FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Tumbleweed Trip Report (try # 2) (U-E68316-Scott Wisler)
  bottle filling (Jason Sloan)
  Mashing Enzymes (wyatt)
  Thermostat plans? (Geoff Scott)
  RIMS info request (slkinsey)
  Anyone know how to make apple beer? (John Brackenbush)
  Twistoff bottles (David Draper)
  Chimay/Interbrew (GRAFTONG)
  "Heat Capacity Calculations for Mashing" (allison shorten)
  2000 yr old brew (Jon Petty)
  My $0.02 on minikegs (Jim Grady)
  copper/vinegar (Roger Lepine)
  subscription request (Bruce Wiggins)
  Beer and light (Keith MacNeal  30-Mar-1994 1005)
  Party keg tap source (Alexander J Ramos)
  mailing list (alan l causey)
  AOL & Usenet (btalk)
  Cornelius kegs (skemp) <skemp at hp7001.ecae.stortek.com>
  Hops/Rootone/horses (Larry Meyer)
  RE:glass airlocks (Jim Doyle)
  Removing plastic plugs from minikegs... (Bob Bessette)
  None ("Norman Dickenson")
   (CYRE000)
   (CYRE000)
   (CYRE000)
  Grain Bed Depth (Michael Inglis)
  Bottles (PRATTE)
  33 QT BREWPOTS AND SCORCHED COUNTERTOPS (708) 938-3184" <HANSEN.MICHAEL at igate.abbott.com>
  RE:Underpitching with Wyeast (Sam Gendlu)
  regulators (Carlo Fusco)
  Stinky F*# at ing Stout Recipe (STU_BSHANSON)
  Wort cooler ("Glenace L. Melton")
  Is this an OK way to brew? (Jonathan Peakall)


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For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 13:21:40 EST
From: U-E68316-Scott Wisler <wisler_scott at ae.ge.com>
Subject: Tumbleweed Trip Report (try # 2)

I had a chance to visit Kinney Baughman at the Tumbleweed Grill and
Microbrewery in Boone, NC last fall.  All around it was a great
trip.  The leaves put on a show far too colorful for words to describe, and
the brewery is definitely worth experiencing, especially for those
thinking about breaking into the microbrewery business. 

I reread the Tumbleweed Reports before I left, but seeing the brewery
was another matter.  I was very impressed.  It is pretty only to one who 
appreciates beer, creativity, and a bottom line in the black.  But it is 
completely in line with the idea that the only really important thing is 
what gets served in the restaurant. (!) They make very good beer; better 
than I can consistently make on the homebrewing level.  The fact that
they do this on a shoestring budget and an absolute minimum of equipment
capital is amazing.

Yes, they brew with extracts; I would have been hard pressed to tell that it 
was not all-grain beer.  Outstanding beer can be brewed with extracts. 
I had assumed (we know what that means) that the big improvement I
experienced when I switched from extracts to all-grain was due to the
grains.  The more likely reason is that my technique and ingredients
improved.  Going all-grain is not going to ensure a high quality product.  
To be successful, you need very high quality ingredients and good technique,
Technique is more important than grain/extract arguments.  However, after
they decided not to use all-grain, they had to do everything else within
their power to make up for it. 

One of the things I was most taken aback by were the problems
and solutions associated with physically handling very large quantities.  
You can get boxed into a corner very quickly.  For example, they ferment
in 1 bbl plastic barrels.  That may seem large or small (depending on
your perspective) but it is (was) probably appropriate for their batch 
size.  In order to be able to serve 4 kinds of beer every day, you need
a lot of fermenters.  How do you move even that size around?  Imagine 
having 16 to 20 barrels in your family room.  Then imagine that the one
in the very back corner is ready for kegging, and you have to move all
the others to get to it.  Every day.  They came up with a unique
solution - individual wheeled platforms that all the fermenters roll on.
Same with kegging; the use 5 gal kegs, which seemed to me to be a lot of
work.  When I asked why, they said: `half barrels are too heavy to carry down 
the hill on a regular basis'.

The other thing that really suprised me was essentially the business end
of brewing.  You have to keep the resturant supplied.  The rising stress
level was obvious when the tough question arose: "Are we going to have
any beer to sell TODAY?"  There are going to be off flavors and batch to
batch variations - what do you do about this?  It takes a very
experienced tongue to detect these sometimes.  And your customers will
tell you (and their friends) about off flavors when they are paying for the 
beer.  You have to know when and how to blend batches and when to dump them.  
Essentially, what you can get away with.

I asked Kinney: `Can't you brew a better beer using all-grain?'  
The answer is basically, Yes. But, you can also brew a much worse
beer (This rocked me back on my heels); It must make business sense to switch. 
The economics works out so that the batch size (related to sales and available
equipment) must be large enough so that the savings on malt/grain makes up 
for the extra labor cost (time) involved in all-grain beer.  When purchased 
in very large quantities, the cost difference between extract from DME and 
grain is suprisingly small.

