FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  BrewHaHa and other suppliers (bmfogarty)
  YA Copper Manifold Story (John DeCarlo              x7116          )
  Chimay/Interbrew (Alan_Marshall)
  MiniKegs (rprice)
  Grolsch Bottles (WKODAMA)
  Maple Sap Recipes? (Brian=Wilson)
  Becoming a Brewmaster?? (John Oberpriller)
  INTRODUCING the "GREAT ARIZONA BEER FESTIVAL" (Kip Damrow)
  Erratum (Ash Baker)
  Re: Newbie help (Brian J. Cecil)
  mini kegs, soda kegs, UV protection, rabid weasels ("Steven W. Smith")
  Re: Regulators for Kegging (Dion Hollenbeck)
  HOPS: Pests, Rootone-hormone, Horses (COYOTE)
  Re: Red Star starters (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Re: REC.CRAFTS.BREWING??? (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Chimay contract brewing (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Homebrew Digest #1383 (March 2 (mike.keller)
  LACTOBACILLUS SOURCE (david.moeny)
  Wort Chiller and Cold Break ??? (Frank Judge)
  us open in nc (Mark Bunster)
  SulphateChiller/long?ferment/UVprotection/HDMmalts/cloudy (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Lack of Carbonation in lagers (Mark Hogle)
  Low ETOH beers (Jim Grady)
  Re: Red Star starters (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  SanitizingKegs/2-week Primary/teflon (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  The Brews Paper (mmankin at ieee.org)" <mmankin at ieeemem.ieee.org>
  ruining stainless steel (lawson)
  HOPS (DUSTHOMP)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 03:10:33 EST
From: bmfogarty at aol.com
Subject:  BrewHaHa and other suppliers

Brew Ha Ha, Ltd is in Pottstown, Pa 19464 at 209 High Street. Their phone
number is 800 243 2620. I drive about 50 miles from my home in NJ to their
store. It is one of the best stocked stores I know of, and Randy and his wife
are very knowledgable in the foibles of homebrewing. They do mail order and
are reasonable in price too. I personally am glad I found them. They have
helped me concoct many a strange recipe and always provided good advice. I
have just sent his name in to AOL for a trial membership, so he should be on
the net one of these days.

Standard Disclaimer: They wouldn't let me buy stock, so I am just a satisfied
customer. 

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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 08:29:42 EST
From: John DeCarlo x7116 <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: YA Copper Manifold Story

Hey, even though I am mechanically challenged, I just went to the 
hardware store and bought copper tubing that is already coiled and in a 
box.  I hacksawed about twenty slots, carefully bent enough of one end 
to reach out of the mashtun/lautertun (big pot), and I was done.  Just 
set the flat coil at the bottom of the pot and you can lauter at
will after mashout.  Hey, if *I* can do it, ...

John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo at mitre.org


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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 09:36 EDT
From: Alan_Marshall <AK200032 at Sol.YorkU.CA>
Subject: Chimay/Interbrew

In HBD #1384 (March 29, 1994), korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) 
writes:

A> Rob writes (quoting Steve):
A> > Chimay has been taken over by Interbrew (the brewers of Stella Artois)
A> > late last year. There has been a noticeable increase in the amount of
A> > Chimay available since then (especially USA ?). Therefore IMHO not all
A> > Chimay is being brewed at the monastry. This was confirmed by a
A> > Belgian brewery contact I have. Also same applies at Maredsous. 
A> 
A> I'm sure this is a cruel joke.  Indeed, Chimay White (White cap and
A> Cinq Cents) has been contract brewed for a while now, but by *another
A> Trappist brewery* (Rochefort, I believe).  I have noticed a similarity
A> between Chimay and Rochefort 10 and would not be surprised if they
A> used the same yeast.  I can't see Chimay being taken over by
A> Interbrew.  Even more disturbing would be if Maredsous was taken over
A> by Interbrew -- they are the brewers of Duvel as well as the four
A> Maredsous beers. 

No joke, Al.  There has been some discussion of this in alt.beer and 
rec.food.drink.beer.  It started when I wrote a parody with Labatt's 
taking over Chimay, and applying its "expertise" in product 
development (Chimay Light, Chimay Dry, Chimay Ice, etc.).  Somebody 
posted that my parody has some basis in truth, as Interbrew had taken 
over Chimay.  At last check, we still had not resolved exactly what 
Interbrew had taken over.

- --
- -- Alan Marshall -- AK200032 at SOL.YORKU.CA  (York University, Toronto, Canada)

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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 09:32:07 -0500
From: rprice at cbmse.nrl.navy.mil
Subject:  MiniKegs

Following several more comments in the HBD relating to the use of
minikegs and the problems with the Beer King CO2 taps.  

1 Mine leaked and caused a loss of pressure.  The solution was to
tighten the regulator portion into the tap.  It came loose and simply pushes
against a pin and spring which is the "regulator", second the inner
portion of the threaded housing also is threaded and has a hex nut
screwed into it which holds the plastic diaphram and the needle for the
cartridge.  
Un screw the inner locking ring, remove the plastic diaphram, and then
add a thin coating of RTV (food grade to make a softer seal. 
Reassemble, and you should have reduced the leakage.  Don't use the
large Co2 cylinders, use the small ones.  You should sugar or malt prime
your beer to bring it into condition and then use the minimum of co2 to
dispense.  I usually get by with either 1 or 2 per can.

