FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Breweries & Pubs in Manchester UK (Al Marshall)
  malt powder (Jill Martz)
  Bottle labels (Dion Hollenbeck)
  PH malt / acid rest /  carboy storage (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
  Brewpubs in San Diego? (Jan Holloway)
  Re: Homebrew Club Gone Stale? Probably not. ("Roger Deschner  ")
  Re: Post-boil wort handling question. (korz)
  Evergreens in beer (kstiles)
  Re: Belgian Special B  (Matthew Rowley) (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Basement Brewing (fjdobner)
  CNY Clubs (Barrett Peck)
  Wyeast Packages And Bursting (John DeCarlo                             )
  Hops FAQ, Postmortem (npyle)
  Beer Head/ Best Bitter Recipe/Pnts AAU Calcs? (COYOTE)
  Plumbing (npyle)
  Another immersion chiller ("Steven W. Smith")
  Keeping the club healthy (WESTEMEIER)
  The Two Millers (Phil Brushaber)
  California Common (John_D._Sullivan.wbst311)
  informal get together in San Diego Dec 7-10? (Robert Schultz)
  Re: Hops FAQ (Jim Busch)
  Oatmeal Stout results! (Jim Graham)
  Brass in the boil ("Palmer.John")
  one-pot brews (RONALD DWELLE)
  sterilization options/procedures (Y Y Zed)
  Frogs?/Cider/Scotch Ales (COYOTE)
  Counterflow chillers (Jim Cave)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 08:22:30 -0800 (PST)
From: alm at ibeam.jf.intel.com (Al Marshall)
Subject: Breweries & Pubs in Manchester UK

If anyone could be of help suggesting breweries or pubs worthy of
visit in the vicinity of Manchester, please reply to:

	ketans at ibeam.intel.com

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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 11:41:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Jill Martz <SAL_MARTZ at sals.edu>
Subject: malt powder

We are relativey new at homebrewing and I was wondering if anyone could
tell me about diastatic malt powder. Can it be used in homebrewing?
What would be the effect?
Reply to: SAL_MARTZ at SALS.EDU
Thanks...Jill

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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 08:42:42 PST
From: megatek!hollen at uunet.UU.NET (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Bottle labels


I would like to make some labels for my bottles, but a little more
creatively than I currently make with WordPerfect.  A friend has Corel
Draw and that would be fine, but I do not have several hundred dollars
to spend on software.  Can anyone suggest software for DOS or Windows,
(or even X for that matter) which would be suitable to make *really*
nice bottle labels with?  Must have lots of fonts available and it
would be really nice to be able to fit text into any shape (like in a
crescent shaped banner).

thanks,
dion


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Date: Mon,  1 Nov 93 10:51:37 EST
From: Lee=A.=Menegoni at nectech.com
Subject: PH malt / acid rest /  carboy storage

RE:  PH malt  
The poster claimed to have problems getting his Ph in the appropriate
range even with the addition of a large amount of gypsum.

I am no chemist but this sounds like a water chemistry problem.  I don't know 
if the term "buffering" describes what is happening but something in the water
is preventing the gypsum from lowering the Ph.  

Brewers I know of with similar, but not as severe, problems with their
private well water do the following.
 
Boil 7-8 gallons of water the night before brewing.
Let it cool over nite and let the percipitate settle too.
Siphon all but the last couple inches the next morning.
They also use a gallon of distilled water in the mash and the rest from the
 preboiled and siphoned suply thus diluting the offending ingredients.
Don't sparge to the limit, 1.010 temp adjusted, to limit tannin extraction. 

They have also had water analysis done and brew styles that are appropriate
for the water chemistry.  There are ways of getting the water analysis done
for free or near free.  Many plumbing supply stores provised this service
if you are shopping for a water treatment system.
 
Acid rest:
This step is described by Noonan in Brewing Lagers, most texts provide this
information for theoretical completeness, it is rarley done in commercial 
brewing.  The recent beer styles book on Wheat Beers also includes a 
discussion of multiple steps of acid rest as important in producing certain
compontents of a wheat beers flavor and aroma.  These all involve ezymatic
reactions resulting in the generation of specific acids.

Carboy storage:
After cleaning I cover the carboy opening with a sandwich bag held on with an
elastic band.  I cover the carboy with a second large bag and store it on an
open shelf.

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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 12:20:29 -0500
From: holloway at ezmail2.ucs.indiana.edu (Jan Holloway)
Subject: Brewpubs in San Diego?

Greetings, brewfolk. I'm attending a conference in San Diego at the end of
this week (though most of next) and would greatly appreciate your
recommendations for brewpubs and microbreweries in the area. 

Thanks in advance! 

- --Jan


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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 11:00:29 CST
From: "Roger Deschner " <U52983%UICVM at UIC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Club Gone Stale? Probably not.

Your club is probably doing just fine, as long as you keep everything
in some kind of beery perspective.

