FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Mail order source of hop vine roots (Matthew Howell)
  Building a wine cellar (Steven Slaby)
  HOMEBREWING 101, QUEENS OF ("Patricia Moline")
  Re: Isinglass (Josh Grosse)
  potato(e)s (RONALD DWELLE)
  Re: Even Cheaper Carboys (708) 938-3184" <HANSEN.MICHAEL at igate.abbott.com>
  Beercaps (Christopher Alan Strickland)
  Pumpkin Ale ("Micah A. Singer")
  Acid Washing (Geoff_Scott)
  spigot installation in plastic bucket (Jonathan G Knight)
  brewing books for the rest of us (Mark A. Stevens)
  UBREW Shelf Life (GANDE)
  Seat of the pants brewing, iodaphor, hop book reveiw (Bob Jones)
  Yeast stickiness/African brews (Michael Sheridan)
  Brewing; the Art of Cooking vs. Science (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Seattle Sally ("C. John Mare")
  British Malt in German Beer (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Cooking vs Science, yeast query (Jeff Benjamin)
  U.K. Brewing/Fermenting (Andrew Ireland)
  Scotch and Scottish Ales (wyatt)
  New Homebrew club (CLINT BIHM)
  How to Get Started/ SN Porter ("Palmer.John")
  Stuck Barley wine... (djt2)
  alcohol sanitation/specialty malts/ (korz)
  Archives (Richard Buckberg)
  low-tech homebrewing: lagering and yeast banks (evanms)


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Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 08:20:49 -0500
From: Matthew Howell <howell at ll.mit.edu>
Subject: Mail order source of hop vine roots

          I am interested in growing my own hops this spring.  Can
          anyone provide me with an address and/or phone number of a
          good mail order source of hop vine roots?  Also, any advice
          regarding hop growing, for southern New Hampshire in
          particular, would be greatly appreciated.

                              Matt Howell
                              howell at ll.mit.edu


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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 08:45:10 -0500
From: an492 at freenet.carleton.ca (Steven Slaby)
Subject: Building a wine cellar

I am new to the group, and do not have access to get any archives or FAQ
file so here goes my question....

I would like to build a small wine cellar (160 btls) in my basement,
and I was hoping to here some suggestions on how to build it. My basement
does not have a cold room, but I am in the process of finishing right now,
and it is the perfect time to plan any changes to the layout...

Thanks,
  Steve.



- --
 "Grind on my gas pedal, Redliner touching my Heart"  | 67 Firebird Convert.
  by Max Webster                                      | 82 Seca 650 Turbo  
                                                      | 76 Honda XL250     
 Steve Slaby, Ottawa, Canada                          | 86 Jimmy           

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Date: 28 Feb 1994 08:45:37 U
From: "Patricia Moline" <patricia_moline at mailgate.Armstrong.EDU>
Subject: HOMEBREWING 101, QUEENS OF 

  REGARDING              HOMEBREWING 101, QUEENS OF BEER, COOPERS, CORNELIUS
KEGS




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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 06:47 PST
From: jdg00 at juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Josh Grosse)
Subject: Re: Isinglass

In #1360, George Kavanagh asked:

>Can anyone relate the merits, problems, and methods of use of isinglass
>finings?  I have read TNCJOHB entry, but am curious for more info.
>I have a boottle of a liquid preparation of "Isinglass Finings" packaged
>by Wines, Inc. of Akron, OH.  Label sez to use 1 tsp per gallon of beer.
>When?  Just before bottling, or should I let it rest awhile between
>adding the finings & bottling?

I've used Isinglass when making cask conditioned ales.  I've used it at 
kegging time, and add it at the same time I add dextrose.  I switched back 
to Polyclar.

IMHO, I wouldn't bother using isinglass with bottled beer at all.  But then, 
the stuff I have is powdered, and never dissolved well.

When I use Polyclar, I add it immediately after racking to the secondary.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Josh Grosse                             jdg00 at juts.ccc.amdahl.com
Amdahl Corp.                       joshua.grosse at amail.amdahl.com
Southfield, Michigan                                 810-348-4440


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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 09:51:08 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: potato(e)s

     A friend of mine just got 100 pounds of potatos that were in 
     winter storage, with the suggestion to use them fast before they 
     go bad. He might just take them to Salvation Army kitchen, but 
     they're mine if I can figure out a way to use them. My guess is 
     that there's starch in them there spuds. 
     
     Anybody have extraction method/direction? (Please note that my 
     facilities are limited--a 5 gallon grain mash is my max.)
     Anybody have a receipe for a potato beer?
     Would I be wasting my time?
     Cheers
     ron dwelle [dweller at gvsu.edu]

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Date: 28 Feb 1994 08:33:00 -0600 (CST)
From: "Michael D. Hansen (708) 938-3184" <HANSEN.MICHAEL at igate.abbott.com>
Subject: Re: Even Cheaper Carboys

Hi All!