The economics (on their scale) is interesting.  High quality extract costs 
about 50% more than high quality grain (in very large quantities, on a per 
pound basis, including shipping)  But you only get 75% of the grain's weight 
as extract, so the cost difference is maybe 25%.  To save $.20/# of extract, 
the brew time (labor cost) more than doubles.  Plus you have to store 2 tons 
of grain, deal with the FDA, more equipment, etc.  (numbers are approximate)  
Thus there is a definate batch size break point.

Kinney gave me several hints and techniques for improving the quality of 
extract beer.  So, what did I learn about using extracts?  
   o  Start with the best quality extract you can get.  (try Alexanders) 
      High quality ingredients make a big difference.	
   o  Always use Specialty Grains.  Use extra-light extract as a base and 
      get color/mouthfeel from various crystals and dark grains.  Use a 
      20 min steep at 165-170F plus a series of sparges through the grain 
      bag as described in a earlier post on sparging methods.  (Technique is 
      arguable here but the idea is valid)  Rolling pins are ok for the crush.
   o  Premix DME with water as you are heating the kettle.  It is
      easier to premix completely than mix over a hot kettle and you don't 
      get clumps temporarially falling to the hot bottom.
   o  Turn off the heat and/or pull the kettle off an electric element
      when adding the extract.  This prevents scorching and the really 
      strong carmel flavors I got in my last extract stout.  Mix thouroughly 
      before applying heat.
   o  Use whole hops where possible.
   o  Use a hopback.  Kinney feels he couldn't get the hop aroma he does 
      without one, and believes that all things being equal, a beer with
      a good hop nose will be perceived as a better beer than one without.  
      Good hop nose can help to cover slight imperfections from extracts.
      
Kinney suggested that when I make my next stout, I use extract and
specialty grains because the strong flavor would more than cover any
flavor benefits from the pale grain.  I am quite tempted to try this,
even though for me, extract is 6 times more expensive than DWC grain.  I
am curious as to just how good an extract beer I can make.

This was an eye-opening trip.  No gleaming kettles, sparkling floors, or
hospital-like fermentation rooms to report.  If you're not going to
spend 6 figures on equipment, you have to have the experience to make it
happen, and be ready for a lot of hard work.  Kinney and Cam have those
last two covered.


scott



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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 20:12:59 -0500
From: aa3625 at freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu (Jason Sloan)
Subject: bottle filling



     A friend and I bottled our first attempt at homebrew last
 night and were wondering if it is better to overfill or to 
underfill the bottles.  
     The beer is from a "continental ale" kit that makes 5 gal
and is primed with 3/4 pound (or was it 3/4 cup) of corn sugar.
We were wondering if the chance of exploding beer bottles was
increased more by underfilling or by overfilling.  I noticed that
commercial longneck bottles are usually filled about 3 cm from
the top.  I assume that this is standard then.
     Another question:  An instructer told me that Irish Moss    
would help to clear up the beer.  Ideas on this?  Is it true?  If
so, at what stage do you add it to the wort and how much do you
add?
     Let me know here or E-mail me direct.

Thanks in advance!

- --
Jason Sloan
sloan01?jason at cc01.mssc.edu or aa3625 at freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu
- ---Yo ho ho and a bucket of homebrew...

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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 18:10:56 pst
From: wyatt at Latitude.COM
Subject: Mashing Enzymes

     From Wyatt Jones at Latitude
     
        The reason that I was slightly concerned about enzyme destruction 
     from heat was that I read in "Brewing Techniques" magazine that the 
     DeWolf Cosyn Pale Ale malt could only handle an extra 15% adjuncts.  
     I have been using it in Scotch Ales and wanted to increace the amount 
     of Biscuit Malt (which has no enzymes) in my batches.  I realize that 
     Cara-Pils and Special B don't need mashing but I usually add them into 
     the mash at the begining of the mash instead of the mash-out.  Does 
     this eat up extra enzymes?  I would certainly think so.  Maybe I will 
     just put them in at the mash-out next time and go for it. 
        Also I think part of the problem I have had with sparging has 
     possibly to do with the crush setting I have been using.  I think next 
     time I will use a coarser setting on my roller mill.  Will this help?  
     What about extract efficiency?  I have gotten a very clear run-off but 
     it takes way too long.  Part of the problem might be that I use a lot 
     of grain for the double Wee Heavy/Scottish ale recipe as I only do one 
     mash and it takes over 30 pounds.  Any comments?  Everything else has 
     been going very smoothly.

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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 22:18 WET
From: gscott at io.org (Geoff Scott)
Subject: Thermostat plans?

