FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Racking Woes / To Be a beginner again...anecdotal. (COYOTE)
  COLD HOPPING (Jack Schmidling)
  homemade cream soda (David G. Modl)
  two yeasts (RONALD DWELLE)
  Brewpub Reviews in HBD? ...the saga continues... ("J. Andrew Patrick")
  Coyote Cooker Report (COYOTE)
  rheinheits,ice beers,mailing brew to contests (Mark Bunster)
  BrewPub List at sierra (John DeCarlo              x7116          )
  reinheitsgebot (Steven Tollefsrud)
  broasting (Bob Jones)
   (Bob Jones)
  belgium malts/sugar (Kelly Doran)
  Kegs, water pumps (fudgemstr)
  Re: #1(2) Homebrew Digest #13... (ac4ix)
  Plastic tubing/boiling water - bad thing? (Brett Charbeneau)
  KEG AS BOILING POT/TUN DESIGNS? ("CHARLOTT.KBARRY")
  Brewers Resource/BrewTek Where are you?? (Jack Skeels)
  index (Gene Hegarty)
  My Pilsner (GNT_TOX_)
  HBD Reader (STAUFFER_ERIC_B)
  (S) 5 Liter Kegs                             IBM Confidential (greenbay)
  acid wash pH (btalk)
  Attn: Jim McNutt ("Pamela J. Day 7560")
  hydrometers out-of-wack ("Daniel F McConnell")
  Re: iodophor as starch indicator (Steve Dempsey)
  ANONYMOUS FTP HELP - GET IT HERE (Chris Pencis)
  Brunswick Brew Club Road Trip (cong)
  maple syrup fermentability (REGINAH)
  kegging? (sekearns)
  Canada Malting Data Sheet (GANDE)
  cooler tun ? (Carl Howes)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 11:29:01 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Racking Woes / To Be a beginner again...anecdotal.


>  Rob the carboy crusher   ..has racking woes...;~}
>  I am looking for a better way to rack my brew from the carboy
 to the bottling bucket. Has anyone else tried puting a spigot
 on the side of their carboy? I have tried 3 times and every
 time I use a centerpunch to mark the pilot hole the carboy breaks.
 I tried using a smaller hammer, but that didn't work either.

*  Ouch.  That hurts!  (get that painful grimace a guy gets when he
hears of or sees some other guy get wacked in the nuts.
Sorry ladies. This is a guy thing.  ...female equivalent (or worse!?)...
 ...giving birth perhaps?  But that's a joyous time....?)
Rob- you must be loaded (with either money, or liquor!) or work at 
Mnt Springs water supply to have so many carboys to sacrifice.
                                
* Try the plastic bucket with a plastic spigot installed at the bottom.
Plastic is easy to drill.  There are other options to siphoning.
A red cap with two holes in it...blow in one, racking tube in the other.
These are commecially available. A two holes stopper could do the same thing.

I always start siphons with a full tube of water (no sucking) and just
spill the water in a glass till the tubing is full of brew, then off it goes.
No sweat. It's really not that big a deal, unless you let it be. Just Do It.

***
Dick Dunn referenced Hydrometers in antiquity:
    "...then put in as much of the best Honey you can get, as will bear an
    egg to the breadth of two-pence ; that is, till you can see no more of
    the egg above the water then a two-pence will cover..."
<Describes own experiences, compares bread baking/brewing....inexact measures>

*  I'm there wit'ya Dick.  Even the frugal gormet measures a tbsp as a splash
and a teaspoon as a pinch.  I always use my palm as my means of measuring.

<  I can't teach anyone to make bread effectively, because by now so much
    of the process is intuitive that I don't know what to describe.  It
    would be a lot easier if I were less sure of myself.  You may work
    intuitively, but you can't teach intuition.>

*  An excercise practiced in teaching classes involves making a list
of EVERY step involved in making a peanut butter sandwich. Then someone else
steps up and tries to follow the directions. NOTHING can be inferred.

You can't imaging how many people end up stuck with a lid in one hand,
and a knife in the other and no way to perform the next step, or how many
pieces of "buttered" bread land butter side down on the counter!
(ever read the butter battle book?  Seuss. )

The point is... from experience SO MANY little steps become second nature.
To write a how-to book for the beginner w/o covering all those little steps
leaves the reader/brewer with incomplete directions. Or..the author goes into
SO much detail that the newbie is overwhelmed and frustrated.
I've explained the brewing process a zillion times to interested folks,
but to go back to the point where it was all new to me...ah the daze...

My first "mashing" experience involved going to the "homebrew" supply store
in my little town and asking the gal at the counter (who didn't have a clue
about brewing! But NOT BECAUSE she was a girl, just because she didn't have
a clue!) for some MALT for mashing. They only had crystal malt, and I needed
pale malt. She pointed me to some PALE MALT - as labelled - which consisted
of a bag of fine powder. I said I wanted grain and new it needed to be
ground up. Was this perhaps an VERY fine grind of actual grains? She sed...
yeah, I guess I could be?  So- clueless myself...I bought it.