Our plastic brew king failed in the area of the threads on the plastic
housing.  Don't waste time with the cheap plastic unit.  It isn't worth the
power to blow it straight up.  Buy the metallic one.  

In a note someone asked about adapting a regular regulator to the keg. 
The reason I wanted to use the Beer King system was to keep the bottle
and mess out of the reefer and kitchen to prevent a revolt by the other
half who rejects so much hardware taking up shelf space.  (real
shelfwidth vs virtual  bandwith??)  hense the kegs.  However, since the
inner part of the tap is threaded for the locking ring, I'll bet you could do a
plummers nightmare adaptor based on that feature.

Andy had trouble with the the bungs.  When you sterilize them with
bioling water, leave em wet,  things always slide in with a little lubricaiton
and water seems to work.  I guess I haven't had the problem and it may
be your batch of seals.  The real kicker as far as I am concerned is
getting the little hard plastic plug out of the can easily.  The family always
gets a real laugh at my antics in trying to remove them, then the wife
comes over and somehow just pops em right out. 

The mini kegs aren't perfect, but are quite a bit easier than bottles, and
you can simply pop open the fridge and tap off a pint when the mood
strikes.  

It has also occured to me that it would take almost no effort to design a
better tap system.  Somehow I felt the German Beer King tap would be
good,  given the "superior engineering of German Products and their love
of beer".  Shows you can never tell.  Any superior beer loving engineers
out there have a superior solution to pumping suds out of mini kegs ??

How about nitrogen pressure for stouts for that creamy mouth feel ??

'ale to the Can

12# Pale Malt (Crisp Marris Otter or M&F)
1/2# 60L Xtal
1/2# Flaked Maze
1/2# Brown Sugar

In at 158F for 60 min.
Run off and sparge for a total yeild of 22 L
OG 1.060+++
Boil for 60 min. 
10 min in add 2 oz. Challenger, Targett or Northern Brewer
55 min in add 1 oz. Goldings, 1 oz. Willamette 
Steep 5 min.
Chill by running through filter and heat exchanger into primary
0.5 oz. Willamette in Primary
Pitch with Ale Yeast (your choice).....

5 days Primary
15 days secondary under airlock
Prime with invert syrup in can, 1/2 cup divided to 4 cans.
Mini-Keg and condition 5 days.
Chill to 50F

Sit down when you drink this stuff.






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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 10:25:21 -0500
From: WKODAMA at aba.com
Subject:  Grolsch Bottles

> swingtops. I use the rubber gaskets twice. Just flip them  over
> for the next batch. Discard and replace every other batch. I

I don't think it's necessary to discard and replace *every other*
batch.  Those gaskets are fairly hardy.  I just give them the old
visual inspection.  If they're not all mashed out (yes, pun
intended) then I just keep reusing them.

Wesman
wkodama at aba.com


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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 10:53:25 EST
From: Brian=Wilson%Eng%Banyan at hippo.banyan.com
Subject: Maple Sap Recipes?

Hello Brewers,

Over the weekend a friend of mine, who wants to start brewing, stopped by
and presented me with two gallons of maple sap to make a beer with.  He
bought it to boil down into syrup and the woman at the farm told him others
had been in to buy it for brewing.  He thought it would be a great thing for
us to try, etc...  So, can some of you brewers that have worked with sap
please pass along a recipe?  I have checked that catsmeow but all of its
maple recipes call for syrup.

						thanx - brian
						brian at banyan.com



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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 17:08:03 MET DST
From: John Oberpriller <s12int::l375bbk at alcatel.be>
Subject: Becoming a Brewmaster??

How does one become a brewmaster in the US and what does it mean??

In Germany, you can attend a 5 year university program to become a brewmaster's 
apprentice.  Then after years of practical brewing you may become a brewmaster.
Also, the position of brewmaster is a high status position.

Just curious.  Posts or private email ok.

John Oberpriller
L375bbk%s12int.dnet at alcbel.be

P.S.  Was Sam Adams a Brewer Patriot or a drunken soldier?

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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 07:46:50 PST
From: Kip Damrow <hpfcla.fc.hp.com!ohio!kdamrow>
Subject: INTRODUCING the "GREAT ARIZONA BEER FESTIVAL"

FYI for fellow craft beer lovers in the Southwest.

The 1st Annual "Great Arizona Beer Festival" will be held
on April 23 & 24, at beautiful Scottsdale Stadium.
30 Breweries from the western U.S. wil be participating.

Among those in attendance:
all Arizona brewpubs 
Anchor Brewing (CA)
Sierra Nevada (CA)
San Juan Brewing (CO)
Holy Cow Casino, Brewery (NV)
Rogue brewing (OR)
Humbolt Brewing (CA)
Spanish Peaks (MT)
Carver Brewing (CO)
Boulder Brewing (CO)

There will also be 3 stages for live music.
For more info contact Bill Gerrard at 
Coyotee Springs Brewpub, in Phoenix. Or contact me.

