FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Thermal loses in mash (Bob Jones)
  Sparge temps: Jack and Jim both correct. (Bill Szymczak)
  Re: Lids on Steins (Jeff Sargent)
  misc. Q and A (Jeremy Ballard Bergsman)
  EasyBottle ("Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616")
  Whitbread Ale/Pilsner Urquell (Aaron Shaw)
  Root Beer (CJORGENSEN)
  Who is the keeper of the Brewpub Database? (Dave Shaver)
  propane cookers (Steve Christiansen)
  Homebrew Supply Shops in VA Beach (John W. Carpenter)
  Yeast Starters / Sparge Temp (Don Rudolph)
  Bottle Head Space? ( LARRY KELLY)
  What is Belgium Biscuit Grain? ( LARRY KELLY)
  Cylindroconical Fermenters (wyatt)
  Apple or Strawberry Beer Recipe NEEDED!! ( LARRY KELLY)
  Twistoffs/SUDS (David Draper)
  temps again (ANDY WALSH)
  A Retraction in re: rings (Jeff Frane)
  Zoological zymurgy (kit.anderson)
  Infection Rings; Lovibond (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  YeastLabs European Lager yeast (Allan Rubinoff)
  Skunks (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  shipping damage (Rich Ryan)
  yeast starters (Ron Hart)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 09:05:41 +0900
From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: Thermal loses in mash

On the subject of thermal losses during sparging......

I use to have these big temperature drops when I sparged. Now I don't, here
is what I do. I heat the mash to 170 deg f for mashout. I heat the sparge
water to 168 deg f. My sparge water drains through a very short piece (1 ft)
of hose and then down to Uncle Bob's Auto Sparger (TM, patent pending, all
rights reserved, copyright). It is a copper ring placed right on top of the
mash. The ring has small holes around the outside and inside. The ring hooks
up to a float valve that controls the rate of flow automatically, allowing
me to seal (really a 2" thick foam rubber) the top of the mash tun. This
gadget works well because I don't have any of the losses from droping the
sparge water through the air and the mash is sealed thermally. I have to
laugh when I see some of the spinning sparge gadgets that are sold. I made a
really cool spinning sparger at one point, and it looked neat and everyone
was amazed. Great clouds of steam rose from the mash tun. This is the
maximum way of heat loss. My mash temp does drop from 170 to about 165
during sparging. The wort ends up in the kettle at about 155, that loss is
due to the pump and line losses. I got the float valve from Graingers.

Some of you might have seen photos of the sparge gadget at my talk during
last years AHA conference.

Good brewing and low thermal losses!

Bob Jones
bjones at novax.llnl.gov



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Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 14:02:23 EDT
From: bszymcz%ulysses at relay.nswc.navy.mil (Bill Szymczak)
Subject: Sparge temps: Jack and Jim both correct.

With all this arguing about sparge temperatures, I decided
to also measure the temperature of my mash while sparging
last Saturday.  For this batch I used 8 lbs of grain in a
4 gallon SS Farberware pot with a copper manifold sparger.
The mash contained about 10-11 quarts of water.  After mashing-out
at 170 F, the mash sat for 15 minutes, after which I
recirculated about 3 quarts before beginning to collect the wort 
in my boiling kettle.  At this time, the temperature of the mash had
indeed dropped to 152 F.  However, I left the thermometer in the
mash-tun (=lauter-tun with this set up)
during the entire sparge (about 40 minutes for 7 gallons)
and found the temperature slowly rise to 161 F by the end.
The sparge water temperature was kept within 168-172 F the entire
time.  

I think that the conclusion here is that both Jack and Jim
are correct, depending on the lauter-tun design, speed of the
sparge, etc.  With a thinner pot, or one with a wider diameter,
and by sparging slower, it is possible to actually lose
heat, or have the temperature come to equilibrium (as Mike McCaw
reported in HBD1447).  However, with a better insulated lauter-tun,
and/or a slightly faster sparge, the temperature can approach that
of the sparge water especially near the end of the sparge.  This
is also the most likely time to extract tannins as the Ph of the
"mix" is probably higher (unless you acidify the sparge water, which
I do not).  So, I recommend checking your setup for yourself.
Personally, I would rather err on the low side.

Bill Szymczak    bszymcz at ulysses.nswc.navy.mil

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Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 13:07:22 -0500
From: jeff_sargent at il.us.swissbank.com (Jeff Sargent)
Subject: Re: Lids on Steins

There is a beautiful biergarden/open air market in downtown Munich  
within a few blocks of the Town Hall/Glockenspiel called the  
Viktualmarket or something similar.  They server wonderful helles and  
weissBiers there, in large class mugs with optional pewter discs that  
you could place over the top.

The reason for the lid became obvious to me within 10 minutes -- the 

beautiful trees lining the biergarden would drop leaves/seeds/twigs  
and so forth periodically.  There were also birds in the trees to  
contend with.

The bugs were not much of a problem in the early spring, but the lids  
would definately help that as well.