As mentioned previously, Corning-Revere oulet stores have 5 gallon carboys for 
$8.99. In the Chicagoland area there are two outlets that I know of. One in St. 
Charles at the Piano Factory Mall and one in Wisconsin at the outlet mall at 
I-94 and Highway 50 (this is the second outlet mall north of the IL/WI border, 
not the first). I purchased a carboy at the one in St. Charles. Of course, I 
probably spent $2 in gas getting there......

Brew on my friends!
Mike   (HANSENMD at RANDB.ABBOTT.COM)

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Date: Sun, 27 Feb 94 10:22:40
From: Christopher Alan Strickland <beach!chris at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Beercaps

I use the garden variety beercaps, $2 a gross.  I boil my before using, is
this necessary, or even harmful?  I haven't seen anything on preparing caps,
in Miller, FAQ's, Papazan, etc.  I'm just leary of using unboiled caps for
fear of bateria contamination.  Sheesh, I'll have to have 2 homebrew's to
relax on this one.
- -- 
Chris Strickland
Internet: beach!chris at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov


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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 10:41:06 -0500
From: "Micah A. Singer" <Micah.A.Singer at williams.edu>
Subject: Pumpkin Ale


I just brewed a Pumpkin Ale using a recipe that included hops in their
leaf form and the pumpkin mush that you can buy in cans.  I was told
to use real pumpkin but New England in the winter isn't the place to
find it.  So, now I have it all in the primary.  I know I am going to
get a whole lot of sediment when I transfer but I am worried that too
much will remain in the concoction.  I would be really interested in
entertaining any suggestions or methods I can use to minimize sediment
in this particular case and in general.  Thank you in advance.

Micah Singer 

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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 10:09:45 EST
From: Geoff_Scott at magic-bbs.corp.apple.com
Subject: Acid Washing

I need some acid washing advice.
Background:
I wanted to add the yeast from my favourite brewery to my small collection
of slants.  They  brew with only one strain and it has put up well with
their frequent acid washing.  It is a very top fermenting ale yeast that
they top-crop for repitching.  I can't seem to get a sample from the
brewery so I have resorted to clandestine measures.  I took a 1L mason jar
with 500mL starter to a local pub where they serve three real ales from
this brewery.  I surreptitiously poured about half my pint of bitter into
the jar of wort.  My plan is to ferment it out, chill it a bit to knock any
yeast out of suspension, pitch this yeast into another starter and build up
the population through successively larger starters.  My mason jar and
starter wort were sterilised 15 min. under 15 PSI but obviously the beer
engine and my pint glass were not.  I realise that acid washing won't solve
a wild yeast problem but I thought that it might help knock out some
bacteria.  Since it is real ale they only use isinglass, it is not put
through a DE filter and it isn't pasteurised.  The bitter had a slight
haze. I think it's yeast since it was at proper cellar temperature and none
of their bottled products have chill haze.
Here are are my questions:
   1. What pH range should I aim for?
   2. Which acid should I use?
   3. Where do I get food grade acid?
   4. At what point should I wash it?
   5. Any practical tips for procedure?

thanks,
Geoff Scott
gscott at io.org
   or
Geoff_Scott at magic-bbs.corp.apple.com


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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 09:53:30 -0500 (cdt)
From: Jonathan G Knight <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: spigot installation in plastic bucket


With many thanks to those individuals who gave me the right advice a few 
weeks ago, I report that I have successfully installed a plastic spigot in my 
old plastic bucket.  Since moving to glass carboys a year or more ago, the 
busket that came with my original "brewing kit" has been relegated to 
bottling functions.  I had seen nifty looking plastic buckets with installed 
spigots in catalogs, and I might have actually gone and blown the twenty five 
bucks plus shipping or whatever it was, had I not seen this little spigot 
advertised for about three and a half bucks in the Home Brewery catalog (no 
connection, just a satisfied customer).  So, armed with this and a 7/8" spade 
bit for my drill (about $2 at my local True Value) I performed surgery last 
night.  I sat on the bucket to stabilize it and drilled the hole in just 
seconds.  It did take a half an hour or so of wiggling it around in the hole 
and fussing with the washers and just a little swearing before I was able to 
obtain a leak-proof fit.  But the patient is doing fine and I am looking 
forward to using my turkey baster as the Creator intended it to be used: on 
Turkeys!  So for any newbies like me (after 30 batches, I still consider 
myself a newbie!) who might be wondering about something really useful to do 
with that old plastic bucket, I highly recommend this approach!

