FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Those damn boomerangs (chris campanelli)
  cheesy beer solution (Chuck Wettergreen)
  "Frankenbrau Cap" (tm) (Ronald B. Moucka)
  all-grain/liquid yeast questions (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
  Chemistry/Spices (Jeremy Warren)
  CZECH BEERS (LLDSC)
  Re: spices (Eric A. Johnson)
  RE: A/B vs. SA ("McGaughey, Nial")
  Information request on food grade pumps (Timothy F. Corbett)
  CTSP info (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Silver solder, yet again (Joel Birkeland)
  Sugar & Acid contents of fruits (Jim Grady)
  Lead Again! (npyle)
  Caution: bottle washer in use. (Kent Bryan Porter)
  Re: Spices/light protection/newbies go gonzo ("Mark B. Alston")
  Searching for Microbreweries (MIKE ZEOLI)
  Wort Chiller conservation? Why not save it! (Mark Evans)
  There's (going to be) a hole in my bucket. (Allen Glass)
  Liberty Ale Recipes ("Robucci, Adam F.")
  Keg fittings (CCAC-LAD) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
  Sanitizing filters/etc (Jim Busch)
  Beer or bread? ("Thomas Kavanagh, Curator")
  Storing Specialty Grains ("Little, David")
  Oatmeal Stout (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  BlackberryBrew/Large vessels (RON)
  priming sugars ... (Chris Lyons)
  Cereal mashing (Alan_Marshall)
  Harpoon IPA. (braddw)
  Re: CTSP vs Clorine & TSP (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Harpoon IPA. (braddw)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 4 May 94 08:52 CDT
From: akcs.chrisc at vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli)
Subject: Those damn boomerangs

Ok, lemme see if I've got this straight.
 
For years homebrewers have been slamming AB, Miller & Coors
products.  AB comes out with an ad which takes a poke at
homebrewers and the homebrewers are screaming bloody murder.  
 
Pick one of the following to best describe this situation:
 
     1. It goes around, it comes around.
     2. You can dish it out but you can't take it.
     3. Hypocrasy and homebrewing are under H in the dictionary.
     4. Get a life.  Who cares.  It's an advertisement!
 
While I rarely drink the mass-produced products, I have an immense
respect for what they do and how they do it.  They consistently
make a clean product, which is more than can be said for some
micros and brewpubs.
 
It should also be noted that most of the technical data that
becomes available to homebrewers originates from research funded by
the deep pockets of . . . guess who?
 
 
chris campanelli

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Date: Wed,  4 May 94 08:21:00 -0600
From: chuck.wettergreen at aquila.com (Chuck Wettergreen)
Subject: cheesy beer solution


The enigma of the cheesy beer has been solved. What I took for my 
own brand of cottage cheese is actually coagulated protein. A great 
number of folks wrote to say that they had experienced the same 
effects when using Wyeast 1056. Apparently my version of curds and 
whey was rather unspectacular compared to the descriptions supplied 
by some of the other cheese makers: brain-like said one, 2-3" thick 
said another.

I believe that this particular batch of cheddar may have been 
exacerbated by the first-time use (in this particular style) 
of the current JS flame bait, Irish moss, aided by a less than 
vigorous boil.

The best reply came from Jonathan Klay who said, "... a good yeast, 
just some disgusting habits."

Many thanks to all who replied.

Chuck
Chuck.Wettergreen at Aquila.com


 * RM 1.3 00946 *  Sometimes I wake up grouchy, sometimes I let her sleep.

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Date: Wed, 4 May 94 9:54:45 MDT
From: rmoucka at lobo.rmh.pr1.k12.co.us (Ronald B. Moucka)
Subject: "Frankenbrau Cap" (tm)

Brew Buddies--

Many thanks to Frank Longmore for sharing his "Frankenbrau Cap" (tm) with the 
HBD.  As a user of the commercially available Carbonator, which works great, I 
was most anxious to try out the Frankenbrau Cap.  Reason?  It's about one 
fourth the cost, and that's with stainless steel fittings.

In case you're wondering, the Frankenbrau Cap is Frank's version of a PET 
bottle pressure adapter.  I've managed to down enough Pepsi in 16oz bottles to 
have a few empties around and plan on pressurizing a few homebrews in them.  I 
see it as the perfect solution for the bicycle picnics (no sediment, no broken 
glass, and no need for glasses).  My question is how long should I keep 
homebrew in these bottles?  Obviously, if beer held up well in these bottles, 
the big boys would have done this long ago.  Will my brew take on a plastic 
taste?  Anything toxic?  I've never had any homebrew in a PET bottle for more 
than a week or so.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.  Private e-mail okay.

