HOMEBREW Digest #1395 Mon 11 April 1994
Digest #1394
Digest #1396
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
kill the all-grainers/beginners/cappers (RONALD DWELLE)
Re: 15 gal sanke kegs as fermenters (Larry Barello)
Corny Kegs/Fermenting/IM (braddw)
Rasberries in beer (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
Spirit of Belgium Homebrew Contest ("Phillip Seitz")
Hello to HBD readers... (Timothy F. Corbett)
Jack Schmidling ("Dave Suurballe")
MEXICAN BEERS (LLDSC)
Combustibility Test (BIO)" <tillman at chuma.cas.usf.edu>
That coffee flavor (Jay Lonner)
DEATH THREATS (Jack Schmidling)
Flames:newest beer ingredient?/Malt sources (Mark Evans)
Extract Full Sail Ale Recipe? Grain vs Extract (Greg Heiler)
Wyeast American Ale / Using Spring Water ("Steve Veillette, WCSU Information Systems")
Re: Re: Temperature Controller, homemade ("Roger Deschner ")
SLURRY (djfitzg)
Easy Masher ? (Timothy Sixberry)
Question on Grain Mills... (mgerard)
Question on 'Quality' Malt Extracts (mgerard)
Dry Hopping/Bock!/BW (npyle)
Brew Speak (npyle)
BW for daughters 21st (Dennis Davison)
Wyeast #1056 American Yeast (Greg Bishop)
Easymasher review and more (Ulick Stafford)
Wyeast American Ale ("Glenace L. Melton")
De Clerck's Textbook (Don Put)
DEATH THREATS (Jack Schmidling)
Armchair Psychologists/Hop Metrics/Crushed Grains (Jack Skeels)
Beer Can Collection (Ronald Tozzie)
Re: brewing schools (J Dee Breshears)
My beer needs more, uh, oomph! (dyeater)
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
then you MUST unsubscribe the same way!
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from
sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via
mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 94 13:47:27 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: kill the all-grainers/beginners/cappers
I'm not eager to keep the all-grain/extract thread going. But I
would like to add that I do all-grain for one reason--it's lots
cheaper.
Nother subject:
William Mares asks: "For a revision of my book MAKING BEER
(Knopf 1983) I would appreciate hearing any homebrewer's
suggestions for changes."
One thing none of the books warns about is the effect of
bleach on your clothing. When I started, I ruined 14 shirts and
11 pairs of slacks before I finally pasted a banner over my
bottler: "It's the bleach, dummy! Change your clothes before you
start." Put it in the book, Bill.
Nother subject:
My old capper is getting tired, worn-out I think. It's the old
grab-em-by-the-neck-and-squeeze variety (has "...Italy"embossed
but no other identifier). So I thought, well, this time I'll buy
a bench-top capper and really treat myself right. But then my
consumer-report alterego says, "Waydaminute. How do you know a
bench-top capper is better? Just because it costs ten times as
much?" And my answer is, "I dunno."
Is a bench-topper really better, oh experienced ones? If yes,
any recommendations on brand/source? TIA
Ron Dwelle (dweller at gvsu.edu)
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 10:58 PDT
From: larryba at polstra.com (Larry Barello)
Subject: Re: 15 gal sanke kegs as fermenters
Bob: I use a 1/2 bbl sanke for my 10 gallon ferments. It works great. I
use a red rubber carboy cap and it fits the sanke fitting perfectly. I
use a regular raking cane to rack. It works great since the vast bulk of
yeast and trub sit in the dome in the bottom of the keg. Losses are
around 1-2 qts of solids.
I clean with sodium carbonate (washing soda at your grocery store) about
1/4-1/2 cup , fill keg with water and let sit at least overnight. No
scrubbing, just rinse. To sanitize I put in about 2 gallons of water
and heat it on my burner until the rubber carboy cap starts whistling.
the keg is cool enough (drain the water) by the time I am ready to rack
from the kettle.
Make sure you have a dolly to cart the keg around once filled with wort!
Cheers!
>I would be interested in hearing peoples experiences with using 15 gal sanke
>kegs as primary fermenters. After years of using carboys I'm concidering
>switching to these 1/2 barrel kegs. Most of my reasons stem from the amount
>of blowoff I have from the carboys. A 20% loss of beer is starting to really
>bug me. Seems one could mount a valve on the underside of the keg and pretty
>much use the keg without any other modification except the removal of the
>valve assembly. I guess a stopper could be used to fashion an air lock or
>blow off tube. I would plan on puting the same 10 gals in this new fermenter
>and that would get me a 33% head space. As for the cleaning I would do all
>the cleaning chemically. I have been using TSP and hot water and have had
>great results with it.
