HOMEBREW Digest #1378 Tue 22 March 1994

Digest #1377 Digest #1379

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Homebrew into Sankey ("Real") Kegs... (Wayde Nie)
  Hop Rhizomes (John Farver)
  Hombrew Digest Utility Program (chris kayes)
  Brewing Pot (bmfogarty)
  RE: Jim Busch on Bpubs (John Oberpriller)
  NDN:Homebrew Digest #1377 (March 21, 1994) (network_manager)
  Dishwasher sanitizing, H2S (Bill Sutton)
  New Wyeast range (allison shorten)
  Re-Pitching Yeast (John D. Pavao)
  Where to plant hops (Jim Grady)
  Hop Utilization (Doug Lukasik)
  Canning Wort/Eggwhites/DME Priming/fruit-in-beer (Steven Tollefsrud)
  First MASH / LAGER (Gregg Tennefoss)
  ...no subject... (DJM1)
  re: animals & beer (Jim Sims)
  Re: Big brewing (Jim Busch)
  Re: specialty grain mashing (TODD CARLSON)
  Re: Kegging (Dion Hollenbeck)
  chill theory (RONALD DWELLE)
  Homemade burners, and a few other things... (Steve Kenshalo)
  Slamming? Not/Scotch Ale IBUs/new digest? (npyle)
  Utilization/Broken bottles (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Re: Call for Judges, AHA NHC Denver (Steve Dempsey)
  blue ice/yeast freezing (Jeremy Ballard Bergsman)
  Pike Place Pale Ale (GANDE)
  Hop Utilization/Wort Chilling (Jack Skeels)
  Brit. Beerfest ("Stephen Schember")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 15:30:14 -0500 (EST) From: Wayde Nie <niew at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca> Subject: Homebrew into Sankey ("Real") Kegs... Hi all, Eugene Sonn asked about putting Homebrew into Sankey kegs. This is the type of keg setup that my brew-partner and I have put together. We decided on this because it is convenient if (in a moment of weakness) we wanted to dispense a commercial brew. Also, with a small modification this same equipment can be used to fill a keg (or 20L cylinder as we usually use) without removing the keg valve. A Sankey keg uses the same connection point to both supply CO2 and provide beer. The CO2 port inserts CO2 from the top of the keg and the beer out port is connected to a pipe leading down to the bottom of the keg. The Sankey lock that connects to the keg has a CO2 in line that usually connects off the side of the lock and a beer out line that connects to the top. This beer out line has a "pea type" backflow valve to stop any beer from draining back into the keg. This describes a CO2 setup, I'm sure a air pump setup is similar. The only modification needed is to remove the backflow valve from your Sankey lock/air pump. Then to clean your keg you can slide a standard "bottle jet" washer into the beer out port. The jet of water will spray through the beer pipe to the bottom of the keg and drain out of the CO2 port. Use you favourite sanitizer and when you are finished purge the keg with CO2 through the beer out port to push any air out the CO2 port. To fill the keg start your siphon and drain into the beer out port of the Sankey. This method delivers the beer to the bottom of the keg so it avoids aeration. As the keg fills the excess CO2 will be pushed out of the open CO2 port. Then put your Sankey lock/air pump back together and use it to pressurise and carbonate the keg of homebrew. I hope this system works out for you. We've found it to be simple and effective with no need to fiddle with the keg valves. If you need any more info feel free to contact me through EMail. Wayde Nie NIEW at McMail.CIS.McMaster.CA Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 13:27:29 -0800 From: John Farver <bruticus at hebron.connected.com> Subject: Hop Rhizomes Rhizomes are currently available at Evergreen Brewing Supply (Bellvue, Wa) Larry's Homebrew Warehouse (Kent, Wa) and Brewers Warehouse (Seattle, Wa) Zymurgy has the address and ph# of these. Also saw a ? about grassy smelling hops, could be first year hops, alpha would be low and would not mask the smell of green. Question on hop plugs- They will expand slowly when put in boiling wort, there is no need to break them up first for boiling. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 17:27:55 -0500 (EST) From: chris kayes <ckayes at world.std.com> Subject: Hombrew Digest Utility Program Attached is a MIME formatted IBM PC file - HBDATE.ZIP. This contains the C source and executable for a program which sets the date of the HB Digest file to the date of submission. I was getting pretty tired of the way UN*IX utilities, like UNCOMPRESS, treat file dates (ignore them), so I wrote this program. Just UNCOMPRESS the HBD .Z file(s), run HBDATE (it takes wildcard filenames) and set the date of the HBD file to the date it was submitted. Sorry if this takes up space, but this is the '90's. Get U're viewers. Also, if anyone wants some fresh VERMONT Maple SAP, (that's SAP, not syrple) please e-mail me. