FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Contamination (Gary Cote)
  where to get Cajun; has anyone tried Coleman? (tims)
  Dryhop Catastrophy (Doug Lukasik)
  all-grain to extract equation (dong298599)
  Re: Annoying low fills ("Mark MANVILLE")
  Pint Glasses/Kegging (SCHMIDT_K)
  Toxic, But Clean! ("Dan Z. Johnson")
  MaltMill motor ("Dan Z. Johnson")
  Smokin'Brews ("Dan Z. Johnson")
  Strong beers at the Brick (dan_fox)
  Commercial Cream Ales (Aaron Morris)
  Re: wort chiller use (Pete Geib)
  Laaglander DME Starters ("Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616")
  HOPTECH ("Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616")
  Acidifying soft sparge water (Glen Tinseth)
  Hop Source address (Eric Wade)
  Filtering while racking... (Kurt Eaton)
  Women only competions/Laaglander (COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L)
  CP Fillers (Glenn Raudins)
  re: flame to all (Tom Lyons)
  Priming with Canned Wort ?? (Kevin "Puck Head" Hardee)
  Robertson Book (Dan Ferstenou)
  The sex gap in homebrewing? (Greg Kushmerek)
  Competition announcement (Jason Goldman)
  wheat beers (708) 938-3184" <HANSEN.MICHAEL at igate.abbott.com>
  re:discounts at Fullerton (Jim Doyle)
  Geeesh! (AMBLAD)
  Spaten Recipe (Mark Worwetz)
  EKU28SCALDISSANTICLAUSPECHEUR 3619 ?'s (Rich Rosenthal)
  Fuggles, Saaz (Eugene Zimmerman)
  Queen of Beer / Cream Stout (Earle M. Williams)
  lined oak/saaz/decoction mashing (korz)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 13:50:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Gary Cote <gary at mv.MV.COM>
Subject: Contamination

               

I have a couple of questions.....

About 6 batches ago I had a mild infection problem which I traced to a 
infected racking tube. I would like to know what type of infection this 
is as some customers at the homebrew shop where I work part time have 
had the same problem. The primary fermention went as planed and then I 
racked it to a secondary, After about 4 days it looked like somebody 
opened up my carboy and sprayed a light coat of white spray paint on 
top. I took a chance and kegged this to a 5 gal. keg. This still tasted 
good with a slight after taste. I had the same problem on the next 2 
batches but these I bottled. After about 3 weeks in the bottle little 
white specks began to form inside the bottles just at the liquid line.
These also tasted ok with a slight after taste.

Any ideas on what has formed in there???

Problem #2.....

The last 2 batches have been high gravity brews, # 1 was a dopplebock 
that started at a whopping 1.150, I know too high for a dopple but, oh well.
Fermenting started out fine and went about 6 days real strong than stopped.
I took a reading and was still at 1.050 . I then made a started of champagne
yeast but no go.
I did another batch and split it in 2. I the dopple onto this brew and it 
fermented out to 1.025 so no loss there.

My second batch is a barley wine that started out at 1.110. I used a 
liquid british yeast (1098) this also stopped at 1.050 but with this one 
I put 2 champagne yeasts in  with the start. After a week at 1.050 I made 
another champagne starter  of about 8 cups. I put this in the carboy and 
after 6 days there was no movement in readings.
What can I be doing wrong?????
For batch # 1 I used a (1007) yeast.
Both of these were extract batches.
All of my grain batches have come out great so I don`t know what  is 
going on.


Any help with this would be great.

Gary Cote

- -- 





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Date: Wed, 09 Feb 94 10:20:13 -0800
From: tims at ssl.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: where to get Cajun; has anyone tried Coleman?

Hi Brewers,
	Well, my next generation brewing system is nearly
ready to go, but I haven't bought the burner for 
my 15.5 gallon keg-kettle.  Has anyone ever tried using
a Coleman two-burner campstove?  I have one of these and
thought I might try it before spending the bucks on the
Cajun cooker.  
	Also, is there a cheap mail order source for the
cajun cooker?

thanks,

Tim Sasseen
tims at ssl.berkeley.edu


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Date: Wed, 09 Feb 1994 15:18:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Doug Lukasik <LUKASIK_D at sunybroome.edu>
Subject: Dryhop Catastrophy

About a week and a half ago I made up a Liberty clone and put it in the 
primary fermenter.  After six days it was ready to rack to the secondary and 
when I did this I added 1 1/2 oz of Cascade plugs in a hop bag for dry 
hopping.  Having been informed earlier that they would float (I had only 
dry hopped using pellets in the past) I put a handfull of boiled marbles in the 
bag to weigh it down.  Low and behold 2 hours later it was in the neck of the 
carboy, blocking the CO2 from escaping and bubbling beer out of the airlock.

Welllll, I added a handful of nuts (boiled of course) to the bag and of course
it sank again.  2 hours latter same problem.  This time I added 3 large lag 
bolts (boiled of course) and it sank again.  2 hours later same old story...
[at this point you can stop laughing - I am thinking of naming the brew "Nuts
and Bolts Ale"].  Having decided that there was enough "hardware" in the brew
at this point it became obvious that the only solution was to keep opening the 
airlock, sticking a large bread knife (cutting) in and squishing the CO2 out 
of the hops bag.  After 3 days of this my wife was ready to kill me (she of 
course was required to do this while I was at work).  In the interest of 
brewing harmony I opened it up last night and very painstakingly removed a 
large amount of the hops with a large pair of hemostats.  The remianing hops
is now staying at the bottom of the carboy.