Anyone have straightforward plans for a thermostat controller
like the Airstat?  A friend is looking with envy at the old
Honeywell that I have my beer fridge plugged into.  We would
build one if anyone has a plan with a reasonably easy to obtain
parts list.  While I like to rummage through electronic surplus
stores as much as next guy, I dont have much confidence in our
ability to make good substitutions.  

regards,
Geoff Scott
gscott at io.org    (more reliable)
   or
Geoff_Scott at magic-bbs.corp.apple.com   (less reliable)

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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 00:02:58 EST
From: slkinsey at aol.com
Subject: RIMS info request

As someone also did recently, I would like to request any and all info on
building a RIMS system.  Design, what/where to buy, etc. would be greatly
appreciated.  I am not a real electronics-type techie, so try to make it easy
for me.  I would much rather buy components than have to wire/solder them
together like is described in the "gadgets" special edition of Zymurgy.  I am
also interested in what people have to say about the advantages and
disadvantages of the system.  For example, George Fix, in his recent Zymurgy
review of the Brew Magic RIMS system mentioned that many RIMS systems sufered
in that "the overall malt character of each was less than ideal, often with
an out-front grain astringent tone."  Has this been anyone's experience? 
What is the deal with hot-side aeration in a RIMS system + how do you prevent
this?
My thanks in advance from everyone

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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 23:21:48 -0600 (CST)
From: jcbracke at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (John Brackenbush)
Subject: Anyone know how to make apple beer?

I tasted a beer called woodpecker cider which was made in England does anyone
know how to replicate the beer?  I am just getting into beer making so be as
simple as you can on how to make it.  My address is JCBRACKE at ILSTU.EDU thank
you for your help.
John Brackenbush
Illinois State University

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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 18:05:13 +1000 (EST)
From: David Draper <ddraper at laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au>
Subject: Twistoff bottles

Hi folks, I need some advice on using twistoff bottles.  I know, this has
been gone over many times in the past but I haven't the access to back
issues, and I am guilty as sin of not paying attention when they were
discussed--I had a full supply of bottles then, but now that I've moved
down under I don't anymore, and the cheapest available bottles are the
twistoffs I but full and then drink.  The brewstore wants way too much for
ex-Heineken bottles (A$5/dozen 375 ml).  So--will they hold a seal using a
two-arm, pull down bottle capper???  Please email responses to me at the
address below, and many thanks and apologies for rehashing ancient history.
Cheers, Dave in Sydney (was Dave in Bristol)

- -- 
******************************************************************************
David S. Draper			School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University
ddraper at laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au	NSW 2109 Sydney, Australia
Fax: +61-2-805-8428		Voice: +61-2-805-8347

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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 10:38
From: GRAFTONG at vms1.bham.ac.uk
Subject: Chimay/Interbrew

The April edition of Whats Brewing (the offical CAMRA newspaper) carried
an article on this.  I thought I'd post an abridged version.

"Beer drinkers in Europe are to mount a campaign against the giant Belgian
group Interbrew, which is promoting its Leffe beers as Trappist ales.

Leffe, marketed in Britain by Scottish and Newcastle, are abbey beers - and
the distinction is an important one.  Trappist beers come from monasteries
controlled by monks while abbey beers are commercial ones lecensed by
monasteries.

In the case of Leffe, brewed at Interbrew's Mont Guibert plant, the monks who
gave the brewery the licence stopped producing the ale during the Napoleonic
wars.

Now the Objectieve Bierproevers consumer group in Belgium is campainging
against Interbrew and OBP won support last month from other members of the
European Beer Consumers Union.

Meeting in Maastricht in the Netherlands, CAMRA and the Dutch group PINT
voted to support OBP's stand.  Posters will be distributed pointing out
that the only true Trappist beers are brewed by Chimay, Orval, Rochefort,
Westmalle and Westvleteren in Belgium, and La Trappe in the Netherlands."

If Interbrew are misusing these labels in the USA, then CAMRA would be
very intereseted to hear from you.  Contact them at
CAMRA Ltd., 34 Alma Road, St. Albans, Herts. AL1 3BW, U.K.
Fax 0727 867670

Gillian Grafton
(GraftonG at vms1.bham.ac.uk)

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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 20:31:06 +1000 (EST)
From: allison shorten <shorten at zeus.usq.edu.au>
Subject: "Heat Capacity Calculations for Mashing"

I refer here to Kurt Froning's article in the latest Zymurgy on calculating
how to achieve a given strike temperature for mashing.
  I can see how the formulae given (numbers 2 and 3 in the article) would
calculate how much boiling water and how much room temperature
water to use to achieve desired strike temperature. However, I cant see
how the formulae would help in calculating how to increase the temperature
of the mash ie from protein rest to conversion temperature or from there
to mashout. This is because it seems to me that the formulae assume that
the final weight of water (LBW) is known in advance. 
  Assuming I want to raise the temperature from 122F to 152F, and want to
know how much boiling water to use, I dont see how I can use formula 3, as
I wouldnt know what value to use for LBW (which as far as I can tell
should represent the weight of water AFTER the temperature has been achieved).
  In a similar vein, it seems to me that Froning's suggestion that the
formulae can also be used to calculate how much boiling water to add if
strike temperature is missed on the low side will only work because the
weight of water required will be small and therefore LBW can be assumed
unchanged.
  Am I right or wrong about this, and if right could someone please show
me how to make the desired calculation (ie to raise the temperature of the
mash by adding the correct amount of boiling water?
Brett Shorten

