HOMEBREW Digest #1379 Wed 23 March 1994
Digest #1378
Digest #1380
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Please readdress and resend ("PDXML1")
Re: Two-Stage Fermentation (Automagical Mail Responder)
watering down/CO2 serving pressures/blackberry sourness (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
RE: GLASS AIR LOCK (greg.demkowicz)
saint (RONALD DWELLE)
easymasher (DAMON_NOEL/HP0800_01)
icebeer/o2 permeability of polyproplene (U-E68316-Scott Wisler)
Brewing in Ala, Bottle Washing (Thomas_Fotovich-U2347)
AHA 1st Round, Chicago Judging ("Hamburg, Steve")
anaerobic kegging (William Nichols)
Hop utilization HBD 1377 (mike.keller)
RIMS (Louis K. Bonham)
specialty grain mashing (Marc de Jonge)
re: get what you pay for (Jim Sims)
Blackberry stout (Brett Charbeneau)
iso amyl acetate (rprice)
2 questions (Ronald B. Moucka)
Tales of a First All-Grainer (Thomas_Fotovich-U2347)
The greatgrind prophet spake verily! (Ulick Stafford)
Re: Chiller Theory ("Palmer.John")
Low ETOH Ales (Richard Buckberg)
Re: Pike Place Pale Ale (Gordon Baldwin)
RE: Sankeys, cheap pubs, Bob Jones (Jim Busch)
How do you make Specialty grains? (COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L)
Hop utilization ad infinitum (Allen Ford)
Mashing-stiffness/enzymes/specialty malts ("Taylor Standlee")
Rogue smoke yeast (Jeremy Ballard Bergsman)
modifying refrigerators (Bryan L. Gros)
Sources of glass airlocks - thanks! (Mike Dix)
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
then you MUST unsubscribe the same way!
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from
sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via
mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 1994 01:13:30 -0800
From: "PDXML1" <PDXML1 at pdxml1.mentorg.com>
Subject: Please readdress and resend
Mail*Link(r) SMTP Homebrew Digest #1376 (March 19,
!!!! Original Message >= 24K; See following enclosure. Preview follows
!!!!
Received: by pdxml2.mentorg.com with SMTP;19 Mar 1994 01:13:04 U
Received: from mgc.mentorg.com by rainbow.mentorg.com with SMTP
(15.11.1.6/15.5+MGC-TD 2.08) id AA20192; Sat, 19 Mar 94 01:07:51 -0800
Received: from hpfcla.fc.hp.com by mgc.mentorg.com with SMTP
(16.6/15.5+MGC-TD 2.20) id AA17274; Sat, 19 Mar 94 01:07:46 -0800
Received: from hpfcrdg.fc.hp.com by hpfcla.fc.hp.com with SMTP
(1.37.109.4/15.5+IOS 3.20) id AA03143; Sat, 19 Mar 94 02:00:36 -0700
Received: by hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
(16.6/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA24944; Sat, 19 Mar 94 01:00:40 -0700
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 94 01:00:40 -0700
Message-Id: <9403190800.AA24944 at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com>
To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
From: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Request Address Only - No
Articles)
Reply-To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Posting Address Only - No Requests)
Errors-To: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Precedence: bulk
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1376 (March 19, 1994)
HOMEBREW Digest #1376 Sat 19 March 1994
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Two-Stage Fermentation ("Robert H. Reed")
Utilization vs Boil Grav. (b_regent)
Mail Order Hop Rhizomes ("LYMAN, Michael D.")
(Rich Larsen)
Netherlands ("Mark Jansen")
IBUs in hopped extract? (Allan Rubinoff)
Washington DC Beer Expo (Derek Montgomery)
Copper Manifolds ("Thomas Kavanagh, Curator")
re:Animal products??? (AYLSWRTH)
Re: Food grade sealant ("Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616")
rooting hormones and hops... (SIMJONES)
Re: Treatment of Specialty Grains ("Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616")
Re: Hops/cheap Bpubs/EM/Doppesl (Jim Busch)
Real kegs (Eugene Sonn)
Montreal pub/restaurant (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
RE:DE-LIDDING (greg.demkowicz)
Specialty Grains (Milstead Robert)
re:Broken bottle when capping, part 1 of 2 (AYLSWRTH)
(Allen Ford)
re: Broken bottles when capping, part 2 of 2 (AYLSWRTH)
A few questions ("Michael J. Poaletta")
Mega brewing/Specialty Grains/Eis (npyle)
Hop Utilization, Scotch Ale (Mark Worwetz)
Frozen Yeast Storage (COYOTE)
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
then you MUST unsubscribe the same way!
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe
first.
FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from
sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via
mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently
ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 22:19:57 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert H. Reed" <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: Two-Stage Fermentation
Shawn writes regarding he benefits of two-stage fermentaion:
>
> Can anyone convince me why I should use a double stage fermentation
> process?
