FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Unmalted adjuncts - mash or boil (Conn Copas)
  Stuck Mash (Steve Mosher)
  RIMS info wanted (btalk)
  source for Perle hop rhizomes? (Patrick Casey)
  Re: H3PO4 dillutions (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist))
  Australian pressure barrels (Conn Copas)
  MASHING (Jack Schmidling)
  Co2 botteling (fudgemstr)
  Re: Mail Order sources (Brian J. Cecil)
  Widmer/Hale (Rick Gordon)
  Helpmail -s 'Helpmail -s 'Oh No, my yeast wont start! Help homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com < help Yeast problemsmail -s 'Oh No, my yeast wont start! Help homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com <help Yikesmail -s 'Oh No, my yeast wont start! Help homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com < help' homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com < help Yeast problemsmail -s 'Helpmail -s 'Oh No, my yeast wont start! Help homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com < help Yeast problemsmail -s 'Oh No, my yeast wont start! Help homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com <help Yikesmail -s 'Oh No, my yeast wont start! Help homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com < help' homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com < help Red Alertmail -s 'Helpmail -s 'Oh No, my yeast wont start! Help homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com < help Yeast problemsmail -s 'Oh No, my yeast wont start! Help homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com <help Yikesmail -s 'Oh No, my yeast wont start! Help homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com < help' homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com < help (elp' homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com)
  Red Alert! My yeast is weak. Help! (Jonathan Peakall)
  RE: Al's comments (HBD 1382) (Kelvin Kapteyn)
  JudgeNet (Wolfe)
  Is MiniKeg plastic-lined? (davidson)
  First Time Liquid Yeast User Problem... (603)429-8553 - BESSETTE at UICC.COM"
  Miller Reserve (Dennis Davison)
   (Jack & Dottie Alexander)
  Jet Carboy & Bottle Washer (semi-commercial note!) (COYOTE)
  Aerating wort (Jim Constantopoulos)
  chimay contracted out? (ROB THOMAS)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 26 Mar 94 11:54:06 GMT
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Unmalted adjuncts - mash or boil

Regarding the question of whether unmalted cereals need mashing: obviously they
do, if one wishes to convert the starch into fermentable sugars. On the other
hand, that is not the only reason for using adjuncts, eg, the use of oats to
provide proteins and glucans in stouts. If you can waste the extract, and live
with a starch haze, then in theory, you should just be able to boil the
cereals, provided that they are unhulled. This typically results in a large
amount of fluffy hot break, which I prefer not to ferment. Unfortunately for
extract brewers, I do seem to get better head retention when I mash the
adjuncts. Speculative reasons: (a) they contain proteins of the wrong size, and
need a protein rest to have a useful effect (b) converting the starch to sugar
somehow makes the rest of the cereal more soluble (c) lipids (oils) in the
cereal are trapped in the grain bed during sparging, instead of being passed on
into the boiler. It has been observed before that even flaked oats contain a
relatively large amount of lipid. On the other hand, look at what happens when
you make porridge, then extrapolate that effect to beer ...

Conn V Copas  C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk

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Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 08:28:36 -0500
From: mosher at sidmav01.us.dg.com (Steve Mosher)
Subject: Stuck Mash

  
>From Jack
  
>  Several things come to mind here:
>  
>  First of all, we need a definition of a "stuck mash".  I would suggest that 
>  what you described is simply clogged plumbing and as you point out the 
>  resolution is simple and elegant.  The cause may or may not be the mill and 
>  as I never have this problem, you may be right.
>

my believe is that the screen is clogged, and that by back flushing it clears
a path for the wort to flow. This "problem" is not a big deal. It is easily
rectified by just picking up the hose above the spigot. 

  
>  It would be useful to know if the problem occurs with malt crushed by the 
>  retailer and what sort of mill they are using.
>
The malt is milled by a motorized Corona at the retailer. for what its worth
I pour the malt into a 5 gallon bucket which flows into a wide funnel at
the bottom of the bucket, to the hopper of the corona. The retailer is
American Brewmaster in Raleigh, N.C.
  
>  I think the recognized definition of a stuck mash is when the entire mash 
>  becomes compacted and impermeable to the flow of sparge water and back 
>  flushing all day will not fix it.   I have never "enjoyed" this experience 
>  either but I suspect it is usually related to temperature or allowing the 
>  water level to drop below the top of the grain.
>  

This did not happen. Just by the action of draining the wort through the
grain causes the bed to compact, but I haven't not to stir the bed
to get the flow going.