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Date:     Wed, 30 Mar 94 7:29:16 EST
From: Jon Petty <jpetty at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  2000 yr old brew

This may be of interest to beer historians:

     LONDON (Reuter) - British archeologists and brewers are about to
reproduce the beer drunk by the pharaohs and have dubbed it
"Tutankhamun's tipple."
     Brewers Scottish & Newcastle, who have sponsored excavations at
an ancient Egyptian brewery, said that by next month they aimed to
have made ale from a 4,000-year-old recipe.
     It is named after Tutankhamun, the boy-king whose stepmother,
Queen Nefertiti, is believed to have ordered the construction of the
brewery at Armana, south of Cairo on the banks of the Nile.
     Today's drinkers will find ancient Egyptian beer tastes very
different, as it includes palm dates and olives.

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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 7:44:26 EST
From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: My $0.02 on minikegs

I have used a mini-keg system since late last summer.  I have had only
one problem with foaming and I think I slightly overprimed.  I have had
the most success with putting the tap in with the pressure control set
to 0 and then drawing off the beer.  I only turn up the CO2 pressure
when there is not enough pressure to dispense the beer.  When this
happens, I turn the pressure all the way up for a little bit and then
turn it back off to dispense.  I need to do this every 2-3 glasses or
so.

I find that I like the mini-kegs for draught bitters.  I prime them a
bit less than other beers and I find that the turbulence of dispensing
through the tap strips out a lot of the carbonation and gives it a nice
head.  For draught bitters, I use 1/4 c. of corn sugar per 5 gallons.
(I sometimes do this when I bottle bitters as well and it seems to work
nicely.)

The main disadvantage for me with the mini-keg system is that I like to
have several brews from which to choose and I don't want to go out an
buy a bunch of different taps and more kegs, e.g. right now I have 5
different batches ready to drink.

As far as buying the cartridges, I got some at one of our local liquour
stores -- they were SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than my local homebrew
supplier!

- --
Jim Grady             
grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com

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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 9:01:23 EST
From: Roger Lepine <lepine at hp-and.an.hp.com>
Subject: copper/vinegar

What's this about copper and vinegar producing some sort of toxic substance?    
This is the first I've heard of it. Am I doing something wrong? AGAIN!
        roger l.

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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 10:07:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Bruce Wiggins <FAC_BWIGGINS at VAX1.ACS.JMU.EDU>
Subject: subscription request

I want to get the homebrew digest.  Please put me on the list.  Thanks.

 -Bruce Wiggins
fac_bwiggins at vax1.acs.jmu.edu

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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 10:06:47 EST
From: Keith MacNeal 30-Mar-1994 1005 <macneal at pate.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Beer and light

In HBD #1385 Al mentioned that wavelengths of light other than UV can also
be harmful to beer.  This is the first time I have heard that.  Anyone have
any more info?

Keith MacNEal
Digital Equipment Corp.
Hudson, MA

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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 10:15:11 -0500
From: Alexander J Ramos <geotex at eecs.umich.edu>
Subject: Party keg tap source



Hi!

There has been a lot of talk about party kegs and taps lately.

Some have mentioned that the plastic taps are flimsy and
that the metal ones are the only way to go.

Does anyone have any mail-order source for the metal
party keg taps?

please email,
thanks
Alex


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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 09:24:19 -0600
From: alan l causey <alc at fiona.umsmed.edu>
Subject: mailing list

I'd like to be added to your mailing list.  How do I do this?

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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 08:26:24 EST
From: btalk at aol.com
Subject: AOL & Usenet

America Online has recently added Usenet as part of its ongoing expansion of
Internet access. I've found the r.c.b. there.
Regards, Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY

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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 9:55:52 MST
From: Steve Kemp (skemp) <skemp at hp7001.ecae.stortek.com>
Subject: Cornelius kegs

Steve Smith writes asking about the price of Cornelius kegs:

steve>  At this same supplier I can purchase a 5lb CO2 tank, a 2-line
steve>  regulator and 1 ball lock soda keg (or pin lock) around the 
steve>  neighborhood of $187, tax included. Additional pressure tested 
steve>  soda kegs are $25 ea.  Does that sound like a fairly reasonable
steve>  price?

Steve this doesn't sound too bad if the co2 bottle is a new one. I have
just purchased a system with a used 5 lb co2 bottle (4 years left on cert)
for $40, a twin guage regulator with hoses and hand held tap for $60, and 
TWO 5 gal ball lock kegs for $40 each, a total of $180. This was purchased 
from a restaurant and bar supply in Denver. Another good source is the
Brewers Resource catalog 1-800-827-3983 ( no afilliation ). 
   There has been alot of bandwidth lately about mini-kegs, they sound like
a real hassle, so if you have an extra fridge for these 5 gal Cornelius kegs
there's no better way to go! I love the system! Just the right size for a 
full batch of brew, just force carbonate and you don't have to mess with it 
again until it's empty. Also be sure to replace all of the gaskets before
putting that precious brew into them because if they smell like soda pop then
they will taint your beer. 

