HOMEBREW Digest #1345 Tue 08 February 1994
Digest #1344
Digest #1346
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Re : dryhopping (Conn Copas)
More oaky beers (please) ("Daniel F McConnell")
Beechwood aging/thanks for yeast culturing advice (Paul Beard)
definition of pH (Mark A Fryling)
Homebrewing BBS (aew)
carboy tipping (George Tempel)
glutaraldehyde (Chris Lovelace)
troubleshoot (RONALD DWELLE)
Re: pH (TODD CARLSON)
report: dry hopping in a cornelius keg ("when the cold winds blow, it'll ease your mind 07-Feb-1994 0951 -0500")
annoying low-fills (07-Feb-1994 0956 -0500)
Oh, all right... ("Steven W. Smith")
Re: More Wood (Jim Busch)
glutaraldehyde ("John L. Isenhour")
World-Wide Web for HBD at U of M? ("Mark S. Woods")
used kegs (Mark Bunster)
Cider Digest address (yeebot)
More on Oxygen ("Palmer.John")
Am I doomed (GNT_TOX_)
re: laaglander in starters ("Edward F. Loewenstein")
Hop Back (npyle)
Fate of Ballantine India Pale Ale ("Roger Deschner ")
Lager Procedures (freidin)
Belgian Glassware Info (Jay Hersh)
2 questions - pH test papers and lactic acid (Ed Oriordan)
Copper, and Zima (COYOTE)
Oakay already. (COYOTE)
DISCOUNT TO HOMEBREWERS (Kip Damrow)
glutaraldehyde (Paul Boor)
extract usage (JEBURNS)
Digest catalog. (Eugene Zimmerman)
HSA/Belgian Chocolate/Closed boils == bad beer? (korz)
Whitbread Pale Ale Recipe ("PJ Clark")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 11:56:47 GMT
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re : dryhopping
Al, in repentant mode, writes:
> Sure. I've tasted quite a few Engish and American Barleywines that have
> a significant hop nose... despite having to compete with all those esters.
> I feel that East Kent Goldings have a resiny/candylike aroma that can often
> be mistaken for an ester.
I typically mistake the influence of Goldings for an unusual malt. Maybe we
should also be distinguishing between hop flavour and aroma here. A barleywine
like Gales Prize Old Ale is chock full of Goldings flavour, but this is
slightly different from aroma. I personally doubt whether any barleywine can
have significant aroma, in the strictest sense, on account of its maturity.
That is not to say that dry hopping could not have contributed to its
flavour.
Return to table of contents
Date: 7 Feb 1994 07:20:05 -0500
From: "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel_F_McConnell at mailgw.surg.med.umich.edu>
Subject: More oaky beers (please)
Subject: More oaky beers (please)
Louis K. Bonham writes (in summary):
>Recently there's been a bit of traffic regarding oak barrels and
>aging, mostly between the "oak imparts tannins; nobody would use
>it" crowd vs. the "I've seen lots of oak beer casks; so it must be
>OK" crowd.
Ok, let me introduce another crowd. I LIKE the flavor of oak
and sometimes add white oak chips TO THE BOIL. I've even
added it late (aroma oaks?). I find that the toasty/vanilla
flavor goes well with a brown or mild ale if a very light
hand is used. It can lend a subtle dimension if the
perception is at or slightly above threshold. It also works
well with Viennas or amber lagers. Of course, these beers
are not intended to be brewed to any style or to do well in
competitions, they are simply intended to be enjoyed. I
think they would confuse a judge or two ;-)
On a related note, in addition to oak, pecan and chestnut do
wonderful things as well as nutshells, nutmeats, morels,
chantrells.....but now I'm way off the topic!
DanMcC
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 08:07:10 -0500
From: paul.beard at gatekeeper.mis.tridom.com (Paul Beard)
Subject: Beechwood aging/thanks for yeast culturing advice
>> AB uses
Beachwood to help deal with their overly-flocculant yeast and not for any
flavor it may impart.
Not that I know enough to get into a flame war, but Michael Jackson shows
in his Beerhunter episode on German beers that one style of beer is aged
with great slabs of beechwood in the casks. It might have been a rauchbier
(smoked) but don't take it as gospel.
He also mentioned on the radio intervew he did some weeks back that AB goes
to a lot of trouble over Bud, citing the Beechwood aging, but confessed
that it was hard to discern any improvement.
Also, thanks for the advice on yeast scavenging/culturing. I have a big
starter ready to work with.
And check out Spencer's Beer Page on the WWW; I've been using it as my Home
Page for a few weeks: a guaranteed smile!
- --
Paul Beard
AT&T Tridom, 840 Franklin Court, Marietta, GA 30067
404 514-3798 * FAX: 404 429-5419 * tridom!paul.beard/beardp at tridom.com
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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 8:22:08 EST
From: Mark A Fryling <mfryling at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: definition of pH
Hi All,
Just thought I'd use one of my Analytical Chemistry references to clear up any
confusion about pH and what it means. For documentation sake, I am a PhD
candidate in analytical chemistry and the following is a direct quote from a
good quantitative analysis text "Quantitative Chemical Analysis by Daniel C.
