FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  homebrew mail-order blues ("JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR")
  mail-order home-brew blues ("JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR")
  General thoughts.. (m.bryson2)
  Anchor and trademark stuff (Dick Dunn)
  Phil Miller's Offensive SIG line (BILL_MARKS)
  Bacteriology ("Jeff M. Michalski, MD")
  Kegging Beer (rnarvaez)
  Wort Volume Reduction Tip (Phil Brushaber)
  corny (soda) keg o-rings, where to get 'em cheap (24-Jul-1994 2239 -0400)
   (Douglas Thompson)
  Low carbonation levels ?? (Paul Jeffrey)
  Strike water temp (Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen)
  beer machine help (fwd) (kain)
  brewing lagers (Tim Lawson)
  Open Fermenters/sanitation (Jim Busch)
  Re: In Gott's Name ... (-: (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Raking the Lauter (Jim Busch)
  Bacteria (Brian Wurst)
  Hello Roger (Bob Jones)
  Head retention with home malted wheat (Nancy.Renner)
  apolofy ("JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR")
  Mac Digest browsers. (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  In Gott's Name ... (-: (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Keg O-ring results... (abaucom)
  Billowing clouds of yeast and sediment (huffmand)
  Vanilla in Porter / New England Beer (R. Keith Frank)
  Re:  Brew Pubs in San Diego (hanna)
  Maryland Brewpubs & Homebrewshops ("" )
  Bock, the Book (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Cleaning glassware (KWH)
  Initial results for on-demand Krauesening (Jack Skeels)
  Washington DC Area Pubs/Clu ("Scott Majdecki")



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: 19 Jul 1994 16:07:16 PST
From: "JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR" <JSDAWS1 at PB1.PacBell.COM>
Subject: homebrew mail-order blues

Mail-order buyer beware

I just had a thourally unpleasant experience with a newer Brew
mail-order business, the 'Brew Club' in Santa Cruz.      I placed a
fairly large order which included a carbonator (CO2 fitting for a PET
bottle).   When I got the order, I noticed I'd been overcharged for
this item ($10 in catalog.. $13 on invoice)  I called to inquire and the
woman who always answers said that their supplier had raised his prices
and I could either accept it or mail it back (at my expense).  I decided
to keep it.  A week later I tried it and found it to be defective, altho
it made a wonderful beer super-soaker  :(.  I called back and she said
that the whole batch was defective and she'd send a replacement.  This
too was defective but this time when I called I was told that I would
have to return it (at my expense) to get a replacement.  I did, and when
I called a week later to confirm receipt I was told that since I'd only
returned one, that no further refunds would be given.  I told her I
wasn't aware that she'd wanted the original, at which point she began
whining about her problems with her supplier.  I suggested that if her
supplier was more important than her customer, perhaps she was in the
wrong business.  She said tough shit, and I would not get a refund.

At this point, I'm out $15 with zero recourse.  I won't be doing any
further business with this so-called 'Brew Club'.  I now realize that
once they've got your credit card #, you're pretty much at their mercy.
I've dealt with other homebrew mail-order businesses and on those rare
occasions when there were problems, they've always been professional and
customer focussed.  The moral I guess is deal with a reputable,
established dealer and not a fly-by-night shoestring operation.

| WATCH OUT !  My dogma's driving my karma on the info super-highway  |
| ------------------------------------------------------------------- |
| JACK DAWSON    JSDAWS1   415 545-0299    CUSTOMER BILLING SYSTEMS   |

Return to table of contents


Date: 19 Jul 1994 07:59:07 PST
From: "JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR" <JSDAWS1 at PB1.PacBell.COM>
Subject: mail-order home-brew blues

Mail-order buyer beware

I just had a thourally unpleasant experience with a newer homebrew
mail-order business, the 'homebrew club' in Santa Cruz.  I placed a
fairly large order which included a carbonator (CO2 fitting for a PET
bottle).   When I got the order, I noticed I'd been overcharged for
this item ($10 in catalog.. $13 on invoice)  I called to inquire and the
woman who always answers said that their supplier had raised his prices
and I could either accept it or mail it back (at my expense).  I decided
to keep it.  A week later I tried it and found it to be defective, altho
it made a wonderful beer super-soaker  :(.  I called back and she said
that the whole batch was defective and she'd send a replacement.  This
too was defective but this time when I called I was told that I would
have to return it (at my expense) to get a replacement.  I did, and when
I called a week later to confirm receipt I was told that since I'd only
returned one, that no further refunds would be given.  I told her I
wasn't aware that she'd wanted the original, at which point she began
whining about her problems with her supplier.  I suggested that if her
supplier was more important than her customer, perhaps she was in the
wrong business.  She said tough shit, and I would not get a refund.

At this point, I'm out $15 with zero recourse.  I won't be doing any
further business with this so-called 'homebrew club'.  I now realize
that once they've got your credit card #, you're pretty much at their
mercy.  I've dealt with other mail-order businesses and on those rare
occasions when there were problems, they've been professional and
customer focussed.  The moral I guess is deal with a reputable,
established dealer and not a fly-by-night shoestring operation.

| WATCH OUT !  My dogma's driving my karma on the info super-highway  |
| ------------------------------------------------------------------- |
| JACK DAWSON    JSDAWS1   415 545-0299    CUSTOMER BILLING SYSTEMS   |

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 23 Jul 94 17:08:00 UTC
From: m.bryson2 at genie.geis.com
Subject: General thoughts..

