FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Re: IBU's (Tel +44 784 443167)
  Re: Plastic Fermenter Help Neede (Tel +44 784 443167)
  Reusable bungs for Mini Keg (Chris Strickland)
  RE: Cascades in Anchor Steam clone??? (Jim Dipalma)
  Carboy airspace (BUKOFSKY)
  Re: 5 liter mini-keg questions (Mark A. Stevens)
  What kind of infection? (Dan Wood)
  Re: 5 liter mini kegs (djt2)
  Re: minikeg priming question (uswlsrap)
  re: minikeg priming question (uswlsrap)
  Vancouver pubs? (uswlsrap)
  ring around the carboy ! (newbe questions) ("Brian Ellsworth, 203-286-1606")
  Saint-Louis reply and urge censors to get a life or at least beer (uswlsrap)
  Re: Plastic Fermenter Help Neede (Mark A. Stevens)
  Re: mild ale recipe request (Mark A. Stevens)
  Warner and "Attenuation" (Ed Hitchcock)
  Re: Lots of stuff (Jim Busch)
  The (new??) coolers: Refreshing MALT beverage (David Lyle Robinson)
  Wyeast 1968 (Jeff Frane)
  Bittering hops (Ed Hitchcock)
  Saaz (npyle)
  counter-pressure bottle fillers ("Dan Houg")
  making agar plates (Montgomery_John)
  New Papazian (GARY SINK 206-553-4687)
  CHARLIE PAPAZIAN VISITS BOSTON (Steven D. Porter)
  Jim Koch Bashing (Charles Anderson)
  Bittering with (uszvnrl6)
  Bitterness calculations (Bryan L. Gros)
  Hunter T'stat mod ("MICHAEL L. TEED")
  Beerland? (timothy m robic)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 11:29:40 +0000
From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167)
Subject: Re: IBU's


In HBD 1490, djones at iex.com (Douglas R. Jones) wrote:
> Thanks to those who sent me repsonses about IBU's. I really
> appreciated it! Brian Gowland gave a nice summary in short
> bandwidth. But, took me slightly to task for using Saaz as
> a bittering hop.
> [snip]
Hi Doug,
     apologies if it sounded like I was telling you off for
using Saaz for bittering - it wasn't intended that way. Saaz
in the UK are more expensive than other hops and are regarded
as giving good aroma and flavour so I wouldn't spend the extra
if I was simply bittering. If they aren't more expensive where
you are then that's differnet but it still seems a shame to do
it. You mention a figure of 4.6% AAU, my book says 5.5% (maybe
different units) but that is still not very high. There are
many others including "high-bittering" hops with percentages
of 9%-12%. Hops are generally categorised as aroma, general
purpose, bittering or high-bittering. Saaz is considered as
an aroma hop. I normally "bitter" with general purpose hops but
for a high bitterness would use bittering or high-bittering
hops for economy and convenience.
Cheers,
     Brian


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Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 11:41:26 +0000
From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167)
Subject: Re: Plastic Fermenter Help Neede


In HBD 1490 Phil Miller <C616063 at MIZZOU1.missouri.edu> wrote:
> I am going to buy a carboy very soon, but was thinking of
> using my old (7month, 5 brew) plastic fermenter for primary
> or secondary fermentation. The problem is, I can't get the
> old-fermented-beer smell out of the plastic.
> [snip]
     Many people have negative views about plastic for brewing
for one reason or another. I have about half a dozen 5 gallon
plastic fermenting bins (one is 3 years old) and 3 5 gallon
plastic pressure barrels, all of which have a permanent beer
smell. I don't notice any problems with using them either from
an infection point of view or tainting of flavour. They work
for me!
 
Cheers,
     Brian


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Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 09:05:50 -0400
From: stricklandc at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov (Chris Strickland)
Subject: Reusable bungs for Mini Keg

The reusble bung I have has a center piece that is pushed out
when inserting the tap.  So I don't have to remove the bung (exposing the
beer to air), is there a problem if I push the center piece
(hard rubber/plastic) into the keg when I insert the tap.  Or will it leave a
rubber/plastic taste in my beer.  I don't expect the beer to last any longer
than a week after being tapped.