Up to that point I had used cans of extract with specialty grains.
I had constructed a bucket, with a spigot, and a mesh bag held up by
a bungee cord as a lauter tun (I read all the big words in CP's book! :)
Well, upon adding the water, grains, and the "pale malt" to my brewing pot,
and sitting it upon the stove to carefully raise the temperature to a comfy
60 deg C. I pulled out a sample after 1/2 hour and tried a starch test.
Hmmm....nice and black...one hour....nice and black.  I was very puzzled by
the fact that all that powdered "malt" had seemed to disappear.

So...on I went. I poured the mix into my lauter tun, and proceeded to
strain out...only the crystal malt? Hmmm ....not quite the grain bed
I read about.  So I sparged and went on to make....beer.
It came out fine,  but  was not exactly an encouraging "mashing" experience.
(I never even tried a starch test again. A friend just said- double all
of Charlie's times and just go for it.)

This is how I discovered Dry Malt Extract.  Sometime later I went to a 
"REAL" homebrew supply store and got grains, and learned how to mash
properly.  Same lauter tun.  But...just a little anecdote to remind myself
and others how foreign a lot of this business can be. The RDWHAHB concept
is truly the rule of thumb.  Try stuff...ask friends with experience, read,
learn, advance your knowledge at whatever pace you feel comfy with.

for the beginner: Follow recipes exactly....get comfortable with processes
and amounts and types of additives. Start simple. Work up if you wish.
Stay simple if you're comfy with it.  Do what you like...DoWhatYouLike...

Personally I "formulate" recipes in the manner Dick described.
I go to my grain room, and start with a base grain- decide on strength,
then decide what color I want.  I rarely brew "to style". It has happened.
But more often I proceed from Pale malt, to crystal, to belgian malts,
to dark malts...it all depends on the mood, depends on what jumps out at me.

I generally measure hops by the handful. I recently got a scale with a
tray big enough to hold an ounce at a time, so I checked myself. One pretty
full handful of whole hops runs...about an ounce. Just what I thought.

Just feel comfort in knowing that with time you will develop a routine that
works for you, and you get a "feel" for what the different ingredients
contribute.  You won't have to measure everything exactly and precisely...
you'll just know based on your equipment, and materials.

An example: I discovered yesterday to my dismay that I only had 3 # pale malt.
So what did I do...go to the store mentioned above and buy some?   NOT!
(it's more of a coffee shop that happens to sell brewing supplies.Sometimes)
A little wheat, a little rye, some munich, vienna. Ok dip into the german 
pale malt.  Voila'  up to my usual 18 # base malt. On I went.
Ended up with 10gal of 1.040 OG wort.  Good enough for goverment work!

    |\
  |\| \/|   \-\-\-  John (The Coyote) Wyllie   SLK6P at cc.usu.edu  -/-/-/
   \    |      
    ----

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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 12:33 CST
From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: COLD HOPPING

 
 
 >In HBD 1355, Domenick Venezia asked:
 
 >My last all-grain batch, an ESB dry hopped 4 days with 1oz/5gal Kent
 >Goldings, has a grassy haylike flavor tone....
 
 I don't expect universal agreement with my views but that flavor is precisely 
 why I gave up on "dry hopping" as a bad idea.  It is my opinion that this is 
 the result of what should actually be called COLD hopping.
 
 That herbal, grassy flavor results from not cooking the hops.  It is 
 eliminated in the boil and if added while the wort is hot enough to cook it 
 off.
 
 I won't argue with those who like the taste but to suggest that it is some 
 exotic problem created by blue smoke and mirrors is misleading to say the 
 least.
 
 js
 

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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 11:41:48 MST
From: digem at wrangler.lanl.gov (David G. Modl)
Subject: homemade cream soda


Hello,

I have a problem with my homemade cream soda that, maybe, someone can 
help me with.  I make the soda using extract/concentrates, table sugar,
and champagne yeast.  I do the same for my homemade rootbeer but don't
have such an extreme problem.

The problem is the taste of the soda - it has a very heavy yeast taste
that makes the cream soda mostly undrinkable.  I think my rootbeer comes
out OK because it has a much more robust flavor which hides the yeast
overtones.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to make a better tasting cream soda?

Thanks for your time.

Regards,
Dave 

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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 13:41:51 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: two yeasts

     I asked this Q before, but I think it got buried in a longer 
     message:
     Charlie P. says about American Cream Ale only that it uses two 
     yeasts, an ale and a lager. Question: how are these used? 
     Together? Ale in ferment; lager in condition? Vice Versa? Is one 
     killed off or filtered out before other is pitched?
     If not in Am.Cream Ale, how are two yeasts used in other 
     types/receipes? Any suggestions to shorten my learning curve?
     TIA
     Ron Dwelle (dweller at gvsu.edu)
     The Grand-River Brewery
     "It Can't Taste As Bad As The Water"

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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 12:55:15 -0600 (CST)
From: "J. Andrew Patrick" <andnator at Mercury.mcs.com>
Subject: Brewpub Reviews in HBD? ...the saga continues...

In HBD #1359, Jeff Frane flames me:

> Well, I am certainly relieved to hear that there is an official
> description of the Homebrew Digest -- this has been weighing on me
> heavily.  My only question is: "Who the hell is Paul Gilster and when
> did he last participate in the Digest?"