Harris".
The definition of pH is
pH = -log(Activity of H+) = [H+]*(gamma H+)
Where
[H+] = Concentration of hydrogen ion in (moles/liter)
gamma H+ = activity coefficient for hydrogen ion.
When we measure the pH we are measuring the negative log of the hydrogen
ion activity, not the concentration. To simplify life however, we will
normally use the incomplete form when we speak of pH
pH = -log[H+]
Just a few addditional notes for those of you who like this kind of stuff:
6.02x10^23 molecules = one mole of molecules
In general whenever you see a small p preceeding a variable it means
take minus the log of that variable.
In practical terms, all that is probably necessary to know is that for aqueous
solutions, the normal pH range is 0 - 14 where a lower measured pH means that
you have a higher concentration of free hydrogen ions and the solution is
therefore more acidic.
If anyone out there is interested in more detailed info. you can send a request
to me and I'll point you in the direction of some books that have more about
the subject of acid/base chemistry than any normal person would ever want to
know.
See Ya,
Mark Fryling
Dept. of Chemistry
Ohio State Univ.
<mfryling at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 94 08:52:51 -0500
From: aew at spitfire.unh.edu
Subject: Homebrewing BBS
Mitchell Evans asks about homebrewing BBSs:
Well, I started up a Homebrewing BBS about 1 month ago, interest has
been slowly creeping in, although I haven't as yet advertised in any of
the 3 local homebrew stores. I keep some HBD's on-line as well as other
stuff from the homebrewing archive. I'll let you know how things are
going in 6 months. Usually that's how long it takes to get a caller
base established on a BBS.
Oh, here's a shameless plug for this (free to call, totally non-profit
- in fact money losing) BBS:
Musketeer's Tavern BBS - (603) 964-5860 - Homebrewing, Wargaming and Paintball
SIG's (Special Interest Groups) With discussion areas and file areas.
Now back to your regularly scheduled Beer talk.......
-Allan Wright
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 1994 09:06:36 +0000 (U)
From: George Tempel <tempel at MONMOUTH-ETDL1.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: carboy tipping
carboy tipping
>To George Tempel, who is worried about tipping over his carboy while sampling
for hydrometer readings: sit on the floor and HUG your carboy. It's a
wonderful bonding experience and you can be sure you won't spill any this way
(or at any rate if you do it will be on yourself! -- hmmm, beer by osmosis?
beer rub-down??)
i'm well aware of the bonding experience. My wife keeps telling me to leave
the beer alone! Get away from the carboy, blah blah blah...but she _does_
love the beer.
I wasn't worried...i use a glass turkey baster. The other fellow was
worrying!
l8r...
ty (george tempel, home = netromancr at aol.com)
"kiss cats: the dachshund and the deer are one"--wallace stevens
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 09:28:03 -0500
From: lovelace at pop.nih.gov (Chris Lovelace)
Subject: glutaraldehyde
In HBD 1343, Mark Garetz asked about using glutaraldehyde as a sterilant.
I've been using a product called Metricide to disinfect EEG electrodes.
I've also used glutaraldehyde for fixing (solidifying) brain tissue in rats
before removing it. The solutions used for sanitizing contain only 2%
glutaraldehyde, and will kill most any germs and other assorted nasties
with a 45 min. contact time (it will completely sterilize with a 10 hr.
contact time). As Ed Hitchcock said in HBD 1344, it might be risky using
this stuff with any food-related items. When I used glutaraldehyde as a
fixative when perfusing rats, I treated it with respect (if you cut your
finger and get this stuff on it, you'll wish it was only salt water!).
The product Mark mentioned, Cidex, is not currently available. I was told
by a company that normally sells it that the EPA is doing some testing on
it and other glutaraldehyde disinfectants, but they should be back on the
market soon. The only one I know of that's currently being sold is
Metricide.
It had crossed my mind to use this stuff in my brewing operation, but
putting any substance this nasty anywhere near my beer makes me nervous.
Also, some of these glut. disinfectants contain a surfactant to make them
last longer (without it, the stuff is reusable for 14 days, with it, it
lasts 28 days). I was told by a couple of other EEG technicians that, in
some of these products (including the Metricide that I'm currently using),
this stuff can form a thin layer on the EEG electrodes I'm disinfecting, so
they may not work as well. This leads me to believe that the 28-day
solution could leave behind a film, even on well rinsed items. Also, this
stuff gives off fumes that are probably carcinogenic. So, ventilation and
a covered container are essential.
So, the 14-day solution (without the surfactant) might be safe to use, as
long as everything is rinsed very, very, very, very, well afterwards. Even
so, I'm sticking to the tried and true sanitizers that I know hasn't made
anyone keel over.
Chris
_________________________________________________________________
Chris Lovelace LOVELACE at POP.NIH.GOV LOVELACE at HELIX.NIH.GOV
National Institute of Mental Health, Laboratory of Psychology and
Psychopathology
Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, Department
of Medical and Clinical Psychology
Bethesda, Md U.S.A.