Kip Damrow
Irvine, CA

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Date:         Tue, 29 Mar 94 11:01:21 EST
From: Ash Baker <3AVHB at QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
Subject:      Erratum

Sorry about the waste of bandwidth, but I just thought I'd say that I store
my beers at between 45 and 50 FAHRENHEIT.  Oops.  Typo.  I may be a chowder-
head, but I'm not so much of a chowderhead as to store my beers at 50 C.  So --
given this new info, and with sincere apologies for the waste of time on
the part of all those who said "Keep the beer cold, bonehead" -- can anyone
help?

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Date: 29 Mar 94  8:17:27 ES
From: Brian J. Cecil <Brian_J.._Cecil at wecnotes.semcor.com>
Subject: Re: Newbie help

Jack Boatman wrote:

>Blow-off was done in about another 24 hrs. Installled an S-lock. Was getting
>about 40 bubles/minute. Temperature about 72 F.

>Temperature dropped to about 68 F. and bubble rate dropped to about 1 or 2 per
>minute. I put together a light bulb/box arrangment and got the temperature back
>up to around 73 F. Bubbles now about 1 per 45 seconds.

>The carbouy is pretty cloudy although it looks like maybe an eighth or quareter
>inch of the top edge has cleared.

>Questions:

>What its a reasonable bubble rate?

>Should I try to keep it warm in order to keep the bubble rate up?

>Shouldn't it start to clear at the top and then progress to the bottom by the
>time it's done?

>How long should I wait before deciding it's done (no 0SG reading)? or doing 
>something else (like re-racking or pitching or scrapping....)


Jack, you're worrying needlessly.  It sounds like the brew has almost finished 
fermenting.  As far as maintaining the temperature at 74 degrees I think is not 
necessary.  The thing you should do now is wait till u see no more bubbles in 
your airlock, then take a specific gravity reading.  Then wait another day or 
two and take another reading.  If the reading hasn't changed, then you got 
beer!  It is time to bottle.

Hoppy Brewing

Brian Cecil
bcecil at wecnotes.semcor.com


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Date: 29 Mar 1994 09:18:30 -0700 (MST)
From: "Steven W. Smith" <SMITH_S at gc.maricopa.edu>
Subject: mini kegs, soda kegs, UV protection, rabid weasels

  This weekend when I visited my favorite supply shop I asked if he planned to 
start carrying the 5 liter mini kegs.  Good ol' Bruce claims (with no source 
sited) that they have a nasty habit of exploding, and that there's a lawsuit 
underway in Germany.  He further claims that in the interim they are being 
shipped with hand-powered air pumps, making them useless for moi.  Can anyone 
confirm or deny any part of this story?

  At this same supplier I can purchase a 5lb CO2 tank, a 2-line regulator and 1 
ball lock soda keg (or pin lock) around the neighborhood of $187, tax included. 
Additional pressure tested soda kegs are $25 ea.  Does that sound like a 
fairly reasonable price?

  Finally, someone asked about protecting their pride and joy from UV rays.  My 
solution was to transform a set of heedious (Southwestern design) pillow cases 
into carboy cosies by cutting off part of 1 corner.

  Whelp, I think I oughtta work for awhile now :-)
  _,_/|
  \o.O;   Steven W. Smith, Programmer/Analyst
 =(___)=  Glendale Community College, Glendale Az. USA
    U     smith_s at gc.maricopa.edu
          Mah'-ee huv'-erk-raft iz fuhl ov ee'-ulz

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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 08:21:20 PST
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Regulators for Kegging

>>>>> "Andy" == GNT TOX <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU> writes:

Andy> Question about regulators for kegging.  We have this regulator sitting
Andy> here at work.  It was used to dispense argon and is now sitting around
Andy> doing nothing.  It's a rather big one, made for a 2o pound tank.  Can
Andy> it be used to keg homebrew?

Andy> Andy Pastuszak

NO, NO, NO.  CO2 in the tank is mostly a liquid with a layer of gas on
top of it in the "headspace" of the cylinder.  As such, it is at a
pressure of from 600 to 800 psi depending on ambient temperature.
Argon, like oxygen and other "normal" gases is just compressed into
the cylinder and does not become liquid.  Therefore, you are dealing
with somewhere in the range of 2000 to 3000 psi.  

Fortunately, trying to use an argon regulator for CO2 will probably
just result in it not working because there is not enough pressure to
open the high pressure circuit.  However, if you ever went the other
way around and tried to use a CO2 regulator on an argon or oxygen
tank, better have your life/health insurance paid up.

Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 09:15:40 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: HOPS: Pests, Rootone-hormone, Horses

i'm way behind in HBD's so bear with me. (beer with me?)
Somehow- buying a house has kept me from my e-mail for a few days!
 
Hops is the topic of the day. (for me that is!)
 
 
Francisco Jones  in%"fjones at cs.uml.edu"
asked about:  Spider mites on hops
 
 *One of the weakest points in Beach's book IMHO. 
 
 Here's a couple of ideas:
  (I've suffered the same problem. Red-spider attacks.
 Really seemed to weaken the plants!) 
 
1.  Physically- rub the leaves to squish the little buggers.
Hard to keep up with them, and fondling the plants in not a good thing,
since eccessive handling can stunt plants. (wound responses)
 
2. Murphy's Oil Soap.  Furniture polish. Completely organic.
A general green-thumbers approach to resisting pest infestations.
Mix some (?) with water, and apply with a sprayer, several times!
Be sure to get the underside of the leaves. It won't do any harm to 
humans, and shouldn't affect leaves. You could wash w/ water before 
harvesting if you spray cones.
 