 - Jeff
sargent at il.us.swissbank.com

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Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 13:19:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeremy Ballard Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: misc. Q and A

> From: HEWITT at arcges.arceng.com
> Subject:  bottle volume/priming rate
> 
>   The priming rate I've used for my all-grain beers (usually high gravity)
> has been 1/2 to 3/4 cup corn sugar.  No problem carbonating at this level
> except it's usually much too highly carbonated.  I'm aware that priming rates
> should be reduced for kegging and wonder if this is true in going from a 
> 12 oz bottle to 0.5L (17 oz).  Intuitively, it doesn't seem logical that
> the beer volume should affect the degree of carbonation.  Is there any
> experience regarding bottle volume related to priming rate? 
> 
I do the experiment to answer this question every time I bottle.  I add
my priming sugar (boiled then cooled in water) to the entire beer (for
non-porters too :)).  I then bottle in bottles of various sizes, from 6
to 25 oz and the carbonation always comes out the same.  Are you changing
the relative amount of headspace?
 
> From: terfintt at ttown.apci.com (Terri Terfinko)
> Subject: Mash Water Adjustments
 
> gypsum container states that it is a water hardener.  I do understand the
> importance of having an acidic PH 5.1 - 5.5 for mashing, but not sure 
> why it is
> advisable to add gypsum regardless of water PH or hardness.
 
The point is to lower the pH and add calcium, both of which are important
to many people's water (but not all).  I wouldn't recommend blind addition
of any salt.
 
>      I feel it is important to understand the makeup of my water so I had an
> analysis done. The PH of 6.1 matched my litmus paper calculations.  I am not 
> sure how to determine from the mineral analysis if my water is soft or 
> Here is the analysis report.   I included the whole report since I am not
> which minerals determine hardness.  What the heck does MG/L or UG/L stand 
> for?  Books I read referred to PPM.   Any advice on mashing adjustments I 
mg/l is milligrams per liter, the same thing as ppm (w/v).
ug/l is micrograms per liter, the same thing as ppbillion (US billion).  That
u should be a greek mu.
 
> should make would be appreciated.
> PH       6.1
Not bad consider the low carbonate alkalinity, below.  You probably don't
need to adjust your pH at all.
> T ALK CAC03        16.0   MG/L  
> PHOS-TOTAL         .03    MG/L
> C TOT ORGAN        1.2    MG/L
This sounds bad to me.  Usually organics in water supplies are the
result of industrial pollution.
> T HARD CACO3      27.0    MG/L
This is your total hardness, expresses as the concentration of CaCO3 that
would give the same hardness.  This is quite low.
> CA TOTAL          9.02    MG/L
> MG                3.06    MG/L
> NA                4.63    MG/L
> K                 1.38    MG/L
> CL                5.00    MG/L
> SO4 TOTAL         23.0    MG/L
> SILICA TOTAL      17.95   MG/L
Sandy water?
> FE               334.0    UG/L
I think this borders on being too high.
Your water is nice and soft so it is easy to adjust for brewing.  Add about
 .5 g/gal of NaCl and 1 g/gal of CaCl2 unless making a beer that wants soft
water (e.g. pilsener).  Add .5 g/gal MgSO4 (Epsom salts) for pale ales.
Throw away the gypsum.

> From: KMYH09A at prodigy.com  ( LARRY KELLY)
> Subject: Racking wort to secondary in 8 hours?
 
> I just finished reading Millers book: The Complete Handbook of Homebrewing
> 
> He mentions that the wort should be racked in the secondary fermenter 8
> hours after racked into the primary.
 
> WHY?? Doesn't that give a better chance to contaminate the wort?  Yes, I
> know about trub build up, but if you pitch the yeast and the yeast finishes
> in a few days and then rack into the secondary, a few days is no big deal.
> So why does he say 8 hours?
 
The idea is to minimize the exposure to the trub.  In my hands this is
silly advice since at 8 hours the yeast are churning stuff up so much
that I could never rack off of the trub.  I agree with you, what's a few
days (of course I use an immersion chiller and leave most of both my
hot and cold break in the kettle)?
 
> From: GONTAREK at FCRFV1.NCIFCRF.GOV
> Subject: My first all grain/raspbeery ale recipe/KitchenAid grain mill

> 	My first all-grain batch was made by borrowing a corona grain
> mill from a buddy.  Because I want to continue the all-grain brewing,
> I have been looking into inexpensive grain mills.  My wife and I
> received a beautiful Kitchen Aid stand-up mixer as a wedding gift
> last year, and I understand that a grain mill attachment is made
> that is compatible with it.  The price I got from a local
> distributer was about $180, but my Dad works in food service and
> can get me one for $90.  Has anyone used this type of grain mill
> set-up (either for homebrewing or anything else)?  Is it worth
> the investment? I would appreciate hearing from anyone with
> information regarding the Kitchen Aid grain mill.
 