>
- --
Larry Barello larryba at polstra.com
10034 NE 22nd ST (206) 454-6958
Bellevue, WA. 98004
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri Apr 8 14:09:56 1994
From: braddw at rounder.rounder.com
Subject: Corny Kegs/Fermenting/IM
I have several Corny kegs that I would like to put to use for fermenting.
my goal would be to use one keg as a hop-back, primary, and secondary
just "blowing off" the cold break, trub, and yeast sediment between
stages. Is this possible? Is it suggested? Or should I not worry and
stick to my glass carboys? My goal would be simply to save myself some
work. I know, I'm lazy but I love it
As for the IM debate I've been using it in my extract and grain brews
with ecxcellent results. However, my bottle conditioned beers
consistently clear much nicer than those that I keg. The only difference
between the two is the amount of priming sugar (M+F DME) that I use, 1
1/4 cup for bottling and 1 cup for kegging. Anyone have any ideas as to
why this is so? What other factors could affect this?
Finally, Jim Busch suggest that for a barley wine that I had fresh yeast
with priming sugar at bottling time. If I were to use a healthy
Champagne yeast to begin with would this still be neccessary. And if so,
what quatity should I be adding. Afraid of exploding bottles I guess.
Prvate e-mail is welcome.
braddw at rounder.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 14:34:13 EDT
From: Lee=A.=Menegoni at nectech.com
Subject: Rasberries in beer
I have had a fair degree of success using frozen rasberries in beers they
add to both the taste and aroma. I add them to the secondary. To use them
I defrost them, in the bag in my micro wave, I then squish them up , still
in the unopened bag, and I cut off a corner of the bag and squeeze them in
the secondary.
I have get them in 12 oz bags and found 1 bag per gallon to do a nice job.
I have used them in a stout, Ale and spiced ale.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 94 09:02:45 -0400
From: "Phillip Seitz" <p00644 at psilink.com>
Subject: Spirit of Belgium Homebrew Contest
This is an advance notice to let you know that Brewers United for Real
Potables (BURP) is planning a Spririt of Belgium homebrew contest for
Saturday, November 12. This will be the first national contest ever
devoted exclusively to Belgian-style homebrew.
In holding this contest BURP hopes to encourage a greater understanding
and appreciation of Belgian beer styles, and to encourage
experimentation and the pursuit of excellence in Belgian-style homebrewing.
Further details will be forthcoming in the near future, including
contest details, entry materials, and information for brewers on
styles, recipe formulation, and availability of ingredients and yeasts.
Since certain Belgian styles take substantial time to mature (lambics
especially) this announcement is being made now to encourage you to
plan ahead!
BURP represents over 300 brewers in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Apr 1994 15:25:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: tcorbett at isac.isac.wright.edu (Timothy F. Corbett)
Subject: Hello to HBD readers...
Hello, my name is Tim Corbett and I am new to the HBD,
so excuse me, if this question has been asked.
I am not only a new reader, but also a new brewer.
I was wondering what is all this about extract vs all grain?
It seem to me that we are all home brewers and this is our hobby,
If anyone reads other sources of discussion groops, this slashing
back and forth is just like the argument on what computer is better.
"nuf said", we all know that computer argument never goes any where.
Please do send any flames my way, I just do not see the point in
that kind of exchange.
Ok, now my question, I have been looking for ideas no how to
reproduce an ale like New Castle Brown Ale. If you have a suggestion
please forward it to me.
I have been looking for about 6 monthe with little luck.
Thanks and Cheers to all homebrewers ( allgrainers and extracters alike )
Tim Corbett
tcorbett at isac.isac.wright.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: 8 Apr 1994 15:30:49 -0700
From: "Dave Suurballe" <suurb at farallon.com>
Subject: Jack Schmidling
Jack Schmidling is obviously the most popular person on this digest. You
people spend more time talking about him, and I spend more time reading about
him, than anybody else.
This makes Jack Schmidling the star of the Homebrew Digest.
Ironically, those who complain about this are perpetuating it.
Return to table of contents
Date: Friday, 8 April 94 18:00:24 CST
From: LLDSC at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu
Subject: MEXICAN BEERS
Okay,
I put my request up a couple of days ago for a Carta Blanca/Dos Equis/
Tecate clone and have recieved no replies.
IS THERE NO ONE TO HELP ME WITH THIS!!!
I'm looking for an extract recipie (everyone knows that extract is better--
just kidding) that I could use with an ale instead of a lager yeast. Come
on, I know someone out there is holding out on me. Please, help a
desperate man.
Update: About two or three weeks ago, I posted a message about brewing
with "special hops". The beer has been sitting around in bottles for
two weeks now. We'll have to quaff an extra special one for Mr. Cobain.
Keep on truckin'
LLDSC at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 21:42:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tim Tillman (BIO)" <tillman at chuma.cas.usf.edu>
Subject: Combustibility Test
Let's start off by saying that I did not post the message of Friday's
digest with the above subject. Next time, I'll lock the terminal before
I take a coffee break.
Next, I feel that it is important, Jack, for every member of this hobby
to respect eachothers methods and motives. IfKinney is capable of
brewing high quality beer at a fare price with his cobbled together
brewery, more power to him. I hope someday to sample the Timberwolf's
wares. I suggest you do the same.
zVOn a lighter note, I am collecting Pilsner recipes. All grain, partial
mash, or extract versions are welcome. I hope to be introducing a group
of folks to brewing in the near future. And, I think that a pilsner
would be a good place to start.
