cheers,
norm

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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 00:22:50 PDT
From: LIFE'S TOO SHORT TO DRINK CHEAP BEER <UNDERWOOD at INTEL7.intel.com>
Subject: Info on Portland area



	Hi all, 

	I will be up in the Portland, OR area this weekend and would
	appreciate any info on good brewpubs, micro tours, etc.
	(plus any other touristy things to do )

				Thanks in advance,

				Chuck

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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 10:40:33 +0100
From: steve_t at fleurie.inria.fr (Steven Tollefsrud)
Subject: Raspberry or Peach beer...


I would like to try using raspberry or peach to flavor my next
batch of beer, but I don't know what quantities to use.
How should I vary the hopping levels when using these fruit adjuncts?
Has anybody got a good recipe for an extract based peach or raspberry
beer?

steve tollefsrud

e-mail: steve_T at fleurie.compass.fr


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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 07:42:05 EDT
From: pavao at ptsws1 (John D. Pavao)
Subject: SPRUCE beer

Dear Homebrewers,

     I am thinking about making an extract-based batch of spruce beer.
I would be interested in comments about whether it's worth it, and if so,
how much spruce should be used for a five gallon batch.  Thanks in advance.

John
pavao at ptsws1.npt.nuwc.navy.mil

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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 07:18:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: dspalme at mke.ab.com (Diane Palme x2617)
Subject: Re: Stuck Fermentation?


Chris Seiders <SEIDERS at HANDI.MED.UTAH.EDU> writes:

>ICAgICBTaW5jZSB0aGlzIGlzIG15IGZpcnN0IHBvc3QgdG8gdGhpcyBsaXN0LCBw
>bGVhc2UgYmVhciB3aXRoIG1lLiAgSSBhbSBuZXcNCmF0IGJyZXdpbmcsIGFuZCBo
>YXZlIHJlY2VudGx5IHN0YXJ0ZWQgbXkgc2Vjb25kIGJhdGNoIG9mIGJyZXcuICBJ
>IGhhdmUNCmVuY291bnRlcmVkIHNvbWUgdGhpbmdzIHdoaWNoIEkgaGF2ZW4ndCBl
>bmNvdW50ZXJlZCBiZWZvcmUgKG5vdCBzdXJwcmlzaW5nIG9uDQpvbmx5IHRoZSBz

	Well, I have found that TheosiEHRHWFnoierHeKehfdijef is
of course the best solution to this problem.

>ZWNvbmQgYmF0Y2gpIGFuZCBhbSBsb29raW5nIGZvciBzb21lIHdvcmRzIG9mIGFk
>dmljZS9lbmNvdXJhZ2VtZW50Lg0KSSBzdGFydGVkIGFuIGFsbC1leHRyYWN0IEJy
>b3duIE51dCBBbGUgb24gU2F0LiBBZnRlciBib2lsaW5nIHRoZSBleHRyYWN0IGZv
>cg0KMSBociBJIGFkZGVkIGl0IHRvIG15IDUgZ2FsbG9uIGdsYXNzIGNhcmJveSBh

	Hey!  Didn't I see that on COPS last night?

>bmQgYnJvdWdodCBpdCB1cCB0byA1IGdhbGxvbnMNCndpdGggd2F0ZXIuICBJIHRo
>ZW4gY29vbGVkIHRoZSBjYXJib3kgaW4gYSB3YXRlci9pY2UgYmF0aCB1bnRpbCBp
>dCBjb29sZWQgdG8NCjc2+EYgYXQgd2hpY2ggcG9pbnQgSSBoeWRyYXRlZCB0aGUg
>d29ydCBieSByb2xsaW5nIHRoZSBjYXJib3kgYWxvbmcgdGhlDQpraXRjaGVuIGZs
>b29yIGFsb25nIHdpdGggc29tZSBtYW51YWwgc2hha2luZy4gIEkgdGhlbiByZWh5
>ZHJhdGVkIG15IHllYXN0DQooMTRnKSBpbiAxLzIgY3VwIG9mIDkw+EYgd2F0ZXIg
>Zm9yIDE1IG1pbiBiZWZvcmUgYWRkaW5nIHRvIHRoZSB3b3J0Lg0KRmVybWVudGF0
>aW9uIGJlZ2FuIHF1aWNrbHkgKHdpdGhpbiAzIGhvdXJzKSBhbmQgYWxvdCBvZiBj

	Watch your language young man!  I claim to be fairly
thick-skinned but that's pushing it.

