HOMEBREW Digest #1345 Tue 08 February 1994

Digest #1344 Digest #1346

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Re : dryhopping (Conn Copas)
  More oaky beers (please) ("Daniel F McConnell")
  Beechwood aging/thanks for yeast culturing advice (Paul Beard)
  definition of pH (Mark A Fryling)
  Homebrewing BBS (aew)
  carboy tipping (George Tempel)
  glutaraldehyde (Chris Lovelace)
  troubleshoot (RONALD DWELLE)
  report: dry hopping in a cornelius keg ("when the cold winds blow, it'll ease your mind  07-Feb-1994 0951 -0500")
  annoying low-fills (07-Feb-1994 0956 -0500)
  Oh, all right... ("Steven W. Smith")
  Re: More Wood (Jim Busch)
  glutaraldehyde ("John L. Isenhour")
  World-Wide Web for HBD at U of M? ("Mark S. Woods")
  used kegs (Mark Bunster)
  Cider Digest address (yeebot)
  More on Oxygen ("Palmer.John")
  Am I doomed (GNT_TOX_)
  re: laaglander in starters ("Edward F. Loewenstein")
  Hop Back (npyle)
  Fate of Ballantine India Pale Ale ("Roger Deschner  ")
  Lager Procedures (freidin)
  Belgian Glassware Info (Jay Hersh)
  2 questions - pH test papers and lactic acid (Ed Oriordan)
  Copper, and Zima (COYOTE)
  Oakay already. (COYOTE)
  glutaraldehyde (Paul Boor)
  extract usage (JEBURNS)
  Digest catalog. (Eugene Zimmerman)
  HSA/Belgian Chocolate/Closed boils == bad beer? (korz)
  Whitbread Pale Ale Recipe ("PJ Clark")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 11:56:47 GMT From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk> Subject: Re : dryhopping Al, in repentant mode, writes: > Sure. I've tasted quite a few Engish and American Barleywines that have > a significant hop nose... despite having to compete with all those esters. > I feel that East Kent Goldings have a resiny/candylike aroma that can often > be mistaken for an ester. I typically mistake the influence of Goldings for an unusual malt. Maybe we should also be distinguishing between hop flavour and aroma here. A barleywine like Gales Prize Old Ale is chock full of Goldings flavour, but this is slightly different from aroma. I personally doubt whether any barleywine can have significant aroma, in the strictest sense, on account of its maturity. That is not to say that dry hopping could not have contributed to its flavour. Return to table of contents
Date: 7 Feb 1994 07:20:05 -0500 From: "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel_F_McConnell at mailgw.surg.med.umich.edu> Subject: More oaky beers (please) Subject: More oaky beers (please) Louis K. Bonham writes (in summary): >Recently there's been a bit of traffic regarding oak barrels and >aging, mostly between the "oak imparts tannins; nobody would use >it" crowd vs. the "I've seen lots of oak beer casks; so it must be >OK" crowd. Ok, let me introduce another crowd. I LIKE the flavor of oak and sometimes add white oak chips TO THE BOIL. I've even added it late (aroma oaks?). I find that the toasty/vanilla flavor goes well with a brown or mild ale if a very light hand is used. It can lend a subtle dimension if the perception is at or slightly above threshold. It also works well with Viennas or amber lagers. Of course, these beers are not intended to be brewed to any style or to do well in competitions, they are simply intended to be enjoyed. I think they would confuse a judge or two ;-) On a related note, in addition to oak, pecan and chestnut do wonderful things as well as nutshells, nutmeats, morels, chantrells.....but now I'm way off the topic! DanMcC Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 08:07:10 -0500 From: paul.beard at gatekeeper.mis.tridom.com (Paul Beard) Subject: Beechwood aging/thanks for yeast culturing advice >> AB uses Beachwood to help deal with their overly-flocculant yeast and not for any flavor it may impart. Not that I know enough to get into a flame war, but Michael Jackson shows in his Beerhunter episode on German beers that one style of beer is aged with great slabs of beechwood in the casks. It might have been a rauchbier (smoked) but don't take it as gospel. He also mentioned on the radio intervew he did some weeks back that AB goes to a lot of trouble over Bud, citing the Beechwood aging, but confessed that it was hard to discern any improvement. Also, thanks for the advice on yeast scavenging/culturing. I have a big starter ready to work with. And check out Spencer's Beer Page on the WWW; I've been using it as my Home Page for a few weeks: a guaranteed smile! - -- Paul Beard AT&T Tridom, 840 Franklin Court, Marietta, GA 30067 404 514-3798 * FAX: 404 429-5419 * tridom!paul.beard/beardp at tridom.