FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Fridge modification : (Gary Hawkins)
  Re: autolysis (Joseph Edward Santos)
  CANCEL (dan.aldrich)
  Boston brewpubs? (JUKNALIS)
  Re: tarnished brewpot (John Hartman)
  Coca Cola keg pressure relief. (GANDE)
  Ngoma and a DC brewpub/club (Eugene Sonn)
  Those Highly Dangerous Grolsch Bottles ("Palmer.John")
  Grains at mashout (Bob Jones)
  Cleaning Stainless steel ("Palmer.John")
  Lagering in Bottles/Kegs (David Knight)
  Indiginous recipies in last Zymurgy (XLPSJGN)
  Proposal for Internet Beer Research Project (Alan_Marshall)
  Easy masher and Micro Masher (wyatt)
  Home-Grown CO2 (Roger Grow)
  Al's comments (Kelly Jones)
  PikePlacePA/RackingCaneSanit/FridgeMods/GlassAirlocks/AHAproceedings (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  BrewHaHa and other suppliers (Paul J. Schumacher)
  5 Liter Mini Kegs (GNT_TOX_)
  yeast q (RONALD DWELLE)
  homebrew digest (pyroarts)
  Canadian Hop suppliers??? (Robert Schultz)
  Stuck Mash (Jack Schmidling)
  Plastics and Permiability (U-E68316-Scott Wisler)
  Grain Mills?? (Timothy Sixberry)
  JUNK YARD SODA KEGS ("KERRY.WILSON")
  GROLSCH BOTTLES (Tom Romalewski +1 908 577 4411)
  Patron saint of beer (Jay Lonner)
  mixing yeast strains/grains at mashout (Kelvin Kapteyn)


Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from 
  sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via 
  mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu.  Send HELP as the body of a 
  message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) 
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 00:44:11 -0800
From: Gary Hawkins <ghawkins at halcyon.com>
Subject: Fridge modification :

In addition to the use of standard twist drills for drilling through
the fridge wall, you might investigate small keyhole saws.
I used a 1" for the faucet hole and a 3/4" for the CO2 line.
the holes were clean and the drilling easy.

- -- 
 ......................................................................
::   	Gary Hawkins			::					
:: 	ghawkins at halcyon.com		::	"It's the Water." 

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 07:02:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Joseph Edward Santos <jesantos at WPI.EDU>
Subject: Re: autolysis

      Brian,	
 
	I have found that autolysis starts after about 12-14 days in my
primary. It is dependent on the temperature and the yeast. A standard 
condition at my home brewery is 72F and EDME ale yeast. The off flavors 
that are indicative of autolysis are due to the deterioration of the yeast
cells on the fermenter bottom. You should be noticing a yeasty flavor 
with a hint of dirty sock! The flavor is much more pronounced when the 
brew is not chilled. If you haven't chilled it yet do so and let it sit 
for a couple weeks and enjoy.

			Dr. J

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 08:02:59 
From: dan.aldrich at his.com
Subject: CANCEL


cancel


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 08:05:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: JUKNALIS at arserrc.gov
Subject: Boston brewpubs?

	Hi, could someone send me a quick & dirty listing of Boston area
pubs of virtue.  Thanks.     Joe

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 08:53:47 -0600 (CST)
From: John Hartman <jhartman at vnet.IBM.COM>
Subject: Re: tarnished brewpot

Excerpts from mail: 25-Mar-94 Homebrew Digest #1381 (Marc.. Request No
Articles at hpfc (44788)

> From: Tim Lawson <lawson at clcunix.msj.edu>
> Subject: tarnished brewpot

>   Can anyone recommend a way to remove the discoloration from my
> stainless steel brewpot.  I tried to remove the seemingly cemented on
> wort stains from the bottom of the pot by putting it in my oven and
> putting the oven through its self-cleaning cycle.  This resulted (as I
> had feared) in a badly discolored brewpot (now a copper color)--but at
> least the bottom is clean!!  Is this discoloration harmful to brewing
> beer?  If so, how do I get rid of it?  I have already tried Comet and
> Brasso to no avail.

I'm not a metalurgist, but I did work in my uncle's metal fabrication
shop for a summer years ago.  When SS gets too hot it discolors.  That's
what happened to yours when you put it in the self-clean cycle (doesn't
that get up to something like 500F?).

I don't think you can remove it, but I don't believe it will hurt your
brewing.