>
I can share with you a few reasons why I use two-stage fermentation:
1) Secondary fermentation provides additional time for the beer
to clear - results in less sediment in the bottle
2) Secondary fermentation done properly allows the fermentation to
go to completion - thus improving uniformity in carbonation - depending
on the yeast used, and the carbohydrate makeup of the wort, there can be
a fairly large range of fermentation times required to 'ferment out'.
3) Secondary fermentation is somewhat of a convienance factor: I have
anywhere from two to five fermentors running all the time. The two-stage
process allows me to package the finished beers at my leisure without
concerns of autolysis (can occur is beer is left on a large yeast mass
for too long)
4) Many big beers and all meads requi
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 12:22:16 -0700
From: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Automagical Mail Responder)
Subject: Re: Two-Stage Fermentation
(This message has been generated by a program, and is for your
information only. No further action is necessary.)
Your article has been received for publication in the Homebrew
Digest. There are currently 29 article(s) ahead of yours in
the queue that will be published first.
If you would like to cancel your article for some reason, you
may do so any time before it is published, by sending a message
to homebrew-request whose body (not subject) contains the line:
cancel article 03211222.1643
Remember, send the cancel request to homebrew-request, NOT homebrew!
Thanks for your submission and your support of the Digest!
Rob (program author)
Return to table of contents
Date: 21 Mar 94 19:28:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: watering down/CO2 serving pressures/blackberry sourness
Keith writes:
>But the extract homebrewer is most certainly watering the wort down *after*
>fermentation. Well, at least those who do partial boils.
Not in my experience. I know of no homebrewer who is watering down the
wort *after* fermentation on a regular basis (some have done a few
experimental batches), but most of the extract brewers I know are watering
down the wort *before* fermentation. There are a number of homebrewers
I know (myself included, when I do extract batches) that do full-boil
extract batches, so please don't assume that *all* extract brewers are doing
partial boils.
********
Bart writes:
>William Nichols relates problems with force carbonation of kegs. I don't
>have exact answers for proper PSIs, but I do have the following advice :
>
>"Store high, Serve low"
>
>That is, you need to lower the pressure for serving. Afterwards, the keg
>should be pumped up to preserve carbonation. I've found that 5 PSI
This is not necessarily true if you have the proper back pressure from your
serving line. See Dave Miller's article in the 1992 AHA National Conference
Proceedings, "Just Brew It." I did my math, adjusted my hose lengths and
can serve and store at the same pressure without problems, one pint a week
if I wish.
**********
Chris writes:
>Just wanted some opinions. I made the blackberry stout with 60 oz
>of frozen blackberries. My OG was 1.061, after 3 days I racked with
>an SG of 1.027. After 5 days the SG was still 1.027 so I bottled.
>It's 12 days latter and the beer tastes a little sour (not going
>bad sour, just sour). I expected with the high FG that it'd be a little
>sweet (though I prefer dry beers). Am I just being too impatient, and
Blackberries and raspberries have quite a bit of acidity in them. They
don't seem that sour because they are so sweet. Once all that sweetness
ferments away, the sourness really comes through. I'm even thinking about
adding Calcium Carbonate to my raspberry beers to counter some of that
sourness. Note that the larger a sugar molecule gets, the less sweet
it tastes to us. Glucose is sweeter than sucrose which is sweeter than
lactose. Malto-dextrin will add a lot of body and FG, but will not really
add much sweetness at all. If you want it to be sweeter, you might try
adding lactose at bottling time. Note that lactobacillus WILL ferment
lactose, so you better be sure that there's no lactobacillus in there
before you add the lactose, or you might get glass grenades.
Al.
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 14:01:59 -0500 [EST]
From: greg.demkowicz at circellar.com
Subject: RE: GLASS AIR LOCK
Glass Air locks can be obtained form "The Brewmeister"
115 No. Union Ave., Cranford, N.J. 07016. Phone Number:
908-709-9295 or 800-322-3020 (outside of N.J.). Yes,
he does do mail order.
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 14:57:21 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: saint
Is there a patron saint of brewers (or homebrewers)?
(Traditionally, that is.)
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 08:26:00 -0700
From: DAMON_NOEL/HP0800_01 at mailhub.cs.itc.hp.com
Subject: easymasher
Jack has pointed out the ease with which heat can be added to the
mash using his system. As a subscriber to the protein rest system
I find it necessary to add bunches of calories to the mash and I
have only been able to do this with a lot of stirring to prevent
hot spots and scorching. I am puzzled at how this can be done without
damage to the screen tube which I visualize projecting across the
bottom of the mash tun...what's wrong with this picture?
