FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Yeast(s) for Kolsch (Lowell Hart)
  Yeast(s) for Kolsch (Lowell Hart)
  Brewing and Fermentation (Fletcher Bonds)
  Getting on via CompuServe (Timothy Staiano)
  Woman-Only Brewoffs (Conan-the-Librarian)
  Suggestions for counter-flow wort chiller (Rich_Lenihan)
  Glutaraldehyde!!! ("Ron Hart")
  CANNABIS BEER (LLDSC)
  Brewpubs in MT ("Timothy R. Peters")
  re: Twang (Dick Dunn)
  NDN:Homebrew Digest #1345 (February 08, 1994) (Network_Manager)
  Hop rhizome sources (Paul Jeffrey)
  Beer Finings ("Greg Eslinger")
  Beer, The Magazine (Paul Beard)
  troublshoot RD, Copper mash tun ("Dana S. Cummings")
  pH correction (Mark A Fryling)
  Lactic acid in sparge water ("Ron Hart")
  What's the definitive reference? (Derek Montgomery)
  no champagne yeast in rootbeer (Karl Horning)
  HDM Maltings (korz)
  Gluteraldehyde again... (Ed Hitchcock)
  cream ale (RONALD DWELLE)
  Re: Annoying low fills (Kelly Jones)
  Glutaraldehyde, flames, and not messing w/science (Edward H Hinchcliffe-1)
  Re: extract usage/Austin brew news (Jeff Benjamin)
  Hop AAU Content (Bob Guerin)
  Root Beer (Jack St Clair)
  Need help priming with wort... ("Michael L. Kovacs")
  Brewpub FAQ (Todd Jennings)
  HSA (Carl Howes)
  Motor for Malt Mill (msellman)
  Belgian malt comparison ? (Kelvin Kapteyn)
  Abbey recipes? (VIALEGGIO)
  carbonators ("Anton Verhulst")
  Re : wider membership (Conn Copas)
  Mike Schrempp, Agar versus gelatin (bickham)
  subscription (Bruce Wiggins)
  Beer on World Wide Web (Derrick Pohl)
  Wort Chiller Use (Pete Geib)
  WHERE IS BRITISH BEER FEST??? (S_TUTTLE)
  Help! Going to Florida (S_TUTTLE)
  No Subject Given (Simon Evans)
  Brew in Chicago (Mark A Fryling)


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  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
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If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
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Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 5 Feb 94 16:18:08 PST
From: lhart at CATI.CSUFresno.EDU (Lowell Hart)
Subject: Yeast(s) for Kolsch


Howdy,
I have been staring dully for a while now at some Kolsch recipes and
am contemplating brewing one. In my research into this style (in my
less-than-huge store of brew lore) I have become confused as to which
yeast to pitch, and how.
The two methods seem to be a)pitch a European-type ale yeast as usual
or b)pitch the ale yeast and then pitch a lager yeast before the
cold conditioning process begins, to attenuate things out. I'm asking
the HBD braintrust which is better. The second sounds like a good
way for me to screw things up, and I also note that this lager yeast
would not have the advantage of the initial wort aeration that the
first yeast has.
The next question is, of course, which yeast to use for either of these
operations. The two recipes in my Cat's Meow copy say Wyeast #1338,
European  Ale, but the Yeast FAQ sez that it works best at 70F, thus
implying that it wouldn't work well in the cold-conditioning phase.
The recently posted Kolsch recipe here on HBD doesn't specify. Again
to the Yeast FAQ, the only description that includes Kolsch are from
the Yeast Culture Kit, nos. A04 and A37, but they are also listed as
Alt yeasts,which I understood was something else entirely. Other
'European/German' ale yeasts listed are:Brewtek CL-40 Old German Ale,
Wyeast 1007 German Ale Yeast (works at 50-62F) and 1338 European Ale
Yeast, and Yeast Lab A06 Dusseldorf Ale Yeast (listed as an Alt).
The listing either doesn't specify temps. or has temps. that are
considerably higher then the temps. for cold conditioning (see
recent Kolsch recipe for example.) As to what yeast to use for
the second (lager yeast) pitching, I am clueless (but you have
probably figured that out by now.)
So, somebody please enlighten me. I appreciate your help, and the
HBD in general. Is there a Kolsch import with some nice little
yeast guys on the bottom that I can culture? Should I culture some
of St. Stan's Alt yeast, if that turns out to be the same thing?
I'll post if there is enough interest. Is anyone else out there
confused? I can start again...

Lowell Hart
San Joaquin WORThogs
Raketenflugplatz, Fresno
lhart at caticsuf.CSUFresno.edu


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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 94 17:51:09 PST
From: lhart at CATI.CSUFresno.EDU (Lowell Hart)
Subject: Yeast(s) for Kolsch