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 8:22:08 EST From: Mark A Fryling <mfryling at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Subject: definition of pH Hi All, Just thought I'd use one of my Analytical Chemistry references to clear up any confusion about pH and what it means. For documentation sake, I am a PhD candidate in analytical chemistry and the following is a direct quote from a good quantitative analysis text "Quantitative Chemical Analysis by Daniel C. Harris". The definition of pH is pH = -log(Activity of H+) = [H+]*(gamma H+) Where [H+] = Concentration of hydrogen ion in (moles/liter) gamma H+ = activity coefficient for hydrogen ion. When we measure the pH we are measuring the negative log of the hydrogen ion activity, not the concentration. To simplify life however, we will normally use the incomplete form when we speak of pH pH = -log[H+] Just a few addditional notes for those of you who like this kind of stuff: 6.02x10^23 molecules = one mole of molecules In general whenever you see a small p preceeding a variable it means take minus the log of that variable. In practical terms, all that is probably necessary to know is that for aqueous solutions, the normal pH range is 0 - 14 where a lower measured pH means that you have a higher concentration of free hydrogen ions and the solution is therefore more acidic. If anyone out there is interested in more detailed info. you can send a request to me and I'll point you in the direction of some books that have more about the subject of acid/base chemistry than any normal person would ever want to know. See Ya, Mark Fryling Dept. of Chemistry Ohio State Univ. <mfryling at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 94 08:52:51 -0500 From: aew at spitfire.unh.edu Subject: Homebrewing BBS Mitchell Evans asks about homebrewing BBSs: Well, I started up a Homebrewing BBS about 1 month ago, interest has been slowly creeping in, although I haven't as yet advertised in any of the 3 local homebrew stores. I keep some HBD's on-line as well as other stuff from the homebrewing archive. I'll let you know how things are going in 6 months. Usually that's how long it takes to get a caller base established on a BBS. Oh, here's a shameless plug for this (free to call, totally non-profit - in fact money losing) BBS: Musketeer's Tavern BBS - (603) 964-5860 - Homebrewing, Wargaming and Paintball SIG's (Special Interest Groups) With discussion areas and file areas. Now back to your regularly scheduled Beer talk....... -Allan Wright Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 1994 09:06:36 +0000 (U) From: George Tempel <tempel at MONMOUTH-ETDL1.ARMY.MIL> Subject: carboy tipping carboy tipping >To George Tempel, who is worried about tipping over his carboy while sampling for hydrometer readings: sit on the floor and HUG your carboy. It's a wonderful bonding experience and you can be sure you won't spill any this way (or at any rate if you do it will be on yourself! -- hmmm, beer by osmosis? beer rub-down??) i'm well aware of the bonding experience. My wife keeps telling me to leave the beer alone! Get away from the carboy, blah blah blah...but she _does_ love the beer. I wasn't worried...i use a glass turkey baster. The other fellow was worrying! l8r... ty (george tempel, home = netromancr at aol.com) "kiss cats: the dachshund and the deer are one"--wallace stevens Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 09:28:03 -0500 From: lovelace at pop.nih.gov (Chris Lovelace) Subject: glutaraldehyde In HBD 1343, Mark Garetz asked about using glutaraldehyde as a sterilant. I've been using a product called Metricide to disinfect EEG electrodes. I've also used glutaraldehyde for fixing (solidifying) brain tissue in rats before removing it. The solutions used for sanitizing contain only 2% glutaraldehyde, and will kill most any germs and other assorted nasties with a 45 min. contact time (it will completely sterilize with a 10 hr. contact time). As Ed Hitchcock said in HBD 1344, it might be risky using this stuff with any food-related items. When I used glutaraldehyde as a fixative when perfusing rats, I treated it with respect (if you cut your finger and get this stuff on it, you'll wish it was only salt water!). The product Mark mentioned, Cidex, is not currently available. I was told by a company that normally sells it that the EPA is doing some testing on it and other glutaraldehyde disinfectants, but they should be back on the market soon. The only one I know of that's currently being sold is Metricide. It had crossed my mind to use this stuff in my brewing operation, but putting any substance this nasty anywhere near my beer makes me nervous. Also, some of these glut. disinfectants contain a surfactant to make them last longer (without it, the stuff is reusable for 14 days, with it, it lasts 28 days). I was told by a couple of other EEG technicians that, in some of these products (including the Metricide that I'm currently using), this stuff can form a thin layer on the EEG electrodes I'm disinfecting, so they may not work as well. This leads me to believe that the 28-day solution could leave behind a film, even on well rinsed items. Also, this stuff gives off fumes that are probably carcinogenic. So, ventilation and a covered container are essential. So, the 14-day solution (without the surfactant) might be safe to use, as long as everything is rinsed very, very, very, very, well afterwards. Even so, I'm sticking to the tried and true sanitizers that I know hasn't made anyone keel over. Chris _________________________________________________________________ Chris Lovelace LOVELACE at POP.NIH.GOV LOVELACE at HELIX.NIH.GOV National Institute of Mental Health, Laboratory of Psychology and Psychopathology Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, Department of Medical and Clinical Psychology Bethesda, Md U.S.A. _________________________________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 94 09:38:52 EST From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE) Subject: troubleshoot Over the weekend, I bottled my latest and a sample revealed a big problem. I think the problem comes from one of three variables. The one variable I have no knowledge/experience with is: What happens to the brew when you use a plastic fermenter and oxygen passes through the plastic into the fermenting wort? How would the oxygen affect the taste? I suspect one of the other two variables is the real problem, but I'd like to know theories/experiences others have had with plastic/oxygen. TIA Ron Dwelle (dweller at gvsu.