  This is only lossely brewing related:
It seems to me that some people are taking the AB adds a little
too personally. Who cares if they bash homebrewers? Joe Bud will
still drink his swill; however, someone might become interested
in homebrewing because of the add( there are plenty who don't
realize you can brew at home). Besides, I think the add is kind
of funny...

Return to table of contents


Date: 24 Jul 94 05:22:24 MDT (Sun)
From: rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: Anchor and trademark stuff

No, really folks, some of this is relevant to homebrew, at least insofar
as beer styles and names matter...

[cf Koch] >...I have often wondered if Fritz Maytag is
> similarly guilty when it comes to the words "Anchor" and "Steam"...

> 1) Apparently Anchor claims that "Steam" is its exclusive descriptor for
> beer.  Yet, as I understand it, there were several steam breweries in
> California, Anchor merely being the last survivor...

To be specific, Anchor claims "Steam" as a registered trademark.  Yes,
there was a time "steam" was a style.  That was before we were born.
>...Years ago, as in Fred
> Eckhardt's "Treatise on Lager Beers," there were several recipes for
> "steam beer."...

Even for Fred, who is *really* one of the old crowd, there was no "steam"
beer in production in the US except for Anchor.  As far as I've been able
to find, Anchor has been the only producer of the Steam beer style at least
since Prohibition--and we're now 61 years after repeal.

Some of it is a "who got there first" argument...
It seems that Anchor established some reasonable right to use the term
"steam" for their beer, quite a while ago, with no contention.  In other
words, it's not as if they muscled their way up to the bar with Armani-clad
lawyers as bodyguards and said "the name is ours now; shove off".  Rather,
they simply made the ONLY steam beer in the US for so long that they came
to be associated with, and eventually to own, the name.  There wasn't any
competition; they got the moniker because they earned and used it, and
nobody else did, for many decades.  Remember, we're not talking '80's
neo-brewing here; Fritz Maytag was THE pioneer of modern microbrewing.

>...Nowadays that type of recipe is for "California Common
> Beer."  Is this the long arm of Mr. Maytag reaching into the homebrewing
> literature?

It's more the other way 'round.  "California Common" is not even a useful
term for a beer like Steam.  (The most "common" California beer would be
something on the order of a "west coast ale"--a pale ale with lots of hops
and probably Cascade standing out in the finish.  None of this character-
izes Steam.)  Unfortunately, folks wanted to try to make a beer like Steam
and needed a name for it; it was not a good thing to have the generic
category carry the trademarked name of a product.  After all, it would
hardly do to create a homebrewer's category for a stout with added lactic-
acid character and call it the "Guinness" category.  It's a real dilemma if
you want to brew to that style.  But on the other hand, there's only one
extant example of the style, and aspiring to duplicate that one example
seems a bit dull.

> 2) For a long time a beer named Anchor has been brewed in Singapore and
> Malaysia...[saga deleted]...beers disappeared...
> ...and when they came back there was no more Anchor.
> Was this because of Mr. Maytag? 

Well, why don't you find out and tell us?  The question you raise, even if
it's a good one (and likely, as trademark law goes) is still innuendo, with
nothing to support it.  "This beer went away years ago" isn't much to go
on.  It could be...but a shred of evidence would be comforting.

> The two beers are quite different, Malayan Anchor being a basic
> pilsener-type.  In the US, where Lowenbrau from Miller (licensed by
> Lowenbrau Munich) co-exists with Lowenbrau Zurich, it would seem possible
> to have both Anchors.

Just so.  And, does anyone know whether Maisel "Dampf" is still imported
under that name?  ("Dampf" is the German word for "steam".)

> If it is true that Mr.  Maytag has been vigorously and unfairly
> suppressing the competitive use of "Anchor" and "Steam" (what about
> "Beer")...
If pigs could fly...

Tell you what, let's leave the "vigorously and unfairly" for *after* we
determine that *any*thing is going on.  OK?

(OK, I'm a bit defensive about Anchor...because I think they've done an
awful lot of things *right*, and we homebrewers have benefited in various
ways.  And I particularly resent any comparison between Maytag and Koch
because I worked the "beer bimbo" episode at the Great American Beer
Festival years ago--when the Sam Adams folk determined to win the popular
vote with buxom females in short low-cut dresses [that's "tits-n-ass" to
you] intentionally pouring heavy.  Heavy pouring at a beer festival
translates to votes for the beer, but also directly to disaster on the
road afterward.  I can find a special place in hell for someone who'd get
people drunk and turn them loose, in return for an advertising advantage.
On the far other side, Anchor went *way* out of their way to bottle Old
Foghorn in half-size bottles because of the strength.)
- ---
Dick Dunn    rcd at eklektix.com   -or-   raven!rcd    Boulder, Colorado USA
   ...Simpler is better.