Howdy,
I have been staring dully for a while now at some Kolsch recipes and
am contemplating brewing one. In my research into this style (in myy
less-than-huge store of brew lore) I have become confused as to which
yeast to pitch, and how.
The two methods seem to be a)pitch a European-type ale yeast as usual
or b)pitch the ale yeast and then pitch a lager yeast before the
cold conditioning process begins to attenuate things out. I'm asking
the HBD braintrust which is better. The second sounds like a good
way for me to screw things up, and I also note that this lager yeast
would not have the advantage of the initial wort aeration that the
first yeast has.
The next question is, of course, which yeast to use for either of these
operations. The two recipes in my Cat's Meow copy say Wyeast #1338,
European  Ale, but the Yeast FAQ sez that it works best at 70F, thus
implying that it wouldn't work well in the cold-conditioning phase.
The recently posted Kolsch recipe here on HBD doesn't specify. Again
to the Yeast FAQ, the only description that includes Kolsch are from
the Yeast Culture Kit, nos. A04 and A37, but they are also listed as
Alt yeasts,which I understood was something else entirely. Other
'European/German' ale yeasts listed are:Brewtek CL-40 Old German Ale,
Wyeast 1007 German Ale Yeast (works at 50-62F) and 1338 European Ale
Yeast, and Yeast Lab A06 Dusseldorf Ale Yeast (listed as an Alt).
The listing either doesn't specify temps. or has temps. thatare
considerably higher then the temps. for cold conditioning (see
recent Kolsch recipe for example.) As to what yeast to use for
the second (lager yeast) pitching, I am clueless (but you have
probably figured that out by now.)
So, somebody please enlighten me. I appreciate your help, and the
HBD in general. Is there a Kolsch import with some nice little
yeast guys on the bottom that I can culture? Should I culture some
of St. Stan's Alt yeast, if that turns out to be the same thing?
I'll post if there is enough interest. Is anyone else out there
confused? I can start again...

Lowell Hart
San Joaquin WORThogs
Raketenflugplatz, Fresno
lhart at caticsuf.CSUFresno.edu

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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 14:15:59 -0800
From: fletchb at halcyon.halcyon.com (Fletcher Bonds)
Subject: Brewing and Fermentation

Question:  I know this Maillist is primarily for discussion concerning BEER, 
but I was curious if any of our Brewers were also winemakers?
______________________________________ 
|                                    | 
|      .--------------------.        |
|      | SNOWBOARD OR DIE!! |        |
|      '------------------' |        |
|                          \|        |
| ROSSI.             /  /   |        |
| SIMS             (( `  `           |
| MORROW           ((C   ~           |
| RIDE             )))  \ O\         |
| NITRO           (((|  |---         |
| K2          ____)))|  }((____      |
|            /   ((( \  / ))   \     |
|            |   )))) \/   (   |     |
- --------------------------------------


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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 17:29:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Timothy Staiano <tstaiano at ultrix.ramapo.edu>
Subject: Getting on via CompuServe

Could anyone help me with a dilemma?  My friend and I are avid 
(beginning) homebrewers.  I feel that this forum has given me great ideas 
and insights into all aspects of homebrewing.  However, as I am a college 
student and have access to Internet (and also the means to get onto 
here), he is not and does not know how to get on to the Homebrewing Forum 
via CompuServe.  Could anyone please post this information or perhaps 
e-mail me at tstaiano at ultrix.ramapo.edu

A million thanks.

Tim Staiano


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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 1994 15:19:51 -0800
From: pascal at netcom.com (Conan-the-Librarian)
Subject: Woman-Only Brewoffs


"Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 15:25:49 MST
 From: "Mark B. Alston" <c-amb at math.utah.edu>
 Subject: Re: Queen of Beer competition


"Does this strike anyone else as quite sexist and self defeating."

Yes, I am 100% in agreement with your analysis on both counts.


"In this era of eliminating the differences between the sexes this
 seems to be several steps backwards."

Kind of brain-dead ... sort of a 'tit for tat' tactic, more meant
to compel men to suffer the feeling of being left out that some
women might experience, than to generate feelings of equality, if
I understand it correctly.


"In fact there would be quite an outcry if there we a male only
 competition.  Or can you even imagine a "white" only competition!?!"

Bias is perfectly OK, so long as you are biased against the right
group of scapegoats. Mark, you're getting dangerously out of step
with consensus reality, here, and I *insist* that you stop thinking
for yourself and accept mindless politically correct pap, like the
rest of us ... or else the Thought Police will seek you out.

/-:


- -- richard


                Help ! I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body !!

   richard childers        san francisco, california        pascal at netcom.com

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Date: Mon, 07 Feb 1994 17:25:15 EST
From: Rich_Lenihan at firstclass.wellfleet.com
Subject: Suggestions for counter-flow wort chiller

For various reasons, I've decided to build a counter-flow wort chiller.  I
have a couple of
questions.  First, what diameter of copper tubing should I use - 1/4" ID or
3/8" ID?  It seems
to me that the 1/4" ID tubing would be more efficient  re: heat transfer
but I'm concerned 
about the possibility of the tubing becoming partly or completely clogged
with break material.
The 3/8" ID tubing is a little more expensive but less likely to clog. 
Also, while I could slow
down the wort flow through the wider tubing I would be hard pressed to
speed it up through
the narrower tubing.  Are there other factors I should consider?  I'm
planning to use a total
length of 15-20 ft.

Second,  I haven't decided what kind of fittings I'll use to seal the H2O
input and output.  I'm 
looking for something that is cheap, simple and leak-proof.  Any
suggestions welcome.

Third, at some point in the future I plan to connect the wort input side of
the chiller to an
outlet near the bottom of my boiler to acheive my ultimate goal - a closed
brewing system.
I figure threaded fittings at both sides with some kind of hose connecting
the two.  My question
is, what kind of hose should I use that would be easy to sanitize and
resistant to high temps?
If there's a better way of acheving this end, I'd love to hear it.

