HOMEBREW Digest #1465 Sat 02 July 1994

Digest #1464 Digest #1466

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Mike Lewis ("Mark C. O'Connor")
  bud malt  etc. ("JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR")
  Questions on Beer Styles? (RAYMUN)
  Cookers ("Rich Scotty")
  Wyeast "Steinbart" strain (Ted Manahan)
  Re: Wort Priming (Steve Dempsey)
  Apple Pie beer (Jim Grady)
  King Kooker - which one? (Sean Rooney)
  Steinbart's yeast (Jeff Frane)
  Coors "Weizen" (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  re: Chili Beer ("McCaw, Mike")
  DOS beer software (Ed Hitchcock)
  Re:Wyeast "Steinbart" strain (Greg Demkowicz)
  Dr. George Fix's email address (Chuck Coronella)
  Altbier yeast (not again!??) (Jeff Frane)
  Brewpubs in Raleigh/Durham, I've Gott a question (Daniel Hays)
  syrupVSdry/ShelfLife/CO2scrub/yeast+pressure/HubcabAle (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  warm ferments/dryhopping/fusels/isinglass/fast ferments (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Thanks! (Douglas R. Jones)
  Navel gazing (David Draper)
  Multiple Hop Additions? Wha's with that? (Karl Elvis MacRae)
  not happy with St.Patricks, Bridgeport Brewery (Jim Doyle)
  Replies, mistakes, dry-hopping (long - sorry) (Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen)
  Belgians coming to Chicago. (Steve De Rose)
  Summary of replies to lager yeast questions (Jay Lonner)
  Use of rice as adjunct (m.bryson2)
  Low Mash PH (Terri Terfinko)
  St Pats rebuttal (MS08653)
  Beer chiller (MS08653)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 07:57:08 -0700 From: "Mark C. O'Connor" <moc at well.sf.ca.us> Subject: Mike Lewis Re: Michael Lewis, UC Davis Brewing Professor Several posts have mentioned this man and his classes. I took an inexpensive one-day workshop. He's very interesting and informative, tho' not without his somewhat "heretical" ideas that can piss off the homebrewer, micro-brew or import connoisseur. He calls Bud a "splendid" beer, finds "styles" and fussing about "ales vs. lagers" dated and silly, says "trained tasters" can't distinguish "body" (or at least have widely divergent perceptions of it) in a beer and blind tests have revealed most homebrew wisdom about putting "body" in beer to be unscientific. He spends a lot of time on mash theory, hop utilization (if you don't boil for an hour you won't convert the alpha acids to iso-alpha acids, the "desirable" bittering agents), and other intriguing elements of beer science and lore. Worthwhile, I think, and I like the fact that he challenges some "conventional wisdom". He doesn't have to be your guru, y'know, just a good teacher. I was influenced by Dr. Lewis in two areas: 1) He instructed us to first master the "pale beer" and use that as a base to create higher gravity and darker colored brews with adjuncts. He encouraged us to proceed slowly, changing one thing at a time. That way we could more easily identify the steps in the process and the ingredients that affected the flavor. 2) He repeatedly emphasized that beer brewing was personal and the only palette we had to satisfy was our own. Pleasing judges in a contest could be gratifying but its not the same as brewing for personal satisfaction. He felt contests were to tied up in traditional categories and that this was too limiting, it was important to brew good quality "beer", not such and such ale or what have you. He was challenged by several students on this, and he relented somewhat, saying he wasn't opposed to contests, just that he didn't want us limited to only brewing traditional styles. The course included a tour of the Davis brewing facilities and an informal repast with Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and Anchor Steam. As I said, I learned quite a bit. I still refer to my notes, and had a good feeling about the whole experience. An intermediate brewer could benefit greatly. I don't want a brewing course that simply reinforces my prejudices about beer, I hope I'll come away arguing with some of what I heard as well as with material I can put to use immediately. After all, our avocation is a wonderful blend of art, craft, science, history, tradition, technology, and personal bias. I hope we never subscribe to *anyone's* gospel on the "the only way to do it." Brew on, friends Mark C. O'Connor Yreka, CA moc at well.com Return to table of contents
Date: 30 Jun 1994 08:19:08 PST From: "JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR" <JSDAWS1 at PB1.PacBell.COM> Subject: bud malt etc. Recently, a brewer-freind offered me some FREE grain, and of course, I accepted gladly. It is Great Western #1202, which I was told is specifically mashed for AB. I brewed a one-grain ale with 10 lbs. The 1st runnings were light straw-colored, lighter then I'd ever seen, and the end runnings were the color of Zima while still containing noticeable sweetness. I got a decidedly poor hot break but my SG of 1051 was in-line with my normal extraction. I'm having fantacies of brewing a bud-colored barleywine. Can anyone tell me something difinative about this stuff ? Is it realy Budweiser malt ? Is it fully modified ? Speaking of Bud... a rdaio ad I keep hearing has got me wondering... does anyone have a recipe for that Opaque Pumpernickel Stout ? I'm particularly interested in how the beef bullion is added. Should I use only the first press of that ingredient ? :) | WATCH OUT ! My dogma's driving my karma on the info super-highway | | ------------------------------------------------------------------- | | JACK