HOMEBREW Digest #1461 Tue 28 June 1994
Digest #1460
Digest #1462
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Newbie Questions: Bottle Autolysis & Yeast rate? (Brian Thomas Mcgovney)
O2 Eating Bottlecaps (JEFF GUILLET)
apple pie brew, CO2 levels (Brian Bliss)
AHA Competition (BrewerBob)
Flexible hose / surplus house (Jim_Merrill)
Hangovers (jfunk)
Brewpubs in Houston? ("William F. Cook")
33 Real Quarts (Steve Scampini)
apple flavored ale.. (U-E68882-John Bloomberg)
Hubcap brewpub (Art Steinmetz)
Making Mead (Bill Rust)
Re: Sterile filtration & O2 (Jim Busch)
Re: Unauthorized user "DAVID BROWN at MacMail" (Network_Manager)
Re: Chiller and ice water (Bill Szymczak)
Why use a Lauter Tun? ("Palmer.John")
O2 scrubbing, preboil? keg definitions, 8.16 gal. (Nancy.Renner)
Colorado Brewer's Festival (John Adams)
Distribution list (Jaime Raigoza)
AHA and other alleged resources (Tom Baier)
Re: Getting Beer through US Customs (David Arnold)
white ring in bottle neck/dry hopping/apple beer (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
musings and a grits question (Gary Rich)
Dr. Lewis and his failed brewpub (Ken Michael Johnson)
St. Pat's 5 gallon kegs ("Lehnherr, Pat J.")
St. Pat's again ("Lehnherr, Pat J.")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 00:06:38 -0700
From: Brian Thomas Mcgovney <eapu292 at orion.oac.uci.edu>
Subject: Newbie Questions: Bottle Autolysis & Yeast rate?
Hi all! I just brewed my first batch, a dark extract porter. Had my
first bottle last night, and it was GOOD, reminds me of the Sierra
Nevada Porter i used to drink in Santa Cruz. *However,* I have
two burning questions whoch I can't seem to find the answers to in
either Papazian's fine book or the one issue (Summer '94) of
Zymurgy in my possession. Detecting a high signal to noise ratio
over the last month on this list (perhaps the highest on the entire
net), I'd like to ask them here.
1. How long can my beer stay in bottles at room temperature? I know
the Papazian book says it's *ready* in 10-14 days, but do I
have to worry about autolysis at some point? This is an
important question, as the space in my small renter's fridge is
at a premium. FYI: It was a single stage fermentation and there
is a definite white sediment in each bottle.
2. The Zymurgy issue I have refers to a typical dry yeast pitching
rate of 14 g per 5 gal., or about two packets. I used 7 g, and
have an Apparent Attenuation of 62%. Zymurgy says typical App.
Att. values range between 67-77%. Is mine low enough to be
worrisome? Is the low pitching rate the cause of the low App.Att.?
FYI: O.G. = 1.058; F.G. = 1.022. From lack of knowing any better,
I handled the yeast in a thouroghly boneheaded fashion, throwing
it into the carboy sans any rehydration at all - DOH! Could this
be a factor as well? (I expect yes.)
Corrollary to 2. Do y'all REALLY use 14 g yeast per 5. gallon batch?
As these are obvoiusly newbie questions, feel free to e-mail rather
than post the answers. Thanks in advance, and merry brewing!
_________________________________________________________________
* Brian McGovney *
* Chemistry Department, UC Irvine, Irvine, CA 92717 *
* chemist at io.com eapu292 at orion.oac.uci.edu *
_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 04:45:00 GMT
From: jeff.guillet at lcabin.com (JEFF GUILLET)
Subject: O2 Eating Bottlecaps
Oh, great... Like we need something *ELSE* to worry about. I was reading
The Celebrator Beer News and came across this story about oxygen absorbing
bottlecaps.
The author (Mark Garetz) starts the story by explaining to the brewfully
challenged that after initial aeration, O2 is not a good thing for beer
and explains why. He then goes on to say:
"But you might be surprised to learn that air can get into the bottle
after it's capped. Huh? Doesn't the positive pressure of the CO2
keep the air out? That's what I thought too, but I got the full
story from Charles Benedict at Advanced Oxygen Technologies (AOT).
"The material used as a liner in the beer cap (more correctly called
the crown) is a good CO2 barrier. But since nitrogen and oxygen
molecules are smaller, they can get through the material. They do
this regardless of the pressure inside the bottle through a process
called diffusion. So after a few months there will be a significant
amount of nitrogen and oxygen in the beer that wasn't there to begin
with. Nitrogen doesn't cause any problems, but we know what O2 does.
"Researchers at Zapata (a major crown manufacturer) and AOT tried to
solve the problem by making a liner material that was a barrier.
While successful in the lab, the material was not practical for volume
production. Then they thought of binding an oxygen-absorbing material
into the plastic liner and this eventually proved quite successful."
"... (Oxygen absorbing caps) do cost a bit more than standard caps,
but they may be worth it if you're planning on keeping a beer in bottles
for a long time or to give you that extra edge in a competition. (A
national judge told me that entries were stale and oxidized because of
the six-month lag between the due date for the prelims and the finals.)"