I'd be inclined to go for early treatments before flowering. Get them well
grown and protected, then just let them race to the finish after cone dvpmt.

There are "organic" garden spray and solution type "pest killers" which are
supposed to be ok for veggies and such.  I'd say (again) go ahead and use
them before flowering. Most recommend something like 7 days after application
before harvest. Ortho has an "orgthoganic" "Insecticidal Soap" which I tried.
There are harsher chemical approaches which may be acceptable. I forget the
name of the active ingredient. Some big scientific name.  

My suggestion would be to start early and prevent their arrival. Sour the 
leaves with soaps after the shoots are established, and spray maybe weekly.
Then stop applications once the flower buds develop, and hope the hops can
outrun the buggers.  It's them damned japanese beetles in cones which piss
me off. I like the bigger spiders infesting my vines (not MITES) for eating
other stuff.  Ladybugs are an excellent way to treat for aphids. Plan early!
BUT: I'd prefer if all the bugs would choose to leave once the cones hit the
drying rack.  But I found they needed a bit of nudging- shake em up baby.

***
John Fix asked about:

Rootone on Rhizomes. (10 times fast)

Rootone is essentially cytokinin (if I've got my phytohormones straight today!)
And promotes root development at the growing tip.  The thing with a rhizome
is that you want it to develop shoots and roots. If you dip the whole plant
you stand a chance of interfering with shoot development.  Gravity also
plays a factor, so does light, so do lots of things! It's complex. Trust me!
Plants are NOT a simple form of life! (higher plants at least)

SO... options: 
 
If planting the rhizome horizontally you could apply rooting
powder, or solution dip to the smaller roots extending down from the main
stem. Do not put it on the main stem, or any shoot, or shoot nodes which are
visible.  
 
If you are planting vertically you can dip the bottom end of the rhizome,
and any secondary roots at the lower end. Again, keep it away from shoots.
 
But:  Why bother?  This phytohormone is produced BY the plant, and moves from
the sprouting tip to the root tip, where is accumulates and initiates root
development from meristematic tissues (undifferentiated).  Gravity and sunlight
will also affect tissue development and enhance the directional growth and
differentiation processes.  Stems of plants are actually oriented in a "top"
and "bottom" type of fashion. This can be altered (switched directions), but
would result in a delay in development processes.  The amount of cytokinin
needed to initiate these processes (and auxin) is FAR less than the
concentration found in rootone. Basically it's an overkill product, especially
for something like rhizomes. If you got upper stem, that may be a little dif.
 
I'd say- if you're gonna use it, use it right. Roots only. 
I'd say a good dump of fertilizer (punny eh?) in you hop mound will do more
toward healthy rapid growth. And good watering of course! Lots o' sunshine!!
 
*One Hopheads opinion. Be it known: I took a plant growth and regulation class
from which I dug this out of my gooey grey matter. I don't have my text book
handy to check accuracy right now, so take it FWIW. I did get a good grade in
the class, so I musta' known it once (like the night before the final???)
***
 
Hops and Horses (20 times fast! :)
  
The Coyote Brewery is MOVING.  Am in the process of purchasing a house in
Smithfield, 10 minutes north of Logan, still in Utah.
 
I have the joy of a large yard (.4 acre!) with apple trees (can you say 
CIDER!!)  and a barn type building/shed in the way back.
 
I plan to "plant" some posts and do the "May Pole" stringing of a few
types of hops. (several strings down to several mounds of one type of hop
per pole. Kinda a star pattern if you will)
 
 I will probably also plant some against the shed (after I take out the
wasps nests!).  Problem is, the southern side of the shed faces the 
neighbors yards. They have horses. The horses have already eaten the wood
off the back of the shed. I don't think I need to ask if they would eat my
tasty- asparagus like - hop shoots! Now, can I install a fence firm enough to
resist the horse attack!  Maybe a little electrical help!!!
Is there a product for horses like the Puppy-off lawn treatment to keep dogs
from pooping on your lawn?
 
The good news is, I can probably come across some cow/horse manure to add
to my grain- compost pile pretty easy in the new neighborhood. :) Happy Hops.
 
I may even put up a trellis type awning somewhere in the yard and grown some
for decorative purposes (that was a cool article) along a walkway.
 
Now I get to BUILD my brewing system into a house!
 
I'm going to indulge myself now with a gently stroke of my ego. 
Fast forward if you find this offensive in public! 
(someone just asked me about brewpubs in utah, so I had already typed it! :)

Logan: The Cosmic Coyote PicoBrewery.  (NOTE: Tongue in Cheek! This ain't no
public establishment, it's my basement!!! Ok, get it! -there's been confusion)

 A broad variety of styles and experimental efforts. Pale ales, to bocks, to
hoppy ambers, to rye, porter and stouts.  Stone ground malts, fresh cone hops,
house-cultured yeast, in season- garden fresh aroma hops of 4 varieties.
The more extravagant efforts reach as far a spiced beers, even jalapeno, 
fruit beers of all sorts and colors, seasonal efforts- X-mas ales, Green 
Wheat Beers, Pumpkin ales, summer swillers....and a whole lot more.
 
