FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Tumbleweed and mediocrity (Kinney Baughman)
  Danny Dumps (ELQ1)
  A "stout" request and a lymerick (dyeater)
  Partial mash techniques (Stephen Hudson)
  Copper and Stainless Steel (Jim_Merrill)
  Re: Extract vs. All Grain (Jim Grady)
  HBD Testing (Brian J. Cecil)
  Ref. Thermostat (Kevin Emery DSN 584-2900  )
  irish moss/all grain time/extract vs. all-grain (06-Apr-1994 0858 -0400)
  beer competitions (TODD CARLSON)
  RE: temp controller (David Deaven)
  lambic recipes request ("Glen Flowers 601-7253, LFF-139")
  15 gal sanke kegs as fermenters (Bob Jones)
  RE: temp controller (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Re: Keg Poppet O-ring Removal? (Dion Hollenbeck)
  EBC references (Michael Sharp)
  *Malt Berverages* (dmorey)
  Re: Modifying a Gott/Rubbermaid 5 gallon cooler (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Kill Jack Schmidling? (GANDE)
  Re : Raspberry Porter (eclus.dnet!pershall)
  Coffee Brew and Keg Parts (JEBURNS)
  Changing Gotts (Carl Howes)
  I'm new and want to brew beer (Roland Tropper)
  lagering (Bryan L. Gros)
  First mash questions ("Paul Sovcik, Pharm.D.")
  More about all-grain (SWEENERB)
  [homebrewed] temp controllers (Dan `Hefe' Wiesen)
  Irish Moss (Rich Larsen)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 05 Apr 1994 17:52:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kinney Baughman <BAUGHMANKR at conrad.appstate.edu>
Subject: Tumbleweed and mediocrity

As the Netgods would have it, the following remarks didn't make it to my
email box yesterday.

In a fit of self-restraint, I'll holster my EASYFLAMER (tm) and respond to 
Jack with more respect than is deserved:
 
>>I asked Kinney: `Can't you brew a better beer using all-grain?'
>>The answer is basically, Yes. But.....
 
> Interesting comment that should not be lost in this rosy scenario of an 
> extract brew pub.

> I guess my question from a business point would be, "why bother?"  It ends up 
> being an eatery with a half hearted brewery and one might just as well buy 
> good craft beer as take all the pains to make mediocre beer.
 
Have you tried the stout we had on tap last week?  Or the IPA we served up 
a couple of months ago?  No?

So much for my first point. 

The question we had to ask ourselves was whether a brewpub would be commercially
successful in a town of 12,000 people, 12,000 students and a couple of million
tourists a year.  Seemed possible.  But we didn't want to spend $100,000 only to
find out that it didn't.  So we decided to take a look at what we could do with
no borrowed money and the Tumblweed operation I've described is what we came up
with. 

>From a business point of view, the reason we bothered has to do with the fact 
that we're making money.  And we're making that money by bringing a handcrafted
beer to an area that's never had one.  Ever.  There've been a few brandy stills
around here in the past but never a brewery! :-) 

> Aside from satisfying your curiosity, I find it hard to understand why one 
> would be so tempted, particularly in light of his admission that one can make 
> better beer using all grain.

Emphasis on the 'can'.  The point is, and what I've taken great pains to 
explain to my buddies here in the HBD, is that we had some hard economic 
realities to face in this venture.  And we decided, indeed have proved, that 
we could create a commercially viable brewery using extract for the 
fermentable portion of our beers.  Consider that most of us who tarry in these 
electronic halls have had the chance to quaff the offerings of dozens of 
bright, shiny, expensive brewpubs.  How many times have we walked away 
disappointed, remarking to ourselves that our homebrew was better than that 
stuff?  These establishments proved to me that going all-grain is no 
*guarantee* you're going to make better beer.  I took those experiences very 
much to heart during the planning for Tumbleweed. 

So where do we go from here businesswise?  This past week-end we looked at a 
building on the outskirts of town, complete with two walk-in coolers that 
are big enough to house about a dozen 10 bbl. fermenters each.  We've
established our reputation as decent brewers and we have people lined up at
the bar to invest in a small regional keg microbrewery should we/I decide
to make the plunge.  

A rosey scenario?  Not at all.  It's an exciting decision, jam-packed with 
reality, that we're looking square in the face right now.  All because we
had the balls to cut square against the grain (no pun intended) of
conventional wisdom. 

There's nothing half-hearted about our brewery, Jack.  In fact it's all 
heart...and blood and sweat and beers.  We're doing what a lot of readers of 
the HBD, including me, have only been able to dream about until now. 

So don't think for a moment that we're having a miserable time.  We're all 
smiles, laughing at you and all the rest of the naysayers who said it couldn't 
or shouldn't be done. 

Fire up the cough-drop pot boys!  They're running out of beer downstairs!!!

Again.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Kinney Baughman                      |      Beer is my business and
  baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu       |      I'm late for work.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Tue, 5 Apr 94 15:29:53 PDT
From: ELQ1%Maint%HBPP at bangate.pge.com
Subject: Danny Dumps

     The brew formula contained herin is not mine, just forwarding it for 
   my cousin, Folks I give you Danny Dumps..
   