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 24 Jul 1994 8:00:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: BILL_MARKS at ids.net
Subject: Phil Miller's Offensive SIG line

I found Phil Miller's SIG line implying a national radio celebrity was a
Nazi and that Nancy Reagan uses drugs to be offensive, moronic and
completely inappropriate for this forum.  Looking at the final gravity of
your beer, the oak flavor you described and the boil-over, you should have
enough to think about without concerning yourself with politicizing the
HBD.  Save the excessive cuteness for the classroom.
Bill

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Date: Sun, 24 Jul 94 10:33:40 -0500
From: "Jeff M. Michalski, MD" <michalski_jm at rophys.wustl.edu>
Subject: Bacteriology


In HBD1481 Algis Writes :

>You must be careful about sanitation, however, since lactose is
>fermentable by lactic acid bacteria.

And in HBD1482 He also writes :

>I suspect either overdoing Cascade or Centennial hops or a citrobacter
>infection are your problems.


Citrobacter is a gram negative rod-shaped bacteria of the 
Enterobacteriaceae family.  Its name is derived from the 
fact that it can use citrate as its sole carbon source.  
It is not known to give "citrus" flavors in beer.  It is 
an opportunistic human pathogen and its presence in food 
or drink can give a (susceptible) individual diarrhea and 
rarely sepsis, a fatal blood infection.

Lactobaccilus is a gram positive rod-shaped bacteria of the 
Lactobacillaceae family.  Its name is derived from its 
endpoint of fermentation, that is LACTIC ACID.  Of course 
it can use lactose as a fermentation source, but it can also 
use other sugars and amino acids present in beer.  A brewer 
should exercise the same care when using lactose to sweeten 
a beer as he (or she) would with any other fermentable.  As 
always, careful sanitary techniques should be used to avoid 
the introduction of bacteria, yeasts, or other parasites 
that would spoil your beer.

The responses by Algis are typical of the misinformation he
so frequently feels he needs to air.  

JEFF M. MICHALSKI
michalski_jm at rophys.wustl.edu


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Date: Fri, 22 Jul 1994 18:50:27 -0500
From: rnarvaez at lan.mcl.bdm.com
Subject:  Kegging Beer

I know that this subject has been discussed here on the
digest and I apologize for using up bandwith with this post.
But unfortunately my archive of past digest have been purged
from my network and I can't get them back.

I have recently bought a small 6 cubic foot fridge. And I want
to start kegging my beer in those 5gal cornelous(sp?) kegs. I
have never done this and would like some advice on the
steps needed to do it right. I already have all of the
equipment, CO2, keg, regulator, and hoses.
Do I still prime with extract/cane sugar?
How long do I let the beer age in keg before drinking.
How do I get the beer to become carbonated. 
Any thing else I might need to know.

Please Email me at Rnarvaez at lan.bdm.com

Thanks for any help rendered.


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Date: Sun, 24 Jul 1994 15:44:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Phil Brushaber <pbrush at netcom.com>
Subject: Wort Volume Reduction Tip


Sometimes the simple tips are the best, so I will pass this along. 

This weekend I was doing a ten gallon batch and would normally boil in my 
ten gallon kettle. The volmue to boil was about 10 gallons -- too much
to boil in a ten gallon kettle and still have room for a rolling boil, so
I remembered a tip from one of my Mr. Wizard-like scidence classes.

Boil off of water occurs at the surface only regardless of the depth of 
the boil. The trick to more rapid reduction is to increase the amount of 
SURFACE of the boil. So what did I do? While boiling part of the wort in 
the ten gallon kettle out on the cajun cooker in the garage, I took a few 
gallons and boiled on the stove in the kitchen. By using four additional 
pots on four burners in the kitchen I was able to at least TRIPLE the 
surface area and achieved a MUCH more rapid reduction.

Finally after reducing the volume I added the "extract" from the other 
four pots to the main kettle at started my hop schedule.

Now I have to admit that this is a better tip for brewing in Maine in 
December than in Dallas in July (that boil-off really eats up the 
air conditioning), but it REALLY saves time in getting your full volume 
boils down to a manageable size quickly!
                                             pbrush at netcom.com


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Date: Sun, 24 Jul 94 22:40:58 EDT
From: 24-Jul-1994 2239 -0400 <ferguson at 55.329.ENET.dec.com>
Subject: corny (soda) keg o-rings, where to get 'em cheap

>Date: Fri, 22 Jul 94 8:55:49 EDT
>From: abaucom at fester.swales.com
>Subject: o-rings
>
>Does anyone have a good source for the large o-rings off the 5-gallon
>soda syrup containers?  Funny, they almost look like vacuum cleaner belts!

BCI in TN: 800-284-9410.  i can't remember what they go for, but $0.85
sticks in my mind.  $4.50 for those is utterly ridiculous!

	jc

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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 05:06:44 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Douglas Thompson <sioth01 at mailserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de>
Subject: 

unsub homebrew


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 09:46:33 +0300 (WET)
From: Paul Jeffrey <mspaulj at olive.mscc.huji.ac.il>
Subject: Low carbonation levels ??