Brew On!       Steve Kemp

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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 10:05:07 -0700
From: Larry Meyer <Meyer at msscc.med.utah.edu>
Subject: Hops/Rootone/horses

Rootone (or equivalent) may be an overkill product in some cases, but it
can certainally aid early root growth. It is a synthetic plant hormone or
cytokine (alpha naphthalacetate), which is produced by the growing tips-
but if the hop rhizome doesn't have a growing tip yet (or if it's been
broken or damaged) it will help get a good set of roots going. I agree with
Coyote that dipping the bottom end in the dry powder (after wetting the
rhyzome) is best. There are also liquid  root starters which contain
vitamine B1 that aid early root growth that can be dumped on after the
shoots are up or when transplanting from a pot. These are available in
standard nurseries, and are great for starting bare root trees or roses. A
dilute soap solution or malathion (used before flowering) kills spider
mites.

Horses are a problem. There is nothing except a 5 foot metal fence or an
electric fence which will stop horses. Eating wood is often a sign of a
board horse. Coyote didn't say if the horses in question were in a pasture
or a coral- I pasture horses next to my hops (grown on a chain link fence)
an they only ate part of one plant. They prefer the grass. But they eat
everything in their coral. I'd suggest planting them on a trellace a foot
off the fence. The horses share which grows through the fence will pay them
for the manure.

Larry


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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 08:35:28 -0700
From: Jim Doyle <jgdoyle at uci.edu>
Subject: RE:glass airlocks

Algis Korzonas wrote to forget about using a glassblower for glass airlocks
due to the outrageous quotes he received.

When I asked my local glassblower about airlocks, he made me a couple for
FREE!  Yes, this is outrageous, but glassblowers seem to be pretty earthy
folks, and I imagine a phone quote from a mail order dude would land a
different price than a visit in person from a brewer and a schmooz.

Some other advantages of glassblower supplied parts are 1)keep local 
Americans working and 2)you can get the tube whatever size is convenient
for you.

Jim Doyle


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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 12:53:55 EST
From: Bob Bessette <bessette at uicc.com>
Subject: Removing plastic plugs from minikegs...

In HBD "rprice" wrote in reference to the Party Minikegs:

*The real kicker as far as I am concerned is getting the little hard plastic 
*plug out of the can easily.  The family always gets a real laugh at my antics 
*in trying to remove them, then the wife comes over and somehow just pops em 
*right out.


Well,
 I have never had a problem with this. All I do is pour some water in my keg,
tip it directly upside down (with the drain plug in the sink) and the plug 
comes right out. I think the trick is to have the keg straight up and down 
and the water comes gushing out of the keg with the plastic plug. This never 
fails for me. Give it a try.

				Happy Kegging,
				Bob Bessette
				bessette at uicc.com


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Date: 30 Mar 1994 09:25:10 U
From: "Norman Dickenson" <norman.dickenson at Sonoma.EDU>
Subject: None

                       Subject:                               Time:8:54 AM
  OFFICE MEMO          None                                   Date:3/30/94
Tim Lawson wrote:
< I think I've discovered the most effective way to ruin a stainless
steel brewpot--run it through the clean cycle in your oven!>

<I REALLY did suspect that this might ruin my brewpot, but I didn't care
because every time I have used it lately it has acquired stains that are
impossible to get off.>

I purchase restaurant grade stainless steel scrubbing pads from a local

custodial supply purveyer.  They are very similar to the copper or nylon

scrubbers readily found in any supermarket.  I have never met any type

of stain or deposit or charred carbon spot that one of these scrubbers
 
couldn't quickly eliminate.  Your stainless steel will also transfer heat

more efficiently if it is brightly cleaned with the oxidation removed.

 -Norman-
norman.dickenson at sonoma.edu



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Date:        Wed, 30 Mar 94 13:58:31 EST
From: CYRE000 <CYRE at MUSICA.MCGILL.CA>
Subject: 

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Date:        Wed, 30 Mar 94 11:48:03 EST
From:        CYRE000 <CYRE at MUSICA.MCGILL.CA>
To:          <homebrew at hpcmi.fc.hp.com>
Subject:

To: All you homebrewers out there
Re: Grolsch bottles, cleaning and rehydrating yeast

I have been brewing at home for about 2 or 3 years now and have not
ventured beyond the beginner "do it with a kit" stage. This is likely
due to the fact that my tastebuds are very unsophisticated and I have
convinced myself that my brown ales, pilsners and bitters are acceptable
using the kits.
I have several questions however since reading the most recent talk
on the digest.
1. Do you really need to rehydrate the yeast? I don't and my beer is exc
ellent.
2. Do you really need to sanitize your bottles after every batch? Again
I don't. I simmply give them a good rinse after I empty the bottle and I
never have anything growing (at least that my tastebuds can discern). I
sanitized all the bottles initially but never since then. I have found
that keeping your fermentation bucket clean is alot more important.
3. I also don't change my rubber gaskets every second time but they do
dry up eventually and need to be replaced.
4. Finally, I just bottled a batch of John Bull Pilsner and I had some t
trouble bottling it because it was so lively. Can anyone tell me why thi
this might happen?
Comments? Suggestions?
>From Rene Turcotte (cyre at musica.mcgill.ca)