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Chris Strickland               |   Allin1: stricklandc                      |
| Systems Analyst/Statistician   |   Email : stricklandc at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 09:23:12 EDT
From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma)
Subject: RE: Cascades in Anchor Steam clone???


    Hi All,

    Dick Dunn writes:

>Regarding the couple of copies of recipes just recently posted for homebrew
>"clones" of Anchor Steam:  I don't understand using Cascade hops.  It just
>doesn't seem to fit at all.

    I've spoken to a couple of homebrewers who took the Anchor tour, and
they both said the same thing, Northern Brewer for bittering, Hersbrucker
Hallertau for the late additions. No mention of Cascades.

>Now, I'm not one of the folks who reviles Cascades; in fact I like them a
>whole bunch in pale ales.

    Ditto, Cascades are just right for American pale ales, I use liberal
amounts when I brew that style.

>They're got a distinctive taste that I really
>like.  BUT because they're so distinctive, and because Anchor Steam so
>obviously doesn't have any of that distinctive character,

    Cascades produce a strong citrusy, grapefruit-like flavor and aroma,
which I don't pick up in Anchor steam. The aroma of Anchor steam is quite
floral, seems to me to be very much like Hallertau. That's what I use for
flavor and aroma additions when I brew steam beer.
    Anyone have inside info on this?

    Thanks,
     Jim          dipalma at sky.com

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Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 09:54:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: BUKOFSKY <sjb8052 at minerva.cis.yale.edu>
Subject: Carboy airspace

I've got a batch of mead that has been aging in the carboy for a few 
months after fermentation was finished.  It's been racked several times, 
so I doubt that there is any more CO2 headspace on top of the mead.  The 
mead is several inches below the carboy neck, and I was wondering if I 
should be concerned about oxidation.  I was planning to let the mead sit 
for another few months (I'm lazy), but will I be in trouble?

Thanks,
Scott

No cute comment.

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Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 09:55:28 EDT
From: Mark A. Stevens <stevens at stsci.edu>
Subject: Re: 5 liter mini-keg questions


In HBD 1490, John Williams <jwilliams at hartford.edu> asked
about a deal for buying 5 liter mini-kegs for $55 for 4
with plastic tapper & CO2 cartridge.

This is the Datagraf tapper, right? I understand that these
are okay for short time periods, but that you can't rely
on it to hold pressure in the keg for longer periods, i.e.,
more than a day or two. There is, however, a solid metal
version that is considerably more expensive (I believe 
about $55 just for the tapper) that, according to Gene
Thomas, owner of the Brew Pot in Bowie MD, is more
reliable and can hold pressure longer. (Better do SOMETHING
for the higher price...thought it DOES look pretty ;-)

I've seen the plastic tappers sold by themselves for about
$16. What I'd do is buy that, and then go to my friendly
local beer outlet and buy 5 litre kegs full of beer and
then use the empties. Local stores in my area are selling
various brands, such as Warsteiner, DAB, Grolsch etc. for
anywhere from $11 to $15 per keg. 4 filled kegs will
therefore run you about $50-60, plus the $16 cost of the
tapper, and hey, for a little more $$ you get LOTS of
good beer to drink as a bonus!

Why buy empties?

Cheers!
- ---Mark Stevens
   stevens at stsci.edu  

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Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 09:07:14 CDT
From: wood at ranger.rtsg.mot.com (Dan Wood)
Subject: What kind of infection?

[Swallowing my pride and clearing my throat]  My name is Dan Wood and
I've made infected homebrew.

My fellow FVHAA homebrewers and I have suffered from identical infections
on all too many occasions.  While we have unaffectionately dubbed this
malady "the funk", I'm hoping that someone can identify it, based on
the clues below.  Knowing our enemy would certainly help morale, and
could assist in eliminating the problem.

The facts:

1. I'd guesstimate that between us, about 2-4 batches per hundred are
affected to varying degrees.  Way too much brew is being used as
drain cleaner.

2. The infections mostly occur in brews made in late spring and summer.

3. We do full boils, good sanitation, etc.  Most of us brew in our
basements.

4. It smells of rotting vegetables (definitely not HSA), and has a slightly
sour taste.  The smell is much worse then the taste.

5. The degree of infection grows exponentially with longer lag times.

6. The infection has been present in both hazy and clear beers.  It does
not create gushers.  There are no visible indications of infection.