I have never used a Kitchen Aid (KA) grain mill but I hear that
they are traditional grain mills, that is, they grind.  For the 
same price as teh KA you could buy a nice roller mill (Glatt, Maltmill
no flames please).  It wouldn't be motorized but due to the large
hoppers and ease of cranking, I bet the total amount of work would
be the same and I'm sure the crush would be better.  Plus, you shouldn't
be grinding in the kitchen, assuming that's where you brew :).
 
> From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
> Subject: thermometer correction?
> 
>      A dumb high-school chemistry question:
>      
>      I just bought a new mercury floating thermometer and discovered 
>      on my first mash/boil that it's off. At boil, it reads about 
>      220-221 F. Can I assume the error is linear, always reading 8-9 
>      degrees high? That is, if the thermo reads 150, I'm mashing at 
>      141-142? Should I take it back and rant and rave and demand my 
>      money back, or is this normal? (This was just a cheapo K-mart 
>      kitchen floater.)
>      
Why don't you test it at the other end putting it in water in equilibrium
with ice.  If it reads 40 then use your correction factor, otherwise
toss it or interpolate.
 
- ---------------
 
I must add to the chorus defending Jack S. against Jim B. regarding
sparge water temps.  I use sparge water at about 200 F.  I have a
thermometer stuck about 1 inch into my grain bed and it never goes
above 175 (uninsulated zapap deal), even though part of it is exposed
to the hot water above the grain bed.

Jeremy Bergsman
jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu
 
 


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Date:     Mon, 13 Jun 94 16:25:14 EDT
From: "Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616" <wagnecz at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  EasyBottle

There's no such thing.  But, if you take a good look in the recycle
bin, you'll find certain champagne bottles that make your bottling
life much easier.  Two come to mind: Korbel Brut and Martinelli
Sparkling cider.  I'm able to bottle both of these with a bench
capper.  Some of the Taylor bottles also have the right size for
our caps.  There is also a slightly larger size that _does not_
work.  Cook's brand is an example.  I usually carry a cap in
my pocket for the questionable ones.

	Don't be afraid to go to the recycle center.  In every case,
as soon as people found out I was a homebrewer, the response ranged
from "right on!" to being treated like some kind of wizzard (You create
beer from the elements??!!!).  And the price is right...

	Your friends will also get quite a kick out of the campagne
bottles when you break them out.  Mine got nick-named "sluggers"
due to their resemblance to a softball bat... 

	Or was it the convenient thirst quenching (32 oz) size?

			Glen


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Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 16:32:57 -0400
From: ar568 at freenet.carleton.ca (Aaron Shaw)
Subject: Whitbread Ale/Pilsner Urquell

     Greetings all in homebrew land!
     In previous articles Dan Trollinger and Stephen Lovett
inquired about recipes for a Whitbread Pale Ale and Pilsner 
Urquell. Both of these recipes are taken from Dave Line's book
"Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy".

     Whitbread Light Ale (He does not have a recipe for the Pale
Ale, I thought that this one would be close enough to give you an
idea.)
 5 lb./2.5kg Crushed pale malt
 5 oz./150 gm Crushed crystal malt
 8 oz./250 gm Flaked barley
 2.5 gallons/12 litres water for "light ale" brewing
 2 oz./60 gm Goldings hops
 .75 oz.+ .75 oz./25 + 25 gm Northern brewer hops
 8 oz./250 gm Invert sugar
 1 tsp. Irish Moss
 2 oz./60 gm Brewers yeast
 .5 oz./15 gm Gelatine
 .5 tsp.per pint/5 ml per litre White Sugar (for priming)

 1) Raise temp. of water to 60'C and stir in crushed malts, while
stirring raise mash temp. to 66'C. Leave for 1.5 hours, 
occasionally returning temp. back to this value.
 2) Contain the mashed grain in a large grain bag to retrieve
sweet wort. Using slightly hotter water than mash, rinse the 
grains to collect 4 gallons/20 litres of extract.
 3) Boil the extract with Goldings and first quota of Northern
Brewer hops for 1.5 hours. Dissolve the main batch of sugar and
the Irish moss during last 10 min.
 4) Add second part of N.B. hops, strain wort and top up with
cold water to make 5 gallons/25 litres.
 5) 4-5 days in Primary, add gelatine, 7 days in Secondary,
10 days maturation.

     Pilsner Urquell (Pizenske Prazdo)

 7 lb.10oz./3.85 kg Crushed lager malt
 3 gallons/15 litres Water for "lager" brewing
 1 tsp. Irish moss
 2.5 +.5 +.25 oz./75 + 15 + 10 gm Saaz hops
 2 oz./60 gm Lager yeast
 .5 oz./15 gm Gelatine
 .5 tsp.per pint/5 ml per liter White sugar

 1) Raise temp. of water up to 45'C and stir in crushed malt,
while stirring raise mash temp. to 55'C, leave for .5 hours.
Then raise temp. to 66'C, leave for 1 hour, occasionally
returning temp. to 66'C.
 2) Contain the mashed grain in a large grain bag to retrieve
sweet wort. Using slightly hotter water than mash, rinse grains
to collect 4 gallons/20 litres of extract.
 3) Boil the extract with first quota hops for 1.5 hours, pitch
Irish moss 10 min. before the end.
 4) Add 2nd batch of hops, strain off the clear wort and top
up with cold water to make 4 gallons/20 litres.
 5) Pitch yeast when cool. Ferment until gravity falls to 1015
and rack into secondary adding the dry hops before fitting 
airlock.
 6) Leave for 21 days before racking to bottles, allow 30
days maturation.