_________________________________________________________________
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 94 09:38:52 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: troubleshoot
Over the weekend, I bottled my latest and a sample revealed
a big problem. I think the problem comes from one of three
variables. The one variable I have no knowledge/experience
with is:
What happens to the brew when you use a plastic fermenter
and oxygen passes through the plastic into the fermenting
wort? How would the oxygen affect the taste?
I suspect one of the other two variables is the real
problem, but I'd like to know theories/experiences others
have had with plastic/oxygen.
TIA
Ron Dwelle (dweller at gvsu.edu)
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 94 10:07:36 EST
From: carlsont at GVSU.EDU (TODD CARLSON)
Subject: Re: pH
FYI
The origin of the term pH was debated a month or so ago on
the internet chemstry education discussion group (chemed-l).
As I recall there was no difinitive answer but the general
consensus is that it came from potential Hydrogen. But
potential could be translated from any of 5 or 6 languages
and no one really knows remembers who thought of it first.
SO -- If us chemists can't figure it out, us brewers really
shouldn't bother.
HOWEVER
Mr "t's" review of pH from Saturday was fine with one
exception. Hydrogen ion concentrations must be in
moles/liter (not ppm or ppb) where a mole of H+ weighs
1.0 g. But since a liter is asumed to be 1000 g in a part
per whaterver unit, the previously reported calculation were
1000 times too big.
Not a flame
I'm a chemistry teacher
It's a dirty job but somebody's got to do it.
todd
carlsont at gvsu.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 09:56:19 EST
From: "when the cold winds blow, it'll ease your mind 07-Feb-1994 0951 -0500" <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: report: dry hopping in a cornelius keg
About 4-5 weeks ago, I asked HBD what the wisdom was w.r.t. dry hopping beer
in the keg. The majority of the posts ranged from 1/2 oz to 1 oz.
I just tapped the keg. It is a light porter, I guess that is the best way
to describe it.
I dry hopped it with 1 oz Kent Goldings plugs in a muslin bag, sunk to the
bottom with a big glass marble.
The beer conditioned in the keg for a period of 3-4 weeks. There isn't too
much of a noticible hop nose to the beer - I was actually counting on a very
strong hop nose. Then again, I tend to be more of a hophead then the
average homebrewer.
Next time I do this, I am going to _double_ the dosage: i'll use 2 ounces
of leaf hops. I want to _smell_ them hops!!!! :-H
JC Ferguson Littleton MA USA
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 10:06:34 EST
From: 07-Feb-1994 0956 -0500 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: annoying low-fills
When going out to a bar, I always enjoy getting some 'good brew'. But,
for good brew, you typically have to pay a top price. Here in the Boston
area, $3.25-$3.75 a pint (16oz) is typical.
I don't mind paying that price, but when I order a pint, I want 16oz, not
13oz!
It is amazing how many people are getting ripped off out here. If the glass
isn't filled with beer (without the head) right to the very top of the glass,
the you are not getting 16 oz of beer. Ever pour a 12oz bottle of beer in
one of those straight-sided 16oz glasses? It damn near fills it, maybe 1/2"
below the top of the glass. That is how lots and lots of pints are sold here
in this area. They charge you a price for 16oz and you are getting 12-13oz
of beer!! That last 1/2 inch of the glass is about 4 oz of beer!
Recently I was at the Union Street Bar (?) in Newton and I ordered a Harpoon
winter ale. It was a pitiful pint, as i like to say, maybe 13 oz of beer.
I asked the bartender to top it off, and he said, "that's the way we pour them
here." He didn't get a tip. Several bartenders usually oblige me, although
I sense a bit of unwillingness sometimes.
Maybe I'm jaded having been to England where they are very careful to give
you a full, 20oz pint of beer, exactly what you pay for.
I'd love to mount a campaign for "correct" pints, but have no idea how
to do it. I speculate that these bars do it intentionally, playing on
the lack of attention/concern from their patrons. It is a sad ripoff, I
think.
Comments?
JC Ferguson Littleton MA USA
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Date: 07 Feb 1994 08:31:42 -0700 (MST)
From: "Steven W. Smith" <SMITH_S at gc.maricopa.edu>
Subject: Oh, all right...
tlyons at netcom.com (Tom Lyons) writes:
>
>And ANOTHER reason one should clearly label/disclose ingredients such
>as that is that some people simply choose not to partake. ...
So, you're saying I _shouldn't_ enter my "LSD Oatmeal Stout" in the GABF???
You should see _all the colors_ when you hold it up to the light!
Personally, I suspect that someone brewing a cannabis beer would be more
likely to run around wearing a sign reading "ARREST ME, PLEASE!" than clearly
label it and/or enter it in a competition, but one never knows, eh? "Relax",
I think that the probability approaches zero that you'll encounter such a brew
accidentally.
