HOMEBREW Digest #1391 Wed 06 April 1994

Digest #1390 Digest #1392

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Homebrew Digest #1389 (April 04, 1994) (DSHEA)
  Dry ice/Sulfite/Rubber smells (Mike Dix)
  Extract Brew Bashing (Bob Guerin)
  WANTED:  Brewmaster-study Materials (Richard Stueven)
  Extract vs. All-grain (npyle)
  Modifying a Gott/Rubbermaid 5 gallon cooler (Jay Lonner)
  RE: temp controller (William Nichols)
  Grain bed depth vs. extraction rate (Domenick Venezia)
  Zima bashing (PETER J VOELKER)
  Hops Cultivation- Sources for Rhizomes?  Good Books? (Gerald P. Young )
  Extract vs. All Grain (GNT_TOX_)
  HBD cloning? (btalk)
  Organic Controls for Hops Critters (Aaron Morris)
  Keg Poppet O-ring Removal? (GANDE)
  Re: Irish Moss (again?) and extract beers (Jeff Frane)
  RE: decoction mashing (Jim Dipalma)
  A brewer from the Holyland to visit US (Eran Navoth)
  Hoop roots. ("Daniel R. Sidebottom")
  Sampling Tubes and Maltier Ale (Rick Starke)
  Micro's using extract (Chris Lyons)
  Barleywine?!? (braddw)
  DEATH THREATS (Jack Schmidling)
  Toronto Brewpubs ? (Paul Ferrara)
  Side-by-Side refrigerator tips (gorman)
  Re: Kegging FAQ??? (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Saints (PRATTE)
  Alcohol Content of BudMillCo (Jack St Clair)
  correction (Mark A Fryling)
  Brewing Schools (yeebot)
  EBC methods reference (David Taylor)
  Irish moss (Steve Armbrust)
  Extract vs All Grain (Dennis Davison)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 11:38:39 EST From: DSHEA at medisense.com Subject: Homebrew Digest #1389 (April 04, 1994) I am responding to todays entry: > >------------------------------ > >Date: 02 Apr 94 10:50:18 EST >From: Richard Nantel <72704.3003 at CompuServe.COM> >Subject: Finings at bottling stage? > >I've been adding gelatin finings to the secondary with good success. >Due >to a slightly inferior extraction rate, my current batch of ale ended >up somewhat short of 5 imperial gallons. I'm not doing a secondary >fermentation on this batch for two reasons: First, since I use 5 >imperial >gallon carboys, I'd have to top up with about half a gallon of water >in >racking to a secondary, thus lowering my SG. Secondly, the recipe >calls for >a one-stage fermentation. It seems that if I add finings to the >primary, I'll just stir up the sediment. > >My question is this: has anyone tried adding gelatin finings at the >bottling stage? I rack from the primary to a carboy in mixing in the >priming sugar at the bottling stage so I could just add the gelatin >then. >Any ideas? Will the gelatin added at this stage affect negatively the >conditioning of this batch? > >Richard Nantel >Montreal, Quebec, Canada >private email to: rnantel at cam.org To answer your finings question, yes - I have been successfully adding gelatin at bottling time. I boil one pot of water with the bottling sugar and ascorbic acid, and a slowly heat a second with just a tablespoon of gelatin. Stop heating when the gelatin is fully dissolved. Both get added to the carboy after racking just prior to bottling. It clears the beer very nicely. I have noticed that it causes the sediment to stick to the sides of the bottle somewhat, so after a week or two in the bottle I give a quick twist to each bottle. The sediment releases from the sides and falls nicely to the bottom in a day or two. Good luck. - --------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Shea, MediSense, Inc. PH: (617) 895-6146 *** I can be reached on the Internet at David.Shea at medisense.com *** - --------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 94 14:36:16 PDT" From: Mike Dix <mdix at dcssc.sj.hp.com> Subject: Dry ice/Sulfite/Rubber smells bwg/dry Over the past few years I have taken several excellent extension courses at UC Davis on small scale winemaking. Some nuggets I have picked up (and hopefully remembered correctly!) relate to recent questions on the HBD: dry ice: Dry ice is often used to cool primary white wine ferments. Depending on how it was made, it might contain oil, or make the wine taste funny. Give it a taste test (let some sublime in some water and taste the water) before using in your precious wine - or beer. sulfites: Sulfites have been used in winemaking for thousands of years, but sensitivity appears to be a recent phenomenon. Wine yeasts produce some sulfite. With decreasing wine pH, less SO2 is needed for the same degree of protection. If the pH were to drop, SO2 would come out of the wine. Wine pH typically is between 3 and 4. It is quite stable in the bottle. Interestingly, salad bars, which have become popular in the past 25 years, use (or used) sulfites to prevent oxidative browning. When acidic dressings are added to essentially neutral pH salad greens, the result is a blast of SO2, not good for an asthmatic. I am willing to believe that wines are getting the bad rap for sulfites that salad bars deserve. Personally I use sulfite on wine grapes. Crushed fruit should be lower pH than beer, so no SO2 should come out when the two are mixed. I think for a fruit beer I would use sulfite, or nothing, if the fruit was unblemished. You can measure SO2 concentration with "Titrets." rubber smells: In wine, rubber or burnt match smells