Ever see a DeLorean (sp?) which had a copper colored front end?  Don't
know whether to laugh or cry.  ;-)

 -John

John Hartman                  AFS: jhartman+
Dept 54T/020-3 J221           VM: jhartman at rchland (if you must :)
AIX/AFS Technical Team        internet: jhartman at vnet.ibm.com
IBM Rochester, MN             (507)253-8037 tl. 553-8037


Return to table of contents


Date: 25 Mar 94 15:04:45 GMT
From: GANDE at slims.attmail.com
Subject: Coca Cola keg pressure relief.


Mike sez...

>Date: Thu, 24 Mar 94 09:18:00 PST
>From: "McCaw, Mike" <mccaw at wdni.com>
>Subject: Press relief valves in old Coca Cola Kegs

>Jeff M. Michalski, MD writes that he found old PinLock kegs with a
> nipple-shaped
>pressure relief valve.  These are Coca Cola kegs, and that is one of
>two standard Coca Cola tops.  The other type has a metal stud and a
>double "C" shaped stamping on the lid which has been ground thin.
>Both
>of these are pure blowouts, not  pressure reliefs (i.e. - no way
>to release pressure.  They just let go at 120 psi)
> .
>Fox Equipment in Denver (800/525-2484) can sell you a new insert for
>that valve, but it would still not provide you with a way to release
>pressure gently.  (standard disclaimer)

I've got a pile of old Pin-Locks that I use regularly, WITHOUT any
sort of pressure relief mechanism on the lids.  The surest and
easiest way to releive pressure from these cans is to simply apply
the business end of a Robertson screwdriver to the gas-in poppet.
Keep the screwdriver as clean as you would the pin mechanism in the
CO2 attachment on your gas bottle.

 .....Glenn
EMAIL: GANDE at SLIMS.ATTMAIL.COM













Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 10:38:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Eugene Sonn <eugene at sccs.swarthmore.edu>
Subject: Ngoma and a DC brewpub/club

Gentlebrewers,
	I had asked a few months ago about how to clone an African beer 
called Ngoma.  Someone in D.C. responded saying his brewclub or a local 
brewpub was going to have a presentation by the brewmeisters from that 
brewery.  Alas, I have lost the address of that wonderful person.  So if 
you are that person, or even if you are not but went to the presentation 
by the Ngoma brewmeisters, I would appreciate any information you could 
give.  

Thanks in advance

Eugene Sonn

Return to table of contents


Date: 25 Mar 1994 07:45:20 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Those Highly Dangerous Grolsch Bottles

Robert, 
Your dad has a whole case?! Omygosh, be very careful, box them up with lots of
packing material and send them to me. I am a trained professional and can
dispose of them properly. Yessiree, better let me take care of those, you
wouldn't want to go to your neighborhood brewshop for replacement gaskets.
Those are dangerous, too...Yep, better invest in some plain bottle caps and
send the Grolsch bottles to me.

John Palmer palmer#d#john at ssdgwy.mdc.com
PS. I am anticipating seeing this same recommendation from at least five other
brewers in tomorrows HBD.

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 08:25:28 +0800
From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: Grains at mashout

Scott Wisler asks some more questions.....

>Does the practice of adding specialty grains at mashout to improve malty
>aroma work for all grains/styles?   If this is the case then one must 
>decide, based on style, when to add specialty grains.  I noticed that in 
>practice, you only add specialty grains at mashout for dark beers (different 
>reasons for different styles) e.g. a Munich might need the more malty aroma 
>while it might not be as appropriate for a Ordinary Bitter.

The effect on ANY style can be subtle to major. A lot depends on things we
haven't even talked about. Such things as : what type of specialty grain,
the freshness of the crack, etc. Just consider this technique another knob
on the final flavor and aroma. sort of like dry hopping or late hopping is
to bitterness.


>The next question was: Is it the mashout that does it, or just a shorter
>mash time (e.g. no mashout).  Bob, you said it don't work.  Why don't it 
>work?  

Yes, it is both the shorter mash AND the higher temps needed to acheive
optimum benefit from grains added at mashout.

>My third question was about color and whether the color potential of the
>grain was affected.  Bob, you guessed 20% more grain (and therefore color 
>potential) is necessary.  Is this due to steeping time? In other words, a 
>finer crush might help?  How much of the extract potential of the grain
>is available from mashout-only.  Will boosting specialty grains by 20%
>to meet color requirements affect the extract balance?