DAWSON JSDAWS1 415 545-0299 CUSTOMER BILLING SYSTEMS | Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 11:21:54 -0400 (EDT) From: RAYMUN at delphi.com Subject: Questions on Beer Styles? I am a little confusted on the way to create a beer recipe. I have looked at cats meow and other similar recipe bases and have noticed that many different beer types have the same exact ingredients. HOw can this be? How can a Pale Ale have the same ingredients as an India Pale Ale or a Pilsner? Or how can a Porter have the same as a so called Stout? What ingredients determines a beer style? I have Suds v3.0 and using the recipe formulator, I pick a style of brew I want to create, but how do I know what malts to use? I could take Pale Ale Malt add some crystal to the proper color of beer according to the program. But what hops make a beer a different style that another. If I took Pale Ale Malt and made an IPA, or took a PAle Ale Malt and some Wheat malt would it still be a IPA. According to SUDS all I do I guess is match the color, HBU's and gravities to make a style of beer? This seems to easy. How can just changing a beers color, change the beers style? Or adding 1 of 2 more HBU do the same? Any input is appreciated, post on HBD for others to read! RAYMUN at DELPHI.COM Return to table of contents
Date: 30 Jun 1994 09:26:12 U From: "Rich Scotty" <rscotty at denitqm.ecte.uswc.uswest.com> Subject: Cookers Subject: Time: 9:17 AM OFFICE MEMO Cookers Date: 6/30/94 David Hippe writes: >I have seen the King Kooker for $50 with 170,000 btu but I am >concerned with the stability of the tripod. I found a Cache Cooker for >$70 rated at about 100,000 btu which looks more sturdy. What btu >rating should I look for? >Does anyone have a distinct preference? I have a King Cooker and you are correct in your assessment of the tripod. I never trusted the thing. It is poorly designed and doesn't fit well enough to be useful. I solved this problem with my trusty Black & Decker Workmate (tm). When I brew, I set up the workmate with a small piece of sheetrock to protect it and fire everything up. Works great and they're useful for many other things around the house. As to BTU capacity, I wouldn't worry about it too much. I have never come close to opening up the King Cooker to full throttle - I fear it would burn a hole in the bottom of my keg/boiler. It would certainly lead to scorching problems at the very least. IMHO, it is much more important to look at these stoves from the perspective of how well they distribute their heat rather than how much heat they can produce. In other words, is the flame localized or well distributed? Is there a flame difuser on the stove? Distribution of the flame will significantly reduce scorching of the wort. Usual disclaimers apply- Rich Scotty "Given the most carefully controlled conditions, the yeast will do as it damn well pleases." Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 08:48:36 -0700 From: Ted Manahan <tedm at hpcvcdq.cv.hp.com> Subject: Wyeast "Steinbart" strain Full-Name: Ted Manahan John Horzepa <jhorzepa at radiomail.net> asks about "Steinbart (I believe #1021) ale yeast." I don't know about the Wyeast number - I've never seen it numbered before. My local homebrew store is supplied by Steinbarts, and usually has this stuff in stock. What I've heard: This is a single mutation from Wyeast 1056, Chico ale. The owner of Steinbarts likes it more than 1056, and had it cultured and packaged just for his store by Wyeast. It is supposed to be highly attenuative. What I know: I've used this for at least a dozen batches of beer. It is very reliable, and flocculates well. It doesn't like cool temperatures - make sure to ferment at least in the high 60's or it will be very slow. Below ~75 degrees this yeast ferments very clean, with few esters. I've never fermented above 75, so I don't know how it performs at high temps. It performs well if you pitch onto the dregs from a previous batch. It makes a nice sweet mead, dying at about 8% alcohol. It is my house yeast - I like it. Ted Manahan tedm at cv.hp.com 503/750-2856 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 10:09:45 -0600 From: Steve Dempsey <steved at longs.lance.colostate.edu> Subject: Re: Wort Priming DBLAKE1037 at aol.com writes: > ... I have saved the 3 > cups of raw wort (sg=1.072) because I thought that it would be a good idea to > use it to prime when bottling time comes around. ... > 1) Do I have enough (volume-wise and sugar content-wise) to prime > adequately? (I am brewing a weizen). For most beers, priming raises the SG by about 0.004. For a weizen, you probably want a bit more, up to 0.006. Assuming your finishing SG is 1.012, you have 0.060 worth of fermentables in the saved wort. But this will be diluted when you mix it with the beer. If you dilute to make 1 gallon, you'll get: 0.060 points x 0.1875 gallons = 0.01125. Dilute that to make 5 gallons: 0.01125 / 5 = 0.00225 This is not sufficient to prime your beer. You would need more like 7-8 cups of 1.072 wort for priming. But you can still use this wort as about 40% of your priming, and supplement with your normal priming ingredients. If you do use it, make sure it's sanitary. If it's been sitting in a jar in your refrigerator with just a lid on it, you should boil & cool before using; wort like this is ideal media for growing all kinds of beer spoiling organisms. ================================ Engineering Network Services Steve Dempsey Colorado State University steved at longs.lance.colostate.edu Fort Collins, CO 