   Steve Mosher          REPLY to mosher at apxtg03.apex.dg.com  
   919-387-5218

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Date: Sat, 26 Mar 94 08:45:31 EST
From: btalk at aol.com
Subject: RIMS info wanted

Is there a faq on RIMS? How about some feedback from RIMS builders/users
(email ok)  pertaining to cost, design dos and don'ts, and (of course, brew
quality- any contest winners?)
The gadgethead part of me is leaning in this direction ;)
Regards, Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton,NY

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Date: Sat, 26 Mar 94 10:12:38 EST
From: pacasey at lexmark.com (Patrick Casey)
Subject: source for Perle hop rhizomes?

Does anyone know of a source for Perle rhizomes?  I tried at
Alternative Beverage in NC and at The Malt Shop in Cascade, Wisconsin,
but neither had them (they did have plenty of other types, though).

Thanks!

 - Patrick

Patrick A. Casey      pacasey at lexmark.com

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Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 09:11:52 -0700 (MST)
From: walter at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist))
Subject: Re: H3PO4 dillutions

> 
> Formula Weight: 98.00
> Molarity:  14.7
> Specific Gravity:  1.7
> Weight Percent: 85
> Chemical Formula: H3PO4
> 
The formula to use for dillutions is quite simple.
	C1 * V1 = C2 * V2

where CX is concentration (M, or Molarity in this case)
and   VX is Volume; 1 is the initial case, 2 is the dilluted.

In your case :

(14.7M ) * V1 = (0.1M) * V2

or 

V2/V1 = 147

This means that you need to add 146 parts water to 1 part H3PO4

NOTE:  you don't add 147, as 1 part in the 147 is the acid

This formula will work with any concentration units, %, ppm, etc.

Good Day,

Brian


Brian J Walter            |Science, like nature, must also be tamed|  Relax,
Chemistry Graduate Student|with a view towards its preservation.   |Don't Worry
Colorado State University |Given the same state of integrity, it   |  Have A
walter at lamar.colostate.edu|will surely serve us well. -N. Peart    | Homebrew!

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Date: Sat, 26 Mar 94 18:36:13 GMT
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Australian pressure barrels

Any brewers from down-under listening? I am moving back next month, and
wondering whether to bring an extra British plastic pressure barrel with me.
Any e-mail on the state-of-the-art would be appreciated.

Conn V Copas  C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk

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Date: Sat, 26 Mar 94 22:14 CST
From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: MASHING

 
 >From: wyatt at Latitude.COM
 
 >     What's the difference between an "Easy Masher" and a
      "Micro-masher"? 
 
 The EM is designed around 1/8" plumbing for the homebrewer and the MM is 
 designed around 3/4" plumbing for microbrewer scale vessels.
 
 >Also anyone have any suggestions for insulating my Brewpot
 when mashing?  I want to keep My system versatile as I tend to use a
      variety of Mashing Techniques but I would like to make my system more
      temperature stable so I don't have to use so much bottom heat (I
      sometime's worry about destroying enzyme viability although I have
      never had a problem).
 
 I think you are creating a problem where none exists.  Compare what you are 
 considering with the absolute enzyme destruction in large proprotions of the 
 mash with decoction.  
 
 Furthermore, you only need as much bottom heat as is required to compensate 
 for the heat loss.  This requires only a very small flame and ocassional 
 stirring to redistribute the heat.  I would suggest that this is far less 
 hassle  that dealing with an insulated kettle.
 
 js
 

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Date: Sun, 27 Mar 94 01:24:54 EST
From: fudgemstr at aol.com
Subject: Co2 botteling

I haven't seen anyone talking about this and I did it for the first time
tonight and it worked so well that I thought I'd share it.

I have been kegging for a long time, but rescently I have moved and do not
(yet) have access to an extra refridgerator.  So I had to go back to
botteling.  This is what I did.  I boiled my priming sugar as usual, and
sterilized my bottles w/ a bleach solution as usual.  But I also sterilized
my keg.  I racked the wort into the keg along with the sugar, mixed it well,
caped it and used my co2 bottle to drive the wort into the bottles.  The
control of the flow was extremely easy, and I never had to worry about losing
the siphon, I also didn't have to use  a hose clamp.  I spilled so little
wort, that I think I will be botteling much more often.  Also, when the keg
blew off, there was less than half of a bottle left in it, so minimal waste. 
Hope this helps someone.

Fudge.

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Date: 26 Mar 94 22:29:51 ES
From: Brian J. Cecil <Brian_J.._Cecil at wecnotes.semcor.com>
Subject: Re: Mail Order sources

Paul Schumacher wrote in HBD 1382:

>noticed several references to BrewHaHa and other mail-order
>outfits.  Could anyone post the address for this and other
>home brewing supply sources?  

