FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Does RIMS over-clarify? (slkinsey)
  Re: #1(2) Homebrew Digest #1396 (April 12, 1994) (repiii)
  Champagne bottles vs. 12 ouncers/Wyeast Belgian White 3944 (Stefan  Smagula)
  Raspberry flavoring (Maj Don Staib )
  Spousal abuse (ektsr)
  Secondary Problems (Doug Lukasik)
  Worried About My Porter (Michael Ell)
  Re: Importance of BW ferment yeast removal (Jim Busch)
  Ripple Airlocks (DSHEA)
  RE: 3 gal corny kegs/King Kooker mod (Jim Dipalma)
  re: extract $ (TODD CARLSON)
  Belgian hybrid (VIALEGGIO)
  Canadian brewpub resources (ROSS)
  wild hops in the Rockies (Phil Duclos)
  Reusing yeast and misc. (John DeCarlo              x7116          )
  Draught system problems (Bob Jones)
  Re: yeast rehydration (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Re: What am I doing wrong (kegging question)? (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Re: Does RIMS over-clarify? (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Kegging into PET bottles (Frank Longmore)
  All grain VS Extract (Thomas_Fotovich-U2347)
  Belgian Yeasts (douglas_vanommeran)
  Address for Kegs/Humor Impaired Readers (JEBURNS)
  Tokyo Info Request ("Robert H. Reed")
  Plastic Water Bottles (Mike_Christy_at_mozartpo)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 22:55:26 EDT
From: slkinsey at aol.com
Subject: Does RIMS over-clarify?

I just read Dave Miller's article in the latest issue of Brewing Techniques,
and an interesting issue came up.  A writer was disputing the practice of
wort recirculation for clarification because doing so could "filter out" most
of the lipids, which yeast use in performing their yeastly duties.  A
scarcity of lipids can contribute to "long lag times, slow fermentations, and
other symptoms of poor yeast nutrition."  
Anyway, besides extolling the positive benefits of recirculation, Miller
replied that the degree of recirulation typically employed by homebrewers
would be unlikely to produce problems.  However, he did mention a brewery
that was able to clarify their wort through recirculation until it was as
clear as filtered beer... as a result they did experience these problems, and
actually traced it to a "lipid deficiency" caused by over-clarification. 
They were then able to solve the problem by shortening their vorlauf, and
starting with a somewhat less clear wort.
How does this apply to RIMS, you ask?  Given that the wort is being
recirculated constantly for an hour or more, and that a brilliantly clear
wort is typically produced - is it not logical that RIMS-produced worts would
suffer from a paucity of lipids?
My questions to all of you are:  Well... what's the deal here?  Is my logic
sound?  Do RIMS users frequently experience fermentation problems
attributable to a lipid-poor wort?  Does/can RIMS produce a lipid-poor wort? 
If so, what can be done to minimize this problem?  How does one test for
lipids, anyway?
This ought to give the techies something to chew on for a while ;-)    ------
  thanks for your help.

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Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 23:26:07 EDT
From: repiii at aol.com
Subject: Re: #1(2) Homebrew Digest #1396 (April 12, 1994)

From: Bob Bessette <bessette at uicc.com>
Subject: How much cheaper is all-grain than extract?
I just started brewing all-grain and I can tell you it's a lot cheaper than
extract except in time.
I too was spending $20-$30 for an extract brew batch of 5 gallons, the other
day I made 10 gallons for less than $20 but it took about 6 hrs. I think I
can cut that down with better equipment and experience but there is definatly
a time penalty involved. Of course the beer I made is much better than I did
with extract but overall there are no free lunches.

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Date: 13 Apr 94 00:15:11 EDT
From: Stefan Smagula <74071.327 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Champagne bottles vs. 12 ouncers/Wyeast Belgian White 3944

Hi, I'm new, even though I'm posting in Stefan's account.  My name is
Maria, and I have an observation and a question about brewing Belgian
Ales.

First the observation.  I recently made a Belgian Specialty beer from a
recipe called Chou-chou in Pierre Rajotte's book.  I bottled some of the
beer in champagne bottles and the rest of it in 12 ounce regular beer
bottles.  The beer carbonated in the champagne bottles tasted
consistently better than the beer in the 12 ounce bottles.  The
champagne bottled ale was sweeter and had less of the sharp, alcoholic
bite which the smaller bottles had (the original gravity of the beer was
1.077).  I think the difference might be due to the smaller air space
proportional to the amount of beer in the champagne bottles vs. the beer
bottles.  Has anyone else experienced this phenomenon?

Here's my question: I'm going to brew a batch of Wit beer using Wyeast
Belgian White 3944.  Does anyone know what the origin of the yeast is?  

Thanks!