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 03:07:16 EST From: bmfogarty at aol.com Subject: Brewing Pot I would appreciate the benefit of your collected knowledge. I have been brewing now for about three months - in a borrowed 32quart porcelain covered canning pot. I would like to "graduate" to a Stainless Steel pot, but do not have lots of money to throw into a pot. Where can I get a restaurant grade, eight gallon pot with a lid at the most reasonable price? I certainly would appreciate any information available and thank you in advance for your help. To save bandwidth, you might just email me at bmfogarty at aol.com. Thanks again Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 10:16:38 MET From: John Oberpriller <s12int::l375bbk at god.bel.alcatel.be> Subject: RE: Jim Busch on Bpubs Jim Busch writes in response to my post concerning starting a brewpub on the cheap. RE: brewpubs >> Sprecher Brewery, Milwaukee, WI - This is a microbrewery, not a brewpub. It >> was started with approx. $10,000 using mostly converted dairy equipment. > You get what you pay for. Ever check the shelf life of a Sprecher product?? > Next time your in DC, get one at the Brickseller. Was I talking about Sprecher's shelf life or how they got started on the cheap about 10 years ago?? The point is that equipment normally used for one purpose, *might* be usable in brewing. A good portion of HBD is dedicated to creating or converting equipment for brewing. Can you think of any brewing uses for a stainless steel temperature controlled milk storage tank, Jim? I also disagree with the idea that "you get what you pay for." I have been in many BIG BUCKS brewpubs that brew pond scum. Big bucks does not guaranty good beer. I think IMHO that good beer can be brewed with a more modest investment. Don't get me wrong, you need good equipment. But it's possible with a little creativity to cut your startup costs. I was simply trying to help someone who might not have 500K of spare pocket change. Good Luck Brewpub Entrepreneurs! John *======================================================* * internet: l375bbk%s12int.dnet at alcbel.be * *======================================================* Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 01:14:46 PDT From: network_manager at aldus.com Subject: NDN:Homebrew Digest #1377 (March 21, 1994) Your mail to the Microsoft Mail Server could not be fully delivered! Reasons listed below! It has been deleted. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 5:53:11 EST From: Bill Sutton <wrs at hpuerca.atl.hp.com> Subject: Dishwasher sanitizing, H2S And for my first post to hbd (besides an accidental subscribe request...) DISHWASHER SANITIZING It seems to me that the active ingredient in most dishwasher detergents is Sodium Carbonate (washing soda). This is also the active ingredient in B-BRITE. This seems to mean that there would be no need for additional sanitizers (like chlorine bleach) as long as the concentration of Sodium Carbonate is high enough. Does anyone have any ideas as to the concentration available from dishwasher soap? I know I don't get any bacterial uglies in my dishes, but then I don't store bacterial feasts on them for months, either... Hydrogen Sulfide I just finished racking a batch of pale extract/honey brew to secondary. It was fermented with the "new" (to our area, anyway) Glenbrew "secret brewers" dry yeast. I rehydrated it in 2 cups of wort from the batch (i.e. after boiling) and pitched it after it had started to form a krausen on the starter. The "problem" (if in fact there really is one) is that on the second day of fermentation a horrible odor of H2S invaded my fermenting room. This had disipated by the time I racked (though there was still a faint odor of it clinging to the brew). Interestingly, there wasn't the ring of dried and nasty krausen residue around the rim of my fermenter like I've gotten in the past. I am aware that a small amount of H2S is considered normal and that CO2 will "scrub it out" to a certain extent. I don't think I had any autolysis in 3 days. My guess is that since there was a krausen on the "starter" the yeast was producing a "typical" H2S odor. I was also thinking that the "resorption" of the krausen residue might also have something to do with it. I'm not worrying, mind you (the taste at racking time makes me think this has potential), just thought I'd see if anybody had any ideas. Ob HBD-bandwith-comment :-) I was worried for a while, what with flamewars on the proper spelling of bogeyman and the like, but I am now enjoying the discussions of hop utilization, em vs. fb vs. cm, and such. I think a balance between recipes, help for new/old brewers, and good old technical free-for-alls keeps everyone interested. Bill Sutton wrs at atl.