FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Infection Rings; Lovibond (Thomas Aylesworth        )
  Johnson Controllers (Don Put)
  Shipping Damage (Jack Schmidling)
   ("Steven C. Boxer")
  Good Brewing Software (Maj Don Staib )
  Keg to brewpot? ("Charles S. Jackson")
  Hops in Starter (DJM1)
  Farnsworth/Fix Seminar Info (Louis K. Bonham)
  Beginner's Technique (David Rodger)
  Real Altbier Yeast (McKee Smith) (MCKSMI)
  Thermarest, judging (Ulick Stafford)
  Need source on 3 Micron Filter (Phil Brushaber)
  Oh, what a tangled web we weave (CPU-SPP generic account)
  Homebrew Digest #1446 (Ju (Jim King)
  INBOX Message (See Below) (Mailer.MC1)
  Malt Liquor v Beer (William_L._King.Wbst311)
  thermometer error/metheglin recipe (Mark A Fryling)
  First Lager!  Questions (Robert Pyle)
  Beer's Law (Gary Meier)
  more on skunkiness... ("Dan Houg")
  Jeff's Tasty Easy Pale recipe (STROUD)
  Re: Wort O2 (Jim Busch)
  Rudeness based upon What You Drink (John DeCarlo              x7116          )
  Skunks and Clarity (npyle)
  Partial Mashing and Partial Volume Boils (Bill Hollingsworth)
  RE: Hops in starter (P Brooks)
  Trip report (Tim Anderson)
  NY Beerfest 2 (Todd Jennings)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 11 Jun 94 12:28:23 EST
From: Thomas Aylesworth <t_aylesworth at lfs.loral.com>
Subject: Infection Rings; Lovibond

Here are two questions I have been meaning to ask for a while now:

First, Jeff Frane writes:

>A couple of brewers have asked about the problem of "ring around the
>collar" in their bottles, and wondered about the lack of any off-flavor.
>The answer is that YES, this is a contamination and YES it seems to be
>otherwise benign.  

My question is, do all (or even most) infections leave the tell-tale
ring around the bottle?  Recently, I have started brewing some lighter
colored ales to give my family something to drink besides the stouts
and brown porters I prefer.  In a fairly bitter amber ale I did earlier
this year, I noticed a slight phenolic taste in the finish.  The next
batch was a less bitter golden ale, in which the taste was very 
noticeable (although my family still claims it is the best beer I have
ever made - guess I shouldn't give up the day job, huh?).  The batch
following that one was a way bitter oatmeal stout, in which no phenol
could possibly overpower the flavor of 2 oz of Bullions + 1 oz of 
Cascades!  There were no rings in any of these (or any of my other
brews).  

Anyway, in a competition, one judge commented on the amber ale that 
perhaps the phenolic taste was from dry yeast.  I have been worried that 
maybe it is a mild infection.  Any comments?

I am brewing my first liquid yeast batch tomorrow, so the question may
be answered soon, but I'd still like to hear from some of you to see
what you think.

- ----------

Question number two was inspired by Ulick's recent comments regarding
the color of his beers.  Since he seemed to be familiar with the process
used to measure beer color, I am hoping he, Martin Manning, or someone else, 
can give me more info on the scales used.  It seems that some of the popular
literature disagrees on the meaning of the color values for the Lovibond
scale, or else I am missing something important.  In particular, in "The
Essentials of Beer Styles", Eckhardt refers to the SRM scale and claims
it is basically the same as "the old Lovibond" scale.  His numbers
suggest that beers above 40L are essentially black, and the middle of
the amber range is in the low to mid teens.  This scale seems to fit
with Dave Miller's method of computing beer color based on the known
Lovibond rating of the grains used, and the amount of each grain in the
grist.  That is, when I use Miller's method to get an approximation of
what color a recipe will produce, it fits very closely to the 
interpretation of those numbers in Eckhardt.

However, I have seen several suggestions here and elsewhere that the
Lovibond scale is not linear, which it would have to be for Miller's 
formula to work.  In particular, an article by Martin Manning in Brewing
Techniques, claims that the Lovibond scale is curved, and that any
beer above 20L is considered black.  It is interesting to note that
in a graph he gives in this article showing both a linear interpretation
of Lovibond, and a curved one, 20L on the curved scale is approximately
40L on the linear one.  The oft-quoted suggestion that Michelob Dark
is 17L, which I have heard attributed to George and Laurie Fix, seems
to be based on the curved scale.

So, the question is, first, which is correct?  And second, why the
confusion?

- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas Aylesworth                     |  t_aylesworth at lfs.loral.com
Space Processor Software Engineering  |  
Loral Federal Systems, Manassas, VA   |  (703) 367-6171



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Date: Sat, 11 Jun 1994 10:18:30 -0700
From: Don Put <dput at csulb.edu>
Subject: Johnson Controllers

>From: Gary S. Kuyat <gsk at sagan.bellcore.com>
>Subject: Hunter Airstat Alternative

<snipped some good info on Johnson Controls here>

I, too, use a Johnson Controller for my beer fridge.  The only difference
between Gary's setup and mine, is that I bought the model with the
coiled air bulb sensing unit located on the top.  It's designed to be 
used in a walk-in cooler, so it doesn't have the remote bulb sensor.
I mounted it on one of the inside walls of my reefer, and wired it directly
into the circuit by using the leads which normally would be hooked to the
fridges original thermostat.  I did this because I didn't want to 
interrupt the normal defrost cycles (21 minutes every 6 hrs., although
this is controlled be a sensing unit on the freezer coils which will cut
out once a desired temp is reached, i.e., when the ice on the coils is 
gone).  I also removed the insulation from between the freezer and
fridge compartments so that the whole unit is the same temp.  

Now, I know that with the temps we often ask the fridge to maintain
that defrosting isn't that big a deal, and we don't open and close the
door as much as with our "regular" fridge, but I've found that I still get
quite a bit of water draining into the collection pan after a cycle.  
My impression is that if you just plug the controlled electrical supply 
to the fridge, then you will not get normal defrost cycles (which are
controlled by a separate timer in the circuit that needs a constant 
supply of power).  

So, having said all that, does anyone out there using the Hunter Airstat 
or a wiring method like Gary uses ever have to defrost their fridges 
(providing, of course, that they normally had an automatic defrost cycle)?  
Just curious, I guess I'm a data hound!  Email would be fine.

I bought mine from Johnstone Supply (a Grainger type place, only smaller
scale) and it cost $49.12.

don
dput at csulb.edu


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Date: Sat, 11 Jun 94 12:24 CDT
From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Shipping Damage

 
 >From: ryancr at allspice.jsan.gtefsd.com (Rich Ryan)
 
 Postings like this make it very difficult to end discussions when they are 
 over.  So I must again annoy many by talking about mills.
 
 >While we are speaking of mills, one of my fellow homebrew club members
 bought one of Jack's mills and was thoroughly displeased. The mill had
 not be made properly and arrived in pieces. The manufacturer initially
 blamed the problem on UPS when it was clearly a production problem.
 
 The "manufacturer" (that's me)  received complete restitution from UPS for 
 the damage and to imply that it was an "initial" attempt to slough off 
 production problems on shipping damage is less than unkind.
 
 The mill arrived with the base cracked, the front and rear panels broken in 
 half, the hopper in more pieces that it was assembled from and the shaft on 
 one of the rollers was actually bent.
 
 When your friend called, I offered to immediately send a new one and deal 
 with UPS later.  He accused me of shipping junk, declined my offer and his 
 full purchase price was cheerfully refunded.
 
 Every once in awhile, one runs into a person like that and one simply 
 recognize that some people are like that and I don't lose any sleep over it.  
 To publicly post such a story allows me the small satisfaction of sharing the 
 frustration with others and makes you and he look like fools.
 
 
 >From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
 
 To end this one on a friendly note...
 
 > If a description (couple of sentences) specifing the reasons for using 
 boiling water were presented, then it might have been a reasonable
 statement.
 
 Anyone who has ever had anything published other than an ad knows the power 
 and frustration of the editors' pencil.  What you read in the final article 
 aint necessarily what the author wrote.  In this case, I reviewed the galley 
 proofs before publishing and put back many things they edited out and still 
 it suffered much from the ultimate decisions of the editor.
 
 >  Since I am an owner of a certain JSP product...
 
 Why do you think I treat you so gently?  Imagine the froth if you had a 
 Glatt!   The Digest would be constipated for a month.
 
 > I have read this ad before, and on the HBD.  I also read it in BT, although 
 the level of my attention does vary depending on the source.
 
 You might find it interesting to compare the two versions.
 
 js
 

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Date: Sat, 11 Jun 1994 15:50:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Steven C. Boxer" <scb15 at columbia.edu>
Subject: 

set homebrew nomail

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Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 10:43:31 -0600
From: staib at oodis01.hill.af.mil (Maj Don Staib )
Subject: Good Brewing Software

For the one asking about brewing software... I beta tested a
program that is now available to the public.  Just about everything
anyone could want in a program.  Inventories, Malts, Grains, Hops,
Calculated IBUs, % alcohol, Mash/Sparge, Boiling/fermentation,
Bottling/tasting note space...etc.etc.

Made by a brewer for brewers!

The address for Brewer's Calculator is:

Regent Software Co.
15 Camellia Place
Oakland, CA  94602

email:   b_regent at holonet.net

The Braumeister from Layton, Utah U.S.A.,

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Date:     Sat, 11 Jun 94 22:45:06 CDT
From: "Charles S. Jackson" <sjackson at ftmcclln-amedd.army.mil>
Subject:  Keg to brewpot?