- ---Maria


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Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 22:44:09 -0600
From: staib at oodis01.hill.af.mil (Maj Don Staib )
Subject: Raspberry flavoring

I'd say you're lucky with the amount of flavor you got if you added
your extract to the boil.

I get my Raspberry flavoring from HopTech out in California.  They
specialize in Fresh hops, but they do a great extract, same ones
supplied to commercial breweries.  No preservatives, added just prior
to kegging or bottling so no flavor is lost during the ferment.  They
contain no sugar, so it won't affect your priming.  One 4oz bottle per
5 Gal.  Their catalog provides more detailed instructions for light
beers through stouts.  1 800 DRY HOPS.

Personal experience: The raspberry wheat I made a few months back is
quite possibly the best all-malt brew I have made, and I have been
brewing for 8 years. (just a personal opinion).

Enjoy, and give it a try (they do blueberry, cherry, peach and pear).

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 08:02:36 EDT
From: ektsr at aol.com
Subject: Spousal abuse

Gentle Homebrewers,

Being one of the new kids on the block, I have thoroughly enjoyed the
comments and wisdom of HBD.  A common thread I have seen are the occasional
horror stories / dipilitating looks that spouses or significant others give
when involved in this thing we love.  I would be willing to condense stories
and post.  Please e-mail and I'll set to the task.   

Stan White, EKTSR at aol.com
BTW, mine would be a horrible burnt wort stench.  Do you know what a mess a
few quarts of wort can make in a kitchen....

 ................................
THE WAY TO BE IS TO DO.. Lau Tsu

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 09:08:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Doug Lukasik <LUKASIK_D at sunybroome.edu>
Subject: Secondary Problems

Hope somebody out there in HBDland can tell me what is going on in my secondary
fermenter.  I have a Porter in secondary that has been dryhopped with 1 oz of 
Cascades (7.4AA) whole leaf hops, in a hop bag, weighed down with marbles.  The
bag and marbles were boiled for 5 minutes to sterilize before use.  The Porter
has Wyeast 1098 (British) yeast in it.  Problem:  A white haze that sticks to
the glass of the carboy has developed at the bottom.  It rises from the dead
yeast up about 2 inches.  Every so often it looks like it has been scraped 
off with a knife (the best way to describe this is to think of a window pane 
with a layer of ice on it, take a fingernail and scrape off a line of ice, then
repeat this over and over).  After this happens the haze comes back until it is 
thick again and then it seems to get scraped off again.

This same thing has happened in other ales that I have dryhopped but never in 
one that has not been.  It does not seem to be an infection as it has never 
effected the aforementioned brews.  When racking to the bottling bucket this 
stuff just settles right down into the trub as the beer level goes down.  Any
idea as to what this is? or what causes it?  Could it have something to do with 
the hop oils?

Wyeast 1098 British is a yeast I do not think I will ever use again.  Took for
ever to get it out of suspension and then when I moved the carboy it went right
back into suspension and had to sit for another 2 days before it cleared well 
enough to bottle (and I was very carefull when moving the carboy not to shake
it up).  It also seems to have a smell to it that reminds me of lager yeasts 
during primary fermentation...almost sulpherish.  Anyone else experience this 
using this type of yeast.  (my $.02 - I love Wyeast American and have not had 
any problems with lag times....could be due to the use of 1 pint starters....
I find this to be one very clean yeast :^)

TIA

Doug.  <lukasik_d at sunybroome>

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 09:30:42 EDT
From: michael at bio01.bio.uottawa.ca (Michael Ell)
Subject: Worried About My Porter

I am a relatively new extract brewer (at least for the time being). I have
been following the HBD for about two months and my question has to do with some
of the posts dealing with exploding bottles. Specifically, I'm wondering if I
have to worry about it with one of my batches. The batch is a porter made in a
3 U.S. gallon full boil with the following recipe:

1 kg John Bull Dark Malt Extract, unhopped
1 kg John Bull Dark Malt Extract, hopped
250 g Chocolate Malt
250 g Crystal Malt
1 oz Fuggles (60 min boil)
4" Cracked Cinnamon Stick
1 Package Windsor Dry Yeast

Things went fine with the specialty grains and subsequent boil to yield an
O.G. of 1.060. The yeast was started in a 200ml starter but never really got up
to speed so I supplemented it with a shot of yeast from the secondary of the
last batch which was still going. The next morning, everything was going gang-
busters which continued for 4 days at which point I racked to the secondary
(gravity now 1.040). I got one day of action from the air lock (an S-style)
after which there was nothing, not even a pressure differential visible. To be
on the safe side, I left it for a further 10 days before I decided to bottle. At
this point the gravity was 1.028 but I assumed this was due to unfermentables
so I bottled with 3/8 cup corn sugar (only 3 gallon batch).