80523 ================================ +1 303 491 0630 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 94 12:21:11 EDT From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com> Subject: Apple Pie beer The recent thread on "Apple Pie" beer and whether one could get (would want) apple cider in it reminded me that there are certain yeast strains that produce an apple character: > HOMEBREW Digest #811 Tue 28 January 1992 > > From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix) > Subject: Wyeast Cultures ( George Fix ) > [snip] > The American Pilsner strain is reported to be AB's production yeast. It > produces apple like flavors found to some degree in all AB products. The > culture from Wyeast, however, can have on occasion very strong apple flavors. > These will diminish to some extent with aging, nevertheless measured > acetaldehyde levels are always well above what is normally thought of as > acceptable. It is my belief (totally without proof) that the Wyeast culture > (unlike AB's production yeast) is a multi-strain culture. You might consider using this yeast if you want an apple character in your brew. - -- Jim Grady grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 11:23:29 -0600 From: Sean.Rooney at uic.edu (Sean Rooney) Subject: King Kooker - which one? I just received a catalog from Metal Fusion, the King Kooker manufacturer, and I'm overwhelmed by all the different models. Does anyone have insight as to which is the ideal brewing stove? Basically, there are 170,000 btu "cast buner" models and 200,000 btu "jet burner" models, and each comes on 3 or 4 different stands. I've read on HBD of problems with adjustability, efficiency, and stability, and I remember somebody saying that a keg fit perfectly on their stove. Please help. Thanks Sean.Rooney at uic.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 09:30:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Frane <gummitch at teleport.com> Subject: Steinbart's yeast > From: John Horzepa (via RadioMail) <jhorzepa at radiomail.net> > Subject: Wyeast "Steinbart" strain > > I was at my local homebrew shop the other day, picking up the ingredients for > new batch. The shop owner (whose advice I have found to be extremely good) > recommended I try a new Wyeast strain, Steinbart (I believe #1021). He said > is another American ale strain, and that it is currently in only limited > distribution. Does anyone know anything about this strain? I decided to use > it, as I have never gotten bad advice from the store before, but I'm just > looking for any info on this strain that is out there. > > John, You may find a remarkable similiarity between Steinbart 1021 and American Ale 1056. Remarkable similarity, really. - --Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 94 09:58:34 EDT From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu Subject: Coors "Weizen" picoreview: it's not. microreview: I don't know why they bothered. Tastes like an american lager. No real wheat flavor, definitely no Weizen yeast flavor. It's also got the word "stout" on the bottle. But I think it's part of the size designation: "stout 12 oz" That is, it's a wider than normal (longneck) bottle. But I could be wrong. =S Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 94 08:52:00 PDT From: "McCaw, Mike" <mccaw at wdni.com> Subject: re: Chili Beer I have made several chili beers now, so here's my $0.02 worth. I have found that almost all of the chili flavor/aroma and heat is scrubbed out in fermentation. A chili in the bottle _can_ heat up a beer, but the final heat level will be quite unpredictable. Chilis in the bottle or in the fermenter should be _BOILED_ at least ten minutes, (20 is safer) in a small quantity of water in a covered pot. They will remain whole, but lose firmness. The best technique I have found is to boil 1/2 to 1 pound of halved Jalapenos (adjust amount for pepper variety) in a half gallon of water in a small covered saucepan for about a half hour. After cutting them in half, I remove the seeds from about half the batch. Calibrate this extract by putting a tablespoon in a cup of beer and tasting. With the peppers I get around here, 1-1./2 - 2 tbs is about right. Then use this extract to top off the carboy at bottling/kegging time. I just put the requisite amount in the keg, and fill on top of it. I have gotten the best results with a lightly hopped pale ale, but have no objection to the lager (cave creek) approach. When done right, there is a wonderful chili nose and light chile flavor, enough bite to be assertive without being unbalanced or downright painful. Mike McCaw (McCaw at WDNI.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 14:26:29 -0300 From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH at ac.dal.ca> Subject: DOS beer software I posted the beta version of a beer recipe programme for DOS to rec.crafts.brewing. I wouldn't mind posting it to sierra as well, does anyone know who to contact about that? thanks ed *--Ed Hitchcock---ech at ac.dal.ca----* *--Anat.&Neurobio.---Dalhousie-U.