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 21:40:16 +1000 (EST) From: allison shorten <shorten at zeus.usq.edu.au> Subject: New Wyeast range I have recently regained access to the HBD after a hiatus of about 9 months. I have been interested to read fragments about a new range of Wyeast yeasts. We have been getting the old range down here in Australia for a couple of years now, but I havent seen or heard anything about a new range at all from local sources. In fact, I helped a mate brew a batch just a couple of weeks ago, and he had mail-ordered a Wyeast from Melbourne specially for the occasion. It was the old style 1056 American ale, complete with inner pouch and all Consequently, and since I never use anything else these days, I would really appreciate any information and details on this new range. Thanks Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 07:01:52 EST From: pavao at npt.nuwc.navy.mil (John D. Pavao) Subject: Re-Pitching Yeast Hello, I have recently started using liquid yeast and I'm wondering how many times it is safe to pitch the yeast slurry from one batch into another. My practice has been to sanitize a bottle and pour about eight ounces of the slurry into it. I then cap the bottle and store it in the refrigerator until I brew the next batch. On the day that I use the yeast, I let it warm up to room temperature before pitching. Any responses will be appreciated. John pavao at ptsws1.npt.nuwc.navy.mil Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 7:24:19 EST From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com> Subject: Where to plant hops Last year, my wife and I bought some raspberry plants from Miller Nurseries in Canandaigua, NY. They sent along a fact sheet from the Univ. of Massachusetts that has some info that may be of interest to hop growers: Sites for raspberries should be free from perennial weeds, have good air drainage (preferably a hillside), and have adequate moisture. [sound familiar? JMG] To avoid problems with verticillium wilt, do not plant raspberries where potatoes, tomatoes, peppers (solanaceous crops), or strawberries have been grown. According to Beach in "Homegrown Hops," hops are susceptible to verticillium wilt so I was wondering if this advice would apply to hops as well. I was thinking of planting hops this summer (and my boys have just planted some tomato and pepper seeds indoors) so I would like to hear if anyone has any first hand experience. If not, I think I will apply the raspberry advice to my hops! With hops and raspberries, our yard may get a 4-star rating in the Japanese beetle touring guide. - -- Jim Grady grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 07:27:57 -0500 (EST) From: Doug Lukasik <LUKASIK_D at sunybroome.edu> Subject: Hop Utilization In HBD 1377 Keith MacNeal writes: >...the extract brewer is most certainly watering the wort down *after* >fermentation. Not to argue with you Keith but I don't beleive this to be the case. Most extract brewers are boiling anywhere between 3 and 10 lbs of extract in 1.5 to 3 gallons of water. They are then diluting the resulting wort in the primary to bring total volume up to 5 - 5.5 gallons. This is done prior to pitching the yeast so they are definately not watering the wort down after fermentation. This would be an interesting thing to try. Has anyone ever tried fermenting wort from an extract boil before increasing the volume? Are there yeasts out there that would live in this sort of environment? On to another issue on hops utilization.... I recently switched from all extract to partial mashs and have increased my boil from the standard 2 gallons to the 3 - 3 1/2 gallon range. Although my OG's seem to have fallen a little I am finding that I *do not* get the same utilization and in fact it seems to have fallen. Any explaination for this? Of course this is finding is based solely on tasting the resulting brews (several have been repeats of extract brews and the hops have remained the same>. BTW I have been following Mark's formulas with a lot of good results. TIA Doug. <lukasik_d at sunybroome.edu> Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 12:01:31 +0100 From: steve_t at fleurie.inria.fr (Steven Tollefsrud) Subject: Canning Wort/Eggwhites/DME Priming/fruit-in-beer From: Eric Wade... >...is wort acidic enough to keep botulism at bay without pressure >canning? I'm no food science expert but if wort were acidic enough to keep wild nasties (yeasts, bacteria) at bay, wouldn't it also keep the cultured, domesticated sort at bay, too? Alternatively, if wort were ideally suited for cultured yeast to thrive in, why wouldn't it be just as well suited for the nasties to survive in too? There was a similar thread to this a couple of years ago on HBD and it was established that Botulin produced toxins will remain in the wort even if the wort is boiled, so don't count on high temps to make it safe if it has been infected. It seems to me that it would be safer to not count on acidity to keep your canned wort Botulism free, and use pressure canning. From: aaron.banerjee at his.com >Say, has anyone ever tried clairifying wine with egg whites? I toured several wineries in Bordeaux last summer and saw this in practice. Most Bordeaux wines are clarified this way, using egg whites whipped up into a marengue-like lather and added to the oak barrels that the wine is aged in for a couple of years. It made me curious why this wasn't practiced in the beer industry. My guess is the gas in the beer would make a tremendous mess of the egg whites. From: katanka at aol.com >Re:Dry Malt Priming...The resultant carbonation seems much better >(as well as head retention(?!?)) you can adjust the amount as needed, >but keep the 2 to 1 ratio. I switched to DME priming last year and will never go back to sugar. Table sugar will leave a cidery bite to your