Tim Tillman
tillman at chuma.cas.usf.edu and still on GEnie m.tillman1.genie.geis.com
Return to table of contents
Date: 09 Apr 1994 01:27:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Jay Lonner <8635660 at NESSIE.CC.WWU.EDU>
Subject: That coffee flavor
I've never made a coffee stout, and I don't think I ever will -- it just
doesn't sound agreeable to me. But those interested in brewing this "style"
might want to invest in a Toddy coffee maker for purposes of obtaining a nice
mellow coffee character.
A Toddy maker is a cold-water coffee extraction setup. You add a pound of
coarsely-ground coffee and 9 cups of water to the maker, which has a dacron (I
think) filter in it. You let this mixture sit overnight, then drain the liquid
through the filter into a carafe. You end up with a coffee concentrate that
you can rehydrate with hot or cold water to produce a low-acid, mellow, yet
tasty cup of brew. Since the oils found in coffee are extracted by contact
with hot water this cold-water method leaves these undesirable (for brewing
purposes) compounds out of the resulting coffee extract.
It has been my experience that this method of making coffee also leaves out a
fair amount of the coffee's body and (desirable) acidity, but enhances the
subtle aromas of different varietals -- the floral notes of Colombia, for
example, or the pungent wininess of Kenya. I would guess that a cup of Toddy
concentrate added to the secondary (or to the bottling bucket, even) would be a
good starting point for those wishing to experiment with this method.
I would be very interested to hear about results obtained by this technique --
if anybody goes for it keep the HBD apprised!
Jay (ex-Starbucks employee and self-styled coffee maven).
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 94 08:05 CDT
From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: DEATH THREATS
>From: Brian J. Cecil <Brian_J.._Cecil at wecnotes.semcor.com>
>Subject: HBD Testing
This is a test.
**EXTRACT**
>End of Test.
Interesting test. Now do it again and forge my signature so we can find out
if it is me or the subject.
>From: GANDE at slims.attmail.com
>Subject: Kill Jack Schmidling?
>Why does everyone jump all over Jack Schmidling? I've been reading
and posting to the HBD for 2 years now and whenever he say's
ANYTHING, a zillion posts are made to dispute his comments.
Let me see if I can fill it out. First of all, there is the conspiracy
theory. I am a vociferous opponent of foreign aid and that puts me in direct
conflict with the friends of the one country that receives about 75% of our
entire foreign aid budget.
The other possibility is simple envy. For some strange reason, home brewing
seems to promote the entrepreneurial spirit; either as a brewer or supplier
of brewing equipment. Many folks have been working at it for years with
little to show for it but the fun and experience. Through sheer genius or
serendipity (take your pick), shortly after joining this august group, I
introduced the MM which has been a smashing success and some narrow minded
wanabees just can't stand it.
When I gave away a free one after selling the first 100, I was called a liar
and a fraud and accused of commercializing the Digest by giving away a mill.
I have now sold over 2000 and can't imagine and don't really care what they
think but I suspect you are observing the reaction.
.........
I waited to post the above just to see how things would fall out and came to
the conclusion that it is utterly hopeless to address individuals in
responses. It just goes on and on and on with no one listening or reading
anything other then what they write or wish to believe I wrote.
Therefore, I will simply summarize my views and bow out.
The implication that KB makes mediocre beer was unfortunate and unintended.
I am not the kind of person that would criticize what I have no knowledge of.
I was simply drawing logical conclusions from the words he had written, viz.,
one can make better beer with all grain... he made his operation sound like
a monumental pain and that he was not interested in investing any more time
in it. He clearly made the point that for him, extract is cheaper to brew
than all grain.
Now, that is how I interpreted what he said and the reason for my asking, why
bother? Not an unreasonable question. If I misunderstood what he said, so
be it but I can only use the data provided and the limited capacity of my
humble brain.
Further, he stated that the variations in water chemistry cause widely
ranging fluctuations in extract yield. I do not/did not doubt that and
simply asked him to provide some numbers to support this statement.
I/we have been flooded with lectures on water chemistry and still have not a
single number that would support the word "widely" as applied to the extract
yield.
KB changed it to widely varying water chemisty and walked away from it.
I am sure KB makes fine beer and might be a water expert but changing the
argument and clouding the discussion with unrelated details does nothing but
waste everybody's time and energy.
It should also be obvious by now that lecturing me on diplomacy is equally a
waste of time. Long ago I came to realize that being "hurt" and insulted by
words is a self-inflected wound. Blaming someone else for how one feels is
the ultimate cop out and is simply a minifestation of emotional instability.
I have no problem recognizing mistakes and errors and I use this forum to
learn and share info on brewing but I seem to be able to do that without
getting emotionally bent everytime there is a discussion and it would be
nice if others could be a bit more tollerant also.
This is not a tavern and we can not see body language but contrary to the
common view, this should give us more liberty to be expressive and not to put
artificial constraints on our rhetoric.