--* *--Halifax--NS--Can----------------* Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 15:15:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Greg Demkowicz <demkowg at mary.iia.org> Subject: Re:Wyeast "Steinbart" strain >From: John Horzepa >recommended I try a new Wyeast strain, Steinbart (I believe #1021). He said >is another American ale strain, and that it is currently in only limited >distribution. Does anyone know anything about this strain? I decided >to use I've used this strain on my last 3 IPA. The slurry from the primary of the first, was repitched on hte second batch. The slurry from the primary of the second, was used on the third. Nice attenuation, ferments well at 70. I did a side by side comparison of the 1021 and the 1056. It behaves and tastes like the Wyeast 1056, except maltier. I'll use it again. I bought mine from a shop in New Jersey. Greg Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 12:56:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Chuck Coronella <coronell at cs.unr.edu> Subject: Dr. George Fix's email address Could someone please drop me a line with George Fix's email address? Thanks, Chuck Coronella Chemical & Metallurgical Engineering Department University of Nevada, Reno coronell at cs.unr.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 13:12:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Frane <gummitch at teleport.com> Subject: Altbier yeast (not again!??) In reference to the question of what is the "real" Dusseldorf yeast, I finally got a chance to speak with Dave Logsdon. Officially, W1007 is the altbier strain, and originated in Dusseldorf (apologies for the missing umlaut). David said that, indeed, this is a very fluffy, poorly flocculating strain, although it *will* flocculate (more or less) eventually. He agreed that, in a commercial setting, this provided some problems. Most breweries simply cannot wait around for the yeast to settle, which can take weeks. However, he did offer some suggestions, particularly useful for homebrewers. 1. Give it time. Homebrewers have a real advantage in this regard, as they don't have customers (well, there's always the occasional thirsty spouse) wanting the beer NOW and don't have a lot of expensive equipment tied up. 2. Use finings. 3. Rack the beer. According to Dave (and judging from personal experience with other yeasts), racking after primary fermentation will go a long way toward helping the remaining yeast flocculate. I gather this is a particular issue with the cylindro-conical fermenters so common among microbreweries. He also agreed with my notion that the dynamics inside a bottle are different than those in a large tank. Given a bit of time, even a very fluffy strain should flocculate once the beer is bottled. - --Jeff (eagerly looking forward to brewing alts) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 15:23:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Daniel Hays <dhays at tenet.edu> Subject: Brewpubs in Raleigh/Durham, I've Gott a question My first posting to the HBD and it's a brewpub request. Oh, well. I'll be traveling to Durham, North Carolina July 8 and will also be spending a few days in Pinehurst, NC. Any recommendations on area brewpubs to try? Also, all this talk of the marvels revealed through all-grain brewing has this new brewer poised to take the plunge. Okay, so I'm actually thinking of doing one or two more partial mashes first, followed by a kit beer or two to get confidence at its highest peak, then maybe daring to do a full blown *INFUSION* mash. I've read the all-grain equipment FAQ, scanned a couple of books, and lurked around this digest a while to find what might best work for me as a lautertun. I think it's the Gott cooler. Could those of you who use one tell me: 1. Is the 5 gallon cooler adequate, or do you outgrow it and wish you had bought the 10 gallon size? 2. Is the cooler easy to retrofit with a spigot? 3. False bottom or Phalse bottom? I've even read that a folding steamer basket works well. What do you think? Thanks in advance for your responses. This HBD has been an invaluable resource. Dan Hays dhays at tenet.edu P.S. John Keane: How did that Cooper's Ale kit turn out? Return to table of contents
Date: 30 Jun 94 20:26:00 GMT From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: syrupVSdry/ShelfLife/CO2scrub/yeast+pressure/HubcabAle Brian writes: > I've heard some people say that malt syrup gives more >body to an ale than malt powder but I think that may be >personal preference. Also dependent on the brand. > They both have physical problems when using - syrup >is messy and some find it a pain to handle. Powder absorbs >air-borne moisture like a super sponge and is very sticky. > One thing to remember is that malt powder is almost >all fermentable where as about 75% of syrup is (I think >thats right). This means for a given weight of one you >need to adjust if you use the other. Apart from that, I've >always been told that they can be used interchangeably. Yes, that's about right. Different extracts have differing amounts of water in them. Alexanders has more than most, but most of the rest are about 20% water. Dry malt extract starts out between 3% and 6% water and can, as Brian said, absorb a lot of water out of the air. As I said before, not all extracts are the same. Some contain corn sugar or other sugars. I've limited my use to several extracts with which I've had good luck (Northwestern, Munton & Fison, Ireks, John Bull, Alexanders and Laaglander) and I know the approximate fermentability of each. Note that, contrary to what Brian wrote, dry malt extract is not close to 100% fermentable. Wort made with Laaglander Dry is only about 55% fermentable (apparent attenuation) whereas M&F is more like 70%. Note also that yeast plays a role in this too, some yeasts being more attenuative than others. ******** Andy writes: >Somebody (sorry, I do not have a reference) wrote about malt lifetimes >recently, quoting (from memory) 6 months for liquid, 6 months for uncrushed >malt, 