Sure the color is effected. That's why you need to add more grain to acheive
the same effective color. I don't think a finer crush is a better answer. A
good crush is alway preferred. I assume you mean extract yield when you say
extract balance. The yield or goodness extracted from grains added at
mashout is reduced, again thats why one might consider adding 20% more than
normal. All this is a guess on my part. It ain't science here we are talking
about with this technique, it's art! I would suggest some of the people who
have tried it, chime in with their experience, both positive and negative.


>Finally, a 10 minute rest after the mash out was mentioned.  I have
>never purposefully done this, for no other reason than I didn't know
>about it when I started mashing, and I haven't had problems that I
>couldn't trace elsewhere.  Is the purpose of the post-mash rest just
>time, or are you letting the mash settle onto/over the straining device?
>It usually only takes a few minutes to transfer the mash to the lauter tun 
>and get everything in place to lauter.  One quick stir to set the bed, and 
>away I go.

I see the 10 min. rest at mashout more as a steep time for the specialty
grains (if added) and a mash stabilization stage. The bed probably is
effected some, but I would say most of the bed forming mechanics are driven
by grain crush and runnoff speed/rate.

Happy brewing,

Bob Jones
bjones at novax.llnl.gov



Return to table of contents


Date: 25 Mar 1994 08:55:31 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Cleaning Stainless steel

Hi Group,
Tim Lawson wrote about putting his stainless steel pot thru the self cleaning
cycle of his oven to remove wort stains and that afterward it had turned a
coppery color.

Unfortunatly that was probably not a good thing to do. The two types of
Stainless steel used for cookware, Austenitic and Ferritic, do not like high
heat.  Good brewpots e.g. Vollrath, and beer kegs are austenitic (300 series).
Ferritic stainless is usually used for flatware and utensiles because it is
cheaper. Ferritics are weakly magnetic while austenitics are not. If anyone has
purchased an inexpensive! stainless brewpot it is probably Ferritic. This is
not bad, its just not great. It is less acid neutral and may give a metallic
taste.

So, back to cleaning. Both of these types of stainless are prone to high
temperature embrittlement. Embrittlement occurs around 850F +/- 100F. I doubt
the self-cleaning cycle got that high, but FYI. The change in color is due to
oxidation of the surface, unfortunately high temperature oxidation tends to
penetrate along the grain boundaries and become permanent. There is an oxalic
acid based stainless steel cleanser in the supermarkets here called Kleen King.
It is very good at removing these oxides. This will work for restoring most of
the silvery finish inside and out. In the future though, I would recommend Easy
Off oven cleaner or the Kleen King, instead of the oven. Just rinse well. I
think using the pot as-is would definitly result in metallic tastes.

John Palmer metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P palmer#d#john at ssdgwy.mdc.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 11:48:46 EST
From: David Knight <dknight at ren.iterated.com>
Subject: Lagering in Bottles/Kegs


I posted this to rec.crafts.brewing several days ago and got no response,
so I thought I'd give it a shot on the HBD.

I've just bought a lagering fridge and Hunter AirStat so I'm starting to plan
my first "real" lager.  I was reading a few brief paragraphs in Miller's
TCHOHB on lagering, and he mentioned that most commercial brewers krausen/
prime the beer *BEFORE* lagering, whereas most homebrewers lager in a
carboy, prime, and then bottle/keg.  He mentioned that a closer approximation
to traditional lagering techniques would be to prime and bottle/keg the
beer after secondary fermentation, and then lager the already primed
bottles/kegs at low temperatures.

One advantage I can see to this method is that you wouldn't have the problem
of yeast going dormant by extended lagering since they would already have
done their work (re: carbonation) before lagering started.  I would probably
keep the bottles at fermentation temperature for several days after priming
before slowly reducing the temperature to ~35F for extended lagering.

Does anyone have any experience doing this?  If this is a bad idea I'd
appreciate hearing it, but I think I'll try it on my next batch (a
Bohemian Pilsner).


 -Dave Knight
dknight at ren.iterated.com

P.S.  I bottled my first all-grain batch (steam beer) last week and it
      tasted *AWESOME* at bottling time.  Can't wait to try it "for real"
      in another week or so.  No extract beer ever tasted that good!