_,_/|
\o.O; Steven W. Smith, Programmer/Analyst
=(___)= Glendale Community College, Glendale Az. USA
U SMITH_S at GC.BITNET
smith_s at gc.maricopa.edu
Mah'-ee huv'-erk-raft iz fuhl ov ee'-ulz
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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 10:34:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: More Wood
Another data point wrt wooden casks. During my travels through
Germany, one of the most consistent findings was that when a beer
passed from "ooooh thats really good" to "ohmygod, this is heaven",
the differnece often was that the beer was dispensed directly from
a wooden barrel, ala Andechs. It may be pitch lined, but it sure
works wonders for the beer. This is still practiced by the Munich
breweries for the Doppels, and some incredible Franconian Darks were
also dispensed this way.
Darryl, did you find the same?
Best,
Jim Busch
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Date: Mon, 07 Feb 1994 10:36:24 CST
From: "John L. Isenhour" <isenhour at lambic.fnal.gov>
Subject: glutaraldehyde
Mark says:
>Like I say, I've only looked at the data for a few minutes.
>Glutaraldehyde is listed in my Fisher catalog but that's as far
>as I've got. I'll look in my Merck Index tonight. But does
>anyone else have any experience or data on this stuff?
I use it for hood/instrument cleaning and for yeast fridge (especially around
the seals). I cut it down to 2-4% (I have 40% stuff, it pretty dangerous if
not handled properly) and it works really well. I have not gotten around to
using it for kegs etc.
-john
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 10:32:34 -0600 (CST)
From: "Mark S. Woods" <woodsman at genesis.mcs.com>
Subject: World-Wide Web for HBD at U of M?
Yesterday somebody posted a message stating that an HBD archive and
thread browser had been set up at the University of Michigan for use with
WWW. I tried telnetting to UM last night, following the sketchy
instructions, but was unable to login (using 'WWW' as a login). Let's see,
I don't have the address, but I think it was: gulardi.itn.med.umich.edu.
If you've found a way in, or know that I'm doing something stupid, please
let me know. This sounds like a great resource for HBDers and I'd like to
check it out.
Mark Woods
woodsman at genesis.mcs.com
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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 11:43:16 EST
From: mbunster at hibbs.vcu.edu (Mark Bunster)
Subject: used kegs
I've checked my archives (which run back about 6 months) and the ftp site,
and was unable to find an answer for this question:
Is there a place other than begging your soda distributor for buying used SS
kegs on the atlantic seaboard?? And I've seen SS mean both straight-sided and
stainless steel. Someone moaned about how it's all aluminum now--if you don't
boil in it does that matter?
The reconditioning keggin_info was helpful. My partner is thinking of
shelling out $200 for a complete kit. Fair/great/awful price?
Thanks--how do most folks ship entry bottles for judging? Not just the
carrier (I know how to lie to UPS now), but how you package it and what your
results will. I enjoyed the oven debate on sanitizing bottles--maybe one on
packing peanuts would be fun.
- --
Mark Bunster |I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Survey Research Lab--VCU |
Richmond, VA 23284 |
mbunster at hibbs.vcu.edu |
(804) 367-8813/353-1731 |
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Date: Sun, 06 Feb 94 03:15:11 EST
From: yeebot at aol.com
Subject: Cider Digest address
Thanks again to everyone who replied to my request for Lambic Digest info!
In return, here's the Cider Digest info:
(Unfortunately, recent volume has been very low)
Send articles for submission to cider at x.org
Send subscribe, unsubscribe and address change requests to
cider-request@ x.org
Raw digest archives available for ftp only on export.x.org
Brew easy,
Mike Yee
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Date: 7 Feb 1994 08:56:51 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: More on Oxygen
Hello Group,
Let me start by saying that I did not intend to speak as an Expert on Wort
Oxidation. As an engineer, I am used to doing a literature search, reading,
and then putting together a summary position. But, as my wife constantly
assures me, I Could Be Wrong! That said, Let me thank Al for his inputs.
Jonathon Knight wanted to know more of what oxygen can do:
According to Dr. Fix in the Zymurgy Trouble Shooting Issue ('87):
Acetaldehyde is a precuror to ethanol during the fermentation process.
Ethanol can also be oxidized to form Acetaldehyde...produced by oxidation,
it produces unpleasant acetic-cider tones.
Also from the same issue, Dave Schroedl writes about Oxidation:
The oxidized/stale flavor is caused by a compound called Trans-2-nonenal. The
sherrylike-winey flavor by acetaldehyde and furfural compounds. The rotton
pineapple-garbage (flavor) is caused by higher alcohols and the same compounds
as listed abouve.
I was interested in the Pasteur Effect and that oxygen introduced during
fermentation can produce more Diacetyl. More good reasons not to allow aeration
once fermentation has started.
These effects are why good siphoning practices are encouraged when transferring
beer to a secondary or for bottling. Any splashing while it is exposed to the
air during transfer can cause more oxygen to be absorbed. A good practice
during siphoning is to do it slowly at first by keeping the difference in
elevation small, and keep the outlet below the surface so that there is no
turbulance as the container fills.