I am praying that I did not contaminate/oxygenate the beer as it tasted great
at racking time.  Any suggestions as to how to keep this much hops down in the
beer if I try it again?  I am expecting the arrival of 48 oz of whole hops 
later this week and would really like to use some of them for dry hopping.  The 
knife, by the way, was run under very hot water each time it was used in an 
attempt to sanitize it.   Anyone know how much weight per oz is needed to 
keep whole hops from reaching the surface?  Would I be better off ust dumping
the hops in the carboy without the hops bag?

TIA,

Doug.  <lukasik_d at sunybroome.edu> 

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Date: Wed, 09 Feb 94 15:48:41 EST
From: dong298599 at aol.com
Subject: all-grain to extract equation

Does anyone have a method of converting the ingredients in an all-grain
recipe to the equivalent using extracts?  (i.e. 6# 2-Row Klages equals 3.5
lbs. extract syrup)  I am aware that malt syrups will vary and there is an
abundance of brands available.  

I have progressed to the phase of dry and/or syrup extract with specialty
grains, but seriously doubt I'll make the transition to all-grain because,
well, the beer's just fine with my simpler methods. I would like to try to
convert some of those award winning all-grain recipes to simpler extract
brewing, though.

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Date: Wed, 09 Feb 94 15:05:40 CST
From: "Mark MANVILLE" <Mark.Manville at ccmail.adp.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: Annoying low fills


Kelly Jones <k-jones at ee.utah.edu> writes in Wednesday's HBD:

There's a brewpub in Logan, Utah called Ebenezer's.  When I was there,
I ordered a pint of whatever.  What the waitress brought was a glass
which couldn't hold 13 oz on its best day, let alone 16 oz.  

I said, "Excuse me, but I ordered a pint".
She said, "That is our Pint".
Seeing people around me drinking beer out of pint glasses, I said, "If
this is a pint, then whats that _he's_ drinking?"
"Oh, that's our 'Super Guzzler' [or whatever] size!"
"But this isn't even close to 16 oz!" I protested.
"Well, we call it our 'Pint' size, but that doesn't mean its 16 oz",
said she, clearly exasperated at my ignorance.
Apparently, "Pint" is just a quaint name, like "Big Gulp" or "Super
Guzzler", and not a defined unit of volumetric measure.  Silly me.

- -----------------------

I lived briefly in the UK in the late eighties, and while I was there a major
piece of legislation was passed to standardized the size of a pint glass of
beer.  I assume you must have been there before '87 or so.  Pubs even had to
junk their old glasses and get ones that conformed to the standards.  The
legislation also included regulations on how far the beer could be from the lip
of these glasses and still be legally called a pint (I hope I have all of this
right -- can any UKers correct me?)

The British take their beer seriously, you see.

By the way, the Imperial pint is actually 19.6 fluid ounces (the American pint
is 16), so you were even further from a "real" pint than you thought.  If anyone
brews according to a foreign recipe (on Edme kits, whatever) they should keep
this in mind.  Among other things, this means 5 Imperial gallons is really 6
U.S. gallons ...

Oh, by the way, let's not point out the sliver in our transatlantic friends'
eyes while missing the beam in our own (or however that parable goes).  Can you
tell me that you've never been uncertain of what you'd get when you order a
pitcher (or even a glass) here in the US?

Mark


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Date: Wed, 9 Feb 1994 21:32:15 -0600 (CST)
From: SCHMIDT_K at bj.palmer.edu
Subject: Pint Glasses/Kegging

Greetings and salutations.

JC Ferguson writes:

>the you are not getting 16 oz of beer.  Ever pour a 12oz bottle of beer in
>one of those straight-sided 16oz glasses?  It damn near fills it, maybe 1/2"
>below the top of the glass.  That is how lots and lots of pints are sold here
>in this area.  They charge you a price for 16oz and you are getting 12-13oz
>of beer!!  That last 1/2 inch of the glass is about 4 oz of beer!  

I love to drink my beer from "pint" glasses, even at home.  I was overjoyed to
find some nice ones several years back.  But I did notice that a 12 oz. bottle
filled them up.  Mr Ferguson's note intrigued me, so I just measured water into 
my glass.  It holds 16oz.  But drinking it is going to be tricky.  There is a
discernable "dome" of liquid at the top of the glass, and I doubt it could be
picked up without spilling.  He shouldn't feel bad, we get the same thing here
in I.O.W.A (Idiots Out Wandering Around).  Apparently, I have never seen a real
16 oz glass of beer.  Are the glasses bigger in England, or do they fill them
to the brim?

Also, Mark Bunster writes:

>The reconditioning keggin_info was helpful. My partner is thinking of
>shelling out $200 for a complete kit. Fair/great/awful price?