The Chicago Beer Society *STARTED* in 1977 as a beer drinking and
socializing club, and wound up with a bunch of us weirdo homebrewers
joining and taking over. We haven't taken over completely, and probably
never will - the Chicago Beer Society continues to bill itself as a beer
appreciation AND homebrewing club. The serious homebrewers operate as a
committee within the club - with a lot of overlap with the aficionado
segment.

Is this an entirely peaceful arrangement? No. There are periodic
disagreements about the future direction of the club, and the answer to
the question: "Which way will it go?" is usually "Yes." And finally, are
we the ideal model? Probably not. But we are quite comfortable with the
fairly large number of Chicago Beer Society events which are not
specifically related to homebrew, as long as things stay in balance. For
instance, this month, November, we are having our annual homebrew
competition, the AHA-sanctioned Spooky Brew Review, and we are also
having our annual International Tasting. I'll be judging at one, and
indulging at the other.

I know I haven't answered your question; in fact, I may have made it more
difficult to answer. Just another perspective, though.

Roger Deschner, Member, Chicago Beer Society.

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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 11:26 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Re: Post-boil wort handling question.

Michael writes:

>I've been brewing (occasionally) for about three years now.  Just about
>every batch I've ever made has had an off taste (except for a particluarly
>memorable batch of Bruce's Dogbolter during my "kit" days).  I started 
>out with new equipment and have good cleaning practices...I sanitize
>anything that touches the wort/beer.  

<snip>

>After the boil, I let things settle for about 15 minutes.  I then strain
>the wort through cheescloth in a colander which is suspended over my
>plastic bucket primary.  The straining through the cheescloth takes a
>long time since I usually use pelletized hops which combined with the
>other solids quickly make up a semi-impermeable barrier.  I then let
>it cool overnight and pitch a starter in the morning.  I transfer into
>a carboy after the kreusening settles down.  I usually bottle after
>the bubbling through my airlock stops.

<snip>

It would help make it easier to assess the source your off-flavor if you had
described it a bit more.  In any event, I see two areas in your technique
that could cause off-flavors: 1) Hot-Side Aeration (HSA) and 2) slow cooling.

Both of these problems can be solved simply by building/buying a wort chiller.
You should really avoid aeration of wort until you have cooled it below 80F
(of course some oxidation still occurs, even at 80F, but 80F seems to be a
generally accepted temperature).  Oxidation of hot wort will give you off-
flavors and darken the beer.  The off-flavors associated with HSA are
sherry-like and wet cardboard.  The long time between the time that your
wort stops boiling and the time that it drops below 140F is not good since
DMS (a cooked-corn-like aroma) is being produced while the wort is between
boiling and 140F.  Finally, the long time between the wort dropping below
140F (or so) and the time that the yeast are really going is an invitation
for infection.  No matter how well you sanitize, you probably cannot
sterilize your equipment (or the air around it) and something gets in.  If
you can have your cultured yeast eat up all the sugars and make some alcohol
and lower the pH before the uninvited visitors get established, you can
keep the off-flavors from nasties below the flavor threshold.  A long, slow
cooling of the wort is just an invitation for the nasties to get a jump on
your yeast and to create enough off-flavors to be perceptable.  Get a
wort chiller.

Al.

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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 12:35:19 EST
From: franc!kstiles at woomera.att.com
Subject: Evergreens in beer


There has been quite a bit of discussion about spruce beer lately,
with comments about hemlock (the evergreen) tea, and most recently
an interesting botany lesson from Edward F. Loewenstein
<SNREDLOW at MIZZOU1.missouri.edu> on the Pinaceae family.  Every
year when I make my annual Spruce beer I wonder about other 
evergreens - pines, hemlock, and especially fir.  I have some
balsalm fir and Douglas fir, but since all references are to
Spruce beer, I've confined my experiments to the picea genus -
Blue, Norway, White and Black Spruces.  I never tried the spruce 
extract that you can buy;  maybe too much of that can give you a
solvent taste, but it is virtually impossible to get anything like
that with fresh sprigs.  Most of the flavor seems to be extracted
by the boil - I don't notice much affect from late kettle additions
or "dry sprucing".  You can definitely make a beer that's too
sprucy, but it's not unlike making a beer that's too hoppy - a lot
depends on the preference of the drinker, and in any case the solution
to  "too sprucy" is the same as for "too hoppy":  dilution with
a more conventional beer.

Any insight on the use of evergreens besides spruce?  Will I be 
forced to pilot brew a balsalm fir ale?  What would Euell Gibbons
have done?

 -Kevin Stiles

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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 14:16:15 EST
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Re: Belgian Special B  (Matthew Rowley)

Brian comments that Special B would probably make a good start on a
Scotch Ale recipe.  Well, I had the same thought recently.  Tasting
notes follow.

Scottish 120/70

Made 3 gallons 120/- ("Wee Heavy") and 4.5 gallons 70/-

12 lbs Pale Ale Malt (Hugh Baird)
2 lbs Munich Malt (DeWolf-Cosyns)
1 lb Special B (DeWolf-Cosyns)

Single temp infusion mash  at  67C for 1 hour (1 quart H20/lb)

120/-:

    Sparge 4 gallons in two batches.  I drained the mash tun
    once, then added a couple gallons of 77C water and drained it again.