TIA

Ron Moucka

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Date: Wed, 4 May 1994 11:15 EDT
From: CSS2 at OAS.PSU.EDU (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
Subject: all-grain/liquid yeast questions

Thanks to all of you for your input on my Rocky Racoon-sulfur smell
question...I will let it bottle-age for at least a month (maybe 2 or 3 if I
can be patient enough) and let you know how it turns out.
After 7 successful batches of extract beer, I am considering trying an
all-grainer, but I have a couple of questions...
I don't have a mash-tun, lauter tun or wort chiller, but I do have a plan...
I would like to mill up the grain and put it into a nylon sparge bag, steep in
water for the appropriate times at the appropriate temps until the starches
are converted, then proceed with adding hops, boiling the wort, etc.
Why can't you sparge your boiled wort into 2-3 gallons of cold water like you
do for an extract brew (yes, I realize that I'll have to use a lot of malt and
other grains if I'm going to water the wort down at the end)???
I also have a chest freezer, and I could set the brewpot down inside of it (on
top of a cardboard box to avoid damaging the freezer) and cool it down in a
hurry that way.  Any comments, caveats, etc. from you all-grain folks?  I
think the sparge bag is a reasonable way to avoid a mash-tun, etc. - a prof.
here at Penn State does the same thing in a brewing segment of a food prep.
course that he teaches...

I'm also considering trying liquid yeast; I've had very good luck with
rehydrated dry yeast (a bunch of different kinds), but I'm in an experimental
sort of mood. I generally make ales, and with summer approaching, I'm not sure
that even my basement is cool enough for a lager...
What yeasts have people found to be the best?  Which ones should I avoid (I've
heard a lot of discussion about Wyeast #1056 lately)??  Anyone have a
particular favorite for certain beer styles?
Any and all advice is welcome; private email encouraged....Thanks

Curt Speaker
css2 at oas.psu.edu

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Date: Wed, 4 May 1994 12:36:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: jwarren at mcs.capital.edu (Jeremy Warren)
Subject: Chemistry/Spices

	As to your problem with pH, I can't see any problem with the pH, as long
as the pH meter indicates a pH of around 6.8-7.4 in normal tap water, and
doesn't fluctuate all over the place.  As to the strange happenings with the 
brewing water, it could be that when you boiled it, you caused some deposition/
precipitation of carbonates in the water.  Carbonates in the water tend to 
acidify it (In the manner of CO2), and this could explain your pH problem,
If your tap water tends to be a little basic.  What else, if any was present in
the water when you boiled it?  Odd things present in the water can definitely
skew the pH.

Jeremy Warren


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Date: Wednesday,  4 May 94 14:00:28 CST
From: LLDSC at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu
Subject: CZECH BEERS



Allow me to gloat...

I'm leaving next week for the Czech Republic. I'm flying into Frankfurt
and then taking the train the heck out of there. I'll be stopping in
Plsen, Ceske Budejovice, and Prague (just to name a few).

Anybody know of any good pubs, places to stop, etc. (other than the
breweries, of course). Any other tips would be helpful, also.

E-mail me private if you don't think anyone wants to read this.
I'll be gone for 3 weeks. PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRTY!!!!
                            LLDSC at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu

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Date: Wed, 4 May 94 15:33:21 -0400
From: eajohns at crsgi1.erenj.com (Eric A. Johnson)
Subject: Re: spices


>        One article had a sidebar which listed all sorts of spices 
>     that have been (commonly?) used in beer, such as allspice, 
>     pepper, bay leaves, coriander, etc. etc. but no details.
>        What quantities are we talking here? A dash? An ounce? A 

I have used spices in a couple beers.  I made a Belgian White beer in
which I added about an ounce of freshly crushed coriander when racking
to secondary.  I would reduce the amount a bit if also adding orange
peel.

I made a spiced holiday ale in which I added the zest of 2 oranges,
1.25 oz. grated ginger, 1 tablespoon ground cinnamon and 1 tablespoon
ground nutmeg.  All spices were added for the full boil.  
Both beers turned out very well, and nicely spiced.

Eric
============================
Eric A. Johnson
Exxon Research & Engineering
eajohns at erenj.com


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Date: Wed, 04 May 94 12:51:00 PDT
From: "McGaughey, Nial" <nmcgaugh at hq.walldata.com>
Subject: RE: A/B vs. SA


My $.02 on the Sam Adams is that some of the Evil Seed Koch is that to a 
knowledgeable (sp) homebrewer, some of Sam(AT)Adams's(N)'s proclamations at 
to the product content and mfg process are simply not true. That is lying. 
Plus the whole air of a downhome loveable brewing guy vs his business 
tactics lead an informed person to think twice about J. Koch's claims.

 If Annheiser Busch is heavily discounting the efforts of homebrewers, I 
think I'ts great... Why you ask? Well we know better, right? _aaand_ as long 
as the government thinks we are a bunch of podunk goop heads making barely 
palatable swill, then the longer we will be able to go on making our own 
Nectar 'o' the Gods (tm), free of (stupid) taxation, and government 
meddling.

#soapbox off

Nial McGaughey
Wall Data Incorporated

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Date: Wed, 04 May 1994 15:53:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: tcorbett at isac.isac.wright.edu (Timothy F. Corbett)
Subject: Information request on food grade pumps


I am sure that at least a few of you here use pumps ( food grade
if there is even such a thing ) to move hot wort to a CF chiller

Where do you get one? How much? are they worth the money?  I 
dont like to wait for gravity to do its thing, I would much
rather hurry up and wait for the ferment,  haha

so how about some input from the best knowledge source
ever to hit the circles of home brewing, THE HBD....

TIA
Tim Corbett < tcorbett at isac.isac.wright.edu >

I will sum up the responces on the HBD if there is enough demand
for it, or I will relay the info directly if requested.