My partner and I just shelled out $150 for a kegging system which included a
"used" 5 gal keg, new hoses, new fittings, new regulator, and a 4 lb CO2 tank. 
Our local brew supplier (whom we did *not* buy this from) said that was a good
price.  Now we are also looking for  spare kegs.  I understand that bottling
organizations destroy their used kegs before discarding?  Our wonderful
liability system in action again?

The HBD is great.  Most of you people are *way* into this.  The chemistry is
too much for me.  My big problem?  Finding the time to read it!!  Keep up the
good work!


				Kurt Schmidt
				Davenport, IA

"You traded the Blues-mobile for a microphone?!  I can see that."


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Date: 10 Feb 94 10:16:57 EST
From: "Dan Z. Johnson" <75430.3532 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Toxic, But Clean!

Edward H Hinchcliffe-1 <hinch001 at maroon.tc.umn.edu> writes:
>>Leave the toxic stuff to the nerds; we will look after it for you.

How very good of you. Keep the lid screwed tight. The only infections I (or
anyone else i know) have had in brewing is after dropping a racking tube in the
toilet and screaming "Damn The Torpedos, I'm Bottling Anyway!". It isn't easy to
infect beer. You have to work at it. A bleach solution should do ya' if you keep
you equipment clean. Hot water will clean off most brew-related messes when they
are fresh. And chlorine is bad enough for the old environment as is. Throw away
the tyvek jumpsuits and have a homebrew.
 -Z


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Date: 10 Feb 94 10:16:51 EST
From: "Dan Z. Johnson" <75430.3532 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: MaltMill motor

msellman at vnet.IBM.COM asks about motorizing the maltMill from Jack Schmidling.
Jack won't sell the mill motorized (for liability reasons, i think), but it can
be motorized. It just takes a bit of work to do it right. I talked to him about
it before i motorized my mill last fall: 
First, don't drive it directly. If something gets caught in it (like you
fingers) you are in deep doo-doo. Driving the mill by belts is much safer. They
slip when overloaded, if not over tensioned. And it looks cool. Like Oliver
Twist and Rube Goldberg are working in your brewery
Second (or "B"), don't try to run it much faster than hand-crank speed. Others
may disagree on this, but I found that the higher the speed, the poorer the
grind. Lots of flour and torn husks.
Third, devise a way to clamp the motor, mill and receiving bucket together. I
built a cabinet that the whole thing fits in, all the parts locked down tight.
It can be used inside without alot of dust all over the place. An old kitchen
cabinet can be reworked for this.
That said, I used a 1725 rpm motor from a very old clothes dryer. With a 2"
pulley on the motor I ran a belt to a mandrel with a 5" pulley and another 2"
pulley mounted on the same shaft. A mandrel is a shaft set in two bearings where
you can mount a polishing wheel or multiple pulley wheels for speed control.
Another belt ran from the 2" to a 6" pulley mounted on the MaltMill.
Effective speed is about 125 rpm. The trick is: small pulley to big to reduce
speed.
Try to mount the motor and mandrell with wing nuts or some other way to slide
them back and forth a bit to tighten and loosed belt tension. Put an on-off
switch right at the MaltMill for safety. Leave the safety screen jack puts in
the hopper. It doesnt speed things up to remove it.
It sounds a bit involved but it is VERY worth it, especially if you are an
all-grain brewer. I used to hate doing this with a Corona.
 -Z



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Date: 10 Feb 94 10:17:01 EST
From: "Dan Z. Johnson" <75430.3532 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Smokin'Brews

SCOTT  LLDSC at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu writes
>>It's as if everyone immediately assumes that all stoners care about
is getting the rest of the world high. (well...)

It's a paranoid thing. You wouldn't understand.
 -Z


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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 94 10:58:27 EST
From: dan_fox at ccmail.GSFC.NASA.GOV
Subject: Strong beers at the Brick


     Hello all!
     
     Last night (2/9) I attended the annual Strong Beer Tasting at the 
     Brickskellar in Washington DC. For those who don't know, the Brick is 
     one of the foremost beer bars in the world, or at least the East 
     Coast. >500 brands - one goes there to worship. They have a monthly 
     series of tastings; January is Strong Beer.
     
     On another list, I am in the habit of posting short, informal reviews 
     of concerts I attend, and thought y'all might appreciate some of the 
     same treatment here. I did write up a page or so to send to my private 
     list of beer buddies.
     
     Since this is the _Homebrew Digest_ and not the _Beer Enjoyer's 
     Digest_ I thought I'd do it off line. If you want a copy, email me and 
     I'll return one to you. I would also appreciate quick messages along 
     the lines of "Post it, you fool!" or "Thanks for not wasting my 
     bandwidth."
     
     If I get a lot of "Post-It Notes" (sorry) I will do so. If there are 
     more requests than I care to deal with I will also post it.
     
     Dan Fox dan_fox at ccmail.gsfc.nasa.gov

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Date:         Thu, 10 Feb 94 12:17:22 EST
From: Aaron Morris <SYSAM at ALBANY.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject:      Commercial Cream Ales

A big favorite in this area is Genny Cream Ale, which was also rated
highly in the last Great American Brew Fest (or was it two festivals
ago?).  It's brewed by the Gennesee Brewing Company, Gennesee, N.Y.