Also available: Meads and Ciders of varying colors and degrees.
 
The brewery will soon be relocating to Smithfield Utah (10 min.s north)
and will take with it the Coyote- Cache Cooker, and the 4 tap keg system.
Future upgrades will include a newer- bigger hop garden, a filtering system
to work hand- in hand with the counter pressure filler, a new boiler lautering
system (converted keg), a gravity feed tiered brewing system, maybe even RIMS,
a fridge controller for summer lagering, and who knows what else!!!!
 
The new location has Garage access, with laundry plumbing faucets (sink to
be added). Gas line is just inside the laundry room, but the propane will
work fine for the stove for now.  There is a basement for winter lagering,
and cool brew storage (LOTS of shelves built in, for canning storage or cases!)
 
With the garden space the herb garden will soon be moved/planted. 
Hops with be moved whenever I can get around to it. 
Wine grapes will be planted anytime soon too.
 
          This is gonna be cool. Yeah, heh heh, heheh.
 
     |\
   |\| \/|   \-\-\-  John (The Coyote) Wyllie   SLK6P at cc.usu.edu  -/-/-/
    \    |               
     ----        The Cosmic Coyote PicoBrewery- Logan/Smithfield Utah
 
 
 


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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 08:29:56 PST
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Red Star starters

>>>>> "Algis" == Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583 <korz at iepubj.att.com> writes:

Algis> Jonathan writes:
>> Yahoo! I just brewed my biggest batch ever, 100 gal. Had a some problem
Algis> <snip>
>> I used Red Star Ale yeast, pitching it into 4 cups of a malt\water
>> solution at 95 degrees following the instructions on the package. After 5
>> hours, there was no activity, so I made another starter, this time starting
>> at 90 degrees. After 4 hours, there was some activity, but not much. In a
Algis> <snip>
>> Next morning, no activity. Yikes!! In a full panic, I went to the local
 
Algis> First of all, despite what the package might say, you should
Algis> rehydrate the yeast in pure, sanitary water and not wort.  The
Algis> additional osmotic pressure of the wort inhibits the water
Algis> absorption and slows down the yeast.  Secondly, if you used
Algis> only one package of Red Star in a 100 gallon batch, you
Algis> probably underpitched more than brewers who use Wyeast without
Algis> a starter in their 5-gallon batches.  If I were you, I would
Algis> have use 10 to 20 packages of yeast in a 1-gallon jug of
Algis> boiled-then-chilled-to-100F water.  The beer will probably turn
Algis> out just fine, but next time you'll rest easier if you use more
Algis> yeast.

I agree completely with Algis about using water to rehydrate yeast,
but I go one step further.  After rehydration is completed and the
slurry cooled to 80F, I pitch it into a 1020 mini-wort about 4 hours
before I will be ready to pitch into my batch of wort.  By the time I
am ready to pitch, the yeast have begun vigorous fermentation and I
get fermentation started in my wort within 2 hours at the longest.
The bottom line is to have a sufficient amount of active yeast cells
to pitch, and the mini-wort gets them multiplying before you pitch
into your 5 gal of wort.

BTW, occasionally I help brew at a local brewpub and they use 1 pound
of dry yeast in 500 gal. of beer.

Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 08:15:28 PST
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: REC.CRAFTS.BREWING???

>>>>> "Bob" == btalk  <btalk at aol.com> writes:

Bob> I've seen this mentioned a number of times on the HBD, and have
Bob> always wondered what it was . How does it compare /contrast to
Bob> the HBD?  Subscription info? Is it worthwhile subscribing to if I
Bob> already get the HBD?

Bob> Later, BOb Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY

r.c.b. is a Usenet news group, not a mailing list like the HBD.
Much of the same info goes on there, as well as the HBD is gated into
r.c.b. so things in HBD get discussed in r.c.b. as well.  If your
connectivity provider is AOL, then you have to get them to receive
Usenet news groups and the rec.* section in particular.  If they
don't, then you cannot get it on your own by "subscribing" like you
can to HBD.

I get value from both groups and would not want to lose the ability to
read either of them, however, IMHO, there is a bit more and better
info in r.c.b.

dion

Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California


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Date: 29 Mar 94 16:49:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Chimay contract brewing

Phil Seitz sent me private email about this and said that he heard
that the contract brewing was only temporary.  He also pointed out
that he had heard it was the Shaapskooi Trappist Brewery in the
Netherlands that was doing the contract work.  It appears that all
this information is very fuzzy and just picked up as rumours.  In
a country where beer is such an important facet of life, I'll bet
that rumours abound.

Al.

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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 03:59:00 BST
From: mike.keller at genie.geis.com
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1383 (March 2

 
Ed Wolfe asks "What/where is JudgeNet?"
 