The quote in question was written by the HBD Digest Coordinator, NOT by Mr.
Gilster.  I should have made this explicit in my posting, and for that I
do apologize.  BTW, and since you asked, Mr. Paul Gilster has written the
single best reference book on Internet that I have ever encountered.  I
quoted HIS QUOTE from The Internet Navigator, because this book is a
widely available and authoritative source on such matters.

> J Andrew, the Digest is essentially run by consensus, not by Paul
> Gilster, whoever he is, and there are some who feel that brewpub reviews
> are not appropriate here.  I didn't tell you that you "couldn't post
> this!" (exclamation points or not)  I appealed to the self-interest of
> homebrewers, who might, like me, be tired of brewpub reviews clogging
> the digest, which *officially* is a homebrew digest.
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It is not clear to me at all that this is the case.  What does it say at the
very top of the digest EVERY day?

       " FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
                  ^^^^                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor"

You say that we should take brewpub reviews "elsewhere", but dont say where
this "elsewhere" is located.  Alt.Beer is NOT an acceptable substitute,
as many HBD subsribers do not have access to the USENET discussion groups.

I had an e-mail discussion with Mr. Norm Pyle recently concerning the
advisablity of putting this issue to a vote by the entire HBD membership.
We both think this is a good idea, but neither of us has the technical
resources to manage the flood of e-mail that would ensue.
SO PLEASE DON'T VOTE YET!!

If anyone has experience running such a mass electronic ballot box, I would
be grateful to hear from you via private e-mail.

|Sysop         |         Andrew Patrick          |       Founder|
|Home Brew Univ| AHA/HWBTA Recognized Beer Judge |Home Brew Univ|
|Midwest BBS   |  SW Brewing News Correspondent  | Southwest BBS|
|(708)705-7263 |Internet:andnator at genesis.mcs.com| (713)923-6418|



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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 11:57:51 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Coyote Cooker Report

The Camp Cooker Experience

Thanks for the info and experiences from those of you that sent them.

The common thread?    They are a joy to the brewing experience.
Efficient, effective, sturdy, and it get's ya outa the kitchen!

I went ahead and picked up the two burner Model DL-60L Camp Chef Cache Cooker
for ~$68. Rated at 60,000 btu.  It weighs 35 lbs, so I don't think I'll
take it backpacking!   ACME catalog 22c. Page 45, Order number DL6AO2. :)

The extension legs raise it to a comfy waist height.  Heats like a demon!
4 gallons of sparge temp fluid to a boil in 8 mins. Not bad! Beats me
electric stove hands down!  Especially when I fill up my 15 gal boiling
pot!  Nice control of the gas. Full tilt, to a slow boil with the twist
of a lever. 

I gave it a test run in the basement. The paint burned off the grate and 
stunk pretty fierce, so I stuck in the stairway with the back door open,
and could close it off from the basement. That was ok. Now the paints done
burning off (is that normal? I presume?!)  so I gave it another run inside 
the basement right next to a window with a fan outside pulling air out.
I also stuck the tank outside the window. 
    That seemed to be one of the real hazards...leaking gas from tank, 
accumulates on the floor and can ignite. 
    (Picture a singed Coyote blasting up thru two stories of a house and 
soaring throught the roof to finally plummet down to bottom of a deep
ravine.  Poof...cloud of dust...pot of boiling wort whistles down to land
on head of singed pathetic looking Coyote, pummeling him into the ground. :(

The other caution is from fumes, and flames using up oxygen.
My basement is far from airtight. With the air vent open, windows open, door
open, I think I've got a pretty ...open... system set up.  When I own property
I will probably build/install a vent hood system to draw out the exaust.
But its probably safer that cooking in my camper! (same gas-smaller space)

Bottom line: I'm hooked!  I love it!  Great investment. Should last forever!
and for another $60 I can get a BBQ grill accesory and have a gas grill for
BBQ's.  I even cooked dinner on one burner while I heated sparge water on the
other.  The only other trick was to re-plumb my immersion chiller to the
basement "hose" fittings.  Now I just have to plan on doing laundry with the
run-out, at least till spring when I can send the run off out the window to
water my hop vines!  :)

The only real difficulty was remembering to bring EVERYTHING downstairs
that I need for brewing.  Damned....irish moss....ONE more trip!
Guess I gotta do something to work off all those homebrews! Stair climbing.
At least I don't have to carry full carboys down two flights anymore!

It may be some time before I can find MORE TOYS to get for the ever
improving Cosmic Coyote Brewery!  Well, maybe not THAT long....

    |\
  |\| \/|   \-\-\-  John (The Coyote) Wyllie   SLK6P at cc.usu.edu  -/-/-/
   \    |      
     ----

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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 14:44:23 EST
From: mbunster at hibbs.vcu.edu (Mark Bunster)
Subject: rheinheits,ice beers,mailing brew to contests

Hi all--despite the occasional silliness, I still find hbd to be quite
helpful and enjoyable. Everyone relax.