beer, while corn sugar doesn't. Priming with DME definitely gives a sturdier head and more body, and you can proudly claim that you have an "all malt" beer. Because of the difference in molecular structure, you will need to use 2 times as much DME as you would sugar. If you use 3/4 cups of sugar, use 1.5 cups DME, or enough to raise the SG by 5 degrees or less, depending on the beer style. Boiling the the DME in a couple of cups of water will ensure that the DME is evenly distributed (no globs of DME on the bottom), and kills nasties. I once primed without mixing with water first and my beer reacted to the crystals by violently foaming over. I tried closing the priming container (a cornelius keg) but the restricted exit turned it into a beer jet, spraying about 3 gallons over the kitchen ceiling, walls, and me. (my wife was not impressed). From: Christopher Alan Strickland >Just wanted some opinions. I made the blackberry stout with 60 oz >of frozen blackberries. My OG was 1.061, after 3 days I racked with >an SG of 1.027. After 5 days the SG was still 1.027 so I bottled. >It's 12 days latter and the beer tastes a little sour (not going >bad sour, just sour). I experimented with adding fruit (raspberries) to ale and discovered the effects of CO2 scrubbing the hard way. Adding the fruit to the wort at the beginning of the ferment caused most of the fruit essences to disappear with the CO2 and left a tangy ale with only a memory of the 5lbs of raspberries and a reddish color. Just like with dry-hopping, adding fruit after the most active ferment leaves most of the essences in the beer and, because of the yeast attenuation when the alcohol is higher, there is more residual sugar from the fruit. BTW, this is how the Belgians do it with Kriek Lambics: the cherries are added to the aging barrels AFTER the beer is fermented. Steve Tollefsrud Valbonne, France e-mail: steve_t at fleurie.compass.fr Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 08:15:02 -0500 (EST) From: greggt at infi.net (Gregg Tennefoss) Subject: First MASH / LAGER Greetings all !! There has been some discussion on diving into all grain for the first time. All I can say is DO IT. I racked my first all grain to secondary today and I thought my experiences may help others take the plunge. First, I've been told you should never go to all grain until you master extracts and can replicate batches. As I do this for fun and I'm not AB, I really have never tried to make the exact same brew twice - the fun is in variety. Am I a master at extracts - NO No no - how do you spell Zyamogy. This is how it went: I made 1000ml of starter with wyeast chechpilsner (spelling?). I new it was going to be a great batch because my stopped got stuck in the flask and I cracked the flask getting it out. I transfered the go juice to a new flask and somehow avoided major nastie contamination. I pulled out my trusty 5 gal porcelin (yes 5 gallon) brew pot, splashed in a couple gallons of Chesapeakes finest pipe rotting tap water, a pinch of gypsum, and happily tossed in 10lbs of my selected grains. Beware the dust cloud. I fired up the stove (gas) and stirred my coldren of mush up to the protein rest. I lit the fires again to get to conversion temp and stired frequently to avoid scorching. The mush appeared a little thick, so I dumped in another gallon of h2o and let it do it's thing. I added heat one more time to 170 and ladled the sludge into my gott cooler. (A $1 cheap plastic collander trimmed to fit made a great false bottom.) I drained out and recirculated about a gallon of wort to set the filter bed. I then drained most of the liquid from the tun back into the brew pot. I alternatly added 170 degree water an inch or two above the grain and drained it off into the brewpot until my 5 gallon pot was full and another gallon pot was also full. I then happily boiled, hopped, and cooled as usual. The gravity ended up at 1.040 - a little low for ten pounds of gain but who cares. Then it happened - I tasted the Wort. It actually tasted better than some finished beers I have tasted. Saying that I was psyched would have been an under statement. As this is a lager (my first attempt here too) it will take a while for me to experience the full fruits of my labor but if the tastes at primary and secondary are any indication, I don't expect this batch to have to sit around in the bottles too long. Yes I did relax and have several homebrews. Yes it did take about five hours - Boy did time fly. One warning !!! As I finished up about 2:30am, I did not feel like hauling the spent grains outside. I decided that my 1.5hp garbage grinder could handle the job for me. It did - the plumming did not. It actually clogged a three inch line. Climbing under a house at 3:00 in the morning is not the model method of RHAHB. Cheers and get "grainin" Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 5:21:28 PST From: DJM1%CRPTech%DCPP at bangate.pge.com Subject: ...no subject... Sean Rooney said: >I'm considering buying a Party Pig (Plastic keg with an expanding bag to >fill deadspace) and a Carbonator (quick release fitting for 2L pop >bottles). Does anybody have any experience with these products? I have been using the Carbonator for a few months now, IT'S GREAT! My friends love it also, as they now don't have to come to my house to try the ol' Homebrew.....I have not had any problems with it. You have to transfer your beer over a few days earlier than you want to take it somewhere to allow force carbonation. I just wish I came up with the idea myself! I also have a Party Pig that I haven't had a chance to use yet....I just always put all the beer into one of my kegs. I think that it would be ideal for a Barleywine, or some other small batch. Standard Disclaimer: I don't have nothin' to do with any of the above mentioned products, I just wish I did............ Daniel Meaney DJM1 at PGE.COM Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 08:37:16 EST From: sims at scra.org (Jim Sims) Subject: re: animals & beer >>Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 10:34:29 EST >>From: AYLSWRTH at MANVM2.VNET.IBM.COM >>Subject: re:Animal products??? >> >> As I have pointed out in alt.beer, the real problem here is that it >> is difficult for people to find out whether their favorite beer(s) >> use animal products. Breweries do not have to list any ingredients, >> and even if they did, it is unclear whether the FDA would count a >> clarifying agent as an "ingredient" anyway. actually, it is *absolutely* clear to anyone who does this commerically just what the rules are: You *must* apply to the BATF folks for a label approval for each alcohol-containing prodcut you produce. Ask Grants's what happens if you make any mistakes. The label is tied to a specific RECIPE. You must list all the ingredients used, and a basic cookbook-type approach to what you do to the ingredients. According to the "expert" for labeling that I asked, there are numerous approved clarifiers, and they (nor anything else "not remaining in the final product" need NOT be listed on the label. jim Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 10:09:55 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com> Subject: Re: Big brewing Norm writes: > Subject: Mega brewing/Specialty Grains/Eis > > Jeff Franes writes about industrial brewers: > Jeff was discussing hop utilization, but I'd like to diverge a bit. Assuming > the large brewers brew high gravity worts, and dilute *after* fermentation, > try to follow this. They must use a relatively large amount of grain to > create these high gravity worts, which means they have relatively large > mash/lauter tuns. Then they must boil down this relatively large volume of > water, which means they have relatively large boilers. They then ferment > this concentrated wort in relatively small fermenters. THis is where the assumptions fail. I would presume that they actually use enormous fermenters, which hold the results of 4 mash cycles. For bigger breweries, it is quite common to brew several times to fill one fermenter. Best, Jim Busch Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 10:43:09 EST From: carlsont at GVSU.EDU (TODD CARLSON) Subject: Re: specialty grain mashing Mike asked about his Papazian pale ale problem ("sediment of some kind"). This sound like the same problem I had with this recipe which I attributed to starch in the unmashed toasted barley (this was an all extract recipe). This relates to the recent discussion on which specialy grains should or should not be mashed. Is Papazian wrong (gasp) in using unmashed toasted malt? There are a lot of different malts out there that I would like to experiment with but I am not sure how to use them and have had difficulty finding information about them. So could we compile a list? Vote must mash should mash shouldn't mash don't mash doesn't matter on crystal malt dextrine (carapils) malt belgian aromatic malt (what is this?) special B malt buiscit malt victory malt (same as toasted malt?) roasted malt raosted barley black malt chocolate malt vienna malt munich malt other also for the mashing grains, do they provide enzymes? PS - I figured out BTW and IMHO, but what is RIMS? PSS - What's an easymasher (TM)? todd carlsont at gvsu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 07:35:00 PST From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: Re: Kegging >>>>> "Jonathan" == Jonathan Peakall <belew at netcom.com> writes: Jonathan> I read the excellent article on kegging in the archives at Jonathan> Stanford, but still have a few questions. Jonathan> First, does anyone know a good place to purchase fittings Jonathan> and so on for the kegs in the San Francisco Bay Area? What Jonathan> about places to test and fill your co2 tanks? Can anyone Jonathan> tell me the name of a good book on kegging, or direct me to Jonathan> a good source of materials? Best source is mail order. If you find any local homebrew store carrying fittings, you will find they are about 25% or more higher than mail order. Good mail order sources are Keg Parts: BrauKunst 1-800-972-2728 Foxx Equipment Co. (800) 821-2254 Taps, beer fridges, bar supplies: Superior Products 800-328-9800 If you have any more detailed questions, ask away, either through