indicate elemental sulfur. Sulfur is used in the vineyards to combat mildew. I don't know where it could come from in beer fermentation. Mike Dix Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 14:17:21 -0800 From: bguerin at orincon.com (Bob Guerin) Subject: Extract Brew Bashing Jack writes (regarding the Tumbleweed Grill and Microbrewery using extracts): > I guess my question from a business point would be, "why bother?" It ends up > being an eatery with a half hearted brewery and one might just as well buy > good craft beer as take all the pains to make mediocre beer. > <... other insulting remarks> I have never understood this holier-than-thou attitude that some all-grain brewers have with respect to extract brewing. Just because all-grain brewing can produce better beer, that does not mean that extract beers are *mediocre*. Take a look at previous winners of the AHA NHC and you'll find many extract brews. If you choose to go all-grain, that's fine. If you choose not to drink extract beers, that's fine too. But don't bash those who decide to brew with extracts. Bob Guerin (bguerin at orincon.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 16:02:15 -0700 From: Richard Stueven <gak at wrs.com> Subject: WANTED: Brewmaster-study Materials WANTED: Any and all publications or other resources concerning brewing and recipe development for a 7- to 15-barrel microbrewery. I know "The New Brewer" is a place to start...what else is out there? I'll pay you one beer for every pointer that I can use! have fun gak Richard Stueven, Castro Valley CA gak & gerry's garage, brewery and hockey haven Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 94 13:06:57 MDT From: npyle at n33.ecae.stortek.com Subject: Extract vs. All-grain Jack writes about Scott's comments of Kinney's extract-based microbrewery: J>I guess my question from a business point would be, "why bother?" It ends up J>being an eatery with a half hearted brewery and one might just as well buy J>good craft beer as take all the pains to make mediocre beer. S>Kinney suggested that when I make my next stout, I use extract and S>specialty grains because the strong flavor would more than cover any S>flavor benefits from the pale grain.... J>Misery loves company? I don't think I saw the words "mediocre" or "Misery" in the original post. Also, I like to support the locals, and I suspect that is common. I doubt seriously it would make sense to pay a middle man a profit on a "good craft beer" when you can do it yourself, take pride in that, make a profit, etc. etc. etc. Later, Jack questions Kinney's statement: K>Town water departments are notorious for playing with the water. K>That translates into wildly variable extraction efficiencies. J>Is this just a rhetorical statement to be taken with a large dose of salt? J>If not, I would be interested in what you consider "wildly variable" and J>just what it is they do to caues this and why I never see this in my "town". For your reference, here are some of the more interesting numbers from my water report: Parameter Min. Avg. Max. (6 month) ------------------------ ----- ----- ----- Alkalinity, Total 18.0 29.8 51.0 Hardness, Total 9.0 20.7 57.0 Hardness, Calcium 8.0 17.8 45.0 Dissolved Solids 22.0 68.0 128.0 This is a 6 month report; they vary even more over the entire 4 seasons. Do you consider 18 --> 51, or 9 --> 57, or 8 --> 45 "wildly variable" or a minor nuisance? The changes are based on whether water is fresh from the mountains, or sitting in a reservoir somewhere all summer (note that Kinney is in the mountains, like me). Also, high river flow rates change concentrations when compared to low rates, and rainfall washes salts from the countryside into the water systems. The water departments sometimes throw certain ions at it to precipitate out other ions (trying to lengthen the useful lifetime of their pipes). Believe me, they aren't concerned about how it affects the local brewers. For the homebrewer, I might call it a nuisance. For the pros, I'm with Kinney on this one. Norm Return to table of contents
Date: Monday, 4 April 94 19:02:47 CST From: LLDSC at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu Subject: MEXICAN BEERS Hey, Anybody out there have any formulas for a mexican-type beer (most hopefully akin to Carta Blanca). I remember reading in the Complete Joy thatmost of them come from a vienna malt type. I'm also wondering if I could brew one with an ale yeast since spring has sprung down here in Austin and things won't be cool (temperature wise) too much longer. You can e-mail private, or post if you thinks others might like. Keep on keepin' on, SCOTT LLDSC at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu Return to table of contents