>From reading posts now, I think that I may have jumped the gun on bottling and
that some of the gravity may have been due to fermentables as well as unferms.
Is 1.028 an unusually high terminal gravity for a porter as I have described? If
so, do I need to worry about bottle bombs or will I just have overcarbonated
porter? BTW, I'm not sure if it matters but I bottled in flip-top bottles
similar to Grolsh.

Thanks in advance for any help. You can reply at michael at bio01.bio.uottawa.ca
if you don't think the answers may be of general interest.

Michael Ell
michael at bio01.bio.uottawa.ca

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 09:26:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Importance of BW ferment yeast removal

Norm writes:
> Subject: 18 yr. BW
> 
> Jim writes about the proposed 18 year Barley Wine:
> 
> >One of the points that has been overlooked in this thread is autolysis.  For
> >a keeping beer like this, it is even more important to remove the ferment
> >yeast using secondaries and maybe racking between corny kegs and force
> >priming.  A 3 or 5 gallon corny would seem ideal, in ease and sanitation.
> 
> Why is the ferment yeast any more important to remove than the priming yeast
> (Jim also mentioned adding priming yeast as one alternative)?  After 18 years,
> I don't think the difference in age of a few months will be significant (the
> ferment yeast is a few weeks/months older than the priming yeast).  This is
> assuming that you end up with equal amounts of yeast in the finished product.
> Force carbonating would seem to be the ticket to avoid autolysis, but don't
> several commercial BWs bottle condition?

Because high alcohol ferments are very hard on yeast cells.  Fermentation
yeast in general is not good to have on your finished beer.  In most cases,
it is not of significance.  I wish I could give you a more technical 
answer, but Im an engineer, not a yeast doctor.   I would assume that the
strength of the cell walls are diminished, and the chances of yeast shock
and subsequent excretion of fermentation byproducts are increased.  The
ferment yeast will basically be dead cells, and you dont want these cells
exploding into your prized BW.  Beers like Bigfoot are filtered to remove
the fermentation yeast prior to force carbonating *and* a minute amount
of bottle conditioning (like all of Sierra's ales, except the wheat). There
is no way of assuming what ratio of yeast cells would have come from 
fermentation carryover vs krausening yeast.  You can calculate the quantity
of cells that will be from krausening yeast, albeit it will be a rough 
estimate.  

AS for practical BW creation:  I dont age my BWs into the "years" and "years"
before we enjoy them.  In Sept, I made my latest BW, it fermented for 2 weeks
in the primary, then went straight into kegs, with hop bags.  No filtering,
no priming.  I warm conditioned for a few weeks, then deep freeze (31F) /
force carbonate for a few more, then counterpressured into a few competition 
bottles.  The beer is consumed within 8 months or so.  It took first in 
the BW category in the latest Bluebonnet brewoff, and was runner up for 
BOS.  I just dont agree with the concept of *required* aging of BWs, but
I must admit the idea of doing this for a daughters Bday is appealing.

Good brewing,

Jim Busch

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Date:          Wed, 13 Apr 1994 09:14:25 EST
From: DSHEA at medisense.com
Subject:       Ripple Airlocks

Tom Aylesworth recently wrote:

>The last time I was at my local homebrew store, I decided to pick 
>up a spare airlock.  Nothing was wrong with my previous one, but I
>thought a spare seemed like a good idea (esp. since they are only 
>$1).
>Since I've seen several people recommending them, I bought one of
>the ripple shaped locks, instead of another three-piece one.  I
>decided to try the ripple one on the most recent brew, but as I 
>was about to use it, I took a close look at it and realized the 
>cap to it didn't have holes in it.  The cap to my other airlock 
>has two small pin-holes to let CO2 escape.  Is the ripple type 
>supposed to be used without the cap on it?  Does it matter?  Just 
>wondering . . .

If you look at the inside of the cap, you may notice that there are 
small ridges molded into the cap.  This leaves some space between the 
cap and the top of the airlock, allowing CO2 to escape.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
              From: David Shea, MediSense, Inc.
*** I can be reached on the Internet at David.Shea at medisense.com ***
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 09:51:40 EDT
From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma)
Subject: RE: 3 gal corny kegs/King Kooker mod


   Hi All,

   Mike Lobo asks:

>    In yesterdays HBD, Jim Busch mentions 3 gal corny kegs.  Does anyone know
>of a place that sells these?

	Mike, since you're in the New England area, try Something's Brewing in
Burlington, VT, 802-660-9007, and ask for Tom Ayres.  I recently organized a
bulk purchase of 3 gallon cornys for the homebrew club of which I'm a member.
We got a very good price, and the kegs arrived in good condition.  I bought
three myself, and absolutely love them, they're great for taking homebrew on
the road.

    Usual disclaimer, no financial connection, just a very satisfied customer.