Hello again!

     Let me start by thanking all that wrote to give their testimonial on the
brewing software of their choice.  At last count I received over 50 responses.
There was an occasional recommendation of this or that obscure program but the
preponderance of responses were split between sudsw30 and Brewers Calculator.
I am *looking* at one and waiting for a copy (or site) of the other.

     My next newbie question:  I have obtained a propane burner and am looking
for a cheap kettle to allow me to boil the entire volume of my lowly extract
wort.  I can get 7.25 gal SS keg for $40.00 and have the top cut off for
~$15.00.  Anybody out there brewing in a keg?  Any problems?  Anybody have any
other ideas for a cheap (cheaper?) brew pot?  I heard about using the SS top
from a DE filter (swimming pool paraphenalia) from a fellow in CA.  It seems
that the trend out there is to replace DE filters with canister units but here
in Alabama that is NOT the trend.

TIA
Steve a.k.a. The Alabama Outlaw
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brewing beer is far more exciting when it is both a hobby AND a felony!
                                  The Alabama Outlaw

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Date: Sat, 11 Jun 94 21:36:28 PDT
From: DJM1%CRPTech%DCPP at bangate.pge.com
Subject: Hops in Starter

Domenick, 
I use hops in all my yeast starters. I think that
the yeast has less of a "shock" when pitched if
it has come from a starter with the same IBU's 
and gravity as the beer it is pitched to. It 
has worked for me...........

Daniel Meaney
djm1 at pge.com





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Date: Sun, 12 Jun 1994 08:27:12
From: lkbonham at beerlaw.win.net (Louis K. Bonham)
Subject: Farnsworth/Fix Seminar Info

The brochures and registration information for the July
9-10 Farnsworth/Fix brewing seminars have been printed,
and everyone who requested information in response to
my earlier posts here should have received an ASCII version
via private e-mail. If you did not, please let me know and
I'll shoot you one ASAP. 


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Date: Sun, 12 Jun 1994 11:38:17 -0400 (ADT)
From: David Rodger <drodger at access.digex.net>
Subject: Beginner's Technique

Hi -

I'm a relatively new brewer, with 4 batches of extract completed, and I'm 
noticing a strong "yeasty" nose to all the ones that I've tasted so 
far.  So, I'm going to try changing some of my equipment, to see what I 
can do.  In particular, I've got a carboy that I haven't used before, 
and I want to incorporate it into the process a la Miller, for trub 
removal.

Questions:

1. Is trub removal important?  Could it be causing a strong yeasty smell?

2. Here's my current process, using only a plastic primary fermenter.
   Day of brewing:
   ---------------
   Boil wort
   Sparge wort thru to plastic fermenter
   cool wort
   pitch yeast

   Wait for primary fermentation to complete: (3-5 days?)
   ------------------------------------------
   bottle

And, this is what I think is recommended:
Day of brewing:
- ---------------
Boil wort
Sparge wort thru to plastic fermenter
cool wort
pitch yeast
siphon from plastic bucket to glass carboy; aeration is ok

Next Day:
- ---------
Rack from carboy back to plastic bucket (do not aerate the wort)

Wait for primary fermentation to complete: (3-5 days?)
- ------------------------------------------
Rack from plastic bucket to carboy
let settle out (1-5 days?)

bottle

That seems like a lot of back and forth; is it all worthwhile?

Additionally, I'm wondering about the time between the first rack into 
the carboy, and the racking back into the plastic bucket for primary 
fermentation.  Should I do it if there are any bubbles coming out (i.e. 
if fermentation has already started) or only if it's still inactive?

Thanks for any suggestions/comments.

 - Dave

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
David Rodger
drodger at access.digex.net

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Date: Sun, 12 Jun 1994 12:54:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: MCKSMI at delphi.com
Subject: Real Altbier Yeast (McKee Smith)

Jonathan G. Knight wrote:

>I have read HBD opinion which says that the Wyeast "European"  is an 
>"alt" yeast, >but I have also read that the Wyeast "German"  is in fact 
>"the" "alt" yeast.  Will the real Altyeast please stand up?

I think the Wyeast 1007 (German) is closer to the yeast used to produce 
true Dusseldorf  Altbier.  It is suppose to be a RcleanerS yeast.  However, I 
personally prefer a slightly more malty alt, so I use the Wyeast 1338 
(European).  While in Germany a few years ago, I found a fairly wide variety 
in the tastes (and colors!) of the alts.

McKee Smith
Irving, TX

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Date: Sun, 12 Jun 1994 16:21:13 -0500 (EST)
From: ulick at ulix.rad.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: Thermarest, judging

Bob Taliewicz mentioned his method of insulating a holey bucket type
lauter tun with a Thermarest that costs $45.  When a 10 gallon 
cylindrical Gott can be gotten at a local Builders square for <$40 (5 gallon 
for $25), this sounds like a lousy investment.  Admittedly you still need a 
false bottom, but anything is an improvement over a holey bucket.  Of course,
if you use it for camping too it may make sense, but do you really want sticky
wort on a camping mat?