This kinda doesn't make sense to me. If you take a gas-permeable balloon
and "inflate" it completely with liquid would you find air bubbles in
it after a few months from air diffusing into the balloon?
Also, the caps don't work indefinitely. They first absorb the O2 in
the headspace of the bottle. Are we to believe that still are able to
absorb the "significant amount of O2" that diffuses into the bottle?
Sorry about the long post, but inquiring minds want to know.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Jeff Guillet - San Francisco, CA - <j.guillet at lcabin.com>
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing..."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
* SPEED 1.40 [NR] * ARRRRRGGGHHH!!!! ... Tension breaker, had to be done.
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 03:19:52 -0500
From: bliss at pixel.convex.com (Brian Bliss)
Subject: apple pie brew, CO2 levels
zoz at cs.adelaide.edu.au writes:
>|> Has anybody used the spices that are used in a apple pie
>|> (nutmeg, cinnamon, allspice, and apples) to make a apple
>|> pie ale? I thought it might have a good taste but I am not
>|> sure If I want to experiment with a full batch of something like
>|> that.
>
>I thought about brewing an apple pie ale before, with a recipe something like:
>
>1.5 kg pale male extract syrup
>1 kg pale DME
>200 g crystal malt
>1 cup brown sugar
>1 cup molasses
>25 g Fuggles hops (finishing)
>5 g cinnamon
>2 kg apple puree
forget the apple puree, molasses, and brown sugar. use ~5-6 light DME,
stay with .5 - l lb crystal malt, and gput fuggles in for the entroe boil
(or maybe leave it out entirely). use the new wyeast london ale yeast,
and drop the yeast out after the initial fermentation, ala-english-bitters
style, to leave that green-apple flavor (acetaldehyde). dry hop with styrian
goldings. I've made many a recipe like that that tastes like apple juice.
dropping out the yeast is the key, and the morris-handbury styrian goldings
hop plugs accentuate the "apple juice" flavor. normally I use an oz or 2
of fuggles for the boil, but I've never tried spicing it, so it may need
to be sweeter (though fuggles is pretty low AA, and my brews are still
pretty sweet). I'm thinking of trying something similar with a mead...
>However, my brother seemed to think that rather than an apple taste, this
>would taste like cider mixed with beer, which we both find unpleasant.
yep. apples in beer don't produce an apple flavor - drop the yeast out
early with finings or refrigeration (or both).
- ------------------------------
> In HBD #1459 Alan_Deaton_at_CTC at relay.aar.com says:
>
> The headspace in your bottle is mostly gaseous. This makes it relatively
> easy to compress. As your yeasties produce carbon dioxide, the pressure
> in your bottle increases. When the pressure becomes too high, your
> yeast can no longer produce carbon dioxide( nowhere to put it ). This
> means that if you leave no headspace in your bottles, the yeast won't be
> able to produce very much CO 2 before the pressure in the bottle causes
> them to become inactive. If the headspace is too large, then the yeast
> can produce quantities of CO 2 inappropriately large for a 12 oz. bottle
> of beer.( this can cause excessive foaming upon opening and I have HEARD
> it can actually create bottle bombs )
I don't know about the "feedback" to the yeast, but your reasoning about
the headspace is incorrect. 1 litre of beer at a given psi/temp will
actually hold more than 1 of litre CO2 gas at the same psi/temp, beleive it
or not. this is intuitively non-obvious.
bb
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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 06:45:06 EDT
From: BrewerBob at aol.com
Subject: AHA Competition
Would someone that is a member of Compuserve please be kind enough to go to
the Beer & Wine Forum and check the results of the AHA competition. I have
final entries in the Brown Porter (Catagory 9b) and the Traditional German
Bock (Catagory 12a).
Although I don't expect a win, I certainly hope I do well enough to finish in
the running, so to speak. I would be grateful if a Compuserve member could
and would check for me. Email response is fine. Thank you.
BrewerBob at aol.com (Bob Davis)
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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 7:42 EDT
From: Jim_Merrill at vos.stratus.com
Subject: Flexible hose / surplus house
Two quick questions...
Does anyone have a source for a flexible, high temp (200+) food
grade hose ?
Does anyone know of a surplus house located in MA, NH, or RI ?
(I'm looking for a SS magnetic driven pump and would like to buy one
used if possible.)
TIA
Jim Merrill
Jim_Merrill at VOS.Stratus.com
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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 08:33:49 EST
From: jfunk at mail.casi.sti.nasa.gov
Subject: Hangovers
With regards to the current string floating around the digest concerning how to
cope with or prevent hangovers :DON'T DRINK SO MUCH.
Simple, but not TOO simple. Right?
Jim from Mars
Return to table of contents
Date: 27 Jun 94 09:26:08 EDT
From: "William F. Cook" <71533.2750 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Brewpubs in Houston?
This is my first post to the HBD, so my apologies if anything gets screwed up.
I will be in Houston, TX from July 1 through July 10, and was wondering if there
are any brewpubs or other sites/beers in the area which are worth
visiting/drinking. Thanx in advance for any info! (Send flames to /dev/null).