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Date: Wed, 4 May 94 13:11:09 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: CTSP info

I have just finished talking to a technical representative of the
Albright & Wilson company who makes CTSP.  He used to work in the
plant which made the CTSP and so has firsthand knowledge of what it is
and how it is made.  This is the information I recevied.

Chlorinated Trisodium Phosphate is made by making a 12 mole solution
of TSP and adding 5% sodium hypochlorite (bleach) crystals.  As the
mixture crystallizes, the sodium hypochlorite is bound by the water of
hydration.  

You cannot make CTSP by just adding bleach to TSP.


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Date: Wed, 4 May 94 09:24:02 MST
From: birkelan at adtaz.sps.mot.com (Joel Birkeland)
Subject: Silver solder, yet again

The topic of using solder in making brewing equipment comes up
from time to time.  Often, someone will point out that just because
solder may be labeled "Lead-Free" does NOT mean that it is non-toxic.
A metallurgist has told me that it is not unheard of to find cadmium
in lead-free solder, which is quite toxic.

Maybe it is because I already have a feeble mind, but, while I remember
the warning that toxic, lead-free solder exists, I never seem to remember
anyone telling me which type (i.e. manufacturer name and part number) is
safe.

Armed with this information, or lack thereof, I turned to my trusty
Grainger catalog (#385), and on page 1270, found a list of lead-free
solders made by Kester.  There seem to be three types of lead-free
solder which are recommended for use in plumbing and potable water
applications.  

One type contains 95% tin and 5% antimony (Kester # 14-7080-0125)
Antimony?!  No way.  Sounds too much like alimony.  I'm not going
to use this stuff.

Another type contains 80% tin, 5% silver, 5% bismuth, and 10% other
(Kester model # 82631)  I don't like this either.  The "10% other" is
what bothers me.

The third type is called "Lead-free Cadmium-free Silver Solder", it
contains 98% tin and 2% silver (Kester model # 14-7016-0125).  As I
read further, I see that it is recommended for kitchen utensils.  I think
this stuff must be OK.  It also costs significantly more than the other
types.

(I wonder if maybe something to keep in mind is that the joints in our
plumbing will not be exposed to low pH solutions, so that just because
it is safe for H20 doesn't mean it is safe for Beer.)

Anyway, even though it seemed that the 98% tin, 2% silver was the right stuff,
I called up Kester and talked to the safety guy.  He told me that they
quit using cadmium in their solder a long time ago, so not to worry
about that.  Beyond that, he didn't really seem to know which one to
use.  He did point out, however, that it is very important to wash off all of
the flux after soldering, since this may also have components that are
toxic.

So I went to Grainger and bought the 98% tin, 2% silver stuff for $20/lb. 
I went home and used it with the Oatey lead-free flux from Home Depot on some
copper beer-making equipment.  I worked hard to rinse off the remaining flux.  
It looks nice and I hope it doesn't kill me.


DISCLAIMER:  I AM NOT A SAFETY EXPERT, A SOLDER EXPERT, OR EVEN A VERY
GOOD SOLDERER.  I DO NOT MAKE ANY CLAIMS AS TO THE ACCURACY OF ANY OF THE
ABOVE INFORMATION.

Joel Birkeland
Motorola SPS

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Date: Wed, 4 May 94 16:19:18 EDT
From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: Sugar & Acid contents of fruits

Way back in HBD 1403 (April 20th), Rich Webb was kind enough to post a
table of sugar and acid content of various fruits from "The Curious
Cook."  I would like to mention that these should be taken as a
guideline as the amounts will vary with the growing season and the
variety.

In the fall of 1992, I bought 5 gal of freshly pressed apple cider from
a local farm.  No preservatives.  I wanted to make a spiced apple wine
since the Christmas Ale came out so well the year before.  I added honey
& sugar to bring the S.G. up and I added spices to the primary.  I did
not add any acid even though the recipe for straight apple wine called
for it.  I added Wyeast champagne yeast that I had started previously (1
qt or so).  After several days, fermentation had not started. Nothing.
I finally broke down and bought an acid test kit. I titrated the acidity
and stopped titrating when I reached the "this wine is beyond hope"
point.  I took it to the homebrew supply shop to see if they got the
same results.  They did.  You can add calcium carbonate to reduce the
acidity but only to a point and this was well beyond that.  The only
solution was to dilute it, add suger to get the SG back up and probably
add something to keep the yeast healthy.  By this time I was fed up,
dumped it, and made a batch of beer!

My point in all this, is if you are making a fruit wine or are counting
on a certain acidity/sweetness from your fruit juice, I would strongly
recommend a hydrometer and an acid test kit.  The test kit usually
consists of phenolphthalien, 0.1N NaOH, stuff to titrate with, and
instructions that explain what the results mean for fermenting things
(i.e. acceptable ranges).
- --
Jim Grady             
grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com

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Date: Wed, 4 May 94 11:35:12 MDT
From: npyle at n33.ecae.stortek.com
Subject: Lead Again!