Talking about insulated lauter tuns (or not), I guess enough has bee said on
the digest about Jim Busch's flame of Jack Schmidling.  Surely a flame of an
article that was not in hbd, but published in BT, is a rule violation :-). 
I exchanged email with Jim and he defended his flame with a defense that after
judging beer as long he had and tasted so many astringent beers, etc.  Of 
course, my opinion of beer judges is quite low, and the amusing differences 
on scoring sheets from what I know to be reality is one of
the few pleasures I get from paying people to drink my beer.  But on the
subject of astringent beers, I would suspect that failure to adjust pH
is much more significent than temperature.  Not that I know or anything (I
don't deliberately fuck with the beers I make), but try making decent tea with
distilled water.  Also a friend of mine had a fault in his beer that I
thought was astringent, but was due to a failure to rack the wort off the 
trub.  I don't think any judge picked it up though.  They just blathered on 
about infections and, of course, warm fermentation temperatures!  I must 
have a look at his score sheets.

I guess I have a few questions about exactly how beer judges know that a 
ceratin fault has a particular cause.  Is brewing bad batches a required 
part of the training, or are the causes and their effects simply assessed
according to good old fashioned hearsay?  Do experienced beer judges 
deliberately brew a batch sparged with boiling water in order to familiarize
themselves with astringency?  Perhaps competition organizers should enter
deliberately misbrewed beers to assess judging performance.

Though a slightly different subject, Geroge Fix's comments on his entering
of an old American Lager recipie in competition in the last BT was telling.
The judges lambasted his lack of 'style' and suggested getting recipies
from Papazian's book!  Does that mean Goat scrotums are required in 
competition?
__________________________________________________________________________
 'Heineken!?! ... F#$% that s at &* ...  | Ulick Stafford, Dept of Chem. Eng.  
    Pabst Blue Ribbon!'               | Notre Dame IN 46556
                                      |    ulick at darwin.cc.nd.edu   


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Date: Sun, 12 Jun 1994 15:58:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Phil Brushaber <pbrush at netcom.com>
Subject: Need source on 3 Micron Filter


I have been pretty successful filtering some of my beers using a 
cartridge filter. (You know the one which is about 12" high, popularized 
by "The Filter Store", also used by home applications like Teledyne).

When I bought it, it came with a 0.5 micron filter. (Great for light 
lagers, filters haze, all yeast and even some bacteria). From a local 
hardware store I got a 5 micron water filter (sometime used on some 
darker beers, gets out any junk, but does not filter chill haze or bacteria).

What I am looking for is a 3 micron filter (recommended by George Fix).
Dr. Fix says that it is a good compromise filtering out haze and large 
amounts of yeast but not too much body. Does anyone out there know of a 
source for a filter of this size? (3 micron) Thanks!!


                                             pbrush at netcom.com


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Date: Sun, 12 Jun 94 22:11:50 CDT
From: cpu-spp at ct.med.ge.com (CPU-SPP generic account)
Subject: Oh, what a tangled web we weave


This was recently published in the local Milwaukee newspaper.  I
present it for your edification and amusement.

Beer maker's quest to compete in the global marketplace [sic]has spawned
some pretty odd and complex relationships.  Jack MacDonough, chairman and
chief executive officer of Miller Brewing Company, gave the following
example during a speech [at the Metropolitan Milwaukee Association of
Commerce's 28th annual Business Outlook Luncheon.]:

"I will tell you about the tangled web of alliances involving just one
company, Molson Breweries USA, which shares a name with Molson in Canada,
their original parent.

But now Molson Breweries USA is wholly owned by Miller Brewing Company,
which also brews and sells Coors and Coors Light in Canada.

However, Molson Canada also brews and sells Coors and Coors Light in
Canada.

Coors has recently purchased the right to brew one of Labatt's brands in
the US.  Labatt is the second-largest brewery in Canada and Molson
Canada's chief competitor.

Labatt sells Budweiser in Canada.

Meanwhile, the Foster's Brewing Group of Australia continues to own 40% of
Molson Canada.  Foster's, in turn, is 17% owned by Asahi, of Japan.

Molson USA now sells both Foster's and Asahi here in the USA.

Molson Canada also brews Kirin, another Japanese beer, for sale in North
America.

In England, Foster's makes John Courage, which is one of the brands we
import.  But just to make things more interesting, John Courage also makes
and exports Watney's, which is one of John Courage's main competitors here 
in the states.

The people who sell Watney's are called Wisdom.  They're owned by FEMSA of
Mexico, in whom - you guessed it - Miller has an 8% interest.

And to complete this very orderly and coherent picture, take a guess what
brands the Foster's Brewing Group brews in England:  Budweiser and Miller."