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 16:18:00 EST
From: U-E68316-Scott Wisler <wisler_scott at ae.ge.com>
Subject: icebeer/o2 permeability of polyproplene
Popular Science has a short blurb this month on a `filterless water
purification system' which got me thinking about this megabrewery icebeer
nonsense. A volume of non-pure water is drawn into a chamber. A cold
source cools the water from the top until approximately 10% of the water is
frozen. A drain in the bottom lets out all the remaining water, leaving
the ice. Since the impurities are more soluable in a liquid than a
solid, the remaining ice is 90% to 95% pure of particulates, ions and
even bacteria. A heat source then melts the nearly-pure ice for
drinking water, etc.
So if its true that freezing a portion water gives you nearly pure
ice, with nearly everything else remaing in the liquid, what is the point
of icebeer? They freeze and extract some of the water - which I suspect
is H2O and only H2O. Then they add back `pure' water to make up the
volume loss. Did I miss something?
***
A week or so ago Al gave a great post about the nature of gasses and O2
permeability of HDPE. What about polyprplene?
I bought two 2 gallon polyproplene bottles from American Science and
Surplus, maninly for preparation and short-term storage of sanitizing
solution. I'm trying to become more consistent batch-to batch, and I should
be able to measure out an appropriate ppm bleach solution with the graduated
bottles.
However, I occasionally need a 2 gallon secondary fermenter, and it
would be nice to know if polyproplene is appropriate. Note that it may
be better to temporarially secondary ferment small volumes in plastic,
than in a 5 gallon glass carboy, because the unpurged headspace (in this
case 3 gallons) contains a lot more O2 than could permeate through the
polyproplene.
scott
Scott Wisler
swisler at c0431.ae.ge.com
GE Aircraft Engines
Cincinnati, OH
Return to table of contents
Date: 21 Mar 94 16:50:00 -0600
From: Thomas_Fotovich-U2347 at amail.mot.com
Subject: Brewing in Ala, Bottle Washing
Charles Jackson write:
>HELP!!! (He says in a loud and paniced voice)
> Just read in the Birmingham paper that it is ILLEGAL to brew
>beer in Alabama, (and Oklahoma nad Utah - just to make a few other
>folks sweat a bit).
>I had been lead to believe that the changes in federal law during the
>Carter administration made it legal in all 50. Seems as if I was
>lead astray. The tone of the article was such that one could easily
>infer that the ABC folks were not going to be busting any doors to
>search for carboys but htey did say it was illegal to brew or possess
>homebrew - now how is a guy supposed to relax?
Yes. It is illegal to brew beer in Alabama. You can fermint 5 gal. of
wine per year if you grow the fuit. I would not worry to much about
brewing being illegal, just don't sell the stuff. I know many people
who have been brewing for years without a problem. I don't know what
kind of penalties are involved if you get caught, though. Just don't
advertise your homebrew and you should be okay 8-). (In fact, there
is a store here in Huntsville which sells homebrewing/wine making
supplies.)
-----------------
Did you ever wonder if the water was ever getting up into the bottles
when you washed them in the dishwasher? I always did, until on day
when I was in a hurry. I hadn't remove the labels of most of my
bottles but just had to bottle that day. So, I loaded the bottles
(labels and alll) into the dishwasher (pot scrubbing mode, heat dry).
Well, _EVERY_ bottle had label "stuff" stuck to the bottom. Morel:
remove labels before dishwashing, and yes Virginia, dishwashers do do
a good job of cleanning bottles.
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 18:52:54 EST
From: frisk at interc.cust.ccur.com
Subject: Cannabis instead of Hops - M. Jackson Comments
I was lucky enough to spend the weekend in Philadelphia, at the University of
Pennsylvania's "Book and the Cook" event. Michael Jackson hosted two events,
the first being a dinner featuring the Beers of Belgium which was similar to
the event that was in the Beer Hunter videos and the second being a tutored
tasting of 13 American microbrews.
I had been waiting for the opportunity to bring up the idea of cannibis
instead of hops with Mr. Jackson, but would you believe he beat me to the
punch? He was discussing the fact that drying hops smells like the 1960s
because of hops relationship to cannabis. He then went on to mention a
homebrew that he had tried at a competition sometime back which he noted was
somewhat "special." It turns out the beer was made with pot. Apparently, it
was also pretty good.
I mentioned to him the little "discussion" that had been going on in HBD and
he chuckled...then signed my Beer Companion book "Watch out for those
cannabis beers!"
I guess catnip beer would be completely out of the question!
The Book and the Cook events occur every year so look for it around this
time next year. Next year's event will feature Eastern vs. Western US beers.
Donna Forosisky
frisk at interc.cust.ccur.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 18:35:00 PST
From: "Hamburg, Steve" <STEVIE%spss.com at spss.com>
Subject: AHA 1st Round, Chicago Judging
The Chicago regional 1st round judging for the AHA National Homebrew
Competition is scheduled Friday and Saturday, May 6-7. Midwest judges
should note that this is the weekend after 1st round judging in Cincin-
nati.