That's it.  While all answers are appreciated, I am especially interested
in answers of the 
form "This is what I did..." or "I've been doing this for 10 years and it
works for me..."

 -Thanks

 -Rich

rlenihan at wellfleet.com

p.s.  I've seen the FAQ and I still have questions...





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Date: 7 Feb 1994 19:00:26 U
From: "Ron Hart" <hart at axon.rutgers.edu>
Subject: Glutaraldehyde!!!

Subject:                                                      Time:6:49 PM
Glutaraldehyde!!!                                             Date:2/7/94
Mark Garetz writes in HBD 1343 about reading of glutaraldehyde as a
sterilant.  THAT SCARED ME.  I've used glutaraldehyde ("Wavicide" TM)
in my research lab for disinfecting cell culture equipment.  The label
says:
"The permissable exposure limit of glutaraldehyde in the atmosphere
is below 0.2 ppm"  and
"The use of rubber gloves when mixing or handling the product is
recommended.  Avoid contamination of food."
When we use it, we wear lab coats, safety glasses, rubber gloves
AND respirators.  This is serious stuff.
The stuff is great for killing everything from fungi to HIV, but
PLEASE, PLEASE don't let it touch anything that'll get into your 
BEER!
Ron Hart (hart at axon.rutgers.edu)
Rutgers University
Newark NJ



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Date: Monday,  7 February 94 18:20:20 CST
From: LLDSC at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu
Subject: CANNABIS BEER



Sounds interesting. Can't wait to give it a try.

What's the deal with all this talk about dosing somebody without telling
them? It's as if everyone immediately assumes that all stoners care about
is getting the rest of the world high. (well...)

In the first place, I'd never waste anything (not that I ever have any) on
somebody who wouldn't appreciate it. I'm glad that somebody out there is
implementing a hard nosed drug policy. When are you guys going to
start testing for homebrew? I seem to remember somewhere about alcohol
having an effect on the nervous system. Shouldn't that be classified as a
drug as well.


Flame away at me. Send it to me personal so we don't take up space.
Anybody else that wants to get more specific about recipies feel free
to write.  :)

                            Keep on truckin' in the free world,

                            SCOTT  LLDSC at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu

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Date: 08 Feb 94 00:02:02 EST
From: "Timothy R. Peters" <76307.3666 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Brewpubs in MT

I will be visiting Montana soon. Does anybody know of any brewpubs in
Bozeman or Missoula? I am also interested in your opinions of said
places. Private e-mail o.k.

Thanks,
T.R. Peters
76307.3666 at compuserve.com


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Date: 7 Feb 94 23:17:45 MST (Mon)
From: rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: re: Twang

Steve Scampini wrote:
> A friend just reviewed my first batch of beer...[good reviews]...
> ...BUT he said it had "your typical extract beer
> TWANG".  No amount of prodding could pry any further description of 
> what the heck TWANG was... no, not buttery, no not too sweet, no not
> infected, no not... you know EXTRACT TWANG...

One thought on either side of this.

First, there are things that can give a tangy/sour taste to an extract
beer.  Not long ago, I came across some very old dry malt extract.  It had
been sealed fairly well, but it was *years* old.  I thought I might just
use it up, but I tasted it first.  It had a distinct fruity sour taste--
still quite sweet, but also this sour component--could have passed for a
bad imitation fruit drink.  (Yes, I tossed it...composted it, actually.)
I don't know what begets the taste, but obviously if it gets really strong
in very old malt, there could be some of it in slightly-old extract.

On the other side:  Many years ago, Michael Lewis was speaking at an AHA
convention in Boulder, and took a few moments to remind people of how easy
it is to let subjectivity intrude.  Now, back then "everybody knew" that
using too much corn sugar instead of malt would give the beer a "cidery"
taste.  (It didn't _per_se_, of course.  It gave less body, which changed
the overall character.)  But we all "knew" that.  He set out to debunk that
myth with some tests they'd done, but he also related a typical dialogue
among homebrewers that went something like this:
    "Yep, this is quite a fine brew!"
    "Especially for an extract beer."
    "Yes, it's a good extract beer."
    ...
    "I do believe I can taste some cidery-ness in it, though."
    "It's some of that corn-sugar cidery taste."
    ...
    "Cidery as hell, ain't it?"
(I'm relating it in my own style, not his.)  I wish I had written it down
as he said it.  Still, to this day among one group of my friends, we use
"Yup, Cidery as hell!" in any discussion to point out to somebody that he's
being influenced more by the persuasive drift of words than by the facts.
- ---
Dick Dunn    rcd at eklektix.com   -or-   raven!rcd    Boulder, Colorado USA
   ...Mr Natural says, "Get the right tool for the job!"

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Date: Tue, 08 Feb 1994 03:58:30 EST
From: Network_Manager at mailstop.telesat.ca
Subject: NDN:Homebrew Digest #1345 (February 08, 1994)

Your mail to the Microsoft Mail Server could not be fully
delivered!   Reasons listed below!   It has been deleted.




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Date: Sun, 6 Feb 1994 11:17:05 +0200 (WET)
From: Paul Jeffrey <mspaulj at olive.mscc.huji.ac.il>
Subject: Hop rhizome sources

Hi there,

I have only recently subscribed to the Digest and am very happy to see 
such a lively and frindly forum for things 'malty' and 'hoppy'. 
Being an ex pat Englishman living in Israel, I take my brewing 
seriously (the shops here are pretty bereft of Theakstons Old P.!!) and 
despite the obvious temperature control problems, I turn out the odd 
decent batch.