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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 94 15:11:52 -0500
From: Pete Geib <plg at ll.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: wort chiller use


I posted a question about wort chiller use a few HBDs ago.  I received
several email responses and decided to forward them on (since this is
what I like to see others do).  I also talked to a friend in Seattle who
works at a microbrewery.  What I plan to do based on all of this is:
  1. Continue to place the chiller in the wort 10 minutes before the end
     of the boil.
  2. Turn on the cold water and turn off the fire and wait till it cools
     to below 65 or 70.
  3. Remove the chiller and whirlpool the wort to create a cone of
     sediment.
  4. Siphon the wort with a screen of some kind around the wand.  If it
     clogs, I'll have my strainer ready and just pour the wort into the
     primary.  HSA is not a concern since the wort is not hot.

Thanks to all who replied.  I've posted a few of the replies.  For those
who were worried about how to make a chiller and what it's for, all I
can say is that if your delaying your first batch because of this,
DON'T.  It's not THAT big of a deal.  It just makes the process a little
more convenient since you can cool the wort faster, and slightly reduce
the chance of some bad guys getting in there.  It may make better beer,
but I think making a batch now is better than making a better batch next
month:)

Replies from:
   rick at adc.com (Rick Larson)
   btalk at aol.com
   Robert Jordan <JORDAN at ANLBEM.BIM.ANL.GOV>
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
   
just siphon until you think you are sucking solids from the bottom.
I typically lose 1/2 to 3/4 of a gallon (not all of this is liquid).
But since i do full boils that typically yeild 5.5 gallons its not
a big deal.  my finishing hops always seem to sink.  I usually agiate
the kettle slightly (swirl actually) while the chiller is in there
to improve cooling.  this may be what sinks the hops.

Either way it's ok to suck up a little cold break.  Good yeast food
I think.  Besides cold break will continue to precipitate out during
the first 6 hours of primary.

you either leave it all behind racking to secondary or leave it
behind racking to your bottling bucket.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------

to filter out the spent hops and break, wrap a copper (or SS)
ChoreBoy around the end of your racking tube.  This will
prevent most of the "mush" from getting into your fermentor.

good luck,

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pete-
I've used immersion style chiller for almost 2 years. Here's what works best
for me:  Sanitize as you do. Cover pot at flame off. Occasionally stir wort
w/o lifting lid to increase heat transfer. once chilled(mine ends up ~70f
depending on my patience) I remove chiller and whirlpool w/spoon for a minute
or so, cover and let sit for 10-15 min. Siphon carefully.
This usually leaves a mound of sediment in the center of the pot bottom, but
there is still some crap lingering in the last inch or two of wort.
I probably don't chill low enough to get a good cold break. It usually
happens in my carboy primary. Large 'clots' form when I add cold water. ( i
do partial boils) This stuff starts settling out right away. 
I don't wort chill too low because I don't want to pitch yeast into too cold
of an environment. My own paranoia perhaps ;)
My $.02 wort , hope it helps. Play around to see what you like.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have used an immersion wort chiller and like you haven't really experienced 
seeing the cold break settle out and fall to the bottom of the pot.  I do just
like you said.  I put the wort chiller the last 10 min. or so of the boil to
sterilize it and the turn off the heat, add my finishing hops and turn on the
water to the chiller.  I then pour the chilled wort into my fermentor through
a strainer into enough previously boiled and chilled water to make five 
gallons.  The strainer filters out most of the hops and I assume at least
some of the cold break material.  I then pitch the yeast and let that ferment
for a couple of days, or until the fermentation has died down and has gone 
about "half way".  So then I siphon the beer into a secondary fermentor (a
5 gallon carboy) and leave behind the yeasty foam head and whatever trub (hops,
dead yeast, cold and hot break material) that has now had a chance to settle
out.  I then let it ferment out in the carboy, and so far all I've had on the
bottom of that is a nice layer of yeast.

Just my $0.02,

Oh yeah, someone left a post a few month back about cleaning copper chillers.
They submerge the chiller in water, heat it up and add vinegar to the water.
They weren't specific as to how much vinegar, prabably a cup or two.  The
hot vinegar will then clean the chiller to a nice new shiny finish.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for band width.  Hope this helps others. 
BTW, This is a great forum for learning.
- --
Peter L Geib  at  MIT Lincoln Lab
plg at ll.mit.edu

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Date:     Thu, 10 Feb 94 15:32:45 EST
From: "Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616" <wagnecz at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  Laaglander DME Starters

Mark S. Woods <woodsman at genesis.mcs.com> writes:
Subject: Using Laaglander in starters

>Now I've experienced the same problem using Wyeast Bavarian Wheat yeast.
>Any comments on my whole miserable experience? 

	A data point: I made a starter w/ 1 pound of Laaglander light
DME in a gallon of water, which I boiled down to 3/4 gallon and cooled
to about 75 F.  I pitched a pack of Wyeast 3056 (Bavarian Wheat) that
I had started the day before (~20 hrs. old and puffed quite fat!) to
this mix and capped with a lock.  This was about 09:00 am.  By 
16:00 I had a krausen of about 1 1/2 inches in the one gallon 
container.  I pitched this starter to 15 gallons of a 66/33
wheat/pale 6-row wort at 22:00 the next evening.  By the next morning,
All three of my five gallon fermenters were purring along with 2 of
the 3 having some blowoff already (only 7 hours later!)  In short,
a better than average starter.  In summation, no problems with the
Laaglander DME.