Judging will take place at Cavanaugh's Restaurant, in the landmark
Monadnock Building in Chicago's Loop. Competition entries should still
be delivered to Goose Island Brewing, however. Due to space conflicts
at the Goose (the famed Goose Wing will be no more due to the major
demolition/reconstruction at 1800 N Clybourn), we will not be able to
judge there. But in spite of the site change, we'll still hold the 2nd
Annual Midwest Invitational Brewoff and Dinner on Saturday night, May 7.
This definitely means that we'll have a tremendous stock of superior
homebrew to quaff after judging has been completed.
A mailing to all regional judges will go out by the end of this week. If
you're itching to get involved though, you don't have to wait until you
get it. You can reply to either of the three site directors listed
below:
Steve Hamburg, Site Director: stevie at spss.com
Tim Norris, Judge Director: 71650.1020 at compuserve.com
Tony Babinec, Registrar: tony at spss.com
See you in Chicago!
+-----------------+---------------------------+------------------------+
| Steve Hamburg | Internet: stevie at spss.com | "Life is short, and so |
| SPSS Inc. | Phone: +1 312/329-3445 | are some brewers." |
| Chicago, IL USA | Fax: +1 312/329-3657 | |
+-----------------+---------------------------+------------------------+
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 1994 09:11:12
From: bnichols at mlab.win.net (William Nichols)
Subject: anaerobic kegging
Ben Woodliff suggests purging your c-keg before filling to prevent
O2 contamination. I agree and take it 1 step further.
- With both locks on and the bung open, fill the keg with CO2 from
the bottom. Use the 'out' lock with the dip tube connected to the
CO2.
-Close the bung and bleed the CO2 from the 'in', again from the
bottom to the top. The keg is now completly purged.
- Connect the siphon hose to the 'out' lock (the dip tube) and
siphon the beer, filling the keg again from the bottom to the top.
The CO2 displaced by the beer will vent from the 'in' lock, it
must be on or the siphon won't work. Keep an eye on the siphon
hose, if you start to suck some muck, you can probably pull the
lock off before it gets into the keg. The lock will neatly seal
right away.
Cheers
Bill Nichols <bnichols at mlab.win.net>
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 94 02:29:00 BST
From: mike.keller at genie.geis.com
Subject: Hop utilization HBD 1377
Keith MacNeal writes:
>>But the extract homebrewer is most certainly watering the wort down
>>*after* fermentation. Well, at least those who do partial boils.
No, they water down after the boil, but before the fermentation. If
you top up the secondary, there's a small amount of watering down,
but I doubt that's significant to this discussion.
mike.keller at genie.geis.com
manager, zymurgy roundtable, GEnie
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 21:11:52
From: lkbonham at beerlaw.win.net (Louis K. Bonham)
Subject: RIMS
Jack Schmidling writes:
>Now we get to the real question, what is the advantage of the CM? It seems a
> bit like RIMS, once you get beyond the fun of building, using and talking
> about it, it offers no advantage over simpler methods.
As to his less-than-subtle swipe as RIMS units, I disagree.
As Jack is fond of relying on Dr. Fix's expert opinions
when they favor *his* products, perhaps he should consider
Dr. Fix's rave review of the BrewMagic RIMS. This unit offers
substantial advantages over conventional methods, including
pinpoint temperature control, increased extract yield, and
less labor.
While the BrewMagic unit is, admittedly, a pricey item, the
fact remains that RIMS units can and do work.
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 94 10:27:00 +0100
From: dejonge at tekserv.geof.ruu.nl (Marc de Jonge)
Subject: specialty grain mashing
in HBD1378 Todd Carlson asks for a list with mashing
instructions.
This is a rule of thumb for anyone in doubt:
Cut a grain in half and inspect the interior,
If it is very dark brown to black - doesn't matter.
If it is glassy/caramelly, any colour - shouldn't mash *).
If it is starchy/floury and beige-brown - should mash, has no enzymes **).
If it is starchy/floury and white - should mash, has enzymes.
*) Note that some types of malts (special B for example) are a mix of
different types of grains.
**) Turn-over point for the colour is slightly darker than munich malt,
which will just about convert itself but no additional adjuncts.
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Marc de Jonge dejonge at geof.ruu.nl
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 94 08:00:33 EST
From: sims at scra.org (Jim Sims)
Subject: re: get what you pay for
I also disagree that you "get what you pay for". Shop around. As
someone once put it "Retail is for suckers".
I got my keg setup from the local resturant supply/surplus place. I
got the 5 gal cornelius SS kegs for $5-10 each, cornelius regulator
for $15-20, CO2 cylinder (SCUBA tank size, not the wimpy one) for $20
[it cost $28 for the local welding gas supply shop to inspect and fill
it - been using it "regularly" :-) since last July - almost time to
refill]. They threw in the hoses and fittings for free.