Anyway, enough banter and on with a couple of hoppy queries. Many of the
back issues that I have looked at refer to the growing of hops from rhizomes
that seem to be widely available in North America (e.g. 'Freshops'). Does 
anybody know of any sources of hop rhizomes in the U.K. ? 

Secondly, in his now seminal book on hops, Neve mentions a strain of 
the hop plant that grows in China below the 40 degrees latitude mark. 
Can this strain be used for brewing ? 

I would also be interested to hear from anyone who has successfuly grown 
traditional hop varieties below the 40 degrees latitude mark, maybe with 
the aid of artificial light or coverings ??

Many thanks etc.

PaulJ.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Paul Jeffrey		mspaulj at olive.mscc.huji.ac.il
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////










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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 94 05:24:21 MST
From: "Greg Eslinger" <eslinger at saifr00.ateng.az.honeywell.com>
Subject: Beer Finings


I recently bought a Victorian Bitter kit and found a packet of Beer finings
in it.  The directions say to add the beer finings before bottling.  I am ready
to bottle now,  but am worried about contamination when adding the finings.

What do beer finings do?  Are they really necessary, and should I worry about 
contamination when adding them?


Greg Eslinger
eslinger at saifr00.ateng.az.honeywell.com

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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 07:55:42 -0500
From: paul.beard at gatekeeper.mis.tridom.com (Paul Beard)
Subject: Beer, The Magazine

My young wife grabbed a copy of this rag for me yesterday, and at first
glance it's nice. Lots of info on fine beers, plenty of slick ads for
distributors, showing wondrous products.

The last page, "The Beer Baron," told the tale. Someone wrote to ask if he
could save money brewing his own beer. The quick short answer was no, that
at $100 for an extract kit and $1000s for a grain setup, the amortization
would take years, and besides most homebrewers make lousy beer anyway.

In other words, buy all the products you see advertised in our magazine,
and if you live in some cultural wasteland and can only look at the
pictures, hard cheese.

I guess you can tell I won't be subscribing. I can't see the appeal of a
magazine about drinking beer without at least touching on homebrewing,
because once you examine the flavor profile, it seems a real beer lover
would want to emulate/modify an enjoyable flavor (in homage and tribute, of
course). And who gets into a hobby to save money over buying a mass
produced product? If you work with wood, do you amortize your tools and
labor and materials to see if that table you made cost you less than the
store-bought item would have? Or is the pleasure of doing it yourself (and
telling others you did so) part of the payback?

Keep on brewing, brothers . . . .


- --
Paul Beard
AT&T Tridom, 840 Franklin Court, Marietta, GA 30067
404 514-3798 * FAX: 404 429-5419 * tridom!paul.beard/beardp at tridom.com



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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 07:47:36 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dana S. Cummings" <dcumming at moose.uvm.edu>
Subject: troublshoot RD, Copper mash tun

R. Dwell wrote asking about Oxygen penetrating his plastic brew bucket 
and causing problems.  

In my experience plastic brew bucket problems have 
been entirely bacterial in nature.  The plastic scratches very easily and 
these scratches harbor all sorts of nasties.  If it you can possibly fit 
it in to your cost outlay get yourself a 5-7 gallon glass carboy.  The 
5&6 gall. models can be had for about $15-20.  If you know a chemist, you 
may be able to get a 7 gall. reagent bottle.  Good luck.

Coyote is thinking about using an acid wash to clean his copper mash 
tun.  

In my understanding the funny stuff you're seeing is oxidized copper.  An 
acid wash would expose more copper each time you washed it.  Letting the 
copper oxide build up would prevent copper ions from going into your 
wort.  You may want to consult with the chem wizards debating pH before 
you take my word as gospel. 

As always happy brewing.  

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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 94 8:29:33 EST
From: Mark A Fryling <mfryling at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: pH correction

A thousand apologies!

Yesterday in an effort to clarify the meaning of pH, I am affraid that I 
screwed up.
I wrote:
          The definition of pH is
               pH = -log(Activity of H+) = [H+]*(gamma H+)

          This should read
               pH = -log(Activity of H+) = -log{[H+]*(gamma H+)}
                                           ^^^^

I think that everything else is OK.

Mark Fryling
<mfryling at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>

BTW, dont get too hung up on gamma (the activity coefficient), it is usually
nearly equal to 1 and is therefore often neglected.

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Date: 8 Feb 1994 09:27:06 U
From: "Ron Hart" <hart at axon.rutgers.edu>
Subject: Lactic acid in sparge water

Subject:                                                      Time:9:12 AM
Lactic acid in sparge water                                   Date:2/8/94
A posting from Ed Oriordan in #1345 asks about acidifying sparge
water with lactic acid.  I've been using very soft water for all-grain
brewing (I brew in a research lab and we use ultrafiltered [Milli-Q]
water).  In addition to adding back calcium, etc. to the mash,
it does seem to help to acidify for the sugar extraction.  Since
lactate is a normal metabolite of the yeast, I thought I'd use lactic 
acid.  The bottle I found was labeled "U.S.P." and is 87% (w/w).
All it takes is a few (4-10) DROPS to bring 5 gal soft water to 
pH 5.3-5.4.  Unfortunately, the list price is about $50 per pint according 
to Fisher Scientific, so it seem impractical for most homebrewers.

