HOMEBREW Digest #1393 Fri 08 April 1994
Digest #1392
Digest #1394
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Modifying a Gott/Rubbermaid 5 gallon cooler ("Mark B. Alston")
Author's query (Bill)
Brewing Academies (Martin Lodahl)
Where do you buy agar? (David Knight)
Pure-Seal (TM) Bottle Caps (David Knight)
Re: JS, IM, EX, etc. (Jim Busch)
Raspberry Porter (David Brewer)
Extract vs all-grain and other stories. (Ash Baker)
Combustability Test (BIO)" <tillman at chuma.cas.usf.edu>
MEMO (Maribeth_Raines)
SUMMARY: Modifying Gott/Rubbermaid 5 gallon cooler (Jay Lonner)
Slander and Ridicule: All Grainers Rule! (COYOTE)
A plea for peace (David Draper)
Irish moss, going through the fridge, and coffee beer (Kinney Baughman)
Raspberry Stout (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
Sparging / Blowoff tubes (708) 938-3184" <HANSEN.MICHAEL at igate.abbott.com>
Whatney's Red Barrel Recipe (ewcorco)
Effect of decreasing mash temp (Robert Schultz)
Growing hoops (Aaron Morris)
successful cream ale (RONALD DWELLE)
Re: Kill Jack Schmidling? (Allan Rubinoff)
Fridge control (Bob_McIlvaine)
Brewing Education/RE:Danny Dumps (John Oberpriller x7937)
Hop Roots ("Daniel R. Sidebottom")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 13:37:51 MDT
From: "Mark B. Alston" <c-amb at math.utah.edu>
Subject: Re: Modifying a Gott/Rubbermaid 5 gallon cooler
This is almost exactly what I have done. I used a drilled stopper (3
1/2 I think) and put a piece of racking crane through the hole. The
inside is connected to my false bottom (Phils) and the outside is
connected to the hose. The only suggesting I would make is to put the
stopper on the inside so that any pressure against it holds it in and
doesn't push it out.
For my sparger I simple removed the push button part of the spout (you
can pull it out from the inside) and put a #1 (I think) solid rubber
stopper in the depression left on the front. By cutting a slit
through the part where the spout connects to the button part you can
slide some 3/8 inch tubing onto the spout. Put a hose clamp on the
hose and you are ready to go.
So far this has worked great for 10 brews.
Good luck,
Mark Alston
(Boy there are a lot of Marks around here!!!)
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 1994 14:49:01 -0500
From: Bill at cvumail.cvu.cssd.k12.vt.us
Subject: Author's query
For a revision of my book MAKING BEER
(Knopf 1983) I would appreciate hearing
any homebrewer's suggestions for changes
in text or emphasis. Thanks William Mares.
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 13:06:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: malodah at pbgueuze.scrm2700.PacBell.COM (Martin Lodahl)
Subject: Brewing Academies
In HOMEBREW Digest #1391, one yeebot at aol.com asked:
> By chance, would there be any graduates of either the UC Davis or Seibel
> schools of brewing on the HBD? Am I missing any other US schools? And would
> you be willing to share your experiences and advice with a guy who'd like to
> get a "proper" brewing education? I received literature from both schools but
> it failed to mention what any of their graduates are doing these days. (IMO,
> a neccessary data point.) My personal preferences (if it even matters) lie
> towards Belgian style beers. I promise to edit and re-post for all you other
> future Brewmeisters if I get a response.
I'm not a graduate of either, but have taken classes from both, and the
first question that occurs to me is, why? Do you wish to learn more
about brewing, by which I mean actually making excellent beer, or
is it more the intellectual challenge of brewing science, or do
you plan to seek employment in the small-scale brewing industry, or
is your life's ambition to work for A-B? I doubt that last, if you
like Belgian beers, but if it is, Davis is the place for you, though
I've been told that A-B hasn't hired a Davis grad in three years. If
on the other hand you want to be the brewer in a highly-regarded
brewpub or micro, and formulate interesting and flavorful recipes,
Siebel will serve you better, IMHO. Confidence in Davis graduates
as full-charge brewers appears to be eroding, though some have done
quite well. I agree altogether with your point that a school should
be judged by its graduates.
Both programs are run by people with long-term connections to the
brewing industry, though Siebel's program includes folks like Joe
Power and Dave Radzanowsky (spelling quite approximate) who've
worked in breweries as brewers most of their adult lives, while
Davis' Dr. Michael Lewis has more of an academic background.
In all cases their experience is most solidly rooted in the
"American light lager" tradition, but my strong impression is
that the Siebel folks have made the more succesful adaptation
to the changing face of American brewing.
HBD old-timers who know my writing style will recognize an
unusual restraint in what I've said here; I actually feel
very strongly about this, and could easily find myself making
statements I'd be hard-pressed to defend later. If possible,
take some sort of short seminar from each institution, and I
think you'll be able to evaluate their overall program.