John Palmer palmer#d#john at ssdgwy.mdc.com
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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 12:11 EST
From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject: Am I doomed
Friday night I set out to make a good Bohemian Pilsner. I bought
Wyeast Bohemian Lager Yeast a couple of days before and the bag had
puffed up nicely. Friday night I cooked the extract and the hops and
put the stuff in a plastic water jug to begin primary fermentation. I
Added the yeast at 65F and placed a cork, size 8 1/2, and a
fermentation lock on the jug. On Sunday, I finally started seeing a
little bit of foam on the surface. I went out for the day and at
6:30pm, the foam and CO2 pressure had blown the airlock right off the
fermenter. I sanitized a hose and placed in the hole in the cork.
All was going well, but the hose was a tad on the loose side and stuff
was coming out the cork. So, I decided to push the hose in a little
deeper and POP, the cork fell into the beer! I quickly sanitized a
glass and placed over the opening to keep any nasties from falling
in.
Is my beer doomed? And please, stop laughing. It could happen to
anyone....
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Date: Mon, 07 Feb 94 11:26:39 CST
From: "Edward F. Loewenstein" <SNREDLOW at MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Subject: re: laaglander in starters
Greetings,
I have had the same experience as Mark Woods concerning yeast starters
made with Laaglander DME, NO APPARENT FERMENTATION, not a single burp
from the airlock, NOTHING!!! However, like most other things,
don't worry, use the starter. I have pitched these unassuming starters
into over eight different 5-gallon batches and have had good starts
(carboy bubbling merrily away within six hours) in every instance.
These flat starters occurred with three different yeast strains, WYeast
american ale, Wyeast london ale, and yeast cultured from a Chimay bottle.
The specific gravity of the starter does not seem to matter either, I
have tried from 1.020 to 1.045 and still no bubbles. It certainly seems
to be associated with the Laaglander; can anyone comment as to why?
I'm not concerned (since the starters work), just curious.
Ed Loewenstein SNREDLOW at MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU
University of Missouri
Forestry
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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 11:24:37 MST
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: Hop Back
I have received a couple of requests for info on my hop back, and I thought
it might be of general interest to you gadget freaks out there:
My hopback is based on the Kinney Baughman model from the Zymurgy Gadgets and
Equipment Special Issue. Kinney recommends using a 1-quart mason jar for
the extra capacity. Mine is a 1-pint mason jar. It will hold 1/2 ounce of
loose hops, maybe more if I pack them. The 1-quart would be nice.
Kinney drills holes in the top of the jar and installs grommets for an
air-tight seal (this is important). I acquired a large rubber stopper
(green) similar to, but much bigger than, the stoppers used on carboys. This
stopper was punched in a machine shop so that two 3/8" copper tubes could be
pushed through. I think the rubber stopper is more reliable, but the
lid/grommets should work fine.
The inflow pipe goes to the bottom of the jar and the outflow pipe pulls
liquid from the top of the jar. The outflow pipe has part of copper scrubber
clamped on with piece of wire, and then around that is a nylon hop bag tied
on to the pipe. This works as a good filter to keep the hops out of the CF
chiller. Kinney solders a 1/2" copper end cap onto the outflow pipe of his
hop-back. It is used, I believe, just to keep the scrubber and bag from
slipping off the end. I just flared the end of the outflow pipe for this
same purpose.
To use it, I preheat it with hot water to avoid temperature shock, then fill
it with loose hops. Next, push on the stopper and make the connections to
kettle and chiller. Finally, start the flow and watch it fill. It has the
added benefit of filtering out hotbreak from the kettle. The original
commercial hop-backs were designed to filter out the kettle hops (get the
hops back) and the hot break as well. A final note: I include the hop-back
hops in my IBU calculations, as if they were in the boil for the entire time
it takes to run the wort through (about 15 minutes in my case). Why? The
temperature of the wort is near boiling, and the movement of the wort through
the hops is similar to the boiling action.
The first time I used this gadget, I thought "HSA", because hot wort is
moving through a vessel partially full of air. I later read that the steam
coming off the wort is enough to keep the oxygen down and that it doesn't
appear to cause problems in commercial operations. I have had no noticable
HSA problems and it is true that the jar fills with steam and the air is, of
course, pushed out through the chiller.
Norm
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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 12:01:42 CST
From: "Roger Deschner " <U52983%UICVM at UIC.EDU>
Subject: Fate of Ballantine India Pale Ale
Ballantine IPA was, after many, many corporate buyouts and takeovers,
produced in the Fort Wayne, Indiana Falstaff brewery, owned by General
Brewing. This was the former Berghoff brewery built by the famous Chicago
restaurant family that now owns the Huber brewery in Monroe, Wisconsin.
Anyway, the old Berghoff plant was a creaking, leaking dinosaur suffering
from years of deferred maintenance, and so General decided to close it
and tear it down. They moved production of the Ballantine brands to their
well-maintained, modern, efficient (and even more historic) Pabst brewery
in Milwaukee. We still get it from time to time here in the Chicago area,
and it is basically the same beer, a pretty good effort for a mass beer
factory. However, I believe that they are producing quite a bit less of
it than they did in Fort Wayne. Microbreweries have cut into B-IPA
sales considerably.