I don't have Brew ha ha's address, but I'm sure someone else will chime in with 
it.  I do have the phone numbers of two that I've used:

The Home Brewery    Alternative Beverages
Call 1-800-321-BREW   Call 1-800-365-BREW 

You can get a free catalog by calling the above numbers.

Cheers,

Brian
bcecil at wecnotes.semcor.com


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Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 09:24:03 -0800
From: ricklg at netcom.com (Rick Gordon)
Subject: Widmer/Hale

I'm trying to come up with a couple of all grain recipes for two beers 
that I really love - Hale's Wee Heavy and Widmer's Hefe Weisen.

Does anyone have any suggestions, hints, or sources of info?

For the Wee Heavy - I was interested in the spices used in particular. Of 
course the complete recipe would be great too.

The Hefe Weisen - I'm looking for a good suggestion on the yeast. Maybe 
they use a wheat yeast, but I'm inclined to think not.

Any help greatly appreciated.

_________________________________________________________________
Rick Gordon                                     ricklg at netcom.com
BigHorn Brewing                                 Richmond, Ca.
510.233.7718



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Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 09:31:31 -0800
From: belew at netcom.com (Jonathan Peakall)
Subject: Helpmail -s 'Helpmail -s 'Oh No, my yeast wont start! Help homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com < help Yeast problemsmail -s 'Oh No, my yeast wont start! Help homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com <help Yikesmail -s 'Oh No, my yeast wont start! Help homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com < help' homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com < help Yeast problemsmail -s 'Helpmail -s 'Oh No, my yeast wont start! Help homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com < help Yeast problemsmail -s 'Oh No, my yeast wont start! Help homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com <help Yikesmail -s 'Oh No, my yeast wont start! Help homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com < help' homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com < help Red Alertmail -s 'Helpmail -s 'Oh No, my yeast wont start! Help homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com < help Yeast problemsmail -s 'Oh No, my yeast wont start! Help homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com <help Yikesmail -s 'Oh No, my yeast wont start! Help homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com < help' homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com < help

Help!! I'm brewing my first three digit batch (100 gals), and the yeast 
won't start!! I am using "Red Star" brand ale\beer yeast. I made a wort
and pitched the yeast in at 90 degrees, and after four hours, no sign of a 
rise. If I can't get the little beasties going, I'm gonna have a lot of brew 
just sitting around. Should I put it all into carboys with ferment lockers, 
and wait until to-morrow to get different yeast, or should I pitch the 
yeast I have despite the lack of activity? I have never had this type of a 
lag in the yeast before.

Please reply as soon as you can! I'm in San Francisco, and the local time 
is 10:00 pm. 

Thanks!!!

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Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 09:43:24 -0800
From: belew at netcom.com (Jonathan Peakall)
Subject: Red Alert! My yeast is weak. Help!

Yahoo! I just brewed my biggest batch ever, 100 gal. Had a some problem
with the yeast, so I thought I'd see if anyone had some advice.
 
I used Red Star Ale yeast, pitching it into 4 cups of a malt\water
solution at 95 degrees following the instructions on the package. After 5
hours, there was no activity, so I made another starter, this time starting
at 90 degrees. After 4 hours, there was some activity, but not much. In a
panic I looked up the yeast info in the HBD archives, and saw that Red
Star has had problems in the past but was supposed to be better now.
Not having anymore yeast, and it being past midnight, I pitched it into
the wort and went to bed.
 
Next morning, no activity. Yikes!! In a full panic, I went to the local
home-brew store, and was assured that the yeast was OK, as the owner
said he has been using this yeast for a while now, with good result. I
bought a bunch more yeast, and this time made the starter at 85 degrees,
following advice from the home-brew store. This time it did take off.
 
Next morning, (today) there is a head on the beer, but only an inch. I am
used to having at least six inches or so. The beer has been sitting at 65
degrees for about eighteen hours now, since the final addition of yeast.
 
Here are the questions: Does Red Star Ale yeast suck, or was I unlucky?
Is 95 degrees too hot? I have always pitched it at 90 degrees. Should I
worry about infection due to the long lag time? Everything was super
sterilized, using sodium metabisulphite. I have never had a problem
with yeast before, out of 60+ batches.
 
I'm really nervous, with so much brew at stake. Ahy help or comments
would be greatly apprieciated.