= Martin Lodahl Systems Analyst, Capacity Planning, Pacific*Bell =
= malodah at pacbell.com Sacramento, CA USA 916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me! (Unk.) =
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 16:07:31 EDT
From: David Knight <dknight at ren.iterated.com>
Subject: Where do you buy agar?
I've recently gotten hold of a bunch of test tubes and I'd like to start
culturing yeast. I read the yeast FAQ and have all of the equipment and
ingredients that I should need *except* for agar. My question is:
Where do you buy agar?
I've called several huge local grocery stores and asked about it, but no one
has ever heard of it before. I've also checked in the gelatin section of
several stores but still no luck. The (admittedly small) oriental sections
of these supermarkets have no agar either.
If necessary I'll head for the ethnic part of town and try some oriental
supermarkets, but I doubt that I'd recognize agar even if it was standing
right in front of me, and if they do have it would it be labelled 'agar' in
english?
By the way, I'm located in the Atlanta 'burbs.
Thanks in advance,
-Dave Knight
dknight at ren.iterated.com
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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 16:17:58 EDT
From: David Knight <dknight at ren.iterated.com>
Subject: Pure-Seal (TM) Bottle Caps
I just purchased some Pure-Seal bottle caps and was wondering what is the
preferred way of sanitizing them. I thought I'd read somewhere that they
lose their effectiveness if they contact water, but I can't find the source
anymore.
Also, does anyone know what "makes them work"? Do they work at all normal
temperature ranges or should the bottles be stored at some "optimal"
temperature?
Thanks in advance.
-Dave Knight
dknight at ren.iterated.com
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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 17:33:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: JS, IM, EX, etc.
Jeff writes about IM:
>
> And to beat the Irish Moss horse to death: I've used it with and without
> protein rests and I've used it with a reasonably wide variety of malts.
> In the quantities that George Fix suggested and that I've passed along,
> there have been astonishing increases in clarity and NO (that is ZERO)
> problems with head retention. That's ZERO, Al.
I just saw what appeared to me be the exact same IM sold by supply stores
in my local CO-OP, in several gallon jars, for next to nothing prices. Is
this the same stuff? It sure looked the same. BTW, I gave up IM long
ago, but it does take a few weeks for my beers to clear, but I blame this
primarily on residual yeast. Maybe its time to try again.
> From: braddw at rounder.rounder.com
> Subject: Barleywine?!?
>
> I was looking for a recipe (grain or extract for 5 gals) that would
> approximate that of the Old Knucklehead.
Pale malt (M&F is a good choice, but domestic 2 row works) for a OG of
1.094+ , about 20 lbs for 5 gals.
Depending on how dark you like your BWs, 1 lb Caramel/crystal malt. More
if you like real sweet BWs. Some brewers add a touch of chocolate malt.
Mash at 144F for 20 min, raise to 152 to convert, mash off at 168-172.
Recirc, then draw off sweet wort, replacing with a small (1-2 gallons)
amount of sparge water. You basically only want the "first runnings" of
the mash. (If you have a second boiler, continue to lauter for a "small
beer").
Boil 90-120 minutes. Add 2 oz Centennial and 1 oz of Cascade at 60 min
to end of boil. Add 2 oz Cascade at 30 min, and finish with 2 oz of
Cascade (this assumes you like west coast ales/cascades, goldings is
also a great choice, but more costly).
Chill, *AERIATE* as much as possible. Pitch the dregs of a 1 GALLON
liquid starter of American Ale yeast (British yeast is another option).
Hope that it ferments down. Rack after 10-14 days, let sit in secondary
until the FG is down (this is a wild card).
If you bottle condition, add fresh yeast and sugar at bottling time.
> Also, has anyone out there ever brewed with apples? The thought of an
> apple-cinnamon lager entices me, especially since I live next to an
> Orchard!
Nope!
JS writes:
> Subject: DEATH THREATS
>
> "Town water departments are notorious for playing with the water.
> That translates into wildly variable extraction efficiencies."
>
> To repeat the question: how do changes in the water translate into wildly
> variable extraction efficiencies?
Sounds like back to ol research books, Jack. Check out the part on the
effects of Calcium ions on pH and extract, not to mention kettle break. While
your at it, look at dissolved solids and carbonates. Oh, and check out the
good range of values that was posted in the last HBD. And also note the
effects of mineral concentrations on hop flavor/perceptions, and overall
character of the finished beer. Lets see, what is the difference between
Munich water and Burton-on-Trent, I never can rememeber.....
>
>
> > Sure. There are methods for dealing with each one of these situations.
> The main point is that you can't take your water for granted. Water tests
> every day are an essential part of the commercial brewing process if you
> care at all about product consistency.
Actually, in practice this is a main reason that brewing salts are added to
the tun and/or kettle, it removes the testing headaches.
And about the suggestion to just buy someone else's beer: just what variety
do you expect to find in the more remote areas of NC? And at $65-80 a keg,
the cost difference per glass is great. ($130 for 4 BBl, thats 130 for 8
1/2BBl kegs, or a savings of .........).