******************************************************************


>I'd appreciate a re-post of the information regarding
>modification of the King Kooker to produced less
>carbon on low flame settings.

    With the help of a friend, I made this mod recently.  We removed the brass
end cap from the gas jet, put a sheet metal screw in the existing hole and
ground it flush.  We then drilled a 1/16" hole in the next facet to the
"right", the "clockwise/tighter" direction.  This is so when the end cap is
replaced, and the new hole aligned, the end cap fits a little tighter than
before, rather than looser.
    After making this mod, I no longer get any soot on the bottom of my
brewpot, since I get a nice, clean, blue flame even at low settings.  I also
get about twice as many batches out of a tank of propane than before.


                     Cheers,
                      Jim

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 10:19:55 EST
From: carlsont at GVSU.EDU (TODD CARLSON)
Subject: re: extract $

          Bob asked about lowering brew cost for extract brewers by
          going all grain.  I too have wondered the same but instead
          lowered extract brewing costs by shopping around.  The Malt
          Shop in Cascade, WI (800-235-0026) sells a case of 10 boxes
          of Northwestern extract for under $50.  With shipping to MI
          it came to $11/5 gal batch of beer (2 boxes = 6.6 lbs).  The
          Winemaking Shoppe in Sugar Grove, IL (708-557-2523) sells
          1 lb bags of hops (many varieties) for under $6.  I've been
          using yeast from a bottle of Sierra Nevada Pale ale ($1.25
          plus the cost of dry malt extract for starter).  Repitch
          sediment from secondary fermentor to cut yeast cost in 1/2.
          Both of the places above have good specialty grain prices
          (less than $1/lb for DWC Belgian).  So add it all up an I
          am getting 5 gal of extract brew for under $20.  Not as low
          as all grain but better than your $28-$30.  It really helps
          to buy in bulk and share with friends.

          bla bla bla bla bla standard disclimer bla bla bla bla bla

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Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 10:50:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: VIALEGGIO at ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject: Belgian hybrid


               State University of New York at Stony Brook
                       Stony Brook, NY 11794-5475

                                            Victor Ialeggio
                                            Music
                                            516 632-7239
                                            12-Apr-1994 10:14am EDT
FROM:  VIALEGGIO
TO:    Remote Addressee                     ( _homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com )

Subject: Belgian hybrid

Here's a recent batch I thought I'd share--
grain: 7.5# pale, 2# munich, 1.5# crystal (c.50L),
1# carapils
1-step mash  at 154; mash-out as usual
Fuggles/Hallertauer (50/50 blend), AAU=c12
(Miller's hopping schedule for Trappist: 2/3 
for 45 min., 1/3 added last 15 min. total boil, 75 min.)
Steep off heat w/generous handfull Hallertauer
Chimay rouge culture (1 qt--probably more, I kept feeding
the culture with sterile wort from last session until I
had time to brew)
OG .1064 

bubbling away at full-steam after 6 hours (!!) new land 
speed record, for me anyway...I don't know why, but yeast 
just cracks me up. I like to lie down and watch it churn 
in the evening after kids are in bed and house is quiet--my 
wife finds this comical.

this edition does without brown/candi sugar...no purist 
thing on my part, just wanted to try something new. 
vialeggio at ccmail.sunysb.edu

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 10:52 EDT
From: ROSS at mscf.med.upenn.edu
Subject: Canadian brewpub resources

Date sent:  13-APR-1994 10:49:20 

	I currently own the book On Tap and one of its updates that lists
brewpub information in the USA and would like to know if a similar book
exists for Canada.  I will be travelling to Toronto and Montreal this summer
and would like to visit the local brewpubs and right now don't have any
information.  Also, if there is a file with this information that I could
FTP, please let me know.

	Thanks.

			--- Andy Ross ---
                    University of Pennsylvania

                    ross at mscf.med.upenn.edu

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 08:53:15 MDT
From: pjd at craycos.com (Phil Duclos)
Subject: wild hops in the Rockies

>Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 15:10:57 MST
>From: birkelan at adtaz.sps.mot.com (Joel Birkeland)
>Subject: Native Hops/JS

>Native Hops:

>As I was perusing my "Sunset Western Garden Book" I noticed a short
>paragraph on Native American Hops (Humulus Americanus [?]), which they
>stated were very similar to H. Lupulus, and occurred naturally in the
>southern Rockies.  Has anyone heard of these before?

>I find this interesting, since the southern rockies might possibly
>include regions outside what is considered optimal for H. Lupulus.

	I was out hiking one day near here (Colorado Springs) and ran across
some odd looking plants with cone-like flowers. They were hops and the cones
were dry, just a bit brown on the tips. Dismembering the cones I found small
quantities of yellow lupulin glands (sp?) I collected a couple of pounds and
took them home.