Fellow quaffers,

First of all, many thanks to those who responded to my call for comments 
on the 'Beer Tree'. It appears that many people have similar set-ups (i.e. 
gravity feed tier system) and the consensus seems to point towards taking 
the basic concept and adapting it to suit available materials. My own 
Model 1.1 is now on the drawing board !!

Now...onto brewing itself. I appear to have a consistent problem with 
under-carbonation in my bottled finished product. Actually, under 
carbonation is probably the wrong term here....NO carbonation is more 
appropriate. Some data points. I brew extract based ales with partial 
mash additions, rack from primary bin to secondary bin and then bottle 
(using corn syrup as primer). Yeasts are from the extract kit (dry).

Daytime temperatures around here get up to 30 degrees C plus and I 
therefore have very quick fermentation processes (its not unusual for my 
brews to go from 1050 to 1008 within a week !!). My question is, would 
these conditions result in the yeasties being too weak to participate in 
any activity in the bottle ? Are they goiung dormant on me ? I have 
experimented with increased priming rates, temperature control of the 
bottled beer and even changed the type of caps I use...all to no avail.

Any and all suggestions would be appreciated.

TIA

PaulJ.

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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 17:49:38 EST
From: Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen <aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Strike water temp
Full-Name: Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen

Hawo

I remember seeing some nifty calculations about determining the 
required temp for strike water for single-infusion mashing (or 
any for that matter).  

Anyone got this info?  I really need to know the heat capacity of 
the grain I suppose.  

Even a bit of black magic "this works for me" recipe will do if
no-one has the figures.

Thanks

Aidan

- --

Aidan Heerdegen				

e-mail: aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au

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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 9:20:13 EDT
From: kain at pms505.pms.ford.com
Subject: beer machine help (fwd)

howdy:
 
we received a "beer machine" for a wedding gift and tried 
to make our first batch.  we washed all the parts, disinfecteted 
them with a bleach:water mixture (even the spatula we used), sealed
the thing up, poured in the mix, tap water (should we have used
distilled or boiled water?), the brewers yeast, and set it in a 
wash basin.  it was not moved or touched for it's five days of
fermenting, then we moved it into the fridge for two days of 
chilling.  it smelled rancid when we tried it last night and we 
noticed there was mold on the sides of the main container.  what
did we do wrong?

thanks

beckers

- -- 
Becki Kain		kain at cadcam.pms.ford.com	
(313) 248-6044	



- -- 
Becki Kain		kain at cadcam.pms.ford.com	
(313) 248-6044	

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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 9:58:10 EDT
From: Tim Lawson <lawson at clcunix.msj.edu>
Subject: brewing lagers

   I've been brewing ales for a couple of years now and was considering
buying my parents' old refrigerator for brewing lagers.  Can you lager
brewers tell me what you use for brewing lager beers?  Do I need a special
thermostat for maintaining consistent temperatures?  If you ferment a 5-gallon
batch in a closed refrigerator, how do you deal with the pressure build up from
the CO2 coming out of the carboy?  I would appreciate any advice you can give.
Tim Lawson
Cincinnati, Ohio
lawson at clcunix.msj.edu


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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 10:18:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Open Fermenters/sanitation

Mark writes:
> Thomas asks about sterility.  I usually sterrilize all brewing equipment,
> bottels, etc. before using them the first time using a fairly strong bleach
> sollution (as directed on the back of my bottle).  For subsequent batches,
> I don't feel it's necessary to sterrilize provided I clean equipment and 
> bottles immediately after use.  Rather, I sanitize using sodium bisulfite 
> (available from most brew supply stores) or as a last resort with a mild 
> bleach solution (directions for sanitization also on the bottle).  

Just a nit, but in the first part you say "sterilize", and in the second
"sanitize".  What you are doing in both cases is sanitizing.    

> Could someone that uses a HDPE (High-Density Polyethelene) Brute as a 
> fermenter please e-mail me or post instructions on where to get one and
> how to make it air-tight?  I want to find something that I can ferment
> 10 gallons of ale in, so I think that I want about an 11 to 12 gallon
> "Brute".

Making this airtight is not required.  Provided you use an adequate 
amount of healthy yeast, and decent sanitation, you can use the Brute as
an open fermenter, just let the top sit on, it need not make a tight
seal.  Be sure to move the beer as soon as primary is complete.  I 
never let my beer sit longer than 10 days in my open fermenter.  Also,
you should account for greater volume of krausen, up to 35% might
be required, or you will be mopping up a lot of blow off.  

Good brewing,

Jim Busch

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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 07:27:12 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: In Gott's Name ... (-:

People have called Gott, and their coolers are the only ones on the
market which have been specifically designed to hold cold or *hot*
drinks.  This is why they stand up to hot mashes better than other
coolers.

Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 10:42:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Raking the Lauter

Continuing on lautering:

> Jim writes:
> >Stirring the lauter is not great but it is also not bad.  What 
> >you want to do to increase efficiency/yield is to "knife" the
> >lauter beginning about halfway through the lautering.  Dont 
> >knife too deep, but by "rakeing" the grains you will help to 
> >eliminate channeling that can occur. 
> 
>I'm afraid I have to disagree with you Jim.  I contend that raking (sp?)
>would INCREASE channeling since the "knives" cutting through the grain
>bed would create channels (sort of like 3-D rivers) through the bed and
>that the sparge water would have a tendancy to continue to travel down
>these paths of least resistance.  Granted, this is not my area of expertise,
>but I've talked to my dad (his degree is in Civil Engineering where 
channeling
>through soil is the issue) about this and he seemed to agree that my theory
>on the grain bed is probaby valid.
> 
Al, I think you are brewing too many extract batches!!

It is quite a common sight to be in a brewery and see the rakes running
during the lautering stage.  Often, the rakes are run for a period during
the start of the lauter, then turned off for a period while the grain
bed is developed, then turned back on during the last half of the lauter.
A key feature of professional rakes is the fact that they can be raised
or lowered, and that the blades are horizontally and vertically knifing the
grains.  This is difficult to simulate in a small home brewery.  I have
read of lautering programs that specifically dictate the  height of the
rakes at specific intervals during sparging.  This can have a dramatic 
affect on extract yields, although the direct applicability to 5 gallon
lauter tuns is suspect.  

I just completed two back to back high gravity brews.  One was an Old
Ale and small beer.  The other was a Barley wine and small beer.  Both
used identical mash programs and grain bills.  The former had no 
raking of the lauter, while the latter did (knifing with a SS spoon,
cutting pie shaped pieces and circular cuts around the pieces, and
pushing the grains tight to the sides).  The gravities of the main
beers varied due to processing techniques, but the volume of runoff
was identical in both beers prior to diverting the sweet wort into
the small beers.  The first small beer was 13 Plato (not very small!),
while the second was 14 Plato!.  No doubt that some of the variance
was due to other factors than raking, but I cannot convince myself
that a whole degree plato increase was pure luck.  This may not 
apply to 5-10 gallon mash tuns, but it certainly has an effect in
my one barrel system, as it does in the 25 BBl tun at the Old Dominion 
Brewery.

Good brewing,
Jim Busch

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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 08:35:00 -0600
From: brian.wurst at aquila.com (Brian Wurst)
Subject: Bacteria

- ------------------------------
In HBD1483, Andrew Patrick writes:

>And in HBD1482 he [Al Korzonas] also writes :

>>I suspect either overdoing Cascade or Centennial hops or a citrobacter
>>infection are your problems.

>Al,

>Where DO you get your bacterial information.  Please cite some
>references. I find it interesting that the lactose fermentation with
>production of of CO2/or other gas of beer spoiling Lactobacillus was
>never mentioned in the Microbiology course at Siebel, and also that
>Citrobacter was never mentioned at all.

>Can anyone else confirm Al's suspicion based on the literal translation
>of the Genius name.

The microbiology text* I've got says Lactobacillus contains lactase
which splits the lactose molecule into its constituent molecules,
glucose and galactose.  These are fermentable by beer yeasts, where
lactose is not, hence the additional CO2 Al's talking about.  [BTW, How
much did you pay Siebel for a course which excludes such information?
Perhaps a Lacto- infection is not a thing that commercial brewers need
worry about or have to deal with (damifino), but it is a homebrewer's
problem.]

The same text* says that citric acid is produced industrially by
unspecified fungi (yeast are fungi also)...no mention of Citrobacter at
all.  Coulda been a wild yeastie, doncha think?

I suspect Citrobacter was a brain-fart on Al's part.  Go ahead and
tell us all you've never had one...But he's right that it's most likely
an infection.

*="Basic Microbiology with applications", T. Brock & K. Brock, 1973,
                                           Prentice-Hall

Brian Wurst            "Nature has formed you, desire has trained you,
brian.wurst at aquila.com  fortune has preserved you for this insanity."
                           -Cicero, 63 B.C.

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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 08:09:10 +0900
From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: Hello Roger

>Help! I am new to computers and I don't want to make too much unnecessary
>noise- I don't yet know the protocol or method to respond to the individual
>questions.  I am the brewmaster at a small California brewery (15 barrel brew
>length) and I would love to answer any questions.  I am RogerL4246 at aol.com.
> Cheers.
>

RogerL must be Roger Linde! Nice to see your interest and envolvement here
in the HBD. Since I know Roger and his beers pretty well (he hails from my
neck of the woods) I'll respectfully attempt to make his introduction. 

Roger and his brewery (Linde Brewing) make some of the west coast's best and
most consistently good ales. Roger is a previous homebrewer and now owns and
operates his microbrewery located in San Leandro, Ca. I would characterize
Roger as a seat-of-the pants/hands-on brewmaster. Roger is pretty much a one
man show at his brewery. Roger should be a great source for real practical
brewing information.

Don't worry too much about making mistakes here Roger, just jump in there
and have fun. Try not to get too burned out if your email box overflows.

Welcome aboard!