Bill Cook
HydroComp, Inc.
Team Dennis Conner
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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 9:44:22 EDT
From: Steve Scampini <scampini at hp-and.an.hp.com>
Subject: 33 Real Quarts
Simply put, I blew the calculation of volume of the 33 quart pot
as pointed out gently by numerous digesters. My mistake is so
silly that I can't reveal it (it has to do with dividing the
diameter by 2 to get the radius). So don't worry, your pot is
probably pretty close to 8.25 gallons also. Do worry however
about homebrew maiming brain cells...I never used to make misteaks.
Thanks, Steve Scampini
P.S. I've heard that Zima nows outsells winecoolers.
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 9:48:46 EDT
From: U-E68882-John Bloomberg <bloomberg_john at ae.ge.com>
Subject: apple flavored ale..
In response to:
|> Has anybody used the spices that are used in a apple pie
|> (nutmeg, cinnamon, allspice, and apples) to make a apple
|> pie ale?
I have had some ales that had a definate apple flavor to them.
However, I would imagine the fruity flavor is a yeast product
rather than the brewer using apples in the recipe. Is this true?
- -------------------------------------------------------------
I started homebrewing this past fall when the weather in Ohio
was much cooler. Now after two batches that yeilded a pretty
good product (made from extract) my house is beerless and I'm
thirsty. My problem is that I don't have a refrigerator or a
true basement to keep things cool during fermenting. About the
best I can hope for, without sending my power meter into orbit,
is a downstairs temperature of 75-76 degrees. Can I brew an
ale, porter, or anything else at these temperatures without fear
of off flavors? Are there any yeasts that produce a good beer
(assuming all else is well) at these temperatures?
Responses welcome on the net or private email.
John Bloomberg
bloomber at c0368.ae.ge.com
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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 09:53:37 -0400
From: Art Steinmetz <asteinm at pipeline.com>
Subject: Hubcap brewpub
Jason Sloan writes about the Hubcap restaruant/brewpub in
Dallas which just opened.
A joint called the Hubcap in Vail, CO advertises that
franchises are available. Wonder if this is one.
Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 94 22:18:00 -0640
From: bill.rust at travel.com (Bill Rust)
Subject: Making Mead
Greetings Brewers!
1) Douglas F. Trainor asks...
Fe> Also, I'm deliberating over making 1-3 gallons of mead. I
Fe> tried a commercial mead called Chaucer's and wasn't impressed at all.
Fe> Too sweet, thick and the flavor of cheap wine. Does homebrewed mead
Fe> turn out like this or is Chaucer's a poor example of GOOD mead?
I would like to answer with a referal to "The New Complete Joy of Homebrewing"
by Charlie Papazian. I recently brewed his Barkshack Gingermead and after
only two months it is smooth, delicious, and so clear it dazzles. It also had
a nice punch to it! With regards to Chaucer's (which I've also had), this was
as dry as a Brut champagne, and had many other flavor similarities. His
instructions for making mead are clear and simple, and he also provides an
interesting historical background. Let me recommend using WYeast dry mead
yeast for this. (BTW, it's liquid yeast for dry tasting mead)
2) Diacetyl Woes...
I've recently started kegging with a 'cornie' keg setup. It was also my first
time using a refrigerator for lagering. I made an Australian lager with
Cooper's extract. I primary fermented at 50 degrees F using WYeast - American
Lager for 1 week, then dropped the temp to 42 degrees F for a 4 week secondary
(this is because 42 is as low as I go with an Airstat.) I then force
carbonated to 2.6 atmospheres (16 psi approx) using the shake method. (NOTE:
after two days, I lowered the pressure and dispensed at 5 psi, and then left
the keg at that pressure for the remainder of the time.)
Now the problem, after about 3 weeks, I started to notice a distinct diacetyl
taste in the beer. Another two weeks and the diacetyl was overpowering.
Fortunately, that was only for the last 1/2 gallon in the keg. I have been
brewing with extracts for 5 years now and have NEVER had a this problem. Any
suggestions?
Salut.
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "Laurie got offended when I used the word 'puke' | BILL RUST |
| but to me, that's what her dinner tasted like. | Systems Analyst |
| | |
| | --=_=-- |
| | |
| JACK HANDEY | Shiloh, IL |
| Deep Thoughts | bill.rust at travel.com |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
- ---
~ SPEED 1.40 #1651 ~
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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 10:32:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Sterile filtration & O2
> Subject: More on Filters
>
> Interestingly I called the Filter Store yesterday looking for a 3 Micron.
> They said they made a .5, a 1, and a 5 micron filter. Further even THEY
> suggested that all "microns are not equal". They said that another
> dimension that one must consider is the EFFICIENCY of the filter, not
> just the size of the filtering medium. They suggested that their
> 5 micron (with 99.5% efficiency) probably provided the filtering
> results of most 3 microns....
Sounds like good advice from the people who should know.
> >>js..The .5 micron pleated filter from the Filter Store does a much better
> job but yeast and bacteria are not hard to find with a microscope in beer
> filtered >with it.