	Dried them out further on some newspaper and did a 1 gal. test batch.
I forget how much I put in, it was a little more than the usual as they had
less yellow than the commercial hops I had. Unfortunately the brew wasn't
very good. It had an "odd" flavor, one that was not very appealing. It was
somewhat bitter, so the hops did work. Too bad. My dreams of a quick harvest
of free "wild" hops vanished.

	Perhaps it was the growing conditions - poor soil, hillside, lack of
regular water, ???  Don't know. Next bunch I run into in a different location
I'll check, just to note differences.

	If you are in the Rockies during August or September keep your eyes
peeled for some familiar looking plants with funny cone-like flowers.

phil


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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 10:58:10 EST
From: John DeCarlo x7116 <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Reusing yeast and misc.

My take on whether to save yeast from primary or secondary.  First of 
all, if you can "crop" the yeast from the top of the primary, you are 
better off than using sludge.  But that requires the right setup (open 
fermenter, wide-top fermenter, BrewCap, etc.).

Reusing sludge from primary.
  Advantages:  yeast is fresher, not damaged by alcohol yet
  Disadvantages:  lots of stuff in there you don't want near your beer
Reusing sludge from secondary.
  Advantages:  sludge is cleaner
  Disadvantages:  yeast damaged by alcohol, though this is dependent
                  on time and alcohol content of beer.

My suggestion (and what *I* do):
  Reuse from primary but *wash* your yeast.  Washing, even with boiled 
and cooled water (instead of an acid-wash which can clean even better), 
is relatively easy and you get clean yeast slurry to reuse.

The other thing I do from time to time is dump cooled wort into a 
primary that has just been emptied.  I usually do this with similar 
recipes (rack weizen to secondary and put cherry wheat beer wort in 
primary or go from porter to stout or somesuch).


Misc. comment.  Jack says:
>As I may have said a time or two, em in pot = mashtun = lautertun =
>boiler = fermenter.

I might as well point out that even under this rosy scenario you do need
another pot--to collect the runnings in until you clean out the 
lautertun of grains.  I find it easier (though I use a copper manifold 
instead of an em) to have one pot as mastun/lautertun and another as 
boiler--that way I just sparge into the boiler.

John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo at mitre.org


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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 08:20:57 +0900
From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: Draught system problems

Mark E. Stull wrote "What am I doing wrong (kegging question)?"

>
>I'm having a bit of a problem with my kegging set-up, and thought I'd
>turn to the collective wisdom of the net - I know someone's got to know
>the answer to my problem.
>
>In a nutshell, the problem is that my beers are being dispensed as foam.
>I've got them in the fridge under ~ 15 lbs. of pressure.  Unable to wait
>any longer, I just had to try some after letting it sit under pressure
>for about a week to carbonate.  So I hooked up my dispenser nozzle, with
>its two feet of hose, and proceeded to draw a mug of foam.  This isn't 
>right, I said to myself.  Upon reading the kegging proto-FAQ, I realized
>that maybe a 6-foot length of dispensing hose was the answer.  So I acquired
>six feet of hose (3/16" ID, if I'm reading it right), hooked it up, and...
>foam.  Cursing quietly to myself, I lowered the pressure in the keg to less
>than 5 lbs., and (you guessed it)... foam.  Once the foam settles, I've got
>a part of a mug of pretty flat beer.  If I'm patient, I can draw enough of
>a mug to make it worthwhile in about ten minutes.
>

Sounds like your on the right track with the hose length. You shouldn't need
6 feet about 4-5 feet usually is fine. The pressure drop per foot is about 3
psi so 4 feet gives you 12 psi drop. I use the 3/16id PVC hose (food grade
of course). Now 15 psi can be a bit high for some styles of beer. I have
observed big foam problems with some bocks and dextrinous porters. Just back
the gas down until they pour well. This may take a while because CO2 is slow
to come out of solution. Another important point is the temp of the beer.
The colder the better! CO2 stays in solution better at colder temps. You got
to compromise here on temp for pretty good luck at 41-43 degf. I hope you
aren't using one of those silly cobra head taps. They are about useless for
despensing beer except in an emergency. They don't have the tappered opening
that really is needed to properly dispense beer. Invest in a good beer tap.
Also check your regulator to insure it is reading the correct pressure. Hope
these suggestions help.

Bob Jones
bjones at novax.llnl.gov



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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 08:30:47 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: yeast rehydration

>>>>> "Tom" == Tom  <AYLSWRTH at MANVM2.VNET.IBM.COM> writes:

Tom> 1) I have seen several posts in the HBD recommending rehydrating dry
Tom>    yeast in warm water, instead of wort.  Dave Miller recommends putting
Tom>    1 pint of wort into a sterile jar and rehydrating yeast in it.  I
Tom>    have always used this suggestion, but this time decided to try the
Tom>    warm water method.  