7. It seems independent of the yeast: whether dry yeast (usually Yeastlabs
Whitbread) or generous Wyeast starters were used.

8. It has happened regardless of whether the siphon was started by
mouth-to-straw or prefilling the hose with water.

9. It is evident in the primary carboy, not caused by racking, kegging,
or bottling.

10. It has been carried from one batch to another where yeast from the
secondary was reused.  This happened once, I've stopped reusing yeast.

I managed to avoid it on my last batch (fingers crossed) through use of
extreme sanitation procedures: 1+ hour bleach-water soaks, rinsing in
preboiled water, misting all surfaces with vodka, etc.

The option of not brewing in spring/summer is very painful to me.

Many, many thanks in advance for any information and advice.

Dan Wood		humble(d) brewer, FVHAA		wood at cig.mot.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 10:19:59 -0400
From: djt2 at po.cwru.edu
Subject: Re: 5 liter mini kegs

A couple of folks have asked about the 5 l mini kegs. My experience with
these has been mixed, and mosly poor.

I have had three problems.
        1) the tap doesn't seal well, unless pressed closed by thumb, not easy
with a glass of brew in hand

        2) The CO2 cartridge leaks; I must use a new cartridge if kept more
than a day or so.

        3) It is extremely easy to overcarbonate the cans. I bulged out 4
cans over the last few months, though have had no disasters. This is
certainly avoidable if you use a low (very low) amount of priming sugar,
but once I bulged a can when the yeast was simply slowly attenuative (it
bulged only after 6 months storage). Notably, overcarbonated kegs are
*very* difficult to dispense.

Overall, these cans are an alternative to a kegging system, but not a
perfect one. I recently bought a real keg system; I guess I've ruined any
chance of selling off my mini-keg system to HBD'ers by the above discourse.

dennis



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Date: Tue, 02 Aug 94 10:39:27 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: Re: minikeg priming question                                     

- ----------------------- Mail item text follows ---------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino
      Research Analyst
Subject: Re: minikeg priming question

Bob Paolino
Transplanted in Badgerspace
*** Forwarding note from PAOLIRA --WILISVM1 08/01/94 10:58 ***
To: I1002526--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino
      Research Analyst
Subject: Re: minikeg priming question

J.Strickland asks about priming for bottling and 5l-canning:

I've used the "minikegs" marketed by a mailorder homebrew store in
Pennsylvania with some success (that is after getting a cracked part on
the tap replaced, which they did very promptly, and after playing around
with the "regulator" for the CO2 cartridge. I say _some_ success,
because it appears the cans may not withstand reuse--after cycling
through the four cans, I had a can "deform" on the first reuse. They're
a nice idea, but don't necessarily work so well in reality.).

You say that the priming recommendation is 1/4 cup for 5l-canning and
3/4 cup for bottling? My instructions said to use about _half_ as much
for the 5l cans as for bottling.

I wouldn't worry much about bottling and canning from the same batch.
I'd never want to put an entire batch in the cans anyway--the cans
aren't always very portable for some purposes, it's certainly not a
standard competition size, and it's not very good for stashing away a
sixpack or two for deferred consumption. When I first used one, I
decided to go with an in-between figure for priming and it worked just
fine.

But one reason it works for me is that I would never consider using 3/4
cup per 5 gallon batch. I don't know where that amount ever came from,
but I consider it WAY too much. If I want a HIGHLY carbonated brew I
might use 1/2 cup. Typically, however, I use 1/3 cup or less for
bottling a 5 gallon batch (or the 4.5 gallons or so that remain after
racking) and the carbonation and head are just fine. With that amount of
priming sugar, thre's no problem diverting 5l to a can. Remember, your
instructions were for 1/4 cup anyway. That it might end up a little more
carbonated than the bottled product is of some benefit because it will
be that much longer before you will have to use a CO2 cartridge to
dispense the beer.

BUT WHILE WE'RE ON THE SUBJECT, let me throw out the question. Does
anyone actually prime with 3/4 cup for 5 gallons??