>
> >Not sure about microscopes, but the 5 micron pleated high efficiency cart
> sold by the filter store results in a polished, clear product. If 5 works
> this good, I cant imagine ever using a smaller one.
>
> You need to expand your imagination a little. For one thing, one might be
> interested in flora and fauna free beer, viz. pasturized.
Jack, are you admitting to having bacteria in your beers? And at levels that
are present after submicron filtration?
>
> Secondly, I have never used the 5 micron unit but the .5 does not leave a
> totally clear beer so I can only assume that the 5 would be even less so.
I think something is amiss in technique if submicron filtration is not
resulting in a brilliant, clear product. The Filter stores 5 micron , high
efficiency product will result in a very clear beer when properly used.
To do this correctly, one needs to cold condition the beer, and push the
beer through the filter at reasonable delivery pressure, say 5-10 psi.
Add additional CO2 in the filtered keg, if the pressure is too low.
It should also be noted that some taste panels have preferred unfiltered
pasteurized beers over the same sample that was submicron filtered (article
by Jim Koch, in the Brewery Planner).
>
> someone who had both would do a comparison. I did this on the string wound
> and on the .5 pleated and had a lot of fun but I have a hard time justifying
> buying something just to prove a point.
Comparing string wound filters to pleated ones is a waste of time. BTW,
I dont favor filtering as a normal part of homebrewing, its more work
than its usually worth( good malts and aging and technique can create
very clear beers).
>
> The way I tested them was to disolve a tbs of corn starch in a gallon of
> water and run this though various filters and compare the filtrate. Very
> interesting.
I guess corn starch is a good test if one if removing permenant starch
haze from a poorly made beer. I wonder how much this starch level has
to do with anything found in regular beer samples.
> Subject: Aquarium pump aeration
>
> In theory, it seemed like a good, simple idea to aerate
> wort. In practice, the pump managed to bubble the wort
> out the top in two minutes even in a 7 gallon fermenter.
Try splashing the wort into the bubbles to knock down the
foam.
Good brewing,
Jim Busch
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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 10:56:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Network_Manager at mm.cobb.ziff.com
Subject: Re: Unauthorized user "DAVID BROWN at MacMail"
From: Network Manager on Mon, Jun 27, 1994 10:55 AM
Subject: RE: Unauthorized user "DAVID BROWN at MacMail"
To: MERLIN::IN%"homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com"
David Brown no longer works here. If you're a contributor, please let me know
what journal you were working with and I'll point you in the right direction.
Thanks!
David Harpe
Network Manager
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 10:59:52 EDT
From: bszymcz%ulysses at relay.nswc.navy.mil (Bill Szymczak)
Subject: Re: Chiller and ice water
IN HBD1458 Dion Hollenbeck writes:
>I am currently using an immersion chiller and although I can drop the
>temp of my wort from 212F to 100F in about 20 min, it takes another 30
>min to get down to 75F because of the lack of temperature
>differential.
If the numbers you reported are accurate then your tap water must
be about 72.6F.
>For those of you who recirculate ice water through an immersion
>chiller, do you begin recirculation after using tap water, or do you
>use the ice water right away?
It is much better to use the ice water at the end. Actually it would
be best if you could use ice water for the entire time, but this would
require more ice. Lets suppose that after the temp was brought down to
100F, you began pumping in water at 32F. If you pumped at the same rate,
it would take you only 5 minutes 38 seconds to reduce the wort from 100F
to 75F. If, however, you used 32F water for the first 5 minutes 38
seconds, the temperature of the wort would have decreased from 212F
to 146F, and you would need another 42 minutes to reduce the
temperature to 75F using your 72.6F tap water. In summary
you can reduce your wort temp to 75F with your immersion chiller
in the following times
50 minutes - Using 72.6F water for entire time.
47.6 minutes - Using 32F water for first 5.6 minutes, then 72.6F.
25.6 minutes - Using 72.6F water for first 20 minutes, then 32F.
17.6 minutes - Using 32F water for the entire time.
>What quantity of ice and water do you use for cooling 5 gals of wort?
This depends on what your flow rate through the immersion chiller
was. In the above example you would need enough water at 32F
to last for 5.63 minutes. For each gallon of water at 72.6F you
will need about 0.4 gallons of ice which should be melted in the
water to yield 1.4 gallons of 32F water.
>For the thermodynamically adept in the audience, what would be an
>equation to determine how much ice water at what temp would take how
>long to cool how much hot wort?
The formula I used to analyse your immersion chiller was
T(t) = Ti + (T0 - Ti) * exp(-R*E*t)
where T(t) = the temperature of the wort at time t.
Ti = the inflow temperature of the water in the chiller.
T0 = the initial temperature of the wort.
R = the normalized flow rate of water through the
chiller (actual rate divided by volume of wort.)
E = the efficiency index of your chiller (E=1 means
the temperature of the water at the exit of the
chiller is the same as the wort, E=0 means
you forgot to immerse the chiller in the hot wort.)
Alternatively, the time required to reduce the temp from T0 to Tf is
given by solving for t.