Return to table of contents


Date:    Fri, 25 Mar 94 11:02 CST
From: XLPSJGN%LUCCPUA.BITNET at UICVM.UIC.EDU
Subject: Indiginous recipies in last Zymurgy

Dear Brewers,

In the last issue of Zymurgy, there was an article about indigenous
brews of the Himalayas and the Andes.  I am interested in trying my
hand at the Andian recipe for "chicha," which is a corn-based brew.
The recipe calls for the corn to be malted, cracked then brewed in a
fashion similar to brewing with barley.  The problem is (or are) that
I've never malted any grain before nor even brewed an all-grain beer
before.  Further, it is quite difficult to find grain corn that
hasn't been treated with a fungicide (?), especially in the city of
Chicago!  I've been to health food stores, and even called a few
feed stores, but all of their corn had already been treated.  So my
question is (or are) might someone in the Chicagoland area know where
I might get some of this type of corn.  (For that matter, might anyone
know if or where I can order this corn - not as an adjunct, but in
simple grain form?)  Finally, has anyone else tried brewing with
corn as a primary ingredient... Or tried malting it?  I'd greatly
appreciate any insights and or advice about this, and I will post
a summarization of the responses I receive for the interests of
other adventurous brewers.

Thanks, and Cheers!,

John Norton
(xlpsjgn at luccpua.it.luc.edu)

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 12:23 EDT
From: Alan_Marshall <AK200032 at Sol.YorkU.CA>
Subject: Proposal for Internet Beer Research Project

PROPOSAL:  The First (?) Internet Beer Research Project

<This is being posted in alt.beer, rec.crafts.brewing, rec.food.drink.
beer, the Homebrew Digest and the JudgeNet Digest>

The debate about porter vs stout has be going on intermitently for as
long as I've been around the net.  I suspect that we are as likely to
come up with the definitive answer as we are to dolving the mystery of
the 33 on the Rolling Rock bottles. 

Typically, I've thought of stouts as opaque, black ales, with a strong
roast/burnt malt bite and porters as softer flavoured cousins that
might be somewhat translucent, but with nearly as much body.  Yet I've
had several porters that had significantly more bite than draught
Guinness and stout that were softer than draught Guinness. 

I've never assumed stouts and porters to be substanially different in
OG, except when it comes to Imperial Stouts.  Yet, the porters (p 113)
and stouts (p 116) listed in Eckhardt would be rather good data for an
exercise in disciminant analysis, giving some support to a post seen 
recently.  However, Eckhardt has been known to be slightly
unconventional in his categorization of beer. 

I've read most of the folklore about the origins of the names stout 
and porter, and their history since.  Personally, I would like to take 
a more scientific/academic approach, rather than the urban.folklore 
speculations that are so prevalent on the net.  Therefore, I am 
proposing a collaborative research project to resolve the question of 
what constitutes stout vs porter.

Please feel free to post or email your comments.  To readers in the 
either of the Digests, I suggest we not carry on the submissions and 
discussions in either of these places.

Alan Marshall

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 09:33:55 pst
From: wyatt at Latitude.COM
Subject: Easy masher and Micro Masher

        What's the difference between an "Easy Masher" and a 
     "Micro-masher"?  I have been thinking about modifying one of my 
     brewpots for convience sake but I heard that the Easy-Masher was for 
     Brewpots less than 15 gallons.  Is the Micro-masher better?  Also 
     where can I buy One in the San Jose CA area? I thought about a false 
     bottom but I am not sure it is worth the hassle of having one made for 
     my pot.  Also anyone have any suggestions for insulating my Brewpot 
     when mashing?  I want to keep My system versatile as I tend to use a 
     variety of Mashing Techniques but I would like to make my system more 
     temperature stable so I don't have to use so much bottom heat (I 
     sometime's worry about destroying enzyme viability although I have 
     never had a problem). 

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 10:54:05 -0700
From: grow at barbados.mcae.stortek.com (Roger Grow)
Subject: Home-Grown CO2


In a recent HBD, Steve Scampini asks about CO2 from
a vinegar reaction and its drawbacks. One solution
is to use dry ice instead (dry ice beer? has Bud 
thought of that one yet?). Dry ice is available at
many major grocery stores and isn't very expensive.
Just drop some in your partially (or fully) filled
fermenter and besides just plain looking cool, it
will displace any oxygen as it melts. Amaze your
friends, scare your kids, or just just make your 
wife roll her eyes and shake her head, mumbling 
something about juvenile, neanderthal...              
   I dont know about the purity of dry ice (someone
posted something once about oil in welding grade
oxygen?), but I have never had any problems. Please
be careful, disclaimer, disclaimer, disclaimer, 
dry ice is awful chilly stuff and it could crack a
carboy under the right conditions. Hope this helps.