MacDonough concluded that "the world's brewers don't have permanent
friends or enemies - they have permanent interests in making money."



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Date: Sat, 11 Jun 94 09:34:00 -0800
From: jim.king at kandy.com (Jim King)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1446 (Ju


Jack Schmidling writes to Jim B.:
H> You can assure him all you wish, but you are ignoring physics and arg
H> like an idiot.  You are also proving that much of your vast time in g
H> been a waste of time.  

jack,

  Why must your turn every discussion into a personal attack?  You make 
some good points, as does Jim.  If you could keep it on that level, all 
the HBD members might learn something from the interaction of the two of 
you.  Unfortunately, you seem to insist on turning to name calling, 
which is a waste of bandwidth, antagonistic, and tends to obscure the 
good points you made in the same article.  

Jim King
jim.king at kandy.com
                           

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Subject: Homebrew Digest #1448 (June 13, 1994)



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Date: 	Mon, 13 Jun 1994 04:30:39 PDT
From: William_L._King.Wbst311 at xerox.com
Subject: Malt Liquor v Beer

Greetings:
Here is an easy question that has bothered me: What is the difference between
malt liquor and beer (ale and lager)?  No, it's not a joke, though some of the
labels on ML sure are!
Bill K.

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Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 8:34:47 EDT
From: Mark A Fryling <mfryling at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: thermometer error/metheglin recipe

Howdydo,

In saturdays HBD, Ronald Dwelle asks about a new thermometer that apparently 
was reading high by about 8 degrees when he measured the temperature of his 
boiling wort.  Well Ronald, there are a couple of possible effects here:  the 
first possibility is the one that you suggested, namely that the thermometer is
incorrectly calibrated.  You can test this by measuring the temperature of 
pure, deoxygenated boiling water.  You will need to correct for boiling point 
depression due to reduced atmospheric pressure if you live at an altitude 
significantly above sea level.  The second (and I think more likely) 
explanation is that the boiling point of your wort really is about  220 F 
rather than 212F because of elevation of the boiling point of the solution by 
nonvolatile solutes.  Wort is a fairly concentrated solution of sugars which 
have a MUCH lower vapor pressure than water because of this the boiling point 
of the solution is progressively elevated as the solution becomes more 
concentrated according to:

          (delta)T = K x m

Where (delta)T = equals the total boiling point elevation for the solution
             K = the boiling point elevation constant (about 1 degree F/m)
             m = the molality of the solution (the # of moles of solute per 
                 Kg of solution)

The thing to notice about this is that the boiling point elevation is 
independent of the identity of the solute so that a solution of a mixture of 
solutes will elevate the BP just the same as the same concentration of a single
solute.  In either case, if you have doubts about how well your thermometer is 
working, check it on water.  It should boil very near 212 F (or below if you 
live in the mountains).  Oh yeah, the other thing to note is that salts like 
NaCl actually contribute two solute units (Na+ and Cl-) to the solution and 
therefore have twice the affect on the BP as something like glucose.

Now for a new recipe.  I have seen numerous requests in the past for relatively
quick mead recipes.  Well I just bottled the latest iteration on my 
Lemon-Ginger metheglin recipe which scored a 38 last year in a local 
competition for second in its class.  This is about the fifth time I have made 
this recipe but is the first time I have used real lemon instead of the asian 
spice lemongrass.  Both are very nice but my initial opinion is that the latest
iteration is an improvement.  The good news is that this is a quick recipe that
is ready to drink (from primary to glass) in only about 3-5 months.  So without
further ado:

Lemon-Ginger Metheglin

12lbs of raw unfiltered Orange Blossom honey
Juice of 4 large lemons
zest (yellow outer skin, not the white) of 2 of the lemons
3 oz fresh grated ginger root

Warm the honey in the microwave or on the stove in a pot of simmering water to 
aid in dilution.

Add everything to the primary with enough good brewing water to make 5 gallons 
total.

Add:  1.5tsp Yeast energizer
      10g Lalvin 71B-1122 Narbonne wine yeast (rehydrated first according to 
                                               instructions on packet)

Primary fermentation lasted 1 week at about 70 F
Secondary fermentation for 3 weeks or until completely clear in carboy

          OG = 1.085  FG = 0.996

Bottled with 1/2 cup Honey (or 3/4 cup corn sugar) dissolved in water.

The finished product is dry and sparkling like a champagne and I have served 
this with great success at two of my sisters weddings.  I will also be making 
large quantities of it for my own wedding next summer.

E-mail direct if you have any questions.

Good luck and have fun,
Mark Fryling
<mfryling at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>

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Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 09:33:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: rpyle1 at ef2007.efhd.ford.com (Robert Pyle)
Subject: First Lager!  Questions


Well, I finally did it!

I managed to acquire a used chest freezer and a Hunter Airstat (I think
that I got one of the last ones out there)  And  I made my first lager
on Saturday!