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Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 13:47:06 -0500
From: Kelvin Kapteyn <kelvink at mtu.edu>
Subject: RE: Al's comments (HBD 1382)

In response to the flame by Kelly Jones in HBD 1382 about Al's comments on
the HBD, I think Al does a pretty good job overall.  I have learned a lot
from his posts so far.  I also like it that an experienced brewer takes
time to answer the endless newbie questions on the hbd.  (This is not
meant to discourage anyone new from posting a question.)  This would get
very tiring to me, and I give credit to anyone who can keep it up.  Also, 
in most cases he doesn't mention that he runs a supply store unless somebody 
else brings it up.  

Just my show of support for one of several (IMHO) good, knowledgable
contributors to the hbd.  I, for one, really appreciate the comments 
from the more experienced brewers out there.  


Kelvin Kapteyn         (kelvink at mtu.edu)

My opinions are my own.  If something is incorrect, or if you disagree with
it, that's ok.  Just point it out to me.  That's half of the reason I post
things in the first place.

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Date: 27 Mar 94 12:49 CST
From: Wolfe at act-12-po.act.org
Subject: JudgeNet

     What/where is JudgeNet?

Ed Wolfe
wolfe at act-12-po.act.org

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Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 15:29:03 -0500 (EST)
From: davidson at uvm-gen.EMBA.UVM.EDU
Subject: Is MiniKeg plastic-lined?

On 24 March, rprice at cbmse.nrl.navy.mil wrote:

>Subject:  Mini-Keg system
 (some deleted)
>Sterility is with (a BBrite) rinse and then the oven for a short blast to
>vaporise the water contained within.  Don't overdo or your kegs get a
>well browned look to them.  

Is this oven step wise?  I've only intermittently used my minikeg over
the year I've had it, but I vaguely recall someone/something mentioning that
these things had a thin plastic lining?  While it was mentioned in the
context of "Don't oxidize the plastic liner with Bleach" or the likes,
I would think that one could do some harm with broil-a-keg methods, too.

Anyone happen to have one of these that they're willing to cut in half,
put under various tests of time & temperature exposure, etc?  Mine are
still in good shape and I like them too much subject 'em to exploratory
surgery.

Oh, and would Mr. Price please pass along that Steak-n-Ale pie recipe.
Direct E-mail preferred.
- -- 
Darryl Davidson at emba.uvm.edu  	    Hydrogeological Modelling, UnivVermont
       Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket?!
h: 802-864-3647  w:802-656-4571 h':208-232-7770 i:davidson at emba.uvm.edu









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Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 17:21:49 EST
From: "Systems Analyst (603)429-8553 - BESSETTE at UICC.COM"
Subject: First Time Liquid Yeast User Problem...

I brewed the other night and used liquid yeast (Wyeast) for the first time. 
Well I bought Wyeast #1028 (London) and I "started" it the night before and 
by the time I used it it had blown up nicely. Being meticulous as I usually 
am while I brew, I did everything as I usually do. I'm still an extract 
brewer but an all-grain wanna-be. I have been told that liquid yeast could 
tremendously increase the quality of my brew. So since I am already very 
happy with my beer, at least at this extract level, I figured I would make 
the same exact batch of my amber ale and utilize liquid yeast instead. 
Everything was going smoothly until I opened the ballooned foil packet of 
Wyeast. It exploded all over the place. I think enough got into the wort 
though since it is bubbling. I made it a point to use a disinfected 
scissors and just snipped the corner of the packet. I had yeast on my 
cabinets in all directions. Can someone let me know how I should've opened 
this packet??? 

							Regards,
							Bob Bessette
							bessette at uicc.com

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Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 19:48:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Dennis Davison <exe01679 at char.vnet.net>
Subject: Miller Reserve

      Distinguished Micro-Brew info this not but it's info to say
 the least.

      Those interested here are a few facts on the Miller Reserve
 Products via Miller reps talking to the Beer Barons of Milwaukee
 Homebrew Club.

      Lager (New formula since last Sept.) approx. 15 IBU's and an
 original Frederick Miller Lager Yeast dating back to when good
 old Fred brought it to this country. Main malt is a 6-row, with
 some light crystal.

      Amber Ale  approx. 22 IBU's, a British Ale Yeast fermented
 at ale temps., 6-row malt, with some light crystal.

      Velvet Stout approx. 30 IBU's, same British Ale Yeast , 6
 row malt with black patent instead of Roasted Barley. Remember
 there labels say 100% Malt.

      Miller is not trying to market these products to the home
 brewer or those that love Micro Brewed beers. Their philosophy is
 that American tastes are changing, and the Reserve products are
 filling a void between the full flavored, higher gravity, and
 generally hoppier Micros and the regular swill that is drunk for
 drunk sake.