I explained that I was making *beer* to put in all those kegs I was
buying (have about 6 now), and the owner got _real_ interested. I took
him a six-pack of some ~light beer and a 1/2 keg of Nut Brown Ale. He
tried and and decided "this guy makes the best beer I ever had!".
We're good buddies now. He _gave_ me a 15 gal SS Sankay keg the other
day - "try this and see if these work for you".....
jim
Return to table of contents
Date: 22 Mar 94 08:30:13
From: bwchar at mail.wm.edu (Brett Charbeneau)
Subject: Blackberry stout
Christopher Alan Strickland asks about the tart flavor of his young
blackberry stout:
I had a similar experience with sourness in a blueberry beer
I made last August. It was VERY squacky even 4 weeks after bottling
and I actually gave up on it - swearing to learn to make sweat mead
to mix with it before serving. BUT you should taste it now: mellow,
wonderful color, clean taste - almost sweet.
Anyway, don't give up on your blackberry batch. Just let it
sit a while for the differnet tastes to 'marry' (as they say in wine
blending). It's a real education to taste one about every two weeks
and check out the transformation already underweigh.
Hope this helps!
Brett Charbeneau
Beer Geek wannabe in Williamsburg, VA
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 09:23:30 -0500
From: rprice at cbmse.nrl.navy.mil
Subject: iso amyl acetate
In reply to Jeff Benjamin re: amyl acetate, the presence of amyl acetate
isn't somthing we all expect in the profile of a home brew beer at a
detectable level. The laundry list is from an HPLC standard profile that is
commonly used for brewing/fermenting.
The presence of the amyl acetate at this level is not a common profile
that one would expect. Getting "hit in the nose by bananas" isn't
somthing that I would expect when opening a fermenter.
The biochemical soup left after a natural fermentation isn't fixed in stone,
and an off batch isn't uncommon. The easiest way to handle the problem
is to change yeast, review the logbook and figure out what changed,
clean up, and try again.
In the past microscopists used amyl acetate as a final solvent prior to
critical point drying for SEM preperation. That use has been reduced as
younger scientists felt that the amyl acetate would pose health risks.
The reason it was used; however, was the fact that the amyl acetate
was freely miscible with CO\2, so it is likely that the odor might have
been more easily noticed because it had partitioned into the CO2 and
was being stripped from the been in amounts sufficient to detect while
not being an overpowering force in the brew ??
Anyone have more thoughts on the amyl acetate ??
If I get a chance when it warms up I will do a high temp ale brew and do
a HPLC profile, it would be interesting to see if the Wyeast sample puts
out significant amyl acetate in the profile.
Cheers !
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 94 8:06:08 MST
From: rmoucka at lobo.rmh.pr1.k12.co.us (Ronald B. Moucka)
Subject: 2 questions
Fellow Homebrewers:
I've been reading the Digest for several months now, and have found it to be
most helpful. I'm hoping some of you might help me with a growing concern I
have. How do you keep your racking tubes clean? I have always soaked them in
a bleach solution in a 5 gallon bucket for 30 minutes or so. No problem with
the hose, as it can be coiled in the bucket. However, the straight tube and
racking cane are never more than half submerged in the solution. Over time,
these tubes get a hazy, scratched appearance and I am concerned they are
harboring little beasties I don't want in my brew. Any ideas?
Secondly, and I hope not related to the first question, I just finished a
steam beer that tastes like Grandpa beer (I call it Grandpa beer because it
tastes like the beer my father-in-law used to make). Has a sour/yeasty smell
and a cloudy appearance. I've made this all grain recipe before and it came
out clear with a clean hoppy nose. Obvoiusly some kind of infection and
that's never happened to me before. I'm starting to panic. What if all my
equipment is infected? I always attributed Grandpa's bad beer to his high
fermentation temperatures but this beer was fermented at 61F using Wyeast
California Lager #2112. Any ideas on this one?
TIA
Ron Moucka
Return to table of contents
Date: 21 Mar 94 17:15:00 -0600
From: Thomas_Fotovich-U2347 at amail.mot.com
Subject: Tales of a First All-Grainer
A few weeks ago I decided to start doing all-grain brewing (there was
a parallel brew on compu$erve I wanted to compete in). I open TNCGTHB
to the "Advanced" section to find out what equipment I needed. Since
I have been extract brewing for a couple of years I was sure I have
everything. All I needed was a large kettle, a mush tun, a
lauter/sparging system, and a wort chiller. So I orderd a Vallrath 38
quart pot from Williams Brewing, and a lautering/sparging system from
Brewers Resource. (Yes, I know there are other ways, but they were
belated x-mas gifts.) Bought 60 feet of copper to make the wort
chiller (hey, I've got to _something_). I already had a large cooler
to mash in. So, having the equipment, I downloaded several files for
compu$erve (at the time I didn't have access the I-net) about
all-grain brewing. Reread TNCGTHB several more time. Finally bought
the grain.