     Unfortunately I have not tried either of these recipes,
so I can not say how successful they are. The only thing that
seems a bit odd to me is the quantity of yeast, 60 GRAMS!
     Good luck, let me know how they turn out.

- --
      "Come my lad, and drink some beer!"
                                           Aaron Shaw
                                           Ottawa, Canada

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Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 14:46:47 -0700 (MST)
From: CJORGENSEN at cc.weber.edu
Subject: Root Beer

It seems to me that y'all are making the whole rootbeer issue way too
complicated.  I have had great success in using grocery-store variety yeast.
Granted, there is always a little yeast flavor--more if you don't pour 
carefully so as to not stir up the sediment--but that is one of the pleasures
of home-made IMHO.  Another option is to use a _tough_ sealable container and
some dry ice.  I have used milk cans with boy scouts sitting on top for
ballast.  The results are fine and the process is more than fun.

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Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 16:09:05 -0500
From: shaver at healthcare.com (Dave Shaver)
Subject: Who is the keeper of the Brewpub Database?


I find the brewpub database quite useful and I have some updates and
comments to add.  Who is the keeper of the database?

/\  Dave Shaver
\\  Plano, TX
\/  Internet: shaver at healthcare.com

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Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 15:14:51 -0700
From: Steve Christiansen <steven at sequent.com>
Subject: propane cookers

I would like to increase my brewing capacity to 10 gallon batches
using a converted keg for a kettle.  Obviously when I do, my electric
stove won't cut it any more, so I've been looking at propane cookers.
I have a bunch of questions I hope somebody can help me with.

How many BTUs are enough?  I need enough heat to bring 12 gallons of
150F runnings to boiling by the time the sparge is done, but I don't
want to burn up mass quantities of gas generating more heat than I need.

I've seen two brands of big cookers in local discount stores, the
170,000 BTU King Kooker, and a 140,000 BTU cooker from Camp Chef (#SH-140L).
Any pros or cons about these?  They appear to have similar burners,
but different frames.  The King Kooker has a large ring above the burner,
apparently to keep the pot from sliding off, but I would think it would be
hard to put a keg on it.  The Camp Chef looks sturdier, but I don't know
if it's wide enough to support a keg.  (What is the diameter of the bottom
ring of a Sankey keg anyway?  Could somebody run out and measure theirs
and let me know?)

Any other cooker info would be appreciated.  I don't want to make a mistake
with this.  The thought of a keg full of boiling wort turning into a loose
cannon scares the stuffing out of me.

Steven Christiansen
Beaverton, OR
steven at sequent.com


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Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 18:39:18 EDT
From: jwc at med.unc.edu (John W. Carpenter)
Subject: Homebrew Supply Shops in VA Beach

My brother came to visit me this past weekend, and we brewed a batch. I
think he is interested in starting. He lives in the VA Beach area and was
wondering if there are any Homebrew supply stores around there. Does
anyone know of one (or more)? Thanks in advance.

John Carpenter

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Date: 13 Jun 94 18:58:05 EDT
From: Don Rudolph <76076.612 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Yeast Starters / Sparge Temp

On using hops in yeast starters:

Yes.  For four reasons (not necessarily in order).  
(1) Hop resins are supposed to inhibit bacteria, this item has already
been mentioned.
(2) I like the smell when I'm making the starter, don't you?
(3) I get to use left-over pellet/leaf hops that might not be in top 
shape to dump into the next brew.
(4) Empirically, starters made with hops are clearer than those made
without hops (Speculating ... polyphenols from the hops aid in the 
hot/cold break?)


On the disparagement on sparges:

I normally sparge with 165-170F water into a picnic cooler tun.  I
try to do a mash out, but usually succeed in getting to 160F max.  By
the time I am done recirculating the runnings, the grain bed temp is
at 150F or less.  Even with 170F sparge water, the bed never got above
155F.

After reading the debate, I decided to experiment with boiling sparge
water.   On my last batch, I brought the sparge water to a boil, struck
the kettle from the heat and began sparging.  I monitored the grain bed
temp every five minutes or so.  BTW, I use a copper sparge "arm" (tubing
configured into a coil with holes drilled in the bottom).  At the end of
the sparge (45 minutes), here were the "data points" (as the HBD'ers say):

	Recipe:	Kolsch, 7.5 lb Belgium Pils, 1 lb Wheat, 4 oz 40L crystal
		Mash in  at  122F, Maltose rest  at  142F, Sacc. rest  at  153F
		Mash out  at  157F.  No mineral additions.