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 94 10:07:36 EST From: carlsont at GVSU.EDU (TODD CARLSON) Subject: Re: pH FYI The origin of the term pH was debated a month or so ago on the internet chemstry education discussion group (chemed-l). As I recall there was no difinitive answer but the general consensus is that it came from potential Hydrogen. But potential could be translated from any of 5 or 6 languages and no one really knows remembers who thought of it first. SO -- If us chemists can't figure it out, us brewers really shouldn't bother. HOWEVER Mr "t's" review of pH from Saturday was fine with one exception. Hydrogen ion concentrations must be in moles/liter (not ppm or ppb) where a mole of H+ weighs 1.0 g. But since a liter is asumed to be 1000 g in a part per whaterver unit, the previously reported calculation were 1000 times too big. Not a flame I'm a chemistry teacher It's a dirty job but somebody's got to do it. todd carlsont at gvsu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 09:56:19 EST From: "when the cold winds blow, it'll ease your mind 07-Feb-1994 0951 -0500" <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com> Subject: report: dry hopping in a cornelius keg About 4-5 weeks ago, I asked HBD what the wisdom was w.r.t. dry hopping beer in the keg. The majority of the posts ranged from 1/2 oz to 1 oz. I just tapped the keg. It is a light porter, I guess that is the best way to describe it. I dry hopped it with 1 oz Kent Goldings plugs in a muslin bag, sunk to the bottom with a big glass marble. The beer conditioned in the keg for a period of 3-4 weeks. There isn't too much of a noticible hop nose to the beer - I was actually counting on a very strong hop nose. Then again, I tend to be more of a hophead then the average homebrewer. Next time I do this, I am going to _double_ the dosage: i'll use 2 ounces of leaf hops. I want to _smell_ them hops!!!! :-H JC Ferguson Littleton MA USA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 10:06:34 EST From: 07-Feb-1994 0956 -0500 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com> Subject: annoying low-fills When going out to a bar, I always enjoy getting some 'good brew'. But, for good brew, you typically have to pay a top price. Here in the Boston area, $3.25-$3.75 a pint (16oz) is typical. I don't mind paying that price, but when I order a pint, I want 16oz, not 13oz! It is amazing how many people are getting ripped off out here. If the glass isn't filled with beer (without the head) right to the very top of the glass, the you are not getting 16 oz of beer. Ever pour a 12oz bottle of beer in one of those straight-sided 16oz glasses? It damn near fills it, maybe 1/2" below the top of the glass. That is how lots and lots of pints are sold here in this area. They charge you a price for 16oz and you are getting 12-13oz of beer!! That last 1/2 inch of the glass is about 4 oz of beer! Recently I was at the Union Street Bar (?) in Newton and I ordered a Harpoon winter ale. It was a pitiful pint, as i like to say, maybe 13 oz of beer. I asked the bartender to top it off, and he said, "that's the way we pour them here." He didn't get a tip. Several bartenders usually oblige me, although I sense a bit of unwillingness sometimes. Maybe I'm jaded having been to England where they are very careful to give you a full, 20oz pint of beer, exactly what you pay for. I'd love to mount a campaign for "correct" pints, but have no idea how to do it. I speculate that these bars do it intentionally, playing on the lack of attention/concern from their patrons. It is a sad ripoff, I think. Comments? JC Ferguson Littleton MA USA Return to table of contents
Date: 07 Feb 1994 08:31:42 -0700 (MST) From: "Steven W. Smith" <SMITH_S at gc.maricopa.edu> Subject: Oh, all right... tlyons at netcom.com (Tom Lyons) writes: > >And ANOTHER reason one should clearly label/disclose ingredients such >as that is that some people simply choose not to partake. ... So, you're saying I _shouldn't_ enter my "LSD Oatmeal Stout" in the GABF??? You should see _all the colors_ when you hold it up to the light! Personally, I suspect that someone brewing a cannabis beer would be more likely to run around wearing a sign reading "ARREST ME, PLEASE!" than clearly label it and/or enter it in a competition, but one never knows, eh? "Relax", I think that the probability approaches zero that you'll encounter such a brew accidentally. _,_/| \o.O; Steven W. Smith, Programmer/Analyst =(___)= Glendale Community College, Glendale Az. USA U SMITH_S at GC.BITNET smith_s at gc.maricopa.edu Mah'-ee huv'-erk-raft iz fuhl ov ee'-ulz Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 10:34:06 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com> Subject: Re: More Wood Another data point wrt wooden casks. During my travels through Germany, one