Tom> Thomas Aylesworth
Tom> Internet: aylswrth at manvm2.vnet.ibm.com  |  PROFS: Tom at MANVM2

After reading many different ways of making yeast starters I took the
following guidelines for use:

1) Rehydrate in water, not wort.
2) Transfer to wort of SG 1020.

This is working super for me.  The rehydration in water is in 3/4 cup
100F water for 10 to 15 grams of dry yeast.  The 1020 wort is made
from 1 1/4 cups water and 7 tsp. DME boiled together for 10 minutes.
When both the rehydrate and the wort come down to 75F, they are
pitched together.  By putting the hotter mini-wrot flask in a water
bath, and not using a water bath for the rehydrate flask, they both
come down to the same temperature at about the same time.

dion

Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 08:40:29 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: What am I doing wrong (kegging question)?

Even if you have gotten the dispensing pressure right and the length
of hose right, you will still find that the first glass or two will be
foam.  The second and subsequent glasses will settle down and show you
the real equilibrium of your system.  Just think of going into a
brewpub.  How many times do you see the barkeep pour off a glass of
foam and then draw a perfect beer?  This will happen to you at home
also.  I find that 10 psi and 6 feet of hose work well for me.  And
yes, 3/16" hose is the right stuff.

dion

Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 08:44:59 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Does RIMS over-clarify?

>>>>> "slkinsey" == slkinsey  <slkinsey at aol.com> writes:

slkinsey> I just read Dave Miller's article in the latest issue of
slkinsey> Brewing Techniques, and an interesting issue came up.  A
slkinsey> writer was disputing the practice of wort recirculation for
slkinsey> clarification because doing so could "filter out" most of
slkinsey> the lipids, which yeast use in performing their yeastly
slkinsey> duties.  A scarcity of lipids can contribute to "long lag
slkinsey> times, slow fermentations, and other symptoms of poor yeast
slkinsey> nutrition."

slkinsey> How does this apply to RIMS, you ask?  Given that the wort
slkinsey> is being recirculated constantly for an hour or more, and
slkinsey> that a brilliantly clear wort is typically produced - is it
slkinsey> not logical that RIMS-produced worts would suffer from a
slkinsey> paucity of lipids?  My questions to all of you are:
slkinsey> Well... what's the deal here?  Is my logic sound?  Do RIMS
slkinsey> users frequently experience fermentation problems
slkinsey> attributable to a lipid-poor wort?  Does/can RIMS produce a
slkinsey> lipid-poor wort?  If so, what can be done to minimize this
slkinsey> problem?  How does one test for lipids, anyway?

With the exception of my last brew which I 1) changed yeast and 2) did
not make a yeast starter, I use a RIMS and get vigorous ferementation
within 2 or 3 hours after pitching.  I can ferment a 1060 wort down to
1020 in 3 or 4 days with ale yeast.  If I am having yeast problems due
to starvations for lipids, I can't tell it.  My wort at the end of
recirculation is crystal clear.

dion

Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 10:54:09 -0500 (CDT)
From: Frank Longmore <longmore at tyrell.net>
Subject: Kegging into PET bottles

         Introducing the "FrankenBrau-Cap" (tm)

Special LOW cost accessory available in your local auto parts store!!!

Hey folks, I've been using my own version of a PET bottle pressure
adapter.  It allows me to pressure carbonate small quantities of brew,
and to bring small quantities to parties, picnics, etc... It's cheap
and almost disposable!

Just buy a few automotive valve core bodies (with valve cores).
They cost about .45 - .90 at an auto parts store.  Please buy _new_
ones.....!  Take the plastic cap from the PET bottle, and carefully
drill a 1/2" dia. hole, from the inside, using a brad-point bit,
to get a clean smooth edge.  Be careful to get the hole centered
in the cap.  Then press and pull the valve core into the cap
(from the inside).  Presto!

To carbonate, I made an adapter with the gas-in fitting from a
cornelius keg, a teflon threaded tube from the hardware store, and
a new tire inflator air chuck from an auto supply store.

To use:  First purge the air from the PET bottle with 15 seconds
of CO2.  Then fill the PET bottle about 3/4 full of un-carbonated
beer.  Cap tightly, then pressurize to about 15 psi.  Put it in the
refrigerator to cool down.  Then bring the CO2 pressure back up to
15 psi and agitate a lot to dissolve the CO2. 

Works great!  Keeps pressure for weeks!

Just send me $5.00 per "FrankenBrau-cap" (tm) and I'll use the
money for a beer tasting expedition to Bavaria!