Since I was using wheat in my pale ale, I decided to step the mash per
TNCGTHB. So, into the cooler go the grains. Heat up the water then
dump into the cooler. Stir. Stir. Stir. Heat up more water the
dump into the cooler (all per TNCGTHB page 300 I think). In to the
sparging vessle. Sparge. Sparge. Sparge. The wort smells just like
extract so I took this as a good sign. Boil wort. Chilled the wort.
(Whole time from clean kitched to clean kitchen was 6.5 hours).
Pitched yeast. Waited. Waited. Bottled. Waited. Waited.
Results: After a week in the primary (dry hopping), a week in the
secondary, and a week in the bottle, the beer tasted, well, _GREAT_.
The beer is a little cloudy but that was due to inpatient sparging
(always a next time). I'm sure the beer will only inprove with some
time.
Bottom line: There is nothing to doing all-grain. Just a little more
equipment, a little more time, and a little more patients.
Standard Disclaimer.
Paddy Fotovich
FOTOVICH_THOMAS_U2347 at email.mot.com
"I'm not a real doctor, and I don't play one on TV."
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 94 10:22:59 EST
From: ulick at augustine.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: The greatgrind prophet spake verily!
A great pronouncement last week on HBD revealed that the false bottom
is now a museum piece. This pronouncement was made by the grind prophet
and had to be considered. So to test the prophesy it was decided to test
the great EM device - for a Weizen. Due to a shortage of malted wheat
the bill was only 5/9 wheat malt, but nevertheless a possible sticky mess
maker. The batch was brewed according to the book written by the great
weizen prophet. The test was performed in gott cooler, and the runoff
cleared quickly and flowed without problem, having to be restrained to limit
the rate.
Additional commentary. When I purchased the grinder the EM was included
as part of a deal and had remained idle for months after failing miserably as
a hop filter. I have a seperate lauter tun and to use the same pot for
mashing, lautering and boiling would add hours and trouble even if it were
possible - I need the pot for heating sparge water. However I did replace the
copper manifold with the mesh for this batch. Extract may have been
down marginally, but this may have ben due to the fast runoff instead of the
dead zones areound the bottom. It should be noted that I have never had a
problem sparging a weizen since I started decocting them, and the next EM test
will be a stout with 25% unmalted barley infusion mashed.
__________________________________________________________________________
'Heineken!?! ... F#$% that s at &* ... | Ulick Stafford, Dept of Chem. Eng.
Pabst Blue Ribbon!' | Notre Dame IN 46556
| ulick at darwin.cc.nd.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: 22 Mar 1994 08:22:55 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Re: Chiller Theory
Let me preface my response by saying that this should not be interpreted as
Charlie Bashing; trying to have a meaningful discussion on the differences
between Papazian and Miller is probably how the whole IRA political mess got
started.
What Ron Dwelle's question points out though, is that Charlie left out certain
key bits of information apparently. One big reason that we chill and attempt to
chill quickly is that a large temperature gradient causes the permanent
coagulation of proteins that then settle out. These proteins are known as the
Cold Break. It is these proteins that are responsible for a majority of Chill
Haze in the finished beer. Only the large temperature difference between
boiling and chilling temp provides the change in entropy necessary for the
coagulation. Otherwise, when you chill the beer in the fridge prior to
consumption, the proteins just coagulate enough to produce haze and are able to
go back into solution on warming.
Now, one reason Charlie may have left this out, Is that this does not impact
the flavor of the beer significantly. Its an appearence thing. Miller mentions
it because his favorite beer style are clear Pilsener type lagers. Charlie's
aim with his book, as I understand it, was to get people past some otherwise
potentially daunting technical details and onto actually brewing a beer. I like
knowing and understanding every part of a process, so I myself, can make the
decision on where to cut corners.
Other reasons to chill quickly, ie. with a copper wort chiller, is to reduce
the time available for infection and reduce the time spent brewing. Living in
southern California, where its always warm, and air quality is doubtful, there
are always airborne nasties to watch out for.
One alternative chilling method that may have a large potential are my wife's
feet. Past experience in other situations has shown that they have a
considerable heat sink capacity. I think just putting them against the sides of
the pot will probably do it. :-)
John Palmer MDA-SSD M&P palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com
"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!"
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 08:32:50 -0800
From: Richard Buckberg <buck at well.sf.ca.us>
Subject: Low ETOH Ales
A friend who is an amateur homebrewer makes fine ale, but he is concerned
that his penchant for sampling said fine ale sometimes causes, shall we say,
reduced capacity. So the question is, has anyone tried to make very light
alcohol ales, or is there a method for removing alcohol from ales that is
practical for the homebrewer?