     Shoot Howdy folks, My name is Danny Dumps, I own the McKinnleyville
   trailer park and auto wrecking, and operator of the Dumps Homebrewery.
   Thru the sheer ingenuity, thrift and good hammer mechanics I have 
   perfected the home brewery in its simplist design.

   First, I do a partial mash, my mash tun in a 90 cup coffee maker, the
   element is wired to a switch that regulates heat via a theromometer, for
   sparging I have a pinto engine with a 170 deg. thermostat that dribbles 
   just the right rate of sparge water on my tun. I then mix with extract, 
   not just any extract, Karo to be exact, and I use Karo dark for my Bock
   brews, both of these are available in any supermarket and ferment out
   a very clean crisp brew, although I have slight problems getting a good    
   head, it is not a big social problem.   
    On to the fermenter, since I make big batches, I have found a 15 gal
    crock tub with a lid that seals pretty good. After some pratice and 
   lack of a brew shop, I have found a very good substitute for yeast, its
   called Rid-X tm. and available at some store and almost all hardware
   stores, I make a starter and pitch the  whole box, I get activity in 
   about 15 minutes.  
     I keg, or should I say I extinguish, in other words, I fill a sterile 
   water fire extinguisher and let it condition, the first mug of brew
   cleans the sediment and with the handy guage on the "keg" I can tell 
   how much brew is left.  Another handy feature is I take my "keg" to
   games, shows, the beach anywhere  brew is not allowed. You never know 
   when you need a fire extinguisher.
   These are carefully lagered about one week, and served chilled with a
   lemon to take the sweet bite out a bit, see I have yet to  figure out
   a good cheap hop substitute. Until then suck a lemon, sip a brew.
    Next week I'll go into how I finally suceeded in getting the nut on the
   valve on the inside of a 7.5 gal. carboy. 
    Happy brewing and if ever in town be sure to stop by;
   Danny Dumps Trailer Park, Auto Wrecker and Home Brewery.
    Back to you Murray..
   Ed Quier for D. Dumps                      ELQ1 at PGE.COM
   

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Date: Tue, 05 Apr 1994 17:52:23 -0800
From: dyeater at wpo.borland.com
Subject:  A "stout" request and a lymerick

I've only been reading the HBD for a few weeks but I've found it very
entertaining, informative and aggrivating. The aggrivation stems from
my lack of understanding of the dialect (argot?) you all speak (I don't
know RIMS from bungs) as I have just begun making home brew and
I'm still mighty surprised that my first batch of beer came out fairly
drinkable.

Even though I've only brewed two batches (haven't tasted the second
one yet), I'm anxious to make a stout. Anyone out there have a good
extract recipe for a stout that resembles Sheaf or Guinness? I've been
drinking a lot of Sheaf lately and would really like to make something
like it. As I was drinking one yesterday this lymerick came to me. I give
it to you.

I was tossing some compounds about
To invent an elixer for gout.
   This mud in a beaker
   Tastes like wet dog and old sneaker.
My Gawd! I've created a stout!
 


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Date: Wed, 06 Apr 1994 17:15:00 EDT
From: mop3 at midas.ho.BOM.GOV.AU (Stephen Hudson)
Subject: Partial mash techniques

G'day.

	This is my first posting to the HBD, so please take it
easy on me!

	My question is in relation to the partial mash
techniques in Papazian's TNCJOHB. After a few years away from
homebrewing (kits) I will be starting up again shortly, using
the partial mash method, on the road to full-grain brewing.

	In his book Papazian has a section on mash-extract
brews, but unfortunately one area is unclear to me. I do
understand the recipes through the mashing, sparging, boiling
wort, adding hops etc. However, the "Sparge into fermenter and
cold water" has me stumped. I realise you have to add cold
water to bring the batch up to 5 gallons, but the "sparge into
fermenter" I need help on. I guess I need hot water, but how much
and at what temp? 

	If someone could please explain exactly what happens
here, I'd be most thankful. BTW has anyone tried any of these
recipes? 

TIA

- --

Stephen Hudson				Telephone : +61 3 669-4563
Cataloguing Section			Fax	  : +61 3 669-4254
Bureau of Meteorology			Email: S.Hudson at BoM.GOV.AU
Melbourne Victoria AUSTRALIA


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Date:           Wed, 6 Apr 94 7:41 EDT
From: Jim_Merrill at vos.stratus.com
Subject:        Copper and Stainless Steel

Over the weekend my father in-law, a phd chemist, noted
that having copper in DIRECT contact with stainless steel
causes a reaction. We called someone who works for a
company that manufactures machines used in the food industry
and they agreed. Something about a galvanic reaction creating
a battery like situation as electrons pass from one metal
to the other. He said they use primarily 316 stainless
steel and that the FDA would not allow a copper to stainless
connection to come in contact with any food product. He seemed
to think that the stainless would leach out metals.

So the big question. How does this come into play with my
"currently being constructed" keg boiler ? (Stainless Steel
nipple and a copper connection on the inside) Since it will be
broken down after each brewing session, does the actual contact
time make this negligible ? Does the PH of the wort come into
factor here ?

Has anyone tried to bend 1/2" SS welded tubing ?