General has always been somewhat of an enigma among brewery holding
companies - occasional success simply stupefies them. They really didn't
know how to handle, or capitalize upon, the attention the beer geek crowd
was paying to Ballantine IPA in the late 1980's, and they probably blew a
chance to make some money on it. They also have been relatively slow to
try to capitalize upon the recent success their flagship Pabst Blue
Ribbon brand has been having at recapturing some of its former large
market share in the Midwest, and have just recently alloted an actual
advertizing budget for PBR. Strange.
Roger Deschner University of Illinois at Chicago R.Deschner at uic.edu
=============== "Civilization was CAUSED by beer." =====================
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Date: Mon, 07 Feb 1994 12:23:23 CST
From: freidin at mv3600.chem.nwu.edu
Subject: Lager Procedures
I have decided to take advantage of the Chicago weather and make an
outdoor lager. Since this is my first attempt at a lager, I'm not sure
exactly what to do. I plan on pitching room temperature yeast into
room temperature wort in the primary (plastic) fermenter, then moving
the fermenter outdoors, shielded from the wind and sun. After fermentation
begins (2-3 days) I plan on racking to the secondary (glass), which I can
encase in styrofoam.
Questions:
Any problems with my plans?
How long should I expect to lager prior to bottling?
Is there anything special I need to do at bottling time?
Since I am about a month behind in reading the HBD, private E-mail
would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Howard Freidin
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Date: Mon, 07 Feb 1994 13:48:36 EST
From: Jay Hersh <hersh at x.org>
Subject: Belgian Glassware Info
Someone was looking for info on Belgian Glassware either here or in r.c.b
but since this gets cross posted there I figured I'd just one stop it here...
Venberg & Dewulf
52 Pioneer St.
Cooperstown, NY 13326
607-547-8184
had a flier in some info on Beglian Beers they import which also had info on
some styles of Belgian Galssware.
Styles they had....
Scaldis Snifter, Duvel, Affligem, Rodenbach and Jenlain and said they'd have
Westmalle Chalices soon (this was 6 months ago so they probably have them now).
Prices varied by quantity so I won't post em here....
Enjoy,
JaH
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts
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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 13:48:32 -0500
From: edo at marcam.com (Ed Oriordan)
Subject: 2 questions - pH test papers and lactic acid
Question 1 -
I just started using some Crosby and Baker pH test strips that I bought about
3 years ago. They are enclosed in a little glass tube. I find them
very hard to use. Do these go bad? Or is it just me that
has a heck of a time matching the color of the strip to the one on the
instructions.
I know my tap is 7.0 (from using an aquarium pH test kit), but I have a
tough time figuring this out with the strips. Could they have gone bad?
I don't want to buy more unless these could have gone bad.
Question 2 -
Along the same lines, for acidifying my sparge water I recently got some
lactic acid. Based upon the fact that I am not comfortable with the pH
readings I can get currently, could somebody give me a ballpark idea
on how much to use for acidifying 4 gallons of VERY soft water.
Is it more likely to be .5 tsp of lactic acid or 2 tsp lactic acid?
Miller mentions mixing 2 tsp in 3 cups water, but doesn't explain if you are
then supposed to use just a little of this mix, or most of the mix.
In case you are wondering why I am using lactic acid ----
I am using lactic acid because Miller highly recomends it. I use gypsum
in my strike water to adjust the pH, calcium and sulfate, but cannot use
it in the sparge water to adjust pH because I would then have to much calcium
and sulfate.
I am not expecting a lot of responses on this (as it is probably not the most
exciting of questions) so if you have any knowledge of the above, please
email me.
TIA
Ed O'
edo at marcam.com
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Date: Mon, 07 Feb 1994 11:53:10 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Copper, and Zima
I've observed a strange thing. My cooler, mash tun has a copper
manifold dealio in the bottom. I also have a copper tube which extends
upward and has a sprinkler attached.
What I've observed is this: The copper UNDER the mash stays shiny,
while the copper ABOVE the mash becomes darkened and has a filmy
coating. When rubbed on the fingers and sniffed- it has a strange
metallicy sort of smell. Not something I like, or want in my beer.
I'm presuming this is a matter of oxidation making the copper
darker, and the acidity of the mash maintaining a clean copper.
Like dropping an old penny into a vinegar bath.
So: Question here is, should I worry? Should I /could I do anything
about it. I guess I could rinse the copper in a mild acid bath.
Did I get the wrong kind of copper perhaps? Am I braindead (don't answer that)
***
Zima: Found some in CA over x-mas. Clear as a whistle.
Taste? Yes it has taste. Have you ever tried Squirt or any of those
citrusy-grapefruit like sodas? Add a shot of vodka and there you have it.
Zima. Malt beverage? Hah....maybe a long time ago (pre-processing).
Ya sure. FIne. It may have a quality of it's own. More like a wine cooler-
many of which are also malt-based beverages. But it ain't beer.