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 08:46:09 -0800 (PST)
From: gbaldw at zaphod.usin.com (Gordon Baldwin)
Subject: Re: Pike Place Pale Ale
>
> My buddy Carlo made it over to my house on Saturday with his usual
> handful of "imports" for us to sample. In the array was a bottle of
> Pike Place Pale Ale, unavailable to us up in Canada. I was intrigued
> by the intense chocolate flavor, where does this come from? It
> doesn't appear that there's chocolate malt in the beer, we speculate
> it's either the Maris Otter malts or the yeast strain. The bottle we
> had was brewed in Vermont. Does anyone have any comments, re the
> chocolate flavor?
>
Pike Place Pale Ale is from the Pike Place brewery at the Pike Place
market in Seattle. I would be very supprised if it was brewed in
Vermont. (Well maybe not too supprised, but I would be dissapointed) It
is a very small brewery and if you stop by when they are brewing and
show some interest they might invite you in to help out. I have never
noticed a chocolate flavor in the Pale.
- --
Gordon Baldwin
gbaldw at usin.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 11:52:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: RE: Sankeys, cheap pubs, Bob Jones
Wayde writes:
> Subject: Homebrew into Sankey ("Real") Kegs...
>
> The only modification needed is to remove the backflow valve from
> your Sankey lock/air pump. Then to clean your keg you can slide a standard
> "bottle jet" washer into the beer out port. The jet of water will spray
> through the beer pipe to the bottom of the keg and drain out of the CO2
> port. Use you favourite sanitizer and when you are finished purge the keg
> with CO2 through the beer out port to push any air out the CO2 port.
> To fill the keg start your siphon and drain into the beer out
> port of the Sankey. This method delivers the beer to the bottom of the
> keg so it avoids aeration. As the keg fills the excess CO2 will be pushed
> out of the open CO2 port. Then put your Sankey lock/air pump back
> together and use it to pressurise and carbonate the keg of homebrew.
I also use 1/2 BBl sankeys. I agree that the backflow valve needs to be
removed, but I still could never fill the damn keg. It would fill up some
but maybe 20% of the keg was never getting filled. Maybe it was the
height on my siphon hose, that I needed more "head" on the siphon
to fill it, but in my system I could not adjust this. My solution has
been to fill 3 corny kegs and push each one into the sankey under CO2
pressure. This has worked well. Add the priming solution to the first
corny keg, siphon beer into this, then push it into the sankey.
John writes:
> Subject: RE: Jim Busch on Bpubs
>
> > You get what you pay for. Ever check the shelf life of a Sprecher product??
> > Next time your in DC, get one at the Brickseller.
>
> Was I talking about Sprecher's shelf life or how they got started on the
> cheap about 10 years ago?? The point is that equipment normally
> used for one purpose, *might* be usable in brewing. A good portion of HBD is
> dedicated to creating or converting equipment for brewing. Can you think of
> any brewing uses for a stainless steel temperature controlled milk storage
> tank, Jim?
Sure, but there is an enormous difference between what homebrewers can do
and what makes a long term successful operation. I actually like fresh
Sprecher beer (or I used to, its been awhile since Ive been to Milwaukee).
When you actually sit down and price out the difference between a new or
used *brewing* tank vs the costs of modifining something that was never
intended for brewing, the savings are questionable. In the last issue of
"The New Brewer", a big deal was made about how a California brewer increased
capacity by welding extensions onto his grundy tanks. I believe the result
was a 10 BBl tank. In the classifieds in the same issue was an ad for a
15 BBl used unitank for $5,500. I bet the mods alone cost the guy close
to a grand. At 10 kegs extra per week, the tank pays for itself in about
10 weeks.
>
> I also disagree with the idea that "you get what you pay for." I have been in
> many BIG BUCKS brewpubs that brew pond scum. Big bucks does not guaranty good
beer. I think IMHO that good beer can be brewed with a more modest investment.
Don't get me wrong, you need good equipment. But it's possible with a little
> creativity to cut your startup costs.
Sure, all the money in the world doesnt make a bad brewer good. All too
often, operations are centered around homebrewers who will kill to be
the "brewer". Usually these guys are paid substenance wages. One of
problems in the industry is that experienced brewers are passed by in
favor of inexperienced ones. Penny wise and pound foolish.
Norm writes:
> >From the "Credit where Credit is Due" Department, Rob Reed wrote:
>
> >Some guys wrote an article in Zymurgy awhile back that touted
> >benefits from adding darker grains to the mash at 'mash-out', but
> >I believe the point was the preservation of melanoidins for the
> >enhancement of "smoothness" and rounder flavors.
>
> Those "guys" were Micah Millspaw, late of the world famous HBD (he hasn't
> gacked; he's a pro now, and off the digest), and Bob Jones, a current
> contributor to HBD. Thanks guys!
While I prefer to add all of my grains at the beginning, I must admit
that Bobs beers were some of the best beers Ive had. Maybe Ill try it
in my next porter.