Before signing off, I would like to second BadAssAstronomers posting in 1359.
This is a "forum on beer, homebrewing, and RELATED ISSUES."  These "related 
issues" are part of what keep me on the digest, including cooking vs. 
chemistry, women in homebrewing, and the latest exploits of Jim Koch.  I Do 
think we all need to be sensitive to the fact that most of us ARE primarily 
interested in the middle part - HOMEBREWING - but I would suggest that when 
another "related" subject comes along, we could all just step back and let it 
run its course, after which hop utilization formulae and RIMS design can 
return to the fore.  What wastes mor bandwidth, these discussions which are 
plainly invited by the Digest header, or the countless pleas to "stop, you're 
wasting bandwidth?"

I have learned a great deal from the HBD, and it hasn't ALL been about what I 
do in my basement!

A good day to all.

Jonathan Knight
Grinnell, Iowa							

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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 10:52:49 EST
From: Mark A. Stevens <stevens at stsci.edu>
Subject: brewing books for the rest of us



The discussions that Laura Conrad sparked by suggesting that
most brewing books are geared too much toward techno-weenies
brings up a lot of interesting points, and I agree with her
entirely that we need to see more books that are oriented more
toward the casual cook than toward the scientist if we are
to really see homebrewing enter the mainstream of household
activities. I'm heartened to see brewing machines at large
department stores and even those brew bags sold at places
like Sharper Image because they introduce brewing to a
wider market and add legitimacy to the hobby (how often do
boneheads ask you "Gee, is that legal?" or "You mean you
can really brew beer in your house?")

Al Korzonas' comment that there are already beer books
on the market that are written well enough to understand
by most people (he cites Papazian as an example) is
generally right, but these are still BREWING books more
than they are COOKBOOKS.

As many of our friends on HBD know, Karl Lutzen and myself
have been working on editing a book of beer recipes for
Storey Communication, which should be available a couple
months from now. In this book, we tried to take something
close to the cookbook approach, and I'd be interested in
knowing if it's viewed as such (once people get a chance
to check it out). We've really only got one place where
we talk about *HOW* to brew, and we come at it from the
angle of formulating a new recipe...mostly using rules
of thumb, although we also do provide info on hitting
targets more precisely, the emphasis is decidedly on
general ballpark guidelines, and I fully expect lots of
comments from the anal retentive crowd about how we
should really have given a full technical discussion
and dispensed with the ballpark figures. 

Certainly the technical discussions are interesting to
those who've been brewing for a long time and have an
inclination toward the science, but these tomes aren't
going to attract many newcomers to the hobby whereas
more accessible cookbook-type presentations might.

Bottoms up!

 - - Mark



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Date: 28 Feb 94 16:04:59 GMT
From: GANDE at slims.attmail.com
Subject: UBREW Shelf Life


Paul sez:

Date:  Sun, 27 Feb 1994 14:03:00 -0500
From: paul.merrifield at onlinesys.com (Paul Merrifield)
Subject: Shelf Life

>Why is it that the beer brewed at U-BREWS have such a short shelf
>life of about three months yet if I brew the same extract beer at
 ...SNIP

I work at a UBREW in Toronto. The reason that the beer doesn't have a
good shelf life is primarily due to bacterial infection. Let me
clarify. Most patrons use bottles that I wouldn't feed my dog out of,
but they get the impression that a squirt of Iodophor at the cleaning
station will make the bottles sterile. At the end of the evening
there's mats of green molds in the sinks at the cleaning stations,
and the customers always complain that the beer never lasts. I guess
not.

This is not to say that bacteria is not being introduced along the
way during the brew cycle, it is. But good UBREW operators check all
aspects of the operation weekly by innoculating a slant from each
machine and sending off to the lab for analysis. Return reports
indicate problem areas and are usually cleaned up. Ask the owner next
time what the bacterial counts are on the filters and carbonators, if
he tells you then you know he's keeping it clean, if he doesn't know
then I would be skeptical that he cares.

BTW I've brewed all-grain batches at the UBREW, bottled and kept them
for many months without spoilage.....Glenn
+----------------------------------+-----------------+
| Internet: gande at slims.attmail.com| "640K ought to  |
| Glenn Anderson                   |  be enough for  |
| Manager, Telecom. Facilities     |  anybody."      |
| Sun Life of Canada               |-Bill Gates, 1981|
+----------------------------------+-----------------+





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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 08:20:31 +0800
From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: Seat of the pants brewing, iodaphor, hop book reveiw

I have a friend here at work who wanted to try to make beer. He said "just 
tell me exactly what to do". I did and he made good beer. What he did was 
use my years of experience, forget his ego and followed directions. It is 
possible to make good beer without the techno stuff, IF someone holds your 
hand. Now about the gadjets like a hydrometer, say your cookbook brewer has 
a problem, then IF they use a hydrometer they can give their brew guru some 
info that might help solve the problem.