	I believe that if you get a good quick start from the liquid
pack (as evidenced by being "puffed out" within a day), you'll
do OK with your starter).  Make a generous starter, a least one
quart per 5 gallons of batch.  It doesn't pay to skimp on starter
volume, besides it only costs a little more, is about the same
amount of work, and can help prevent infections! 

	The only problem I really had was breaking the damned inner
bubble in the lq. pack - I finally put it on the floor and carefully
stepped on it!

			Glen

P.S. George Tempel, I know you're out there.  I haven't forgot your
email message to me Re: good wheat recipes, I just need a little
more time to proof this one.  I post it in a couple of weeks after
I've got it bottled/aged/rigorously tested by the "BOARD" (Board of
Accomplished Research Drinkers, my "test pilots").

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Date:     Thu, 10 Feb 94 15:45:32 EST
From: "Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616" <wagnecz at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  HOPTECH

Just some good comments regarding my recent purchase of fresh hops
from Mark Garetz.  I picked an assortment of 93 whole hops from
hoptech and was quite pleased with my order.  Up until now, I've
been using that pelletized crap from last year.  What a difference
right from the start when you crack open an oxygen barrier bag of
fresh whole hops (read: intense aroma).  I can't wait to taste this
latest batch, I'm sure the difference will be just as great!

	Mark appears to fairly customer orientated, as he personally
called after the order arrived to tell me that the tettnanger should
 have been labeled as 5.5% and not 11%.AA.  Contrast that with BreTek, 
who couldn't send me the right yeast after two tries and several phone
calls...

	The only problem I have is storing these hops, I could only
cram about 2 oz's in a coffee cup sized jar...



			Glen
  

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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 13:57:56 -0800
From: glent at falstaff.cache.tek.com (Glen Tinseth)
Subject: Acidifying soft sparge water


In HBDs 1345 and 1346, Ed O'(edo at marcam.com) and Ron Hart
(hart at axon.rutgers.edu) discussed how much conc. lactic acid
to add to *very* soft sparge water. This is a common thread
over the years on the HBD and according to my information the
correct answer is *NONE*. That's right, don't add any acid to
very soft (ie low concentrations of everything) brewing H2O.

The buffer system found naturally in malted barley is more 
than adequate to achieve the proper pH during the mash and 
sparge when using very soft water. The *only* time sparge
or mash water should be acidified is if the malt is not able
to establish the right pH range during the mash/sparge. This
usually occurs when your brewing water is hard and alkaline.

I have soft well water and have never had my pH above 5.7 at
any time during the mash or sparge. I typically add small amts
of CaSO4 (50-75 ppm) or nothing at all to my brewing water. 

The important thing to pay attention to is *not* the pH of your
water, it is the interaction of the pH and the ionic content
of the water that is the key. 

As I said at the beginning, this is all based on my background
in brewing and chemistry and is not written in stone. Feel free
to let fly and straighten me out if you think I screwed up.

Cheers,

Glenn

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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 16:57:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric Wade <ericwade at CLASS.ORG>
Subject: Hop Source address

Does anyone have an address or phone number for the Hop Source?  Or Glenn
Tinseth's e-mail address.

Eric



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Date:         Thu, 10 Feb 94 21:22:08 CST
From: Kurt Eaton <ZU02357 at UABDPO.DPO.UAB.EDU>
Subject:      Filtering while racking...

Hey,
    I've just started my first batch of homebrew last weekend, and I wanted to
ask a question before I screw something up.  I'm using a hopped beginner's kit,
 American Lager, and have had very active fermentation in my carboy since begin
ning (4 days).  However, I've noticed a fair amount of sediment flowing around
which is, I'm sure, yeast, but may also contain some residue from my aroma hops
 and Irish Moss since I (ghasp!) didn't filter or screen when transfering from
the boiling pot into my carboy.
   I'm wondering if any subsequent oxidation that could be caused if I filtered
 while racking into another carboy for secondary fermentation would negatively
affect the brew in any way.  I've read not to splash it around while racking, s
o I'm sort of hesitant to filter it unless someone knows that it won't hurt any
thing.  I'd hate to end up with a beer with "texture" <g>.  Thanks...
                                                                     Kurt

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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 1994 22:02:51 -0500 (EST)
From: COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L at Lilly.com
Subject: Women only competions/Laaglander