Bob Paolino
Transplanted in Badgerspace

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Date: Tue, 02 Aug 94 10:41:16 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: re: minikeg priming question                                     

- ----------------------- Mail item text follows ---------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino
      Research Analyst
Subject: re: minikeg priming question

Bob Paolino
Transplanted in Badgerspace
*** Forwarding note from PAOLIRA --WILISVM1 08/01/94 11:09 ***
To: I1002526--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino
      Research Analyst
Subject: re: minikeg priming question

(Sorry, I hit the "send" key when I intended to hit the "page forward"
key--F9 v. F8--and didn't finish the question about whether people
actually use 3/4 cup)

Does that recommendation assume (as might have been the case in the
early days of legal homebrewing) that beginners would brew at home to
save money on swill rather than to brew nonswill styles, and the massive
amounts of priming sugar were needed for the more highly carbonated
swillish styles??? Or do lagers (which I don't brew for lack of low
temperature control) require more because the yeast is less active over
the long lagering periods and cooler temperatures??  Any other ideas why??

Bob Paolino
Transplanted in Badgerspace

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Date: Tue, 02 Aug 94 10:41:20 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: Vancouver pubs?                                                  

- ----------------------- Mail item text follows ---------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino
      Research Analyst
Subject: Vancouver pubs?

Bob Paolino
Transplanted in Badgerspace
*** Forwarding note from PAOLIRA --WILISVM1 07/29/94 10:35 ***
To: I1002526--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino
      Research Analyst
Subject: Vancouver pubs?

Let me add my two cents on the Seattle/Vancouver question:

First, if anyone DOES know of anything in Vancouver, let me know because
I haven't found anything great out there. I have yet to get a tour at
Granville Island on two attempts. The first time, they were doing
repairs, but I was graciously offered samples so I could decide what I
might want to pick up at BC Liquor. Fair enough. The second time (on a
separate tripto the city) they were offering tours again, but only once
per day (even though the sign says TOURS (plural) daily and we missed
it. The other person with me on that trip had not had the beer before,
and we were flat out refused a sample from the tap (it's not a bar--the
taps are there for customer samples). There's supposedly another brewery
in the city, but I'm not sure what it is (anyone out there?) The brewpub
that was once apparently in Horseshoe Bay, near the ferry terminal, is
no more, but there is a pub with a few decent ones. Try the Okanagon
Spring brews, particularly the Stout and Porter. Skip the underhopped
pale ale.

If you want to see brewpubs in BC, cross over to Victoria. Spinnakers is
the first. I understand they've changed brewmasters at least once, and
what I had a couple years ago didn't live up to the reviews of a club
member who hadbeen there years before. Still, it's a nice place and the
beer is FAR from lousy. While we were having dinner there, I asked a
waiter if there were any other brewpubs in town. He said we'd probably
find many of the Spinnaker's staff at Swan's when they were done with
work. The beer there was (one that visit anyway) better, but the food
and service were worse. There's another brewpub (or "cottage brewery" as
they're often called) nearby in Saanich. They were planning to bottle,
pending licences, when I stopped in. Don't remember the name, but the
road to it was signed off Route 17 (?)

Hope this helps. I hope also to hear about any decent places in
Vancouver.

Cheers

Bob Paolino
Transplanted in Badgerspace

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Date: 02 Aug 1994 10:42:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Brian Ellsworth, 203-286-1606" <ELLSWORTH%BRAVO at utrcgw.utc.com>
Subject: ring around the carboy ! (newbe questions)

Subject: More newbe stuff!

Hiya !

Thanks to everyone for the responses to my questions about wort
coolers. It seems this is much more of a concern with all grain
brews, and a bit less significant when extract brewing.

Well.... I hate to say it, but i think i'm worried :)

I made up a new batch about a week ago. It was a fairly expensive
concoction using about 6+ lbs of a bavarian malt extract, and 3.3
lbs of a dark malt. It also has 1 lb of crystal malt, and 1/2 lb
of chocolate, (roasted) malt. I mini mashed the grain, without
much regard for sanitation. Seemed to me that if i was planing on
boiling the thing for 75 mins or so, sanitation at this stage
wasn't too important. I also thought i'd experiment with a 'heavy
hopping' schedule, and added a total of 5 oz (wow!) of a variety
of hops, at various times over the 75 min boil. Northern brewer
for bitterness, etc.... Just as an note, we have a new water
system, so rather than risk using the home well water i picked up
5 gallons of locally bottled spring water.