Rheinheitsgebot does indeed sound like a way to restrict the group of people
who can brew, much like craft guilds of the period when the Rhgbt was
established. Beer brewing (at least in Germany) had to be quite financially
rewarding, and there had to be some way to keep out rabble--making the most
expensive ingredients the only ones available seems like one good way to do
so, and also easily fronted as being for a different reason: "to keep our
beers pure." Germans (I am one) are pretty cranky when it comes to beer--I
recall something from college about immigration which discussed Germans being
hardworking, punctual, respectful of order and authority, etc--all the typical
stereotypes. However, the piece chronicled a town in Wisconsin wherein a new
law banning public beer consumption (bought or drunk at pubs) on Sundays was
met by a town riot at City Hall. For some reason this piece of history makes
me proud.

There's an excellent article on Ice Beers in the latest BarleyCorn (free rag
on the east seaboard.) Describes the process, compares the beers to each
other and to a ringer (non-ice). Since alcohol freezes slower than water,
when you freeze the beer then remove the ice crystals, you're removing water
and leaving alcohol, and also smoothing out the flavor. Bud's is the same ABV
as regular, though, because as someone noted they put water back in.
They liked Molson Ice best, followed by Colt Ice (a whopping 7.5 ABV), Genny
Ice, Bud Ice, and Icehouse from Miller. The ringer was Coors, which finished
dead last, for what that's worth--I suppose it means the flavor of ice beers
is marginally better than standard Us swill.

Finally, I'm sending off my entries to a contest--lots of people noted that
Beers Across Am is sent via RPS--does anyone know the full name and which
larger packaging chains service via RPS? Or is there a 1800 #? Failing that,
I can just put "yeast cultures" on the UPS tag, right?



- -- 
Mark Bunster                      |I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Survey Research Lab--VCU          |
Richmond, VA 23284                |
mbunster at hibbs.vcu.edu            |
(804) 367-8813/353-1731           |

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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 15:01:44 EST
From: John DeCarlo x7116 <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: BrewPub List at sierra

J. Andrew Patrick writes that the list has a file date of 1992.  Well, 
the file date is November 1993, in actuality.  Plus, when someone wrote 
to me about brewpubs in Dec or Jan, his *September 1993* copy was out of
date compared to what was on sierra.

So, *someone* is updating it regularly.  This has been a public service 
announcement.  Get that file!!!  (Not during working hours for CA, 
please.)

John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo at mitre.org


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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 19:05:47 +0100
From: vlsisj!fleurie!steve_t at uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com (Steven Tollefsrud)
Subject: reinheitsgebot


James Clark wrote:

>a friend of mine introduced me to anderson valley's oatmeal stout.  it was
>the most heavenly beer i had ever tasted (at the time).  i was so excited
>that i told a german friend of mine about it.  much to my surprise he went
>absolutely ape s%#t.  he told me that oatmeal had no place in beer and 
>that real beer only had malt, hops, water, blah, blah.
>i guess what i'm trying to say is that the rheinheitsgebot is not
>neccessarily a bad thing, but a lot of people take it way too seriously,
>and i have a hard time accepting this kind of extremist mentality.

James: it's R-E-I-N, as in P-U-R-E.
It was originaly enacted as one of the worlds first consumer protection
laws. When I lived in Munich, it was comforting to know that the beer
I was drinking in the beergardens was just that: PURE BEER, no chemicals
for head retention or color or flavor or preservation, no rice or corn
or beet sugar adjuncts, no fish gut finings, just good old fashioned beer.
This isn't "extremism", James, this is just how the Germans have always
defined the word beer: Hops, Barley Malt, and Water. No more, no less.
Instead of ignorantly dismissing them as "extremists", why not try to
appreciate that they are coming from a different culture, have been
accustomed to a different standard of quality, and maybe respect them
for being purists.

Steve Tollefsrud
Valbonne, France
e-mail: steve_t at fleurie.compass.fr

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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 12:23:59 +0800
From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: broasting

This is the best answer I've seen......... BJ


Broasting is a way of cooking chicken using a Broaster. My parents once
owned one of the first such machines in Southern California. While the
word seems to be a composite of "broiling" and "roasting," the Broaster
company's trademark product was a pressurized deep-fat fryer. It cooked
superb fried chicken in just six minutes, and far from making it more oily
the result was juicy and delicious precis=E5ly because the outside of each=
 piece
of chicken was seared instantly, sealing the juices in and the fat out.

The original process involved marinating the chicken overnight in a mixture
of herbs and spices that made the finished product completely wonderful,
but if you find someplace today offering Broasted chicken, the marinade has
likely been skipped or replaced by some alternative. The result is unlikely
to be up to the company's demonstration standards.

It is my understanding, incidently, that Popeye's uses a Broaster for its
chicken. This may not be true, and if Broasted chicken is chicken prepared
with the company's recipe and cooking process, the Popeye's people are
offering something different. Similarly, the Colonel may use pressuized
deep fat frying, but not a Broaster (tm), I'll wager. In any event, articles
on the Colonel's product indicate a very different overall procedure, one in

Bob Jones
bjones at novax.llnl.gov



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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 12:29:38 +0800
From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: 

cancel article 02281319.12475
Bob Jones
bjones at novax.llnl.gov



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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 13:59:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Kelly Doran <rrc!earth!kelly at uu.psi.com>
Subject: belgium malts/sugar


To those who are interested EVERGREEN BREWING SUPPLY is now 
carrying a wide variety of Belgium malts for $1.35 a pound.