I recently noticed a blue stain in one of the buckets I use to hold cracked 
grain. The bucket had just had some iodaphor in it. It occurred to me that 
iodaphor would probably work very well as a starch indicator. Has anyone 
tried it? I keep meaning to give it a try when I'm mashing, but always forget.

I'm in the process of reviewing Mark Garetz soon to be published hop book. 
It does indeed exist and I think it will be worth the wait. It is very well 
written, and is packed with excellent detailed hop information.  He does 
offer a lot of new and probably controvercial info. so fasten your seat 
belts, and get a new battery for your calculator.


Bob Jones
bjones at novax.llnl.gov



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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 11:19:57 EST
From: mikesher at acs.bu.edu (Michael Sheridan)
Subject: Yeast stickiness/African brews

Hi y'all
Thanks to COYOTE for sending me the Cat's Meow because I still haven't 
figured out how to do a FAQ!  ;-)
	OK, on to my question.  I've been brewing from extracts for about 
a year now, and my newfound access to the HBD is paying off with an 
increasing appreciation of the breadth of my ignorance.  I recently made a 
*boosted* copy of Papazian's Propensity Pilsener:

Snowbound Pils  (made during one of the many storms of January)

6.5 #   M&F light ME
1    #   crystal malt grains
2.5 #    honey
1   tsp.  Irish moss  added at 25 min into boil
2.5  oz   Saaz  (boiling, entire 47 min)
 .5    oz   Tettnanger  (boiled last 12 min)
 .5    oz   Saaz   (aroma, boiled last 2 min)
1  14 gr. package Red Star lager yeast
[3/4 cup corn sugar, for bottling)

Procedure:
Crystal malt added to 1.5 gal cold water, brought to a boil, grains removed.
Extracts and 2.5 oz Saaz added, boiled 35 min.  Added Tettnanger, boiled 10
more minutes.  Added .5 oz Saaz, boiled 2 minutes.  Wort pot chilled in sink
and transfered to fermenter with cold water.  Carboy topped off to 5 gal.
O.G. was 1.042  (may be a bit low, I later discovered that our water is 0.990!)
F.G.  was 1.010, bottled 34 days after pitching
 
Haven't tried it yet, but here's the question:  what makes some yeast stick to
the bottom of the bottle?  Some of my ales were  just rock solid, I could pour
off the beer without disturbing the trub (right term?).  One IPA was just like 
this Pils looks, though, so that just picking up a bottle shows the yeast 
swishing around like a mini-storm in a brewcup.  
Any ideas/views/exaggerated claims on this one?  Is it the brand of yeast or 
adjuncts (Irish moss?  Dextrin malt?  Polyclar?)????

A completely unrelated topic:  African honey beer

I was a Peace Corps Volunteer in Kenya (any other RPCVs out there???),
and I had several opportunities to drink stuff called miritini.  It was a 
thick mead with a good head of beeswax and bee bits.  My friends told me
that the brewing procedure is as follows:

Get a largish baobab seed pod, dried out with the seeds removed (about the size
and shape of a football).  Fill it with honeycomb and some water, and stop up 
the hole with a waxy rag.  Bury it for three days under say, 4" of soil, and 
then light a small fire over the buried pod and let it burn for around 4-6 
hours.  When completely cool, dig up the pod and check it out.  If it's not 
great, rebury it for a while.  Serve with a straw to get under the layer of 
wax, or just spit it out as you drink.

Anybody have any refinements on this one?  There's also an Ethiopian mead 
called tech ("ch" as in "cheese") that's spiced with a vaguely fenugreekish
(?) herb.  Anyone with expertise, experience, or ideas on African homebrewing,
please post!  Let's leave out chang'aa (known in Boston as white lightning) 
and busaa (a corn mash fermented for 3-6 days, get a group of men and 4 foot 
long straws and suck out the alcohol.  It's sort of nasty), but I think it'd 
be fun to start an African thread in the HBD.  I'll look around for my 
notes on palm wine.

Asenteni wote kwa kunijibu na habari za pombe za kiafrika,
Mike Sheridan   (PC-Kenya 1988-1990)







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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 11:40:44 EST
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Brewing; the Art of Cooking vs. Science

I tend to be a number-oriented guy, but I also cook mostly
seat-of-the-pants.  However, I'm still developing my intuition for
making beer, and having the numbers to look at helps me determine what
effect various changes in recipe or procedure has had.  