I used a lager yeast (first time for this type) and a champagne
yeast for a little kick. I've used the champagne yeast before,
it's interesting, and very active. Both were a dried yeast, using
a quart or so of boiled water cooled to 110F as a starter.

A couple of bad things happened.

1 - I attempted to strain the wort when transferring to the
fermenter. I used a boiled cheesecloth bag, and sanitized the
strainer. I don't think i'll ever do this again. The combination
of heavy hopping (pellets!) and the grain really clogged up the
strainer. I was concerned (not worried yet!) about the amount of
'handling' this operation caused. It would be better to just let
the excess hops and fine grain particles not filtered in the mash
straining, settle in the bottom... oh well..

2 - I just bought a new plastic fermenter with a spigot in the
bottom. It seemed like a great idea, but now i'm not too sure. I
used a plastic bag to cover the spigot during primary
fermentation. BUT, when i went to transfer, apparently, a small
amount to wart leaked out into the plastic. The bag was NOT
sanitized... This may have started a nice bacterial growth.

3 - Argh! I'm using a 'S' type fermentation lock. After setting
up the plastic bucket and putting some water in the lock i moved
the bucket on the table a tad and slurp! the water got sucked out
of the lock and into the wort ! Argh! The lock was sanitized, the
glass i used to fill the lock with wasn't.

A calamity of errors ! Then, the dreaded result!

I racked to the secondary fermenter after about 5 days after the
activity seemed reduced. The yeast had settled to the bottom, and
the top of the wort was clear. My secondary fermenter is a 5 gal
glass carboy. I tasted the wort when i moved it. I'm really not
accustom to the heavy hops, and obviously, the yeast suspension
level was very high, so it's difficult for me to tell much at
this point.  My concern is, there was pronounced bitterness, and
a sour (?) taste? With so many new flavors, it's difficult to
trust my novice taste buds!

Now after just a day or so in the carboy, there is a hazy ring
around the top of the carboy right at the level of the brew. I've
never had this ring before. Is this bacterial contamination? I'm
not surprised if it is. Should i just trash it, do a 24hr bleach
sanitation of everything and start over? Is it possible to
salvage this batch? I'm reluctant to bottle and create a batch of
'crud-ringed' bottles...


 -brian e.      (ellsworth%bravo at utrcgw.utc.com)


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Date: Tue, 02 Aug 94 10:43:25 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: Saint-Louis reply and urge censors to get a life or at least beer

- ----------------------- Mail item text follows ---------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino
      Research Analyst
Subject: Saint-Louis reply and urge censors to get a life or at least beer

Bob Paolino
Transplanted in Badgerspace
*** Forwarding note from PAOLIRA --WILISVM1 07/27/94 13:36 ***
To: I1002526--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino
      Research Analyst
Subject: Saint-Louis reply and urge censors to get a life or at least beer

This isn't _exactly_ what Darren Tyson was asking, but I want to correct
the possible misinterpretation that Saint-Louis remains a complete beer
wasteland. I would have agreed completely when I was a student at
Washington University (graduated mid-1980s). Back then, the only nearby
source for decent beer was asmall "gourmet" grocery/liquor store in
Clayton, and even then it meant getting imports.

Since then, of course, the city has Dave Miller's place, Saint-Louis
Brewing, which I've visited a number of times on my two trips to
Saint-Louis this year. There's also J.D. Nick's brewpub in O'Fallon, IL.

On the question of what I would drink if the choices were unpleasant....
No, I don't bother at the ballpark, except our local minor league (VERY
minor league) team, which serves Capital Brewery products in addition to
Budswill. If I'm at County Stadium watching the, yes, Brewers. They
don't have anything I'd enjoy, so why pay over $3 for it? If I'm in a
bar, I might resort to a Sam Adams if it was that desperate a situation.
If I'm in a music club or in a bar after, say, playing hockey, and the
focus is not at all on the drinking itself, maybe I'll have a Berghoff
(if I'm even that lucky) or worse, but I won't drink very much of
it--only enough to be "social." In general, I'd rather have water, or at
the ballgame, I'll take my parking stub to get the two free sodas for
designated drivers.  I don't drink for the buzz, I drink to enjoy flavour.