Date: 04 Apr 1994 20:07:32 -0800 (PST) From: Jay Lonner <8635660 at NESSIE.CC.WWU.EDU> Subject: Modifying a Gott/Rubbermaid 5 gallon cooler Is there a recommended way to install a 3" (or so) long piece of 3/8" copper tubing in a 5 gallon cooler, in place of the stock push-button spout thingie? Getting the old spout out is no problem, but I'm kind of stuck with the next phase of this modification. At this point I'm thinking of drilling out a rubber stopper to accomodate the copper tubing and just ramming it in the hole left by the removal of the original spout, but that seems inelegant and dangerous (I can just see the stopper coming out -- whoosh! goes my sparge water all over the floor...). Thanks oodles for your suggestions. Jay. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 03 Apr 1994 20:12:51 From: bnichols at mlab.win.net (William Nichols) Subject: RE: temp controller Geoff Scott writes: >Anyone have straightforward plans for a thermostat controller >like the Airstat? A friend is looking with envy at the old >Honeywell that I have my beer fridge plugged into. We would >build one if anyone has a plan with a reasonably easy to obtain >parts list. While I like to rummage through electronic surplus >stores as much as next guy, I dont have much confidence in our >ability to make good substitutions. I recently accepted an old freezer which I put in my basement as my beer frig. The warmest setting on the built in thermostat, a '1' kept it around 20 deg. f. which was naturally too cold. I have an industrial temp. controller that accepts a J type thermocouple input that I hooked up to operate the freezer to maintain my set temperature. I hooked it up the same way that the existing t-stat works, just interupt one of the power lines going to the compressor. This is over-kill equipment though, the controller and thermocouple are worth at least a couple of hundred bucks, and I would like to free them up for more important tasks which require better accuracy. I looked at the controllers in Grainger, they had similar ones to the hunter air-stat for around $60 but I didn't like any of them although I could get many to work. Either the temp range was wrong, or the capillary tube was too long, or they werent sealed, or whatever. I am thinking about trying to get a replacement refrigerator t-stat and replacing my freezer t-stat with it. I'm not sure how much cheaper it would be but it would be smaller, simpler and easier to use because that is what is designed to do. It just won't display the actual temperature inside, but I will have a thermometer inside for that reason anyway. As for your original question about trying to build a controller- forget it! Most controllers take an input from a thermocouple. A thermocouple (TC) generates a voltage at the junction of dis-similar metals proportional to the temperature. Its not just reading like a voltmeter though. The voltage generated is on the order of a few millivolts and the output curve is not linear, the controller aproximates it by a series of complex polynomials! If you could find a controller as surplus and the price is right these are the comsiderations: If it doesn't come with a TC you have to know what kind it needs, there are many. If the input is 3 wires, it takes an RTD instead. An RTD is similar to a TC exept that it varies its resistance with temperature instead of voltage. Either kind can be purchased from a lab supply for $30 - $50 Check the output contact current rating. These contacts will switch the compressor on and off. The contacts in mine are rated for 6 amps and my freezer(beer frig) draws 5 amps- too close for comfort. I had to put in a relay to switch the frig., besides I would rather burn out the contacts on a few dollar plug in relay than my controller. It does make things a little more complicated though. Basically the controller operates the relay, and the relay switches the compressor on and off by interupting the AC power line. Wow this is long! Probably more than you ever wanted to know about tremperature controllers. Hopefully nobody will think I am wasting bandwidth. Cheers Bill Nichols <bnichols at mlab.win.net> Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 07:49:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com> Subject: Grain bed depth vs. extraction rate Michael Inglis suspects a correlation between low extraction rate and low grain bed depth. Jack Schmidling disputes this with his own anecdotal evidence. I reviewed my brewing logs and found extraction rates of 24-28 with the same grain bed depth. Then a 31 pt extraction with a substantially lower grain bed depth (changed mash tuns - equal insulation). I suspect that other brewing process variables swamp out whatever small effect grain bed depth per se may have on extraction rate, except at extremely low depths. My guess is that a shorter grain bed is much more susceptible to "channeling" and that Michael is seeing the effects of this channeling. (Two lizards are sunning themselves on a rock in the desert. One lizard turns to the other and says, "I have this nagging feeling I was someone named Shirley MacLaine in a previous life") My two cents: Let the grain bed settle for 10 minutes before starting the sparge. Never let the water level drop below the grain (unless batch sparging). Watch for separation of the grain bed from the walls of the lauter tun, and try stirring up half the grain bed depth about half way through the sparge. Domenick Venezia ZymoGenetics, Inc. Seattle, WA venezia at zgi.