Jim Merrill
Jim_Merrill at vos.Stratus.Com

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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 8:01:42 EDT
From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Extract vs. All Grain

Andy Pastuszak comments on the uninterrupted time required to make
all-grain beer and I'd like to say that it doesn't have to be that way.
Several have written about doing overnight mashes in the oven.  My
method is based on the fact that I have 3 small children who would
rather play with Dad than have Dad make beer.  Here's what I do:

1. I get up REAL early on a Saturday morning (~5:00 am), make some
   coffee (better idea than homebrew at this hour), crush the
   grain, heat the mash water and mash in.  I use a stock pot with a
   copper manifold in an insulated box as my mash/lauter tun (for me it
   was cheaper than buying a cooler and allows me to do a step mash).  I
   adjust the temp. and put the stock pot in the insulated box.

2. If I am doing a step mash, I leave it there for ~30 min for the
   protein rest & then raise to saccharification temp on the stove top.
   Once the mash is at saccharification temp, I put it into the
   insulated box. 

   If I am doing a simple infusion mash, then of course, this part is 
   skipped.

3. Leave it until it is convenient to do the sparge.

4. By now, the rest of the house is waking up and we do whatever we had
   planned for that Saturday morning.

5. 6-8 hours after starting the saccharification rest, sparge and then
   boil as for an extract batch.  The length of the saccharification
   rest is based primarily on when the boys take their nap.

I am very pleased with the beers I have made this way and also glad to
have some weekend left after making beer.  (As far as the current
argument goes, I have made some very fine extract beers too).

With an insulated box, I will frequently lose only a few degrees over
the time of the mash.  I personally do not think that that is essential.
I think as long as the temp is in the right range for the first part of
the mash you're o.k.  According to what I recollect, most of the enzymes
are denatured after a 90 min mash anyhow.

I agree with Andy; when I read Miller, my response was that there
was no way I would ever spend a day sitting over a pot in the kitchen
making sure the temperature stays within a 2 degree window.
Fortunately, there is another way.

Send e-mail if you would like info on how I built my insulated box - it
takes an evening to do.
- --
Jim Grady             
grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com

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Date:  6 Apr 94  7:33:28 ES
From: Brian J. Cecil <Brian_J.._Cecil at wecnotes.semcor.com>
Subject: HBD Testing

This is a test.

                                            **EXTRACT**

End of Test.

:-)



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Date:     Wed, 6 Apr 94 8:17:14 EDT
From: Kevin Emery DSN 584-2900 <ksemery at cbda9.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Ref. Thermostat

I sent this to Zymurgy, but thought I would post here.  I make no
guarantee for your success!!  |-)

                    Refrigerator Blues:

     I have only been brewing for about a year now, and just
decided to try my hand at Lagering.  The thermostat in my Kenmore
refrigerator wasn't accurate enough for good temperature control,
a necessity for lagering.  All I needed to do was to install a new
thermostat into the old Kenmore. 

     Unfortunately, every homebrew supplier I phoned (Coast to
Coast) said the same thing.... "We don't carry thermostats
anymore", or "The company that manufactured them wasn't selling
enough to be profitable and therefore discontinued the line".  

     Not to be swayed from the task at hand, I purchased a Hunter
Model 40007 Digital Thermostat at Hechingers for $29.99 and went to
work.  There is a number on the package to phone if you have
problems which will put you in touch with one of their service 
representatives.  The representative told me that I couldn't use
the model 40007 in my refrigerator.  I decided to give it a try
anyway.

     After taking out the Kenmore light housing and thermostat, I
was left with 4 wires, Black-Hot, White-Common Ground or Neutral,
Blue-to the Compressor and Green-Hard Ground.  The New thermostat
has 5 wiring connections.  RH-Red, Rc-Blue, W-White, Y-Yellow and
G-Green.  I connected the Hot (black) wire of the Kenmore to the
RH-Red terminal of the thermostat, and the Blue wire from the
compressor to the Yellow terminal.  I then finished out the circuit
by splitting the black lead at the thermostat connection and
running it to the push-button light switch.  The switch in turn is
connected to the light socket, and the circuit is completed when
the Ground (white) wire is connected to the light socket.   I
mounted the Thermostat on the back wall inside the refrigerator.

     I brewed a lager yesterday, and have the brew fermenting in
the refrigerator at 50 degrees.  The new thermostat is working
beautifully.  I can't wait to try my lager!!!

I have to admit that I can't hang a picture straight, so if I can
do this, anybody can!

Notes about the Model 40007 Digital Thermostat:  
   1.  It will only display  temp from 32 to 95 degrees.
   2.  It can only be set from 40 to 90 degrees.
   3.  It requires 3 AA batteries.
   4.  It will cycle when the temperature rises 2 degrees above the
temp setting




Kevin S. Emery

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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 09:09:16 EDT
From: 06-Apr-1994 0858 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: irish moss/all grain time/extract vs. all-grain

>Date:     Tue, 5 Apr 94 09:18 EST
>From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU>
>Subject:  Extract vs. All Grain
[...]
>if I ever will be.  There is no other hobby that I have that requires
>me to use 8 hours or so at a shot without being able to stop.