-1 Tf-Ti
t = --- log (-----)
R*E T0-Ti
For your setup the product of R*E = 0.08134. You need to measure R
to determine your efficiency E explicitely. The amount of water at
Ti required would be
A = t * R * Volume of wort.
By the way, on my last batch I actually did pump ice water through
my immersion chiller and it worked great. No, I wasn't so
compulsive to actually measure the exact amounts used and my
efficiency, but I went from 100F to 68F in under 10 minutes.
Bill Szymczak
Gaithersburg, MD bszymcz at ulysses.nswc.navy.mil
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Date: 27 Jun 1994 08:00:27 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Why use a Lauter Tun?
Well that was a loaded question, wasn't it?
The question occured to me Saturday night when I was over at Gordan Biersch in
Pasadena having another Marzen. (Good Beer; don't know how true to style it is,
but its definitely a Good beer).
I was looking thru the glass (the window, that is) and asked the barkeep if the
one on the left with the hopper was the Mash tun (yep) and the other is...(the
Lauter tun). Which left me thinking that most brewerys I have toured have
seperate tuns for mashing and lautering, while most homebrewers (well, >33%)
using the same tun for Mashing/Lautering with very good results and, it seems
to me, better economics of time. Obviously, there must be a good reason for
having seperate tuns.
Would anyone be able to offer some insight into why large(r) scale breweries
use the seperate tuns? Do you know what the (grain/filter bed) system is for
large scale lautering? False bottom, perhaps?
-John Palmer MDA-SSD M&P palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com OR
palmer#d#john.ssd-hb_#l#15&22#r# at ssdgwy.mdc.com
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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 11:07:04 EDT
From: Nancy.Renner at um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: O2 scrubbing, preboil? keg definitions, 8.16 gal.
From *Jeff* Renner
Erik Speckman points out a mechanism that I hadn't considered in the "CO2
scrubbing out dissolved O2" thread: dissolved O2 diffusing into the CO2
bubbles which carry it away. Thanks for pointing that out. It's a neat bit
of reasoning that I will retain. I suspect that in fermenting wort,
however, that will never have a chance to occur. I think the yeast will
probably metabolize the O2 before the CO2 gets to saturation.
- ----------
Phil Brushaber doesn't want to preboil his water, but it's tasting of
chlorine now that it's summer, and he feels that since he does a full wort
boil anyway, won't that take care of the problem? Not necessarily, Phil.
You should get the chlorine out first to avoid the formation of
chlorophenols when you boil the wort. These nasty tasting guys are
noticeable in the ppb range and, I think, are suspected of being
carcinogenic as well. Try letting the water sit overnight; the chlorine
should outgas.
- ----------
Sean Rooney confesses: he is keg illiterate. The barrel-shaped keg you
bought, Sean, is one of the old style Golden Gate, Hoff-Stevens or similar
kegs (I don't know the subtle differences). Some breweries still use them.
They are tough to convert to boilers, etc, because you have to weld shut the
hole in the side, but it's been done. I'll leave that part of your question
to someone with experience.
But as for definitions you wanted: a Sankey keg is the new (15 yrs?)
cylindrical keg. Among their advantages is that they need no wooden bung to
seal them since they have only one opening for filling and tapping, and they
are more convenient to tap. Their cylindrical shape makes them easier to
roll, too (see below). They are sealed with a ball valve and draw tube
device that the breweries never remove. They just inject hot caustic and
rinse, but homebrewers usually remove them for cleaning (and dry hopping).
A Sankey tap is the device that fits into the sealed opening to depress the
steel ball and allow beer to be drawn and CO2 injected. (I have also seen
the seal/draw tube called a tap, and have called it that myself. There must
be better a better term for this.)
A pony keg is the term for the old 1/8 barrel, or 3-7/8 gallon keg. They
are almost extinct, although the Stevens Point Brewery in Wisc. at least
recently would fill them on special order. They told me that the few they
sold were mostly during haying and harvest seasons, when farmers would put
them out in the field for the help! Some people call 1/4 bbl. kegs pony
kegs, but that is not historically correct. There are now new 1/6 bbl.
Sankeys (5-1/6 gal) that could be called that. (In Cincinnati, where I grew
up, those little corner beverage stores are called pony kegs.) The only
place I've seen full barrels (31 gal.) is in the old brewing cities where
the breweries still use old style barrels. They weigh about 300 lbs. full.
When I was a boy, we enjoyed watching the delivery men roll them down a ramp
into the local tavern cellar using straps to hold them back. I don't know
if full bbl. Sankeys are made.
- ------------
Steve Scampini - thanks for asking a straight forward queston we could all
answer unambiguously!;o) Your mailbox must have been stuffed.
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor
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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 09:09:16 -0600
From: John Adams <j_adams at hpfcjca.sde.hp.com>
Subject: Colorado Brewer's Festival
The 5th Annual Colorado Brewer's Festival was held Saturday and Sunday in
Fort Collins Colorado. 37 of Colorado's megas, micros, and brewpubs brought
out their best for a day in the sun.
I only attended Sunday which was a blistering 104 degrees and my focus was on
beers that I have not had before. It's would be too easy to drink my
favorites but I was looking to expand my horizons.