They are also carrying the hard to find Belgian Candi Sugar.

There address is:

	Evergreen Brewing Supply
	12121 Northrup Way Suite 210
	Bellevue, WA 98005
	1-800-789-BREW or local 206-882-9929
	Fax: 206-881-3263

They will send a free catalog or do phone orders

Just thought some of you might be interested

				
				kld






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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 17:34:34 EST
From: fudgemstr at aol.com
Subject: Kegs, water pumps

Hello everyone, I am new at this but I think I got the hang of it.

My question deals with kegs.  The stainless kind that you can get from the
supermarket.

I am thinking of using them for a mash and a kettle.  I have already
purchased a King Cooker type thing so I am sure that I will have no problem
bringing 10-50 gals to a boil.  My question is this:

Do you really need to drill a hole in the bottom for a drain?  Can you put a
copper pipe with an elbow on the end down the side and pump the liquid out? 
If you have the containers on different levels then once you have the tube
primed, then gravity would take over, wouldn't it?  

Also, because I do not really want to go through the trouble of putting such
large containers on different levels, I am in search of a pump housing that I
can put on my drill that can pump the water, wort, sparge water, etc.
Unfortunately I cannot find one that can handle temperatures that high.  I
was thinking that I could probably rig up a water pump from a car engine to
my drill for that purpose.  They are cheap and usually made out of eight
plastic or metal, and can handle the temps.  Has anyone out there used this
sort of pump?  Do you all think that it would make my beer taste bad?  Would
it make my beer poison?  Are there any pumps that aren't too expensive that
can handle the temps?

Any help you all can give me would be great.

FUDGE

Fudgemstr at AOL.com


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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 94 19:18:57 EST
From: ac4ix at aol.com
Subject: Re: #1(2) Homebrew Digest #13...

SIGNOFF

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Date:         28 Feb 94 21:56:04 
From: bwchar at mail.wm.edu (Brett Charbeneau)
Subject:      Plastic tubing/boiling water - bad thing?

    I recently tried siphoning boiling water (while sparging) through
some plastic tubing I bought at my local harware store.  The stuff is
clear and is marked with a blue dot and the numbers '41111'.  After
using it with great success the tubing turned white and is very stiff
 - obviously there is a chemical reaction of some sort going on here.
    AM I POISONING MYSELF?  Can I drink the beer I made safely?
    If not, the temperature is slowly going to ruin the tubing, does
anybody know of a source of tubing that will WILL withstand the
temperature and is food grade?

    Brett Charbeneau
    Beer Geek Wannbie in Williamsburg, Virginia


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Date: 28 Feb 1994 13:04:13 PST
From: "CHARLOTT.KBARRY" <KBARRY at CHARLOTT.EPRI.COM>
Subject: KEG AS BOILING POT/TUN DESIGNS?

Microsoft Mail v3.0 IPM.Microsoft Mail.Note
From: BARRY, Ken F.
To:  'Mail Manager'
Subject:  KEG AS BOILING POT/TUN DESIGNS?
Date: 1994-02-28 16:06
Priority: R
Message ID: E858ED19
Conversation ID: E858ED19

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


>Date: 24 Feb 94 13:24:22 EST
>From: William A Kuhn <73472.1664 at CompuServe.COM>
>Subject: Re: KEG AS BOILING POT/TUN DESIGNS?

>Second,  we are considering using a stainless steel keg as boiling pot.
The
>keg (1/2 barrel) we have is the staight sided type, the questions are:
>       1. Where should we have the welder cut the keg (on the top on the
>    inside of the handles or on the side below the handles)?

The biggest issue on this decision is the style of false bottom you will be
using.  If you will be using a stainless steel screen that will bend then a
10"- 12" hole on the top is plenty wide enough for a rolled up screen to fit
through.  If you use a thicker perforated plate that will not bend and hence
is the width of the keg when it goes in you probably will have to cut off
the top at the skirt weld line.  Handles could then be welded on the side of
the keg.

I used the screens from the Brew Magic people (no affiliation, etc., etc.)
with a 10" hole on top, leaving the handles on.   I move the kegs around for
cleaning much more than I ever thought I would so I am glad I have the
handles.  While the screens are not sturdy as perforated plates I would do
it this way again.  I have no problem with the screens at the bottoms on the
lauter tun or the kettle  Make sure you have many pins welded around the
inside of the kegs to hold the screen up with a full load of grain..

>        2. To those who use a keg as a boiling pot- How do you conduct the
>    sparge?

I use a three keg system that is gravity fed.  I sparge from the hot liquor
tank by gravity feed.

>       2a. Is your keg configured as a mashing/lautering tun in one
>                 with a false bottom and spigot?

Yes.  The false bottom per 1 above.  The spigot is a stainless steel nipple
from McMaster-Carr (no affiliation, etc., etc.) with 1/2" NPT threads.  I
made sure that the nipple was welded to leave a 1" non-threaded stub on the
inside of the keg to allow me to attach things to it in case I screwed up on
the design.