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 08:10:41 -0400 From: PETER J VOELKER <pv120859 at hvcc.edu> Subject: Zima bashing Hello all! Firstly, I'd like to get something off my chest. I'm tired of Zima bashing. Yeah, I know, they claim it's a "malt beverage". I called them up about it and they claim that it is essentially beer that they filter EVERYTHING out of before carbonating. Zima beverage is also a division of Coors brewing. But regardless of the trickery behind it's brewing and marketing, I like it! It's a nice refreshing summer party drink. I'm not ALWAYS in the mood for beer. So let's just let the stuff be. WE know it's not a malt bev. Secondly, I have a question about overcarbonation. I brewed a batch of extract beer just as I usually do, except this time my mini kegs (the greatest invention for the small scale homebrewer) bulged severely and my Grosch bottles nearly exploded. I let it ferment out completely and primed with 1/2 cup of corn sugar (a little less than normal for me). What could have caused the near death experience? Could my yeast (dried) have appeared to have finished, but when I bottled, it continued with the rest of the unfermented beer as well as the sugar? This is the only time it has ever happened to me (I've done about 20 batches so far). - --Peter Voelker Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 94 8:28:43 EDT From: Gerald P. Young <gpyoung at cbda9.apgea.army.mil> Subject: Hops Cultivation- Sources for Rhizomes? Good Books? I am interested in growing some hops plants this year and wanted to know if anyone had any experiences they would like to share. I would like to know where you bought your rhizomes and how you prepared soil, etc for cultivation and any other tips for successful hops growing in the mid-Atlantic part of the USA. Good Brewing to All, Jerry Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 94 09:18 EST From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU> Subject: Extract vs. All Grain Well, there's been a lot of debate on the extract vs. all grain issue. I only have 4 batches to my credit, but I've read a lot of material on brewing before I got started. I've never made a kit beer and went straight for the extract/specialty grain method of brewing. Well, I've read just about all I can read on All Grain, Noonan, Papzian, Miller, BT, Zymurgy, and I've come to one conclusion. All grain brewing takes a damn long time! Much too long if you have children who belong to little league, or the scouts, or you have a significant other that uses the kitchen to, say, cook meals. All grain in my household would involve me setting up house in my basement and using an entire Saturday to make my beer "better." I'm not willing to make that kind of commitment to my brew. I don't know if I ever will be. There is no other hobby that I have that requires me to use 8 hours or so at a shot without being able to stop. As a newbie, I must tell you that I am very turned off by all grain brewing (partial mash, maybe). because of the time and the expense involved in building a "mini-kitchen" in my basement. That's my 2 cents on the issue. Prosit! Andy Pastuszak Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 94 09:28:37 EDT From: btalk at aol.com Subject: HBD cloning? How come every once in a while I get an HBD that has a segment of a previousHBD inserted in the middle of it? Today's (Monday April 5) appeared to be a total duplication!! A case of DWI on the Internet? Bob Talkiewicz,<btalk at aol.com> Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 94 09:11:59 EDT From: Aaron Morris <SYSAM at ALBANY.ALBANY.EDU> Subject: Organic Controls for Hops Critters All of the discussion regarding growing hops and controlling the critters that infest hops vines leads me to recommend "Gardens Alive" as a source for organic controls. G.A. supplies all sorts of organic and biological controls for all sorts of gardeners' banes. Current queries have been about controls for aphids and spider mites, which can be controlled by using insecticidal soap sprays. The 'greenest' of gardeners may choose biological controls to combat aphids and mites. The biological controls consist of predatory insects to eat the 'bad bugs' and include lady bugs, green lacewings, praying mantis and others, all of which can be had form Gardens Alive. Gardens Alive 5100 Schenley Place Lawerenceburg, Indiana 47025 (812) 537-8650 Unual disclaimer: no association, just a very satisfied customer. Return to table of contents
Date: 5 Apr 94 15:04:39 GMT From: GANDE at slims.attmail.com Subject: Keg Poppet O-ring Removal? Hi, I've just sprung a leak in the gas side on one of my pin-lock kegs. It appears, upon compressing the valve inwards, that the o-ring inside the poppet is a little munched up. I removed the poppet from the keg but can't figure out how to remove the neo-peace-symbol-spring-dojigger that holds the whole mess in place. I considered "force" extraction but decided it would likely destroy any "memory" of the metal that holds it in place. There seems to be a lip of sorts at the bottom of the threads that it must get over in order to be removed. I'm sure someone has done this sucessfully, private EMAIL is fine. Thanks IA........Glenn Anderson EMAIL> GANDE at SLIMS.ATTMAIL.COM Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 07:12:22 -0700 (PDT) From: gummitch at teleport.com (Jeff Frane) Subject: Re: Irish Moss (again?) and extract beers Far be it from me to rush