		
					Start		End
					-----		---
	Sparge water		:	210F		180F		
	Water above grain bed	:	160F		170F
	Grain bed		:	145F		165F
	pH			:	5.2		5.5
	Iodine test		:	Negative	Negative
	Specific Gravity	:	Unknown		1.012

I was willing to try this on my precious brew because having experience
with decoction mashes, I was fairly certain I would not leach too much 
tannin and unconverted starch into the run off.

Extraction efficiency did seem marginally better than previous batches,
I haven't run the calculations, but my final gravity was 1.046 for 5.75
gallons, I would normally expect 1.044-45.  Don't read much into this,
there are too many other factors affecting extraction efficiency to make
a conclusion one way or another.

Will I do it again?  Yes, not because of increased efficiency (although it
is a bonus), but because it is more convenient to boil the sparge water
and NOT WORRY about getting the temp to 168F and keeping it there.

Don Rudolph
Seattle, WA
76076.712 at Compuserve.com



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Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 19:48:58 EDT
From: KMYH09A at prodigy.com ( LARRY KELLY)
Subject: Bottle Head Space?

I was looking through some back issues of HBD and could not find some
straight forward recommendations for how much head space to leave when bottling.

Any one have any answers?

I use 12oz, 16oz and 22oz Grolsh type bottles.

Larry
KMYH09A at prodigy.com


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Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 19:49:04 EDT
From: KMYH09A at prodigy.com ( LARRY KELLY)
Subject: What is Belgium Biscuit Grain?

My local supply store has a grain called "Belgium Biscuit". What is it and
what beer types is it used in.

Larry
KMYH09A at prodigy.com


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Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 17:55:18 pst
From: wyatt at Latitude.COM
Subject: Cylindroconical Fermenters

     Hi All!
     
        Has anyone used, priced, seen or heard any information on 
     cylindroconical fermenters.  The smallest I have heard of is 1/2 
     barrel.  They seem to be a pretty good idea but I imagine that they 
     are quite expensive.  They all seem to be temperature controlled, 
     which would help to reserve the refrigerator for lagering.  I have 
     seen extremely large ones in large brewpubs but never one this small.  
     I plan to check them out but I thought I would get some input first.  
     Any info would be greatly appreciated. TIA.
     
                                                Wyatt

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Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 20:40:30 EDT
From: KMYH09A at prodigy.com ( LARRY KELLY)
Subject: Apple or Strawberry Beer Recipe NEEDED!!

Does anyone out there have an All Grain recipe on making an Apple or a
Strawberry beer recipe??

If so can you email me it RIGHT AWAY!!!!!!

I got a friends suprise birthday party coming up next month

Also I do not want a dark type beer, a lighter or amber color is fine, but
not dark.

Larry
KMYH09A at prodigy.com


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Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 12:04:20 +1000 (EST)
From: David Draper <David.Draper at mq.edu.au>
Subject: Twistoffs/SUDS

Whud id iz: In #1448, Al added to the ongoing twistoff thread, which
prompts me to recount my recent positive experiences with them.  Many
weeks back I asked the Digestives for feedback, and got a mixed response,
with about 60% in favor and 40% (some vehemently) against.  I tried a few
in my first batch since re-starting operations after arriving here, and
they were all fine. So tried a few more in the next, and then more in the
next, and so on.  So far (about 200 bottles all told) one (1) has leaked. 
I no longer worry about how many crown-seals I have empty and ready to
use--I just bottle with whatever is to hand.  BTW, I use regular crown
seals, not special twistoff style, and a 2-arm pull down capper.  The only
downside is that it takes a bit of practice to get the motion down to seal
the twistoff properly--the pull-down action will not go to completion in
one go.  I pull down one of the arms, which seals about a third of the
circumference of the cap, then rotate the bottle and repeat twice. At the
end, you can clearly see the "threaded" or "rifled" look to the side of
the cap--compare to a commercial twistoff and they should look the same. 
This takes about 5-10 times as long as using a regular crown seal (ie 5-10
seconds instead of 1).  Sorry if this description is opaque, it's not easy
to put into words.  Don't mean to dispute Al's comments, only adding a
couple data points.

Bill Rust characterizes SUDS as basically a record-keeping program.  I
would disagree, this is much more applicable to BrewHaHa--did you refer to
SUDS by mistake, Bill?.  With SUDS, recipe formulation is well-provided
for, calculating estimates of OG, ABV, IBUs, and color for one-button
comparison to the current AHA guidelines.  I won't waste space with more
description, but it does many other things too.  The most recent version,
which addresses some bugs in the previous edition (including catering for
us metric types, thanks Michael), has just been put on the sierra server. 
BrewHaHa is a computerized brew notebook, and a very good one.  It is also
FREE.  Both programs perform as advertised.  My *personal preference* is
for SUDS because it keeps records well enough for me and has the added
bonus of formulation modules. Standard disclaimer applies, just a
satisfied user who has happily just put a check in the mail for the
shareware fee for SUDS. 