>cmFwIGJsZXcgb3V0IG9mIG15DQoxIiBibG93b2ZmIHR1YmUgKGFwcHJveCAyIHF1
>YXJ0cyBibG93b2ZmKS4NCg0KTm93IHRoZSBwcm9ibGVtOg0KICAgICBJIG5vdGlj
>ZWQgdGhhdCB0aGUgYmxvd29mZiBzdGFnZSBoYWQgcHJldHR5IG11Y2ggc3RvcHBl
>ZCBhcyBvZiBsYXN0DQpuaWdodCAoTW9uLikuIEkgcmVwbGFjZWQgdGhlIGJsb3dv
>ZmYgdHViZSB3aXRoIGEgZmVybWVudGF0aW9uIGxvY2ssIGJ1dCBpdA0Kbm93IGFw
>cGVhcnMgYXMgaWYgZmVybWVudGF0aW9uIGhhcyBzdG9wcGVkIGNvbXBsZXRlbHks
>IGllIEkgZG9uJ3Qgc2VlIGJ1YmJsZXMNCmNvbWluZyB0aHJvdWdoIHRoZSBsb2Nr
>LiAgTXkgcHJldmlvdXMgYmF0Y2ggd2FzIGEgc3RvdXQga2l0IGFuZCBmZXJtZW50
>YXRpb24NCnNlZW1lZCB0byBjb250aW51ZSB0aHJvdWdoIHRoZSBsb2NrIGZvciBh
>dCBsZWFzdCBhIGdvb2Qgd2VlayBhZnRlciByZW1vdmluZw0KdGhlIGJsb3dvZmYu
>IE15IGNhcmJveSBpcyBsb2NhdGVkIGluIGEgY2xvc2V0IHdoaWNoIGtlZXBzIGl0
>IGF0IGFib3V0IDc0+EYuDQpJcyB0aGlzIG5vcm1hbD8gIFNob3VsZCBJIHdhaXQg
>YmVmb3JlIGJvdHRsaW5nIG9yIGdvIGFoZWFkIGlmIHRoZQ0KZmVybWVudGF0aW9u
>IGhhcyBzdG9wcGVkPyAgQWZ0ZXIgb25seSAzIGRheXM/ICBQbGVhc2UsIG9oIHZl
>dGVyYW5zIG9mDQpob21lYnJldywgcGFzcyBkb3duIGFueSB3aXNkb20geW91IG1h
>eSBoYXZlIG9uIHRoaXMgc3ViamVjdC4gSSBhbSBiZWNvbWluZw0KcXVpdGUgY29u
>ZnVzZWQvZnJ1c3RyYXRlZCBzaW5jZSBJIGZlZWwgbGlrZSBJIGFtIHN0aWxsIHNo
>b290aW5nIGluIHRoZSBkYXJrDQp3aXRoIGVhY2ggc3RlcC4gVGhhbmtzIQ0KDQpD
>aHJpcyBTZWlkZXJzIChTRUlERVJTQEhBTkRJLk1FRC5VVEFILkVEVSkNCg0K

	Hmmm.  This sounds like a good recipe.  Maybe you should
substitute 2 oz of ThoE RTOHosehqKJOHlke instead of 1 1/2 oz of
YmVmb3JlIGJvdHRsaW as you mention above.  Otherwise, I am really
not sure what your problem is.

Good Luck!  I look forward to more of your posts!  ;-)

D.

- -- 
Diane Palme
Department Engineer, Central Inspection
Allen-Bradley Co.
(414) 382-2617
dspalme at mke.ab.com

		" I have found that it is much easier to fake an
		  orgasm than to pretend to like basketball. "

Oh yeah, um, what I say is my opinion, um, what I think are my own ideas, uh,
Allen-Bradley has nothing to do with them, uh, yeah.  That's about it.

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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 06:45:04 PDT
From: 15-Oct-1993 0941 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Carboy "box" / Rock Bock

>Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 09:22:22 EDT
>From: Matthew Evans <matt at cadif.cornell.edu>
>Subject: Re:Carboy handles: A Better Solution?