> Subject: Brewing Schools
>
> By chance, would there be any graduates of either the UC Davis or Seibel
> schools of brewing on the HBD? Am I missing any other US schools? And would
> you be willing to share your experiences and advice with a guy who'd like to
> get a "proper" brewing education? I received literature from both schools but
> it failed to mention what any of their graduates are doing these days.
I have not attended either, but have heard much better reviews from Seibel
graduates. Also, FWIW, Seibel runs ads boasting the number of medals won
by thier grads in the GABF. I will tell you that it helps to have pro
brewing experience to get into Seibel.
Good brewing,
Jim Busch
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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 15:58:27 -0700
From: David Brewer <dbrewer at eastlake.nwest.mccaw.com>
Subject: Raspberry Porter
I made a batch of cranberry amber ale that turned out pretty darn
good, imho. What I did was crush the berries to break the skin (which
is not needed if the berries were previously frozen), and put them in
at the same time as the yeast, and left them in for about 2 days
during primary fermentation. I am as well, a fairly new brewer, but I
have been a Brewer all my life.
-Dave
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 16:20:29 -0400
From: l-snyder at mskcc.org (Lawrence Snyder)
Subject: Raspberry Porter
I am at the present time a relatively new (~ 6 months) extract brewer
and
was recently in Steamboat Springs CO and had the good fortune to try
an
amazingly good raspberry wheat beer in a brewpub called Heavenly Daze
(also
the name of a pretty good ski run on the mountain). They also had a
really
nice porter which had a beautiful aftertaste somewhere in between
coffee
and chocolate. But what I thought was particularly tasty and worthy
of
duplication was the brew obtained by mixing the two. A raspberry
porter!
I'd really appreciate it if someone who's had experience at brewing
with
fruit could send me some info on the subject as Papazian and Miller
have me
confused as to when to add the fruit / extract. Is it best to use
whole
fruit? What about risk of infection? Do you boil with the wort,
steep, or
just add it into the primary? Also I remember a couple of issues ago
on
the HBD someone talking about not adding the fruit directly in the
primary
fermentation as the initial CO2 surge will scrub out the aroma.
Thanks in
advance for any info.
Larry
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Date: Wed, 06 Apr 94 19:52:56 EDT
From: Ash Baker <3AVHB at QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
Subject: Extract vs all-grain and other stories.
My $0.02 on The Controversy: Some brewpubs brew with extract because they can't
use anything else. The Kingston Brewing Company has a matchbox-sized brewhouse
with a kettle, two fermenters, and four vessels, and just enough extra space
for two brewers to move around in. The reason it's not full-grain is because
there is literally no room to put a mash tun in there. Actually, if you ever
get the chance, visit it (34 Clarence St, Kingston, Ontario) (usual disclaimers
&c, &c). It's amazing the beers they get out of equipment that is, frankly,
less than perfect (kettle "fired" by a big, ugly, electric heating element
immersed in the boil, and so forth). The point is, for some breweries there
is no alternative to extract brewing (as far as I know, that is... Can anyone
suggest a way to mash in a 180 imperial gallon kettle, that will later be
used for the boil, with a hatch on the top, and a whacking big electric heating
element protruding into the kettle about eight inches from the bottom?)
- --------------------------
On the question of alcohol contents -- I was always let to understand that the
typical Budmilloor had 4% by weight, 5% by volume.
- --------------------------
The patron saint of beer and brewers is Saint Arnold -- unfortunately there are
two of them. One came from Oudenaarde, in Belgium,and is said to have
successfully entreated God to make more beer (thereby quelling a monastic
mutiny) after an abbey brewery, and all its store, were destroyed. The other
Saint Arnold was also Belgian, and was the Bishop of Soissons. According to
Michael Jackson "he is said to have ended a plague by immersing his crucifix
into a brew-kettle and persuading the people to drink only beer." Also,
Saint Veronus is considered the patron of lambic brewers.
- --------------------------
Surely, to a bit of lactic fermantation going, it is only necessary to
introduce some lactobacilli? An easy source of the little critters is a tub
of live-culture, unflavoured yogourt. Just drop a fingerful into the wort,
I would have thought...
That's all! If anyone has any suggestions about the mashing questions up there
it's probably best to send private e-mail. I'll summarise and post after about
a week.
Ash Baker <3avhb at qucdn.queensu.ca> Queen's University, Kingston, Ontario.
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 21:52:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tim Tillman (BIO)" <tillman at chuma.cas.usf.edu>
Subject: Combustability Test
Jack,
I'm willing to be a test subject. My fire insurance is paid up. :)
EXTRACT!
EXTRACT!
EXTRACT!
There, I've said it. Now on to better things.
Jack, despite the flames you receive, you are a valuble member of the
HBD. I for one appreciate your candor and ability to think and to discuss
important issues of this great hobby. I posted this to the general forum
because I wanted to be sure EVERYONE got it.