I is what I is.
>From: Ash Baker <3AVHB at QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
> Can anyone suggest a way to mash in a 180 imperial gallon kettle, that will
later be used for the boil, with a hatch on the top, and a whacking big
electric heating element protruding into the kettle about eight inches from
the bottom?)
Glad you asked. It's called a MICROMASHER (tm) and is a large scale version
of the popular EASYMASHER (tm). If you would like more info, just ask but
don't tell KB about it.
js
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 1994 08:49:00 -600 (CDT)
From: Mark Evans <evanms at lcac1.loras.edu>
Subject: Flames:newest beer ingredient?/Malt sources
I have to respond with support to the brave souls who have come on line
AGAINST the preponderance of feuds between different brewing camps. Tip
o' the hat to Greg Tennefos and "wyatt at latitude, etc" for saying what alot
of us are thinking.
I found that one of the most interesting arguments that the
extract camp made against all-grain brewing was that it took more time and
that the all-grainers were construed as being snobs. We all do what we
want to
do, and sometimes we make sacrifices to do it a little better (at least in
our own minds). Recently I dropped my Zymurgy subscription in order to
save a few bucks (more money to throw towards my new mortgage). When I
went on-line this past winter and found the HBD, I was delighted that I
had a new source of Homebrew info. Lately the "room" has gotten a bit
noisy and I'm not sure that scrolling through all the notes is worth it.
Open discussion of issues and ideas is one things. We can all
learn new stuff from brief, well thought out messages. Extended
flames--overt or encoded--is a dangerous and offensive situation in the
sanitized world of cyberspace. Personalities are what make any discussion
lively. Respect and restraint are an essential part of this chemistry.
i hope that this note is not construed as being a flame to a
flame. Everyday notes come down the internet freeway about e-mail
etiquette, etc. If we can think of this forum--the internet--as being
the computerized fence over which we used to relate, then perhaps we
should accord our neighbors with the same decency and friendliness that we
did when we related face to face. Wow! This is going on too long!
To Andy Pastuszak: malt sources: Schreier and Breiss in Wisconsin. Great
two Row malt. Available for about $25 for 50# from the Malt Shop
1-800-235-0026. I even think the bag has a ph# on it and I'll post that
maybe.
Brewfully yours, mark Evans
<evanms at lcac1.loras.edu>
Dubuque, Iowa
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 94 10:18:50 EDT
From: gheiler at Kodak.COM (Greg Heiler)
Subject: Extract Full Sail Ale Recipe? Grain vs Extract
1. There has been a lot of discussion on grain vs extract brewing and
here's another twist. I would like to brew something close to Full Sail
Ale. I have 5 extract batches, with added specialty grains, under my
belt and now am considering all grain brwing. Can a close proximity be
made with extract? Does anyone have a recipe? Or do I need to go to all
grain brewing? If I can come close with extract brewing I would see no
need to go to all grain. I acknowledge "the recipe" plays the major
role in each.
2. Does anyone know if Red Tail Ale is close to Full Sail Ale?
Posted or direct comments appreciated. Thank-You
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 1994 11:28:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Steve Veillette, WCSU Information Systems" <VEILLETTE at WCSUB.CTSTATEU.EDU>
Subject: Wyeast American Ale / Using Spring Water
- -----
greggt at infi.net (Gregg Tennefoss) writes:
> I have never had any problems starting a ferment except when using wyeast
> american ale. both time I have used it, it has taken a couple days to get
> a good start. I aways make a starter and wait until it is working good prior
> to pitching. It just seems this one strain does not like me. Has anyone else
> had similar problems ? Interestingly enough, the two beers produced with this
> slow start have come out quite well with no noticable contamination from the
> slow start. TIA & Cheers
My two cents:
I just made a brown ale last weekend and I used the Wyeast American Ale.
I pitched it straight from the bag (I know, I know... make a starter... I'll
start doing that soon...). Anyway, 48 hours later, there was still no activity,
but a lot of yeast sitting on the bottom of the carboy. I bit my tongue and
roused the yeast by gently swirling the carboy. Eight hours later, there was
plenty of activity.
- -----
A question on water:
Since I don't particularly like the taste of the water that comes out of my
tap, I've always used spring water from the store. While reading Miller the
other night, trying to learn all about water, I was mulling over the effect of
sodium on the taste of the brew. Miller states that "Levels from 75 to 150 ppm
give a round smoothness..." The brands of spring water I use are either sodium
free or low sodium (less than 5mg. per 8 oz. serving).
Should I consider adding sodium (or is 5mg. enough), or is spring water a
bad idea? I realize this is a rather open ended question, but I welcome any
comments/suggestions.
-Steve Veillette
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 1994 10:33:50 CDT
From: "Roger Deschner " <U52983%UICVM at UIC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Re: Temperature Controller, homemade
Go to your friendly local wholesale heating/A.C. or refrigeration parts
place (look in Yellow Pages) and buy Honeywell part no. T6031A 1029.