John Palmer wrote in Tuesday's HBD:

>Brass is an alloy of Copper and Zinc with some lead thrown in for
>machinability. The lead percentage varies, but for the common brass alloys
>found in hardware stores, it is 7% or less.  Lead is entirely soluble in
>Copper.  Therefore it does not have a high propensity for leaching out of
>brass.  Jack Scmidling posted yesterday about the lab results on beer made
>with his Easy Masher (tm) system which is indeed a worst case scenario for
>wort exposure to brass, because his practice is to let the hot wort remain in
>contact with the brass fittings for several hours before chilling and then he
>ferments the beer in the same vessel.  Most users of the EM would be
>boiling, chilling and transferring the wort to another fermentation vessel, so
>their beer would not be in contact with the brass for more than a few hours
>at most.  Be that as it may, the Lab results showed that the Tap Water was 6
>PPB, and the beer was less than 10 PPB.  The beer may have been equal to 6,
>but resolution prevented determining this.  The EPA limit is 15 PPB.  While
>only one data point, it does support my original thought that brass in the
>wort should not be a problem.

It has occurred to me that Jack's test could've been flawed.  Let's assume
that Jack is using the same EM that he has used for several batches of beer.
I think this is a reasonable assumption, but maybe Jack can verify it for me.
Now, assume that any lead leaching out of the brass is lead that was already
on or near the surface of the material.  All I'm saying is that I don't think
lead will keep migrating from the inside of the material after lead has left
the surface.  I conclude that any lead leaching from the brass did so long
ago when Jack's EM was brand new, and that he wouldn't (and didn't) detect
any extra lead in a recently brewed beer at this point in time.  I came to
this conclusion with my own 4" brass nipple, which is attached to my kettle.
I figure the lead is already in my body, and Jack's too, and has dun nO
harmmmm et aaallll...

I discussed this with John; here's his email reply to me:

>Make me a co-author so to speak, I sent that on Monday, but found something
>yesterday that gave me the same thought. From the ASM Metals Handbook, 9th Ed,
>Surface Cleaning, Finishing and Coating; page 233 -
> Leaded Alloys
>Unlike other elements added to brass or bronze, lead does not
>combine with copper to form an alloy. Instead, it remains in
>the metal as globules. The lead exposed during machining or
>cutting acts as a lubricant by flowing or smearing across the
>surface. Electroless nickel does not deposit on lead.* Unless
>lead smears are removed, the applied coating is porous with poor
>adhesion. Lead remaining on the surface of parts can also
>contaminate electroless nickel solutions, causing a rapid decline
>in plating rate and deposit quality.
>Surface lead is best removed by immersing parts for 30 seconds
> - 2 minutes in a 10 to 30% solution of fluoboric acid at room
>temperature. Sulfamic acid and dilute nitric acid have also been
>reported to be effective solutions fo removing lead. The removal
>of lead must occur before deoxidizing or bright dipping in the
>pre-treatment cycle, and it is not a substitute for these steps.
>
>* As Jack is planning on having his brass parts nickel plated by this process,
>I should point out that he is having it done by a commercial plating house,
>and this situation would be covered in the process specification for these
>brass alloys.
>We should also point out that the total amount of lead that homebrewers would
>be encountering from their one or two brass parts is very small.

My conclusion is that Jack should repeat his experiment with a brand new EM,
if this was not the case in the first test.  I am not losing any sleep over
this, BTW, but it is interesting.

Norm  =  npyle at n33.stortek.com

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Date: Wed, 4 May 1994 11:16:25 -0700
From: Kent Bryan Porter <kporter at well.sf.ca.us>
Subject: Caution: bottle washer in use.


Last night (5/3) I had a sobering experience with my Jet (tm) bottle washer.
(J-shaped brass tube with push-down on/off valve; attaches to faucet.)
For the first time in 2 years of monthly use, the valve did not shut off
when I removed a bottle. The very hot H2O that wasn't deflected by my face
hit the ceiling, cupboards, walls and cats. 

Minutes later I pulled a 22 oz Old Australia Stout bottle out of the 
chlorine solution and onto the sprayer. The hot water hit the cold
bottle, I heard a 'tink' and another blast came through the broken bottom
end of the bottle to give me, the ceiling, cupboards and walls a second
rinse. (The cats had wisely occupied themselves elsewhere.)

I am now careful to 
     A) not take the bottle completely off the sprayer until 
        the water has shut off, and
     B) not use COLD water to soak bottles in prior to hot 
        water rinsing. I will use room temp or slightly warmer.
		
I hope my experience is of benefit to others. BTW the bottles that didn't 
break were Grolsch 16oz swing-tops.

kent porter
Relax (but be careful!), have a HB.

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Date: Wed, 4 May 94 12:00:41 MDT
From: "Mark B. Alston" <c-amb at math.utah.edu>
Subject: Re: Spices/light protection/newbies go gonzo

[snip]

   In 20/20 hindsight, though, it seems like beginners ought to start off
   with basic stuff and get down the technique before complicating things.

I basically agree with you except for the reason to start off basic.
I feel that the technique is just as easy to get with simple vs
complicated brews.  However, and this is the main reason to start slow
(I wish that I had followed this advice :), you don't have any idea
where all the flavors come from.  Moreover, for example, with a heavy
chocolate stout how do you know what caused any of those flavors which
escape the chocolates wrath.  I have come to the conclusion that
beginning brewers should start with a basic paleish beer for there
first attempt, using a kit or simply malt extract, and then supplement
it with various specialty grains to explore all the options.  This way
you know *exactly* what adding the roasted barley does, or the crystal
malt, or the ...  