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Date:        Wed, 30 Mar 94 14:00:18 EST
From: CYRE000 <CYRE at MUSICA.MCGILL.CA>
Subject: 

=======================================================WED MAR 30, 1994 13.53.41
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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 11:48:54 EST
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To: <CYRE at MUSICA.MCGILL.CA>
Subject: Undeliverable Mail

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Message-Id:  <30MAR94.12745115.0084.MUSIC at MUSICA.MCGILL.CA>
Date:        Wed, 30 Mar 94 11:48:03 EST
From:        CYRE000 <CYRE at MUSICA.MCGILL.CA>
To:          <homebrew at hpcmi.fc.hp.com>
Subject:

To: All you homebrewers out there
Re: Grolsch bottles, cleaning and rehydrating yeast

I have been brewing at home for about 2 or 3 years now and have not
ventured beyond the beginner "do it with a kit" stage. This is likely
due to the fact that my tastebuds are very unsophisticated and I have
convinced myself that my brown ales, pilsners and bitters are acceptable
using the kits.
I have several questions however since reading the most recent talk
on the digest.
1. Do you really need to rehydrate the yeast? I don't and my beer is exc
ellent.
2. Do you really need to sanitize your bottles after every batch? Again
I don't. I simmply give them a good rinse after I empty the bottle and I
never have anything growing (at least that my tastebuds can discern). I
sanitized all the bottles initially but never since then. I have found
that keeping your fermentation bucket clean is alot more important.
3. I also don't change my rubber gaskets every second time but they do
dry up eventually and need to be replaced.
4. Finally, I just bottled a batch of John Bull Pilsner and I had some t
trouble bottling it because it was so lively. Can anyone tell me why thi
this might happen?
Comments? Suggestions?
>From Rene Turcotte (cyre at musica.mcgill.ca)

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Date:        Wed, 30 Mar 94 14:00:29 EST
From: CYRE000 <CYRE at MUSICA.MCGILL.CA>
Subject: 

=======================================================WED MAR 30, 1994 13.53.41
Received: by MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (MUSIC Mailer V2.4.2); Wed, 30 Mar 94 11:49:00 EST
Received: from MCGILL1 by VM1.MCGILL.CA (Mailer R2.10 ptf000) with BSMTP id
 2026; Wed, 30 Mar 94 11:48:55 EST
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 11:48:54 EST
From: <SMTP at VM1.MCGILL.CA>
To: <CYRE at MUSICA.MCGILL.CA>
Subject: Undeliverable Mail

VM1.MCGILL.CA unable to deliver following mail to recipient(s):
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           ** Text of Mail follows **
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Received: from MUSICA.MCGILL.CA by VM1.MCGILL.CA (Mailer R2.10 ptf000) with
 BSMTP id 2016; Wed, 30 Mar 94 11:48:05 EST
Message-Id:  <30MAR94.12745115.0084.MUSIC at MUSICA.MCGILL.CA>
Date:        Wed, 30 Mar 94 11:48:03 EST
From:        CYRE000 <CYRE at MUSICA.MCGILL.CA>
To:          <homebrew at hpcmi.fc.hp.com>
Subject:

To: All you homebrewers out there
Re: Grolsch bottles, cleaning and rehydrating yeast

I have been brewing at home for about 2 or 3 years now and have not
ventured beyond the beginner "do it with a kit" stage. This is likely
due to the fact that my tastebuds are very unsophisticated and I have
convinced myself that my brown ales, pilsners and bitters are acceptable
using the kits.
I have several questions however since reading the most recent talk
on the digest.
1. Do you really need to rehydrate the yeast? I don't and my beer is exc
ellent.
2. Do you really need to sanitize your bottles after every batch? Again
I don't. I simmply give them a good rinse after I empty the bottle and I
never have anything growing (at least that my tastebuds can discern). I
sanitized all the bottles initially but never since then. I have found
that keeping your fermentation bucket clean is alot more important.
3. I also don't change my rubber gaskets every second time but they do
dry up eventually and need to be replaced.
4. Finally, I just bottled a batch of John Bull Pilsner and I had some t
trouble bottling it because it was so lively. Can anyone tell me why thi
this might happen?
Comments? Suggestions?
>From Rene Turcotte (cyre at musica.mcgill.ca)

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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 07:50:02 PST
From: mri10 at mfg.amdahl.com (Michael Inglis)
Subject: Grain Bed Depth

I was going through some old recipes and I noticed an interesting trend in
my extraction rates.  I used to use a 22qt easymasher type setup for my
mash/lauter tun and using an established process I normally got somewhere
in the range of 28-29 pts/lb/gal extraction.  I recently swithched to a 
33qt easymasher type setup and noticed my extraction rate drop to 24 on my
last 2 batches.  My suspicion is that the lesser grain bed depth is the
main culprit.  I would estimate that the depth dropped from 6"-7" to about
4".  Can anyone comment on this phenomenon?  What is the optimal grain bed
depth?  Thanks for any discussion.