I have also been pondering the thought of "Women only Competitions"..
I don't know whether to be glad that we are recognized as people who
brew beer or to be honked off because we get "separate but equal" status.
Since one of our fine posters blasted me for being a "shrill feminazi bitch" 
last year for my views, I hesitate to wonder any further......
I just want to bring forth a challenge. Guys, get your wives, girlfriends, SO's,
to help you brew (IF they *like* beer). Two heads are better than one for 
creativity. Women, if you are out there.... continue to brew. In olden days, 
the wife was the brewer. There is a precendent for women brewers! I have 
noticed time and time again in Zymurgy the husband and wife winning teams.
I have had the acquaintance of many fine brewers who are men, but I look 
forward to the day when HBD is an equal mix. Not because the guys don't have 
equally great ideas, but because the women are starting to learn about brewing
and the Internet.  Off my soap box on that one. 
********
To the issue of Laaglander DME. I have seen numerous posts blasting it because
of the high final gravity. I for one, (and maybe the only one!), have been
excited by this information! I have recently started all-grain brewing, but
with my schedule don't always have the time to plan for it. Going up to my
favorite homebrew shop to grind grain isn't always convenient. The flip side
is that extract brews are often thin, lacking in body. It only seems reasonable 
that the use of Laaglander DME with its unfermentables would help extract 
brewers end up with a final product with more body (ie. "mouthfeel"). My future
plans include using Laaglander along with a more fermentable brand of DME
(Breiss, M&F, or your favorite canned extract) to achieve a beer with "body".
*******

Good luck and good beer!!!!
Sandy C.  

From: COCKERHAM SANDRA L            (MCVAX0::RX31852)

To:   VMS MAIL ADDRESSEE            (IN::"homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com")

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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 94 11:15:47 -0800
From: raudins at elan2.coryphaeus.com (Glenn Raudins)
Subject: CP Fillers


I would like to know people's opinions of various COMMERCIALLY available
Counter Pressure Bottle fillers.  I believe Dr. Fix has in the past
recommended Defalco's.  Are they still around and selling this?  I am not
looking for alternatives to buying one, to save bandwidth.  I am simply
looking for opinions on CP fillers from people who have used them and which
ones they prefer.  (This may be a good addition to the kegging FAQ when one
appears.)  I will gladly post a summary of responses if people wish to send
their opinions via e-mail

Glenn Raudins (raudins at Elan2.coryphaeus.com)  No wasteful sig.


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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 05:56:19 -0800 (PST)
From: tlyons at netcom.com (Tom Lyons)
Subject: re: flame to all

"Phillip Seitz" <p00644 at psilink.com> writes:

>I can say that there is a point at which free and open 
>discussion degenerates into useless noise.  We've just about hit that 
>level if you ask me.


Really?  Well, I can understand your being pissed off that your friend
was insulted by a piece of email he received, I guess, but I think your
message flaming all of us because of it was as close to "useless noise"
as anything I've seen on the digest.

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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 94 08:15:50 CST
From: khardee at rdxsun33.aud.alcatel.com (Kevin "Puck Head" Hardee)
Subject: Priming with Canned Wort ??

Ok, here's the situation. Last weekend, I brewed up a batch of Bitter,
and it is currently happily glugging away.  The batch was brewed to 8
gallons in order to be able to lose 1 gallon with the trub, ferment
5 gallons, and save 2 gallons in quart and half quart canning jars.
What I would like to do is to use part of the canned wort to prime
the batch instead of using Dextrose or DME.  I have read Noonan's book
on krausening, however, I would like to prime without first adding
yeast to the wort.  Given that the correct primeing amount of DME
is 1 1/4 cups of DME, and given the fact that 1/4 cup of DME to
1 pint of water used for starters normally produces a 1.020 wort, 
and given that the canned wort is 1.040, I have made the following
calculations:

	1/4 cup DME per pint = 1.020
	1/2 cup DME per pint = 1.040
	1 cup DME per quart = 1.040
	
Thus to get the equivilant of 1 1/4 DME for priming, I	would need to
add 1 1/4 quarts of 1.040 wort for priming.  Does this seem right??

Given Noonan's table on krausening, I would need 2 1/2 quarts of 1.040 
(10 Balling) krausen beer to prime 5 gallons to 2.5 ATM.  My assumption
is that by adding yeast to the wort and allowing it to reach high krausen,
it becomes neccessary to double what would be used for unfermented wort due
to the fermentation achieved to get to high krausen.  Does this sound correct??

I am still about a week from priming, so I would like to get this resolved
before I under or over carbonate the batch.  Any help would be greatly
appreciated!

Kevin
- --
Kevin M. Hardee                      UUCP:     ...uunet!fozzy!khardee
Alcatel Network Systems, Inc.        Internet: khardee at aud.alcatel.com
Richardson, TX			     PHONE:  (214) 996-6112

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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 94 8:18:07 CST
From: Dan Ferstenou <dan at admin.stkate.edu>
Subject: Robertson Book

In the early 1980's I got a book called 'The Connoisseur's Guide to Beer'
by John Robertson.  I really liked this book.  It was very informative and
Robertson's tastes seemed to be close to my own.  Unfortunately this book
has gotten out of date as a large number of the breweries in the book have
had major changes during the past decade.

Has anyone seen an updated version of this book or whether Robertson
continued writing beer books?  I have been having a difficult time finding
any decent beer books in the Twin Cities.  Despite the excitement in
microbrewing, there seems to be less books available than there were in
the past.  
- --
FROM:  Daniel Ferstenou                                 dan at admin.stkate.edu
       College of St. Catherine                                 612-690-6404
       St. Paul, MN

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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 09:39:22 -0500
From: gwk at world.std.com (Greg Kushmerek)
Subject: The sex gap in homebrewing?