Again, I wish that I had followed this advice.  My first three beers
were dark stouts, my favorite style, and I never had any idea what
exactly the chocolate, or black patent, or roasted barley did on their
own.  The results were o.k. but I wasn't learning anything except the
technique.  

On a related note, this is basically how my beginners-guide on sierra
steps you through it.  I am thinking about updating it ever so
slightly, with more info on "where to go from here..."  Anyhow, it is
in postscript and TeX formats on sierra.stanford.edu.  The poscript
file is there in both compressed and gzipped format.  Check it out and
let me know what you think I should add for the update.

**No, there is not an ascii version. If you print the postscript one
you will know why.**

P.S. fellow Zion brewers will recognize this as a modified version of
Art's guide.  I think that the improvements from his version are
significant.

Mark Alston
c-amb at math.utah.edu

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Date: Wed, 04 May 1994 19:25:22 -0500 (EST)
From: MIKE ZEOLI <ZEOL4195 at splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: Searching for Microbreweries

Date sent:  4-MAY-1994 19:18:51 
Hello!  I am a student at SUNY Plattsburgh, which is approximately fifteen 
miles south of the Canadian border in New York State.  I have heard from 
several friends of mine that there are some excellent microbreweries just 
over the border, near Montreal.  I personally have never sampled anything 
from a microbrewery before and was wondering what constitutes an 
"excellent" micro.  I would appreciate any advice that could be given on 
this matter.
                                               Sincerely
                                               M. Zeoli

MIKE ZEOLI


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Date: Wed, 4 May 1994 18:27:31 -600 (CDT)
From: Mark Evans <evanms at lcac1.loras.edu>
Subject: Wort Chiller conservation? Why not save it!


Here's an interesting note on the "wort chiller conservation thread."  I
left my wife in charge of running the wort chiller while I took the kids
to the pool (indoors, you goofballs) last Sunday afternoon.  It was her
favorite brew--stout--so she didn't mind getting in on the process. 
Anyway, she felt guilty letting all of that water run off, so she started
filling some gallon plastic milk jugs that I'd saved for camping.  She
saved about six gallons--the water was running pretty slowly--and got the
wort down to about 85-90F after maybe 25 minutes.  I was surprised that,
when carefully regulated, only that much water ran off.  We use the water
on house plants, some outdoor seedlings, some washing, and the dog likes
to stick her tongue in the openings for an afternoon drink.  I suppose I
could save these jugs of water for later batches of brew. Course after all
the rain of last summer I figure that the aquifer is pretty well stoked
up.  

Brewfully yours, Mark Evans in Dubuque, Iowa

where the hop plants are growing like jack's bean stalk!  

<evanms at lcac1.loras.edu>
Dubuque, Iowa





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Date: Wed, 4 May 1994 20:02:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Allen Glass <aglass at andy.bgsu.edu>
Subject: There's (going to be) a hole in my bucket.

I'm fairly newbie with a question about deliberately mutilating my brewing
equipment.

Of all the chores involved in homebrewing, the only one I really don't
like is siphoning (I had a tragic accident involving a six-foot
column of water when I was a child).  I'm operating at present with a
basic two-plastic pails fermenting-bottling system, and after a wild and
dangerous experiment using my bottling bucket (with plastic spigot) as my
fermenter, I'm planning on drilling a hole in the side of my regular
fermenter and putting a spigot in, thus eliminating the siphoning.

Given the relatively high level of innocuous cantankerousness (feed that
through your spell-checker) on the HBD, I figured I could probably give
myself hours of amusement by asking the simple question:

	Anyone know why I shouldn't?

I await your responses with beery breath (much better than bait, take my
word for it).

allen
aglass at andy.bgsu.edu

BTW, being new to the digest, I'd appreciate any tips I can get on reading
the digest more easily (I'm using Pine on a BSD Unix Vax).  TIA.



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Date: Thu, 05 May 94 08:04:00 PDT
From: "Robucci, Adam F." <robuccad at dsoeng.sch.ge.com>
Subject: Liberty Ale Recipes


Thanks to everyone for sending along their recipes. I'll post the results of 
my brew when I get a chance to brew it. I just picked up a second 
refrigerator and I have a Sam Adams like lager going.

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Date:     Thu, 5 May 94 8:45:31 EDT
From: William Boyle (CCAC-LAD) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  Keg fittings

I have a few pin lock kegs, but I need ball lock fittings. My
question is if I remove the poppet assembly from my pin lock
and buy new ball lock poppet assemblys will the threads match?
The problem is Williams Brewing sells a keg pump that fits on 
the ball lock kegs. I would like to use one of these things
but it will not fit my keg.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.


					Bill Boyle


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Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 09:52:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Sanitizing filters/etc

  > Julio C Rojas asked:
  >  ...help me quantify the size of the domestic (U.S.) homebrew market...
  
  Take the AHA membership numbers and multiply by 5.  That should get you
  in the *broad* ballpark.  What it wont do is figure in the rapid growth 
  rate that is happening every year, just check out the number of entries in
  certain judging events.
  