    Boil 1 hour, adding 1 oz Goldings at beginning, and finishing with 1/2
    oz Goldings (10 min). (Target IBUs 35) O.G. 1096.  Force chill, pitch
    YeastLab Irish Ale yeast from 1qt starter.  Fermented at about 55F.
    At 2 weeks, gravity was down to 1032, and I pitched the slurry from
    another quart starter of YeastLab London Ale yeast.  Tasted nicely
    malty and alcoholic.  I'll probably pitch new yeast at bottling
    time, as beer this alcoholic seems to have trouble carbonating.

70/-: 
    Sparge 5.5 gallons (normal technique, keeping water about 1" above
    grain).

    Boil 1 hour, with 1 oz Goldings at start and 1/2 oz at finish.
    (Target IBUs 24) O.G. 1038.  Fermented at "cellar temp" (65F?) for
    2 weeks, then "mini-kegged" with gelatin finings, as it seemed to
    still be a little cloudy.  Finished at 1010.

    Tasting notes: nice malty notes, with a medium-low hop bitterness
    (probably a little high for the style).  Color medium amber.  Easy
    to drink a lot of it.  

    I served this at a party for a Scottish friend who is leaving
    town, and I was a little nervous about its reception.  However,
    they thought it was pretty closely on target, although the color
    was light.  I got compliments on the beer from all the Brits
    (Scottish and English) present.

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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 13:30 CST
From: fjdobner at ihlpa.att.com
Subject: Basement Brewing

Mathew Harper asked for tips on planning an area in your basement for
dedicated brewing. I do not have a dedicated area, but rather serves
several purposes. One of the things I did put in was a range hood.
I had heard from other homebrewers that they spend hours wiping down
walss from all the moisture that is generated from the boil. The
moisture is an open invitation for mildew and all types of creapy
crawlers to take root in the floor joists.

I went out looking for a range hood at a garage sale and found one for
$10 at the first place I stopped. I suspended it from the ceiling with
cables. I used a dryer vent package that includes the 4" hose and the
actual vent itself that goes to the outside. 

I used it fro the first time two weeks ago. Works like a champ. 
I really recommend it. Write me if you want to know more.

Frank

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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 12:21:07 -0800
From: bpeck at ash.cisco.com (Barrett Peck)
Subject: CNY Clubs

Brewers -

I am a relatively new brewer having made my first beer last month.  I'd
like to get more
info and understand more of what I'm doing and what the beer is doing
throughout the
process.  Is there a club in Syracuse, NY of Brewers?  If so, please let me
know.  This appears
to be something I'd like to get better at doing.

- -- Barrett Peck --
bpeck at cisco.com


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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 15:48:28 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Wyeast Packages And Bursting

Drew Lynch mentioned he would be curious to see if the Wyeast package would 
burst.  Thus my story.

I forgot about a package of Wyeast American Ale (don't ask me how, but I have 
small children).  I ended up using some of my existing yeast stock on that 
batch.  Two weeks ago, cleaning up around the computer (I keep them warm by 
wrapping in a towel and keeping near the computer until they get big), I found
one that I had "burst" three and a half months earlier.  "What the hey", I 
said, and pitched it into a starter anyway.  The package was *less* puffed up 
than it would normally be at max--don't ask me why.  The starter tasted and 
smelled fine and the beer tasted fine going into the secondary.  I suspect the
yeast suffered but pulled through like troopers.  I *don't* think the current 
packages will explode under normal temperatures and pressures.

John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo at mitre.org
If I were you, who would be reading this sentence?


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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 14:01:35 MST
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: Hops FAQ, Postmortem

This is regarding the recently published Hops FAQ.  I welcome all comments so
that I may take one more shot at revising it before turning it over to the
archives.  Keep in mind, though, that it is a list of Frequently Asked
Questions.  The answers are generally available around the net, and were
(mostly) NOT just dreamed up by me.  I tried to present the "net.wisdom" side
of most things, which doesn't imply, by any stretch of the imagination, that
it is correct in every aspect.  Most of the answers have been considered
helpful my many, but in need of some discussion and changing.  That is the
purpose of active involvement in the HomeBrew Digest, not the purpose of the
FAQ.  Take it for what it is and discuss controversial topics on the HBD.  I
will be glad to discuss anything and everything in the FAQ, but I may or may
not wish to make changes to it (editorial privilege?).

I welcome anyone who wants to take it, once archived, and revise it to your
heart's content.  I realize it is not perfect; never will be.  It is the best
that my current time and resources allow and I am happy with it.  Comments
welcome, but see my side of it.  As always we thank you for your support!

I should mention that Glenn Tinseth from The Hop Source, unbeknownst (is that a
word?) to me, wrote the bulk, if not all, of Part 1/5.  He was not credited,
but he will be in Rev. 3.  Sorry, Glenn.  My fault for not keeping better care
of the sources of the info.  I hope you don't feel too ripped off.  In
hindsight, separating the credits from each passage may not have been the best
idea I've ever had.