I used six pounds of extract, 2.5 oz. of Saaz hops (5.4% AA) and 3/4 lb.
of 40L Crystal.  My OG was 1.035 which seemed a little low to me.

I pitched one package of rehydrated European Lager dry yeast and kept
the fermenter in my dining room at about 70 deg. F for about 18 hours.
I then racked into a carboy and put into my freezer at 57 deg. F last
night.  I plan to drop the temperature 5 degrees per day to 45 degrees
and ferment there until completion.

My question is:  Why am I slowly dropping the temperature.  I couldn't
find a reason in either Papazian or Miller (Brewing the World's Great
Beers), but I have seen this advice on the hbd.  Of course,  Itrust the
wisdom of the hbd, but am searching for the source of this wisdom.

The wort tastes great and I can't wait to try it.

As usual, the hbd gets a large thanks for the great information and
support.

Please e-mail or post any replies.

Thanks a lot!
- --Rob Pyle

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Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 10:19:27 -0600
From: gmeier at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Gary Meier)
Subject: Beer's Law

Todd Carlson explained Beer's Law (named for the person, not the beverage)
and how it relates the light absorbing properties of a solution to things
like the concentration of the solution and the length of the light path
through the solution.
                A = abc

When I learned this in college, after a long and somewhat tedious
description of all of the theory behind the simple equation, the professor
summed it up in a manner I think the Digest will appreciate:

"Remember Beer's Law like this:  The deeper the glass, the darker the brew,
the less the amount of light that gets through."

Gary Meier, Research Chemist   FMC Corporation, Princeton, NJ
(gmeier at ncsa.uiuc.edu)



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Date:          Mon, 13 Jun 1994 09:27:17 CST
From: "Dan Houg" <HOUGD at mdh-bemidji.health.state.mn.us>
Subject:       more on skunkiness...

Being somewhat of a technically oriented person, I was doubtful that 
incidental light exposure of beer to light *really* could cause a 
change.  I mean how much power could those photons have after 
traveling through window glass, a 1/4" thick glass carboy and 5 
gallons of beer.  Well...  I'd brewed a lager and placed it in my 
entryway for the cold phase.  I didn't cover the carboy because, as I 
mentioned before, I wasn't a true believer-- yet.  After two days of 
primary fermentation my 3 year old daughter said it smells like a 
skunk in our entry.  For another day or so I deceived myself, 
thinking it was just the prodigious amounts of Saaz I'd used.  Nope.  
Definate skunk odor.  Very strong actually, quite unmistakable.  The 
resultant beer, however, was pretty good (uh, kinda like Heineken...) 
and the odor (probably shouldn't class this as an aroma) faded over 
time.  The moral:  Light exposure really *can* cause isomerization 
with resultant skunk odor.

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Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 10:25:21 -0500 (EST)
From: STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com
Subject: Jeff's Tasty Easy Pale recipe

IN HBD#1447, Jeff Frane offers up a tasty looking PA extract recipe:

>7# Steinbart's Extra Light Extract (Scottish)
>1# Laaglander DME
>
>1/4# flaked barley
>1/4# flaked maize
>3/4# Belgian Carapils

>Hops: 1-1/2 oz. Northern Brewer pellets (ca. 8%) < after 15 min
>      1/2 oz    East Kent Golding plug < after 60 min
>      1 oz      East Kent Golding plug at end boil
>
>1 Tablespoon Irish Moss -- rehydrated -- added at 60 min mark
>
>Boil 90 min.
>
>Yeast: Wyeast 1968 London ESB
>
><burp>
>
>OG = ca. 1050
>TG = ca. 1007


Jeff says that the grains are steeped for an hour at 150 deg F before sparging 
them into a kettle.

I have no doubt that this is indeed a scrumptious brew, yet I wonder about the 
formulation.  I seem to recall an exchange a couple of weeks ago between Jeff 
and Al K. about the uses of flaked maize and Jeff made a statement to the 
effect that he didn't know why someone would steep flaked maize by itself - as 
opposed to using it in a mini-mash.  

Jeff, could you comment on your grain steeping in this recipe?  According to 
the info that I have read about the Belgian color malts, they have no enzymatic 
power.  So what do you hope to accomplish by steeping the maize and the barley? 
 And what do you tell your students when you do this?  Do you talk about 
enzymes, conversion, starch hazes, etc?

Just wondering,
Steve S.

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Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 11:09:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Wort O2

Terry writes:
> So, all of this talk of extracting tannins got me thinking. If 180 degree
> plus temperatures extract tanin, why doesn't decoction do the same thing
> since you are boiling the grain? 