I'm able to do an all-grain batch, start to finish, in 3-4 hours, depending
on the problems I run into.  The best time was 3 hrs, the worst 4 hrs.  This
includes clean up.  I do a single-temp mash for 1 hr and have had extraction
rates of about 28 pts - which isn't too bad.   sparge for about 20-30 mins,
boil an hour, chill (10 mins), siphon into the fermenter, and clean up (i
do clean up along the way during the boil, etc).  it doesn't have to take
8 hours!  and, during my mash, i'm free to eat breakfast, work on the car, etc.

>Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 07:12:22 -0700 (PDT)
>From: gummitch at teleport.com (Jeff Frane)
>Subject: Re: Irish Moss (again?) and extract beers

>And to beat the Irish Moss horse to death: I've used it with and without
>protein rests and I've used it with a reasonably wide variety of malts.
>In the quantities that George Fix suggested and that I've passed along,

Do you add the IM at points other than the last 10-15 mins of the boil?  If
so, when, how much and why?

>Date: Tue, 5 Apr 94 12:16 CDT
>From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
>Subject: DEATH THREATS
[...] 
> >From: <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
> 
> >I support any brewpub that makes good brew.  I don't care if they make
> it with extracts or all-grain.  Good brew is good brew.
>  
> One can only conclude that you think you are arguing we me or just felt like 
> saying that.  Unfortunately, it is nonresponsive to my question.  

I'm not arguing with anybody.  I offered up my response as just another
data point, that's all.  lighten up mon.

>Date: Tue, 05 Apr 94 13:40:25 EDT
>From: gorman at aol.com
>Subject: Side-by-Side refrigerator tips

>2. I'm thinking of putting my CO2 tank in the freezer side and drilling a
>hole for the air hose in the dividing wall. Any idea whether this is a good
>or bad idea?

I don't suggest this.  Doesn't CO2 change its behavior slightly when cooled?
I have my CO2 tank outside the fridge.

>3. I'm thinking of drilling a hole in either the door or the side of the
>refrigerator half for a tap. Any advice on this?

It is pretty easy.  usually you have to drill through some sheet metal, some
insulation, and finally the plastic inside wall (might be metal).  they make
taps with various length shafts - so, you need to get a rough handle on how
thick your fridge wall is.  pretty easy to do, IMO.


jc

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Date: Wed, 06 Apr 94 09:55:57 EST
From: carlsont at GVSU.EDU (TODD CARLSON)
Subject: beer competitions

          I have recently brewed my best ever ale and would like to
          get some feedback from experienced judges by entering it in
          a homebrew competition (which I have never done before).

          Do I have to become a memeber of a local or national
          homebrewing club/association to enter competitions?

          How much does it cost to enter?

          How do I send my beer to a competition?

          Where are there competitions in the midwest region?

          Thanks

          todd
          carlsont at gvsu.edu

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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 09:20:30 -0500
From: David Deaven <deaven at ishmael.ameslab.gov>
Subject: RE: temp controller

  Some folks were looking to design their own temperature controller,
so I thought I'd add my $0.02.

  I was able to cheaply convert an old freezer into a fridge by just
hooking up an old thermostat (used for house heat/cool) to a relay
bought from Radio Shack.  The 'stat was not able to maintain 40F (how
many folks keep their house at that temp?) but I just bent the
bimetallic strip inside, and it now works like a champ in my father's
home brewery.  Just mount the 'stat inside the freezer, and put the
relay outside in a safe metal box.   Even if you buy the 'stat, this
solution is less expensive than others I've seen.  The temp. reading
on the face of the 'stat is of course inaccurate, but I assume you own
a thermometer to re-calibrate it.

David Deaven        deaven at ishmael.ameslab.gov
A504 Physics        tel 515-294-6878
Ames Laboratory     fax 515-294-0689
Ames IA 50011

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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 10:26 EST
From: "Glen Flowers 601-7253, LFF-139" <GFLOWERS at LANDO.HNS.COM>
Subject: lambic recipes request

anybody got a good (preferably tested) lambic recipe?
if you'd rather not post to the digest you can e-mail me at:

GFLOWERS at LANDO.HNS.COM

Cheers,
Glen Flowers

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Date: Wed, 06 Apr 1994 07:34:06 +0900
From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: 15 gal sanke kegs as fermenters

I would be interested in hearing peoples experiences with using 15 gal sanke
kegs as primary fermenters. After years of using carboys I'm concidering
switching to these 1/2 barrel kegs. Most of my reasons stem from the amount
of blowoff I have from the carboys. A 20% loss of beer is starting to really
bug me. Seems one could mount a valve on the underside of the keg and pretty
much use the keg without any other modification except the removal of the
valve assembly. I guess a stopper could be used to fashion an air lock or
blow off tube. I would plan on puting the same 10 gals in this new fermenter
and that would get me a 33% head space. As for the cleaning I would do all
the cleaning chemically. I have been using TSP and hot water and have had
great results with it.

Cheers,

Bob Jones
bjones at novax.llnl.gov



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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 07:51:13 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: RE: temp controller

>>>>> "Bill" == William Nichols <bnichols at mlab.win.net> writes:

Bill> Geoff Scott writes:
>> Anyone have straightforward plans for a thermostat controller
>> like the Airstat?  A friend is looking with envy at the old
>> Honeywell that I have my beer fridge plugged into.  We would
>> build one if anyone has a plan with a reasonably easy to obtain
>> parts list.  While I like to rummage through electronic surplus
>> stores as much as next guy, I dont have much confidence in our
>> ability to make good substitutions.  