Right temp range; has a nice probe to mount inside the fridge, and all
the works are outside in a box which you wire with a heavy-duty (14
gague) window air conditioner extension cord. Set your fridge/freezer
on max cold, and let the T6031A 1029 do its job.
Its about the same cost as your thermostat, but it's actually made to do
this job. This unit is what they install in the keg coolers in taverns.
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 94 12:30:36 EDT
From: djfitzg at VNET.IBM.COM
Subject: SLURRY
JUST A QUICK QUESTION FOR THE COLLECTIVE KNOWLEDGE ON THE HBD:
AFTER USING LIQUID YEAST, IS IT BETTER TO SAVE THE SLURRY FROM THE BOTTOM OF
THE PRIMARY, OR WAIT AND COLLECT WHAT DROPS TO THE BOTTOM OF MY SECONDARY?
THE ADVICE I GOT FROM MY SUPPLY STORE WAS TO SAVE THE SECONDARY.
SO FAR ITS WORKING FINE BUT I SEE COMMENTS ABOUT SAVING THE PRIMARY FROM TIME
TO TIME HERE IN THE HBD. THANKS FOR THE HELP IN ADVANCE.
ENOUGH ON EXTRACT VS. GRAIN ALREADY,
DAN FITZGERALD DJFITZG at VNET.IBM.COM
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 09 Apr 94 09:10:00 PDT
From: Timothy Sixberry <tsixber at msrapid.kla.com>
Subject: Easy Masher ?
I know for sure this has been discussed before, but could some kind soul out
there tell me exactly how the business end of an Easy Masher is made. I
would like to build a modified version to fit my own unusual mash vessel.
Thanks for the help.
tsixber at msrapid.kla.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 13:37:29 -0500
From: mgerard at engin.umich.edu
Subject: Question on Grain Mills...
How many grain mills are available for hombrewers?
I've seen posts on the Maltmill and the Corona grain
mill. How good are these and are there other mills out
there.
Thanks,
Mike
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 13:37:24 -0500
From: mgerard at engin.umich.edu
Subject: Question on 'Quality' Malt Extracts
In the all-grain vs. extract controversy there have been a
few mentions of 'Quality' malt extracts. My question is
which malt extracts are best and which ones should be
avoided.
Thanks,
Mike
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 94 10:50:30 MDT
From: npyle at n33.ecae.stortek.com
Subject: Dry Hopping/Bock!/BW
Tim Lawson writes that he uses pellets for dry hopping. I feel compelled to
mention that you will get a nicer aroma when dry hopping with fresh whole
cones, rather than pellets. The pelletization process has a negative
affect on the volatile hop aroma compounds. This is MHO of course, but I
believe people like George Fix, Dave Miller, and Glenn Tinseth would agree
with me (judging from some of their previous printed material). Getting
fresh whole cones is the key, so go to one of the quality mail order places
like The Hop Source, HopUnion, HopTech, etc. Of course, some local retail
stores are finally getting a clue about hop storage, so if you are lucky one
of these is in your area. Dry hop; its the right thing to do!
**
Richard Buckberg writes:
>Had a sample of Celis Bock (from the Hill Country of Texas! (sic) ) last
>night. This seemed to be a much lower ETOH bock than most. It had a
>wonderful maltiness, spicy but subtle hops, and cleaner smoother flavor than
>the Sierra Nevada bock I tasted along side it, or the German dopplebocks as
>I remember them.
I believe Celis Pale Bock (isn't that what he calls it?) is actually a pale
ale. This would explain the lower gravity and higher hopping rate. It is
named bock because of the archaic laws regarding brews in Texas. "Ales"
according to law, are above some randomly determined level of alcohol. This
brew was below this magical level, and thus couldn't legally be called an ale.
I think Pierre called it a bock as a joke. It is a good pale ale, though.
**
Regarding Scott's planned 18 year old barleywine, here' my suggestions:
Brew to a very high gravity, like 1.100 or better.
At least 80 IBUs!!! Use good hops.
Champagne bottles is very good idea because of the small head space to volume
ratio. I really don't think you should use a keg. I'd never want to tie one
up for a couple of years, much less a couple of decades. Moving bottles,
though they are fragile, is much easier than moving a keg. Also, if you
happen to sample one a year or something, the total moving volume reduces;
not so with a keg.
No priming sugar at all. Sanitation is not perfect and you will have some
bacterial and wild yeast activity breaking down some of the unfermentables.
My BW had no priming and is carbonating quite nicely after 6 months or so.
Use PureSeal caps, and sanitize with a mild bleach solution.
Disclaimer: my oldest beer is the 6 month old BW. I'll let you know how it
turns out in, say 2014...
Cheers,
Norm
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 94 9:10:27 MDT
From: npyle at n33.ecae.stortek.com
Subject: Brew Speak
dyeater at wpo.borland.com (who is u?) wrote that he doesn't get the lingo we
speak. It does sort of sound like pidgen at times, eh? Well, you have to
learn the terms a little at a time, like RIMS = Recirculating Infusion Mash
System. It is a bit of a misnomer, as the temperature is boosted by a
heating element in line with a recirculating pump, rather than infusions of
hot water. Hang in there, and you'll get the slang, and keep writing those
limericks!