 
 > THE BEER JUDGE DIGEST
 >
 >  Chuck Cox <chuck at synchro.com>, digest administrator
 >  Michael Hall <hall at lanl.gov>, archive administrator
 >
 >       digest submissions to judge at synchro.com
 >      administrative requests to judge-request@ synchro.com
 >    send rank updates to the administrative address
 >  messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored
 >
 > FTP archive information in /pub/judge/README on cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov
 >
 >    Sponsored by SynchroSystems and the Riverside Garage & Brewery
 >
 
There you go. Subscribe to the "administrative requests" address.
 
 mike.keller at genie.geis.com
 manager, zymurgy roundtable
 

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Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 23:40:42 
From: david.moeny at bcsinfo.bcs.org
Subject: LACTOBACILLUS SOURCE


A quick reply to all those looking high and low for a lactobacillus source. 
Most pharmacies sell a product called Lactinex.  It is a tablet containing
viable Lactobacillus acidophilus and Lactobacillus bulgaricus.  Hope this
helps.

David
 

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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 13:27:23 EST
From: Frank Judge <fjudge at hpwadfb.wal.hp.com>
Subject: Wort Chiller and Cold Break ???


Want to get your collected wisdom on wort chillers and their effect on 
cold break. I created a wort chiller last night out of 3/8"copper tubing 
and used it to cool a Belgian Ale I've brewed several times now.  The 
chiller is the immersion type, where I placed it in the brew kettle 
and ran cold water through the chiller.  It cooled the wort to 88F in 
about ten minutes - I was psyched !!!  When I poured the wort into the 
primary, I noticed the normal chunks of cold break material at the 
bottom of the brew pot were missing.  A lot of finer particles were 
there (which I did not put into the primary), but I'm used to the 
chunks of stuff.  Before the wort chiller I used Mother Nature's 
resources by filling a large container with snow (lots this winter 
in MA) and water and immersed the brew pot in it.  This method cooled
the wort in about 15 minutes, and also produced the chunks of cold 
break for the same recipe.  

Any ideas/experience with wort chillers producing/not producing large 
amounts of cold break?  Is this normal, or is there a better way to 
use the wort chiller?

Thanks in advance,
 
Frank      fjudge at wal.hp.com




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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 13:49:16 EST
From: mbunster at hibbs.vcu.edu (Mark Bunster)
Subject: us open in nc

Does anyone have any entry information for the US Open Homebrew competition
in North Carolina this spring? Please email to the address below, or post
publicly. Thanks!

Oh--went to the DC Beer Expo this weekend at Phillip's on the waterfront.
Good selection of East Coast beers. Had the opp. to try Velevt Stout for the
first time. Not too bad--a little crisper than perhaps a stout should be,
more along porter lines. Not an award winner, but perfectly fine for a
megabrew, and for the price.
Other standout beers: Wit--wonderful orange and coriander embellishment!
Grant's Weizen--excellent example of the style. Great nose.
Potowmack Ale (Chantilly Va)--very smoothly crafted. Look for this to be
bottled soon...
Blue Ridge Amber--another new brew, from Fredrick MD. Golden (Pils w/ Saaz
and Cascade) also very good.
- -- 
Mark Bunster                      |I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Survey Research Lab--VCU          |
Richmond, VA 23284                |Adam Smith's invisible hand
mbunster at hibbs.vcu.edu            |has got you by the throat...  
(804) 367-8813/353-1731           |                 Trotsky Icepick

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Date: 29 Mar 94 19:34:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: SulphateChiller/long?ferment/UVprotection/HDMmalts/cloudy

Brett writes:
>Subject: Got Copper Sulphate on my chiller

The part of my chiller that is above the normal line of wort is sort of
dark-ish, whereas the part that is immersed is much lighter and copper
colored.  I just rinse after use and store in an open plastic bag.  Since
I brew about three times per month the oxide/sulphate/whatever_it_is
never gets too thick on the immersed part, so I've never worried about
it.  My understanding is that some of the copper compounds will come off
into the wort as you are cooling it, but that the yeast will eat them
for nutrition and they will not remain in the finished beer.  One thing
that has been mentioned on the HBD is that you should NOT use vinegar
to clean copper since this makes some toxic compound.

********
Jack Boatman writes:
>I'm using a Coopers Real Ale kit (3.75# hopped malt extract syrup) plus an
>additional 3# Laagander light malt extract syrup. No sugar.

If the Laaglander syrup is anything like the Laaglander dry malt extract,
the beer will be rather sweet, underhopped and thick.  Next time, you
may want to add some extra hops ot balance the sweetness left by the
Laaglander or use a different, pre-hopped extract.

<snip -- Jack writes about how the airlock went from 40/min to 1 or 2/min>
>
>The carboy is pretty cloudy although it looks like maybe an eighth or quarter
>inch of the top edge has cleared.
>
>Questions:
>
>What its a reasonable bubble rate?

All of the above.  74F is not any magic temperature.  The higher the
temperature, the fruitier the beer will be.  At first, you will have
a lot of bubbles per minute, then as the yeast runs out of sugars it
can eat, the bubble rate will drop.

>Should I try to keep it warm in order to keep the bubble rate up?

It won't help... the yeast is running out of sugar.  The beer will soon
be ready to bottle.  Fermentation of ales should take between 2 and 10
days depending on the yeast, temperature, Original Gravity, aeration
and the pitching temperature differential (difference between the starter
and the wort, if you used a starter).  After fermentation is done, the
yeast will still have to settle.  This will take another 1 to 10 days
depending on the yeast (how well the strain you used flocculate).  If
the yeast has not cleared after two weeks, then you probably have either
a wild yeast infection (don't worry -- some make pretty good beer) or
it's not yeast -- it could be a starch haze that will never go away, but
the beer will still be drinkable.