HBD, or directly. I am editing the kegging FAQ and until it is out, it is my duty to extract all info from the materials to answer people's questions. That will also give me an incentive to get it done. B-} dion Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814 Email: hollen at megatek.com Staff Software Engineer Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 11:45:54 EST From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE) Subject: chill theory Let's talk chiller theory. Now, after the boil, I chill by dunking my boil pot in a sink filled with ice-water. Why? Because Charlie told me to. It does speed up the cooling, but does it do anything else? Does my beer like it better? Or, to put it another way, Charlie also says I should probably have a wort-chiller for all-grain "advanced" brewing (but doesn't explain why). So I'm thinking about making one. But I'd like to know why before investing the time and money. In fact, I'm wondering why I shouldn't just run the boiling wort directly to my plastic fermenter and skip the ice-water dunk. I can do it without splashing or at least a minimum of aeration and also with a minimum chance of polluting the wort with some bad bugs. For cooling, I can let it sit overnight, sealed up in the fermenter (which is what I often do anyway). What, if anything, am I losing (besides time, which is not a major concern, as long as my supply is a couple cases ahead of demand)? I can understand why the breweries chill rapidly--not wanting to occupy their equipment longer than necessary. Are we homebrewers just slavishly imitating the commercials? (If chiller theory is covered in some book somewhere, please steer me toward it.) Cheers, Ron Dwelle (dweller at gvsu.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 09:14:28 PST From: steve_kenshulo at csufresno.edu (Steve Kenshalo) Subject: Homemade burners, and a few other things... Fellow Brewers: As the first step in the construction of my all-grain brewing setup, I have removed the burner from an old hot-water heater. After brushing up on my welding skills, I mounted it in a frame about four inches below the top of the frame. Although the hot water heater was rated for natural gas, I brazed a piece of 1/4" pipe to the tube leading to the burner. To this pipe I connected a piece of shop air hose (The type you might use to connect a compressed air tool to the shop air), to a fitting that screws into a 20 pound propane tank. The is no pressure regulator involved, other than a dedicate hand on the tank-mounted valve. I was surprised how well it worked. Although very sensitive, the tank-mounted valve works fine for regulating gas flow to the burner. The air hose does not seem to get hot at all. The tube leading to the burner is long enough to place the air hose a safe distance away from the hot zone. The flame seems to burn well on propane. I thought I would have to drill out the air holes in order to get good combustion. The flame, when burning at the hottest temp I feel safe with, is 4 to 5 inches long, with about equal parts blue and orange flame. The pot has just a little bit of soot on it, but not enough to worry about. Could this thing benefit from enlarging the air holes below the burner? I think the rule is propane requires twice as much air than natural gas. The current holes are about 1/2 in diameter. That means the new holes should be twice the area. The current area, .5*3.14 is 1.57. Of course double that is 3.14. Since 1*3.14=3.14 the new holes should be 1" in diameter. Is this right? It seems way too simple. It also seems way too big. I would think a 1" hole would flow a lot more that twice the air of a 1/2" hole. Doesn't matter, however, because the is not enough metal in the frame to allow 1" holes anyway. (There are four 1/2" holes around the base of the burner.) For a kettle, I cut the top off of a SS (Stainless Steel) keg with a jig saw. The keg was mush easier to cut than I thought. On the side of the kettle, as close to the bottom as possible, I TIG welded a piece of SS pipe. This was the first time I had used a TIG welder, and it was a difficult weld. The pipe was much thicker than the walls of the keg. Not to mention I kept touching the tungsten to the part while I was welding. I even got a healthy jolt when I touched the welding rod to the electrode. I was wearing no gloves, and the shock went right through my chest. Ouch! Next time I would just silver solder a piece of brass pipe to the keg. I have used this setup twice. It works quite well. The first time I used it, I had no lid, and the boil was not as vigorous as I would have liked. The second time, I used the cover from an old AT clone as a lid, and it boiled over 5 gallons in 35-40 minutes. I was planning on making a tight fitting lid for the kettle, but I decided a flat piece of metal would work better. If I cut a dome shaped piece of sheet aluminum, I can slide it back and fourth across the top of the kettle (to change the size of the vent) during boiling. All of this gave me a fairly bitchin' setup with almost no cash outlay. All of the parts I either got for free or had laying around, except for the SS pipe. It cost me $4.50. However, it was a lot of work. If I was not able to get out of my 3 hour CAD/CAM class to go weld up beer equipment, it would have been easier to go buy a cajun cooker or something like that. Soon I am going to cut the top off of my other keg and make a mash-lauder tun with a copper manifold. This post is longer than I planned, so I will stop here. Thank you for any advise I receive regarding the air holes in the burner. Steve Kenshalo skenshul at csufresno.