One point that hasn't come up yet: having some numbers can really help
in diagnosing potential problems.  I've seen so many people asking (in
this digest) questions like "my beer stopped fermenting after only 3
days, what should I do?"  If they had an original gravity reading and
a gravity reading from the "stopped" fermentation, then it's a lot
easier to say "Oh, yeah, it just went fast, and now it's done," or
"Yup, you've got a stuck fermentation," than without the readings.

=S

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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 10:02:48 -0700 (MST)
From: "C. John Mare" <MARE at vetsci.agpharm.arizona.edu>
Subject: Seattle Sally

Fellow homebrewer's and beer aficionados, especially those in the
Seattle area, I need your help. I will be visiting Seattle for 3 days
at the end of next week (March 17, 18, & 19) and I would appreciate
advice on which brewery tours are worthwhile (preferably small
breweries), and which pubs and/or restaurants carry a good selection
of local brews while also serving acceptable food. Your input will be
much appreciated.
Also, is there a meeting of a local homebrew club which might be open
for a visit during this time. I'm curious about the format of
meetings of other clubs. Thank you in anticipation.
John Mare
Old Pueblo Homebrewers,
Tucson, Arizona.

PS: Please e-mail me directly to avoid cluttering our HBD.

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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 11:47:17 EST
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: British Malt in German Beer

How about trying a decoction mash?  It's not that hard:

mash-in to your cooler with about 1-1.5 qt/lb water to the protein
rest temperature.  Let it sit for 10-20 minutes.  Remove about 40% (or
a bit more for security) of the volume to a pot, getting mostly grains
and just enough liquid to not quite cover it.  (Try to leave most of
the liquid in the cooler.)  Heat the decoction on the stove to 150F
and hold it there for about 20 minutes for sugar conversion, until it
clarifies (you'll see the difference -- it's fun to watch), then heat
to boiling and boil for 20 minutes.  Slowly add the decoction back to
the main mash, with stirring.  This should bring the mash temperature
up to your saccarification temperature (if you've still got some of
the decoction left, just cool it to sacc temp and add it back, if you
didn't hit sacc temp, add a bit of boiling water).  Let it rest for an
hour, then remove about 1/3 of the volume, mostly liquid this time (I
drain some from the spigot, getting only liquid), and bring it to a
boil.  Add back with stirring to raise to mash-out, let the grain bed
settle for 10 minutes, and sparge.

You should get a maltier flavor (very appropriate for a Bock) and
slightly higher extraction than with an infusion mash, and you can use
the German malt.

It will take about an hour and a half longer than an infusion mash,
though.

=S

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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 9:58:53 MST
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Cooking vs Science, yeast query

> How many world-class chefs out there are chemists?

Um, more than you might think.  Chefs at most of the top schools these
days are taught as much chemistry as a brewer might learn at Seibel.  If
you're going to be a top-notch chef or brewer, it pays to learn *why*
the ingredients behave the way they do.

If such information appeals to you, read _On Food and Cooking_ by Harold
McGee.  It's a fascinating look at the science of food, and very
readable.

> Cider making yeasts?

Closer to the subject of brewing, I'm looking for opinions on yeasts for
cider making.  I have an excellent batch of cider that used the WYeast
Pasteur champagne, but it came out drier than I wanted.  Anyone have a
recommendation for a less-attenuative, low-ester-producing yeast?  What
about the WYeast Montrachet wine yeast?  Reply via email, please, and
I'll summarize.

- --
Jeff Benjamin                               benji at hpfcla.fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co.                         Fort Collins, Colorado	
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
					    - T.S. Eliot

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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 13:00:30 GMT
From: Andrew Ireland <andy at memex.co.uk>
Subject: U.K. Brewing/Fermenting

First off, Thanks to everyone who mailed me and told me about the p-Lambic
digest, since I'm only beginning to brew I'll think about joining this later.

Now, am I the only person on the HBD to be based in the UK???

I'm just getting into Beer/Winemaking, and enjoy the process and results (hic).
My first Gallon of Red wine died a horrible and nasty death, but I have just
bottled a "Ten Day Red" wine kit from Boots.  Its not bad, and has reasonable
(for the price) taste.

Has anyone out there on the HBD fermented any other wines from Boots?  I have
a "Chardonnay" style wine fermenting in a Gallon jar right now, which should be
ready in time for the Summer.  Since the availabilty of grapes is not exactly
brilliant (living in Scotland, the weather being bad for vines),  all the wine
kits are made from concentrated Grape Juice, sugar, and sachets of yeast.