Tim Tillman
tillman at chuma.cas.usf.edu and still on GEnie m.tillman1.genie.geis.com
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Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 19:10:53 PDT
From: raines at radonc.ucla.edu (Maribeth_Raines)
Subject: MEMO
In regards to the current discussion on Irish Moss. I would like to
add that IM works better if you rehydrate for at least 15 minutes
prior to adding it to the boil. This seems to be a little known fact
in some homebrewing circles. Also Brewers Resource sells a treated IM
supposedly used by the big breweries. It's listed as Kettle Coagulant
in the catalog. Out of curiosity one day I asked Jeff about this
stuff. He said not many homebrewers use it but the big boys do.
Anyway I tried it on our last all grain brew (30 gal of a 1.082
maibock, triple decoction!) and it worked great! It looks more like
bentonite than IM to me; and you have to rehydrate it in warm water
before adding to the boil. It smelled so bad I was hesitant to use it
but with the clarity of this beer speaks for itself. I probably won't
use anything else.
On another note there was a recent post on how to determine the
alcohol content of non-alcoholic beers. I found a food analysis kit
that specifically determines ethanol. It's actually made for
determining alcohol levels in beer, regular and non-acoholic!
Unfortunately you need a UV spectrophotometer for detection. Since I
am interested in brewing some non-alcoholic beers and have a UV spec
in my lab, I purchased a kit. E-mail me privately if you want more
info on this (and please leave me your e-mail address so I can e-mail
you back!).
Oh I almost forgot, I'm off to San Francisco this weekend and next
week for the Cancer Research meetings, so I may not get back to you
right away.
Happy Brewing!
Maribeth Raines
raines at radonc.ucla.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: 06 Apr 1994 21:42:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Jay Lonner <8635660 at NESSIE.CC.WWU.EDU>
Subject: SUMMARY: Modifying Gott/Rubbermaid 5 gallon cooler
Hi,
In this morning's HBD I asked a question about replacing the stock spout in a 5
gallon cooler with a piece of 3/8" copper tubing. I mentioned that I was
thinking of ramming the tubing into a stopper, and the stopper into the hole
left by removing the spout.
I have gotten an overwhelming (20+) number of replies and suggestions on this
topic. What a great response! Makes me feel like we brewers are one great big
happy non-dysfunctional family. Anyway, here are some of the solutions
mentioned:
- -- go with the stopper idea, but put the stopper in from the inside so that
water/mash pressure keeps it in (most popular suggestion)
- -- use the above with a good silicon food-grade sealant
- -- don't remove the existing spout and drill a new hole for the tubing
- -- remove the push-button plunger part of the spigot assembly, plug up the
hole where the button went, and attach tubing to the spout part
- -- pick up miscellaneous gaskets, washers, tubing, compression fittings, and
a faucet from a hardware store (probably the coolest but most involved
solution)
- -- remove the push-button plunger part of the spigot assembly and just ram
the tubing through there
I ended up going for a variation on the last suggestion. The tubing wouldn't
slide in easily -- the cavity left by removing the plunger wasn't quite big
enough -- so I drilled it out with a 3/8" bit, which enlarged it just enough.
Now I can slide my tubing in relatively easily (there's still considerable
friction) and if it leaks I can always reinstall with a little bit of silicone
sealer.
I like this option because it is cheap, simple (I'm big into simple, I drive a
'68 Bug), and utilizes the gaskets and fittings that came with the cooler,
which should result in less leak potential.
For those who are curious, I am using one of these coolers to house a Phil's
Phalse Bottom and another cooler to hold sparge water.
Sorry for the long message but I got a lot of good ideas and thought it was
only fair to the group and to those that responded to share them all (or at
least most of them -- I may have forgotten some).
Jay.
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Date: Wed, 06 Apr 1994 23:17:40 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Slander and Ridicule: All Grainers Rule!
I couldn't help myself. Forgive my aggressions to follow:
PETER J VOELKER <pv120859 at hvcc.edu>
is "tired of Zima bashing." He states he called them, they said it's
"essentially beer
that they filter EVERYTHING out of before carbonating." he continues...he
"likes it!
It's a nice refreshing summer party drink. [He's] not ALWAYS in the mood
for beer. So let's just let the stuff be. WE know it's not a malt bev."
* If you're not in the mood for beer, make- and drink MEAD!
Besides- they DO condone it as a malt beverage, as are wine coolers.
Not beer, but malt based nevertheless.
He continues to describe how he...."brewed a batch of EXTRACT beer just as
[he] usually does, except this time my mini kegs...[bulged] "
*{can't get a REAL keg- can ya?!} ... Get a REAL regulator, then we'll talk!
"Could my yeast (dried) ....blah blah... (I've done about 20 batches so far)."
SO: Pete, slap, ya have a desire to drink ZIMA eh? You actually LIKE it!
You brew...EXTRACT...and use DRY YEAST...and MINI KEGS...Hmmmm
Hope you're not looking for respect! Slam- slander-spit.
20 batches my left testicle! (I'd like to see a WOMAN say THAT!)