Ron Hart (hart at axon.rutgers.edu)
Rutgers University (Our campus originated in a Ballantine brewery!)
Newark NJ



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Date:         Tue, 08 Feb 94 09:07:11 EST
From: Derek Montgomery <DM1461A at american.edu>
Subject:      What's the definitive reference?

Greetings!

Having just moved to the Washington DC area I have recently become
familiar with several of the local microbrews and have definitely
wisened to the error of my ways vis-a-vis the consumption of
malt beverages after four years of college in western North Carolina.
(Suffice it to say that the primary consideration is no longer quantity
over quality).  Anyhow, now that I have more time on my hands and no
other hobby, I'm interested to do some reading on the topic of
homebrewing and was wondering if anyone could recommend an introductory
text.

>From reading the postings in the Digest I realize that this is "not just
a hobby" and certainly not something to be taken lightly :-).  I repent
for my past disrespects of beer and would appreciate a point in the
right direction.  Private e-mail would be great (and convenient).

Cheers,

Derek Montgomery  (dm1461a at american.edu)

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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 94 9:48:05 EST
From: Karl Horning <kh at ccfadm.eeg.ccf.org>
Subject: no champagne yeast in rootbeer

In response to Dave's question about using champagne yeast in 
rootbeer kits, I would advise against it.  Having made many batches
of that rootbeer as a kid, the only batch I remember which ever
evolved into handgrenades was the only batch I ever made with
champagne yeast.


Also, thanks to all who participated in the Laaglander DME
discussion.  Having only the option between Laaglander and
EMDE at my local supply store, I found the Laaglander to the more
fermentable of the two and assumed it to be very fermentable
on average.  Obviously, I should find a source for M+F DME.

Karl     kh at ccfadm.eeg.ccf.org


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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 94 09:06 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: HDM Maltings

Well, I have the sheet here in front of me.  The Belgian malts
distributed by L.D.Carlson are from HDM Maltings.  I do not know
if these malts are better, worse or equal to the DeWolf-Cosyns malts,
but I thought it might be important for all of you to know that there
are two different brands of Belgian malts available in the US.  Note
also, that what you would think should be trademarked names (Carapils,
Caravienne, Caramunich, Special B and Biscuit) are used by both
maltsters.  Also, as I have recently reaffirmed at the Chicago Beer
Society Malt Meeting, a dark crystal from three different maltsters can
taste radically different!  Even the Lovibond ratings are different
between the two maltsters.  My suggestions:

1. when you buy your malt, find out who the maltster is, or at least
   who the distributor is (cause now you know, which is which),

2. when you write down a recipe, specify the maltster, and

3. when someone gives you a recipe, ask who's malt did they use.

This may sound excessive, but if you were there to compare the different
malts, you would agree with me.  Most notably, the (English) Hugh-Baird
40L Crystal tasted distinctly of Apricots, the Hugh-Baird 90L Crystal
tasted like Plums and there was no mistaking Raisins in the DeWolf-Cosyns
Special B (221L).  These were amazingly different in flavor from the
Durst Helles Crystal, Durst Dunkel Crystal, DWC Carapils, Caravienne &
Caramunich, Maris Otter Crisp 80L Crystal and the Hugh-Baird Cara-Malt,
which varied from biscuity through various other fruits.  I was astonished!

Al.

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Date: Tue, 08 Feb 1994 11:15:43 -0400
From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH at ac.dal.ca>
Subject: Gluteraldehyde again...

Chris Lovelace seconds my opinions of gluteraldehyde in hbd1345.  Just one 
minor clarification, they fumes are not carcinogenic, just horribly 
corrosive.  This stuff typically comes in 25% solutions, which should 
always be used unfder the fume hood.
Incidentally, gluteraldehyde is 1,5,Pentanedione, which should set off 
little vdk bells...

____________   
Ed Hitchcock	ech at ac.dal.ca	| Oxymoron:  Draft beer in bottles. |
Anatomy & Neurobiology		| Pleonasm:  Draft beer on tap.     |
Dalhousie University, Halifax	|___________________________________|


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Date: Tue, 08 Feb 94 10:53:33 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: cream ale

          My father 30 years ago used to love a Cream Ale (can't 
          recall the brand), and I'd like to try brewing one. I think 
          I can come close on the ingredients, but I don't know about 
          the yeast. All Papazian says is that it uses both a lager 
          and an ale yeast. Anyone with experience making a Cream Ale 
          (like do you use the yeasts together? different times?)
          
          Are there any commercial cream ales available?
          Thanks

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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 94 09:00:00 -0700
From: Kelly Jones <k-jones at ee.utah.edu>
Subject: Re: Annoying low fills


In HBD #1345, JC Ferguson gripes about underfilled glasses; thought
I'd add my story...

There's a brewpub in Logan, Utah called Ebenezer's.  When I was there,
I ordered a pint of whatever.  What the waitress brought was a glass
which couldn't hold 13 oz on its best day, let alone 16 oz.  

I said, "Excuse me, but I ordered a pint".
She said, "That is our Pint".
Seeing people around me drinking beer out of pint glasses, I said, "If
this is a pint, then whats that _he's_ drinking?"
"Oh, that's our 'Super Guzzler' [or whatever] size!"
"But this isn't even close to 16 oz!" I protested.
"Well, we call it our 'Pint' size, but that doesn't mean its 16 oz",
said she, clearly exasperated at my ignorance.
Apparently, "Pint" is just a quaint name, like "Big Gulp" or "Super
Guzzler", and not a defined unit of volumetric measure.  Silly me.