Stephen Hudson asks about Papazian's liberal use of the term "sparge". He
throws that term about where others don't (well, not as much) so it can be a
little confusing. Sparging is the act of rinsing the good stuff out of some
solid material which should be left behind. Most of the time it is used to
indicate rinsing the sugars, etc. out of grain before putting it into the
boil. Since he is talking about after the boil, I assume he is describing
separating out the boil hops, and getting the wort into the fermenter. You
can "sparge" them with a flow of sanitized water, making sure you get
everything out of them, or you can just filter them out. Some people just
give them a good squeeze (note that I am talking about whole cones, not
pellets).
There was a young man from Ft. Worth,
Concerned with his wife's sizable girth.
He found it was nice,
Homebrew was her vice.
Thank God, no impending birth!
Norm (I'll keep my day job)
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 1994 19:42:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dennis Davison <exe01679 at char.vnet.net>
Subject: BW for daughters 21st
Scott, congratulations.
I would suggest using from 500 to 1000 IBU's for this 20 year old beer.
The hops will help preserve it and as it ages the bitterness will drop
out. Storing it in mass (corn. or carboy) would probably be better and
allow for a tighter seal than beer bottles. The problem you might face
with corn. is that the rubber seals may degrade in time. If you want to
play it super safe then transfer under pressure every few years from one
keg to another. I'd love to be around to give that beer a try.
Dennis Davison
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 94 18:09:11 PDT
From: bishop at magic.geol.ucsb.edu (Greg Bishop)
Subject: Wyeast #1056 American Yeast
>BREWING QUESTION:
>
>I have never had any problems starting a ferment except when using wyeast
>american ale. both time I have used it, it has taken a couple days to get
>a good start. I aways make a starter and wait until it is working good prior
>to pitching. It just seems this one strain does not like me. Has anyone else
>had similar problems ? Interestingly enough, the two beers produced with this
>slow start have come out quite well with no noticable contamination from the
>slow start. TIA & Cheers
>
>gregg tennefoss - greggt at infi.net
Gregg,
I have the same experience with Wyeast American Ale Yeast (#1056). It's
not just your bad luck. Even with good priming, my experience is that a
lag time of approximately 24-36 hours is normal. I also get good result
with no detection of bacteria infection.
I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Happy brewing,
Greg Bishop
Internet: bishop at magic.geol.ucsb.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 94 21:55:32 EST
From: ulick at augustine.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: Easymasher review and more
I have not been able to mail to hbd from my new account so I'll use my old one.
Anyway, I promised to report on the easy-masher for a stout made with
an infusion mash of 25% unmalted barley. The recipe was
2.5 lb barley flakes (purchased at a bulk food store. These had no husks
like brewing flakes do, but are 49 c/lb instead of
$1.90. Should stiffen the test anyway.)
1 lb roast barley
4 oz black patent malt
4.5 lb HDM Pale Ale malt
2 lb 6-row malt - to be sure, to be sure
The beer was infused with water and heated to 124 for a protein rest of
30 minutes. Infused with boiling water to 145 (at this stage the mash was
in about 15-20 quart of water) for about an hour. Then up to 160 for a while
before mashing out at 170. It was then added to the lauter tun - a 7 gallon
Gott cooler with the easy masher in instead of the false bottom. It was
just shoved in the hole and came off the first time I added the mash, at which
stage I had to empty the tun and repeat - a very HSA experience, perhaps.
Then I sparged. It took a longish time - a little over an hour, though I
didn't time it exactly. It didn't clog. Extract wasn't bad. I can't say
whether it was slower than my normal copper manifold would have been for
this difficult mash. I did have to cut the bed quite often when I used it
for a wit that was 55% unmalted adjuncts - infusion mashed. I would say
the easymasher is capable of handling most normal mashes, although I can't
comment on how its extract efficiency would compare to other false bottoms.
Nice to see a good old fashioned extract vs. all-grain pyrotechnic display
going on. It all depends on your goals. One of my goals is paying less for
ingredients than I would have to for the cheapest commercial beer - something
harder to achieve by brewing with extracts. However, there are a number
of huge hurdles to all graining, the main one of which is doing a full
boil - very tough on an electric kitchen range. It requires the purcahse
of a big pot, the construction of a lauter tun, the eventual purchase of
mill, and is of course more time consuming. In general better beers are
produced, but this may be as much a function of the fact that only serious
brewers all grain, while a lot of beer brewed with extract is brewed by
part timers :-). I know some extract brewers who produce good beer (not
as good as my own all-grain efforts, of course :-)) and I have brewed some
seriously off beers, like the beer from hell disaster - a monumental fuck up
few extract brewers could even dream of matching, and unfortunately
witnessed by a prospective homebrewer. However, in general extract beers
taste like extract beer. Partial mashing helps, but it is as time consuming
as full mashing, and as expensive as extract, but is a good alternative for
someone with a limited stove and limited space.