Now I'm thinking of brewing, Boots (a chain of Chemists/Drug Stores) sell 
wine and Brew kits, and am thinking about buying their "Starter Lager Kit", 
which for the price "includes everything you need to brew & bottle 5 gallons
of Lager", a 5 gallon Plastic Bin, plastic bottles, Siphon tubes, Malt extract,
"brewer's yeast",  etc...

Has anyone made this, or can anyone tell me of any better homebrew shops in the
Glasgow area?  A forlorn hope maybe, but worth a shot.

Cheers!

    Andy.
 - ---
Andrew Ireland				<entirely my own opinions>
Memex Information Systems Ltd., East Kilbride, G75 0YN, Scotland, UK. 
andy at memex.co.uk	  Tel: (03552) 33804     Fax: (03552) 39676

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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 09:30:06 pst
From: wyatt at Latitude.COM
Subject: Scotch and Scottish Ales

        I have taken an interest in Scotch and Scottish Ales and would like 
     to hear from anyone else who has similar interests especially if they 
     have any experience.  I am especially interested in fermentation 
     temps, yeast strains, sparging techniques, and recipes.  I have 
     Noonan's new book but am looking for more specific info.  Also has 
     anyone tried Wyeast's new Scottish Ale Yeast(#1728).  I can be reached 
     at Wyatt at latitude.com Thanks. 


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Date:    Mon, 28 Feb 1994 11:45:26 -0600 (CST)
From: BIHM at LUB002.LAMAR.EDU (CLINT BIHM)
Subject: New Homebrew club

Hello out there,
A friend of mine here in Beaumont Texas is starting a homebrew club.
he asked if I would list it on homebrew in case anyone is interested.
Here it goes, if you are interested in joining, giving advice,anything,
email bihm at lub002.lamar.edu or Genuardi at lub002.lamar.edu
or call  Greg Hight at (409)769-1655, he's the one who is starting the
club up, I've only brewed 6 batches (But I'm having FUN doing it), so
if you have any questions, i'll be forwarding them to him.
ttyl8r
Clint

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Date: 28 Feb 1994 09:40:48 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: How to Get Started/ SN Porter

Hello Group,

Eric Wickham at CMU wrote asking how to get started,ie what temps are used.
Eric, I tried mailing you my How to Brew Your First Beer, Rev C., but your
address bounces. Please email me at palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com with your proper
email acct so I can send it to you.  At this time, I have not had any luck
finding out how to get it onto Homebrew at Sierra so people can FTP it. (Help?)
Any other beginning brewers out there can also email me for it. I have mailed
out some 300 copies to Europe, North America, and Australia. It is intended to
be freely distributed, but all rights reserved and all that. I am happy to be
able to contribute something to this great hobby. If you have previously
requested it and not heard from me or would like an updated version, just drop
me a note. By the way, please use something innocuous like *Document* as the
subject. I don't want my boss to realize that I spend all of my time discussing
BEER with people. :*)
***
Here is my all-grain recipe for Sierra Nevada Porter. I got the ingredients and
amounts straight from the brewer during a tour there. Dividing by 500 gave me
the following recipe.
For 6 gallons:
9.8 lbs of Pale 2row
0.4 lbs of Dextrin Malt (American Carapils)
0.4 lbs of Crystal 60
0.4 lbs of Chocolate Malt
0.2 lbs of Black Patent
about 45 IBU of Perle and Liberty Hops (60,30,15 minutes)
Wyeast American Ale
80 minute mash at 153F.  OG was 1.058, FG was 1.012
I brewed this, and after 3 wks in the bottle is it quite good. I currently have
a Panel of Expert reviewing it, and when he tries it, we'll know more on how to
tweek the recipe. Right now, I would say be careful of the Black Patent, and
cut back on the Dextrin Malt to maybe a quarter pound. I think it has a bit too
much of a sweet aftertaste. The Front-taste is fine, as is the Hop balance,
though next time I want to pull back a couple of tablespoons of the Black
Patent for my taste. 
For you extract brewers, I would say to use 6-7 lbs of Pale Extract and use all
of the specialty grains.
*Would one of you veterans comment on my mash time? How would mashing for half
that time affect the flavor profile?
***
Speaking of Mashing (FAQ), I am still putting the Questions together, and
sometime soon I will post that list and solicit responses from y'all.

John Palmer MDA-SSD M&P palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com

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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 12:57:21 -0500
From: djt2 at po.cwru.edu
Subject: Stuck Barley wine...

This weekend saw two batches emerge from the cellar. The first was an all
grain Barley wine for which I ended up with 2.5 gallons of 1.110 o.g. wort.
It was mildly hopped with only 1/2 oz of Bullion. The second was an all
grain Porter that began with the late sparges from the Barley wine (waste
not!) and yielded 7 gallons of 1.060 o.g., this time more highly hopped.
Both batches were cooled and aerated identically.