Never went back.  Of course, it didn't help that the beer was terribly
flawed, the food sucked, and the service was terrible.

Isn't there a Bureau of Weights and Measures in most states/counties
that has the responsibility of assuring that gasoline pumps, grocer's
scales, etc are accurately calibrated?  Couldn't they be called in to
speak to certain Restaurant/Bar/Brewpub owners to assure that a
customer who orders a pint gets at least 16 fl. oz. of beer?

Kelly


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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 10:15:47 -0600 (CST)
From: Edward H Hinchcliffe-1 <hinch001 at maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Glutaraldehyde, flames, and not messing w/science

A gentle hello to the good people of brewland,

     This is a flame.I want to point it out at the beginning to make it
clear. there has been a fair amount of dithering over the subject of using
chemical fixatives/cross-linking agents to clean homebrew equitment. The
compond in question is glutaraldehyde (Glutaric dialdhyde). I am going to
recommend in the strongest possible terms that you the homebrewer stay
away from this agent. Far be it from me to want to restrict individual
choice, I'll leave that to the marketing people from G. Heilmanns (a case of
Dog Style is ok for those times when you have not BEEN for awhile), but
just because something is good at killing beer nasties does not make it
good to clean brewing stuff.

     Homebrewing is a complex form of cooking, enjoyed by people of
distinction and taste. You would not put highly toxic substances in a pot
of good Black Bean chili, so why even be tempted to put some in your pot
of Black Bean Stout (OG 1.240; TWO FORTY? No, too farty!).

     Leave the toxic stuff to the nerds; we will look after it for you. Use
bleach and water, and brew great beer.


     Well Mark,not much of a flame, but I just got on the network.
Glutaraldehyde, be smart, don't start. I liked the piece about pH, RGK
would be proud.

Teddy Hinchcliffe (No letters after my name yet, but I can lager in my
bedroom up here)
University of Minnesota 
Dept. of Cell Biology and Neuroanatomy
hinch001 at maroon.tc.umn.edu


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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 94 10:02:38 MST
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Re: extract usage/Austin brew news

> As I was looking over the instructions that came with the [root beer]
> extract:
> 
> Briefly  mix extract with 4.5 lbs of regular sugar and warm water pitch
> Bread yeast and bottle.
> 
> I have made this before a long time ago (before beer) and was wondering
> what stops these things from all blowing up?

As a regular maker of ginger ale (the soda pop kind), I'll offer my best
guesses as to why they don't explode:

1.  A typical soft drink recipe (water, sugar, extract) doesn't have
    enough nutrients to keep the yeast going for that long.  Most poop
    out after a short period of time; long enough to carbonate but not
    long enough to blow the bottles.

2.  Do yeast tend to go dormant in a high-pressure environment?  If so,
    the high CO2 pressure in soda pop may inhibit excessive yeast activity.

3.  Soda pops are often kept in the refrigerator.  The cold temps 
    definitely slow down the yeast.

Those are just conjectures, but I've made lots of ginger ale in the past
few years without any broken bottles.  I use any dry ale yeast (Edme or
M&F), and use 1 lb sugar to 1 gal of water.  Then I bottle in champagne
or 2l PET bottles and then refrigerate as a precaution.

On another subject, I was in Austin last week and picked up a few
tidbits.  I met Steve Anderson, owner of Waterloo brewing.  He's doing
well; in fact, he's selling so much beer he risks running out!  The
latest specialty batch, Guytown IPA, is superb -- aggressive hop
bitterness, but still well balanced.

I also took the tour of Celis brewery.  In an ironic twist, Celis will
soon be contract brewing their beers at a European brewery for sale in
Europe!  The fellow giving the tour did not say which brewery, but they
did have samples of the 25cl bottles it will be packaged in.  Pierre is
going head-to-head with Interbrew once again.

- --
Jeff Benjamin                               benji at hpfcla.fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co.                         Fort Collins, Colorado	
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
					    - T.S. Eliot

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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 09:12:17 -0800
From: bguerin at orincon.com (Bob Guerin)
Subject: Hop AAU Content

Just a general request to all of you who post recipes to the HBD (thanks!)
 - could you please list the AAU content of the hops used, if known.  I like
to use the IBU method described in Zymurgy a while back to determine
bittering units.  Due to differences in AAU content and underutilization
(since I don't boil a full 5 gallons), I need to adjust the quantity of
hops used.  TIA.




Bob Guerin
(bguerin at orincon.com)
Orincon Corporation



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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 94 09:27:02 PST
From: Jack St Clair <Jack_St_Clair at ccm.hf.intel.com>
Subject: Root Beer


Text item: Text_1

     OK, so technically it's not a beer but in a recent HBD thread I saw 
     where someone used a root beer extract to flavor a beer he was 
     making and wondered if anyone had a really good root beer recipe.  
     I think it would be fun to make and might make my wife a little 
     happier if she thought I was making something just for her.  And 
     while we're on the subject, how about sarsaparilla or cream soda?
     