  
  Mark writes:
 >Subject: CTSP vs Clorine & TSP and other ramblings
  > 
  > First my question:
  > 
  > 	I know that alternatives exist such as Idophor but I have just
  > purchased a 0.5 Micron filter system and am trying to figure out the
  > best way to sanitize it.  (Please no anti-filter comments, I have
  > never used one myself and don't need to hear the advice of others who
  > have also not used one.  I belive that one should try everything
  > before writing it off.)  
  
  I use Bbrite.  Its the only place in my brewery that I use this stuff. 
  I leave it in B-brite too.  I wont say Im anti-filter, but I will say
  that .5 micron is a terrible choice, and likely will reduce your foam
  stand in the finshed beer.  If micros filter to 5 microns, thats good
  enough for me.  Thankfully, I have been able to age my beers longer 
  these days, so I rarely filter due to the pain involved.  For young 
  beers its a great way to go... Remember, yeasts are pretty large, and 
  proteins can be dealt with in other ways.
  
  Kevin writes:
  > Subject: American Micro Brews
  > 
  > I've travelled to a large number of brewpubs, but recently had a chance 
  > to sample beers on tap at an English style pub.  The beers I had were 
  > Fuller's ESB, Courage, and Guinness.  These are the very types of beers 
  > that inspired me to brew in the first place.  They were fresh, but did 
  > not have the oomph or sparkle I remember and now associate with micro- 
  > brews.
  
  You must have been in the US!  Fullers ESB is certainly one of the great
 experiences in London.  The beer changes drastically when served on cask.
  
  One of my all time favorites is the lighter ale made by Sierra, the
  Draught pale.  Sometimes lighter is much better.
  
  Jeff writes:
  > 
  > Bear in mind that a barleywine shouldn't finish bone-dry, but also
  > shouldn't end up at 1035!  You might also bear in mind that one can
  > produce a mighty fine barleywine without starting out at 1.100.  You are
  > more likely to get positive results (and avoid sickly sweet, unfinished
  > beer) if you start at around 1.090.
  
  Amen to all of that! 
  
  Best,
  
  Jim Busch
  
> 
> 


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Date: Thu, 5 May 94 08:50:20 EST
From: "Thomas Kavanagh, Curator" <TKAVANAG at ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Beer or bread?

Which came First: Beer or Bread
     The recent experiments in brewing Babylonian beer (Soloman
Katz and Fritz Maytag, Brewing an Ancient Beer, _Archaeology_
July 1991) have rekindled several threads in the popular media
about the role of beer in the origins of agriculture, often with
reference to a brief discussion in the 1953 _American
Anthropologist_. As an anthropologist, often teaching Intro
Anthro, and as a home brewer, I have a dual interest in the
question. What I want to do here is present a brief summary of
that original 1953 discussion and its implications as presented
in the Katz/Maytag popular article and in Maytag's advertisements
for _Ninkasi Beer_. 
     In October of 1952, Robert Braidwood (U Chicago), published
a brief article in _Scientific American_ in which he discussed
the "food producing" revolution of the Neolithic period,
beginning about 10,000 years ago. He _did not_ directly suggest a
causal relationship between bread making and the domestication of
grains. In a personal letter, Jonathan D. Sauer (Botany, U Wisc.)
responded to Braidwood, asking "whether the earliest utilization
of domesticated cereals may have been for beer rather than
bread." Braidwood apparently liked the suggestion, and took the
opportunity to make use of the symposium-by-mail format of the
_Am. Anth._ to pose this question to his colleagues: 
     "Could the discovery that a mash of fermented grain yielded
     a palatable and nutritious beverage have acted as a greater
     stimulant toward the experimental selection and breeding of
     the cereals than the discovery of flour and bread making?
     ... Was the subsequent impetus to this domestication bread
     or beer?"
     Braidwood began with a brief discussion of the Neolithic
technology associated with grains, sickles, grinding stones,
pottery, noting that none of the technological artifacts
necessarily implied either beer or bread. But Braidwood 
noted that when recovered archaeologically, cereal grains were
almost invariably charred. Thus he asked, "whether these charred
kernels may have been overfired accidentally in the parching
process by which the malt was prepared, although I have seen
grain parched for other purposes."  Sauer added that since the
heads of wild cereal grains shatter when mature, scattering the
seed, the collection of wild grain "would seem to me a game
scarcely worth the candle except for a more rewarding stake than
mere food." 
     But none of the seven scholars who responded accepted
Braidwood's suggestion at face value. Hans Halbaek, curator of
prehistorical agriculture at the Danish National Museum, rejected
the suggestion that charred grain reflected a brewing/malting
operation, noting that in malting only enough heat is applied to
kill the germ, not enough to carbonizing the grain. Thus any such
carbonized grains must resulted from some other operation. 
Furthermore, all of the carbonized grain obtained from the early
sites was ungerminated: it was not malt. 
     Paul Mangelsdorf of Harvard noted that in the various
strains of wild wheat and barley, the glume (husks and chaff)
adhere to the grain. Thus, without additional processing, the
early grains might have been more suited to beer than to bread.
However, he also noted that other than the cereals, no other
carbohydrate food source was available to the ancient Near-
Easterners. But since beer would not serve as the major source of
carbohydrates, he argued that "man cannot live on beer alone, and
not too satisfactorily on beer and meat."  
     Mangelsdorf then expanded the discussion, noting two other
grain food products besides beer and bread: gruel and unleavened
bread. As had Halbaek, Mangelsdorf noted that parching was not
part of the malting process, but it would have been an effective
way of removing the glume. The grain could then be soaked in
water to make gruel for the toothless young and old, which might
spontaneously ferment. At the same time, he noted that all too
often, when we in the West think of bread, we think of yeast-
based leavened loaves. But technologically, unleavened bread and
gruel is a precursor to both leavened bread and to beer; indeed
in at least one method of brewing, the partial baking of yeast
bread is prior to the steeping of the loaves and fermenting into
beer. 
     Similarly, A. Leo Oppenheim (philologist, U Chicago)--who
had already published a fifth or sixth century BC copy of an
earlier text in his booklet "On Beer and Brewing Techniques in
Ancient Mesopotamia", and in whose honor the Ninkasi Hymn was
translated and published)--noted several other ancient food
products:
     "the preparation of vegetable food stuffs (not only
     cereals), without the application of fire, developed into
     the manufacture of pulpy dishes (gruel)--made palatable by
     seasoning or by sour fermentation--and of 'preserves' (such
     as malted barley, etc). These techniques led them to the
     making of barley-cakes as well as to the brewing of several
     types of beer-like beverages. 
     In summarizing the discussion, Braidwood made two comments.
The first was that "if the earliest Near Eastern beer was brewed
from germinated grain malt as Mangelsdorf thinks probable," then
the ungerminated grain from Jarmo offers "no evidence of the
process." The second was that the earlist uses of grain was
probably as gruel not bread. 
 