I pitched each batch with identical starters, 16 oz of "Dublin stout" yeast
purportedly from Guinness, grown in 2% sucrose, 1% DME for 4 days. Both
starters looked identical.

The morning after pitching, the Porter is bubbling away happily, and the
barley wine was sitting there stock still. It is in a half full 5 gallon
carboy, but there seems to be _no_ activity now 36 hours after pitching.

Is this a problem of the yeast being inhibited by the high o.g.? This is
11% sugar, well under what grape juice would be, but more than I have used
in any of my past brews. This strain is not terribly attenuative in my past
experience, but I don't see what attenuation has to do with tolerance of
high o.g.'s 

Do you folks have experience with difficulty in high o.g. worts? I know I
might have chosen a different yeast for *finishing* reasons, but is there
an obvious preference for barley wines because of sugar tolerance??

TIA,
Dennis Templeton.



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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 12:15 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: alcohol sanitation/specialty malts/

Mait writes:
>first- someone was talking about alcohol spray for sterilizing.  Why do you

Those of you considering using an alcohol spray for *sanitizing* (not
sterilizing -- you need an autoclave or pressure cooker to even get close),
you must consider the contact time.  The contact time for sanitizing with
50% ethanol is at least 15 minutes (sorry, don't have my books here).

>Second-I have been reading about brewing with specialty malts.  Papazian says
>to mix with cold water and bring to a boil, but other people say to steep for
>various amounts of time at about 150 degrees.  What's the difference here? 
>If you were mashing, you would boil the malt.  Why the difference with malt
>extract brewing?

One very important point that is often overlooked.  Charlie's method of
removing the grain after the water/grain comes to a boil only works if you
do a partial boil and if you don't have high carbonate water.  If you put
1# of crystal malt in 1 gallon of average alkalinity water, your pH will
be in the low 5's (in Chicago water, it's actually closer to 4.8). Boiling
this a short while won't extract a lot of tannins.  However, if you switch
to doing full boils, then you're putting 1# of crystal in 6 gallons of
water and your pH might be somewhere in the 7's or even 8's (in Chicago
water, it was 7.4, if I recall correctly)!  You don't even have to reach
boiling temperatures to get a significant tannin extraction.

Secondly, don't confuse steeping of crystal, chocolate, roast barley
or black patent malts with mashing.  Mashing is where you raise base
or color malts (such as pale ale, pilsner, munich, biscuit, aromatic, etc.)
to 150F and wait for the enzymes to convert the starches to sugars.
Then you separate the liquid from the husks and go to the boil.  Crystal
malts are already mashed (in the husk, so to speak).

When you say "If you were mashing, you would boil the malt."  I assume
you are referring to decoction mashing, which is considerably more
complicated than infusion mashing or stovetop mashing, where you raise
the entire mash to the desired temperature all at once.

****

Eric writes:
>I'm considering purchasing a brewing kit to brew beer.  At what temperarures
>must it be kept at?  Does it need to be heated or refridgeratered?

Ales are generally fermented between 60 and 75F and lagers between 45 and 55F.
Each yeast has it's own range of preferred temperatures, but for starters,
I would suggest that you use one of the newer, cleaner dry yeasts (Nottingham,
Windsor, Red Star, Coopers) and ferment between 65 and 70F.  Once you get
more comfortable with the mechanics of brewing, you can read up on liquid
yeasts and their temperature preferences and expand your horizons.  Till
then, stick with ales and relax.

****
Rick writes:
>A brew friend of mine has a problem. He's 5 ale-batches along and
>every one is becoming over-carbonated at about the 2-month-in-bottle stage.
	<snip>
>All are extract ales with some partial mashes (a lb or 2 extra grain).
	<snip>
>Oh, this might matter - he does concentrated wort boils and 
>adds about 3 gal cold water to make 6 gal.

I'm willing to bet he's got bacterial or wild yeast infections.  A couple
of possible sources (see above): grain dust and the cold water.
Have him try crushing the grain outdoors and boil and chill the 3 gallons
he uses to add to the concentrated wort.  Besides that, theres all the
standard sources for infections: scratched fermenters, grungy hoses, sucking
on the siphon hose to start, etc.  Watch him do his process and see where
he could be going wrong (i.e. putting a sanitized racking cane down on an
unsanitized countertop).

>  1)  If I've forgotten to take a final SG reading at bottling time,
>       can I get a valid one from a 'finished' bottle - you know - 
>       later, when I pour one to enjoy?

You can, but you have to de-gas it -- the carbonation will stick to the
hydrometer and throw off the measurement.
       