of the most consistent findings was that when a beer passed from "ooooh thats really good" to "ohmygod, this is heaven", the differnece often was that the beer was dispensed directly from a wooden barrel, ala Andechs. It may be pitch lined, but it sure works wonders for the beer. This is still practiced by the Munich breweries for the Doppels, and some incredible Franconian Darks were also dispensed this way. Darryl, did you find the same? Best, Jim Busch Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 1994 10:36:24 CST From: "John L. Isenhour" <isenhour at lambic.fnal.gov> Subject: glutaraldehyde Mark says: >Like I say, I've only looked at the data for a few minutes. >Glutaraldehyde is listed in my Fisher catalog but that's as far >as I've got. I'll look in my Merck Index tonight. But does >anyone else have any experience or data on this stuff? I use it for hood/instrument cleaning and for yeast fridge (especially around the seals). I cut it down to 2-4% (I have 40% stuff, it pretty dangerous if not handled properly) and it works really well. I have not gotten around to using it for kegs etc. -john Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 10:32:34 -0600 (CST) From: "Mark S. Woods" <woodsman at genesis.mcs.com> Subject: World-Wide Web for HBD at U of M? Yesterday somebody posted a message stating that an HBD archive and thread browser had been set up at the University of Michigan for use with WWW. I tried telnetting to UM last night, following the sketchy instructions, but was unable to login (using 'WWW' as a login). Let's see, I don't have the address, but I think it was: gulardi.itn.med.umich.edu. If you've found a way in, or know that I'm doing something stupid, please let me know. This sounds like a great resource for HBDers and I'd like to check it out. Mark Woods woodsman at genesis.mcs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 11:43:16 EST From: mbunster at hibbs.vcu.edu (Mark Bunster) Subject: used kegs I've checked my archives (which run back about 6 months) and the ftp site, and was unable to find an answer for this question: Is there a place other than begging your soda distributor for buying used SS kegs on the atlantic seaboard?? And I've seen SS mean both straight-sided and stainless steel. Someone moaned about how it's all aluminum now--if you don't boil in it does that matter? The reconditioning keggin_info was helpful. My partner is thinking of shelling out $200 for a complete kit. Fair/great/awful price? Thanks--how do most folks ship entry bottles for judging? Not just the carrier (I know how to lie to UPS now), but how you package it and what your results will. I enjoyed the oven debate on sanitizing bottles--maybe one on packing peanuts would be fun. - -- Mark Bunster |I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV. Survey Research Lab--VCU | Richmond, VA 23284 | mbunster at hibbs.vcu.edu | (804) 367-8813/353-1731 | Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 94 03:15:11 EST From: yeebot at aol.com Subject: Cider Digest address Thanks again to everyone who replied to my request for Lambic Digest info! In return, here's the Cider Digest info: (Unfortunately, recent volume has been very low) Send articles for submission to cider at x.org Send subscribe, unsubscribe and address change requests to cider-request@ x.org Raw digest archives available for ftp only on export.x.org Brew easy, Mike Yee Return to table of contents
Date: 7 Feb 1994 08:56:51 U From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com> Subject: More on Oxygen Hello Group, Let me start by saying that I did not intend to speak as an Expert on Wort Oxidation. As an engineer, I am used to doing a literature search, reading, and then putting together a summary position. But, as my wife constantly assures me, I Could Be Wrong! That said, Let me thank Al for his inputs. Jonathon Knight wanted to know more of what oxygen can do: According to Dr. Fix in the Zymurgy Trouble Shooting Issue ('87): Acetaldehyde is a precuror to ethanol during the fermentation process. Ethanol can also be oxidized to form Acetaldehyde...produced by oxidation, it produces unpleasant acetic-cider tones. Also from the same issue, Dave Schroedl writes about Oxidation: The oxidized/stale flavor is caused by a compound called Trans-2-nonenal. The sherrylike-winey flavor by acetaldehyde and furfural compounds. The rotton pineapple-garbage (flavor) is caused by higher alcohols and the same compounds as listed abouve. I was interested in the Pasteur Effect and that oxygen introduced during fermentation can produce more Diacetyl. More good reasons not to allow aeration once fermentation has started. These effects are why good siphoning practices are encouraged when transferring beer to a secondary or for bottling. Any splashing while it is exposed to the air during transfer can cause more oxygen to be absorbed. A good practice during siphoning is to do it slowly at first by keeping the difference in elevation small, and keep the outlet below the surface so that there is no turbulance as the container fills. John Palmer palmer#d#john at ssdgwy.mdc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 12:11 EST From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU> Subject: Am I doomed Friday night I set out to make a good Bohemian Pilsner. I bought