Cheers,
Norm

P.S. To anyone who may consider doing something like this:  I learned as much
about hops in the last 2 months as I did in the last 2 years.  Lots of work
but worth every minute.

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Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1993 13:03:22 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Beer Head/ Best Bitter Recipe/Pnts AAU Calcs?

******************
Cisco (John Francisco)'s new sig.line says:
>May your beer give you great head!!!!

*   Now that's kinky!  I find it works better the other way around.
*   Question:  Does "liquid male extract" increase head retention?
*****************
Also-  Thanks to the JOKER for offering such a splendid accounting
of a typical workday in the life of Wyllie Coyote.  I just hate it
when I fall to the bottom of those canyons, especially when a big
rock- or worse- LARGE pot of boiling wort- falls on my head.
You think all that sounds bad-  you should see what ACME has offered
me to "smooth" my way through a brewday. Rocket powered Racking canes!
*****************
Ok, but really.  I Brewed a Best Bitter yesterday...following (roughly)
a recipe for an IPA type bitter I posted the other day.
    for 12 gallons

Best Bitter:
    14# 2 Row Pale malt (only had american on hand.)
    1.5# 60L Xtal
    .3 # Victory Malt
    .5 # Wheat malt

BOIL:   2 oz Chinook (13% alpha)
        2 oz Centennial (10%)
        2 oz Cascade (7.3%)
These were all flake hops stored in freezer  ~ 2 months (or more)

FINISH: 2 oz Cascade- homegrown.  Smells YUMMY and fresh.  Good xtal devpt.

German Alt Yeast (dregs from previous ferements)

OG 1.035.  Temp 25 deg C.

Question:  In calculating points what grains are included, or do you just
use the WHOLE grain bill?  I can see wheat, and munich contributing
fermentables, but  what about things like chocolate which don't?

Calculation:    35 sp.gr. x 12 gall.   / 16.33 #'s = 25.72 pts/lb
Is this right?  It seems reasonable to me.  That's within the range I
expect from my cooler/lauter tun.  But I'm not sure If I got the equation
right.  (I always get confused...maybe ACME has a kit...hmm...scratch chin)

AAU's...(13 x 2 )+ 20 + 14.6 = 60.6  => 25.25 AAU  (5 gallon conversion)
QUESTION:  Is this right?  I need to dig up the HopsFaq and check.

This is gonna be one bitter mo-fo.  But ooooooh my house smelled delicious
after the 1.5 hr boil!    Everything is hoppily underway this morning.

I think I need to try a RauchBier before I retire the BBQ&Smoker for the 
winter.  Plus it seems a fitting celebration to my folks house surviving
the Altadena fire last week. (what a nightmare!) That'll be MUCH stronger!
/***********************************************************************\
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ John (The Coyote) Wyllie SLK6P at cc.usu.edu ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
\* I finally got everything all together, then I forgot where I put it!*/
  *********************************************************************

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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 14:31:58 MST
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: Plumbing

Well, it appears we have a real HBD plumbing problem on our hands.  I scanned
the HBDs for the last seven days and I was quite impressed.  I expected to see
at least 25% wasted space (wasted space defined as articles which apply not at
all to homebrewing).  The beer drinks thread qualifies (who would _really_ do
any of this to your homebrew?), as do the complaints about people's .sig files.
Those two topics were virtually all of the badness on the HBD recently.  I
expect that amounted to less than 10% of the total HBD bandwidth, a wonderful
S/N ratio, IMHO.

So, what do we do?  Quit posting junk like this one?  Maybe.  Two-a-days are
possible, although I don't know Rob's limitations nor inclinations.  I did
notice his change to Six-a-weeks.  That is a good start and it may prove to be
all that is necessary.  It is the brewing season and that increases brewing
questions, thus HBD traffic.  I suggest no panics yet, use email whenever
general interest is not served, and wait.  I suppose we could ask everyone to
use as much self-restraint as possible with things like "Are there any good
pubs in XXX?", but as I said before the S/N ratio is still quite good.  Long
 .sigs, orgasmic ones or not, should be avoided whenever possible.  Other than
that, I say, "Keep up the good work!".

Old Lucifer update:  OG 1085; SG 1035 after 6 weeks.  I may rename it Old
Energizer Bunny (keeps going, and going,...).  Pitched dry frog yeast this
weekend (I'm a jerk, I know).  Anyone want 5 gallons of all-grain liquid
candy with 6% alcohol?  I want my carboy back!

Norm

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Date: 01 Nov 1993 16:46:54 -0700 (MST)
From: "Steven W. Smith" <SMITH_S at gc.maricopa.edu>
Subject: Another immersion chiller

  I've been lurking for awhile, so I thought I'd finally break down and be 
sociable. I recently built my first immersion chiller, and it occurred to 
me that I may have done something marginally innovative (it could happen).
  The chillers I've seen for sale seem designed to sit in the bottom of a pot.
Mine hangs over either side, so that the coil is suspended near the top - 
where it's hot.  The idea being that the cooled wort will fall to the bottom 
and encourage circulation, giving faster cooling without stirring.  I've only 
used it once, but it worked well (faster than a bathtub full o' icewater).