Bill> If it doesn't come with a TC you have to know what kind it needs,
Bill> there are many. If the input is 3 wires, it takes an RTD instead.
Bill> An RTD is similar to a TC exept that it varies its resistance with
Bill> temperature instead of voltage. Either kind can be purchased from
Bill> a lab supply for $30 - $50

If you are thinking of building your own, I suggest that you use a
thermistor rather than a RTD.  An RTD has a *much* smaller range of
resistance change for the same temperature change than a thermistor
and it is therfore easier to build a circuit using a thermistor than
an RTD (IMHO).

dion

Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 07:58:37 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Keg Poppet O-ring Removal?

>>>>> "Glenn" == GANDE  <GANDE at slims.attmail.com> writes:

[  paraphrased - "How do I remove a bad poppet" ]

Remove the valve body from the keg.  Set the valve body on a hard
surface with the poppet up and the threaded end down.  Get a 1/4"
pinpunch or a phillips screwdriver or a 1/4" bolt and push down firmly
and steadily on the poppet in the top of the valve body.  It will
click and drop out.

Insertion is just the reverse, put the valve body threaded end up,
insert the poppet in upside down, and push it gently in until it
clicks.  When inserting, you should not use a screwdriver because you
need something with a flat end so you can push the poppet in squarely.

Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 07:57:12 PDT
From: msharp at Synopsys.COM (Michael Sharp)
Subject: EBC references

David Taylor <dptaylor at lamar.ColoState.EDU> writes:
>Subject: EBC methods reference

> 	I am looking for the EBC standard methods reference. Can anyone
> give me a more complete reference for the standard analytical methods used
> by European Brewers? I am interested in obtaining a copy.

Here is some work from the Mivrobiological Methods Sub-Committee:

	EBC Analytica Microbiologica
	J. Inst. Brew., March-April, 1977, Vol. 83, pp. 109-118

	EBC Analytica Microbiologica: Part II
	J. Inst. Brew., September-Octover, 1981, Vol. 87, pp.303-321

	EBC Analytica Microbiologica: Part II Continued
	J. Inst. Brew., July-August, 1984, Vol. 90, pp. 268-271

	EBC Analytica Microbiologica: Part III		
	J. Inst. Brew., July-August, 1984, Vol. 90, pp. 272-276


		--Mike

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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 10:20:05 -0500
From: dmorey at iastate.edu
Subject: *Malt Berverages*

Just a short comment everyone,

	Zima is a malt beverage since its alcohol is derived from
malt.  This doesn't mean that it will taste like beer!  Do wine
coolers taste like beer?  NO, but did you know that many of them use
MALT derived alcohol?  They do this because malt is MUCH cheaper than
fruit.  Anyone who has made a fruit beer from fresh fruit can tell you
this.  The people at Zima are just using this fact as a marketing
technique - plain and simple.
	Personally, I have noe desire to try Zima since there is so
many other beers out there for me to enjoy.  But to each there own.  I
just thought I would let you know that there are many other *malt
beverages* out there and if you ask me where I heard it or read it, I
will be forced to tell that some PINK ELEPHANTS told me.

I'm going to where streams of whiskey are flowing.   - The Pouges

Dan Morey

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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 07:47:41 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Modifying a Gott/Rubbermaid 5 gallon cooler

>>>>> "Jay" == Jay Lonner <8635660 at NESSIE.CC.WWU.EDU> writes:

Jay> Is there a recommended way to install a 3" (or so) long piece of
Jay> 3/8" copper tubing in a 5 gallon cooler, in place of the stock
Jay> push-button spout thingie?  Getting the old spout out is no
Jay> problem, but I'm kind of stuck with the next phase of this
Jay> modification.  At this point I'm thinking of drilling out a
Jay> rubber stopper to accomodate the copper tubing and just ramming
Jay> it in the hole left by the removal of the original spout, but
Jay> that seems inelegant and dangerous (I can just see the stopper
Jay> coming out -- whoosh! goes my sparge water all over the
Jay> floor...).

Jay> Thanks oodles for your suggestions.

Jay> Jay.

I am assuming that you will be doing something else with the copper
tubing than just letting it rest on the bottom?  Are you using this as
a mash tun?  Lauter tun ?  Both?

The reason I ask is that I have a 10 gal. Gott cooler and have
installed a bulkhead fitting to turn it into a mash/lauter tun.  If I
know what you are trying to do, I should be able to give you
instructions on what I did, or modify them to suit your intended use.

dion

Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California


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Date: 6 Apr 94 16:35:34 GMT
From: GANDE at slims.attmail.com
Subject: Kill Jack Schmidling?


Why does everyone jump all over Jack Schmidling? I've been reading
and posting to the HBD for 2 years now and whenever he say's
ANYTHING, a zillion posts are made to dispute his comments. I don't
always agree with his statements, but that's because I have a
different belief on how something is done. The posts I've seen
recently (and there's been a few) are getting so petty as to argue
syntax, who said what, etc.