     Please email directly to:
     
     Jack_st_clair at ccm.hf.intel.com
     
     BTW, to any and all in the Portland, Oregon area.  If you haven't 
     tried the Rhinoceros Stout at the Oakhills Brewpub you are really 
     missing a treat.  This stuff is thick, black, rich, tasty, and 
     yummy. Oakhills is on NW Cornell Avenue between NW Murray and NW 
     Cornell Avenue exits on the Sunset Hwy.  I'm trying to get the 
     recipe.  If i am successful, I'll post it.
     
     Jack St.Clair
     Portland, Oregon

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Date: 08 Feb 1994 12:32:12 GMT
From: "Michael L. Kovacs" <AMPCCN01.KOVACS01 at SSW.ALCOA.COM>
Subject: Need help priming with wort...

     I brewed a batch last weekend that I would like to try priming with wort
     instead of corn sugar. The ingredients for 5 gal. were as follows:

                 1 lb. Crystal Malt (steeped at 170F for 20 min.)
                 6 lb. Brewers Gold Malt Extract Syrup
                       Cascade hops (boil)
                       German Hallertau hops (finishing)
                       Wyeast Munich Lager liquid yeast

     My questions are:

     1.) Can anyone offer an opinion as to whether priming with wort
     (krausening?) makes a noticable difference to the taste of the beer.

     2.) How do you make the wort for priming. I recall seeing a figure
     citing a SG of 1.020, but I am not sure if this is correct (We moved
     recently and I
     haven't found my copy TNCJOHB yet). Is there any easy way to calculate
     how much water and extract syrup to use. (I'm hoping to be able to use the
     syrup for this, although I realize it would be easier to measure DME).

     I would appreciate any input in this matter. If you wish to e-mail me
     direct my address is kovacs01 at ssw.alcoa.com.

     -------------------------------------------------------------
     mike kovacs        kovacs01 at ssw.alcoa.com      pittsburgh, pa
     -------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: 08 Feb 94 12:38:38 EST
From: jennings at readmore.com (Todd Jennings)
Subject: Brewpub FAQ

With all the requests flying back and forth WRT travelers looking for 
out-of-town brewpub info, 
has somebody out there put together(or THOUGHT about putting together) a 
Brewpub FAQ.
It would seem a reasonable evolutionary arm of the HBD.  What's the story 
on this?  Posting
or private e-mail is fine.  TIA>>>>>>>>>>

Todd Jennings, NYC       tjenning at readmore.com

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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 94 12:46:49 EST
From: 73410%sdlsb.dnet%sdlcc at swlvx2.msd.ray.com (Carl Howes)
Subject: HSA

Al wrote about a sherrylike flavor/aroma as a result of HSA.  The major
effect which I noticed was in stability.  The quality/drinkability of the
batches where I used the Papazian method of dumping hot concentrated wort
into cold water yielded beers which changed for the worse in the space of a
few weeks after bottling.  I am still doing partial boils but cooling the
wort before mixing, and have beer which is good (and getting better) after
*months*.  As far as the effect of concentration on oxidation, I would
expect more problems with a partial boil since there is more to oxidize per
unit volume.  Just a thought.

Carl  73410 at sdlcc.msd.ray.com


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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 94 12:51:48 EST
From: msellman at vnet.IBM.COM
Subject: Motor for Malt Mill

I am planning on adding a motor to my j.s. Malt Mill.
I figure I will use some sort of belt & pulley design.
Any Suggestions on size of motor? RPM? Pulley diameters?
Source of inexpensive motors?

Any help would be appreciated.


Mike Sellman (MSELLMAN at VNET.IBM.COM)

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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 13:39:50 -0500
From: Kelvin Kapteyn <kelvink at mtu.edu>
Subject: Belgian malt comparison ?

Since someone (Al) finally brought up the topic, I want to post an
observation and a related question.  I reciently brewed a porter 
using HDM maltings Belgian Special B as part of the mash bill.
HDM is the Belgian malt carried by L.D. Carlson (unless I remembered
the initials wrong!)  I am really happy with this porter, but it
has an unexpected "spiceyness" to it that was definately contributed
by the special B malt.  I am wondering if anyone has noticed similar
things from the DeWolf-Cosyns special B?  I have some of that too,
but haven't brewed with it yet.  BTW, I didn't notice the flavor in
the malt I munched on at milling time.  Has anywone been able to compare
other DWC and HDM grains?  I would appreciate any other info such as
the "debitterized" description of the DWC chocolate malt.  

 -Kelvin         (kelvink at mtu.edu)

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Date: Tue, 08 Feb 1994 13:50:28 -0500 (EST)
From: VIALEGGIO at ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject: Abbey recipes?


               State University of New York at Stony Brook
                       Stony Brook, NY 11794-5475

                                            Victor Ialeggio
                                            Music
                                            516 632-7239
                                            08-Feb-1994 01:44pm EDT
FROM:  VIALEGGIO
TO:    Remote Addressee                     ( _homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com )

Subject: Abbey recipes?

Anyone care to share Abbey ale recipes (grain) via e-mail?
(I can't access files, FAQs etc on my cheapoid account).
Vielen Dank, tante grazie.   vialeggio at ccmail.sunysb.edu

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Date: Mon, 07 Feb 94 15:23:23 EST
From: "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst at zk3.dec.com>
Subject: carbonators

drose at husc.harvard.edu writes:

>Hello:
>        In this months Brewing Techniques in the new New Products
>section, there is a product described that looks very interesting to me.
>I can't remember the name of the device, but it is manufactured by a
>company called Liquid Bread out of Florida.  It is advertised as a device
>for making mini-kegs out of 2 and 3 liter soda bottles. 