  For your viewing pleasure, I include the crudest possible ascii rendering of 
said chiller.  It can be adjusted for different pot sizes by stretching or 
compressing the coils (refrigeration copper tubing).

   /\       /\
__/  \00000/  \__

  _,_/|
  \o.O;   Steven W. Smith, Programmer/Analyst
 =(___)=  Glendale Community College, Glendale Az. USA 
    U     SMITH_S at GC.BITNET
          smith_s at gc.maricopa.edu
          Hoppy trails. (ouch)

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Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1993 18:35:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: WESTEMEIER at delphi.com
Subject: Keeping the club healthy

Andy Kligerman asked for input about keeping a homebrew
club healthy.
 
Our club is very healthy, if growth is a good measure.
The Bloatarian Brewing League (of Cincinnati) was founded
by Ray Spangler, 1987 Homebrewer of the Year.
 
We are extraordinarily lucky to have the support of the
Oldenberg microbrewery and Drawbridge Estate complex.
They give us a meeting room each month at no charge, in
return for putting on a couple of homebrew demonstrations
each year for the Oldenberg Beer Camp.
 
It seems to me that the best method for keeping a club
from degenerating into a beer drinking club is to have a
well planned program for every meeting.  The socializing
part is great, but there has to be more.  We occasionaly
do a "Dr. Beer" seminar to demonstrate specific off-flavors
in beer, helping to educate members' taste buds.  We also
have an organized tasting each month, wherein members
bring samples of their latest brews which are tasted by
a panel of experts (and anyone else who cares to participate)
with feedback provided as a distinct part of the meeting.
 
That lets everyone in on the secrets of evaluating beers,
provides a useful function to keep the experienced members
from being bored, educates the newcomers, and keeps things
fairly organized.
 
We also invite local merchants to attend and give tastings
of special beers, which is great advertising for them (and
almost free) and a treat for us (as well as being educational).
 
We have various members give presentations on equipment
construction, describe specific beer styles, discuss
yeast culturing, etc.
 
Road trips are another great tool.  We plan on a meeting
place, then carpool to interesting brewpubs or other places
of interest to homebrewers.  These are very informal, lots
of fun, and a nice supplement to meetings
 
It's also important to have something planned for each 
meeting that involves beginners as well as for the more 
advanced members.  That can be an activity related to 
identifying a specific problem in a beer or maybe something
about equipment or ingredients.
 
Make sure that your club leadership includes everyone in
discussions, as beginners can be intimidated by a lot of
the arcana that concern the more advanced brewers.  Try
to define highly technical terms the first time they are
used at each meeting, at least when you have newcomers
present.  Don't criticize the efforts of beginners, but
make them opportunities to suggest ways to improve.
 
Finally, use the mails.  We have an 8 page monthly
newsletter that covers lots of ground, but you can do
much the same thing with a single sheet of paper that
describes what went on at the last meeting (for those
who missed it) and what is planned for the next one.  Many
people need that kind of reminder between meetings.
 
Ed Westemeier
Cincinnati, Ohio
westemeier at delphi.com

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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 93 20:53:00 -0600
From: phil.brushaber at lunatic.metronet.com (Phil Brushaber)
Subject: The Two Millers



I have both of Dave Miller's books. He seems to have alternate
grain bills for Dopplebock in the two books. In one he suggests
100% Munich as the main grain, in the other he suggests about
80% Lager/Pilsner malt and 20% Munich (about 3 lbs Munich).
(and of course cara-pils and crystal).

I've been going with the Pilsner/Munich mix. Has anyone brewed
with 100% Munich? Flavor profile? Results? Warnings?



 ... All, known to his friends as Captain Capper!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11

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| UseNet, ILink, RIME, FIDO, Annex, Intelec, LuciferNet, PlanoNet, and more!|
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Date: 	Tue, 2 Nov 1993 06:14:00 PST
From: John_D._Sullivan.wbst311 at xerox.com
Subject: California Common

Hi all,
	I'm hoping someone has a good All-Grain recipe for St__m beer or
California Common Beer. Private E-mail please.  Thanks very much,
					John

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Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1993 08:24:09 -0600 (CST)
From: Robert Schultz <Robert.Schultz at usask.ca>
Subject: informal get together in San Diego Dec 7-10?

	Any of you folks out there planning to attend the CAUSE '93 conference
in San Diego on December 7-10, 1993?  If yes, email me and maybe we could get
together for brew or two.
	The conference is being held at the Sheraton on Harbor Island.
	I have extracted the list of brew pubs in the San Diego area (circa
1991 ?).  Any of you folks that are familiar with the area have any suggestions
of must see/don't waste your time brew pubs????

Comments appreciated.