>But what made this 
>carboy even better was that it had its own wooden crate that provides a great 
>way to lift the carboy when full.  The way the thing is built it also protects 

What I use is an old milk crate.  This works nicely for handling full carboys
and usually one get get milk crates for nuthin' if you look hard enough (or
at Kmart for $4).

>Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 10:05:39 -0400
>From: Jim Frost <jimf at centerline.com>
>Subject: Rolling Rock Boch
>
>Anyone else try Rolling Rock Boch yet?  If not, do so -- nice color,
>taste and aftertaste.

Yes, just tried it this past Tuesday night.  Not bad stuff, IMO.  To me, it
tasted quite similar to Miller's answer to the Microbreweries (what was the
name of that brew?).  It hardly, IMO, qualifies as a Bock though!

- ---
JC ferguson
Digital
ferguson at zendia.dec.com

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Date: 15 Oct 93 09:49:37-0400
From: ROBERT.URWILER at sprint.sprint.com
Subject: Transporting Homebrew 

I have recently bottled my first two batches of homebrew - one a light
pilsner and the other a bitter ale.  I would like to transport about a case
of these bottles to Thanksgiving dinner (about a 7 1/2 hour car ride).
Is there any danger in terms of exploding bottles during a long trip
such as this?  Also, assuming the sediment becomes disturbed during the
ride, how long should I wait for settlement before opening?

Any tips for protection during transportation would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Robert Urwiler


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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 09:25:17 -0500
From: trl at photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
Subject: Not Legal Everywhere

>making beer and wine for personal comsumption is legal is all 50 states. 
>(ed. true yet?)

No, not true yet.  In Missouri we are still dangerous criminals producing 
powerful, mood-altering drugs.  Let's do keep our facts straight.

	t

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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 10:55:05 -0500 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: 5 micron filters

> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 15:38:25 EDT
> From: cmryglot at disney.CV.COM (Chuck Mryglot X6024)
> Subject: filters
> 
> 
> To those who filter:
> 
>     Is a 5 micron filter small enough to bother with?  
> 5 micron filters are ease to find but I can't seem to find any 
> that are smaller.   Sears has 5 micron filters for $4.00 each.
> 
>    Is it best to use the fiber filter or the resin, or does it 
> matter?   Also, does filtering have any effect on carbonation?
> 

I have filtered a little bit of beer.  I still dont filter most of 
my beer.  Yeast cells are around 5-10 microns, so a 5 micron filter
will remove most if not all of the yeast.  I would avoid the filters
sold in HW stores, they will be poor in efficiency, and basically 
become a $4 one shot deal.  I have used one as a one shot deal for
a real coarse filtering to remove hop pellets.  Invest in a reuseable
5 micron polypro filter from the filter store, 1-800-828-1494. Costs
about $25, good for at least 200 gallons.  Filter flat beer, then 
force carbonate.  Filtering has no effect on carbonation provided you
use forced CO2.

If you want to remove protein haze, and reduce head retention, you can
buy a sterile filter of .5microns, but it will cost ~$32.

Good brewing,
Jim Busch


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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 06:49:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul deArmond <paulf at henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Subject: Mashout

As I recall, the Great Mashout debate started with a question about the
necessity of killing off enzymes at the end of mashing.  It has now taken
a turn into sparging technique.

I would most humbly and obsequiously submit that stuck sparges and
denaturing enzymes are different critters.

How one handles their sparging is dependent on a large number of
variables:  types of grain, crush, mechanical details of the mash/lauter
tun, even (yes) temperature.  Of all of these, the mechanical details of
the mash/lauter tun are probably going to be the most influential for
beers made from mostly barley malt.  High proportions of gooey, floury,
pasty sticky grains will make the details of the sparging setup even more
important.

At the risk of becoming highly technical, allow me to submit the following
High-Tech (tm) illustration:

   |XXXXXXXXXXX|
   |XXXXXXXXXXX|
   |XXXXXXXXXXX|    <- Container full of cooked grass seed and water
   |XXXXXXXXXXX|
   |XXXXXXXXXXX|
   |- - - - - -|    <- The perforated thingy
   |________ __|
           | |      <- The place where the watery stuff falls out

There are a great number of different sizes and shapes of containers to
hold the cooked grass seed:  garbage cans, Alaskan (and the smaller
Texas-size) construction helmets, kitchen sinks, nail kegs, buckets, foot
basins, Rhode Island swimming pools, water beds, etc.  Likewise a great
number of perforated thingies are also used:  soil pipe, panty-hose (both
used and new), buckets that have been used for target practice, hair-nets,
old socks, venetian blinds, storm grates and clever specially designed
appliances that are made in Mexican sweat-shops and then marketed here
with cheesy little "Made in USA" stickers on them.