So...have you considered the possibility of a CONTAMINANT- a wild
yeast perhaps. Infecting your brew and chewing on additional complexes-
sugars left untouched be REAL BEER YEAST! Euuey. (best jewish accent)
Of COURSE you KNOW that all-grain beers are far superiour to extract
beers- especially when using DRY YEAST. Wait- don't tell me, its Red Star
right?! Do you think ZIMA is actually an all-grain beer! I'll bet you do! :)
Honestly- I was reading this- and couldn't resist.
Tongue- is SERIOUSLY in cheek here! ( I guess, but he DOES LIKE Zima????)
To add to the debate...I'm a several YEAR all-grainer, but have friends who
are still extracters. Some of whom brew beers that are even ALMOST as
good as my best attempts. Then again, their average beer is better than
my worst contaminated ferment! Technique is as important as ingredients.
One of my personal feelings- on behalf of all-grainers around the globe is...
that making an excellent all-grain beer is a statement. Of creativity, ability
and know-how that cannot be extended in the same manner to an extract
beer. Extracters depend HEAVILY on the quality of the base extract used.
Technique/cleanliness weigh heavily in the argument, but to be truly
responsible for the content, and quality of a homebrewed beer requires
knowing what ingredients truly went into that ferment! IMHO. I'm biased!
In the same manner- the sourdough -french bread I made last night I can
claim to be my own creation, because I started the starter, and doughed it
up with my own two hands. It wasn't a ready made- "pop it in the oven"
bread mix- preproportioned with idiot proof directions to follow!
Ok- so I didn't grind the flour myself, I like to keep my grinder set for
cracking! Not flouring...but there is a genuine sense of personal creativity
that is found by "going all grain". Knowing EXACTLY what went in a brew.
I would sincerely encourage any extract brewer to at least experiment
with specialy grains and enjoy the true meaning of MALT beverage!
You will notice a difference in both quality and a growing understanding.
Andy Pastuzak sez
"All grain in my household would involve me setting up house in my
basement and using an entire Saturday to make my beer "better." I'm
not willing to make that kind of commitment to my brew. I don't know
if I ever will be. There is no other hobby that I have that requires
me to use 8 hours or so at a shot without being able to stop."
Mashing requires a whole hour or more. Time to run the kids out to the
park, or as I propose- shuffle the laundry around on a sat afternoon.
There are several other "breaks" I allow for- to do shopping, etc etc etc.
In addition- I make 10-15 gal in 6 hours- all grain, for about $20-$30.
Also- I have been proposing to my wife-to-be that I cook dinner in a
dutch oven on my 2 burner "Coyote Cooker"- no tm! (camp stove) while brewing.
Seems like a pretty productive saturday afternoon to me! I can probably
squeeze in some vacuuming and weeding while I'm at it! It may be six hours,
but it is NOT continual "standing over the stove" time. You can do other stuff!
Before I get slammed for bashing here- please understand I've had a few
Maibocks before I entered the info-highway (so tap me! You Bloody Bastards!!!)
and am still celebrating April Fools Day- the day I got engaged... No really!
So it isn't actually May yet. The stronger half is dry-hopped and lagering!
I too am tired of hearing Zima- and Ice beer bashing. But I do have a
genuine feeling about the all-grain vs. extract debate and saw an
opportunity for slander and ridicule. Ok- so "Jack syndrome" may hit us all!
While I'm on the subject of Mr. Schmidling's H2O... I'd just like to input my
2c, to say that a city as large and great at Chicago is a lot more likely to
have consistent water quality- similar to the fact that Miller and Bud can make
the SAME tasteless swill from grain, rice, corn, and water collected all over
the great united states without any noticable difference in quality.
A finger that is most commonly pointed at the small brewer- suffering
from quality control problems. Where-as in a small town, such as my own
and others frequented by several net-brewers we know, we may suffer
seasonal as well as daily- weekly alterations in the quality of water we
receive. I guess I all just depends on where you are and how you do it!
The point is- essentially- pH WILL affect extraction. Control is possible
with proper monitoring. The overall quality of a brew will change with water
content- hence why Burton on Trent brews the infamous beers they do!
Many Excellent beers attribute a great deal the the quality of water used!
Just a slanderous/ bousterous/ ramble / babble from the Coyote.
I've been quiet for a number of days. Felt I was entitled to waste some bw!
|\
|\| \/| \-\-\- John (The Coyote) Wyllie SLK6P at cc.usu.edu -/-/-/
\ | Originally in Logan, soon to be Smithfield (utah. shhhhhh)
----
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Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 15:38:43 +1000 (EST)
From: David Draper <ddraper at laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au>
Subject: A plea for peace
Please folks, let's quit the extract-vs-allgrain exchange. It has
degraded into a "no it isn't!" "yes it is!" - like thing that, quite
frankly, is no fun to watch. No extract brewer is likely to be able to
convince an accomplished allgrainer, ie one who has made the jump to
allgrain speed successfully, that they're doing too much work for not
enough reward. No allgrainer is going to be able to convince an
accomplished extract brewer that what they make isn't worth the bother.