2 months for crushed pale malt in a well-sealed container. >My question is: do you just throw out the malt after these intervals, or is >there some way of testing the malt to see if it is stale? Is this an easy test >or do you only find out after you've made the beer? What flavor profiles do >beers made with old malt possess? Well, malt syrup will tend to get darker and pick up oxidation flavors (sherrylike) as it ages. Cooler temps help reduce this effect, warmer tend to oxidize it faster. At refrigerator temps, I would imagine you could keep syrup for well over a year without much flavor degredation. Uncrushed malt, kept dry and cool, can stay fine for well over a year. I've brewed with two-year-old DeWolf-Cosyns malt which was stored at 60-65F in new, gasketted, thick, white, HDPE buckets and the beer turned out very well. Stale grain can taste grassy, musty, moldy, phenolic and/or metallic (due to oxidation of lipids) and will impart similar flavors to your beer. Again warm temps and higher moisture will speed staling. One very vivid example of the effect of moisture is the fact that two brewing seasons ago, I stored my DeWolf-Cosyns CaraPils malt in one of those 5 gallon HDPE buckets I mentioned above. By the end of the brewing season, the malt smelled very phenolic (like bandaids) and tasted similarly. This last season, I threw a canister dessicant into the bucket with the grain. Last week, the grain still smelled and tasted as good as new. Note that CaraPils is very high in moisture in terms of malts (twice as high as some malts by the same mfgr), so this effect is most profound in CaraPils, in my experience. Crushed malt should ideally be used within a day or so or it will pick up water (turn slack). Within a few weeks it be noticably stale unless it is stored in a moisture-proof package (immediately during the humid summer). ******* Jeff writes: >I thought it was another example of >someone thinking that bubbling CO2 would scrub dissolved O2. As many others have explained, CO2 does scrub dissolved O2, but also it scrubs out aromatics (malt, hop and fruit) so: to maximize malt aromatics, I would venture to guess that lower fermentation temps should increase malt aroma, to maximize hop aromatics, use dryhopping and add them after virtually all the CO2 has evolved, and to maximize fruit aromatics, again, wait till most of the primary ferment is over (the fruit will have its own ferment also, but what can you do?). ******** Pierre writes: >Is this actually a known fact? I was assured by a microbiology professor >who works on the sucrose metabolism pathway in S. cerevisiae that there >is NO feedback inhibition by CO2 pressure on the fermentation enzymes. I believe Charlie was the one who popularized this theory (?). In my own experience, a large headspace increases the carbonation in the finished beer a significant amount, but a very small headspace doesn't decrease the carbonation much at all. I have not tried NO headspace. Pierre-- if you could find out more about this and maybe relay our observations, perhaps that prof could give us a better explaination? ********** John writes: > Hubcap Brewery and Kitchen > Boysenberry Honey Ale > These guy's know how to make a very nice honey beer. One of my favorites > from the 1993 GABF was their Killer Bee Honey Ale but Boysenberry Honey > top's that one. A very well balanced fruit beer that not too sweet but > perfect! This was a very close second to Phantom Canyon's for my best of > show. I agree regarding the Phantom Canyon, but must disagree on the Hubcap. I found it much too sweet (as if they added raw honey to the keg) with lots of honey aroma and flavor, but absolutely no boysenberry. Frankly, the best beer I tasted in CO was Jim Liddil's Best-Of-Show pLambic (and I had Boon Gueuze on the Crazy Train (thanks ?) and Hansens pre-1983 Gueuze at a private tasting (thanks Dan)). Al. Return to table of contents
Date: 30 Jun 94 20:28:00 GMT From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: warm ferments/dryhopping/fusels/isinglass/fast ferments Aidan writes: >Some may remember that I am fermenting a sort of bastard ale / >lager thingy at the moment, well it hasn't cooled down as quickly >as I had hoped and has spent at least a day fermenting at about >17 degC Will this produce all sorts of horrible Esters etc from >my Wyeast American Ale yeast? Not to worry. At 17C (62F), Wyeast American Ale will produce a very un-fruity ale. With this yeast, you need to get up into the 20-22C range to get significant esters. ******** Rick writes: >So, I brewed a honey lager and I added >1 ounce of Williamette hop pellets to the secondary. It has been 11 >days, and the hops are still floating on top! Someone said that >they will fall out and sink to the bottom. How long do I have to wait? I wouldn't wait. I'd siphon now, but you may want to attach a scrubbie and a hop bag over the end of the siphon. >but I wante to know how long it should take for the hops to settle out. >Yes, next time I'll use a hop bag... I wouldn't use a hop bag -- I'd use whole hops instead. Even with a hop bag, a significant amount of hop pellets will still come through the bag. ******** Art writes: >Ok, I admit it. I'm frustrated. Two of my last few batches have had problems >with fusel alcohols. They've both had fairly high OG. I believe I know what >happened to the first batch. It was a dubbel, and I used Chimay yeast which I >cultured from bottle dregs. The problems there were (probably) under >pitching and fermenting at 66 degrees. Now I know