Mike Inglis
mri10 at mfg.amdahl.com

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Date:          Wed, 30 Mar 1994 16:42:07 EST
From: PRATTE at GG.csc.peachnet.edu
Subject:       Bottles

After reading the thread on broken beer bottles and the recent 
zymurgy article (Spring 1994, vol. 17, no. 1, p. 57) on picking beer 
bottles, I began to wonder if anyone else out there has had an 
experience similar to my own.  While I do have my own stash of brown 
and green returnable and non-returnable bottles, I also have an equal 
sized stash of SODA bottles.  The most popular version I have is the
longneck Barq's Root Beer bottle.  As anyone from New Orleans can 
tell you, these are made of very thick glass and can easily withstand 
the rigors of homebrewing.  Their only drawback is that they are 
clear.  To correct this, I simply store them in boxes in the basement 
or closet.  To date, I have yet to have a skunky beer.

Another type of soda bottle that I have is the 7 oz. Sprite bottle. 
These bottles are green and are made out of sturdy glass.  The lone 
drawback is that it takes longer to bottle beer.  However, they are 
great when you want to show off (or just sample by yourself) several 
different batches of your brew without getting too inebriated.  I 
usually sneak a six pack or more of these bottles into each session 
just for this reason.


John Pratte

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Date: 30 Mar 1994 15:14:00 -0600 (CST)
From: "Michael D. Hansen (708) 938-3184" <HANSEN.MICHAEL at igate.abbott.com>
Subject: 33 QT BREWPOTS AND SCORCHED COUNTERTOPS

Hey All!

I've had some requests on where to purchase the countertop-scorching 33 qt. 
enamel-on-steel brewpots (CS-33). Well in the Chicago area, I got mt CS-33 at a 
store called Bed, Bath, and Beyond for $29.99. There is one in Schaumburg and 
one at Gurnee Mills. No affiliation blah, blah, BLAH! Don't ask for a CS-33, 
'cuz they surely won't know what the hell you're talking about! Good Luck and 
be careful!

Thanks to all the E-mails from those who have also scorched countertops using 
this large of a brewpot. I've had suggestions anywhere from moving the stove 
out from the counter to using the scorched countertop as an excuse to the wife 
for moving the brewery to the garage or basement, in which case, of course, you 
would need to buy more equipment to accommodate the new location!

Brew on my friends!
Mike  (HANSENMD at RANDB.ABBOTT.COM)

PS - Hey Coyote - you need a roommate? Sounds like a damn nice setup.



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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 13:53:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sam Gendlu <uhagbard at mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu>
Subject: RE:Underpitching with Wyeast

	Someone mentioned in yesterday's digest that pitching a straight 
packet of Wyeast into 5 gallons is underpitching.  Okay, I believe you, 
but what do I do about it. Please keep it simple, as you experienced 
brewers tend to assume that I actually know what you are talking about.
	I was also wondering about a suggestion to use dry ice in the 
beer making process.  Is this stuff pure enough to just toss into my wort 
in order to cool it.  I am currently too poor to even afford the 
materials to build a wort chiller.
	One last thing.  I am about to attempt a sour cherry ale.  That's 
sour cherries not sour ale.  I was going to use 7 pounds of amber malt 
extract, seven pounds of cherries, a small amount of bittering hops 
(cascades-7.5% AA), and maybe a half pound of crystal with a Lovibond 
rating of sixty.  I am shooting for an ale with a slight cherry aroma and 
flavour, not cherry soda with some alcohol in it.  Any suggestions.
	Thanks for any forthcoming advice.

Sam
uhagbard at mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu



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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 14:31:00 -0500
From: carlo.fusco at canrem.com (Carlo Fusco)
Subject: regulators

 H> Andy> Question about regulators for kegging.  We have this regulator 
 H> Andy> sitting here at work.  It was used to dispense argon and is now 
 H> Andy> sitting around doing nothing.  It's a rather big one, made for 
 H> Andy> a 2o pound tank.  Can it be used to keg homebrew?
 H> 
 H> NO, NO, NO.  CO2 in the tank is mostly a liquid with a layer of gas 
 H> on top of it in the "headspace" of the cylinder.  As such, it is at a 
 H> pressure of from 600 to 800 psi depending on ambient temperature. 
 H> Argon, like oxygen and other "normal" gases is just compressed into 
 H> the cylinder and does not become liquid.  Therefore, you are dealing 
 H> with somewhere in the range of 2000 to 3000 psi.  

WRONG, I have been using an MIG welding argon regulator for my 20lb CO2 
tank for 3 years now and have not had a problem. The only modifications I 
had to make, was change the tank connection, and replace the small 
pressure gauge with one that reads lbs instead of liter/min. I originally 
had reservations about doing this but the guy at the welding shop I went 
to showed me that argon and CO2 regulators are the same and only the 
connector is different. BTW, the small pressure gauge I use, was 
originally for acetylene.