Those who do allgrain enjoy the control and access to subtle influence
that is largely unavailable to the extract-or, at the cost of extra effort
and having to know more about what one is doing. The extractors enjoy
quite good beer for less effort, and are able to learn about brewing
without as much risk (ie if the batch goes bad, you're out only a couple
hours work), at the cost of probably not being able to brew really great
beer as often as an allgrainer could. We all have "other lives" to lead
outside brewing, and we all must decide what works best for us. Each
technique has much to offer its users.
I've been brewing for about two years, extract so far. I fully intend to
move over to allgrain eventually. However, I do not yet feel that I know
enough about how the many interacting factors work to want to make the
investment of time, money, and the goodwill of my wife to try it. I have
learned a great deal about brewing from this forum and from
rec.crafts.brewing, and as much of this comes from comments of allgrainers
as from fellow extractors. Surely there are allgrainers who have learned
from extractors as well. We all have things to learn and teach, and it
helps no one for some to say one technique is too much work while another
camp says the product of the other technique is doomed to inferiority.
Finally, I have been around here on the net for only a couple of years,
and I know there are those who've been around a lot longer, but it *does*
seem that Jack S. gets jumped on rather more enthusiastically for
strongly-held opinions than do others of equally strong conviction--either
agreeing with js or not. I can conceive of this recent ext-vs-a.g.
exchange never having gotten very vituperative, nor lasting as many
articles, had someone else made comments of a thrust similar to Jack's
response to Kinney's writings. I find this puzzling.
Thanks for indulging me in my call for a return to interbrewer amity.
Cheers, Dave in Sydney
- --
******************************************************************************
David S. Draper School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University
ddraper at laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au NSW 2109 Sydney, Australia
Fax: +61-2-805-8428 Voice: +61-2-805-8347
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 1994 08:33:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kinney Baughman <BAUGHMANKR at conrad.appstate.edu>
Subject: Irish moss, going through the fridge, and coffee beer
Jeff and JC talked about Irish Moss and when to add it:
One of George's tips to me when I was writing my last article for Zymurgy was
to rehydrate the Irish moss *the day before the brew*. We have a couple of
beers underway at the brewery now in which we remembered to do that. :-)
I'm trying to determine how big a difference it makes. I know we had a golden
ale last month that was hands down clearer than anything we have brewed so
far. As the beergods would have it, though, we failed to note if it was one
of the beers in which we had rehydrated the IM that far in advance.
Bill asks about drilling through the side of a refrigerator and JC says:
>they make taps with various length shafts
I tried using shafts the first time I modified a refrigerator and I've blown
out several kegs of CO2 when the fittings started leaking. The second time
around I drilled holes through the sides of the refrigerator and fitted the
holes with rubber grommets. Put a little vaseline on the CO2 lines and slide
them through. Airtight, the fittings don't sweat or leak, and they're a
helluvalot cheaper.
Oh, yes. If you go through the door of the refrigerator, you'll turn the taps
on sometime when you close the door. So you'll want to consider going through
the side. Having said that, taps on the door look appropriate and make an
immediate impression on anyone entering your kitchen for the first time. :-)
Finally, Dave asks about adding coffee beans to the mash:
You won't get any coffee flavor putting the beans in the mash. Wait until you
bottle and pour a freshly brewed, slightly strong, pot of coffee in with the
beer when it's in the bottling bucket. You'll have to play with the
measurements. I've used 1-2 oz. of coffee to a pint of beer to good effect.
Cheers ya'll,
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kinney Baughman | Beer is my business and
baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu | I'm late for work.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 08:36:29 -0500
From: trl at photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
Subject: Raspberry Stout
On the topic of fruit-flavored beers -- two other brewers in
my Club, Ginger Wotring and Tom Finan, and I brewed a Raspberry
Imperial Stout a couple months back. Tom has dubbed it "Triple
Threat", and printed cool Three Stooges lables for the bottles.
I'm not sure which of us is Moe. Anyhow, I bought raspberry
flavoring from our local homebrew supply shop, and its this
stuff I want to tell you-all about.
The flavoring is absolutely clear, and comes in a 4 ounce
bottle. I used a whole bottle in my share (3-1/2 gallons) of
the brew. The supplier told me the flavoring is extracted from
genuine raspberries by a process called "carbon dioxide
distillation". I'm not sure just what this means, but no
organic solvents are used to make the extract, so its all
"natural" and quite pure. But here's the catch:
This stuff is absolutely without flavor!!!!
There is no gustatory sensation at all, its all olfactory. The
aroma is dead-on raspberry, and strong too. When you pour a
beer into your glass, you smell the raspberries just fine. But
there's no raspberry flavor to back it up. I suspect the way
you're supposed to use this kind of extract is to make a syrup
of sugar and citric acid, and dump-in the raspberry smell.
That would probably be pretty convincing. But I can't
reccommend you use it in your beer.