Wyeast Bohemian Lager Yeast a couple of days before and the bag had puffed up nicely. Friday night I cooked the extract and the hops and put the stuff in a plastic water jug to begin primary fermentation. I Added the yeast at 65F and placed a cork, size 8 1/2, and a fermentation lock on the jug. On Sunday, I finally started seeing a little bit of foam on the surface. I went out for the day and at 6:30pm, the foam and CO2 pressure had blown the airlock right off the fermenter. I sanitized a hose and placed in the hole in the cork. All was going well, but the hose was a tad on the loose side and stuff was coming out the cork. So, I decided to push the hose in a little deeper and POP, the cork fell into the beer! I quickly sanitized a glass and placed over the opening to keep any nasties from falling in. Is my beer doomed? And please, stop laughing. It could happen to anyone.... Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 94 11:26:39 CST From: "Edward F. Loewenstein" <SNREDLOW at MIZZOU1.missouri.edu> Subject: re: laaglander in starters Greetings, I have had the same experience as Mark Woods concerning yeast starters made with Laaglander DME, NO APPARENT FERMENTATION, not a single burp from the airlock, NOTHING!!! However, like most other things, don't worry, use the starter. I have pitched these unassuming starters into over eight different 5-gallon batches and have had good starts (carboy bubbling merrily away within six hours) in every instance. These flat starters occurred with three different yeast strains, WYeast american ale, Wyeast london ale, and yeast cultured from a Chimay bottle. The specific gravity of the starter does not seem to matter either, I have tried from 1.020 to 1.045 and still no bubbles. It certainly seems to be associated with the Laaglander; can anyone comment as to why? I'm not concerned (since the starters work), just curious. Ed Loewenstein SNREDLOW at MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU University of Missouri Forestry Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 11:24:37 MST From: npyle at n33.stortek.com Subject: Hop Back I have received a couple of requests for info on my hop back, and I thought it might be of general interest to you gadget freaks out there: My hopback is based on the Kinney Baughman model from the Zymurgy Gadgets and Equipment Special Issue. Kinney recommends using a 1-quart mason jar for the extra capacity. Mine is a 1-pint mason jar. It will hold 1/2 ounce of loose hops, maybe more if I pack them. The 1-quart would be nice. Kinney drills holes in the top of the jar and installs grommets for an air-tight seal (this is important). I acquired a large rubber stopper (green) similar to, but much bigger than, the stoppers used on carboys. This stopper was punched in a machine shop so that two 3/8" copper tubes could be pushed through. I think the rubber stopper is more reliable, but the lid/grommets should work fine. The inflow pipe goes to the bottom of the jar and the outflow pipe pulls liquid from the top of the jar. The outflow pipe has part of copper scrubber clamped on with piece of wire, and then around that is a nylon hop bag tied on to the pipe. This works as a good filter to keep the hops out of the CF chiller. Kinney solders a 1/2" copper end cap onto the outflow pipe of his hop-back. It is used, I believe, just to keep the scrubber and bag from slipping off the end. I just flared the end of the outflow pipe for this same purpose. To use it, I preheat it with hot water to avoid temperature shock, then fill it with loose hops. Next, push on the stopper and make the connections to kettle and chiller. Finally, start the flow and watch it fill. It has the added benefit of filtering out hotbreak from the kettle. The original commercial hop-backs were designed to filter out the kettle hops (get the hops back) and the hot break as well. A final note: I include the hop-back hops in my IBU calculations, as if they were in the boil for the entire time it takes to run the wort through (about 15 minutes in my case). Why? The temperature of the wort is near boiling, and the movement of the wort through the hops is similar to the boiling action. The first time I used this gadget, I thought "HSA", because hot wort is moving through a vessel partially full of air. I later read that the steam coming off the wort is enough to keep the oxygen down and that it doesn't appear to cause problems in commercial operations. I have had no noticable HSA problems and it is true that the jar fills with steam and the air is, of course, pushed out through the chiller. Norm Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 12:01:42 CST From: "Roger Deschner " <U52983%UICVM at UIC.EDU> Subject: Fate of Ballantine India Pale Ale Ballantine IPA was, after many, many corporate buyouts and takeovers, produced in the Fort Wayne, Indiana Falstaff brewery, owned by General Brewing. This was the former Berghoff brewery built by the famous Chicago restaurant family that now owns the Huber brewery in Monroe, Wisconsin. Anyway, the old Berghoff plant was a creaking, leaking dinosaur suffering from years of deferred maintenance, and so General decided to close it and tear it down. They moved production of the Ballantine brands to their well-maintained, modern, efficient (and even more historic) Pabst