      All Reserve products are brewed in New York, but operations
 will be moved to New Jersey when they close the NY facility.
 Recipe formulation is done in a pilot brewery in Milwaukee which
 produces 10 or 20 gallon batches.

      None of the Reserve products are Pasteurized.

 PS Jim Ellingsen , I lost Your EMAIL Address Send it back to me.

 Dennis Davison  exe01679 at char.vnet.net    Exec-Pc, Milwaukee,Wi.

 Lambic, is That Anything Like The Lambada ?

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Date: 27 Mar 94 21:12:28 EST
From: Jack & Dottie Alexander <73521.2676 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject:  

homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com

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Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 20:46:41 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Jet Carboy & Bottle Washer (semi-commercial note!)

NOW, on a different note. A shameless plug for the makers of....(drumroll)
 
  J E T    C A R B O Y      A N D     B O T T L E    W A S H E R.
 
They win my "Cool Dudes" award of the week. My first washer, after much use
and abuse gave it's life in the line of duty. As stated in the lifetime 
warranty on the product:  If FOR ANY REASON...send it in, replace, pay shipg.
 
Well,  with ABSOLUTELY NO HASSLE they sent a replacement, cash for my shipping
an apology, and a NEW lifetime warranty, plus a promise to research the defect
 
 The poor thing was basically just rough handled enough that the metal valve
 thingy that sticks out gave way. You know, when you bend metal back and 
 forth, and back and forth, it breaks after a while.  But, no hassle.
 Prompt, complete attention. This is one satisfied customer.
 (Makes me even happier that I just found one at a thrift store for $.50!)
 
 I can't say I have no connection. I bought a couple of these things.
 I like them, I like the company, I'll recommend their product. 
 I even got money from them.  For my shipping, not for saying this.
 
 So, if you've thought about it?  Do it. It's a good toy for brewers.
 I'm not involved with the company, and do not share any profits with them
 other than profitting by an extremely useful, environmentally sound (water
 saving) product made by a company with excellent customer service.

Sorry for the commercial interlude. I just like to pass on GOOD news in the
marketing world when I come across it. SO: Do feel free to return your
bottle washers if they ever go bad on you. It's worth it.

PS: FWIW:  I've noticed that Williams carries a snap-on fitting for sinks for 
these puppies. Nothing against Williams (I like them and order grain often)-
BUT I found the same snap-type fitting at a hardware store for about half the
price.  Unfortunately for me...I have a dishwasher snap attachment which is not
compatible, so I'm stuck screwing anyway.  Too bad for me. 

     |\
   |\| \/|   \-\-\-  John (The Coyote) Wyllie   SLK6P at cc.usu.edu  -/-/-/
    \    |               
     ----        The Cosmic Coyote PicoBrewery- Logan/Smithfield Utah
 
 
 



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Date: Sun, 27 Mar 94 23:11:55 MST
From: Jim Constantopoulos <constanj at email.enmu.edu>
Subject: Aerating wort

I'm still a little (alright, a lot) confused on the issue of aerating the wort
 prior to fermentaion.  In the premier issue of "Fine Cooking" (Feb/March
 '94), David Ruggiero has an article in which he goes through the homebrewing
 process.  After explaining that the wort lacks oxygen necessary for the yeast
 to do its thing, he says "The surest way to introduce a sufficient amount of
 oxygen is to splash the wort around as you pour it into the fermenter."

 Would too much aeration produce nasty oxidation crud?  Does just transferring
 the wort to the fermenter aerate it enough (without having to splash it
 around)?

 Thanks in advance for help on this

 Jim Constantopoulos                    constanj at email.enmu.edu
 Eastern New Mexico University          It's not Texas, but it smells like it.


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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 08:59:06 +0200
From: thomasr at ezrz1.vmsmail.ethz.ch (ROB THOMAS)
Subject: chimay contracted out?

Hello all, 
I haven't written for a while, but despite this being not directly
brewing related (except for culturers?) I thought I'd run this by you.
I read on rec.food.drink.beer (the new one) about Chimay:
Chimay has been taken over by Interbrew (the brewers of Stella Artois) late
last year. There has been a noticeable increase in the amount of Chimay
available since then (especially USA ?). Therefore IMHO not all Chimay is
being brewed at the monastry. This was confirmed by a Belgian brewery contact
I have. Also same applies at Maredsous.
Steve
 ..
Anyone else heard this? Does this imply that the yeast may change,
(or even, heaven forbid, the brew?).
If it was april 1st I'd have a good laugh, but this is worrying.
Just a Britain is waking up and realising big brewers=poor beer, 
Belgium is begining to be raped.
:-(
Rob. Thomas.

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1383, 03/28/94