Another brewer in our Club is making a raspberry flavored beer
using a red syrupy flavoring obtained from St. Patrick's down
in Austin. If I get a chance to taste this, I'll report on it.
But I suspect I'll want to use frozen raspberries next time.
And a 1-1/2" blowoff tube...
t
Return to table of contents
Date: 07 Apr 1994 08:14:00 -0600 (CST)
From: "Michael D. Hansen (708) 938-3184" <HANSEN.MICHAEL at igate.abbott.com>
Subject: Sparging / Blowoff tubes
Hey All,
Brian J. Cecil, you've done it now! You mentioned that *word*! :-)
Stephen Hudson writes about sparging into the fermenter with cold water in
it after a boiling a partial mash recipe. IMO, sparging is an unfortunate
choice of words by Papazian. What he means is to simply pour the wort
through a strainer to remove hops junk and hotbreak so they wont go into
the fermenter. No hot water is involved. There is a picture of him pouring
wort through a strainer into his carboy in his book somewhere in the
beginners section so you can see exactly what the technique is. (Sorry I
can't tell you exactly the page # since I am at work and don't keep my beer
books here!). Of course, straining the wort before pouring into a fermenter
is appropriate for partial mash, all-grain, and (gulp) extract.
As the person who brewed the raspberry stout mentions, his 3/8" blowoff
tube became clogged with raspberry goo. 3/8" is way too small for a blowoff
tube. You should use a 1 1/4" blowoff tube that fits snugly inside the neck
of your carboy. After the brew is done spewing you can put the rubber
carboy cap on with an airlock.
Brew on my friends,
Mike Hansen (HANSENMD at RANDB.ABBOTT.COM)
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Date: Thu, 7 Apr 94 10:00:06 -0400
From: ewcorco at erenj.com
Subject: Whatney's Red Barrel Recipe
Greetings! I'm new to the list so please excuse me if this
question has been answered before - does anyone have a recipe which comes
close to Whatney's Red Barrel Ale? I'd like to brew it from mash if
possible. Thanks in advance for any advice.
Ned Corcoran
ewcorco at erenj.com
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Date: Thu, 07 Apr 1994 08:46:28 -0600 (CST)
From: Robert Schultz <Robert.Schultz at usask.ca>
Subject: Effect of decreasing mash temp
Most of what I have read recently has cautioned against a decreasing
mash temp. but has not clarified what the effect(s) will be.
I typically kettle mash, bringing the temp up to a specified point,
turn off my heat source, insulate and cover the kettle and then _relax_.
Typical temperature drops are about 1C per hour. What effect will this have?
The last batch I did was in my garage and the temp drop was about
9C per hour and I was forced to reheat to hold a mash temp. What will this do?
Also, there was a thread some time ago about a temperature compensated
ph meter with a temperature readout for under $60. I think I want one of these
now, but can find the thread.... Anyone still have it?
Rob
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Robert.Schultz at usask.ca, Senior Research Analyst, University of Saskatchewan ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ "I'm going off half-cocked? I'm going off half-cocked? ... ~
~ Well, Mother was right - You can't argue with a shotgun." - Gary Larson ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 94 10:50:31 EDT
From: Aaron Morris <SYSAM at ALBANY.ALBANY.EDU>
Subject: Growing hoops
It's hard to give advice on growing hoops without knowing what kind of
hoops you want to grow. For instance, hula hoops prefer tropical
climates such as Southern California and Hawaii. They have been known
to flourish in other climes and spread like wild fire through the United
States in the late fifties and early sixties, but due to a lack of
continued interest, hula hoops have pretty much died out and are fairly
hard to find these days. Possible sources for roots may be garage sales
or the Whammo Corporation.
More commonly found varieties include sewing and embroidery hoops which
can be found almost anywhere that grass grows. Check crafts or sewing
shops (Singer is a sure bet). Another common variety is the barrel hoop
(check your local blacksmith). Harder varieties to find include skirt
hoops (which can be found at antique shops if you're lucky) and magical
hoops, which can be found at speciality supply shops, but I can never
figure out how they work. Finally, you can find gardening hoops in
some of the finer garden supply magazines. Gardening hoops can be
especially useful in supporting your hops!
DISCLAIMER: This is a joke, no flames please. Spare me the hoopla!
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 94 10:59:05 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: successful cream ale
A couple months ago, I asked for suggestions on making an
American "Cream Ale." From all the responses, I developed the
following receipe:
Spring Buds Cream Ale (5 gallons)
Grains:
7 pounds Schreir Brewer's Malt 2 row
1.5 pounds caramel pils
1 pound pale ale
Step mash (American 2-row method, 135x then 165x then mashout)
American Ale Yeast (Yeast Lab A02)
1/2 ounce Perle each, at 60 min, 30 min, and finish
1 ounce Willamette, dry hopped
1 teaspoon salt, 1 teaspoon ascorbic
Primed with 1.5 quarts gyle from the boil.