Bristol Brewing Company
4740 Forge Rd.
Colorado Springs
Bristol's Red Rocket Pale Ale
A malty brew with a nice hop flavor and nose. A rich red color and well
balanced. This was a very enjoyable IPA and was an excellent beer to start
the fest with.
Carver Brewing Company
1022 Main Ave.
Durango
Festival Raspberry Wheat Ale
A nice tart fruit beer. The raspberry flavor was perfect for my taste, not
too much or little and slightly malty. A very nice summer beer. This stuff
went fast.
Durango Brewing Company
3000 Main,
Durango
Anasazi Wheat
The server mentioned this was more of an ale than a wheat and she was
right. This was very hoppy beer without the clove/banana character I enjoy
in a German-style and too hoppy even for an American wheat. This was the
IPA of wheats.
Heavenly Daze Brewery and Grill
1860 Ski,
Steamboat Springs
Steamboat Scottish Ale
A very nice Scottish ale that's a little bit hoppy for the style. My
favorite Scottish is still Odell's 90 Shilling but this is a close second.
Hubcap Brewery and Kitchen
143 E. Meadow Dr.
Vail
Boysenberry Honey Ale
These guy's know how to make a very nice honey beer. One of my favorites
from the 1993 GABF was their Killer Bee Honey Ale but Boysenberry Honey
top's that one. A very well balanced fruit beer that not too sweet but
perfect! This was a very close second to Phantom Canyon's for my best of
show.
Lonetree Brewing Ltd.
375 E. 55th Ave.
Denver
Sunset Red Ale
This beer was a tad bit bitter and didn't have the hop taste or aroma I was
looking for but a very drinkable beer.
Phantom Canyon Brewing Company
#2 E. Pikes Peak,
Colorado Springs
Phantom India Pale Ale
MMMMMM good, hops central! This is my pick for best of show. A excellant
example of an IPA, well balanced and highly recommended!
Pikes Peak Brewery
2547 Weston,
Colorado Springs
Red Granite Amber Ale
This beer was a bit hard to place into a style catagory. It was more of
a brown than an amber but too hoppy with a hint of clove. Sort of the
IPA of browns.
Tabernash Brewing Company
205 Denargo,
Denver
Alright, alright at the end of the day I had to breakdown and drink one of
my all time favorites, Eric Warner's Tabernash Weiss. This is a excellent
example of A German style wheat with a bit a clove and banana character.
John Adams
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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 9:02:23 PDT
From: Jaime Raigoza <raigoza at hpcc103.corp.hp.com>
Subject: Distribution list
content-type:text/plain;charset=us-ascii
mime-version:1.0
To whom it may concern:
Please remove me off your distribution list.
Thanks,
Jaime Raigoza
raigoza at corp.hp.com
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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 09:11:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Baier <BAIER_T at SALT.PLU.EDU>
Subject: AHA and other alleged resources
I REALLY appreciated Martin Lodahl's comments about the
classes being offered by UC-Davis's Dr. Lewis. I think
these sorts of candid comments about the usefulness of
particular vendors is invaluable. I was curious about
these classes, but will save my $ thanks to Martin.
On a related topic, is there anyone else who is frustrated
with the lack of timely response when dealing with the
AHA? Every time I call, write, or whatever, it takes what
I feel to be an inordinate amount of time to get a response.
As Zymurgy is supported by advertising, tests are self
supporting, etc., what exactly is their problem? A good
resource, a good concept, horrible customer service. Just
an opinion, thanks for letting me vent.
After reading ALL the mill stuff over the last couple of
months, I bought a jsp Maltmill(tm). While I think Jack
is sometimes too defensive, this is a truly fine product.
Quality construction and an excellent crush. I am satisfied.
Standard disclaimers apply.
Finally, sincerest thanks to all of those who take the time
to post such thoughtful, insightful and technically valuable
material to this forum. I honestly believe this is the best
brewing resource on the planet.
Tom Baier
Tacoma, WA
BAIER_T at SALT.PLU.EDU
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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 12:35:27 -0400
From: David Arnold <davida at syrinx.umd.edu>
Subject: Re: Getting Beer through US Customs
In HBD #1459, I saw:
>From: Robert H. Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
>
>Tony asks about bringing beer back with you from the U.K.:
>
>> What kinds of limits are there on carrying alcoholic beverages back into
>> the US? Is there a special duty charged? Anything you think might help?
>>
>I was in England several weeks ago and brought back two carry-on suitcases
>back virtually bulging with beer. I believe (someone correct me if I'm
>wrong) you can bring back 12 liters of beer per person.
[ ... ]
>I'd suggest bringing your beer back in carry-on suitcases due to the less
>than gentle treatment that you checked baggage typically receives.
When I went to Germany 1 1/2 years ago, I wasn't sure about just how much
you were allowed to bring back. From an earlier vacation to Mexico, I
knew a possible limit was 2 liters/person, but didn't know if Europe was
different or not.