Most people use some kind of hose where the watery stuff falls out, though
in very backward areas (such as Chicago and San Francisco), it is just
allowed to fall on the floor.  This "drop and mop" technique is claimed to
yeild incredibly high extract rates. 

Given the large range of equipment in use, it seems only reasonable to
this author that there will be some variation in practice, including
adjusting the temperature of the cooked grass seed before trying to get
the watery stuff to fall out the hole in the bottom.  What this has to do
with killing off the enzymes (which look like little people in tights with
Pac-Man heads according to one widely published work) continues to elude
me.  I personally don't like to do it, because their pitiful little
screams upset me.  Others with harder hearts may choose to do differently.

Paul de Armond


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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 11:15:03 EDT
From: bszymcz%ulysses at relay.nswc.navy.mil (Bill Szymczak)
Subject: 7 gal carboys, racking canes, SG & DMEDME&SG

David Atkins writes:

>Page sold a 7 gal. in lieu of 6.5 which had sold out.  As posted
>in an earlier HBList, the opennings of the 7 gal are too narrow to use a carboy
>cap in starting a siphon.

Although the orange carboy caps are too large for the 7 gallon
carboy they can be made air-tight, to start a siphon, by wraping duct
tape tightly around them.

>airlock.  The above supplier also carries long racking canes which will fit 7
>gal carboys.

Another option here is to use the 3/8" coper tubing.  It can be
shaped, is nearly indestructable, 
sterilized by heat by baking in the oven, and is exactly the
same size as the plastic ones sold in homebrew stores.

For those asking about DME effects on specific gravity, 1 pound of
DME in 1 gallon of water yealds an SG of about 1.042.  Therefore,
for example 1 pound added to 6 gallons of water will increase the
SG by .042 / 6 = .007 points.

Bill Szymczak

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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 10:18 CDT
From: David Atkins <ATKINS at macc.wisc.edu>
Subject: bad COPS & bananas

Hello,
 
I missed the COPS episode ala Elliot Ness cracking down on the hapless
homebrewer.  I agree with Russell Gelinas that homebrewers should take an active
role in educating whenever the opportunity arises, I question the practicallity
of a nationwide PR campaign.  Perhaps, thinking globally and acting locally
would serve the purpose better.  Local brewclubs can advertise events in local
media & maybe get some newspaper/tv exposer to boot.  Clubs could draft letters
or complaint to deliver to both the local station airing COPs and the shows
producers.  The AHA could do some PR work, having pr/information experts and
spokespersons ready to field reporter queries or to provide talking head sound
bites to local or national tv crews.  But to publicize outside of addressing the
producers of COPS and the local stations that televised the program could be
misguided.  How many people saw the show?  How many people even remember seeing
the show?  Unless there is a groundswell of prohibitionist fervor threatening
your home brewer or local supply store, any negative publicity or perputuated
misunderstandings is probably over-rated.
 
Well, off my soap box and into the kitchen...Banana esters.  I have a brown ale
with slight banana esters (used Yeast Labs British Ale).  Are these esters a
regular characteritic of the yeast, a result fermentation at 69-73 F ambient, or
both?
 
While I'm in the kitchen, is there any chance at all I could brew an extract
dopplebock & lager it in a cool basement on a concrete floor?  I want to make a
dopplebock for a gradutation party "The Matriculator" but I don't have a spare
'fridge to lager the bottled products.  Has anyone tried this?  Any minimum
temps. I should pray for?  The current temp. ranges from 59-62F and I it should
get cooler as the sun wanes.
 
Thanks for any comments and advice concerning homebrew pr and bananas and
dopplebock.
 