Because of the way the lower skirt attaches to the keg I had my nipple
welded in just above the skirt weld line.  While this made the welding
easier, it leaves almost a gallon of liquid below.  During design I figured
that this would be a good place for trub to settle, and it is, but I pay for
5 gals and only get 4 gallons.  So for the next batch I will have a tube and
elbow from the nipple to the bottom of the keg to get that last gallon out.
This also applies to the mash tun.

One solution is to attach the spigot to the very bottom of the keg (per the
Brew Magic).  While this will eliminate the drain problem I am having, that
nipple would make it very hard to take the keg down for cleaning.  This also
would have prevented me from having a three keg gravity fed system under an
8' ceiling and still be high enough at the brew kettle to drain through a
counterflow into a cornelius keg.  This was one of my major design
considerations ("but dear, it will only be a small hole into the upstair's
bedroom") so the spigots had to come out the side.

>        3. How would you improve your design if you could do it again?

This line has only been running for two months so I'm still in the gee-whiz
stage.  I do plan to add a pump soon to give me more flexibility and a whole
bank of valves, pet-cocks and dedicated lines to my water supply to make
filling and cleaning easier.

I wanted to add a RIMS type system but this deviates from my wife's
philosophy of "do it for nothing" and I don't like the idea of electricity
around water or wort.  A friend had a good suggestion that I will be trying
this spring.  Have the pump take suction from the mash tun spigot and
discharge through an immersion chiller that is in the hot liquor tank and
finally into the top of the grain bed.  I have to heat water in the hot
liquor tank for the sparge anyway, why not stop at 153 degrees and use that
to hold the mash temp!  Then as you raise the hot liquor tank temperature to
the sparge temperature of 168 degrees, the mash will be at mash-out
temperature also.  Pretty slick and cheap.

>       4. What are the major cautions  you have for us (note: a
professional
>   welder will be doing the job for us)?

If your professionals use a plasma arc cutter to take of the top, use as low
a setting as possible.  I have some metal deposits blown through to the
inside bottom of the kegs that are tough to grind out.

>        5. What do you use for a lid to this kettle?

A 12" Wok cover from a china town in a city near you. (no affiliation, etc.,
etc.) They are cheap and the only place I have found that will sell a lid
without a bottom.

Good luck, I am available for any other questions by E-mail, hope this makes
sense without pictures.

Ken Barry (kbarry at charlott.epri.com)



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Date: Tue, 1 Mar 94 00:07 EST
From: Jack Skeels <0004310587 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Brewers Resource/BrewTek Where are you??

Hey fellow HB-Digesters!

I've been trying to reach the Brewer's Resource in Woodland Hills, CA without
success.  Does anyone know if they're out of business now.  I just got a catal
about 4 weeks ago, and can't figure out what happened.

Did they get hurt in the LA Quake?  They have new phone numbers, but nobody
answers.  I really wanted to get one of their yeast kits, pronto!

TIA, and I hope all is well for them (can they hear me?)

Jack Skeels
JSKEELS at MCIMAIL.COM

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Date: Tue, 1 Mar 94 6:40:18 EST
From: e583442 at nspp08.ci.in.ameritech.com (Gene Hegarty)
Subject: index



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Date:     Tue, 1 Mar 94 08:18 EST
From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:  My Pilsner

Well, my pilsner has been in the bottle a week, and I cracked one
today to see how things were.  Carbonation was really light, but I
expect it will go up in the next couple of days(I hope).

The beer tasted really bland, with almost no flavor at all.  Here's
the recipe:

3.3 lbs. Northwestern Gold Extract
4.0 lbs. Alexander's Pale Extract
2.0 oz Saaz plugs (60 minutes)
1.0 oz Saaz plugs (30 minutes)
1.5 oz. Saaz plugs (10 minutes)
0.5 oz. Saaz plugs (dry hop)

For bottling:
Isinglass finings
3/4 cup corn sugar.

At racking the beer was too sweet and Spencer Thomas talked me through
some calculations to show me that my IBUs were too low, so he
suggested 3/4 oz. Northern Brewers in a quart of water boiled for 1
hour added to the beer to increase bitterness.  Worked fine.

Specifics:

Fermented primary: 10 days
Fermented secondary: 5 days
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another question:

If hop utilization is so bad with extract boils of less than five
gallons, could I boil hops in, say 2 gallons of water, for an hour to
get maximum hop usage and then add the extract and boil for another
hour with my flavor and aroma hops added at the appropriate time?

Andy Pastuszak
Philadelphia, PA

INTERNET: GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU
BITNET:   GNT_TOX_ at ALLOY.BITNET


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Date: Tue, 01 Mar 1994 13:26:49 +0000 (GMT)
From: STAUFFER_ERIC_B at Lilly.com
Subject: HBD Reader

I have put together a "reader" for the Homebrew Digest. I posted a while back
on R.C.B for testers and a number of you replied. Although far from a
commercial app, it is pretty handy. It is a Windows app (sorry all you unix
heads) and should run under NT as well. Basically you create a subdirectory
called HBDARCH and put all of the HBD text files in it. The program displays a
list of the HBDs it find in a list box. When you click on one of the entries a
list of the topics appear. Click on a topic and the text appears. I grew tired
of having to search through the entire file to find the topics that interested
me. Anyway, if you want a copy send me a note (ebs at lilly.com). If you think
it's any good I'll see if I could post it on SIERRA.