I have one bottle I was gonna save- ya know , to sit on a shelf for looks-thru
But toot suggested I save the cap from the opened one, fill it with water
and re-cap. Looking at it- who would know!
l8r.
|\
|\| \/| \-\-\- John (The Coyote) Wyllie SLK6P at cc.usu.edu -/-/-/
| |
------
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 1994 11:41:07 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Oakay already.
Alright alright...I give. Let go-a my arm already! Uncle! Uncle!
I guess no-one gathers that any mention of the "big boys" should
automatically have a :) attatched. I don't consider their "methods"
of "brewing" to be anywhere near what we as homebrewers and micros and such
consider "brewing techniques". Our goals are SO different.
1. Miller,Coors,Bud: Make a beer with no taste/no color.
Sells LOTS of it! Then market other products w/logo!
2. Us and them. Make tasty, quality, varied brews of numerous
differnt styles and flavors and colors. Enjoy it slowly.
Just one spuds opinion. I was intending to kid about bud and beachwood.
Sorry if it wasn't obvious enuf.
As for the use of oak: if anyone followed before, the cask I have access
to is from Hofbrau, so it's gonna be european oak. If it's been pitched,
then so be it. Yes- american oak is very different.
Ok...so maybe oak "flavor" isn't an essential of style, but just a
coincidence of "packaging". But it does have a quality of it's own.
It "can" make a contribution to a beers flavor. Some may not desire it,
some may even be repulsed. The modern "cask-conditioning" is in steel,
or (gasp!) aluminum. Ok. So it's easier to maintain.
BUT: I will stand by the fact that an oak cask "Looks neat, and is fun
to tap, and serve from!" Don't bother with it if you don't want, but
I'll try it again, just for the halibut. I'm like that.
Didn't intend to start a flame-wood-war or anything, and there are
obviously less than precise statements being made (by me for one!)
but that's what we're out here for. Sharing ideas, and occasionally-facts.
As Blind Faith once said, "do what you like, dowhatyoulike"
|\
|\| \/| \-\-\- John (The Coyote) Wyllie SLK6P at cc.usu.edu -/-/-/
| |
------
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 11:04:05 PST
From: kdamrow at Thomas.COM (Kip Damrow)
Subject: DISCOUNT TO HOMEBREWERS
Hello HB'ers,
Shameless plug time... but it's for a very good cause (Food Distribution
Center of Orange Co.) Just a reminder to ALL HOMEBREWERS IN SOUTHERN CAL.
The Karnival of Beers, Feb 19-20, at the Fullerton Hofbrau is offering a
**DISCOUNT TO HOMEBREWERS** on price of admission. Call Russell Brent at
the Hofbrau (714) 870-7400 for more info. Price of admission includes:
collectors pint glass, buffet from award winning chef Horst Voelsing,
sample over 30 micro beers from 15 breweries. Souvenir booth featuring
gifts and collectables from 25 micro's from around the country. (glassware
& T-shirts from: Appleton Brewing, Otto Bros.; Alaskan Brewing; Sea Dog
Brewing; Stevens Point; Full Sail and many others!)
This years star studded line-up for beer the tasting and certified
judging (Sat) includes:
Anchor Brewery - San Fran, CA
Sierra Nevada - Chico, CA
Rogue Brewery - Newport, OR
Portland Brewing Co. - Portland, OR
Holy Cow! Casino, Cafe & Brewery - Las Vegas, NV
Pete's Brewing Co. - Palo Alto, CA
Grant's Brewery - Yakima, WA
Anderson Valley - Boonville, CA
Lost Coast Brewery - Eureka, CA
Belmont Brewing Co (BBC) - Long Beach, CA
Brewski's/Riptide Brewery - San Diego, CA
Heritage Brewing Co - Dana Point, CA
Rhino Chasers - Los Angeles, CA
Okie Girl Restaurant & Brewery - Lebec, CA
Thought you might want to know...
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 1994 13:12:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: Paul Boor <PBOOR at BEACH.UTMB.EDU>
Subject: glutaraldehyde
Mark Garetz asked about glutaraldehyde as a sterilant. Glutaraldehyde
is used as a tissue fixative in electronmicroscopy. At 1 to 2% concentrations
it is a wonderfully fast fixative. It will fix your fingers if you handle it.
It will fix your corneas if you handle even the dilutions outside of a hood for
prolonged periods of time. I'll bet it is a great sterilant, but all diluting
of it should be done in a hood. I don't think it's a good idea for use in
brewing.
paul boor
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 14:31:23 EST
From: JEBURNS at ucs.indiana.edu
Subject: extract usage
I just finished bottling my first lager. It was a recipe that used
Root Beer extract as a flavoring (thanks to those that supplied recipes)
As I was looking over the instructions that came with the extract:
Briefly mix extract with 4.5 lbs of regular sugar and warm water pitch
Bread yeast and bottle.