Roger H Grow (grow at barbados.mcae.stortek.com)

CAVE BOY LIVES and he brews his own beer!

And remember, you dont have to drink homebrew to
have a good time,                          
you can freeze the stuff and eat it on a stick!



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 11:33:33 -0700
From: Kelly Jones <k-jones at ee.utah.edu>
Subject: Al's comments

In HBD #1380, Algis R Korzonas said:

>"A perceived need [by the customer] is a need" someone once said.  Let's
>say, for example, a company convinced the homebrewing public that knowing
>the oil content of your hops will help you get more consistent dryhopped
>beers.  Despite the fact that to be useful one must also know what fraction
>of that oil is myrcene, companies that label oil content on their hops would
>be perceived as having a superior product, which would not necessarily be
>the case.
> 
>Al.
 
Another example:  One will find a certain type of person who finds it
necessary to post their opinions/remarks/comments/"help" to the Digest
almost every day, sometimes 2-3 times in a single day!  Howver, one
should not infer from the frequency of their posts that they are
experts at homebrewing, or that they generally know what they're
talking about.  Perhaps these posters hope that, by being highly
visible in this forum,  the homebrew supplies they sell will be
perceived as being of higher quality, which would not necessarily be
the case.

Kelly

Return to table of contents


Date: 24 Mar 94 16:39:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: PikePlacePA/RackingCaneSanit/FridgeMods/GlassAirlocks/AHAproceedings

Gordon writes:
>> it's either the Maris Otter malts or the yeast strain. The bottle we
>> had was brewed in Vermont. Does anyone have any comments, re the
>> chocolate flavor?
>> 
>Pike Place Pale Ale is from the Pike Place brewery at the Pike Place
>market in Seattle. I would be very supprised if it was brewed in
>Vermont. (Well maybe not too supprised, but I would be dissapointed) It
>is a very small brewery and if you stop by when they are brewing and
>show some interest they might invite you in to help out.  I have never
>noticed a chocolate flavor in the Pale.

Surprise!  It's brewed in Vermont and in Indianapolis as well as at the
origin, Seattle.  I've tasted only the Seattle and Indianapolis versions
and there are big differences.  No chocolate flavor, but the hop nose
in the Seattle version was just wonderful -- the Indianapolis version
nose was just okay.

********
Ron writes:
>How do you keep your racking tubes clean?  

and

>I just finished a 
>steam beer that tastes like Grandpa beer (I call it Grandpa beer because it 
>tastes like the beer my father-in-law used to make).  Has a sour/yeasty smell 
>and a cloudy appearance. 

The two questions ARE probably related.  I sanitize my racking tube by soaking
it in a carboy full of either Bleach+water or One-step+water.  Think about it.
When you put the racking tube in the carboy, you are actually wetting the
entire length that has potential for contacting the beer or the neck of the
carboy.  The sour/yeasty smell and cloudy appearance is probably due to a wild
yeast and possibly also a bacterial infection.  Once the tube gets scratched
up, just replace it.  Is saving $2.00 on a racking cane worth blowing $20 on
ingredients?

******
Bryan writes:
>What are other people's suggestions or experience with drilling a
>hole in the side of a refrigerator for a gas line?  What should I
>look out for?  Do you plug the hole with anything after inserting
>the gas line?

The obvious (not cutting into any lines or wires) is only one concern.
Another is long term.  The space between the inside and outside walls
of a fridge is filled with insulation.  The inside wall is generally
colder than the room.  Therefore, if you put a hole in the outside wall
of a fridge, make sure to seal it up well with bathtub caulk or something
similar so that room moisture is not attracted in through the hole,
eventually soaking the insulation and making your fridge less efficient
(not to mention the possibility of creating a breeding ground for moulds).

For this reason and the fact that I was not going to pour a pint every
day (fear of mould in the faucet) I chose to keep everything (including
the CO2 tank inside the fridge (yes, it's alright to keep the CO2 tank
inside the fridge).

******
Mike writes (regarding glass airlocks):

>Spencer Thomas suggested trying Korzonas if I got desperate, because Al is no
>longer in the mail order business.  So I was reluctant.
> 
>Jim Doyle had one made by his friendly neighborhood glass blower, and
>suggested I try my local junior college or phone book.
 
Yes, I'm hoping to someday restart the mailorder.  I'm glad you did find
some sources.  Forget the glass blower route -- I tried that and got
quotes you would not believe!  Incidentally, I would not turn down a
desperate homebrewer -- after all, I'm a homebrewer first and I'm doing
the store thing only because someday I'd like to do it for a living.