brewery in Milwaukee. We still get it from time to time here in the Chicago area, and it is basically the same beer, a pretty good effort for a mass beer factory. However, I believe that they are producing quite a bit less of it than they did in Fort Wayne. Microbreweries have cut into B-IPA sales considerably. General has always been somewhat of an enigma among brewery holding companies - occasional success simply stupefies them. They really didn't know how to handle, or capitalize upon, the attention the beer geek crowd was paying to Ballantine IPA in the late 1980's, and they probably blew a chance to make some money on it. They also have been relatively slow to try to capitalize upon the recent success their flagship Pabst Blue Ribbon brand has been having at recapturing some of its former large market share in the Midwest, and have just recently alloted an actual advertizing budget for PBR. Strange. Roger Deschner University of Illinois at Chicago R.Deschner at uic.edu =============== "Civilization was CAUSED by beer." ===================== Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 1994 12:23:23 CST From: freidin at mv3600.chem.nwu.edu Subject: Lager Procedures I have decided to take advantage of the Chicago weather and make an outdoor lager. Since this is my first attempt at a lager, I'm not sure exactly what to do. I plan on pitching room temperature yeast into room temperature wort in the primary (plastic) fermenter, then moving the fermenter outdoors, shielded from the wind and sun. After fermentation begins (2-3 days) I plan on racking to the secondary (glass), which I can encase in styrofoam. Questions: Any problems with my plans? How long should I expect to lager prior to bottling? Is there anything special I need to do at bottling time? Since I am about a month behind in reading the HBD, private E-mail would be appreciated. Thanks in advance Howard Freidin Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 1994 13:48:36 EST From: Jay Hersh <hersh at x.org> Subject: Belgian Glassware Info Someone was looking for info on Belgian Glassware either here or in r.c.b but since this gets cross posted there I figured I'd just one stop it here... Venberg & Dewulf 52 Pioneer St. Cooperstown, NY 13326 607-547-8184 had a flier in some info on Beglian Beers they import which also had info on some styles of Belgian Galssware. Styles they had.... Scaldis Snifter, Duvel, Affligem, Rodenbach and Jenlain and said they'd have Westmalle Chalices soon (this was 6 months ago so they probably have them now). Prices varied by quantity so I won't post em here.... Enjoy, JaH - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hopfen und Malz, Gott erhalts Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 13:48:32 -0500 From: edo at marcam.com (Ed Oriordan) Subject: 2 questions - pH test papers and lactic acid Question 1 - I just started using some Crosby and Baker pH test strips that I bought about 3 years ago. They are enclosed in a little glass tube. I find them very hard to use. Do these go bad? Or is it just me that has a heck of a time matching the color of the strip to the one on the instructions. I know my tap is 7.0 (from using an aquarium pH test kit), but I have a tough time figuring this out with the strips. Could they have gone bad? I don't want to buy more unless these could have gone bad. Question 2 - Along the same lines, for acidifying my sparge water I recently got some lactic acid. Based upon the fact that I am not comfortable with the pH readings I can get currently, could somebody give me a ballpark idea on how much to use for acidifying 4 gallons of VERY soft water. Is it more likely to be .5 tsp of lactic acid or 2 tsp lactic acid? Miller mentions mixing 2 tsp in 3 cups water, but doesn't explain if you are then supposed to use just a little of this mix, or most of the mix. In case you are wondering why I am using lactic acid ---- I am using lactic acid because Miller highly recomends it. I use gypsum in my strike water to adjust the pH, calcium and sulfate, but cannot use it in the sparge water to adjust pH because I would then have to much calcium and sulfate. I am not expecting a lot of responses on this (as it is probably not the most exciting of questions) so if you have any knowledge of the above, please email me. TIA Ed O' edo at marcam.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 1994 11:53:10 -0600 (MDT) From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu> Subject: Copper, and Zima I've observed a strange thing. My cooler, mash tun has a copper manifold dealio in the bottom. I also have a copper tube which extends upward and has a sprinkler attached. What I've observed is this: The copper UNDER the mash stays shiny, while the copper ABOVE the mash becomes darkened and has a filmy coating. When rubbed on the fingers and sniffed- it has a strange metallicy sort of smell. Not something I like, or want in my beer. I'm presuming this is a matter of oxidation making the copper darker, and the acidity of the mash maintaining a clean copper. Like dropping an old penny into a vinegar bath. So: Question here is, should I worry? Should I /could I do anything about it. I guess I could rinse the copper in a mild acid bath. Did I get the wrong kind of copper perhaps? Am I braindead (don't answer that) *** Zima: Found