Bob Jones
bjones at novax.llnl.gov



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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 11:03:46 EDT
From: Nancy.Renner at um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Head retention with home malted wheat

 From *Jeff* Renner 
 
Some may remember that several months I wrote about home malting, 
specifically Michigan soft white winter wheat.  This generated a good deal 
of private e-mail interest, to which this is a follow up.  I suggested that 
since soft wheat has lower levels (~10%) of protein than hard wheat, and 
since the protein (80% of which is gluten in wheat) is weaker (good for 
biscuits, cookies, etc., bad for bread), that it would be good for brewing.  
Further, white wheat has fewer phenols and tannins in the bran (these are 
linked to pigment production), also good.  I had used this before in small 
amounts with good results. 
 
In June I double decot brewed (following Warner) 8 gallons of hefe weizen 
with 6 lb. home made wheat malt, 2 lb German wheat malt, and 4 lb. German 
Pils malt, OG 1.044, using YeastLab's weizen yeast then bottled with their 
Bavarian Lager yeast and 2-1/2 qts. speise for carbonation.  A real effort, 
with no short cuts.  It's appropriately highly carbonated, tastes great - 
complex, clovey, vanilla, (and, since I fermented at 60^F, only moderately 
medicinally phenolic and no banana, a flavor I dislike).  All in all, a fine 
beer organoleptically, but a great disappointment.   I am afraid I will have 
to christen it "John the Baptist Weizen," slightly thin bodied (wild honey 
and locust was all he ate, remember?) and *no head* (Salome had it brought 
to her on a platter)!  I mean, we're talking ginger ale appearance in 10 
seconds. 
 
I can see three related problems, all related to protein quality and all 
three probably involved to some degree. 
 
1)  Perhaps the protein profile of soft wheat is inappropriate to head 
formation and mouth feel.  However, raw soft white wheat has been used by 
members of the Ann Arbor Brewers' Guild to make fine Wits that had good head 
retention and mouth feel. 
 
2)  I fully (over?) modified the wheat malt.  At the time, I thought the 
only negative to this would be lower extract, but in light of George Fix's 
recent postings, this probably had a deleterious effect on mouth feel and 
head retention. 
 
3)  I gave this mash a carelessly long protein rest, 30 min at 50^C for 
whole mash and 60 minutes more for the thin portion while I raised boiled 
the thick portion. 
 
Number three, combined with #2 and possibly #1, probably resulted in the 
problems described.  I hope this experience can be useful to other brewers. 
 
Jeff in Ann Arbor

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Date: 25 Jul 1994 07:36:07 PST
From: "JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR" <JSDAWS1 at PB1.PacBell.COM>
Subject: apolofy

I'd like to apoplgize for the mulitiple postings I had on the same subject.
It was done because for 5 days these posts were dissapearing without a trace
so I kept attempting to re-post.   All the confirmation notices for 4 days
showed up in the monday-morning e-mail.

| WATCH OUT !  My dogma's driving my karma on the info super-highway  |
| ------------------------------------------------------------------- |
| JACK DAWSON    JSDAWS1   415 545-0299    CUSTOMER BILLING SYSTEMS   |

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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 11:13:39 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Mac Digest browsers.

If your Mac is on the Internet, you can search back HBDs with
MacMosaic or any other World Wide Web browser.  Just connect to
http://guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu (Spencer's Beer Page), then click on
"Search Homebrew Digests" and follow the instructions.  Of course,
this works from machines other than Macs, too.

=Spencer in Ann Arbor

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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 11:16:54 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: In Gott's Name ... (-:

Thanks to Richard Childers for an excellent discussion of the merits
of the Gott (tm) cooler.  I'd like to add one more reason why they're
good for mashing:  

The Gott is specifically designed to hold both cold and HOT beverages.
This is why it doesn't deform when you hit it with your mash.  After
warping the inside of my "picnic" cooler, I appreciate this feature.

=Spencer in Ann Arbor

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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 11:21:59 EDT
From: abaucom at fester.swales.com
Subject: Keg O-ring results...

Thanks to everyone who responded to my request for cheap O-rings and kegging
equipment.

The winners appear to be:

Braukunst        1-800-972-BRAU
Foxx             1-800-525-2484
BCI              1-800-284-9410
Maltose Expr.    1-800-MALTOSE

I am currently checking with these folks for catalogs and prices...

- ------
Andrew W. Baucom, abaucom at fester.swales.com

The Info-Superhighway, where people don't mind stopping to help you fix a flat!


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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 09:22:47 PST
From: huffmand at ccmail.orst.edu
Subject: Billowing clouds of yeast and sediment


          Yo Brewers,

          Kind of a basic problem; I recently sampled some "Scottish"
          ale I have had in the bottle for about 10 days. It tastes
          ok, but as soon as I open a bottle, the carbonation pulls
          *a lot* of yeast etc off the bottom. The beer gets very
          turbid and of course the drinking aesthetics are
          compromised.

          Is this a simple over-carbonation problem? Should I bleed
          some CO2 from the remaining bottles? Or, might the problem
          just go away if I ignore it long enough?