better. The second batch was As you said later in your post, break material has been implicated by some to increase fusel levels. Note also, that both ester and fusel alcohol production is also increased by higher-gravity worts and by higher-temp ferments (also remember that fermenation is exothermic and a high-gravity wort will generate a lot of heat -- that's the mistake I made with my 1.087 Chimay yeast banana/model_airplane_glue beer). ******** Steven writes: >top to the malt extract there was three packets. One being the dried >brewers yeast, the second being a brewers yeast nutrient, and the third >was a packet (25ml) of Isinglass (sp?). When should I add this stuff? I >was going to add it when I rack to the secondary, is this correct? I I'm not sure how long you need to wait after adding the Isinglass, but it should be added when fermentation is over. It will take most of the yeast out and unless you want a high-diacetyl beer, you want to make sure that the yeast has had a chance to re-absorb the diacetyl it made. Note also, that working with powdered Isinglass is a great deal more than just sprinkling it in. It needs to be prepared in an acidic solution and rehydrated over a period of several days. I suppose you could redydrate it in finished flat beer (for the acidic solvent), but I've never read step-by-step instructions for use. Pre-mixed, liquid isinglass is available from homebrew supply stores, but must be refrigerated after preparation or will become useless. Does anyone have detailed instructions for preparation and use of isinglass? ******** There were a couple of question on fast ferments (like 1-2 days). This is not uncommon in warm weather, especially with dry yeast. The result is a highly estery beer with elevated fusel alcohol (solventy) levels. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 16:33:42 -0600 From: djones at iex.com (Douglas R. Jones) Subject: Thanks! I would like to thank all the brewer's out there who responded to my calls for enlightenment. Thanks to you I will be able to refine my process while still keeping things as simple as possible. The major points I got were to 1) Quit worrying; 2) Watch my temps before pitching my yeast; 3) Don't rehydrate so long; 4) Short ferment times are not unusual; 5) Beer can sit in the primary longer than 1 week; 6) After bottling a month is a reasonable time to wait for the beer to carbonate up. Thanks again! By the way I tried a bottle from batch #1 last night. Nice flavor! Low carbonation which I have been assured will improve with time! Doug - ------------------------------------------------------------------- 'I am a traveler of | Douglas R. Jones both Time and Space' | IEX Corporation Led Zeppelin | (214)301-1307 | djones at iex.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 08:47:43 +1000 (EST) From: David Draper <David.Draper at mq.edu.au> Subject: Navel gazing Dear Friends, I just got through reading HBD 1463, which contained something like 6 or 7 articles that had a line of the form "hope I don't get flamed for this, but..." I ask: Does this not say something about us Digestors? And I do NOT think it says "these idiots deserve to get flamed." Just a little thought. Cheers, Dave in Sydney - -- ****************************************************************************** David S. Draper School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University ddraper at laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au NSW 2109 Sydney, Australia Fax: +61-2-805-8428 Voice: +61-2-805-8347 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 94 16:07:21 PDT From: Karl Elvis MacRae <batman at cisco.com> Subject: Multiple Hop Additions? Wha's with that? I have a question about recipes that call for multiple additions of hops (at 50mins, at 30, at 15, steep after the boil, dry...) I've seen various combinations in some recipies. My questions is, what's the point? Does it produce some sort of complex layering of hop flavor and bouquet? Or is it just 'one of those things people do'? Curious- -Karl - -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Karl Elvis MacRae Software Engineer Cisco Systems, Menlo Park, CA, USA batman at cisco.com 415-688-8231 DoD#1999 1993 Vulcan Eighty-Eight -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- "Hi, you look different! Are you a puppet?" -Barb Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 16:56:07 -0700 From: Jim Doyle <jgdoyle at uci.edu> Subject: not happy with St.Patricks, Bridgeport Brewery I suppose I should add my St.Patricks experience in with the rest...I ordered three ball-lock for $33, and two o-ring sets for about $3/set. A week later, I got the three sticky, smelly, partially syrup filled tanks strapped together with tie-wraps and duct tape. After searching for the receipt, I found it stuck on the sticky side of the duct tape. Carefully prying it off, I could barely tell that they had charged me $16 per set for the o-rings which were not included at all. Several phone calls and a month later, my o-rings appeared and the credit was issued for tha "accidental" overcharge. Another note... I was in Portland this weekend, and saw the "amazing warehouse o'kegs" which Jack StClaire had mentioned (and called about-thanks!). It is truly an awesome sight, although not a sankey to be found amongst the probably two thousand there. The guy didn't know how much to charge me, so I didn't buy anything... At the Bridgeport Brewery there, I asked for a tour of the facilities, and was told rudely by a blond manager-type guy that