Comment
     All in all, the "symposium" was inconclusive. At best, it
pointed out that stating the question "beer or bread" as prime
mover in domestication was far too simplistic to be answered;
perhaps it is now better to say gruel _and_ beer _and_
(unleavened) bread were important product points in the process
of the domestication of grain. 
     This leads to another point: the Katz/Maytag discussion of
the Beer/Bread symposium is generally irrelevant to their
otherwise excellent discussion of the process of brewing the
Babylonian beer. That is, their recipe refers only to brewing
techniques and products ca. 1800 BC, it says nothing about the
products and processes 8000 years before that, nor of the
causes and processes of domestication of grains. Although they
give the disclaimer that their efforts are merely a "time
platform" with which to consider earlier techniques, on the
bottled product, the Anchor Brewery's ad man's hyperbole gets in
the way of history: the label calls Ninkasi an "attempt to
emulate man's first beer brewed 5000+ years ago." This, of
course, is doubly incorrect, it is not only not the "first beer,"
the Babylonian recipe is only 3800 (not 5000) years old.
 
Other references on early brewing:
A. L. Oppenehim, On Beer and Brewing Techniques in Ancient
Mesopotamia. 
H. P. Lutz, Viniculture and Brewing in the Ancient Orient.
A. Lucas, Ancient Egyptian Materials and Industries. 
E. Huber, Bier und Bierbereitung bei den Volkern der Urzeir I,
Babylonien und Aegypten.

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Date: Wed, 04 May 94 13:31:00 PDT
From: "Little, David" <davidl at div317.t185.saic.com>
Subject: Storing Specialty Grains


I'm just starting to play with extract recipes that include specialty 
grains. What's the best way to store these grains between batches? Should 
they be stored in the freezer or is an airtight plastic tub (ala Tupperware) 
better?

David Little
Internet: david.little-1 at cpmx.saic.com
CIS:      72133,1056

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Date: Thu, 5 May 94 10:19:39 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Oatmeal Stout

I alluded to this recipe a couple of weeks ago in response to a
request.  But now that the beer has passed it's "exam" (a party this
weekend) with flying colors, it's time to post the recipe.

My wife really liked Sam Adams Cream Stout when we had some last
summer.  I thought I'd try to make a beer with that nice creamy,
roasty flavor, but lower gravity, for her graduation party last
weekend.

Amy's Stout (#30)
    for 5 gallons

5.5 lb Hugh Baird Pale Ale malt
0.5 lb Carapils malt (Hugh Baird)
0.5 lb Hugh Baird 50L crystal
1.0 lb flaked oats (McCann's Irish Quick Oats)
0.7 lb roasted barley

30g BC Kent Goldings flowers (5%) (60 min)
15g ditto (15 min)
15g ditto (5 min)

Step mash all grains together  at 61C for 30 min (3 gal strike), 65C for
30 min. (infuse 2qts boiling water).  Sparged 5.8 gallons at 1.038.

Yield: 4.7 gallons  at  1.046 (I did add some top-up water during the
boil).

Fermented 1 week in glass at 19-22C with a pint starter of YeastLab
Irish Ale.  FG 1.012.

Bottled with 1/3c corn sugar into 2 5l mini-kegs and 18 bottles.

Tasting notes (after 1 week in bottle/keg): Yum! Initial roasty-malty
aroma with a hint of hop flower-spice.  Fills your mouth, smooth,
silky and medium-full body. Sweet but not too much, balanced with hops
but towards the sweet side.  Really right-on with what I was aiming
for.  Too bad I didn't make this in time for the Nationals.