Cheers,
  Eric


Eric B. Stauffer
Clinical Research Information Analyst (and homebrewer)
Eli Lilly and Company
Indianapolis, IN 46285



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Date: Tue, 01 Mar 94 09:00:41 EST
From: greenbay at vnet.IBM.COM
Subject: (S) 5 Liter Kegs                             IBM Confidential

From: Bob Crowley, Electrical Engineer   (507)-253-4570   T/L 553-4570
2G1/114-2  F303 Rochester, MN                    greenbay at vnet.ibm.com
IBM Storage Systems Division                         RCHVMP3(GREENBAY)
Subject: (S) 5 Liter Kegs                             IBM Confidential

Does anybody have any experience with those little five liter
keg/kegging systems? The local homebrew store has them it with CO2 taps
and they are looking reaaaaaaaal good. Anybody used these?

Thanks,
Bob
greenbay at vnet.ibm.com

* Bob Crowley                   NFC Wildcard Playoffs - 1/8/94
* Electrical Engineer        Green Bay Packers vs. Detroit Lions
* HDS Electrical IV                   Packers Win, 28-24
*--------> George Teague - 101yd INT for a TD, NFL Post Season Record

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Date: Tue, 01 Mar 94 09:19:43 EST
From: btalk at aol.com
Subject: acid wash pH

During a recent trip to STOUDT'S  brewery in Adamstown, Pa, the brewer said
that they acid wash their yeast (harvested from the fermenter bottoms) if
they suspect something isn't quite right. My memory is a little hazy but I
believe he said they used Phosphoric acid, and got it down to pH of 2.4-3.0.
Then pitched the whole works!
Any other experience/feedback ?
Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY
does my last name qualify as an extended sig ? ;) 

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Date: Tue, 1 Mar 1994 09:22:00 EST
From: "Pamela J. Day 7560" <DAY at A1.TCH.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Attn: Jim McNutt

	Sorry about using space for this here, but attemps at sending
direct e-mail kept bouncing.
	Jim, I have some info for you, please e-mail me with a different
address, the one I got from your request doesn't work.

Pam

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Date: 1 Mar 1994 10:13:03 -0500
From: "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel_F_McConnell at mailgw.surg.med.umich.edu>
Subject: hydrometers out-of-wack

Subject:  hydrometers out-of-wack

From: mikesher at acs.bu.edu (Michael Sheridan) who writes:

 .....snip, snip.......

>O.G. was 1.042  (may be a bit low, I later discovered that our water is
0.990!)
>F.G.  was 1.010, bottled 34 days after pitching

You better check that hydrometer!  I have found that some of them are 
VERY innacurate.  Yours clearly must be unless you measured your water 
at a high temperature. 

I was brewing with a friend a few years ago and when we measured the
OG (something that I rarely did), he refused to believe the data.  He had 
his son deliver HIS hydrometer and lo and behold mine was way off.  To 
the trash heap.  I finally got around to buying a new one, but not after 
checking those that were available with ddH2O and a sucrose solution.  
Some were off as much as 0.010!  

BTW I have found the same to be true of most of the cheap-o thermometers.

The bottom line.....Go to a reputable supplier that will let you play before 
you pay.  Take a handfull of thermometers or hydrometers, look at the 
temperature or specific gravity and discard the ones that are out of line.  
Or better yet take a calibration solution to the shop make sure that the 
hydrometer that you buy is accurate.

DanMcC






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Date: Tue, 01 Mar 94 08:59:25 -0700
From: Steve Dempsey <steved at longs.lance.colostate.edu>
Subject: Re: iodophor as starch indicator


Bob Jones asks:

> I recently noticed a blue stain in one of the buckets I use to hold cracked
> grain. The bucket had just had some iodaphor in it. It occurred to me that
> iodaphor would probably work very well as a starch indicator. Has anyone
> tried it?

Tried it.  Doesn't work.  Sure, it eventually turns black after 10 minutes
or so.  But you want a quick reaction to determine mash conversion.  Stick
with the ordinary iodine from the drug store.

================================    Engineering Network Services
Steve Dempsey                       Colorado State University
steved at longs.lance.colostate.edu    Fort Collins, CO  80523
================================    +1 303 491 0630

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Date: Tue, 1 Mar 94 10:08:06 CST
From: chips at coleslaw.me.utexas.edu (Chris Pencis)
Subject: ANONYMOUS FTP HELP - GET IT HERE

I was going to post here, but hey, I'll sacrifice. For those of you
who are net-surf novices, I can direct you to two text files to be of
asssistance to your quest for info (from sierra.stanford.edu), one is
Zen and the Art of the Internet, and the other is a surfing guide. 
EMAIL me at the address below and I'll forward them to you.  If this
gets rediculous, I'll post how to get them yourself.
Happy Texas Independance Day.				Chris

|Chris Pencis-chips at coleslaw.me.utexas.edu-Blue Devil Transplant|
|University of Texas at Austin-Robotics Research Group-Go DUKE!	|

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Date: 1 Mar 94 16:26:31 GMT
From: cssc!cong at scuzzy.attmail.com
Subject: Brunswick Brew Club Road Trip