Cheers, Dave in Sydney
- -- 
******************************************************************************
David S. Draper			School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University
ddraper at laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au	NSW 2109 Sydney, Australia
Fax: +61-2-805-8428		Voice: +61-2-805-8347

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Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 14:31:57 +1000
From: ANDY WALSH <awalsh at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: temps again

Once again I am a few issues late with this - I am sure you will
all forgive me. Last time I was late it caused me to write one too
many responses - oops. This time I have sparged my brain
with 170F water, so I am less hot-headed and my ramblings
have a less astringent nature!

John Pratte writes:

>  Heat is energy; in fact, it is the energy 
> transferred between objects of different temperature.  Temperature, 
>on the other hand, is simply the property of an object; namely, the 
>property that two objects have in common when no heat is being 
>transferred between them.

Now I im joost an ingenoor, but I am certain I learned that temperature
is a measure of heat energy in my physics lectures. This a minor point,
but the equation
H=m.S.(T2-T1)

S=specific heat constant of material
H=heat energy 
m=mass of object
T2-T1=temperature differential

may be rewritten (substituting T1=0 Kelvin) gives

T2=H/(m.S)

0 Kelvin is by definition that temperature at which objects have 0 
energy. Thus the temperature of an object  (in Kelvin) is an indication
of the heat energy of the object. Any comments? This should be of
no concern to the homebrewer, but I thought I'd mention it in passing.
 
>If you keep the lid on your sparging apparatus 
>(apparatii), you should be able to minimize convective heat losses, 
>meaning that the primary method of heat loss is by conduction.

Some may be like me and find it difficult to put the lid over the top of
your sparging equipment (I use Phil's sparging system). I have found
a thick  towel helps to minimise this loss.
The equation John later mentions I think brewers will find little use for. 
In theory it is possible to derive exactly the optimum temperature and
sparge rate for a given homebrewery, but in practice there are too 
many variables to the average system and it is far easier to 
"close the loop" as we engineers say and chuck a thermometer in
the thing and manually adjust your variables until your desired temperature
is reached.
This brings me to the point of this post. How accurate are these laboratory
type mercury thermometers (mine is all glass, calibrated in 1 degree intervals
from about  -10C to 110C) How do you know what the real temperature
is and where and how to measure it?
I live at sea level. I have tried "calibrating" a number of thermometers by 
sticking
them in boiling water. I have used wort, tap water and charcoal filtered tap 
water with
similar results. The tap water here in Sydney is pretty soft, pH=7, but I have 
not
contacted the water board for an analysis.
All thermometers used (3 of them) read water boiling at 105C (thereabouts) 
instead of
100C. The thermometers are supposedly accurate to 0.5C. I measure with the bulb 
immersed in the boiling liquid, the themometer dangling against the metal 
sides, with
the cover on the pot. What is happening here? Is the metal pot at a greater 
temperature
than the liquid and conducting through the glass to the mercury? Even if I 
dangle
just the very tip into an uncovered boiling pot the temperature reads 102C or 
so.
This raises a number of points:
 - presumably there is a "standard technique" for temperature measurement I am 
not
following correctly. If so, what is it?
 - are the thermometers inaccurate?
 -does wort boil at a higher or lower temperature than water (or the same?). I 
know that
salty solutions have a higher boiling point, but what is your average wort?

In any case there is obviously a problem here. I know that if I have seen it, 
many others
will have it too, without even realising. It is easy to just believe what that 
thermometer tells
you without question. When 1C can make a difference to your mash  you need to
be sure your mash is at the temperature you think it is.
I am sure someone can shed some light on this.

 
Andy Walsh









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Date: Mon, 13 Jun 1994 13:32:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Frane <gummitch at teleport.com>
Subject: A Retraction in re: rings

In a recent Digest, I stuck my foot in it by declaiming that bottle neck
rings were a definite sign of contamination.  Charlie Gow was the first
(and definitely not the last) to point out the hole in my adamantine
statement -- the possibility of rings being a result of wort priming.

I confess it didn't occur to me, since I've only run across the
relationship of wort priming and rings a couple of times in the HBD and
nowhere else.  I bottled that way a few times, years ago, and had no
problems.  But, a couple of people have reported the same and I now see
a reference to it in Dave Miller's book:

   "A minor disadvantage is that bottle fermentation may throw a ring of
   yeast and and hop resins around the necks of your bottles; this is
   purely cosmetic but may lead judges to conclude that your beer is
   infected before they ever taste it." p 170

So, mea culpa.  

- --Jeff



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Date: Mon, 13 Jun 94 11:08:10 -0400
From: kit.anderson at acornbbs.com
Subject: Zoological zymurgy