some in CA over x-mas. Clear as a whistle. Taste? Yes it has taste. Have you ever tried Squirt or any of those citrusy-grapefruit like sodas? Add a shot of vodka and there you have it. Zima. Malt beverage? Hah....maybe a long time ago (pre-processing). Ya sure. FIne. It may have a quality of it's own. More like a wine cooler- many of which are also malt-based beverages. But it ain't beer. I have one bottle I was gonna save- ya know , to sit on a shelf for looks-thru But toot suggested I save the cap from the opened one, fill it with water and re-cap. Looking at it- who would know! l8r. |\ |\| \/| \-\-\- John (The Coyote) Wyllie SLK6P at cc.usu.edu -/-/-/ | | ------ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 1994 11:41:07 -0600 (MDT) From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu> Subject: Oakay already. Alright alright...I give. Let go-a my arm already! Uncle! Uncle! I guess no-one gathers that any mention of the "big boys" should automatically have a :) attatched. I don't consider their "methods" of "brewing" to be anywhere near what we as homebrewers and micros and such consider "brewing techniques". Our goals are SO different. 1. Miller,Coors,Bud: Make a beer with no taste/no color. Sells LOTS of it! Then market other products w/logo! 2. Us and them. Make tasty, quality, varied brews of numerous differnt styles and flavors and colors. Enjoy it slowly. Just one spuds opinion. I was intending to kid about bud and beachwood. Sorry if it wasn't obvious enuf. As for the use of oak: if anyone followed before, the cask I have access to is from Hofbrau, so it's gonna be european oak. If it's been pitched, then so be it. Yes- american oak is very different. Ok...so maybe oak "flavor" isn't an essential of style, but just a coincidence of "packaging". But it does have a quality of it's own. It "can" make a contribution to a beers flavor. Some may not desire it, some may even be repulsed. The modern "cask-conditioning" is in steel, or (gasp!) aluminum. Ok. So it's easier to maintain. BUT: I will stand by the fact that an oak cask "Looks neat, and is fun to tap, and serve from!" Don't bother with it if you don't want, but I'll try it again, just for the halibut. I'm like that. Didn't intend to start a flame-wood-war or anything, and there are obviously less than precise statements being made (by me for one!) but that's what we're out here for. Sharing ideas, and occasionally-facts. As Blind Faith once said, "do what you like, dowhatyoulike" |\ |\| \/| \-\-\- John (The Coyote) Wyllie SLK6P at cc.usu.edu -/-/-/ | | ------ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 11:04:05 PST From: kdamrow at Thomas.COM (Kip Damrow) Subject: DISCOUNT TO HOMEBREWERS Hello HB'ers, Shameless plug time... but it's for a very good cause (Food Distribution Center of Orange Co.) Just a reminder to ALL HOMEBREWERS IN SOUTHERN CAL. The Karnival of Beers, Feb 19-20, at the Fullerton Hofbrau is offering a **DISCOUNT TO HOMEBREWERS** on price of admission. Call Russell Brent at the Hofbrau (714) 870-7400 for more info. Price of admission includes: collectors pint glass, buffet from award winning chef Horst Voelsing, sample over 30 micro beers from 15 breweries. Souvenir booth featuring gifts and collectables from 25 micro's from around the country. (glassware & T-shirts from: Appleton Brewing, Otto Bros.; Alaskan Brewing; Sea Dog Brewing; Stevens Point; Full Sail and many others!) This years star studded line-up for beer the tasting and certified judging (Sat) includes: Anchor Brewery - San Fran, CA Sierra Nevada - Chico, CA Rogue Brewery - Newport, OR Portland Brewing Co. - Portland, OR Holy Cow! Casino, Cafe & Brewery - Las Vegas, NV Pete's Brewing Co. - Palo Alto, CA Grant's Brewery - Yakima, WA Anderson Valley - Boonville, CA Lost Coast Brewery - Eureka, CA Belmont Brewing Co (BBC) - Long Beach, CA Brewski's/Riptide Brewery - San Diego, CA Heritage Brewing Co - Dana Point, CA Rhino Chasers - Los Angeles, CA Okie Girl Restaurant & Brewery - Lebec, CA Thought you might want to know... Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 1994 13:12:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Paul Boor <PBOOR at BEACH.UTMB.EDU> Subject: glutaraldehyde Mark Garetz asked about glutaraldehyde as a sterilant. Glutaraldehyde is used as a tissue fixative in electronmicroscopy. At 1 to 2% concentrations it is a wonderfully fast fixative. It will fix your fingers if you handle it. It will fix your corneas if you handle even the dilutions outside of a hood for prolonged periods of time. I'll bet it is a great sterilant, but all diluting of it should be done in a hood. I don't think it's a good idea for use in brewing. paul boor Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 14:31:23 EST From: JEBURNS at ucs.indiana.edu Subject: extract usage I just finished bottling my first lager. It was a recipe that used Root Beer extract as a flavoring (thanks to those that supplied recipes) As I was looking over the instructions that came with the extract: Briefly mix extract with 4.5 lbs of regular sugar and warm water pitch Bread yeast and bottle. I have made this before a long time ago (before beer) and was wondering what stops these things from all blowing up? Some of the beer catalogs suggest using champagne yeast for their extracts. Either way with so much sugar it seems like a disaster waiting to happen. I didn't give it a second thought as a kid. We even used Lucky Lager stubby bottles, which are not a returnable but have pop-off tops. I think one bottle blew up. Anyway, just curious. I am thinking of using the rest of the extract to make some soda, but was going to use corn sugar (less) and either the champagne yeast or maybe an ale yeast. Would this combination produce the aforementioned hand-grenades? Dave internet jeburns at ucs.indiana.