Best,.
Jim Busch
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 12:15:55 -0500 (EST)
From: COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L at Lilly.com
Subject: How do you make Specialty grains?
I seem to remember someone posting info on making crystal malts,
chocolate malt, etc. at home. I can't search for "threads". Can
someone e-mail me the HBD number to ftp? Is it interesting enough
to the masses to have it re-posted??
TIA, Sandy C. (cockerham at lilly.com)
From: COCKERHAM SANDRA L (MCVAX0::RX31852)
To: VMS MAIL ADDRESSEE (IN::"homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com")
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 11:50:49 -0600 (CST)
From: Allen Ford <allen at darwin.sfbr.org>
Subject: Hop utilization ad infinitum
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Keith MacNeal wrote:
> Chemically/thermodynamically speaking, it makes sense that more
>bitterness (aka iso-alpha acids) can be extracted in a greater volume --
>much the same way you can dissolve more sugar into a pot of coffee than
>you can in a mug of coffee.
This is true only if the solution is at the saturation point of the
solute. Using your analogy, a teaspoon of sugar will dissolve equally
well in both volumes. A pound of sugar would not.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but under normal hopping regimens, iso-
alpha acids are nowhere near saturation concentration. It seems realistic
to expect as much iso-aa to go into solution in 2-3 gallons as in 5-50
gallons given the same amount of hops and the same gravity.
This is where I have been having problems with Mark Garetz's comments
from 15 March where he states that increasing the hopping rate reduces
utilization in the boil.
Please help me understand this. Where does my logic fail? Just out of
curiosity, what is saturation for iso-aa in beer wort?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Allen Ford <allen at darwin.sfbr.org> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=-=-= Southwest Foundation for Biomedical Research San Antonio, Texas =-=-=
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 11:02:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Taylor Standlee" <standlee at humanitas.ucsb.edu>
Subject: Mashing-stiffness/enzymes/specialty malts
In the last several digests I have followed the thread on Specialty Malt
additions at mashout with interest. It seems to me that if these grains
are added at mashout they will be under-utilized. Even though the crystal
malts and dextrine malts are basically pre-mashed it doesn't seems that
they will have enough time to disolve their sugars. Maybe adding them
during the last 15 minutes of the mash would allow for more solubilty.
On another tact: Since we know that higher mash temperature,
ones that favors alpha amylase, give us a sweeter less fermentable
wort and lower temps give us a drier more fermentable wort; I am interested
in how mash stiffness effects fermentabilty (if at all). What are some
other factors that we can use to control the fermentabilty of the wort?
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Taylor Standlee Tel.: (805) 893-2374 or 2131
Germanic, Oriental, Slavic Fax: (805) 893-2374
UC Santa Barbara, CA, 93106-4130 Email: standlee at humanitas.ucsb.edu
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 10:25:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeremy Ballard Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Rogue smoke yeast
I just cultured the yeast out of Rogue's Smoke beer, the only beer of theirs
that I have noticed any sediment in. Does anyone know anything about this
yeast? I am about to make a smoke beer, so I thought I might try it for fun,
but of course I'll never make out any subtleties of the yeast under all that
smoke.
Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 94 10:53:02 PST
From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros)
Subject: modifying refrigerators
What are other people's suggestions or experience with drilling a
hole in the side of a refrigerator for a gas line? What should I
look out for? Do you plug the hole with anything after inserting
the gas line?
The only suggestion I have so far is to work from the inside, cut
the plastic away and feel around first to make sure nothing is
there.
- Bryan
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 94 11:29:50 "PST
From: Mike Dix <mdix at dcssc.sj.hp.com>
Subject: Sources of glass airlocks - thanks!
I got four answers to my request, but nothing posted to the HBD except
another request, so I thought I would post the answers I got. Remember
the object is to prepare a starter wort on the stove, in the process
sanitizing flask, stopper, and glass airlock (which fills with condensed
steam.)
Eric McCoy:
> About your glass airlock, Alternative Beverage in Charlotte, NC carries them.
> The item number is AIR-G and it sells for $7.50. Their phone numbers are:
> Advice line (740) 527-BEER
> Fax line (704) 527-9643
> Order line (800) 365-BREW
They have a $10 minimum order. For two, the price climbed to $20 with
shipping.
Spencer Thomas suggested trying Korz if I got desperate, because Al is no
longer in the mail order business. So I was reluctant.
Jim Doyle had one made by his friendly neighborhood glass blower, and
suggested I try my local junior college or phone book.
Brad Brim said he had seen them at the Beverage People store in Santa
Rosa. I called: They had one in stock, for $8.95 plus $3.xx for
shipping. They said it would take a week or two to get more. Their
800-no. is 800-544-1867 (per directory assistance).
Thanks again to all my correspondents.
Mike Dix
Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1379, 03/23/94