Sunday is the day for tours. When my friend (a Portland person) mentioned I would be returning to CA on Sunday, he said that had he known that, he wouldn't even take me around at all. I was not impressed by the level of service or attitude, but the hand-pumped cask conditioned ale, and the xx stout were wonderful. Thanks for the leads... Jim Doyle Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 12:33:23 EST From: Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen <aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au> Subject: Replies, mistakes, dry-hopping (long - sorry) Full-Name: Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen Hi y'all Thanks to everyone who replied to my post (it was quite overwhelming - I feel like I am in a "virtual brew-club"!). I assiduously replied to everyone who mailed me .. Phew! But Mark Childers, your address just bounced when I replied, not sure what happened there, so indulge me and I'll include a few personal comments tha might be off general interest: * Aidan, it was interesting reading your letter on HBD about the brewpub * in Canberra. Is the brewpub thing big down under or just starting? I think it started, stopped, and is starting again. * How about in other parts (Darwin, Perth). Well I have only been to Perth for 2 days but I it has the original Matilda Bay Brewing Company place, in Freemantle. They make a sort wheat beer and quite a nice dark lager (thy don't call it a bock) called Dogbolter. They have expanded their brewpubs, so there is one in Melbourne now, and ther is also the Geebung Polo Club in Melbourne too (haven't been there). I haven't been to Darwin (it would be a bitch brewing there - very hot). Sydney has three brew-pubs that I know off, and they are all within 10 mins walk of each other in The Rocks. Scharers has the nicest beer, they have a bock to DIE FOR! All brewed using strict Reihengiwhatssit. * I was in N.Z. for some time and the availability of fresh, * english style beer was a real treat. I am from NZ, Palmerston North to be precise, and I never saw a english style pub (cask conditioned hand pumped etc). I never really liked most of the mega-beer in NZ either. Where were you living in NZ? Didya enjoy yourself (I am rather proud of my little country). The main reason for this post was: * Some may remember that I am fermenting a sort of bastard ale / * lager thingy at the moment, well it hasn't cooled down as quickly * as I had hoped and has spent at least a day fermenting at about * 17 degC Will this produce all sorts of horrible Esthers etc from * my WYeast American Ale yeast? ^^^ Sorry this should have been Lager yeast ... sorry for the confusion, even I am not that stoopid to worry about Ale yeasts fermenting at 17 degC. I have racked the lager to a secondary, it seemed ok so fingers crossed. I dry-hopped with Styrian Goldings (1 oz of whole hops). We'll see how it goes. I should also say that I tasted my first stout using WYeast Irish Ale, only my second beer with liquid yeast, and it is beaut! Even after only 10 days in the bottle, it is a full tasting beasty, but will age very nicely I think. I would highly reccomend the use of Liquid Yeast, both the Wheat (WYeast Wheat) and the Stout I have done have been good, and definitely lacking that homebrew tang. * Rick Gontarek (gontarek at ncifcrf.gov) asked: * * Hello all! I received several replies regarding how to dry-hop, and * I'd like to thank everyone. So, I brewed a honey lager abd I added * 1 ounce of Williamette hop pellets to the secondary. It has been 11 * days, and the hops are still floating on top! Someone said that * they will fall out and sink to the bottom. How long do I have to wait? Whole hops don't sink, they float, the pellets sink. This is ok, just rack your beer out from under the hops, I think a hop bag will reduce your efficiency (is that right??). Later Aidan - -- Aidan Heerdegen e-mail: aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 94 22:35:26 CST From: sderose at smirror.tezcat.com (Steve De Rose) Subject: Belgians coming to Chicago. SR> I must keep this brief. SR> Right now, I finally learned who SR> shall be coming to play Germany at SR> Soldier SR> Field this Saturday [12noon]. SR> It's Belgium. SR> That means that on Friday, a SR> good number of Belgians shall be SR> checking into SR> Chicago hotels. SR> Here is the rare opportunity to SR> meet living, breathing Belgians SR> and, SR> importantly, TALK BEER WITH THEM! SR> Perhaps we could even arrange SR> for a formal interchange of beers SR> between SR> Chicago and Belgium. SR> Opportunities like this seldom SR> occur. I will be at the Sheraton SR> Towers, SR> working out of the Transportation SR> office the next 2 days. Call me at SR> 312/464-1000 x1449. I'll know SR> where the Belgians are staying (if SR> it isn't the SR> Sheraton Towers). >>>> Steve "Pudgy" De Rose 8=)> <<<< sderose at smirror.tezcat.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 1994 20:44:29 -0800 (PST) From: Jay Lonner <8635660 at NESSIE.CC.WWU.EDU> Subject: Summary of replies to lager yeast questions In yesterday's HBD I posted some questions about my first-ever experience with lager yeast, in particular Wyeast's Czech Pils strain. I was concerned about the really long lag time and sluggish primary fermentation I am experiencing. The replies I received had several points in common: 1. Lager yeasts, generally speaking, do not ferment as spectacularly or as quickly as ale yeasts. Apparently a normal primary fermentation for lager is 10-14 days, with 3 weeks not at all uncommon. The concensus is that my rate of airlock glugging (one glug every 6 or 7 seconds) is nothing to worry about. 