          Any help is appreciated, TIA,

          David Huffman ---------- "With proper technique, brewing
                                    fine beer shouldn't hurt"

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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 12:41:49 -0400
From: keithfrank at dow.com (R. Keith Frank)
Subject: Vanilla in Porter / New England Beer

First - someone requested info on using vanilla in porter/stout 1-2 weeks
ago, but I didn't see a summary post.  Please post or private E-mail.  
Thanks.

New England beer requests seem to come up frequently on the digest so I 
thought I'd throw in my $0.02 worth from a recent trip.  I received a great
response from my info request to HBD and used most of it.  All comments are
IMHO.

BOTTLED BEER

In Vermont my ranking of bottled beer would be
1.  Otter Creek
2.  Catamount
3.  Very distant 3rd - Long Trail

*McNeil's - excellent, just started bottling, but only available in 
Brattleboro, VT.

Otter Creek Copper Ale was recommended by many locals and was without a 
doubt the best bottled beer of the trip.  Can't compare it directly to other
beers but if you like Pete's Wicked Ale you would probably like this 
one.  Excellent balance of malt and hop bitterness.  We were lucky enough to 
get a 1/2 gallon of Porter at the brewery (seasonal, only bottled in Winter?) 
and it didn't last long.  The big surprise for me was the Summer Wheat
Beer.  I don't like traditional wheat beers, can't stand the clovey
flavor, but O.C. wheat had definite malt flavor as well as wheat and was
very drinkable.  Also available was Helles Alt which was very light, but at
least there was a hint of malt.   Unfortunately Otter Creek is only available
in Vermont, hope they expand distribution some day.  Tours are offerred.

Catamount beers weren't bad (Porter, Amber, Wheat), but didn't have the same
character as Otter Creek.

I can't figure out Long Trail's marketing strategy.  The Kolsch tasted
similar to megabeer offerrings, and the Pale Ale and IPA just didn't 
have much malt flavor for the style.  Why pay more for this brand when there 
are others available?  Wouldn't recommend them.  I didn't try the Stout.  

Maine

Geary's Pale Ale was good and widely available.

Aspiring microbrewers or ambitious homebrewers should visit Bar Harbor
Brewing Co. south of the city of Bar Harbor.  This a 2-barrel micro micro
in the basement of a house.  The brewer said it cost $50,000 for his set-up
(four conical SS fermenters, SS open kettle and mash tun, hand bottles
22 oz., buys pre-crushed grain).  Tours daily or by appointment.  The
Cadillac Mt. Stout (1.070 o.g.) and Ginger Beer were very good, Spouting Hole
Ale was OK.  Available various places in Maine, primarily along coast.

BREWPUBS

The three favorites were McNeil's (Brattleboro), Vermont Pub (Burlington), 
and Boston Beer Works.  McNeil's is bottling now, but only in Brattleboro.
These all lived up to their reputations.  Vermont Pub had a free taster
tray, never seen that before!

Others we liked - Sunday River in Bethel, Maine (Redstone Red Ale, Oatmeal
Stout), Lompoc Restaurant in Bar Harbor, adjacent to Acadia Brewing Co.
(Ginger Wheat, Cole Porter).  Acadia Brewing gets best T-shirt award - "Save 
the Ales" with a lobster fisherman throwing a life preserver to a smiling
whale holding a keg.

Wouldn't recommend Camden Brewing (Camden, Maine) or Commonwealth Brewing 
(Boston).


Bruce DeBolt
c/o keithfrank at dow.com

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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 09:44:05 -0700
From: hanna at uclac0.chem.ucla.edu
Subject: Re:  Brew Pubs in San Diego

I agree that Brewski's is probably the best in San Diego with the worst name.
Columbia has the best name and the most mediocre beer.  Hops in La Jolla is ok.
THere is also the Pacific Beach Brewing Company in Pacific Beach.  They aren't
bad either.  Have fun


 -Steve Hanna
HANNA at UCLACH.CHEM.UCLA.EDU
UCLA Dept. of Chemistry


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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 09:58:12 -0700
From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com>

Subject: I Gott it, I Gott it

In HBD #1484, richard childers a.k.a. (Conan-the-Librarian) talks at
length about Gott coolers. I wish I'd have known. I had agreed that
the ultimate tun design would be round and tall. However, my first
attempt was using an Igloo cooler. Be warned that these coolers are
NOT rated for high temperature. If you look at the manufacturer's
info _inside_ the carton, you find that higher temperatures (such as
found in brewers tuns) cause slagification. (my phrase only...)

Returned the Igloo (always save the recipt!), and moved onto Rubbermaid.
Boxy and square, rectangular and heat radiating. I use it, but I wish
I had known about Gotts...

Live and learn...
Rich Webb

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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 14:08:07 EDT
From: "" <scales at 134.174.145.3>
Subject: Maryland Brewpubs & Homebrewshops

 Hi, I have a friend moving to Maryland and would appreciate any info on 
brewpubs, homebrew shops, microbreweries or anything beer related in this area.
Please e-mail me directly, scales at bcmp.med.harvard.edu

scales at bcmp.med.harvard.edu


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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 15:48:27 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Bock, the Book

A review.