David Atkins
UW-Madison
atkins at macc.wisc.edu
 
 

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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 11:47:18 -0400
From: jclayton at TACOM-EMH1.Army.Mil (CLAYTON Joseph A Jr)
Subject: formula request


Greetings,

I would like to second Jonathan Knight's request (HBD 1247) for a way 
to calculate the O.G. with malt extracts.  As an avid user of 
equations and a terrible deriver of equations, I'd like to be able to
solve for any one of the three factors, quantity of malt extract,
volume of water, and O.G.

By the way, is there any NET consensus on the result of one pound of
DME and LME in a gallon of water?  I've seen a range of 1.035 to 1.045
for DMS and a range of 1.032 to 1.040 for LME.  What's up?

Cheers,
Joe


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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 09:04:53 MST
From: birkelan at adtaz.sps.mot.com (Joel Birkeland)
Subject: rotten egg smell in fermentation

Tony wrote:

>This is approaching Frequently Asked Question statuts on HBD, so
>here's a brief explanation.

(brief explanation deleted)

Thanks for the explanation, Tony.  I appreciate your response, but
I guess I mis-stated my question.

What I was interested in was why this particular batch should smell
like H2S.  I used Wyeast 1056, which is what I have used quite a bit
in the past, without any H2S smell.  The only thing I changed was the 
malt, which was DeWolf-Cosyns Pale malt.  The yeast starter did not 
smell like H2S, but the primary fermentation did.  This leads me to
speculate that it is not the yeast, but rather something to do with
the formulation of the wort.

Any takers?

Joel

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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 09:20:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: gummitch at techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Re: Flaked Maize

Tom Sauret writes:
> 
>     Recently a I tried to add flaked maize to my wort, but I was 
> unable to get the maize to pass the iodine test.  I followed the 
> instructions from THE JOY OF HOME BREWING, but after two hours gave 
> up trying to pass the iodine test.  The beer has been in  the bottles 
> a week now and evrything appears fine.  Has anyone else run into this 
> problem?   What did I do wrong?  Thanks, Tom Sauret
> 
Without checking TJOHB for the reference, it sounds as though your
problem was adding "flaked maize to my wort".  Did you really add it to
your wort? and when did you do an iodine test?

If you're adding flaked maize to an extract-based beer, try doing a
little infusion before adding the syrup.  Take your flaked maize, et al,
put it in a cheesecloth bag and soak at about 150F for 1/2 hour or.
Then rinse it with hot water, save the resulting liquor, and add your
extract to that.  Flaked maize shouldn't cause *any* problems with
starch; in fact, George Fix recommends adding it late during the mashing
cycle in an all-grain beer.

How does Charlie phrase it? "Chill out and suck some brew"?

- --Jeff




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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 11:28:00 CST
From: Montgomery_John at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil
Subject: alcohol percentages, too


  I have a question that is a tangent to Brian Moore's posting regarding 
  varying alcohol percentages in beers distributed to different states.

  If the maximum percentage of alcohol allowed in a beer distributed to 
  my state is 3.5, for instance, what about the beer that might be 
  produced in a brewpub in my state? Must they conform to the same 
  percentages as the distributors or are there exceptions for an "on 
  premises only" beer?

  Just curious...


jm
montgomery_john at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil

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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 93 13:22:59 EDT
From: gorman at aol.com
Subject: Flaming Dr. Pepper

Shawn Nunley writes:

>Flaming Dr. Pepper from Hell

>This drink requires a shot glass and a tumbler style glass.  Fill the
>shot glass with Amerretto (sp?) and the tumbler half full with beer.  The
>idea is to have just enough beer to cover the shot glass when you drop
>it in the tumbler.  Now, light the Ameretto (2nd try at spelling) and let
>it get pretty warm, not too hot.  When the time is right, drop the shot
>glass in the tumbler.  That's right, drop the whole shot glass in the
tumbler
>so that it is standing up on the bottom of the glass.  Now drink the whole
>thing as fast as you can.  The Ameretto will pour out with the beer yet
>will remain kind of seperated.  The resulting taste is remarkably close to
>a Dr. Pepper.  This is a fast drunk, BTW.  Hangover City too.

I'd always seen 151 rum added atop the Amaretto to aid lighting. And let me
second the opinion of its similarity to Dr. Pepper in taste. Quite startling
when you first have one. You'll definitely not want to waste any microbrewed
beer on this though ;>

Bill Gorman

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1249, 10/18/93