TO: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com

'Zoological Zymurgy'
or Brewing With Live Animals
by Kit Anderson

Throughout brewing history, somebody has always managed to add something 
extra to the 
mash tun or boiling kettle in order to come up with a beer that pushed 
the envelope. Being 
a grain beverage, you can find references that every known grain has 
been used in beer. 
For added flavor, most herbs, spices, and fruit have been tried. Bold 
moves, yes. But 
limited to vegetable matter.
 Little has been written about the varied protein sources available on 
this planet that have 
been under utilized in the brewing process. I am referring, of course, 
to the animal 
kingdom. I am not talking the minor amount of bee parts found in honey. 
We need to 
discuss intentionally adding animals to beer. And because we are always 
concerned with 
sanitation and freshness, live animals are necessary. After all, who 
would want a second 
sip of a 'Rigor Mortis Porter'. A buzzard perhaps, but not humans.
One of the only writers to mention animals is Charlie Papazian who wrote 
of a beer 
described by Edwaed Spencer in 1899 that used a rooster in secondary. 
Charlie also made 
a reference to adding horseflesh to stout. He didn't pursue this enough. 
It might have been 
a fining agent. He did give a recipe for 'Goat Scrotum Ale' in TNCJOHB. 
But in looking 
at the ingredients, one could not find a reference to goat. 
I first became interested in 'zoological zymurgy' while reading 
Jackson's 'Beer Companion'. 
He wrote of people in the British Isles becoming enamored with drinking 
stout while 
eating oysters.  After downing a few, some science major probably began 
dropping oysters 
in his stout. This practice caught on and several breweries started 
adding oysters to their 
stouts. Pike Place Brewery in Seattle attempted to resurrect this style, 
but they used 
granulated oysters and the flavor was too 'oystery'. I decided to try it 
since these are two 
of my favorite foods.  I split a five gallon batch of a dry stout. One 
half pint of freshly 
shucked (live) Pemaquid, Maine oysters went into secondary. The control 
stout finished 
fermenting a full week before the oysters. At bottling, I added 1/4 
pound of lactose to give 
a little more mouth feel.
"What's it like?", you ask. Well, you can smell it when you open the 
bottle. Initially, you 
can't taste it. But let it warm on your tongue ...just a little. There 
is a slight tingling. 
Swallow. There it is! 'Red Tide Stout'! The fabulous frenetic flavor of 
fermented filter 
feeders frolics on your pharynx. The after taste is the same as after a 
round of smoked 
oysters. Is it good? Yes! Can you drink a lot of this? No. But I don't 
pound kreik lambic 
all night either. A perfect cigar beer.
Paul White of the 'Brew Free or Die' Homebrew Club in New Hampshire 
likes to brew 
Belgian ales. The following is from their newsletter.
"The perfect garnish for Belgian ales is a spider. When bottling, use 1 
spider per six pack, 
or 1 in every 3 quarts. They are great for perking up a party- everyone 
checks their glasses 
and conversations pick up.
The first thing you need to do is catch the appropriate size spiders. 
This is easier than you 
think. Choose a spot in your house that spiders like to roam, like a 
basement, closet, 
porch, attic, or out in the garage. Next, sanitize and air dry 12 or 
more beer bottles. Twist 
off are OK. Set the bottles in your chosen trapping area. Check Weekly. 
If you don't have 
any luck is 3-4 weeks, change hunting grounds.
Once you have a spider in a bottle, move it to a warm, sunny window 
sill. Do not feed or 
water the spider. This would make the spider too big and slow down the 
drying process.
When dry, shake the finished product into a mason jar along with a 
packet of silica gel that 
came with the last piece of electronic equipment you bought. Voila! You 
have dried 
spiders ready for use. Don't worry about legs that fall off. Most people 
won't notice. 
Pieces and parts can be used in the boil and whole units for bottling. 
Store your spiders 
next to the eye of newt.
If you keg your beer, add a spider to the glass before filling. These 
tend to be crispier than 
bottle conditioned."
The above examples have used animals intentionally. In science, however,  
the unexpected 
sometimes becomes your result.  Genius comes into play when the you 
realize an accident 
is actually a major discovery. Such as with Maine Ale and Lager Tasters 
president Brews 
Stevens' lambic. Brews brewed up a 15 gallon batch of cloudy wheat beer 
and put it into 
three five gallon buckets in the basement of his vintage home. The 
joists are carefully hung 
with spider webs duplicating Leifman's brewery in Belgium. He left the 
covers off and 
allowed chance to do the wild thing with his brew. After three weeks, he 
discarded one 
bucket with brown scum on it while the other two held a healthy looking 
white fuzz. 
A bunch of us were sipping the result (an outstanding cassis lambic) as 
Brews related this 
tale. At bottling time, Brews noticed an area of gray fuzz in the head 
of one of the 
buckets. So, he scooped out what he thought was a minor area of mold. It 
turned out to 
be a field mouse. Brews said, "He had a smile on his face, though!" We 
all laughed and 
said it was too bad that the batch was ruined. "Ruined!", exclaimed 
Brews. "I put ten 
pounds of black currants to it!" 
After a moment of silence...we looked down at our glasses.... looked at 
Brews...Naw....Yeah!! Someone, I don't remember who, passed 'Mouseketeer 
Cassis 
Lambic' through his nose. I hadn't seen that trick since Ronnie Farr 
shot milk out his nose 
after watching Mundo Gorgis eat his own ear wax in second grade. We all 
watched and 
took another sip. Hmm. None of that typical rodent after taste. 
More silence. "You know what living organisms do when they die?", asked 
Dr. Tom, our 
club physician. "They void their bowels and bladder." We looked at our 
glasses....looked 
at Dr. Tom...looked at Brews...took another sip. Hmm. None of that 
typical rodent-after 
after taste.
- ---
~ CMPQwk #1.4~ UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY

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Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 09:08:55 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Infection Rings; Lovibond

As I understand it, the L rating of grains & other wort additives is
computed as follows:

for L in 0-10: rating is based on the color (absorbance at a
particular wavelength) of 1 lb in 1 gallon of water.