Rob.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Robert.Schultz at usask.ca, University Studies Group, University of Saskatchewan~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ "I'm going off half-cocked? I'm going off half-cocked? ...                   ~
~  Well, Mother was right - You can't argue with a shotgun."     - Gary Larson ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 09:47:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Hops FAQ

Since this Hops thing is a FAQ, I feel obliged to put on my Monty Python act
and NIT, NIT....

> Subject: Hops FAQ, Part 5/5
> 
> Name:         CASCADE
> Grown:        US
> Profile:      spicy, floral, citrus (esp. grapefruit) aroma
> Typical use:  bittering, finishing, dry hopping for American style ales
> Example:      Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, Anchor Liberty Ale, Old Foghorn
> AA Range:     4.5 - 7%
> Substitute:   Centennial

Centennial is a great hop, adn certainly similar in some respects to Cascade,
but they are not really *substitutes*.  Centennial is much spicier, and 
contributes a different citrous essence to the beer.  I usually like to 
mix the two hops, and while Centennial is a pretty high alpha hop (~10%)
it can still be used as a dry hop quite successfully.
> 
> Name:         CRYSTAL (CFJ-HALLERTAU)
> Substitute:   Imported Hallertau, Mount Hood, Liberty.

"Imported Hallertau" does not mean much today.  The region the hop variety
is grown in is what counts, as "Hallertau" hops are grown all over Germany
as are Tettanger, hence the names, Hersbrueker Hallertau, Hallertau Hallertau,
Tettang Hallertau, Tettanger Tettanger, etc....I encourage brewers to use the
correct terminology, as it is a real difference which hop a brewer uses in
a  given recipe.
> 
> Name:         EAST KENT GOLDINGS
> Grown:        UK
> Profile:      rounded, pungent aroma

also "earthy"                               

> Typical use:  bittering, finishing, dry hopping for British style ales
> Example:      Young's Special London Ale, Samuel Smith's Pale Ale

LaChouffe!!

> AA Range:     ???

4-6%

> Substitute:   BC Goldings, English Fuggles

There is none!!

> Name:         HALLERTAU HERSBRUCKER

Reverse, HERSBRUCKER HALLERTAU
> Grown:        Germany
> Profile:      pleasant, mild aroma
earthy, can be quite spicey, ummmmmm, and quite aromatic, Pils anyone??
> Typical use:  finishing / dry hopping for German style lagers

only "German style lagers" brewed in the US are dry hopped :-) BTW, most
german lagers are finished at 15 minutes to end of boil, not at the very
end as many of us do.  This, in conjunction with the whirlpool, will add
bitterness, and aroma to the beers.  Many german brewers dislike the very
late additions of this hop.

> Example:      ???

Pils.

> AA Range:     3 - 5%
sometimes less than 3, I currently have 2.3-2.6
> 
> Name:         HALLERTAU MITTELFRUEH
> Example:      ???

Sam Adams

> 
> Name:         MT. HOOD
> Grown:        US
> Profile:      mild, clean aroma
> Typical use:  finishing / dry hopping for German style lagers
> Example:      ???

Mt Hood Ale??

> Name:         NORTHERN BREWER
> Grown:        UK, US, Germany (called Hallertau NB), and other areas
Now we got it right, Hallertau NB.  NB grown in the Hallertau region of
Germany.
>               (growing region affects profile greatly)
Exactly!!
> 
> Name:         SPALT
> Grown:        Germany/US
> Profile:      mild, pleasant, slightly spicy
> Typical use:  aroma/finishing/flavoring

Bittering too!!
> Example:      ???

Alt bier of course, thats the bittering hop commonly used.
> Substitute:   Saaz, Tettnanger.
Saaz???
> 
> Name:         STYRIAN GOLDINGS
> Grown:        Yugoslavia (Fuggles grown in Yugoslavia), also grown in US
> Profile:      similar to Fuggles
> Typical use:  bittering, aroma for a wide variety of beers, popular in Europe
> Example:      ???
Belgium ales, Rochefort, 
> 
> Name:         CENTENNIAL
> Grown:        US
> Profile:      spicy, floral aroma, clean bittering hop (Super Cascade?)
> Typical use:  general purpose bittering, aroma, some dry hopping
> Example:      ???

Sierra Neveda Celebration ale, Old Crustaceon Barley Wine (Rogue), Jim Busch 
New American Ales :-)

> Name:         PERLE
> Grown:        Germany, US
> Profile:      pleasant aroma, almost minty bittering hop
> Typical use:  general purpose bittering for all lagers except pilsener
> Example:      ???

Sierra Nevada Pale Ale


This is good info, just nitting around here,  lots to know about hops.....

Best,
Jim Busch


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Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1993 09:47:17 -0600 (CST)
From: jim at n5ial.mythical.com (Jim Graham)
Subject: Oatmeal Stout results!

Ok, it's been a few weeks now since I brewed my oatmeal stout, and a bit
longer since I asked the HBD for assistance in this area.  Well, we now
have some results...and they're very *GOOD* results.  :-)  Thanks to all
who provided me with valuable information that led up to this batch.

I also have a question regarding the sediment in the bottle, but I'll leave
that to the end.