Amy loves it, the party guests liked it, once they got past the
intimidating (to a beer neophyte) blackness.

If you really love the roasted coffee flavor of roasted barley, the
beer could easily take more of it, or maybe 1/4lb chocolate malt to
"sharpen up" the flavor a bit.  But it's darn good as it is, and
tastes a lot "bigger" than you might expect from its OG.

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Date: Thu, 05 May 1994 10:32 EST
From: RON.admin at admin.creol.ucf.edu (RON)
Subject: BlackberryBrew/Large vessels

Wondered upon a large Blackberry patch here in Central Florida.
They are remotely located and rippening nicely.  I should have a freezer
full in the next few weeks.  I have made Blackberry Ales before from 
store bought fruit.  Both batches turned out dry.  I would like to avoid 
this by adding lactose (preparation???) or something else to avoid 
the dryness.  Thought I might try using a more atten. yeast.....
 ...any recomendations on sugars or liquid yeasts  ?????

Could someone forward the phone/address of the place in Texas that
has the styrofoam packed 7 Gal glass vessels for sale.  Are there 
any other places to get vessels (glass or stainless - no plastics 
please) greater than 5 gal????  inexpensive is the key.

Should airation be avoided/minimized during transfer from mash vessel
to lauter vessel???? For that matter during the entire mash process??
Recent and only batches of all grain have what I think is oxygen 
poisoning.  I get good hop aroma and flavor, so i think its happening
before boil??????
Long Live HBD
ron at admin.creol.ucf.edu


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Date: Thu, 5 May 94 10:37:41 EDT
From: Chris Lyons <Chris.Lyons at analog.com>
Subject: priming sugars ...

In HBD 1416 Wesman commented on the use of different priming sugars.
Just wanted to follow-up with an additional data point.  I have
tried priming with sucanut (sp?) and find that it gives an nice
flavor to the beer ... similar to that found in OP.  (Sucanut is sometimes
used as a substitute for brown sugar.)  For priming I use the same volume
of sucanut that I would have used for corn sugar and get nearly 
identical carbonation results (just a flavor difference).  I use
sucanut to carbonate my English style Pale Ales, where I consider
the added flavor acceptable.

Just my $0.02 on the topic,
Chris

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Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 10:32 EDT
From: Alan_Marshall <AK200032 at Sol.YorkU.CA>
Subject: Cereal mashing

Actually, my subject line sound like a horrific crime!

In HBD, "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>, writes:

> Subject: Mashing Breakfast Cereal
> 
> Am I out of my mind?! Well, popular opinion aside, I have been
> wondering about this. Mashing breakfast cereal that is. So far my
> candidates are Grape Nuts, Cheerios, and of course Quaker Oatmeal.

<some of the justification omitted>

Why not?  If I can put Pale Malt or Crystal Malt in my porridge, why 
can't you brew with cereal?  Of course, JS would have to develop the 
InstaEasyMasher (tm)!

Alan

- -- Alan Marshall                "If a picture is worth a thousand
   AK200032 at SOL.YORKU.CA        words, a taste is worth a thousand
   York University              pictures." - Charles Finkel, Pike
   Toronto, Canada              Place Brewery/Merchant du Vin


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Date: Thu May  5 11:02:37 1994
From: braddw at rounder.rounder.com
Subject: Harpoon IPA.

I just tried Harpoon's IPA last night and was knocked out by the flavor!
There is a hint of oak-aging but also a sweet candy-like flavor to it.
Does anyone know where this sweet flavor comes from?  I would love to try
and duplicate this recipe. Private mail is welcome.

   
   **** ---- "There's always time for a Homebrew!" ----  ****
  C|~~| ----------------------------------------------- C|~~|
   `--' --------------braddw at rounder.com---------------  `--'




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Date: Thu, 5 May 94 08:01:05 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: CTSP vs Clorine & TSP

>>>>> "Mark" == Mark B Alston <c-amb at math.utah.edu> writes:

Mark> 	I am quite confused about the differences between using CTSP
Mark> (clorinated Tri Sodium Phosphate) and straight Clorine bleach with
Mark> TSP.  

See my posting about the difference in CTSP and TSP + bleach which
should appear in the next HBD.

Mrk>  I have read in many sources that bleach will corrode stainless
Mark> steel but that CTSP is much safer.  

Get John Palmer's treatise on why bleach is safe for SS from the HBD
archives.  Cannot be explained better than that.

Mark> Can I really use CTSP safely on my stainless kegs.

Absolutely.  Use it with the hottest water you can get, leave it for
only 20 minutes and then rinse thoroughly.  You will have no problems.
Lots of people are doing this.


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Date: Thu May  5 11:02:37 1994
From: braddw at rounder.rounder.com
Subject: Harpoon IPA.

I just tried Harpoon's IPA last night and was knocked out by the flavor!
There is a hint of oak-aging but also a sweet candy-like flavor to it.
Does anyone know where this sweet flavor comes from?  I would love to try
and duplicate this recipe. Private mail is welcome.

   
   **** ---- "There's always time for a Homebrew!" ----  ****
  C|~~| ----------------------------------------------- C|~~|
   `--' --------------braddw at rounder.com---------------  `--'




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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1417, 05/06/94