The beer is 2-weeks in the bottle now, and quite nice, though
quite a bit hoppier than commercial cream ale (that's okay with
me). To try to replicate something like "Little Kings," I'd
probably reduce the hops a lot.
Cheers
Ron Dwelle (dweller at gvsu.edu)
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 08:07:21 -0700
From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: brewing with coffe
Dave in Bloomington asks about brewing with coffee.
I cannot speak from experience on the subject,
but I wonder about one point.
I wonder if the oils that would be leeched from the coffee grounds
would become a problem for cleaning?
As an alternative, Larry Riffenberick, proprieter of Larry's
Brewing in Kent Washington does not drink coffee (that I know of),
but he does drink something that tastes like coffee. (No funny
business with chives here!) I believe his recipe calls for 2
parts light crystal malt, and 1 part roasted barley. He throws
this into his drip coffee maker just like coffee, although
the quantities may not be equal to coffee. Adjust to taste.
With all of the bickering about this and that, there certainly
seems to be enough flame around to heat up this kind of brew.
It also has no caffeine, which also may make for less
aggrivation, agitation, and strife here on the HBD.
Rich Webb
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 94 12:17:08 EDT
From: Allan Rubinoff <rubinoff at BBN.COM>
Subject: Re: Kill Jack Schmidling?
Glenn (GANDE at SLIMS.ATTMAIL.COM) writes:
>Why does everyone jump all over Jack Schmidling? I've been reading and
>posting to the HBD for 2 years now and whenever he say's ANYTHING, a
>zillion posts are made to dispute his comments. I don't always agree
>with his statements, but that's because I have a different belief on
>how something is done. The posts I've seen recently (and there's been a
>few) are getting so petty as to argue syntax, who said what, etc.
When I first started reading HBD, I wondered about this as well. Now
that I've been reading for a few months, I think I do understand.
The problem with Jack's posts is that they leave no room for
disagreement. Jack doesn't seem to understand that there is more than
one "right" way to do things. The tone of his posts says "I know the
truth. If you disagree with me, it's only evidence of how benighted you
are." Kind of like accusing someone of having a drinking problem, and
if they disagree, claiming their disagreement is a sign of denial and
further proof of the problem.
Notice that Jack's posts often contain insulting comments that are
almost guaranteed to elicit heated responses. A while back he referred
to extract brewers as "lazy." Now he implies that Kinney's beers are
"mediocre," even though he's never tried them.
I also notice that when people respond angrily to Jack's posts, he
claims that they misunderstood him. The exchange about Tumbleweed is a
good example of this. First Jack suggested that extract beers were
inherently mediocre. Then he backed off, saying that his point was
that whatever the results, the reason for using extract is that it's
easier than all-grain. This is disingenuous, to say the least. If you
go back to his original post, it's clear that he was claiming that it's
pointless for a brewpub to brew from extract, because the beer won't be
good enough to justify the effort.
I'm tired of the endless disputes, too, but I think most of the
responsibility lies with Jack. I'm especially tired of the sneers at
extract brewers, and the smug assertions that the easymasher is the
solution to all problems. This is brewing, for God's sake, not moral
philosophy. Let's try to keep some things in perspective.
-Allan Rubinoff <rubinoff at bbn.com>
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 94 12:28:34 EST
From: Bob_McIlvaine at keyfile.com
Subject: Fridge control
A very economical fridge temperature controller
can be made from and LM324, an opto-coupled
triac, and a power triac. It includes, a time delay
circuit using a 555 to prevent quick cycling on
the compressor.
You can replace the opto/triac combo with a solid
state relay if you like.
This guy doesn't have fancy displays so you
need to calibrate it with your own thermometer.
It also doen't have the range limitations that the
Hunter stats have.
For details, send me private email at:
mac at mv.mv.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 94 18:33:47 MET DST
From: John Oberpriller x7937 <s12int::l375bbk at alcatel.be>
Subject: Brewing Education/RE:Danny Dumps
A few days back I posted a question about becoming a brewmaster. No one
responded.( But then my email connection is unreliable at best. ) Since then
I've seen mentions in HBD for a program at UC Davis and an Institute in
Chicago. If anyone has any info it would be greatly appreciated. Please post
answer to HBD as my mail connection seems to be one way now.
Danny, funny story. However, did you get the date wrong or is this some
feeble cut at Tumbleweed??
Thanks,
John Oberpriller
Stuttgart, Germany
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Date: Thu, 07 Apr 1994 12:30:26 -0500 (EST)
From: "Daniel R. Sidebottom" <SIDEBODR at SCOBVA.COBLESKILL.EDU>
Subject: Hop Roots
Hello again,
In a previous message I had asked where I could find
Hoop roots. What I meant to say was "HOP ROOTS".
I would like to start to grow my own Hops.
Thank you
Dan
Daniel R. Sidebottom
Coordinator of Computer Services
Phone: (518)234-5258
Decnet: scobva::sidebodr
Bitnet: sidebodr at snycobva
Internet: sidebodr at scobva.cobleskill.edu
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1393, 04/08/94