[Just for reference, the Sheaf & Vine price for a glass airlock is $5.95.]

******
Regarding AHA Conference Proceedings, you can get them from some HB supply
stores, but failing that, you can certainly buy them from the AHA.  Call
them at 303-447-0816 -- they take Visa.

Al.

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 14:53:14 -0500
From: de792 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul J. Schumacher)
Subject: BrewHaHa and other suppliers

noticed several references to BrewHaHa and other mail-order
outfits.  Could anyone post the address for this and other
home brewing supply sources?  
	Also, does anyone know of any good home brew supply
stores in the Cleveland-Akron area?  
                 ........THANKS.........................

###

Return to table of contents


Date:     Fri, 25 Mar 94 14:57 EST
From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:  5 Liter Mini Kegs

Well, I got a lot of responses from people regarding 5 Liter
minim-kegs.  I thought I'd summarize my findings.

1- You need 4 kegs to keg a five gallon batch
2- Same as a Cornelius, first tap all yeast, the rest all clear
3- Complete kit prices range from $49.95 to $65 depending where you go
4- The taps are availabel in plastic or all metal varieties.  The
   metal ones increase the cost of the setup by another $25-30.
5- The setup uses CO2 cartridges, like a pellet gun, and a keg will go
   through about 3-4 of these babies before you're done tapping.

Most people had a friend that had a mini-keg setup and their friend
loved it.  I did't get mail from anyone who actually owned one
themselves.  But, I'm convinced.  I'm stopping to get one on the way
home today.  I'll be kegging this weekend!

Andy Pastuszak
Philadelphia, PA

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 14:57:34 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: yeast q

     Is there any way (for a lay person)to tell if recovered yeast has 
     gone bad? 
     
     I've been using the washing technique (described in the 
     yeast.faq) successfully, but just recently had a recovered bottle 
     of yeast which I discovered was bad when I started to pour it 
     from the starter into the new wort. Foul, foul. Are there any 
     dependable signs of yeast-gone-bad (we're talking naked-eye, 
     here, no microscopes or spectrographs or whatever they are).

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 15:12:04 EST
From: pyroarts at aol.com
Subject: homebrew digest

How do I order?

THKS
PYROARTS

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 15:22:04 -0600 (CST)
From: Robert Schultz <Robert.Schultz at usask.ca>
Subject: Canadian Hop suppliers???

	Any brewers out there aware of hop growers/retailers in Canada
(preferably BC) that sell (or would be willing o part with) some rhizomes?

	I can't seem to find any greenhouses (locally) that have them, or even
wish to stock them.  Mail order from the US is an option, but shipping through
customs could be an unwanted experience (perishable goods and the like).

thanks.

Rob.
p.s. what is the 'going' price for a piece of rhizome?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Robert.Schultz at usask.ca, Senior Research Analyst, University of Saskatchewan ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ "I'm going off half-cocked? I'm going off half-cocked? ...                   ~
~  Well, Mother was right - You can't argue with a shotgun."     - Gary Larson ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 15:34 CST
From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Stuck Mash

 
 >From: mosher at sidmav01.us.dg.com (Steve Mosher)
 
 >I bought an EasyMasher(tm) from Jack, I have done my first 2 all-grains
 with it, and it is as its namesake suggests easy. My pts/per/lb for the first
 batch was 28. I somewhat followed Miller's mashing schedule, and I used
 9 lbs 2 row pale malt that was crushed with a motorized Corona. The problems
 I have encountered is that the Sparge will stick, my solution is
 to pick-up the hose, I attach the racking hose to the spigot, and
 it back-flushes the screen and then runs fine. Now I know that
 this is probably due to the Corona crush, but I can't afford a roller
 mill at this time, and the homebrew store crushes the grain the free.
 
 Several things come to mind here:
 
 First of all, we need a definition of a "stuck mash".  I would suggest that 
 what you described is simply clogged plumbing and as you point out the 
 resolution is simple and elegant.  The cause may or may not be the mill and 
 as I never have this problem, you may be right.
 
 It would be useful to know if the problem occurs with malt crushed by the 
 retailer and what sort of mill they are using.
 
 I think the recognized definition of a stuck mash is when the entire mash 
 becomes compacted and impermeable to the flow of sparge water and back 
 flushing all day will not fix it.   I have never "enjoyed" this experience 
 either but I suspect it is usually related to temperature or allowing the 
 water level to drop below the top of the grain.
 