I often wonder that if we all discussed these issues face to face
that tones and comments would be much less defensive. On the other
hand, disputing any of Jack's statements only seems to set him off.
Am I the only one tired of paying to read bantering, endless quotes,
and rhetorical responses? Take it to ALT.BEER.

If I'm out of line, you can flame me at GANDE at SLIMS.ATTMAIL.COM,
sorry for the BW consumption....

 ...Glenn

- ----







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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 11:32:52 -0400
From: tron!eclus.dnet!pershall at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re : Raspberry Porter

Lawrence,
	Last year I brewed a Raspberry Stout, following the recipe for
Cherry Fever Stout in Papazian's "Complete Joy of Homebrewing", except that
I substituted 5 lbs. of frozen raspberries (it was out of season for fresh
raspberries).  At the end of the boil, I removed my brewpot from the burner,
dumped all the (thawed) raspberries into the pot, put the lid on it, and let
them steep for 15 minutes.  I then dumped the contents of the brewpot
(raspberries included) into the cold water in my carboy and pitched the
yeast when cool.  The entire fermentation was in the primary (about three
weeks as I recall), and the resulting beer had a very noticable raspberry
flavor (no astringency or off-flavors that I could discern).  I just drank
the last bottle (a year later), and it still tasted great (although the
raspberry flavor had diminished somewhat).  The only problem I encountered
was during the initial fermentation.  I came downstairs one day after work,
and found that the blow-off hose had become clogged with raspberry goo and
enough pressure had built up to blow off the rubber hood on the fermenter --
raspberries and foam were everywhere!! (I really should have used a larger
diameter blow-off hose than the standard 3/8 inch stuff).
	Incidentally, I brewed the same recipe with raspberry extract a
few months ago, and acheived similar results (minus the blow-off problem, of
course).  Hopefully this has been helpful.

	-- Andy (pershall at eclus.bwi.wec.com)

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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 10:52:25 EST
From: JEBURNS at ucs.indiana.edu
Subject: Coffee Brew and Keg Parts


I have been considering adding ground coffee beans to the grains
during the sparging process, maybe some Jamaican Blue Mountain or
other good bean.  If anyone has a recipe that uses coffee and has
turned out well send me a post, or if you have tried this and want
to warn me....
Also, I would like an address for inexpensive keg parts and supplies.
I had the address of a place in Texas, but they have gone out of business.
I have two Cornelius kegs that I would like to start using....
Lastly, I know this has been comented on already but on the Michael Jackson
Beer Hunter series they tour several British brewpub type operations that
use extracts only.  It is probably very cheap to get extracts there since
many of the manufacturers are close at hand.  They showed the guy climbing
up a ladder and dumping this bucket of syrup into a steaming vat.  The
"brewery" was in what looked like an old chicken coop.  I guess these small
extract brewpubs are pretty common over there.  Something to do with high
taxes on bottled beer.  It looked like they were just shooting for something
that could be consumed almost as soon as it was brewed.

Dave in Bloomington
jeburns at ucs.indiana.edu

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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 12:34:37 EDT
From: sdlsb::73410 at sdlcc (Carl Howes)
Subject: Changing Gotts

Jay Lonner asks about replacing the stock spout in his Gott cooler.  Having
just done this last week I offer the following.  Get a 1/2 inch bulkhead
fitting and two 1 inch o-rings.  Drill the spigot hole out to 1 inch
diameter.  The fitting is a two piece affair consisting of a hollow (1/2
inch I.D.) shaft and a nut.  Put the shaft through the hole in the cooler
and tighten the nut with an o-ring on each side of the cooler wall.  To
complete the picture, I soldered a short piece of pipe and a 3/8 hose barb
to the outside end and assembled (tinkertoy style - no solder) a rectangular
manifold from 1/2 inch pipe and elbows for the inside which just fits, and
rests on, the bottom of the cooler.  As a cautionary note, make sure the
solder you use meets federal standards under the Safe Drinking Water Act.
The ones that do will be so labelled and cost more.  Some of the ones that
don't are outright poisonous.  Have fun!

Carl
73410 at sdlcc.msd.ray.com


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Date: Wed, 06 Apr 1994 11:31:05 MEZ
From: Roland Tropper <tropper at EDVZ.SBG.AC.AT>
Subject: I'm new and want to brew beer

Hi brewers,

After subscribing to HBD I also decided to brew (or better try to brew)
beer but I'm totally new in this field. I'd appreciate it if somebody
could tell my which tools I need, where I could get recipies and all the
other important things I don't know about.  

Thank you very much,

Roland Tropper
Salzburg, Austria

Please e-mail to: Tropper at dsb835.edvz.sbg.ac.at or post.



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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 10:08:18 PDT
From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros)
Subject: lagering

What is the fermentation schedule for a lager?  when does the diacetyl
rest come in?
My guess is something like:
1.  primary at around 50F for a week
2.  secondary at 50F for another week
3.  diacetyl rest for two days at 58F
4.  slowly lower temperature to 34F for two or three weeks

Note that 2,3,and4 are all in the same carboy.  correct?

Do people worry about sucking in the water in the air lock as the
temperature is lowered in step 4?
And to repeat someone's question from a week ago, what if you
bottle/keg after step 3 and then lager for two or three weeks?