Whatever reasons people use to justify having a women-only beer
competition, gender balance is a poor one.  I've judged beers before,
and I've entered (never won anything).  I seemed to have missed the
line that said "SEX (M/F)_____"  on the entry forms.

Moreover, I never was able to tell the difference between beer brewed
by women and beer brewed by men.  Furthermore, I've never been to a
homebrew club meeting or a supply store that charged more to women or
restricted women from access to the same resources available to men.

In other words, I can't see a damned thing in policy or practice that
discourages women from joining in the activities/deals/clubs open to
men.  Therefore, when an event becomes closed to a group of people
based on their sex I see this as sexist in its own right.  This would
not be sexist if it existed to right injustice, but there are no
injustices already present in the homebrewing world.

Perhaps a better reason for having this event is to boost female
brewers' egos.  If a number of women enter competitions now and don't
do well, then cutting off a significant percentage of the brewing
population gives them less competition.  Winning something becomes
more likely.  If this kind of artificial victory helps some woman 
feel more confident in entering another competition (open 
to all), then what's the harm done?  Maybe I should come up with some
set of standards that makes me more likely to win through a restricted
competition?

Let's call a spade a spade.  There are no wrongs to right on the
field of brewing/competition access for women.  This is an event that
sets up an uneven playing field; any respect earned from a victory in
this event cannot translate over to a wider audience.  True victory
comes from competing with your peers, many of whom are men in this
hobby (by fact not design).

- --gk

Greg Kushmerek
gwk at world.std.com

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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 08:16:25 -0700
From: Jason Goldman <jason at bluestar.cnd.hp.com>
Subject: Competition announcement


                Fort Collins, Colorado's homebrew club,
                   the Mash Tongues is announcing...

         The Fourth Annual March Mashfest Homebrew Competition.



   This is an AHA sanctioned competition.  The deadline for entries is
   March 1.  Rather than clog the digest with all the details, please
   email me for a postscript version of the entry materials or paper
   copies.


Jason Goldman
President,
Mash Tongues Homebrew Club
jason at bluestar.cnd.hp.com

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Date: 11 Feb 1994 09:14:00 -0600 (CST)
From: "Michael D. Hansen (708) 938-3184" <HANSEN.MICHAEL at igate.abbott.com>
Subject: wheat beers

Hi Gang,

Can anybody tell me what the fundamental difference is between a wheat beer, a 
weissbier, and a weizenbier? Anybody got a good recipe for a dunkelweizen 
(extract or mash-extract)?

TIA and brew on my friends!
Mike   (HANSENMD at RANDB.ABBOTT.COM)

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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 08:13:08 -0700
From: Jim Doyle <jgdoyle at uci.edu>
Subject: re:discounts at Fullerton

I seem to have lost the contact name and number regarding the fullerton
hoffbrau beerfest discounts for homebrewers...can somebody please enlighten
me?

Thanks...

jgdoyle at uci.edu


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Date:          Fri, 11 Feb 1994 08:21:52 CST
From: <AMBLAD at cei.com>
Subject:       Geeesh!

Is anyone ever going to discuss homebrewing/beer-related issues on 
this digest?  I read this thing for advice on brewing.  It seems like 
very few articles nowadays are about this subject.   There are plenty 
of knowledgable brewers out there.  Share your brewing expertise, 
please!


Steve Amblad
amblad at cei.com

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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 1994 09:14:56 -0700 (MST)
From: Mark_Worwetz at Novell.COM (Mark Worwetz)
Subject: Spaten Recipe

Greetings from Zion!

I have just recently been introduced to the Spaten family of beer (thanks to
our enlightened state liquor commission!), and I have found a true love
for the Spaten Optimator.  This beer is fairly dark, very malty without being
too heavy, and produces a nice little buzz.  Unfortunately, at $2.50 a pint
it also dents my wallet a bit too!  My question is:  Does anyone
have an EXTRACT based recipe for this beer?  I think I can get it close, but
would appreciate the knowledge of the HBD.  Private replies preferred.

Mark Worwetz
Mark_Worwetz at Novell.COM

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Date: 11 Feb 94 11:57 EST
From: rosentha at oasys.dt.navy.mil (Rich Rosenthal)
Subject: EKU28SCALDISSANTICLAUSPECHEUR 3619 ?'s

I like my beers STRONG!  Everything in excess.  Three of the strongest
beers i've been able to find, enjoy immensely and still be intrigued
by are EKU 28 malt liquor, Scaldis and santiclaus, but what's in them?
EKU 28 is the chocolateyest of the three, from Germany and 28 proof.
Scaldis is the nuttyest, from Belgium where it's called BUSH and the
lable saz its triple malted and hopped three times.  Santiclaus is the
maltiest and has the reputation of being the strongest beer available,
but only brewed one day a year in Switzerland. Pecheur 3619 is the
aphrodisiac beer from France. It saz it has ginger, cinnamon, Kola,
ginsing, cooriander Etc.

My questions are: For EKU 28 what kind of German malt can anyone taste
in there? Or does anyone know whats-in-there? Suggestions on hops or
GFerman malt liquor capable yeast strains would also be appreciated.