They're called "carbonators".  I bought one of them (and ordered 2 more 
through a club bulk purchase). It's essentially a ball-lock "in" fitting
attached to a cap that fits onto a PET bottle.  You hook up your CO2 tank
and force carbonate.  This sounds like just the thing for parties and
club meetings.  It should enable you to make some cheap soda water too.  

I don't have much experience with it yet but it works
as advertised.  My only comment at this point is that the plastic cap 
seems a bit thin so I don't know how long they'll last.

Tony V.


- --Tony Verhulst

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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 94 12:37:07 GMT
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re : wider membership

Buried in my last jocular post was a more serious point, which is this: if you
are anything like me, then you save informative posts. Naturally, what anyone
considers 'informative' depends upon their interests and level of experience.
My information stash _does_ include quite a bit from recent HBDs (ie, post the
advent of JS). So why isn't it getting here? Because these people haven't been
invited to subscribe? Or because different questions get asked over there?


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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 14:15:07 -0500 (EST)
From: bickham at msc.cornell.edu
Subject: Mike Schrempp, Agar versus gelatin

Sorry to waste bandwidth, but my mail to Mike has been bouncing, so
if you're out there Mike, can you please send me e-mail with your
home address and I'll get the information to you that way.

Just to stay on the subject, I've been looking for a source of agar
to make some slants, but all I find at the Asian groceries is a
vanilla flavored agar.  Should I just use unflavored gelatin or is
it worth my time to keep on looking?

Thanks,
	Scott
- -- 
========================================================================
Scott Bickham
bickham at msc.cornell.edu
=========================================================================

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Date: Tue, 08 Feb 1994 14:29:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Bruce Wiggins <FAC_BWIGGINS at VAX1.ACS.JMU.EDU>
Subject: subscription

Please sign me up for the homebrew digest.  Thanks.

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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 11:43:54 -0800
From: pohl at unixg.ubc.ca (Derrick Pohl)
Subject: Beer on World Wide Web

OK, two teasers in HBD #1345 about some brewing stuff on the World Wide
Web.  I just started using Mosaic to cruise the web.  I think we need a URL
to find this "beer page", which we then enter in the "Open URL..." dialog
box.  Can someone please provide it?  Muchos thanx.


- -----
Derrick Pohl <pohl at unixg.ubc.ca>, Faculty of Graduate Studies
University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C.



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Date: Tue,  8 Feb 94 15:24:55 -0500
From: Pete Geib <plg at ll.mit.edu>
Subject: Wort Chiller Use

Hi all,

Well, I finally went out and put together a wort chiller.  No problems
there.  (BTW it's 50' 1/4" OD, and works great).  My problem came last
night.  I had about three gallons of wort boiling away with a couple of 
ounces of hop pellets.  Ten minutes before the end of the boil, I set my
chiller in the five gallon SS pot.  Five minutes later, I drop in
another couple ounces of hop pellets.  At the end of the boil, I turn 
off the fire and start the cold water flowing.

Now, if I understand correctly, the cold break falls to the bottom, of
the pot.  The hop "mush" (there must be a more technical term for this,
right?) is all over the sides and chiller and generally floating about.
After about 20 minutes, I lift the chiller out, set it aside and start
siphoning the wort into the primary bucket - careful, of coarse, not to
suck up any cold break.  

My first problem is what is this cold break, what does it look like, and 
how much wort do I leave in the pot to avoid it?  Problem two: How do I
siphon with all of that hop "mush" floating around?

Finally, should I worry about the chiller eventually oxidizing, and
putting off flavors into the beer?

Thanks for the help.  
- --
Peter L Geib  at  MIT Lincoln Lab
plg at ll.mit.edu

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Date:    Tue, 8 Feb 1994 15:56:36 -0500 (EST)
From: S_TUTTLE at UNHH.UNH.EDU
Subject: WHERE IS BRITISH BEER FEST???

I know when it is but I don't know where it is.

Where is the August 2-6 British Beerfest????  If you know, please reply
ASAP.\

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Date:    Tue, 8 Feb 1994 15:54:30 -0500 (EST)
From: S_TUTTLE at UNHH.UNH.EDU
Subject: Help! Going to Florida

I am going to Florida (Tampa Airport) driving to Miami.  I need to
know where the good beer bars are along the way. Give us your
BREWPUBS!!!! Please reply by Feb 14.

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Date: Tue, 08 Feb 94 12:59:04 PST
From: Simon Evans <evanss at smtpgate.ZGI.COM>
Subject: No Subject Given

SUB BEER-L Simon Evans


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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 94 16:10:28 EST
From: Mark A Fryling <mfryling at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Brew in Chicago

Hi again,

I probably should have included this in my earlier post but I wasn't thinking 
about it.  Anyway, I will be in Chicago for a conference early next month and I
would like to get info about:
          1)  Good brewpubs in the area.  I have heard about Goose Island;
              is it any good and where is it?  Are there others?

          2)  Good exotic brew retail establishments in the area.  I am
              especially interested in West-coast brews and also hard to find
              Belgians.

Please e-mail directly.
Thanks so much.

Mark Fryling
<mfryling at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>

Oh, BTW we are staying at the Best Western Grant Park if you can target 
suggestions for this general area it would be appreciated.  I will however 
drive a long way for good brew if necessary B*}.

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1346, 02/09/94