 >The other problem is I need a quicker thermometer.
 
 I find the most practical to be dial/probe types.  I have a short piece of 
 copper wire wrapped around the probe under the dial and hooked over the lip 
 of the kettle and haven't come up with anything that works any better.  Lag 
 time is on the order of 15 seconds and this is easy to live with.
 
 >I think that reguardless of what method you chose to mash, the important
 part is to start mashing.....
 
 AMEN!
 
 js
 

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 16:40:28 EST
From: U-E68316-Scott Wisler <wisler_scott at ae.ge.com>
Subject: Plastics and Permiability

Thanks Al for the O2 permeability chart.

Qualitatively, this tells me how polyproplene ranks with respect to
other plastics.  I.e. much better than LDPE, but not as good as HDPE,
and some others.  It also gives some quantative information.

Rearrange slightly to look at units:
>Plastic                      
                                            10^-10  (cc-m)
                        O2 Permiability in          ---------
                                                 (sec-cm^2-cmHg)


This is telling me how much gas gets through (the cc-m part)
on a per unit time, per unit area basis at a given pressure (the
sec-cm^2-cmHg part) ..  cc = cubic centimeter, m=mole? (can you clarify?, 
I don't understand the numerator units.)  I would think that the cmHg
(Pressure, in centimeters of Mercury) is the difference in partial 
pressure of O2 across the plastic membrane.  In our case, this is
approximately equal to the partial pressure of O2 in the atmosphere, 15.2 
cmHg at sea level.

The O2 that gets through helps form an aldehyde (if I remember
correctly).  What is the taste threshold for this chemical?  

What I am driving towards here is this:  The taste threshold is a mass
fraction of the undesireable chemical.  Using the volume in the
fermenter, you can determine a bound for the tolerable mass of O2.
(Assuming that all the O2 that permeates through goes to aldehydes). 
Then using your fermenter geometry and the above permeability data, you
can determine the length of time you can leave your beer in a particular
plastic fermenter.  (I would include a healthy safety factor)

A couple observations:

As the fermenter gets bigger, the potential of a problem decreases. 
This is because volume increases like the radius squared, and area increases
like the radius.  There is more area for O2 to get through, but far more
volume to distribute the O2 over.

It is better to fill a plastic fermenter to capacity than to use it
half full.  A half full fermenter has the same area exposure to O2 as a
full one, but less volume to distribute the permeated O2 over.

Since a small fermenter (like my 2 gallon bottle) is a potential 
problem, there are some things that can be done.  I could enclose it in
something non-permeable.  Al, how bout selling me a couple square feet of
that proprietary plastic hop wrap?  :)


scott

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 13:42:00 PST
From: Timothy Sixberry <tsixber at msrapid.kla.com>
Subject: Grain Mills??


Hi Brewers,

I am ready to get a grain mill, and would appreciate any advice or 
suggestions as to what I should buy, build, or modify.  I would like it  to 
be motorized and to have rollers.

private mail OK.  Thanks in advance, Tim.( tsixber at msrapid.kla.com)

Return to table of contents


Date: 25 Mar 1994 14:29:14 PST
From: "KERRY.WILSON" <HWCEMC2.KWILSON at HW1.CAHWNET.GOV>
Subject: JUNK YARD SODA KEGS


I visted a junk yard and saw lots of Soda kegs in a pile.  Several of
them were in good condition.  Does cumulative knowledge out here have
any thoughts on using junk yard kegs?   And do you have any suggestions
on a cleaning procedure?  I am aware that I will need to replace all the
gaskets.  Is finding repalcement hardware difficult or just call one
of the places listed in previous digest and they have all.   Is this one
for the KEGGING FAQ?


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 15:53:55 -0800
From: Don Put <dput at csulb.edu>

Subject: Acid (not the mind expanding kind)

I'm using the water treatment spreadsheet that recently appeared in the
September/October issue of Brewing Techniques.  (Yes, I also incorporated
the corrections which appeared in the November/December issue :-)  Phosphoric
acid has been the tool of choice when I need to acidify my mash and sparge
water and I have been diluting it as per Miller's recommendations in NCJOHB.
However, the spreadsheet is set up to figure 0.1M concentrations and their
effects on the water in question.  So, what I need from you chemistry types
is a way to make a 0.1M solution from the concentrated solution.  The 
concentrated USP Phosphoric acid I use has the following specifications:

Formula Weight: 98.00
Molarity:  14.7
Specific Gravity:  1.7
Weight Percent: 85
Chemical Formula: H3PO4

I've been away from college chemistry WAY too long to figure this out and
I know the answer is relatively straightforward, but I don't want to just
guess at how to go about it.  You know, my original major was microbiology
and I took quite a few chem/physics/bio classes.  If I'd have known how much
some of it would have helped my in my present hobby, I would have paid more
attention to the boring lecturers I had (on second thought, nah). 