For Scaldis do they mean they use three different kinds of Belgian malts?
Which of the Belgians might give it the chocolate taste? Biscut? Special
B? Does hopped three times mean boil, aramatic, and finish or three
different strains of hops? Any good yeast ideas other then cultered
strains right from the bush bottles?>

For Santiclaus?  Any ideas on reproducing this brew?

Pecheur 3619? A typical spice beer receipe will work with all pale malts,
but what kind of hops is in there?

What other strong beers do any of you out there think i would like?
I tried a strong German bock in an all black non-see-through bottle
that was supposed to be as strong as the others mentioned but it didn't
taste that strong

HELP I WANT TO BREW THESE BEERS!x9

PS  Is the Rich Chillders from San Fran Ca the Rich i went to Lehigh
Universiry with?  Respond Rich

- -------

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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 94 10:26:54 -0700
From: ezimmerm at master.uwyo.edu (Eugene Zimmerman)
Subject: Fuggles, Saaz

I have the "Beer Hunter" series on video (thanks to my sweet wife ;) and
MJ says something like this:

 F + sm(UGGLE) + S --- get it? Just the paren part of smuggle is said. 
                       sort of like a pictogram.

 pi(ZZA) + pi(ZZA) --- ZAAZ is Chech, it has the German sounding Z which is
                       is like a 'TS' The first ZZA has a longer A sound...
                       

    Too bad the HBD doesn't include sounds. Hey, perhaps someone could
create a digitized pronouncation of these words and put them at sierra!

Gene in Laramie

ezimmerm at uwyo.edu

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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 94 10:29:14 MST
From: Earle M. Williams <earlew at drc.usbm.gov>
Subject: Queen of Beer / Cream Stout

I can see a major flame war *brewing* over whether or not the Queen of
Beers competition is sexist.  I'm sure my comments won't necessarily
keep the peace, but here goes:

To suggest that the competition is not sexist is to hide your head in
the sand.  An event that excludes individuals based on gender is sexist
discrimination.  Sure, you can put an innocuous (sp) sounding label on
it, such as 'social event', but that's like calling beer a sparkling
beverage derived from malted barley.  

Some people argue that the Queen of Beers competition is a GOOD THING, not
something evil.  I agree.  I'm encouraging my wife to go solo and brew her
own batch for the competition.  Do I feel excluded?  Hardly.  But I think
it's preposterous to belittle others' concerns over the exclusionary
nature of the competition.  Particularly annoying is the attitude that if
you think it's sexist you're a woman-hating fascist neanderthal.  
Rather than assuming the guise of a politically correct attack dog, why
not just look em in the eye (figuratively) and say 'Yeah, it's sexist.
So what?'  That much truth might be too uncomfortable for some...
Flames to farleft.liberal.I_know_what's_best_for_you.

For those still reading, I'm wondering how to brew a cream stout.
The vision of perfection I want to emulate is Watney's Cream Stout.
Anyone have any recipe suggestions?

TIA,
Earle

 -
Earle M. Williams
U.S. Bureau of Mines
Denver, Colorado  USA
(Internet) earlew at drc.usbm.gov

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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 94 13:28 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: lined oak/saaz/decoction mashing

Jack writes:
> Perhaps the real answer is even simpler.  It has been my understanding that
> barrels used for beer were coated with tar to prevent evaporation.  If this 

I believe that was "pitch" which although is related to tar somehow (according
to Websters), I don't think we would want to encourage anyone to try putting
roofing tar in their beer!  I believe that modern "lined" barrels are lined
with parafin, which don't think would impart a flavor to the beer.

*****
Bob writes:
>How do you say SAAZ. soft as in SOT or harder like in SAT?
>How about FUGGLES . is it like the u in RUG, or u in USE?

I too, am unsure about FUGGLES, I use a "u" as in RUG, but
SAAZ is pronounced: ZOTS (rhymes with POTS).

*****
James writes:
>I would like a pointer to a good source of information on decoction mashing.

"Brewing Lager Beer" by Greg Noonan, but there is a synopsis in the All-Grain
special issue of Zymurgy and there may be some info in Eric Warner's "German
Wheat" (it's on my pile of books to read, but I haven't gotten to it yet).

>Some quetions I have about the process: Does it produce different flavors
>that `temperature controlled' mashing?

I've read yes, but I haven't tried batches side-by-side, personally.

>Should I separate the grain from the liquid before boiling?

Yes, but you boil the grains and leave the liquid in the mash tun.  
This is true except for the final decoction (the one that gets you to
mash-out temps), according to Noonan, who says you should use the
thinnest part of the mash (just the liquid) for the final decoction.

>If not, then won't that extract lots of tannins?

Darryl Richman has proposed the theory that the pH of the decoction
(the part of the mash that you removed and boiled) is what keeps the
tannins from being extracted.  I must agree -- I've made some recent
changes to my methods that have resulted in getting rid of a pesky
astringency problem I was having and the solution was getting the
pH down to the low 5's.

>Also, won't boiling a fraction of the mash kill off the enzymes in that
>portion of the mash? Does that matter?

Yes, but there's very little there -- most of them are in the liquid.

Al.

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1348, 02/12/94