- ---
 * Freddie 1.2.5 * email: carlo.fusco at canrem.com  Sharon,Ontario,Canada

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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 17:36:41 -0500 (EST)
From: STU_BSHANSON at VAX1.ACS.JMU.EDU
Subject: Stinky F*# at ing Stout Recipe

A friend and I brewed a stout from our own recipe and it has turned
out quite nicely.  Here is the recipe:

Stinky F*&#ing Stout    (Actually smells quite good, and tastes better)

1/2 lb Roasted Barley
6.6 lbs Ireks Amber unhopped extract
1.4 lbs Alexander's Sun Country kicker (pale malt)
1 oz Eroica hops
1/2 cup Blackstrap Molasses
1 oz Northern Brewers Hops
1/2 oz CASCADES hops
1 lb corn sugar
1 pkg ale yeast
priming sugar


Boil grains 5 min, strain.
Boil with molasses and all extract and corn sugar. 

Add Eroica Hops and boil 25 minutes
Add N. Brewers hops and boil 20 minutes
Add cascades and remove from heat after 2 to 5 minutes

Pour into fermenter, cool, pitch yeast and bottle when ready with primed
beer.


Any questions or comments to 

BSHA at vax1.acs.jmu.edu

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Date: 30 Mar 94 18:44:35 EST
From: "Glenace L. Melton" <71242.2275 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Wort cooler

I have been reading the HBD for some months through the CompuServe beer
forum library. Lots of good information --some not so good. My particular
peeve is looking up a likely-sounding recipe only to find the following:
   A Really Good Afengesicht Dunkel Bier
   HI! I'm now a homebrewer; isn't it great!? I started my first batch  
   last night. Here is the recipe:    Etc. Etc.     Well I'll let you    
   know how it turns out in about two weeks. Be sure and try it and let   
   me know what you think.   Andy

a.fuhl at cowpie.nsdu.edu

These people should, IMHO, be buried up to their necks in stale hop cones
and be set upon by red spider mites.

The coiled copper wort cooler is a fine invention, but most people are
using it incorrectly and inefficiently. I siphon the wort *through* the
coil with the cold water, snow, ice, blue ice or whatever, in a large pot
on the outside. I have this set in my darkroom sink before I start the
boil. The secondary carboy is on the floor with a plastic tube leading
down into its neck, but no farther. First I siphon about a gallon of
B-Brite through this system, which sufficiently sterilizes the inside of
the copper tubing and also the secondary. This can be poured off and
saved. Then I siphon water from the hot water tap --but not necessarily
very hot, it'll be sanitary enough-- through the system and wash out the
B-Brite, also washing out the secondary; I then cover the secondary with
clean plastic wrap. After the boil, I strain the wort into another 5-6
gal. container and set it beside the pot in the darkroom sink. Additional
hops can be added now if desired, so long as they are fine enough not to
plug up the tubing. Then, I siphon the wort through the coil and allow the
cooled wort to splash foamily into the secondary which is sitting on the
floor, hence much lower. The temperature will probably be down around
80^F and yeast can be pitched immediately. At this point I remove the
brewing vessel and siphon about a gallon of pure, hot water through the
tubing and take any other steps to make sure it is as clean as possible,
inside and out. 

                         [END]






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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 1994 21:52:49 -0800
From: belew at netcom.com (Jonathan Peakall)
Subject: Is this an OK way to brew?

Before I get to the contents of this post....Profuse apologies for the 
double post last time. In spite of such an obvious "rookie move", 
nobody flamed me! I am impressed with the "play nice" attitude of 
HBD.

Every one in the HBD seems to have a much more scientific orientation 
to their brewing than I do. Have I just been lucky? Here is a quick run 
down of how I brew: For every 5 gals of beer I want to make I boil 1 gal 
of water with 1 tsp. of gypsum, 3/4 tsp. citric acid, and 1 tsp. of salt 
for water treatment. I use 8# of dried malt, and 1-1/2 # grain. I hold the 
temperature at around 150 for an hour or so then bring it to a boil, add 
the final hops, and let it sit (unheated) for around 20 mins. I sparge it 
through a strainer, using the rest of the water to rinse the mash/wort. 
This also cools the wort sufficiently to allow pitching the yeast. I use a 
starter of 7 grams dried yeast (per 5 gals) that I make as I prepare the 
wort, putting the yeast in the starter at 90 degrees. Primary fermentation 
is done in a garbage pail (hence the name "Garbage Pale Ale") and after 
the foam settles, (usually 2-3 days) rack it into carboys, let it stay there as 
long as I can stand it, and bottle with 3/4 cup corn sugar per 5 gal. The 
beer always turns out clear and tasty. Any feedback welcome!

Anyway, the yeast finally took off, producing a huge head on the beer. I 
begin to believe in divine intervention. Thanks to all for your replies.

BTW, I made an experimental batch using food grade liquid malt that I 
got for 1 per #. If it turns out drinkable, I'll let you know. Could be good 
for poverty brew.



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1386, 03/31/94