Thanks in advance. 

don
dput at csulb.edu






Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 10:11:41 EST
From: tmr at fjtld.att.com (Tom Romalewski +1 908 577 4411)
Subject: GROLSCH BOTTLES

Robert asks:
  
>   
> I'm getting ready to attempt my first batch of homebrew and I had a question
> about bottles.  My dad offered me a case of Grolsch bottles.  These bottles
> have a built-in clamp-down rubber-gasket cap affixed to the neck.  Are these
> things safe to use?  Any pointers for using these things?  Thanks.
>   
> Robert M. Zegarac
> OV:  ZEGARARM at OVMAIL1   Net: 53105 at ibmmail.com
>   
 

Take the Grolsch bottles!  I have been using them ever since I began
making homebrew and IMHO they are great.  No capper, no broken bottles,
they hold 16 oz., and they look neat.  I make up computer generated labels
for them, front and back, and glue them on with white Elmer's glue.  I
have over 400 of them.

Store the rubber gaskets separately in a plastic Zip-Lok bag.  They can be
boiled to sterilize them.  Replacements are available from most homebrew
suppliers.

When filling the bottles, I just flip the stopper with a gasket attached
over the mouth of the bottle, but don't lock the wire bail down.  This
allows the yeast to generate a small amount of CO2 to purge any air out
of the bottle neck.  After a while I lock all the filled bottles closed.

One 5 gallon batch of homebrew fills about 35, 16 oz. Grolsch bottles.
I always brew with 40 bottles ready to be filled.

If you want some more, try local bars that serve Grolsch in those bottles
or ask your dad to drink more Grolsch and give you the empties.


					Tom

Return to table of contents


Date: 25 Mar 1994 20:34:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Jay Lonner <8635660 at NESSIE.CC.WWU.EDU>
Subject: Patron saint of beer

    When I toured the Heilemann (ugh) brewery in Lacrosse, WI, a few years
    back, they mentioned that Gambrinus was the patron saint of beer.  They
    even have a statue of him erected in front of a building.  I've got (or
    used to have, they're probably lost) pictures of me and a friend bowing
    in front of the statue, paying homage.

    One cool thing about Heilemann is that they have those huge storage
    tanks painted up like a six-pack of Old Style...

    Hasta,

    Jay.

    P.S. Would the guy who asked about the address of the place that has
    cut-off acid-dipped kegs for sale email with the address, assuming he
    gets one?  I inadvertently deleted that stuff as well!

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jay Lonner           8635660 at nessie.cc.wwu.edu / jlonner at carleton.edu
    Bellingham, WA              "My right hand technique sucks." -- Slash
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 02:50:31 -0500
From: Kelvin Kapteyn <kelvink at mtu.edu>
Subject: mixing yeast strains/grains at mashout

Tim suggests that Alan's off flavors were from yeast bite.  This is a topic
I'm glad to see brought up, because I've done some rough scaling to compare
some microbrewery pitching rates with what homebrewers use.  On some
heavily pitched batches, it looks like they use the equivalent of 1 or 2 
cups of pure yeast (not slurry with yeast mixed in, but pure yeast) per 5
gallon batch.  Since this does not seem to produce yeast bite in their 
beers, I conclude that homebrewers tend to worry too much about yeast bite.
The trouble here is that I know things don't always scale directly from
micro sized batches to homebrew sizes.  Do any of the more experienced 
brewers out there have any numbers on when yeast bite might start to occur?
As it stands, I don't think the off flavors Alan talks about are from yeast
bite, it doesn't sound like you used that much.  I haven't thought of 
any other explanation either.   

Thanks Bob for the info on adding grains at mashout.  I don't have access
to your original article, but I wish I did.  Have you done side-by-side
comparisons between adding dark grains during the mash or at mashout?  Is
there a noticable difference?  FWIW, I've been adding grains at mashout
on some of my brews.  The jury's still out on whether it adds anything.
OTOH, I'll try anything for more maltiness in my beers.  

 -Kelvin            (kelvink at mtu.edu)

Return to table of contents

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1382, 03/26/94