Brew-ho-ho-ho
Frank

  >>>>>>>>>> Frank Longmore    Internet:   longmore at tyrell.net  <<<<<<<<<<<
  >>>>>>>>>> Olathe, Kansas    Compuserve: 70036,1546           <<<<<<<<<<<
  >>>>>>>    I feel more like I do now than I did when I started... <<<<<<<



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Date: 13 Apr 94 09:49:00 -0500
From: Thomas_Fotovich-U2347 at email.mot.com
Subject: All grain VS Extract

     I sent this to bessette at uicc.com but, on futher reflection, felt the 
     general HBD public would be interest>
     
     -----------
     
     I just recently converted from extract to all grain.  There are a 
     couple of things to consider.  
     
     First, you need some form of kettle to boil _at least_ 7 gallons of 
     water/wort (this can run anywhere from $60+ for a used 1/2bbl keg to 
     150+ for a Vollrath 38 quart pot(1) (this is what is use)).  
     
     Second, you'll need a heat source to boil 7 gallons of stuff.  A 
     "cajun cooker" that supplies 200,000 btu will cost about $50.  Some 
     just use their stove top.  I use a "cajun cooker."
     
     Third you'll need a mash tun and lauter tun.  These can be one in the 
     same.  You can make your own (a la Papazain) or order one (which is 
     what I did for $35(2)).  Some use a cooler to mash and then sparge 
     separately in a lauter tun (this is what I do).
     
     Fourth, you'll need something to crush your grain or order the grain 
     pre-crushed.  A mill will cost you anywhere for $40 on up.  Most 
     places which sale grain charge a nominal fee for crushing ((2) charges 
     $0.05 per lb).
     
     Fifth, you'll need something to chill the wort, a wort chiller.  These 
     can run from $26.90 (1) on up.
     
     
     Okay, once the equipment has been acquired, the real saving begins.  I 
     just finished my first all grain IPA.  All ingredients where purchased 
     from (2).
     My IPA
     
     8 lbs. Pale Malt    ($0.79/lb.)           $ 6.32 
     1 lb.  Wheat Malt   ($1.29/lb.)           $ 1.29 
     1 lb.  Pale Crystal ($1.29/lb.)           $ 1.29 
     1 oz   East Kent Golding  60 min boil
     1 oz   East Kent Golding  15 min boil 
     1 oz   East Kent Golding  dry hopped  
                             Total hops cost   $ 2.45 (*)
     Wyeast 1056 American Ale                  $ 3.75 
     1 Tbl  Irish Moss                           n/a
                                               ------ 
                              Total Cost       $15.10 (excluding shipping)
     
     (*) 6 oz pelletized hops cost 4.90
     
     Grains had a protein rest at 125^ F.  Mashed at 155^ F.   Sparged 170^ 
     F. (per Papazain).  1 oz of hops was boiled for 60 min, 1 oz at the 
     last fifteen min, and the last oz was dry hopped.  Irish Moss was 
     added in the last five minutes of boil. (Don't forget to rehydrate the 
     Irish Moss 6 hours before use!)
     
     
     So, as you can see, all grain is cost effective for _materials_.  The 
     cost in time, though, is expensive.  From clean kitchen to clean 
     kitchen is about 6.5 hours for me.  (Can't get something for nothing.)
     
     Hope this helps.  All grain is easy.  Really.
     
     
     (1)  William's Brewing  1-800-759-6025 
     (2)  Brewers Resource   1-800-827-3983
     
     #include <Normal.disclaimer>
     
     Paddy Fotovich
     Motorola UDS
     u2347 at email.mot.com   

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 09:22:52 
From: douglas_vanommeran at broder.com
Subject: Belgian Yeasts


 I'm glad to hear of the Paris-bound beerhunter...nice to have friends 
 (hell...they don't even need to be that)in the right places (or just 
 visiting).  I have a genetic predisposition to Belgian ales and am seeking 
 sources of different Belgian yeasts.  Chimay yeast gives such a distinct 
 flavor profile to Belgian ales that the subtleties of recipe changes and 
 spicing gets lost in the yeast flavors.  Besides the Wyeast supplies, does 
 anyone know, home-culturer or retail, where other Belgian yeast varieties 
 can be obtained?
 
 Note to Belgain bre-lovers:  The use of candi sugar in the boil is common 
 practice in Belgain ales.  Problem here is the availability of this sugar. 
  It is a beet extract and highly refined for brewers in Belgium.  F.H. 
 Steinhart supplier in Portland, Oregon (I think) is importing a variety of 
 these sugars.  They're down to a few pounds of a darker variety at the 
 moment but have more ready to be shipped as soon as they work out the 
 freight details.  I've yet to experiment, but am jazzed about being able 
 to get the actual brewers sugar.  American refined sugars can crank up the 
 alcohol content but are a far cry from the flavor profile and color of 
 these Belgian sugars.  I'll keep you posted on the results.