>Shouldn't it start to clear at the top and then progress to the bottom by the
>time it's done?

That's right.  Just be patient.

>How long should I wait before deciding it's done (no 0SG reading)? or doing 
>something else (like re-racking or pitching or scrapping....)

I wait till the bubbling goes down to about 1 bubble every two minutes.
Then, I dryhop for a week or two and bottle/keg.

*******
Bruce writes:
>Is it necessary to protect the brew from UV while in secondary? I use a 

Yes.  Hop components will be altered by the light (it doesn't even need
to be UV to affect them).  Why not put a cardboard box over the whole
thing?  Or put it in a closet?

>Should I be protecting the secondary from UV?

Yes, and the primary too...

*******
Paul writes:
>The local retailer can get HDM belgian malt at a very attractive price
>compared to Dewolf-Cosyns.  The Wholesalers are telling him "it's the
>same".  I'm skeptical.  It may be as good, or maybe not as good, but
>probably not the same.

I've never seen it or tasted beer made with it (knowingly).  I suspect
that it is probably comparable in quality to DeWolf-Cosyns, but don't
know for sure.  It is important to note that both manufacturers use
the same names (CaraVienne, Special B, etc.), but that the grains can
be very different in color.

******

RAY writes:
>I have a light lager that is about ready to bottle and it has not settled
>out thus leaving it cloudy.  Is there a cure for this prior to priming and
>bottling?  I'm an intermediate brewer with about 15 batches experien and
>this is the first time this has occured.  What causes this cloudiness?

Could be a low-flocculation yeast (like the Czech Pilsner yeast from
Wyeast), in which case you should use some kind of finings to get it
to settle or a wild yeast infection, in which case you *may* be able to
get it to settle using finings or it could be a starch haze, in which
case you might want to buy some ceramic mugs.

Al.

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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 16:00:39 EST
From: hogle at hqs.mid.gmeds.com (Mark Hogle)
Subject: Lack of Carbonation in lagers

I've currently got 10 gallons of my first attempts at lagers lagering 
in bottles in my refrigerator.  The method of lagering in bottles is 
suggested in Miller's book "brewing the world's great beers" (or 
something like that).

I've sampled some of these beers (2 styles: Czech Pils and Munich 
Dunkel) and they're both very low in carbonation.  I primed w/ std 
amounts of sugar, let them sit for 2-3 weeks in my cold fermenting closet 
(46-54 deg F) before putting them in the frig to lager (BTW, I'm using 
Wyeast 2308 Munich(?) lager yeast).   

So I'm considering taking them out of the fridge for awhile (1 week?) 
to warm up and hopefully carbonate.  Is this process (cold lager for 
3-4 weeks, warm the beer up to 65 F for a week, then back to lagering) 
a really bad thing to do?  For that matter, have I already wiped out my 
yeast w/ the 2-4 weeks of lagering I've done?

Also, the beer has a very pronounced yeasty flavor.  Is this something
typical of 2308 and does it go away w/ lagering?

Thanks for any advice
Mark Hogle

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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 17:01:18 EST
From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: Low ETOH beers

I know I've taken a long time to get around to sending this but I
thought I would add a little bit on low alcohol beers.  As Spencer
Thomas said, British bitters are often lower gravity beers.  Terry
Foster has two such recipes in his book "Pale Ale"; "Yer Avridge
Bitter" at 1.039 & "Tank It Down Ordinary Bitter" at 1.035.  I've made
the former (my first all-grain) and it was very good.  I also made his
"Beyond the Pale Pale Ale".  When I did, I also tried a batch sparge
(i.e. add all the sparge water to the mash and then drain).  Well, I
miscalculated the amount of sparge water and got an O.G. of 1.040.  The
beer was very good and the alcohol was low enough that my wife and I
could each have one with dinner and not feel tired for the evening.

Last of all, Pierre Rajotte has a recipe called "Driver's Choice" in his
book "Belgian Ale."  It has an O.G. of 1.016.  He has some crystal and
dextrine powder to add a little body.  Has anybody tried this one?  I
was thinking of trying it and adding some ginger and coriander to make a
nice summer time drink.  He does warn that it needs to be drunk quickly
with such a low alcohol content.

I have especially enjoyed the "Pale Ale" book and recommend it to anyone
who enjoys the style.
- --
Jim Grady             
grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com

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Date: 29 Mar 94 22:11:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Re: Red Star starters

Dion writes:
>I agree completely with Algis about using water to rehydrate yeast,
>but I go one step further.  After rehydration is completed and the
>slurry cooled to 80F, I pitch it into a 1020 mini-wort about 4 hours
>before I will be ready to pitch into my batch of wort.  By the time I
>am ready to pitch, the yeast have begun vigorous fermentation and I
>get fermentation started in my wort within 2 hours at the longest.
>The bottom line is to have a sufficient amount of active yeast cells
>to pitch, and the mini-wort gets them multiplying before you pitch
>into your 5 gal of wort.