I have made this before a long time ago (before beer) and was wondering
what stops these things from all blowing up? Some of the beer catalogs
suggest using champagne yeast for their extracts. Either way with so
much sugar it seems like a disaster waiting to happen. I didn't give it
a second thought as a kid. We even used Lucky Lager stubby bottles,
which are not a returnable but have pop-off tops. I think one bottle
blew up. Anyway, just curious. I am thinking of using the rest of
the extract to make some soda, but was going to use corn sugar (less) and
either the champagne yeast or maybe an ale yeast. Would this combination
produce the aforementioned hand-grenades?
Dave internet jeburns at ucs.indiana.edu
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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 94 10:48:43 -0700
From: ezimmerm at master.uwyo.edu (Eugene Zimmerman)
Subject: Digest catalog.
Salutations!
I am intrested in all the other breing related computer digests
on the net, but haven't seen any others but this. I _know_ there
are a bunch more. If people will send me brief info on any other
brewing related digests on the net I'll catalog them and then post
a clear and simple list. Please send:
Digest Name
How to Subscribe
FTP Site for Digest
Brief Description -- Who's welcome, etc.
Gene in Laramie
ezimmerm at uwyo.edu
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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 14:29 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: HSA/Belgian Chocolate/Closed boils == bad beer?
Doug writes:
>After 8 batches, all of which have been slowly poured through a funnel with
>strainer (to remove hops, grain particles, etc) into 3 gals of cold water I
>have never experienced any HSA (at least that I know of). I use a sanitized
I think that you may be surprised by the difference if you cool before
any aeration. I was. Initially, I cooled by adding a gallon of boiled,
chilled icewater. This made such a difference, I immediately built an
immersion wort chiller. I suggest you try chilling somehow and then see
what a difference it can make.
>major confussion (on my part) but how does one get HSA when the pot is no
>longer on the flame or burner? I was led to understand that HSA would most
>likely occur through overly strong stirring during the boil. What exactly
>does HSA do to the taste of the beer? Mine all seem great (IMHO) if not a
>lot hoppier than most would choose. Is the HSA a problem in the strainer
>due to boiling the entire 5 gals rather than a concentrated wort such as I
>am making?
It can occur anytime the beer is hot (generally most agree that anything
hotter than 80F is considered too hot) and is oxygenated. The flavor/aroma
is sherrylike -- it's really obvious when you compare side-by-side. I don't
know if concentrated wort would oxidize faster or slower than if you were
doing a full boil, but I contend that it's a bad idea in both cases.
**********
Michael writes:
>still has me stumped. I am wondering if "Belgian" Chocolate might give a
>stronger flavor than say a "British" Chocolate. Can anyone comment on whether
The DeWolf-Cosyns Chocolate malt that we get here in the US is "debitterized"
whatever that means. There apparently is also a "non-debitterized" version,
but it's not imported. I have not used British Chocolate, but the DWC
Chocolate malt, I feel, is much less astringent than Briess, which is the
only other Chocolate malt that I've used. Please note that there are two
brands of Belgian malts now imported into the US, so you may have the other
one. Ask your retailer. The Belgian malt distributed through L.D.Carlson
is not the DeWolf-Cosyns malt. I have no experience with the non-DWC Belgian
malt.
**********
Mark writes:
>Al Korzonas wrote a few digests ago, and then there were comments
>about boiling to drive off the hop aromatics, and Al had mentioned
>that if one could figure out a way to boil and not drive off the
>hop aromatics, then one would be a hero.
>
>In fact, it's been done. All it really takes is a covered boil.
>This is not real practical for homebrewers, but it has been tried
>on a commercial scale. This has a bunch of effects: It raises
>the pressure, so raising the boiling point and increasing hop
>utilization, and therefore allows shorter boiling times, a net
>increase especially considering energy costs. ***BUT*** it has
>not been adopted commercially. Why? Because the hop and malt
>aromatics made decidely *BAD* beer. Tasters rejected it over-
>whelmingly. Now this doesn't explain why late hops work, except
>that maybe the aroma compounds are altered negatively by the long
>boil times.
Actually, I'll bet it was not hop aromatics that were the offending
ones but rather compounds from the malt that made the beer "bad."
I'd have to pull out my books and journals to check for more candidates,
but offhand, I know that DMS is unpleasant at high levels, usually
boiled-off in a standard "open-boil" and would be retained in a
"closed-boil" system. DMS evaporation was exactly one of the reasons
I had in mind when I said that there currently was no way to retain
bittering hop aromatics in the boil.
Al.
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Date: 7 Feb 1994 16:24:43 U
From: "PJ Clark" <pj_clark1 at spacemail.jhuapl.edu>
Subject: Whitbread Pale Ale Recipe
Subject: Time:4:18
PM
OFFICE MEMO Whitbread Pale Ale Recipe
Date:2/7/94
Does anyone have an extract recipe that duplicates/comes close to
Whitbread Pale Ale? It's my favorite pale but one could go broke at
$1.25 to $1.50 a bottle! TIA.
Please e-mail at clarkpj1 at aplmail.jhuapl.edu
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1345, 02/08/94