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 10:31:12 MST From: npyle at n33.stortek.com Subject: Slamming? Not/Scotch Ale IBUs/new digest? Bob Regent writes: >You may or may not agree with Marks comments, but at least try to read his >messages correctly before slamming him. In defense of myself, and others who have been discussing the boil gravity vs. hop utilization issue: I don't think anyone has done any "slamming" of Mark in this thread. There has been some polite disagreement, but I haven't seen hide nor hair of a flame. Don't make this something it isn't. Also, I think it is pretty clear at this point what Mark has been claiming. What is not clear, at least to me, whether his assertions are accurate. Glenn Tinseth's (admittedly small piece of) data seems to contradict Mark. ** Mark Worwetz asks about Scottish Ales, and says that award winning SAs fall in the 30-50 IBU range. I don't know what these numbers are from but the AHA lists them something like 9-20 IBU, which is very low indeed. Of course, it is entirely possible that BJCP judges like hops and if the beer is good, well, it wins the prize, regardless of the rules. ** >From the "Credit where Credit is Due" Department, Rob Reed wrote: >Some guys wrote an article in Zymurgy awhile back that touted >benefits from adding darker grains to the mash at 'mash-out', but >I believe the point was the preservation of melanoidins for the >enhancement of "smoothness" and rounder flavors. Those "guys" were Micah Millspaw, late of the world famous HBD (he hasn't gacked; he's a pro now, and off the digest), and Bob Jones, a current contributor to HBD. Thanks guys! ** Mark Evans wants us to make a Hop Utilization FAQ and to quit wasting his time every day with discussions about it. Mark, if you've read any of these threads, you'd realize that there is absolutely no concensus on the thing, because of inadequate data, conflicting data, and the never ending "personal experience". If the issue is ever resolved, it'll undoubtedly go into the Hops FAQ, but until then, I believe it is a very appropriate topic for this forum. Buy a new spacebar, this thing isn't going away. Norm npyle at n33.stortek.com Return to table of contents
Date: 21 Mar 94 17:26:00 GMT From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: Utilization/Broken bottles Jim writes (quoting Glen)-- >> The HPLC showed that the utilization in the kettle for the high >> gravity wort was 20%, for the low gravity wort it was 42%. This > >That is fascinating data, especially for people brewing bitters, as >I believe there is no printed "homebrewer" info that implies numbers >above 30%, yet this seems to be the results in brewing a bitter with >out diluting. No wonder Phils bitters are so different from mine, >I do high gravity preferment dilution, he doesnt. Before anyone gets confused by these discussions, I'd like to point out that this data is utilization "in the kettle." There will be losses during fermentation. In the end, I'll bet that the high-gravity wort utilization will be down to about 15% and the low-gravity wort util will be down to about 30%, which would be in-line with the literature. What Rager's formulas dealt with were approximations of IBUs in the finished beer. They accounted for some variables and ignored others. I've successfully used them in my beers. I would be open to using new formulas as then become available. Quantification is what we really need from the research. How much the losses are affected by yeast, geometry, etc., is still unknown. ********** As yet, I have not broken a bottle with my capper (an Omega Deluxe bench capper) nor with my previous capper (a Jet, two handled, non-adjustable). This, after 150+ (bottled) batches of beer. I've used bottles from virtually every brewery that uses non-twist-off bottles. I have perhaps 25-30 cases of bottles and I keep reusing them. I add new bottles to my collection whenever I drink a commercial beer that comes in a non-twist-off, and lose bottles to competitions, so there is some turnover. Thomas wrote, quoting someone: >". . . most of the bottles I break are returnables . . . Bottles >like Guinness or Anchor Steam are a superior design to returnables, >and if I were to avoid a particular design it would be >non-returnables shaped like returnables . . . I would blame the >bottles rather than the capper." > >(I should point out that the above comment is particularly >controversial - which is why I included it - since I think most >homebrewers use long neck bottles, both refillables and non- >refillables. Perhaps the Guinness/Anchor steam shape is preferable >for non-refillables, as