I opted to bring as much as I could carry in carry-on, act stupid and
innocent, and offer to pay any duties necessery. When we went through
the X-ray at Munich, I could *clearly* see all of the 22 1/2 liter bottles
of beer I'd backed (laboriously, each in it's own sock w/sweaters stuffed
around them), and got a little nervous. Not a word was said, though, and
neither was anything said at Heathrow (where I got X-rayed twice; can you
say 'paranoid'?) and nothing here.
>When I ran my carry-ons through Gatwick security in London, the security
>officers asked to look in my bag to verify that all the bottles they
>'saw' were indeed harmless.
They didn't even do this for me. At Munich they made me shoot a picture
with my 35mm camera to "make sure it worked" (although it only clicked;
any semi-intelligent terrorist would make a fake camera with a fake click),
but nothing else. Nobody anywhere said a word about the beer.
>officer I had canned sugar and beer, and he smiled and said go on. A piece of
>cake except for hauling two heavy suitcases through three plane changes.
I don't think I even had to say anything to customs; like I said, I was
going to act stupid and innocent and offer to pay whatever if nabbed.
The worst part was carrying a ~75lb carry-on bag through three airports.
My right arm was 2" longer when I got home! :-)
As for what beers to get, just go to the local liquor store/beer dist-
ributor and get a couple each of the styles you like. Go for the stuff
you can't find in specialty stores in the US. Also only buy beers you
know you like, or at least like the style. I ended up with a couple
black beers that I wasn't thrilled with, and could have gotten better
stuff worth the effort.
Next time I go to Europe my carry-on will have wheels!
David Arnold Internet: davida at syrinx.umd.edu
University of Maryland Bitnet: davida%syrinx.umd.edu at cunyvm
College Park, MD 20742 UUCP: uunet!syrinx.umd.edu!davida
NeXTmail: davida at anagram.umd.edu
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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 10:25 EDT
From: CSS2 at OAS.PSU.EDU (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
Subject: white ring in bottle neck/dry hopping/apple beer
Help: I just bottle up my 12th batch, a weizen a few days ago-> when I looked
at the bottles this morning, every bottle has a white ring around the
neck...have I finally infected a perfectly (?) good batch of beer? I looks
like crystals, not the usual scum that you see from bacterial infection; the
beer is absolutely clear, what gives? I used:
6.6# Northwestern Weizen extract
1 oz Cascades (boil)
0.5 oz Saaz (finish)
Wyeast #3056 - no starter
fermented 7 days in primary; 7 days in secondary...
Any suggestions, comments would be appreciated; I won't throw this one out
'tilI try a couple...
******************
I tried my hand a dry hopping a while back - used 0.5 oz Cascades in a batch
of CP's Rocky Racoon Honey Lagar; a couple of months has passed, and I got the
effect that I was hoping for - it tastes a lot like Anchor Liberty Ale - a
nice hoppy slap on the tongue!! :) A caveat to anyone thinking of dry hopping
however; be sure that your beer has enough malt to stand up against the
increased hoppiness that your beer will have. Rocky Racoon is a very light,
not-too-malty beer; the Cascades come very close to overpowering the beer. It
has also taken a couple months for weird flavors to vacate the beer-> at first
it smelled skunked, then very astringent, it is now turning into a real
winner, albeit the hoppiest beer I have ever made!
****************
Someone recently talked about trying to make an apple (pie) beer; I might
suggest adding the apples to the secondary, not the primary. Fruit added to
the primary seems to get totally fermented out, leaving only sour tastes
behind. If you wait and add the fruit to the secondary, there will be less CO2
to scrub out the fruit smell, and more alcohol to extract estery flavors from
the fruit. It's worked for me with rasberries, blackberries and peaches.
***
As usual, your milage may vary
Hoppy Brewing in Happy Valley
Curt
css2 at oas.psu.edu
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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 10:33:58 PDT
From: Gary Rich <garyrich at qdeck.com>
Subject: musings and a grits question
KMYH09A at prodigy.com ( LARRY KELLY)
Was asking about : Making a strawberry of apple beer
>I want to make an Ale, light to medium in color (not dark or stouty
>looking)
Well, I don't know if you just don't like darker beers or if you just
want to make a light beer because you want the fruit to come through,
but most of the light/pale based fruit beers I've had were really
rather "soda pop" like. At the risk of over simplifying I'd say that
at least a solid amber base is needed to say "beer" rather than "wine
cooler". That being said, strawberry and apple are among the hardest
fruits to get to stand out in a beer. The flavors are subtle once you
ferment away all the sugar.
>Should wheat malt be used?
I think most people do, but mostly for tradition's sake rather than
because it makes a difference to the final beer (other than killer
head retention). The breadiness of a wheat beer is likely to be a
subtle contribuition in these beers. Now if you are fermenting
with a weizen yeast.....that's different. A strawberry weizen
actually sounds quite tasty, especially in the 112F heat we've been
having this week.
Ok, You asked for a recipe. Here's an apple one.
5.75 lb. Klages
2 lb. Munich (use german rather than domestic if possible)
~15 IBU Liberty or Mt. Hood or Crystal or Hallertau hops beginning of boil
I use whatever has the lowest AA% in the store. You want enough hop
for antisepsis, but you don't want bitter.