                    ATTENTION NEW JERSEY HOME BREWER'S!!!
     ANNOUNCING THE FIRST BRUNSWICK BREW CLUB ROAD TRIP to STOUDT'S BREWERY
                              Saturday March 26
Stoudt's breweries in Adamstown Pennsylvania is the final destination of
the First Brunswick Brew Club Road Trip.  A Sign up sheet for this 
Bus Trip will go up in Brunswick Brewing Supply.  A deposit of $20.00 
will be required at time of signup. Roundtrip Custom Coach transportation 
will be provided.  Stoudts will be providing a tour of their brewing facilities,
a German Style luncheon and Stoudts Beer Tasting.  All this for a total cost 
of $35.00.  Bus Leaves at 10:00 AM. Hope To See You There. For more information
call 908-572-5353 or stop by the shop at 727 Raritan Ave (Rt 27) Highland Park.
The next meeting of the Brunswick Brew Club will be Thursday March 24.


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Date:          Tue, 1 Mar 1994 12:17:57 EST5EDT
From: REGINAH at SOCIOLOGY.Lan.McGill.CA
Subject:       maple syrup fermentability

I am planning to brew an extract beer using maple syrup.  Does anyone 
know how fermentable maple syrup (not sap) is?  Will I have any 
leftover sweetness, or will it ferment completely? Any recipes would 
also be appreciated, although I ask this question because I'm trying 
to make up my own.  TIA
**********************************************************************
*                                                                    *
*   Regina Harrison                        `A thing can be true and  *
*   Dept. of Anthropology                   still be desparate       *
*   McGill University                       folly, Hazel.'           *
*   Montreal, Quebec, Canada                            --Fiver      *
*   reginah at sociology.lan.mcgill.ca                                  *
*                                                                    *
**********************************************************************
    

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Date: Tue, 1 Mar 1994 09:51:39 -0800
From: sekearns at ucdavis.edu
Subject: kegging?


	Is kegging worth the investment?  I have great success with 
	bottling however I am little curious. Any comments on
	CO2 kegging and/or party pig, or other methods I would
	appreciate. 
	
	Thanks in advanced.

Matt Rademacher
sekearns at ucdavis.edu

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Date: 1 Mar 94 18:03:07 GMT
From: GANDE at slims.attmail.com
Subject: Canada Malting Data Sheet


For anyone interested, heres the most recent numbers for Canada
Malting products. Canada Malting also own Great Western, so I assume
that these numbers are accurate for their products as well.

Index
- ------

A) Moisture, expressed in percent.
B) Extraction Fine Crush, expressed in percent.
C) Extraction Coarse Crush, expressed in percent.
D) Fine/Coarse Differential, percent weighted with moisture removed.
E) Color, expressed in Degrees Lovibond.
F) Diastatic Power, expressed in Diastatic Units.
G) Alpha Amalyse, percent based in 20 Degree salt solution.
H) Malt Proteins, expressed in percent.
I) Wort Proteins, expressed in percent.
J) Soluable/Total Proteins, expressed in percent.
K) Free Amino Nitrogen, expressed in percent.


              A   B    C    D    E   F   G     H    I    J    K
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
2 Row Malt  |3.9|80.5|79.3|1.4|1.72|117|48.5|10.82|4.92|45.5|196
6 Row Malt  |3.6|75.4|74.0|1.4|1.90|143|48.5|12.69|4.96|39.1|162
Carastan    |5.9|73.1| -  | - |38.9| - | -  |  -  | -  |  - | -
Light C'stan|8.0|70.2| -  | - |18.8| - | -  |  -  | -  |  - | -
Crystal     |5.2|72.1| -  | - |80.5| - | -  |  -  | -  |  - | -
Chocolate   |2.3|70.6| -  | - |460 | - | -  |  -  | -  |  - | -
Black Malt  |2.5|67.5| -  | - |550 | - | -  |  -  | -  |  - | -
Black Barley|2.4|69.5| -  | - |532 | - | -  |  -  | -  |  - | -
Munich      |3.4|78.6| -  | - |4.10| - | -  | 9.44|3.94|41.7| -
Wheat Malt  |4.0|83.6|82.8|0.9|2.10|160|49.6|10.85|5.73|53.0| -


 ....Glenn
+----------------------------------+-----------------+
| Internet: gande at slims.attmail.com| "640K ought to  |
| Glenn Anderson                   |  be enough for  |
| Manager, Telecom. Facilities     |  anybody."      |
| Sun Life of Canada               |-Bill Gates, 1981|
+----------------------------------+-----------------+














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Date: Tue, 1 Mar 94 13:21:55 EST
From: sdlsb::73410 at sdlcc (Carl Howes)
Subject: cooler tun ?

As I begin an equipment buildup to switch to all-grain, mash/lauter tun
design comes to the fore as a very ambiguous area.  So, at risk of swamping
my local gateway, I am looking to the collective wisdom of the HBD for
design advice.  I am especially interested in the pros/cons of the various
designs.  So far I'm leaning towards a Gott type mash/lauter tun but nothing
is cast in concrete yet.  Private e-mail please, and note that I have *NO*
access to the archives at sierra (not even e-mail!).  TIA.

Carl
73410 at sdlcc.msd.ray.com


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1362, 03/02/94