he implies? Any more data points?) Although I've never broken one, the Guinness bottles are the thinnest glass of all the bottles I've used, and therefore I would not say that they are superior. Incidentatlly, the Orval, Fullers, bar-bottles and the old-style Mackesons/Whitbread are the thickest glass. I think that with the two-handled cappers, shape plays more of a role in the ease/difficulty of capping. The ease/difficulty is important because as the difficulty of closure increases, so does the chance of putting a lateral stress on the neck of the bottle. With the Omega Deluxe and other bench cappers (which, by their design, cannot put a lateral stress on the neck of the bottle, unless you don't center it), it doesn't matter... from Thomas Hardy nips to Champagne magnums, no problems. It still is possible to "push down too hard" with a bench capper, but as I said before, I've yet to break a bottle while capping. I hope it hasn't been just luck, because if it was, this post is sure to have made it run out ;^). Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 10:45:10 -0700 From: Steve Dempsey <steved at longs.lance.colostate.edu> Subject: Re: Call for Judges, AHA NHC Denver My confused fingers typed the wrong days for the first round judging of the NHC in Denver. Corrected information is: Judging for the western region of the 1994 AHA National Homebrew Competition will be held in Denver on Saturday and Sunday, April 30 and May 1. ================================ Engineering Network Services Steve Dempsey Colorado State University steved at longs.lance.colostate.edu Fort Collins, CO 80523 ================================ +1 303 491 0630 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 09:58:27 -0800 (PST) From: Jeremy Ballard Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU> Subject: blue ice/yeast freezing Coyote writes that one might use blue ice to buffer the temperature changes of a frost-free freezer for yeast storage. I tried this once with some Chimay cultures. After 3 months I could not revive them. Just a data point. Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu Return to table of contents
Date: 21 Mar 94 18:02:49 GMT From: GANDE at slims.attmail.com Subject: Pike Place Pale Ale My buddy Carlo made it over to my house on Saturday with his usual handful of "imports" for us to sample. In the array was a bottle of Pike Place Pale Ale, unavailable to us up in Canada. I was intrigued by the intense chocolate flavor, where does this come from? It doesn't appear that there's chocolate malt in the beer, we speculate it's either the Maris Otter malts or the yeast strain. The bottle we had was brewed in Vermont. Does anyone have any comments, re the chocolate flavor? ...Glenn Anderson GANDE at SLIMS.ATTMAIL.COM Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 12:59 EST From: Jack Skeels <0004310587 at mcimail.com> Subject: Hop Utilization/Wort Chilling Hey Folks, I realize that I don't have the detailed technical knowledge or years of experience in brewing that some (such as Mark Garetz and Co.), but I saw something this weekend that makes want to throw my two cents in. I just bought a 24-qt. SS pot for brewing, and gave it a whirl. In the past, I've brewed in a 15-qt. ALUM pot, using extract and speciality grains. This weekend, while using my mother-of-all-pots, I noticed something different about the hops. When I put hops in the small pot, they would gather at the top of the boil, with only some of them really "mixing it up" with the wort. I would periodically push this mass of hops down, but they never really mixed well. When brewing a highly hopped ale (like SNPA), I could barely get the aroma hops mixed in before it was time to turn the heat off. With "momma", I now use 4 gallons of water in my boil, versus 1.5 with the little pot. My hops all mix in!!! None on the top, and they roll and roll, like they're on a roller-coaster. Is this another aspect of hop utilization that affects beginners? Very high gravity worts created by your typical novice homebrewer's equipment won't mix hops well?? I always use fresh and plug hops, should people who use small brewpots use pellets, just to insure that the hops "touch" the wort? I also suspect that one of may batches that had too much hop flavor was the result of insufficient isomerization due to the hops not getting hot and mixed in with the wort very well. What say you, great fonts of wisdom? BTW, I made a wort chiller (and pre-chiller) using a 50-foot roll of 3/8" copper tubing, and the instructions/ideas from wort_chillers.faq -- it worked great!!! Two thumbs up, highly recommended!! E-mail me for details if you are curious. Happy Brewing to all, Jack Skeels JSKEELS at MCIMAIL.COM Return to table of contents
Date: 21 Mar 1994 13:50:09 -0500 From: "Stephen Schember" <Stephen_Schember at terc.edu> Subject: Brit. Beerfest Subject: Time: 1:40 PM OFFICE MEMO Brit. Beerfest Date: 3/21/94 Could someone please send me or post the location and dates of the British beer Fest this Aug. ? -TIA Steve stephen_schember at terc.edu Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1378, 03/22/94