HBD is still good for a laugh every now and then. Saby Gordons titanium
brew pot had me in stitches so much I had to check the calendar! My
guess is that everything said about aluminum pots would pertain to titanium,
i.e. if your beer tastes metallic it could be due to corrosion. Otherwise,
I am sure it is a fine pot, and probably unique and a great conversation
piece. Can I buy it, or swap it for an old 7.5 gallon canner with an
easymasher?
__________________________________________________________________________
'Heineken!?! ... F#$% that s at &* ... | Ulick Stafford, Dept of Chem. Eng.
Pabst Blue Ribbon!' | Notre Dame IN 46556
| ulick at darwin.cc.nd.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: 10 Apr 94 02:24:35 EDT
From: "Glenace L. Melton" <71242.2275 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Wyeast American Ale
Gregg Tennefoss asked if anyone else had had trouble with Wyeast American
Ale yeast. I am sure others have had trouble, but it isn't the yeast's
fault! It so happened that last Tuesday morning at about 2:00 a.m. I
finished brewing a partial mash dark ale (O.G. 1.046), about 7.5 gal. I
had several days previously prepared an American Ale starter (date on the
package was about 2 March, 1994). I pitched 10 oz into the primary vat,
temperature about 94 degrees F. The next morning at 9 a.m. the
fermentation was going gang busters. All I can think of is for Gregg to
make about a gallon of sterile wort and pitch 4 or 5 different yeasts in
different bottles; keep them capped with plastic wrap held down with a
tight rubber band. He'll find out if he has too much chlorine or B-Brite
in his wort, or at least which yeast likes his method of preparation.
[END]
Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 1994 09:45:29 -0700
From: Don Put <dput at csulb.edu>
Subject: De Clerck's Textbook
The subject line says it all. Does anyone here know where I can find a
copy of the 2 volume English translation? I want to add it to my library.
I'd be willing to pay a fair price for it.
don
dput at csulb.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 94 10:23 CDT
From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: DEATH THREATS
>From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
>Subject: Galvanic Corrosion of Cu & CRES
>Okay, I just spoke with Jack Schmidling, proprietor of the EasyMasher(tm).
The EM incorporates a stainless steel screen clamped around a copper tube
attached.......... The only sign of galvanic activity was that the stainless
steel screen, where it contacted about 3/4 inch of the copper tube, was
stained a copper color.....
Not sure it is important but the copper color was over the entire tubular
strainer and not just where it contacted the copper tube. I think using the
term "copper color" is loading the statement. I agreed that it was that
color but if asked if it was brown I would also have said yes. Without
further data there is no reason to conclude that the coloring matter is
actually copper except that it fits into the senario that is being suggested.
I have occassionally soaked these screens in lye solution to clean them and
they come out looking like new. My guess would be that the material in
question is of organic origin and has nothing to do with galvanic activity.
On the same note, the inside of my 16 gal Polarware is a bit discolored but I
have always assumed that it was just a very minor form of rust or more of the
organic scale described above. It is all the way up to the top of the kettle
and not limited to the normal liquid level. It is also intersting to note
that it is only the boiler that shows this and the 10 gal Polarware that is
used for mashing and fermenting does not. However, I have no reason to even
know that they are the same stainless.
I will also bet that it will come off with the lye treatment but don't have
any on hand at the moment to prove it.
If it indeed turns out to be copper plating, I would be inclined to conclude
that it was more likely coming from the wort chiller than the 6" piece of
copper tubing on the EASYMASHER.
Finally, the BIG QUESTION is so what? If it moves from the copper to the
kettle, who cares? If some of it stays in the beer.... how much and so what?
Is copper toxic and if so at what level and what level are we dealing with
here?
If stuff from the SS is going the other way.... the same questions apply.
Iron clearly is not toxic and chrome has been used in food equipment for ever
and I have run out of gas....
>From: Doug Lukasik <LUKASIK_D at sunybroome.edu>
>Extract vs. All Grain.....woah......where do us PARTIAL MASHERS fit in??
Odd that I never hear from this content group. Is it that we are only
somewhat lazy, only brew really good beer some of the time, or that we are
partially in both camps so no one flames us???
You are closing in on the real issue here which is an international
conspiracy to humiliate homebrewers into buying a MALTMILL. As long as
people make extract beer they do not need a grain mill and they must be
harrassed until they come to their senses. If you do partial mashes, you are
well on the way so we let you alone. If they purchase a competative model,
they become a target for terrorist bombs unless they pay protection money to
the INTERNATIONAL MALTMILL CONSORTIUM or regularly post articles on how awful
their mills work.
Finally, by lying about how wonderful all grain beer is, we encourage
all-grainers to continue to brew enthusiastically so that a second-hand
market in MALTMILLS does not develop.