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 12:11:23 EST
From: JEBURNS at ucs.indiana.edu
Subject: Address for Kegs/Humor Impaired Readers

Could some kind soul please send me the address of the woman that is
selling corny kegs via UPS.  I prematurely deleted the HBD when there 
was something I needed on it.  I usually save them for a couple of weeks
then delete.  
On another topic,  I just wanted to say that I enjoyed reading Coyote's 
pseudo-flame.  I don't know how he could have made it any clearer that 
he was *JOKING*.  I think there is room for a few humorous posts, unfortunately
some people are a little humor impaired and/or easily offended.
I was reading the latest copy of Zymurgy and there was a big article
on using sugar in brewing.  Yes sugar.  It said that homebrewers are 
the only ones that insist on using corn sugar when priming and suggests
trying cane sugar or brown sugar when bottling an ale.  It fails to 
mention how much sugar to use.  The article also describes various types
of sugars (molasses,Lactose,Invert,Candi,Turbinado etc..) that can be used
in brewing.  The only guidelines mentioned were to keep sugar adjuncts
below 20-30% depending on the gravity of the beer (higher gravity can
take a higher % of sugar).  
    My question is, how much would various priming sugars affect the flavor
of the beer?  It is usually less than a cup of sugar.  Also does anyone have
an idea on amounts of brown sugar to use for priming (more, less?)

Dave Burns
Bloomington, Indiana  a.k.a. Hoosierville
jeburns at ucs.indiana.edu

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 12:14:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Robert H. Reed" <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: Tokyo Info Request


I have a brewing friend w/o Net access who is relocating to Tokyo
and is looking for some brewing contacts in Japan and any
other useful info such as homebrew shops in the city. TIA

private responses are ok at rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com

Rob Reed

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From: ulick at ulix.cheg.nd.edu

	id m0pr9We-0006QJC; Wed, 13 Apr 94 13:19 EST
Message-Id: <m0pr9We-0006QJC at ulix>
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 13:19 EST
From: ulick at ulix.cheg.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Subject: A question for the oracle, and vorlauf

Responding to my post about the Easymasher and all-graining the
oracle responded that all one needs to all grain is an Easymasher.
However, not all the answers are apparent to me, and I am impaired
by needing at least 2 large vessel - a mashtun/boiler/hot liqour tank(?)
and a lautertun/mashtun.  My questions for the oracle of by smelly water are

1) How does the oracle store all the wort that comes off his laueter tun
   before he can remove the spent grain and start to boil?

2) How does the oracle start his boil at first running while his boiler
   is still being used as a laeuter tun?

3) How does the Oracle heat his sparge water if his big pot was used as
   the mash tun and lauter tun?  (I know the answer to this, but drilling
   a hole in the kitchen floor to run a pipeline from the kitchen to
   the brew is not an option for me).

4) How does the oracle do decoction mashes with one big pot? (I know he
   does.  He made a damned good PU clone).

- ------
I read Miller's column in the latest BT just after a difficult laeter.
'Don't ask why. Mk II' is being brewed like the big guys do - i.e. 
it'll be diluted at bottling and is being made from 7.5 lb 6-row and
4.5 lb rice.  But I recirculated for ages and the wort didn't clear.
I don't know if the problem was starch or protein.  Anyway, I
eventually started collecting and boiled the hell out of the batch,
added rehydrated carageenan (it looked like seaweed, i.e. unprocessed.
I put it in cold water for ~1 hour prior to use) at 15 minutes and
got the most incredible break.  Most is still in the fermenter
churning around like egg drop soup.  I think I'll rack tonight prior
to bottling 2 batches with its kraeusen.  I wonder if a longer
vorlauf would have removed more protein? Hmm.

By the way, the Easymasher (TM) again failed miserably for filtering
my chilled wort - it may have been because of all the break, but
I think that advirtising the product as a hop filter is ah, ...
It has worked for exactly one out of the 10 or so batches I've tried it
for, and even that one I had to leave draining overnight.
__________________________________________________________________________
 'Heineken!?! ... F#$% that s at &* ...  | Ulick Stafford, Dept of Chem. Eng.  
    Pabst Blue Ribbon!'               | Notre Dame IN 46556
                                      |    ulick at darwin.cc.nd.edu   


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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 14:51:48 EST
From: Mike_Christy_at_mozartpo at ccmailpc.ctron.com
Subject: Plastic Water Bottles


In response to the recent inquiries about 5 gal plastic water jugs, I believe 
that they are actually very porous to the point that oxygen can be transferred
If you check the bottom of one it is stamped "TO BE USED WITH WATER ONLY". Maybe
its just a gimmick by the spring water companies to get their bottles back... 

I would think that after several cleanings scratches would begin to appear and
then you'd never be sure that it is thoroughly sanitized. 

Anyway, i reserve mine for cleaning the fish tank... any other thoughts? - mc


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1398, 04/14/94