In my opinion, as was noted previously, pH is an important factor in
polyphenol extraction.  In a mash, hopefully the pH has stabalized in
the acidic range (in the 5's).  So, sparge water that has not been 
acidulated will have a gradual effect of raising the pH (more basic,
but still on the acid side, 6's).  This effect is minimized by the 
buffering action of the mash.  In a decoction, usually only 30% of
the mash is boiled at a time, and this will increase the total amount
of polyphenols, which is one of the things that mke decocted lagers so
different, interesting and complex.  This is very different from sparging
with boiling water.  There's a lot more grain husks in the whole mash
than are present in a 30% decoction.

And as Rich Fortnum recommends, 80C is the high end of sparge water,
not 100C.

Don writes:
> Subject: Wort oxygenation
> 
> The recent posts by George Fix and others about wort oxygenation coincided
> with a recent project of mine that I recently completed.  Instead of 
> using an airstone arrangement, which I think works very well from all the
> reports on the HBD, I thought I'd try and oxygenate the chilled wort as
> it passes from the kettle to the fermentor.  This is the only place in 
> my current system that I needed to close more completely.  
> 
> Also, I've seen references to Sierra Nevada aerating their wort "halfway
> through the cooling process."  Most of the literature on HSA that I have
> read suggest 70-80F as the threshold for HSA (anything above is dangerous;
> anything below is safe).  Now, does SA start aerating their wort after 
> enough of the cooled wort is collected (i.e., the halfway point--this I 
> doubt), or do they really start halfway between boiling and say 70F?  If
> the latter, how do they avoid HSA?

Im not sure of the type of chiller you are using, I assume its immersion,
since you are transferring chilled wort from the kettle to the fermenter.
This is vastly different from a commercial setup where the hot wort is
counterflow chilled, and on exit (at the end of the line, but many feet
before entrance into the fermenter) is injected with O2 at around 8mg/L.
Lots of brewers I know dial up a rate of injection and let it flow the
entire batch (25 BBls in our local micro).  Since Sierra makes ~110BBl
batches, *maybe* they want a lower amount of DO.  I wonder about this 
myself, if I were Sierra, I might dial up 4mg/L for the entire time, but
hey Im not about to argue with Sierras beers!  So, the wort is probably
around 60F when it is injected, so HSA is a non issue.  In a good chiller,
the first cast out, chilled wort will be at pitching temps.  Since you are
using 1/16" O2 lines, I would run the thing for the entire transfer
period.  1/16" is huge in O2 terms, so dispersion and saturation will 
not be as effective as with pin hole injectors.

Good brewing,
Jim Busch


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Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 11:04:17 EST
From: John DeCarlo x7116 <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Rudeness based upon What You Drink

Michael Jackson was recently at the Brickskellar in DC and had this 
memorable quote (not exact due to memory loss):

If your coworker comes in your office and tells you he drinks Corona,
don't immediately call him a d*ckhead."

His point being you don't win over converts by being rude, no matter how
much you are provoked. <g>

John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo at mitre.org


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Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 9:15:23 MDT
From: npyle at n33.ecae.stortek.com
Subject: Skunks and Clarity

Bill Szymczak writes about Paul's desire for skunky beer:

>........  So if you actually want the skunkiness, its very easy.
>First ts better to use clear or green bottles, and after you fill
>them simply leave them under flourescent or sun light for a day or
>so (actually a few hours may be enough) and you'll have a skunky
>Heineken clone.  .................................................

I had a friend tell me a story about drinking some homebrews in the parking
lot of a ski area at lunchtime.  He claimed that the first one was excellent,
but that round two was skunky as Pepe Le Pew!  He said the bottles were
sitting in the sun for all of 15-20 minutes and then went skunky.  I thought
he was suffering from altitude sickness (lack of oxygen to the brain or
something), until I had my own close encounter with Pepe.  I was raking
leaves one fall afternoon, with a glass of Miller Reserve Amber Ale sitting
on the top of the fence.  I would rake a while, and have a sip; rake and sip.
Well, by the time I got to the bottom 1/4 of the glass, it was skunky!  I'm
not kidding!  In both of these cases we're talking about the beer going off
within minutes.  I've heard of people who place their glass in the shade of
something while drinking outdoors, and I thought they were overly anal.  Not
any more!  Note that this first incident was at approx. 10,000 feet of
altitude, and the second one at approx. 5,000 feet, so your skunk may vary.

**

Al writes about the sparge water ruckus:

>If the pH is kept low, you will not increase tannin extraction appreciably
>even with boiling water.  A lot of this has to do with water chemistry, which
>is a point that Jack failed to mention when he said that this works for him.
>It's not just the system, but also the water.  What you *will* increase when
>you sparge with 180 or 190F water is the extraction of unconverted starch.
>This will lead to permanent haze in the beer.  I've tasted quite a few of
>Jack's beers and there have never been problems with astringency, but I must
>also admit that the beer has never been brilliantly clear.  This doesn't
>necessarily mean it's starch haze, but it could be.