in where angels fear to tread (on Jack's side), but... in response to Kinney and Al, I have to say that my all-grain beers are *always* far better than my extract beers, even when I (very rarely) do a full boil extract batch. Of course, this may have to do with the quality of the ingredients; my all-grain batches are brewed entirely with either British or Belgian malts. But it may also have to do with the far-greater control I have over the process, and the ability to inject the artist into the beer (a little esoteric, maybe, but...). It may just be that I don't do extract batches very often, and that that is a separate skill -- but I did a lot of extract batches before I got into all-grain, and they were *never* what I really wanted. By my second all-grain beer I was brewing in the ballpark I had hoped for before. ===== And to beat the Irish Moss horse to death: I've used it with and without protein rests and I've used it with a reasonably wide variety of malts. In the quantities that George Fix suggested and that I've passed along, there have been astonishing increases in clarity and NO (that is ZERO) problems with head retention. That's ZERO, Al. - --Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 94 10:35:02 EDT From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma) Subject: RE: decoction mashing Hi All, Picking up the thread on the merits of decoction mashing: Lee Menegoni writes in HBD#1390: >Like other HBD posters I may just be parroting the conventional wisdom that >gets published once and repeated many times in other publications and thus >gets cannonized as truth... but this melanodin formation is supposed to >yeild a maltier flavor and aroma in the beer. An empirical data point, I recently brewed a steam beer, using a single infusion mash. I generally utilize decoction mashing with this style, but like a lot of other people, have found free time to devote to brewing to be an increasingly scarce commodity. I was trying to see if I could get similar results with a mashing procedure that requires less time. I used exactly the same water, grain, yeast, equipment as per usual (I brew this style frequently), the only difference was the mash procedure. I held the sugar rest at the same temperature as I always use for the decoction mashed versions. The resulting brew is lighter in color, thinner bodied, and has significantly less malt character than the decocted versions. I realize these are subjective impressions, but I'm a BJCP judge, and I found a pronounced difference in malt character between the two versions. >How effective the decoction >is may be influenced by the type of grain used. When I first started experimenting with decoction mashing, I tried using different kinds of base malt, M&F pale, a domestic 2 row strain (Klages), and Ireks undermodified German pilsner malt. I brewed about a dozen consecutive batches using decoction mashing, carefully logging extraction numbers, flavor and aroma characteristics. What I found was that the more highly modified malts produced only marginally higher extraction, on the order of 3%-5%, sufficiently small that it may even have been due to measurement error. With the Ireks malt, the improvement in extraction was considerable, 4-5 pts/lb/gal. However, even the highly modified malts produced beers that were darker in color, with a more pronounced malt character, especially in the nose, than previous brews using the same malts and single infusion mashing. With the Ireks malt, I also got that slightly sulfury character that occurs in a lot of European lagers, especially Bohemian pilsner. I still do far more single infusion mashes with highly modified malts than decoction mashes, since I brew mostly ales. For certain special beers, weizens and Euro-lagers that require a pronounced malty character, decoction mashing is the way to go, IMHO. >One of the finest Pilsners >I have had is brewed in Brattleboro Vt at McNeil's brew pub, he does a >decoction mash for this brew. Rich, incredibly malty, with a Saaz nose to die for, that Pils was the best beer I've ever had at any brewpub, and one of the best beers I've ever had, period. If in the Brattleboro area, McNeil's is a must. Cheers, Jim Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 08:55:33 -0700 From: Eran Navoth <eran at well.sf.ca.us> Subject: A brewer from the Holyland to visit US I will be on a business trip to the USA between 18-28 of this month. Beeing a homebrewer for almost a year now and latley turned all grain (Hi JS & Al K) I am eager to visit /meet my feellow homebrewers. I will be in San Francisco between 18-22, then in Boston and New York for a couple of days each. If you don't mind me paying you a short visit, or better, if you would just love to give me a hell of a time, or mybe know how I could have such a treat (and where), please drop me a line to the above mentioned address (my brothers) eran at well.sf.ca.us (yes he is also in Israel). Tips and pointers to must-see places, microbreweries, pubs etc. will be highly appreciated. Yours Truly, Nir Navot. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 1994 11:53:45 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel R. Sidebottom" <SIDEBODR at SCOBVA.COBLESKILL.EDU> Subject: Hoop roots. I would like to try and grow my own hoops. Where can I buy the roots? Any info on growing hoops would be helpful as well. Thank you! Daniel R. Sidebottom sidebodr at scobva.cobleskill.edu Daniel R. Sidebottom Coordinator of Computer Services Phone: (518)234-5258 Decnet: scobva::sidebodr Bitnet: sidebodr at snycobva Internet: sidebodr at scobva.cobleskill.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 94 12:11:19 EDT From: fastarke at rickstr.mawes.ingr.com (Rick Starke) Subject: Sampling Tubes and Maltier Ale Good Day Brew-Crew I am a relatively.... OK very... new brewer. While making our first batch (#6 got brewed this past Saturday) my brother attempted to sterilize our sampling tube with boiling water. Good plan EXCEPT it is plastic and is now horribly deformed (plastic surgery will not help :-( ) and fairly unusable What we have been doing is dropping the sterilized hydrometer in the batch for SG readings. Is this a problem? Will my readings be accurate? I know that sampling tubes are cheap, but I guess so are we. Another quick question... We brewed a Pale Ale which we were quite pleased with, so we decided to make another (the aforementioned #6). Either my brother or our supplier screwed up and gave us 1lb of 40 deg.L crystal malt, as opposed to 1/2 lb from the first time. (we also changed hops but that was on purpose... experimentation) My question... What can we expect the difference to be from using 2x the crystal? Outside the obvious hops taste difference that is. More alchohol ( gee.. maybe if we freeze... never mind)? Just a maltier Pale Ale? Inquiring minds are curious. Thanks. - -- Rick Starke fastarke at rickstr.mawes.ingr.com "Get crazy with the Cheese Whiz" Beck Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 94 12:59:35 EDT From: Chris Lyons <Chris.Lyons at analog.com> Subject: Micro's using extract Kinney is not only brew pub using extract. I seem to recall that a micro I visited in acadia last summer (forget the name, they made a brew named "Cadillac Stout") also made their beer from extract. Wasn't bad. I was more suprised that they were using dry yeast (at that time they were using Whitbread). Yes, good beers can be made with extract. Chris Lyons Return to table of contents
Date: Mon Apr 4 18:13:31 1994 From: braddw at rounder.rounder.com Subject: Barleywine?!? Hey all! This is my first posting and I'm glad to be part of the HBD. Recently a good friend of mine brought me a sixpack of "Old Knucklehead Ale", a barley wine brewed by The Bridgeport Brewing Co in Portland Ore. I've never been a fan of such strong ales but after this one I am rapidly changing my tastes! I was looking for a recipe (grain or extract for 5 gals) that would approximate that of the Old Knucklehead. Anybody have one? Any examples would be much appreciated. Also, has anyone out there ever brewed with apples? The thought of an apple-cinnamon lager entices me, especially since I live next to an Orchard! Happy Brewing, braddw at rounder.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 94 12:16 CDT From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: DEATH THREATS It frequently seems that the content and meaning of postings is far less important than the subject or status of the person questioned. Everytime I either engage KB in a discussion or broach the subject of extract brewing, I get swamped with hate mail, death threats and responses that totally ignore who said what and to whom. >From: <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com> >I support any brewpub that makes good brew. I don't care if they make it with extracts or all-grain. Good brew is good brew. One can only conclude that you think you are arguing we me or just felt like saying that. Unfortunately, it is nonresponsive to my question. The operation sounded like it was a monumental pain for the operator and not really what he would choose so I asked why bother? >From: Kinney Baughman <BAUGHMANKR at conrad.appstate.edu> > My statement stems from the time I went to Burlington, VT to brew beer with Greg Noonan at his pub. We started doing our water tests and the water was way off the usual mark. An hour later we tested again and got different results. Radical changes in the water in the space of an hour is what I call "wildly variable". That's interesting but it has nothing to do with your original statement or my question. You said: "Town water departments are notorious for playing with the water. That translates into wildly variable extraction efficiencies." To repeat the question: how do changes in the water translate into wildly variable extraction efficiencies? I don't doubt that the water changes but I expected you to tell me that the extract efficiency varried 20 or 30 percent from day to day and it was all because of the water. > Sure. There are methods for dealing with each one of these situations. The main point is that you can't take your water for granted. Water tests every day are an essential part of the commercial brewing process if you care at all about product consistency. All of the evils you have described other than the "extract efficiency" which you seem to have backed away from would present similar problems with extract brewing and must be