BTW, I'm talking  specifically about a 1.068 bock
Thanks.
                           - Bryan

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Date:         Wed, 06 Apr 94 12:07:48 CDT
From: "Paul Sovcik, Pharm.D." <U18183%UICVM at UIC.EDU>
Subject:      First mash questions

Well, I finally was able to do my first partial mash.  I am making a Helles
Bock (kinda...) and used 5 lbs. of Pilsner malt (Dewolf-Cosyns) and 6 lbs. of
NW gold extract for a 5 1/2 gallon batch.  Used Wyeast 2206.

Unfortunately, while preparing the mash, I had some major distractions that
affected the process greatly.  First, I was taking care of my two month old
daughter, and when she needs to eat, she doesnt care about needing to adjust
temperature, etc...   The second distraction was the Cubs opener on TV.
Especially with Tuffy Rhodes...

Anyway, here were my variations from Miller's instructions.  How will each
variation affect the final product?
      1) My protien rest was done at 120 degrees, but the rest lasted TWO
         hours instead of one.
      2) My initial strike temp for the mash was 150 degrees, but when I
         poured it into the cooler, the temp went down to 145.  Due to
         the hungry child, this sat for 45 minutes.  I then figured it may
         be too low of a temp, so I reheated the whole mess to 155 degrees
         and mashed again for an hour (the temp dropped to 150 within the
         hour).  Did it "overmash"?  Is that possible?
      3) I sparged via kitchen strainer as per Millers instructions and
         got a terrible extraction rate (My original gravity was 1.062)
         probably because of the sparge technique and my impatience at the
         time this whole thing was taking.  I wondered as I did this...
         did letting the sparge runoff drip into the brewpot give me
         major HSA?

Thanks in advance for the replies.
BTW, it is currently fermenting at 48 degrees with no sign of activity yet
after 36 hours. I pitched a quart of yeast that didnt look like it was
working too hard after a 36 hour starter.  Should I be worrying?  Its my
first lager, too.
 -Paul Sovcik             U18183 at uicvm.uic.edu

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Date: Wed, 06 Apr 1994 13:27:59 -0600 (CST)
From: SWEENERB at memstvx1.memst.edu
Subject: More about all-grain

>Date:     Tue, 5 Apr 94 09:18 EST
>From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU>
>Subject:  Extract vs. All Grain
>
>Well, there's been a lot of debate on the extract vs. all grain issue.
>I only have 4 batches to my credit, but I've read a lot of material on
>brewing before I got started.  I've never made a kit beer and went
>straight for the extract/specialty grain method of brewing.
>
>Well, I've read just about all I can read on All Grain, Noonan,
>Papzian, Miller, BT, Zymurgy, and I've come to one conclusion.  All
>grain brewing takes a damn long time!  Much too long if you have
>children who belong to little league, or the scouts, or you have a
>significant other that uses the kitchen to, say, cook meals.
>
>All grain in my household would involve me setting up house in my
>basement and using an entire Saturday to make my beer "better."  I'm
>not willing to make that kind of commitment to my brew.  I don't know
>if I ever will be.  There is no other hobby that I have that requires
>me to use 8 hours or so at a shot without being able to stop.
>
>As a newbie, I must tell you that I am very turned off by all grain
>brewing (partial mash, maybe). because of the time and the expense
>involved in building a "mini-kitchen" in my basement.
>
>That's my 2 cents on the issue.
>
>Prosit!
>Andy Pastuszak
>

I am not trying to heat up the all-grain vs. extract discussion, but merely
to clarify what I feel are some misconceptions about all-grain brewing which
were detailed nicely by Andy (Thanks).  I put the following on r.c.b a few
days ago after someone else listed this 8 hour requirement for doing an
all-grain batch.

My record for an all-grain batch is less than 4 1/2 hours as detailed below. 
Keep in mind that for a significant part of this time (mashing) you don't have
to be present (sometimes I go for a run):

20 min - Crush grains in Corona mill (start heating water for mash too)
70 min - add water to grain & mash; begin heating sparge water
45 min - drain mash and sparge
60 min - boil
20 min - cool with wort chiller
10 min - siphon into carboy and pitch yeast
20 min - final clean up

That is a total of 4 hours 5 minutes, with the 2 hours and 15 minutes prior to
the boil the only time added to what I used to do for extract brewing.  
I know this is a shorter boil (considering this boil was actually only about
50 minutes with pre-boil time), sparge and mash time than many people prefer, 
but it will produce pretty good beer nonetheless.  Even extending to mash to
90 minutes, the sparge to 1 hour and the boil to 90 minutes will add only a 
little more than an hour to this total time.  
I like all-grain brewing as much for the, in my case, better results as for 
giving me a feeling of satisfaction that I did not get when doing extract 
batches.  Maybe its the idea that I am closely emulating the way most of the 
beers I prefer are made.  If final results are the main objective, I have 
tasted some very good extract beers.  