I went with the following:

6 lbs Oatmeal Dark extract (from William's)
1 lb Dry American Dark extract (also from William's)
1/4 oz English Fuggles (60 minutes)
1 oz English Fuggles (30 minutes)
1 packet Burton Ale liquid yeast (William's)
corn sugar for priming, as always....

The recipe called for 4 oz of Lactose (add during last 10 minutes of boil),
but I didn't have that, so I skipped it.  :-)  This recipe was what the
guy I talked to a William's said would be closest to Sam Smith's Oatmeal
Stout, so that's what I went with (he'd given me a slight variation of this
over the phone---it included Hallertauer hops, which this doesn't).

Result:  I'll do a side-by-side comparison with Sam Smith's Oatmeal Stout
tonight, if I can find any (SS isn't easy to find, due to how expensive it
is---the stores don't stock much, and they don't always stock it at all).
But just from memory, I'd have to say that it is either a very close match,
or is dead on.  And it's very, very good.  Yummmm....

It's also particularly appropriate now, since we just got hit with the first
real signs of winter (about a month early, too), and actually went into the
30s last night.  Yuck!  But, in the evenings, I have a nice oatmeal stout
(served at proper cellar temps, thanks to the fact that the apartment isn't
approaching 800F) to warm me up.

Ok, I mentioned a question....  This is the first time I've used liquid
yeast.  I've noticed that the sediment in the bottle seems to be a lot
finer than normal (i.e., much smaller bits, and more of them).  Is this
a characteristic of the liquid yeast?  Or is it just a characteristic of
that particular liquid yeast?  Just curious.  Btw, I haven't really
decided whether it makes pouring the beer easier or more difficult....but
you certainly have to pay a lot more attention to where the sediment is
when you pour (my first glass had a bunch of sediment at the bottom).

Later,
   --jim

- --
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E-mail me for information about KAMterm (host mode for Kantronics TNCs).


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Date: 2 Nov 1993 08:20:27 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer#d#john at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Brass in the boil

Hi Group,
I noticed the Brass post today, and I can come up with an answer I think.
First, are you noticing ANY corrosion? Any roughening of the surface?
IF your fitting is an alloy containing Lead (unlikely) that would be a big
problem. The leaded alloys are UNS # C3X000 series. These alloys are used when
increased machinability is desired.

Hopefully, the brass fitting alloy being used is Red Brass aka UNS # C23000
aka ASTM B43. That alloy is all Copper-Zinc and will pose no health hazard. The
zinc is in solid solution for this alloy and is not subject to leaching. Other
alloys such as Admirility Brass (copper zinc tin) may be in use and are
acceptable.

With Red Brass or Admirility Brass, any corrosion you may be seeing would not
be toxic. Corrosion in this case may be the Brightening of the fitting during
use, the same as your wort chillers. 

 -John Palmer 
600 laid off the Space Station last Friday, but fortunatly I made the cut.
Invest in the Space Program, folks, tell your congressmen. It promotes good
jobs through transfer of technology for a good future. It also inspires our
children toward higher education. Keep America Strong.

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Date: Tue, 02 Nov 93 11:25:09 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: one-pot brews

          I just met an older fellow (80+) who's been brewing forever. 
          Offered a nice lager (a bit cloudy) which is all he makes. 
          Among other things, he said that he never uses two 
          containers (primary and secondary fermenters) but instead 
          puts the whole batch in 5 gallon carboy, airlocks it, and 
          then waits till it's all done. He said that using two 
          fermenters (I use a plastic bucket, then a carboy) was 
          foolishness and the best chance to get contamination.
          
          Since all the procedure's I've heard about recommend two--a 
          primary and secondary--this fellow's method seems peculiar. 
          
          I wonder if anyone else has experience using only a single 
          jug.
          
          Cheers,
          
          Ron Dwelle (dweller at gvsu.edu)

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Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1993 11:31:11 EST
From: Y Y Zed <fini at bigvax.alfred.edu>
Subject: sterilization options/procedures

Hi all - I'd like to get some input on the methods you use for sterilizing/
disinfecting equipment and bottles.  I've been told be a few people that
bleach is to be avoided due to the risk of residual bleach solution killing
off yeast.  An alternative is B-Brite, but I don't know how effective it
is at killing everything off compared to bleach, which is very strong.  I'm
relatively new at the game, and since I like to experiment I disinfected the
bottles for my first and second batches with rubbing alcohol and then rinsed
well.  The first batch turned out well, but the second had a weird aftertaste
(due to bacterial infection, I assume).  What's the best method for sterilizing
mass quantities of bottles?  bleach solution in a bathtub?

thanks - 

Paul Fini

fini at bigvax.alfred.edu

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Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1993 09:33:07 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Frogs?/Cider/Scotch Ales

Norm says:  "...have to punt (i.e. pitch a frog yeast).  
    And that's SG for the nitpicky coyote!:)"
*   Pardon my ignorance...What's a "frog yeast"?   
*   Norm...sounds like you can use FG pretty soon!
*************************
>You Don't want cider with sorbate.  Find an orchard and get
>the fresh pressed- unfiltered stuff.  Much worth it!
That's very good advice.   * (but of course!!!!  :)    )
*   I submit:  I over-stated sorbate's effectiveness. 
*   It inhibits yeast budding=reproduction. Bacteria don't bud.