dealt with just the same. I fail to see how any of this effects the decision in favor of extract. So far the only point you made is that it is cheaper and that only because of the labor involved which no one is arguing with. So, just as in homebrewing, people make extract beer because it is easier and all the rationalization is just that. They might also make good or even great beer but that is not the reason they use extract, it is a happy coincidence and the result of being good at it. >From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) >I'm confident in Kinney's brewing prowess and am sure that he wouldn't roll anything but very good beer out of his brewery. I did not challenge KB's brewing prowess or his beer, just his logic and the accuracy of statements he made. >From: "Anderso_A" <Anderso_A at hq.navsea.navy.mil> >Sorry Jack, but I don't agree. With what? >Excuse me as I don my asbestos underwear, I find nothing in your posting that I disagree with. I am beginning to think that all I need say is "EXTRACT" and it will start a whole deffensive thread without me uttering another word. Again, all I was doing was trying to clarify what KB had stated himself and asked why bother if it is so much trouble. js Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 1994 13:31:15 From: prf at cherry-semi.com (Paul Ferrara) Subject: Toronto Brewpubs ? I'll be attending a seminar in the Toronto area next week (Kitchner to be exact), and expect I'll have plenty of free time in the evenings to do some pub-hopping. Does anyone know of any good brewpubs (or any other good beer drinking establishments) in the area? Please respond by private email, to keep the clutter on the HBD low. THANKS ! Paul prf at cherry-semi.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 94 13:40:25 EDT From: gorman at aol.com Subject: Side-by-Side refrigerator tips Hello, I recently inherited an old, medium-sized side-by-side refrigerator. I'd appreciate any tips from folks experienced in using them for fermenting & serving beer. Some questions I have: 1. The freezer side is too small for a Cornelius keg. How would you set the temperature on the two sides to get the refrigerator side to the range 50-65F? Is it suboptimal to have the freezer side effectively turned off or should I be cooling it even though it's probably empty? 2. I'm thinking of putting my CO2 tank in the freezer side and drilling a hole for the air hose in the dividing wall. Any idea whether this is a good or bad idea? 3. I'm thinking of drilling a hole in either the door or the side of the refrigerator half for a tap. Any advice on this? Any thing else anyone can tell me in private email would be appreciated. If there's a large response, I'll gather the mail and repost. Thanks, Bill Gorman gorman at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 94 11:12:53 PDT From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: Re: Kegging FAQ??? >>>>> "Rob" == Robert Schultz <Robert.Schultz at usask.ca> writes: Rob> I have a note about a kegging FAQ under production. Rob> I tried responding to the orginiator (but my mail bounced Rob> - -- IN%"trl at photos.wust1.edu"). Rob> Can anyone tell me what the status of the Kegging FAQ is? I am the original volunteer to edit the Kegging FAQ. Shortly after I requested contributions, Alan Richer uploaded his own FAQ to sierra.stanford.edu which has the filename "kegging_info". This is what is being used as the kernel of the Kegging FAQ. It is an excellent beginning, but it has been felt by myself and others that there is lots of room for other topics Alan did not cover. The Kegging FAQ is still in progress with a couple of volunteers other than myself, but none of us is getting a lot of time to put towards it since our employers who provide our Internet connections don't pay us to work on the FAQ. I apologize profusely for the loooooong delay on this, and to assist all of you who want to know about kegging, I am more than happy to 1)answer your questions from my personal knowledge, and 2)troll through the collected materials to answer any of those I cannot answer myself. All I ask is that you have first downloaded the kegging_info from sierra.stanford.edu and found it to not answer your questions. Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814 Email: hollen at megatek.com Staff Software Engineer Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 14:13:44 EST From: PRATTE at GG.csc.peachnet.edu Subject: Saints This weekend, while visiting a local monastary, I found a book that list the patron saints for almost every profession and discusses a little bit about there life. In answer to Aaron Morris' question (sorry, I know this has been posted before), the patron saint of brewers is St. Augustine of Hippo (the book also listed two "second string" saints, one of them being a St. Luke). Apparently, St. Augustine was given this distinction for the life he led before going on to great deeds. It seems that he was a bit of a party animal and philanderer, keeping a mistress for 15 years and fathering a child. What an excellent role model for homebrewers. John Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 94 11:12:13 PST From: Jack St Clair <Jack_St_Clair at