2. A larger yeast starter was a universal recommendation. I used a 1-quart starter for this batch; next time I intend to use at least a half-gallon starter -- maybe even 3 quarts. One responder suggested that I ferment my starter at the same temperature that I intend to conduct the primary fermentation of the actual beer at, in order to avoid weird temperature-differential effects. This is advice that I intend to follow. 3. Most responders suggested starting fermentation at ale-ish temperatures, and to move the beer to a cooler environment after active fermentation is evident. I have mixed feelings about this advice. Miller writes that this technique will result in the production of more diacetyl than the yeast can later reduce. He goes on to say that the "correct" way to shorten lag times is to pitch a larger starter. I know that many HBDers consider Miller a little anal, but I do not share this opinion; I intend to do things his way unless experience convinces me otherwise. Many thanks to those gallant souls who replied! I especially liked the way you all (or almost all) closed your messages with assurances not to worry and that my beer would be great. There's nothing like a little good HBD karma to set your mind at ease! Jay. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 05:37:00 UTC From: m.bryson2 at genie.geis.com Subject: Use of rice as adjunct I have a question concerning rice as an adjunct. Normally I boil rice for 30 minutes to gelatinize it before adding to the mash. I recently bought some organic white rice flour, and want to know if it can be used if the mash, and if it would also need to be boiled before adding to the mash. I realize that powdered rice is not rice starch, but I am at a loss. Any help would be appreciated. Private e-mail would be fine, or a small note in the HBD. THanks in advance. e-mail address: m.bryson2 at genie.geis.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 8:26:37 EDT From: terfintt at ttown.apci.com (Terri Terfinko) Subject: Low Mash PH I have been monitoring the PH of my mashes very closely. Most recommendations on mash PH specify a safe range of 5.1-5.8 My water has a PH of 5.8 and after mash in I get a reading of 4.6 from my PH meter. The grain bill was 8 pounds of British 2 row pale malt and 1/2 pound of crystal. I assume that darker malts, chocolate and black patent would lower the PH even further. Should I be concerned about a mash PH of 4.6 ? If I wanted to raise it, what would I use? What does a low PH do to the enzyme activity? Any advice would be appreciated. Terry Terfinko - terfintt at ttown.apci.com Return to table of contents
Date: 01 Jul 94 07:20:55 From: MS08653 at MSBG.med.ge.com Subject: St Pats rebuttal FROM: "MICHAEL L. TEED"<MS08653 at MSBG> Dist: INTERNET int homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com I just read Jon Higby's response to the information requested on St Pats, and I am surprised at his response. I will attempt to limit bandwidth. Jon, if someone asked you for information on a topic, and you did not agree with it, would that then be a 'complaint'? You appear to feel that way. If you will read my response, you will find no sign of a 'complaint', just the facts. I am not upset over the kegs, but the o-ring set was a waste of $, as only one ring out of the set was usable. That point was stated fairly. In order to obtain a deal on an item, sometimes you sacrifice elements that may not be important to you, but are to others. As you stated, St Pats sold thousands of kegs, with few problems. I can buy kegs locally for little more than the old price of their kegs, but thought I would be happy saving a few dollars and ordering with St Pats. I still feel that way. But if you dont agree with the information presented, dont label it a complaint, label it as information, and be a man and accept your flames, be responsible for what you speak in a public forum. Mike Teed Return to table of contents
Date: 01 Jul 94 07:32:19 From: MS08653 at MSBG.med.ge.com Subject: Beer chiller FROM: "MICHAEL L. TEED"<MS08653 at MSBG> Dist: INTERNET int homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Saw the posting on chilling beer with a copper coil, and thought I would add my comments. I have been doing so for about 2 weeks now, and have done some experimenting on obtaining optimum results. My current setup, which I am happy with, uses 18 foot of 3/8 OD copper tubing wound in a oval shaped 2 layer coil, shaped to lay flat on the bottom of my 10 qt 'lunchbox' cooler. I chose the laying flat position to minimize the consumption of natural resources, being ice. I used 6 foot of beer line to come in to the cooler, which is a bit long for line pressure drops, as I need 9 psi in the keg to get the same results as 7 psi usually did for me with the cobra head tap, but is necessary for placement of the keg on the floor and cooler on the countertop. Results are good, I dont think you could pour a pitcher from this, but a 12 oz glass works fine. To adapt to the end of the copper tubing, I used chrome plated brass fittings ( I believe available from Foxx ) and ground the plating off of the tubing insert end of them so I could use lead free solder to attach them. Need more details, EMail me. I tried using shorter copper lengths, but found less than 10 ft to be completely unacceptable. Hoppy brewing Mike Teed Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1465, 07/02/94