I'm not sure if this is better or worse than just rehydrating.  Your
lag time sure seems commendable, so perhaps there is nothing to worry
about, but the ideal time to pitch yeast is when their glycogen levels
are the highest.  They are at their highest just after the yeast has
run out of sugars.  As they sense that the sugar in their environment
is beginning to run out, they begin to store it away.  By putting the
yeast in a mini-wort for 4 hours, you are causing them to begin using
up their glycogen.  When you put them into the main wort, they are
probably (note the beginning of speculation) forced into the Pasteur
effect, in which they go back to respiration.  Unless they never made
it *out* of the respiration phase in the mini-wort, this may not be
the ideal pitch timing.  Or worse, what if they aren't forced back
into respiration?  On the other hand, if their numbers are good and
they have had enough oxygen (remember, dried yeast are grown in a highly
oxygenated environment, right up until drying) then even if they don't
consume the excess O2 it will probably be scrubbed out by evolving
CO2, no?  Comments?  George?  Mike?  Others?

Al.

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Date: 29 Mar 94 19:35:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: SanitizingKegs/2-week Primary/teflon

Don writes (quoting Bill):
>>   - Connect the siphon hose to the 'out' lock (the dip tube) and
>>  siphon the beer, filling the keg again from the bottom to the top.
>>  The CO2 displaced by the beer will vent from the 'in' lock, it
>>  must be on or the siphon won't work. Keep an eye on the siphon

>I've thought about filling kegs in this manner but have not since
>it would be difficult to sanitize the locks themselves and the 
>male locks on the kegs.

I would just set up the system and force iodophor or boiling water through
the whole thing.  All the wetted parts would be sanitized.

******
Zach writes:
>beer.  However he forgot to siphon it into the secondary and so its been 
>in the primary for about 2 weeks.  Is the bear ruined?  It doesn't seem 
>infected so should he throw it out and start over or just bottle it?

Just bottle it.  Two weeks in the primary is no big deal.  I regularly
leave beer in glass primaries at 60-65F for four weeks with no problems.
With plastic primaries, you will have some oxidation of the beer, but
in two weeks you won't have a detectable amount of aldehydes produced.

*****
Mike writes:
>     I was looking for a pot to make small batches of starter wort. My wife
>spotted one that was just the size I was looking for, but it was Teflon
>coated. Is a Teflon coated pot okay to brew in?

Sure.  I used to use teflon pots all the time for starters and priming
sugar until I got some 1L and 2L Erlenmeyer flasks.

Al.

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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 17:32:34 -0500
From: "Mark Mankin (mmankin at ieee.org)" <mmankin at ieeemem.ieee.org>
Subject: The Brews Paper


A little over a year ago, a lot of us received a free issue of "The Brews
Paper", a decidedly light-hearted tabloid for us "Relax, Don't Worry" types.
(I believe they rented the AHA member list).  I never did subscribe, but my
wife kept the paper, hoping to surprise me with a subscription.

To cut to the chase:  My wife sent in a fax order to the number on the
masthead.  Her credit card was billed $25.00 for a 2-year subscription on
01/17/94.  We still have not received an issue.  She phoned their office in
Niles, MI several times during business hours.  Each time she got an answering
machine.  No one has returned her calls.

On March 24th, she mailed a strongly worded letter to Editor-in-Chief Terry L.
Cora including our phone and fax numbers.  Still no word from "Brews".

Anybody else on the net have a problem with these folks ?  I'm assuming that
they still are in business since their phone was hooked up last week.  Private
e-mail is OK, I'll summarize for the net if volume warrants.

Mr. Cora:  If you are out there, It's just plain good business to try to keep
your customers satisfied.   I don't know you and you don't know my wife.  That
line in her letter about "legal action" was not a joke. (No, her maiden name is
not Koch). :)

Keepin' It Short to Save Bandwidth,
Mark Mankin   (mmankin at ieee.org)


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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 18:07:27 -0500 (EST)
From: lawson at clcunix.msj.edu
Subject: ruining stainless steel

     I think I've discovered the most effective way to ruin a stainless
steel brewpot--run it through the clean cycle in your oven!  But seriously,
I appreciate the help of those who responded to my questions about the 
brewpot.  John Palmer recently informed me that the cleaning cycle of an
oven can go as high as 1000F and "embrittlement" of the stainless steel
probably occurred.  This means that the pot will eventually crack and will
be completely useless!  Well, at least it won't have wort stains on the
bottom! :-(
    I should say (in an effort to save what little "face" I have left) that
I REALLY did suspect that this might ruin my brewpot, but I didn't care
because every time I have used it lately it has acquired stains that are
impossible to get off.  Oh well, at least I (and some of you) learned never
to do that again!


Tim Lawson               
Behavioral Sciences Department 
College of Mount St. Joseph   
Cincinnati, Ohio 45233-1670 
lawson at clcunix.msj.edu    


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Date:         Tue, 29 Mar 94 15:25:33 MST
From: DUSTHOMP at idbsu.idbsu.edu
Subject:      HOPS

How do you tell what kind of hops are growing?  My dad has hops growing
over his shed for years.  He has no idea what kind of hops they are.  Can
a person tell by the leaves, color, smell?   Any ideas besides just try
them?

Thanks

 Shirley Thompson      User Service Center      Boise State University
                    Dusthomp at Idbsu.Idbsu.Edu                            du
Here's to it and to it again, if you don't do it, when you get to it,
you may never get to it to do it again. . .

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1385, 03/30/94