L in 10-100: Compute L for 0.1 lb in 1 gallon, multiply by 10.

L above 100: Computer L for 0.01 lb in 1 gallon, multiply by 100.

Thus, if there is any non-linearity at all, one would expect DISTINCT
breaks at 10 and 100.  Indeed Manning's curve shows this sort of
behavior.

Of course, I may have totally misunderstood what I read....

=S

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Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 09:13:37 EDT
From: Allan Rubinoff <rubinoff at BBN.COM>
Subject: YeastLabs European Lager yeast

In HBD #1449, rpyle1 at ef2007.efhd.ford.com (Robert Pyle) writes:

>I pitched one package of rehydrated European Lager dry yeast and kept
>the fermenter in my dining room at about 70 deg. F for about 18 hours.
>I then racked into a carboy and put into my freezer at 57 deg. F last
>night.  I plan to drop the temperature 5 degrees per day to 45 degrees
>and ferment there until completion.

I mostly brew English ales, and during the winter the temperature in my
apartment was too cold for ale yeast.  Since I use dry yeast, I decided
to try the YeastLab European Lager, which seems to be the only dry lager
yeast available.  I've heard the warnings about lager yeast not being
able to withstand the rigors of the drying process, but I decided to
give it a shot anyway.

I brewed two batches with this yeast and they turned out fine.  One of
them, a brown "ale," was quite good, though a little dry.

In the Summer '94 Zymurgy, Patrick Weix has a published a chart of
information on various yeast strains.  He says that this yeast is
supposed to produce a clean lager, and that it should be fermented
between 60 and 70 degrees.  That temperature range doesn't sound right
for lager yeast.  So what gives?  Anybody know anything more about this
yeast?  Is it actually a lager yeast?  If so, has YeastLab figured out a
way to dry lager yeast without harming it?

Thanks,

Allan Rubinoff <rubinoff at bbn.com>

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Date: Tue, 14 Jun 94 09:23:50 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Skunks

Now we know the real reason for lids on German beer mugs.  To keep the
beer from skunking while you quaff in the Biergarten!

=S

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Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 07:58:29 -0400
From: ryancr at allspice.jsan.gtefsd.com (Rich Ryan)
Subject: shipping damage


>Jack said,

>The "manufacturer" (that's me)  received complete restitution from UPS for 
> the damage and to imply that it was an "initial" attempt to slough off 
> production problems on shipping damage is less than unkind.

That's funny, I had a feeling you would say that. At least you staying with
the same story you told him. I'm glad you've cleared up your production
problems.

Rich Ryan
ryancr at allspice.jsan.gtefsd.com


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Date: Tue, 14 Jun 1994 09:25:30 -0500
From: Hart at actin.rutgers.edu (Ron Hart)
Subject: yeast starters

Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com> writes:
>I have always blindly, unthinkingly used some hops when making up my yeast
>starters.  The question is "why bother?".
>...
>So let's start a thread, who hops their yeast starters and why?

I wondered the same thing.  Like Domenick, I have access to regular lab
glassware, autoclaves, etc., so I figured I'd just use more standard
culturing methods.  Why bother with hops when they're not needed to keep
the yeast happy?  So I make my starter with light DME and Difco Yeast
Extract similar to Domenick's recipe, then autoclave for 30 minutes.  I use
2 lit culture flasks, which have "fingers" around the bottom edge of the
flask for aeration, and a metal culture cap. There is no real danger of
contamination.

I begin my cultures from agar plates made from LB+0.2% glucose by picking a
single colony with a sterile loop into a 250 ml culture flask containing 50
ml LB+0.2% glucose (BTW, LB is a standard, rich bacterial medium.  I add
glucose since yeasts like extra sugar). This is grown overnight in a 30C
shaking incubator.  Then it is pitched into the 500-1000 ml DME culture
described above.  It's again incubated with shaking 30C overnight.  By this
time, it's foamy, with visible yeast settling when the shaking stops, and
it smells distinctly of freshly-baked bread.

So that's my method, which I realize might be kind of hard for real
homebrewers.  But my question is about the aeration.  My starter cultures
are grown _very_ aerobically, then pitched.  I've always assumed that since
I can keep my cultures sterile right up to pitching, this would be an
advantage, building up stores of sterols (according to Fix).  This works
very well, with my fermentation beginning quickly and smoothly (hardly ever
any foaming-over).  Does the fact that the starter is aerobic bother
anyone?

Ron Hart
Department of Biological Science, Rutgers University Newark
hart at actin.rutgers.edu



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1450, 06/15/94