ccm.hf.intel.com> Subject: Alcohol Content of BudMillCo Text item: Text_1 In HBD#1390, Brian Cecil asked about the alcohol content of Bud, Millers, and Coors. I can't vouch for his state but can tell you that it does vary considerably depending on the state (or in some cases, county) laws regarding alcohol control. California laws state that anything called beer MUST be less than 4%. Thank the wine lobby for that one. Several states restrict beer to 3.2% by volume. BTW, this generally does not apply to Ales and Malt Liquors which is why on some imports (EKU, Salvatore, etc.) the label may be overstamped with the words "Malt Liquor". The best thing to do is call the Alcohol Beverage Control organization in you state to find out. If several of our fellow homebrewers want to do this and send me their findings, I'll compile the results and post it. Might be interesting. Jack St.Clair Portland, Oregon Jack_st_clair at ccm.co.intel.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 94 14:22:49 EDT From: Mark A Fryling <mfryling at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Subject: correction A thousand pardons, It has come to my attention that in my Oktoberfest recipe that I posted yesterday there were several omissions and a mistake. First I used Wyeast #2124 Bohemian (not Bavarian) Second, for those of you not using Ragers (or anyone elses) IBU formula, here are the hop levels: 14g of Hallertau N. Brewer at 7.7% AA for 60 min => 13 IBU 23g Tettnang at 4.2% AA for 60 min => 12 IBU 39g Hallertau Hersbrucker at 2.3% AA for 15 min => 3 IBU Hope this clears confusion, if not you can ask me directly. Mark Fryling <mfryling at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 94 15:56:26 EDT From: yeebot at aol.com Subject: Brewing Schools Howdy y'all, By chance, would there be any graduates of either the UC Davis or Seibel schools of brewing on the HBD? Am I missing any other US schools? And would you be willing to share your experiences and advice with a guy who'd like to get a "proper" brewing education? I received literature from both schools but it failed to mention what any of their graduates are doing these days. (IMO, a neccessary data point.) My personal preferences (if it even matters) lie towards Belgian style beers. I promise to edit and re-post for all you other future Brewmeisters if I get a response. A million thanks, Mike yeebot at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 14:09:01 -700 (MDT) From: David Taylor <dptaylor at lamar.ColoState.EDU> Subject: EBC methods reference I am looking for the EBC standard methods reference. Can anyone give me a more complete reference for the standard analytical methods used by European Brewers? I am interested in obtaining a copy. Thanks, Dave Taylor dptaylor at lamar.ColoState.edu - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 94 13:28:11 PST From: Steve Armbrust <Steve_Armbrust at ccm.hf.intel.com> Subject: Irish moss Text item: Text_1 I've heard the discussions about the value of Irish Moss, but I've stopped using it because I think I can taste the difference between my own beers that were brewed using it and those that weren't. Those that used Irish moss had a slight unpleasant taste that I couldn't explain away otherwise. I'd rather have a little haze than an off flavor. So my question is, has anyone else observed this? Or, am I not using Irish moss correctly? (I add IM with 15 minutes left to the boil, about 1 teaspoon, chill with an immersion chiller, and ladle into a carboy through a screen, using the whole hops that accumulate to filter out what shouldn't be there.) Steve Armbrust Steve_Armbrust at ccm.hf.intel.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 16:54:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Dennis Davison <exe01679 at char.vnet.net> Subject: Extract vs All Grain I agree with Andy Anderson's and Al's comments in HBD 1390 about all-grain verses extract. I too have made some wonderful extract beers. The keys to a successful extract beer are: 1) Stick with a high quality light extract (I prefer Munton & Fison Dry) 2) Use high quality specialty grains 3) Always use a Liquid Yeast with a strong starter 4) Have a good recipe 5) Remember to sterile your equipment Yes, I do profess that I can tell the differance between All grain beers and extract beers in competitions. However, I also feel that I can miss maybe 10 to 15 percent because of the care the brewer put into the beer. Remember, good quality all grain beers need the finest malts so stick with the finest extracts. For Andy Ross about the GW Kent Lactic Acid: Sorry Andy, the lactic acid you have is to raise the acidity of your mash not to give the lambic character to your beer. The acid is 88% pure. For Greg Bishop Bottling from kegs HBD 1389: Use a counter pressure bottle filler. Most Homebrew stores carry them. They start at about $30.00 and can run several hundred depending on style. This is the only way to bottle beer properly. Dennis Davison exe01679 at char.vnet.net Exec-Pc, Milwaukee, Wi 414-789-4210 99 carboys of beer on the floor, 99 carboys of beer. If one of these carboys should happen to keg, then 98 carboys of beer on the floor. Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1391, 04/06/94