*   A note on cider sources...and hg apples....There have been cases 
of E.coli infections from apples which had fallen, sat on the ground
prior to pressing.  E.coli may be a common component of the flora of 
your bowels...but it's better to keep it at that end, not at the other!
    The point here...it may be safer to campden your cider, then pitch.
Rather than try to rely on the normal flora of yeast/bacteria/other bugs
which might reside in fresh cider.  I'll be starting up this years cyser
pretty darn soon (payday!!!   pant...groan...)
    Also:  It's worth bugging your presser to inquire about the types
of apples used.  Many orchards will press what's on hand. That may 
vary from day to week.   You might get a better deal if you:
    1. Go in with friends and buy LOTS!  We walk off with up to ~20gals!
    2. Arrange to come in on pressing day.  You get fresher cider, and
        you won't depleat their stock.  Bargain and you might get a better
        deal.  The best I've run into is $2.50 / gallon.
*************************
Eric Urquhart (eurquhar at sfu.ca)
Centre for Pest Management,     *  Sounds like you'd have your work cut 
RE: Noonan's Scotch Ale book    *  out to deal with the likes of me!
  
*   I was quite pleased with it.  The history is interesting...ok so
I found the water chapter kinda boring...and didn't feel like he gave
a good explanation of the process of double mashing...just assumed we
knew all about it!  The book passed around a couple of friends and resulted
in the finest products out of these brewers I've seen in quite some time.
    I made a 90 shilling first runnings, and continued to sparge a 2 penny.
I didn't have the exact ingredients called for, but was pleased with the
result.  A strong- malty sweet, deep rich brew.  I must try it again soon.
I won't bother posting the recipe unless there is a call for it. (i did a
recipe yesterday...)
    One thing I found intersting was that the dark malt flavors came from
roasted malt, not crystal.  I always assumed it would be a heavily xtal'd
grain bill.  Not so.  Also...I would've assumed good 'ol greg would've
promoted the Decoction- being a master of it himself...ok at least a
previous author on the subject.  
    I did find the book to be more clearly written than his Lager book.
I think I still like Porter/Pale ale the best.  Mr. Fix's Oktober etc.
is also a very nicely written piece.  I do find these books to inspire
the desire to explore a style in greater detail.  It also gives ideas
on how to name your ferments...even if you drift away from the style a bit!
    
    /**************************************************************\
    ~~~~~~~~~ John (The Coyote) Wyllie  SLK6P at cc.usu.edu ~~~~~~~~~~~
    \*******************   Brew on you bums!    *******************/

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Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1993 8:36:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Cave <CAVE at PSC.ORG>
Subject: Counterflow chillers


	There has been considerable debate recently on the relative merits of
immersion vs. counterflow chillers.  While I do not intend to try and convince
others to switch to the counterflow design, it is the one that I use for the 
following reasons:

	1) About 50% of the beers (all-grain) that I brew are lagers.  I prefer
very cold ferments to these beers (45 F).  For much of the year, I can get my
beer close to this temperature with this design.  During the summer months I
use an additional coil (after the counter current) which runs through an ice 
bath.  This drops the beer an additional 10 F.  This rapid drop in temperature
makes for remarkable cold breaks.

	2) Much of the trub falls out in the kettle.  I have a hop-back and a
second screen in at the outlet-valve to prevent the occassional errant hop from
entering the chiller.  I give the wort a quick stir to generate a whirl-pool.
The counter-current flows into glass carboys.  I then rack off the trub and
into glass carboys (Yes I rack off the trub; the breweries I have talked to 
estimate that they remore 95% or more of their trub prior to ferment).

	3) The unchilled beer remains well above 160F and is therefore sterile.
Gravity checks can be rapidly made at the exit of the chiller and gently re-
introduced to the boiler without fear of contamination.

	4) When 2/3's of the wort remains in the kettle, I throw in hops for
aroma (hot soak).  This gives excellent aroma.  A hop-back in-line with the 
chiller would be a better way to go but I have't come up with a rugged design
yet.
	5) With my boils, I always seem to end up with a gravity 4 or 5 points
higher than target (and correspondingly less volume).  I have recently come up
with a gentle way of adjusting gravity.  I fire up the sparge tank and boil 
water.  This is introduced with a tube into the boiler with the beer
(when the beer has nearly all gone through the chiller). This gently washes
the hops and trub of fermentable extract.

	One disadvantage that I see with the counter current chiller is that
the Irish moss addition is less effective, as it doesn't really enter the
collecting carboys. Consequently, the beer in the collecting carboys takes
longer to drop bright than it otherwise would in the boiler.  However, as I
mentioned, trub is also settled and filtered out in the boiler.

	I guess you pays your money and takes your chances!!

	Jim Cave 684-684-8081 "I brew.....I am" 

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1263, 11/04/93