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 94 10:48:43 -0700 From: ezimmerm at master.uwyo.edu (Eugene Zimmerman) Subject: Digest catalog. Salutations! I am intrested in all the other breing related computer digests on the net, but haven't seen any others but this. I _know_ there are a bunch more. If people will send me brief info on any other brewing related digests on the net I'll catalog them and then post a clear and simple list. Please send: Digest Name How to Subscribe FTP Site for Digest Brief Description -- Who's welcome, etc. Gene in Laramie ezimmerm at uwyo.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 94 14:29 CST From: korz at iepubj.att.com Subject: HSA/Belgian Chocolate/Closed boils == bad beer? Doug writes: >After 8 batches, all of which have been slowly poured through a funnel with >strainer (to remove hops, grain particles, etc) into 3 gals of cold water I >have never experienced any HSA (at least that I know of). I use a sanitized I think that you may be surprised by the difference if you cool before any aeration. I was. Initially, I cooled by adding a gallon of boiled, chilled icewater. This made such a difference, I immediately built an immersion wort chiller. I suggest you try chilling somehow and then see what a difference it can make. >major confussion (on my part) but how does one get HSA when the pot is no >longer on the flame or burner? I was led to understand that HSA would most >likely occur through overly strong stirring during the boil. What exactly >does HSA do to the taste of the beer? Mine all seem great (IMHO) if not a >lot hoppier than most would choose. Is the HSA a problem in the strainer >due to boiling the entire 5 gals rather than a concentrated wort such as I >am making? It can occur anytime the beer is hot (generally most agree that anything hotter than 80F is considered too hot) and is oxygenated. The flavor/aroma is sherrylike -- it's really obvious when you compare side-by-side. I don't know if concentrated wort would oxidize faster or slower than if you were doing a full boil, but I contend that it's a bad idea in both cases. ********** Michael writes: >still has me stumped. I am wondering if "Belgian" Chocolate might give a >stronger flavor than say a "British" Chocolate. Can anyone comment on whether The DeWolf-Cosyns Chocolate malt that we get here in the US is "debitterized" whatever that means. There apparently is also a "non-debitterized" version, but it's not imported. I have not used British Chocolate, but the DWC Chocolate malt, I feel, is much less astringent than Briess, which is the only other Chocolate malt that I've used. Please note that there are two brands of Belgian malts now imported into the US, so you may have the other one. Ask your retailer. The Belgian malt distributed through L.D.Carlson is not the DeWolf-Cosyns malt. I have no experience with the non-DWC Belgian malt. ********** Mark writes: >Al Korzonas wrote a few digests ago, and then there were comments >about boiling to drive off the hop aromatics, and Al had mentioned >that if one could figure out a way to boil and not drive off the >hop aromatics, then one would be a hero. > >In fact, it's been done. All it really takes is a covered boil. >This is not real practical for homebrewers, but it has been tried >on a commercial scale. This has a bunch of effects: It raises >the pressure, so raising the boiling point and increasing hop >utilization, and therefore allows shorter boiling times, a net >increase especially considering energy costs. ***BUT*** it has >not been adopted commercially. Why? Because the hop and malt >aromatics made decidely *BAD* beer. Tasters rejected it over- >whelmingly. Now this doesn't explain why late hops work, except >that maybe the aroma compounds are altered negatively by the long >boil times. Actually, I'll bet it was not hop aromatics that were the offending ones but rather compounds from the malt that made the beer "bad." I'd have to pull out my books and journals to check for more candidates, but offhand, I know that DMS is unpleasant at high levels, usually boiled-off in a standard "open-boil" and would be retained in a "closed-boil" system. DMS evaporation was exactly one of the reasons I had in mind when I said that there currently was no way to retain bittering hop aromatics in the boil. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: 7 Feb 1994 16:24:43 U From: "PJ Clark" <pj_clark1 at spacemail.jhuapl.edu> Subject: Whitbread Pale Ale Recipe Subject: Time:4:18 PM OFFICE MEMO Whitbread Pale Ale Recipe Date:2/7/94 Does anyone have an extract recipe that duplicates/comes close to Whitbread Pale Ale? It's my favorite pale but one could go broke at $1.25 to $1.50 a bottle! TIA. Please e-mail at clarkpj1 at aplmail.jhuapl.edu Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1345, 02/08/94