As for equipment, the only extra pieces I have are a corona mill, a 5 gal.
Gott cooler and a bunch of grain (I did start out with a 40qt enamel brewing
pot so I didn't have to replace that).   Cost: corona $45; gott - $20; other
misc things like my homemade immersion chiller -$50.  For me cost/batch for 
all-grain vs. extract is significant, typically about $10 per batch cheaper
for all-grain.  So rough and dirty that's about 12 batches to breakeven.

All my stuff including 3 kegs fits in a small coat closet.


For me the difference in my beer quality was worth the additional
time and since its a lot cheaper per batch going all-grain I can brew more
beer!  Sorry to take up the bandwidth, but I was intimidated about making the
switch to all-grain due to posts like Andy's for a long time so I felt the
need to respond.




Bob Sweeney
sweenerb at msuvx1.memst.edu
The University of Memphis
Down by the river, I shot my baby - N. Young
I would kill everyone in this room for a single drop of sweet beer. - H. Simpson

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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 14:33:08 EDT
From: WIESEN at VAX2.DNET.ICD.Teradyne.COM (Dan `Hefe' Wiesen)
Subject: [homebrewed] temp controllers


Having spent a good deal of time noodling about temperature controllers
a la the Hunter AirStat, here are some thoughts.

When I heard here that the AirStat was going out of production, I thought 
that it would be a good time to investigate the comercial feasability of a 
design I had floating around in a notebook.  I had drawn up a temp 
controller with the features that I wanted to see:  fractional degree 
accuracy, digital display of fridge temp and desired temp in C or F, 
hysteresis to reduce cycling of the compressor, the ability to set desired 
temp with a dial and plug & play ease of use.  Trouble was that the cost for 
the bill of material, at wholesale, was ~$80.  Add labor, overhead, things 
like shipping and the cost of getting of one of these babies to the customer 
looked to be over $100.  As a homebrewer, I would find it hard to swallow 
shelling out that kind of money for something that replaces the AirStat that 
some fortuitous HBD readers were able to buy for as little as $19.  So much 
for quitting my day job.  When I inherit a 1950 Westinghouse, I'll probably 
build one of these, just for the self satisfaction...

Bill Nichols responds to Geoff Scott asking for controller plans.  Bill talks
about the contact rating for switching the AC.  He's right about this being an
area of concern.  Whatever you use to interupt the AC will be hot switching an
inductive load [=big spark].  A reasonable rule of thumb is to use contacts
that are rated at 2 to 3 times the load current. I don't like disclaimers, they
make me feel unclean, but if you don't know what you are doing, please don't 
play with AC.

Keeping the preceding caveat in mind, here's an approach for an easystat (tm).
Use an adjustable, mechanical, bimetalic thermal switch, like ones found in 
older room heat thermostats to trigger a relay driver circuit.  Use the relay
driver to operate the coil of a relay capable of switching the compressor 
power.  To make this work, you will need to set the existing fridge/freezer 
control to its coldest setting.  You will also need to get a thermometer and 
spend time calibrating your thermostat.  One of the problems I forsee, is
finding a thermostat that operates around 30-50F.  I would try to modify the
switch to extend its range.  Good luck.

Dan

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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 13:46:43 -0500 (CDT)
From: Rich Larsen <richl at access1.speedway.net>
Subject: Irish Moss

 Steve Armbrust <Steve_Armbrust at ccm.hf.intel.com> asks :
 
>I've heard the discussions about the value of Irish Moss, but I've
>stopped using it because I think I can taste the difference between my
>own beers that were brewed using it and those that weren't.  Those that
>used Irish moss had a slight unpleasant taste that I couldn't explain
>away otherwise.  I'd rather have a little haze than an off flavor.
>
>So my question is, has anyone else observed this?  Or, am I not using
>Irish moss correctly?  (I add IM with 15 minutes left to the boil, about
>1 teaspoon, chill with an immersion chiller, and ladle into a carboy
>through a screen, using the whole hops that accumulate to filter out
>what shouldn't be there.)
 
I've never noticed a difference in flavor of the beer, but I have
noticed a dramatic change in the aroma coming off of the boil pot.  The
hop aroma, seems to change to a harsher smell.  I wonder if this is also
being transmitted into the final beer.
 
According to other sources, you should increase the amount to around 1/2
tablespoons, or according to Rodney Morris (CI$ cir 1991) you should use
900mg if you have a scale available.  I haven't noticed a dramatic
difference between 1 tsp up to 1 Tbl in the clearing effect.  I once used
1 Tbl IM and 2 Tbl Polyclar in secondary before kegging.  The result managed
to scrub out so much protein that I removed all head retention.
 
Other observations I've made are that it is definitly seaweed.  I found a
tiny shell in among the flakes.  (I guess this isn't the purified stuff huh
Al? :-) )  Also, I rehydrated the stuff for the first time 30 minutes before
addition and it didn't seem to make any difference.  It worked just as well
as if I had added it dry.  Without IM the hot break particles seem to be
smaller, but there is just as much.
 
A question... Why are the flakes superior to the powder?  The flakes tend to
clog my aerator nozzle on my siphon hose.  A real PITA.
 
=> Rich

Rich Larsen (708) 388-3514
The Blind Dog Brewery "HomeBrewPub", Midlothian, IL
(Not a commercial establishment)

    "I never drink... Wine."   Bela Lugosi as Dracula



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1392, 04/07/94