>  2)  When, in the brewing process, would one add fruit extract 
>      to, say, a stout?       

If the fruit has sugar, add it after the primary fermentation is basically
over (so the CO2 from the primary ferment does not scrub out more of the
fruit aromatics).  If the extract has no sugar in it, then you can add it
at bottling time, either in the bottling vessel or in each bottle (a pipette
is a handy tool here).

>  3)  And, when (as above) would one add malto-dextrin (not grain) to,
>      say, a stout?

100% malto-dextrin should be unfermentable, but there is a chance that there
are still some fermentables in there.  To be on the safe side, I'd add it
in the boil -- don't let your friend with the infection problem use M-D till
he gets a handle on his infection -- he'll be making glass grenades!

Al.

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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 10:13:01 -0800
From: Richard Buckberg <buck at well.sf.ca.us>
Subject: Archives


What does one need to use for a login and password to get access to the
archives at ftp sierra.stanford.edu  ??  

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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 11:44:02 -600 (CST)
From: evanms at lcac1.loras.edu
Subject: low-tech homebrewing: lagering and yeast banks

A running line of opinion on the HBD seems to be the division between 
high-tech and the low tech brewers. WE brew at the level that we brew at
and, as near as I can tell, we all produce beers that are infinitely more
interesting than the mass market varieties.  I've been an active brewer
for over five years through nearly 90 batches from meads to ales to
lagers.  In the intervening time I advanced from extract to all-grain. 
None-the-less my techniques are simple but effective.  I've picked up
little suggestions through the Q and A section of Zymurgy and also
developed some stuff through basic ingenuity.  Here are a couple Ideas
that have produced excellent results and involve little work or laboratory
expertise.

Mini-lagering tanks:
Most articles that discuss effective lagering point out that the brew must
be under some sort of pressure.  Keg owners can adjust to this requirement
no problem, while the rest of us just scratch our heads.  I read in an
obsucre "ask the Professor" column that those that 'don't have it' can
simply lager the beer in their mini-lagering tanks---the bottles!  I set my
old basement frigidaire to about 30 degreesF (I hang an old thermometer
from one of the shelves) and set the cases in.  After about two weeks, my
lagers have crisped up and are nearly as clean as Becks or Berghoff.  The
beer gets drunk up fast enough to make way for new batches down the line. 
The same effect cannot be had if the temps are much higher.  30-32F is
about perfect.

"Heinz" yeast bank:
The 1989 Zymurgy Special Issue--Yeast, contained an article by Pierre
Rajotte about saving yeast dregs.  This issue and the articles by Rajotte
are essential to any homebrewer who has an interest in the lively yeast
beasts in their beers.
This is how I do it:
I use 22 ounce glass heinz catsup jars to store my dregs. Soak in a dilute
bleach solution.  Rinse with boiling water; pour boiling water through a
small funnel and this will sterilize the funnel.  Do all this just prior
to racking to the secondary.  Sterilize a stopper and airlock--a 5.5
stopper fits perfect.  After siphoning swirl the dregs with the little bit
of beer left over until the cake is loose from the bottom.  Swab the
carboy opening or the edge of your plastic bucket with a little vodka and
pour the dregs into the catsup bottle.  Leave a little air space in case
the yeast is still active.  Stopper up and store in the kitchen fridge.
	When I repitch I swab the jar opening with vodka or aquavit or
what ever.  The yeast builds up from batch to batch; after 3 or 4 I've got
a good 16 ounces of yeast to pitch.  Rajotte says the yeast will keep for
2-4 weeks.  I can concur and add that I pitched a belgian yeast from a
wyeast culture almost 8 weeks after saving with superior results.  If in
doubt make a quart sterile wort starter, pitch in the saved dregs, and
check for life.  Intuition is  big part of this process.  I've saved both
lager and ale cultures through many batches--about six is the average; I
saved a belgian culture through nearly a dozen ales (tripples,
abbeys,white beers, oud bruins, and specials)over the course of a whole
year.  I can't stress good sanitation enough.  Once you get the hang of
it.it's like riding a
bicycle.  And it is economical, too.  Divide the # of pitches by the price
of a culture (about $4.00) and you have world class brew for the price of
dry yeast!  Keep a journal of your experience or ask other brewers for
their experience.  I've done this with many strains and can pass along the
staying power of any of them on request.

Someday I'm going to invest in petrie dishes, agar, and streaking tools,
but for now I'm sticking with my dregs.  It's how many breweries do it and it
hasn't failed me yet!

Mark Evans

|-|-|-|-|  mashing on the upper Mississippi|-|-|-|-|



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1361, 03/01/94