All emotion aside (like that's really possible!), I claim the real debate
here is about making your point clearly.  Not only does Jack fail to mention
water chemistry, he oftens implies it makes no difference, i.e. if it works
for him, it should work for everyone, and this is just not true.  He fails to
mention that his system is quite lossy in terms of heat, and that these
methods may not work elsewhere.  Granted, you can't go around disclaiming
every possible scenario, but you can throw in the ones that will obviously
cause confusion.  BTW, low pH in decoctions is the reason tanning extraction
doesn't go through the roof in decoction mashing, to answer several
participant's questions.  One more thing, sort of on the subject:  I brewed a
beer once with a load of starch haze in it and it tasted as bad as it looked.
I felt I could taste the starch, though I can't really describe it.  Has
anyone else had this experience, or was it just a psychological effect?

Cheers,
Norm = npyle at hp7001.stortek.com

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Date:         Mon, 13 Jun 94  11:18:15 EDT
From: Bill Hollingsworth <U9508WH at VM1.HQADMIN.DOE.GOV>
Subject:      Partial Mashing and Partial Volume Boils


I have finally given partial mashing a try and I'm really pleased with
the results (BTW, I bought a 5 gallon, round, plastic Igloo cooler -
just like the one pictured in Charlie's book - for about $18 from Sam's
Club in Gaithersburg, MD).  Partial mashing was a good way for me to
experiment with non-specialty malt grains on a scale smaller than your
standard 5 gallon all-grain recipe.  I feel that partial mashing a
couple pounds of two-row pale malt in addition to specialty grains
(which, BTW, I still steep separately) has greatly improved the flavor
of my beer; especially compared to my previous recipes only using
extract with specialty grains.  FWIW, I now use only DME to supplement
my partial mash recipe, since one thing I noticed early on as a
beginning brewer was that malt extract syrups seemed to carry over a
tinny, metallic taste to the final product (I remember thinking that
some of my early beers ended up tasting just like the syrup had smelled
in the can).

However, I'm still doing a partial volume boil, just like extract
brewing, which leads me to question if there are any major drawbacks to
this approach?  I know that bittering hops don't isomerize as well in
higher density worts (so I just use more hops), but I was wondering are
there any other concerns beside this?

TIA and cheers!
Bill H.

My various E-Mail Addresses --->
OfficeVision:  DOEVM(U9508WH)     BITNET:  U9508WH at DOEVM.BITNET
Internet:  u9508wh at vm1.hqadmin.doe.gov
X.400:  ADMD=ATTMAIL/PRMD=USDOE/O=HQADMIN/OU1=DOEVM/OU2=U9508WH

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Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 15:13:39 -0800 (PST)
From: P Brooks <pbrooks at rig.rain.com>
Subject: RE: Hops in starter


In HBD#1446 Domenick Venezia was overseen to say -

> I have always blindly, unthinkingly used some hops when making up my 
yeast
> starters.  The question is "why bother?".  I checked the yeast FAQ 
(Thanks
> for all your work Patrick Weix) and the question is not addressed. 

Another round of thanks to Patrick from this corner as well. As far as the 
'why bother', I've always just figured that the hops added an additional 
measure of protection against spoilage (antibacterial qualities?) - but I 
really don't have any specific references to support this. The only 
concern I've heard mentioned about hopping the starter in the circles I 
brew in would be the change of bitterness/IBU's caused by adding hopped 
starter - but I'm sort of a hop-head anyway so I don't really care.

ciao,
pb
- --
pbrooks at rig.rain.com  --- Renaissance Information Group
"A 16th Century Paradigm for using 21st Century Technology"

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Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 08:55:20 PDT
From: tima at wv.MENTORG.COM (Tim Anderson)
Subject: Trip report

Went to San Diego.

Rip Tide Brewery, Brewski's Pub, good beer, good food, good atmosphere.
Old Columbia Brewery and Pub, better beer, better food, better atmosphere.

Way to go, San Diego!

tim


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Date: 13 Jun 94 11:59:01 EDT
From: jennings at readmore.com (Todd Jennings)
Subject: NY Beerfest 2

Jim Keesler writes:

>Does anyone have any information on whether there will be a second New 
York
> Brew Festival? I was under the impression that the first was a success, 
but have heard 
>nor seen nothing if they are going to do it again.  Any info 
appreciated.

The current issue of Ale Street News slates the event for September 
17th(a Saturday).
Last year it was under the Brooklyn Bridge.  But Steve Hindy of Brooklyn 
Brewery
is one of the organizers, and word is out he might be looking for another 
locale nearer 
to the Williamsburg Bridge.  
Last year's was good, but turnout was lower thatn expected.  This year's 
is three weeks
earlier, probably in hopes of warmer weather bringing the people out. 
========================================================================
Todd Jennings                                   "Careful alcoholic 
consumption carries many
tjenning at readmore.com                  serious repercussions, so DO be 
careful."  
========================================================================

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1449, 06/14/94