I picked up Darryl Richman's book _Bock_ (number ?9? in the AHA's
Classic Beer Styles series) on Friday.  Read it over the weekend.  Now
I know why my Bocks never turned out like the ones I buy.  Good, but
not quite on the mark.  This book has a wealth of information about
brewing ingredients and processes for making all the styles of Bock
beers, as well as an interesting and informative history of the style.
The text is enlivened and illustrated by excellent photographs, many
by the author (I wish I had his travel budget :-).

The bottom line is that making an excellent Bock beer requires an
investment of time, and a commitment to quality.  Start with the
highest quality ingredients: Pale lager malt and Munich malt, with
just a touch of chocolate malt (2 oz in 5 gallons) for color only.  A
triple decoction mash (6 hours+) and a long boil (2-3 hours) develop
the melanoidins necessary for the dark color and the intensely malty
flavor of a Bock beer.  A long, cool fermentation, starting with a
large, healthy yeast starter, and an extended lagering period give a
clean lager taste, despite the high starting gravity and alcoholic
content of the finished product.

For those who want an authentic Bock, but aren't willing to spend all
day mashing, the recipe section includes extract and infusion-mash
versions, as well.  Added crystal malt, together with the long boil,
provides color and a sweet maltiness that would otherwise have come
from the decoction.

The usual minor nits are present, including the almost useless
glossary that seems to be copied verbatim from one "Style" book to the
next.  For example, it seems as if all the books use the term
"reducing sugars," and the glossary still doesn't list it.

If you want to brew an award-winning Bock beer, or if you're just
interested in how it's made, you owe it to yourself to buy this book.

=Spencer in Ann Arbor

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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 17:32
From: KWH at roadnet.ups.com (KWH)
Subject: Cleaning glassware

There has been some talk recently about cleaning stains inside carboys.  A 
friend of mine who once worked in a diner gave me this tip about cleaning 
stained coffee pots:  Fill the pot 1/3 with ice; sprinkle powdered cleanser 
(such as Comet, Ajax, etc.) generously; add a very little amount of water; 
swirl this mixture until clean, and rinse.  This works wonders on stained 
coffee pots.  I have never tried this on carboys because I always rinse 
immediately and get any remaining particles with a carboy brush.  The only 
reservation I have on this technique is whether it would scratch the glass. 
 Does anyone know if this is a problem?  If it is not, it would be 
considerably easier than using a brush, and extremely effective.

Kirk Harralson


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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 13:51 EST
From: Jack Skeels <0004310587 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Initial results for on-demand Krauesening

A couple of months ago I made a post asking about the feasibility of doing
on-demand spiese creation.  That is, that I make some quasi-green beer to
prime a batch that I am bottling.  It had seemed to me that reserving some
hot wort at brew time was a pain-ITA, and that I might just cook up a batch
whenever I need it, rather than worry about preserving some of my original
wort.

Tha advice that I received ranged from: "Krauesening is really adding newly
fermenting wort (contains young, active yeast), called Spiese, to the batch
for priming", to "Why don't you try it and see?

Well, I tried in on my batch of PU-Clone, (Pilsener Ur...Skeels) hoping that
I would get those pin-point bubbles and the smooth carbonation that
everybody says you get from "real" Krauesening, and it seems to have worked.
The beer is a tribute to its heritage.  As a partial mash recipe, it is very
close to a real export-style taste and mouthfeel, with a nice fluffy head
made of tiny little bubbles.  A friend of mine even suggested that it tasted
like the real PU! (I died)

All of the bottles have a very nice stable carbonation, and it has been two
months since bottling.

What I did:

I used the tables at the back of TNCJOHB combined with the Krauesen formula
in Continental Lager (Miller?) to calculate what my priming rate should be. 
I boiled a pound or so of Alexander's PME for about 25 mins (in a quart of
water with 2 Saaz pelets), and cooled in the sink.  I then took the OG, and
measured the correct quantity, and poured it into my bottling bucket.

I'm pretty new to brewing, but not so new as to think that my one attempt
establishes this as a good approach.  I do think that I have demonstrated
that it is at least viable.  I think it would be real interesting to do a
sample run using a split batch: group one would be primed with corn sugar,
group two would be primed with malt extract, group three would be primed
with boiled extract, and group four would be primed with reserved wort, and
group five would be primed with "real" Spiese.  Any brewclubs want to take
this on?

Jack Skeels
JSKEELS at MCIMAIL.COM

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Date: 25 Jul 1994 16:17:02 -0800
From: "Scott Majdecki" <Scott_Majdecki at pdxml1.mentorg.com>
Subject: Washington DC Area Pubs/Clu

                      Washington DC Area Pubs/Clubs
A fellow Oregon homebrewer and I will be traveling to the Washington DC
area August 15 - 18 and we were looking for recommendations for good brew
pubs in the area. Specifically, we will be in the Crystal City area, but
we would be interested in any DC area pubs.

Also, if there any area brew clubs having a meeting any of those evenings,
we would be interested in attending. Samples of my recent Stout effort
would be brought and shared.

Thanks in advance,

Scott Majdecki
scott_majdecki at mentorg.com



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1485, 07/26/94