Boil down to get a 3 gallon batch (OG should be somewhere around 1.060-65)
chill and top up to 5 gallons with 2 gallons of apple juice or cider
that hasn't been treated with sulfer or whatever they put in most of the
grocery store stuff. Gravity of the juice I get is usually about 1.055.
I don't think there's anything you really want from the apple pulp, the
juice will work better. For real apple pie effect try a little bit of
cinnamon or "apple pie spice". When I've made this I used 3 sticks of
cinnamon steeped in hot cider and mixed the two when they reached equilibrium
temp. I also use 1/4 to 1/2 lb. of Scottish (80l) crystal, but that may be
darker than you like.
Strawberry weizen would be easy. Just take your favorite weizen recipe
and rack over the top of ~8 lbs of frozen strawberries in the secondary.
Jack Says:
>Contra opinionis, this was not flame-bate. It was bating of the
>humor-impaired and no one appreciates how much fun that is as I do.
Hmmm.... Is it time to post the schmidling.faq from the net.loonies
group to the sierra site? It insists that he's pretty well behaved
here and in rec.crafts.brewing - at least compared to the posts in
talk.politics.mideast. What we must be missing over there.
(did someone say turkey?)
Jason Sloan mentioned:
>Louis brings up the question of keg ownership. He makes a good
>analogy to the returnable bottles that many homebrewers use for
>their own brews. Would not the Cornelius (sp) kegs which many
>of us use for kegging fall under the same category, or am I the
>only brewer who is not paying $100 for each of my kegs (close to
>the list price for a new Corny).
My feeling here is reality is that most of the
corny/firestone kegs were not legally aquired. Since the
soda giants have completely given up on these kegs (100%
here in CA at least) and gone to those bladder pack syrup
things that they don't really care. The soda folks have
by now sold most of their inventory to scrap yards, at least
that's where I see them. So when I pick one up from the
metal scrap yard am I getting one that was dumped on them
by the coke plant or one that they get through less formal
channels. I doubt that the scrap dealer knows either.
- ------------------------------
Doug Trainor asks if he should try making mead if he didn't like
Chaucer's
I say go for it. I was judging meads at the S. CA Renaisance
(never could spell that) Fair. We were judging next to one
of the concession stands that was selling this mead. Aside
from the two horribly infected meads entered, Chaucer's would
have scored dead last. Bland weak and too bloody sweet for
that gravity. you can do better. Just remember to let it age
for at least 6 months, a luxury that Chaucer's clearly does not
have.
- -------------------------
And finally (about time) a question:
I'm going to try a Dutch lager and since I can't do anything simply
I want to take a whack at doing a mixed mash like the Big Boys do. The
most specific reference that I have (Miller's Continental Pilsener) says
to use "corn grits". Well, I can't figure out what he means. I can
find "corn meal" and "hominy grits", hominy being (my wife says) corn
that's been treated with acid or lye or something to partially break
it down. Is this what I want?
Gary Rich
garyrich at qdeck.com
no cute sig today, I've rambled on enough.
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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 1994 10:54:07 -0700
From: Ken Michael Johnson <kmj at leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Dr. Lewis and his failed brewpub
In Martin Lodahl's description of Dr. Lewis and his brewing classes, he
mentions that the brewpub that Lewis started in Davis (Backalley Brewing
I think) "produced some of the most horrid beer on the west coast."
I wholeheartedly agree. His beers were disgusting. I went on a little
tour of the brewery with the manager of the pub. All of the equipment
looked fine, but the manager mentioned that they didn't fiter their
water like Sudwerk does. Big mistake. Davis has some of the most
heinous tasting water on the west coast. I believe the carbonate level
is around 500 ppm.
And we all know what bad water does to your beer...
kj
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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 12:29:00 cdt
From: "Lehnherr, Pat J." <11131lehnh at kcpbldg02.bv.com>
Subject: St. Pat's 5 gallon kegs
I have heard from a friend who called St. Patricks of Austin that the
ball-lock kegs have gone up to 3 for $45.
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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 94 12:39:00 cdt
From: "Lehnherr, Pat J." <11131lehnh at kcpbldg02.bv.com>
Subject: St. Pat's again
I sent that last post out before I was done.
I ordered 6 kegs from them at the old price. 3 arrived in couple of days.
The other three were "lost in shipment". After numerous calls and two more
shipments I finally received the other three. By the time I included all
the phone charges, They probably cost me over $15/each. Several times in
the course of trying to obtain the last three, St. Pat's said they would
call UPS to track them and call me back with the info. They never called me
and seemed quite irritated when I called them concerning these lost kegs.
Once I finally got all 6, it turned out one had a leak in the bottom.
Unfortunately I discovered this when I was pressurizing it after I had
filled it with an American Brown Ale. I probably lost half a gallon on the
floor. They had told me they pressure tested them but this one must have
been missed. After all the calls (and corresponding phone bills) it took
just to get them there, I didn't bother to have them send a replacement.
Figured I'd be money ahead just to take my business somewhere else.
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1461, 06/28/94