Simple, isn't it?
js
Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 94 13:51 EST
From: Jack Skeels <0004310587 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Armchair Psychologists/Hop Metrics/Crushed Grains
Hey folks,
One of the last JS-bashing analyses (Allan Rubinoff) I read was right on the
money. The style is called passive-aggressive, and can be particularly
annoying to some -- like me. I think it is important to remember that
EVERYBODY has a character style of some sort, and for my money Jack's
positive comments far outweigh and difficulty that I have with his style.
Some poeple have a character style that has a strong reaction to Jack's
style. That's life.
An a much more HBD-type note:
I realize that there are reams of information on hop bitterness transferred
to the wort via boiling time, wort gravity, etc. Is there any information
(of the same quasi-formulaic type) for hop flavor and aroma? What I'm
trying to ask is, how do I calculate (even ball-park) my flavor and aroma
creation during the boil? For example, when in the boil does flavor
extraction peak? Is is a "normal" curve? I would be extremely grateful for
any help, as I seem to be wildly oscillating between to much flavor and to
little in sucessive batches.
Also, I just tried my first partial mash, and it _seemed_ to go well, as I
came in a bit above the BRFWARE predictions for my OG. One thing I noticed
in the "spent" grains were a whole lot of not-really-crushed grains; they
still had pastey white stuff in them. Is this normal? I realize that this
may be a RDWHAHB, but I'm thinking that the shop that crushed them might not
have it's mill set properly. What say you, great font of HB knowledge?
Happy Brewing!
Jack Skeels
JSKEELS at MCIMAIL.COM
Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 1994 14:57:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ronald Tozzie <rt26+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Beer Can Collection
Beer Can Collection - pre 1976
Beer can collector is offering an extensive (500+)collection of
domestic and international beer cans.
The most prized offerings are from the Iron City Brewery (over
100). These 100 are unique limited editions of city scapes
and Steeler/Pirate commemerative sets. Prize cans include a
pre-"pull top" (solid top, use a can opener) and a "cone top"
with a bottle cap.
Also extensive U.S. Bicentenial collection many manufacturers.
Also a set of European gallon sized cans.
Many are steel (pre-aluminum)
Serious inquiries: rt26 at andrew.cmu.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 1994 13:55:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: J Dee Breshears <jbreshea at reed.edu>
Subject: Re: brewing schools
I am a junior chemistry major at Reed College here in Portland,
OR. A year and a half ago I began to realize the brewing masterpieces
available here; this began to spawn a terrific interest in brewing
itself. This interest has turned into a desire to become an accomplished
brewmaster. So, as I am currently in the dark about requirements, etc... I
was wondering if anyone reading this could e-mail addresses and information
on brewing schools in the United States & Germany. I am aware of the
small thread of discussion on this subject in recent issues of HBD, but
have no specific information on the brewing programs in SoCal. As a side
note I heard an unsubstantiated rumour that there exists a brewing
academy in Michigan; is this true? If there are some of you out there
who could help me out in obtaining the necessary information to contact
such institutions I would be greatly indebted. My address is
jbreshea at ftp.reed.edu. Thanks.
******************************|************************************************
The Crystal Squid | __/\__ /---\
| \/ \/ /____/___o
Ia! Ia! Praises to Lord Enki, | /\ /\ o /
Father of Marduk! Remember us!| / \/ \ \__/
******************************|************************************************
Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 1994 15:52:15 -0800
From: dyeater at wpo.borland.com
Subject: My beer needs more, uh, oomph!
I need advice from you professionals.
I just tasted my second batch of extract pale ale (the only two
batches I've ever brewed) after two weeks in the bottle and it has the
same problem as the first--a real lack of body and character. I'm not
talking about hop bitterness or aroma. The first batch was, to my palate,
perfectly hopped, the second batch (having used fresher hops) is very
bitter. If the second batch had more body and character it might have
offset the bitterness, but alas... The hop part I think I can figure out
myself, but the malt part has me bewildered.
For the first batch I used Alexander's with the Kicker for a five gallon
batch. I also "teabagged" a lb of Crystal 20. Since it seemed to lack in
flavor I decided to use a darker amber extract for the second batch. So, I
used a 7 lb bag of American bulk amber syrup that the local Brew Club in
Santa Cruz sells, and teabagged a lb of Crystal 60. The extract tasted fine
from the bag, but the final result hasn't got the malty character I want. I
have compared the batches against pale ales that I like (Sierra Nevada,
for example) and it's missing some key flavor components. I'm not
trying to make it heavier, just more interesting.
I hate to brew another batch and end up with the same disappointing
results. Does anyone have any ideas about what the problems could be.
Should I try a very different extract, use some different grains, or ???.
I'm not the only one that feels this way about my brews. Friends have
tried it and say it's VERY drinkable, but uninspired. How can I inspire my
beer?
Thanks in advance.
Return to table of contents
From: ulick at ulix.cheg.nd.edu
id m0pq9D9-0006QEC; Sun, 10 Apr 94 18:46 EST
Message-Id: <m0pq9D9-0006QEC at ulix>
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 94 18:46 EST
From: ulick at ulix.cheg.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Subject: test
test.
ulick
Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1395, 04/11/94