On getting a life for censors..... The person who complained about the
Doonesbury reference to Rush Limbaugh in a .sig line doesn't seem to
show much tolerance for free speech. I don't think the original writer
was making a deliberate attempt to inject his politics in a beer forum.
The post was within the scope of a beer forum, and the .sig line
probably goes out on all his email. I think that the "Dittoheads" seem
to be just a little too sensitive to the slightest bit of criticism. I
suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

Bob Paolino
Transplanted in Badgerspace

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Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 10:49:03 EDT
From: Mark A. Stevens <stevens at stsci.edu>
Subject: Re: Plastic Fermenter Help Neede


In HBD 1490, Phil Miller, <C616063 at MIZZOU1.missouri.edu> asks what
to do with his old plastic fermenter when he moves to glass carboys.
 
 
Well Phil, if it's still in good shape and you didn't have an infection
problem with it, I'd keep the old plastic fermenter around and maybe
use it as a priming vessel. If you bottle, you could drill a hole near
the bottom and install a valve.

Cheers!
- ---Mark Stevens
   stevens at stsci.edu

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Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 10:51:59 EDT
From: Mark A. Stevens <stevens at stsci.edu>
Subject: Re: mild ale recipe request


In HBD 1490, Patrick Casey (pacasey at lexmark.com) asked for help
in making a mild ale.

Here's an excellent recipe that comes from Daniel McConnell of
the Ann Arbor Brewers Guild. It appears on page 62 of the new
beer recipe collection "Homebrew Favorites" (Storey Publishing,
1994, ISBN 0-88266-613-4). (Ask me for info on this).

MILD BROWN ALE
==============

This is a low gravity brown ale that has moderately sweet palate,
but plenty of chocolate, nutty flavor. This is my personal favorite
recipe for fast-making, fast-drinking beer. It is not a competition
style beer, due to its low gravity, although I think it would do well 
in the "mild" categories. It is best if it is carbonated at a low
level. The flavor peeks in about 4 weeks, so it should be consumed
very quickly.

Yield: 10 gallons  Total boiling time: 60 minutes  O.G.: 1.034

9 pounds Briess 2-row malt
3/4 pound light crystal malt
1 pound Munich malt
1/2 pound chocolate malt
2 ounces black patent malt
7/8 ounce Northern Brewer hops (10% alpha, boil 60 minutes)
1/2 ounce Cascade hops (5.9% alpha, boil 20 minutes)
1 ounce Hallertauer hops, steep
3/4 ounce oak chips, in boil 20 minutes
Yeast Lab A01 Australian in a pint starter
1 cup, corn sugar for priming

Single infusion mash at 154 F for 45 minutes. Draw off thin mash,
boil, and return to hit strike of 170 F. Add the chocolate and
black malt at mash-out. Sparge. Bring wort to a boil and add Northern
Brewer hops. Boil for 40 minutes and add Cascade and oak chips. Boil
another 20 minutes and turn off heat. Add Hallertauer. Cool, transfer
to primary fermenter, and pitch yeast. Ferment 5 days at 68 F.
Prime with 1 cup corn sugar and bottle.

Cheers!
 ---Mark Stevens
    stevens at stsci.edu


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Date: Tue, 02 Aug 1994 12:02:22 -0300
From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH at ac.dal.ca>
Subject: Warner and "Attenuation"

>When is a wort "fully attenuated"??  I always thought that meant when it had
>fermented out, but in Warner's book on wheat beers he talks about racking a
>beer when it is fully attenuated -- 48 to 72 hours by his reckoning.  I have
>lag times that long and my primaries usually last about a week.

	I've also notice the occasional spec like: 
		OG- 1050
		FG- 1015-1020
		Apparant attenuation- 85%

	This of course makes no sense.  He also makes a few conflicting 
remarks about sweet finish, high remaining carbohydrates, and high 
attenuation and dry finish.  Okay, so the book is a litle messed up in 
places.  Still a decent reference if you recognize the condradictions as 
such.

*-Ed Hitchcock---ech at ac.dal.ca---*  Mares drink Grolsch and does drink 
*-Anat.&Neurobio.---Dalhousie-U.-*  Koelsch and little lambs drink Lambic.
*-Halifax--NS--Can---------------*  Ed'll drink Lambic too, wouldn't you?

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Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 11:17:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Lots of stuff

> Subject: Cascades in Anchor Steam clone???

Nope, Northern Brewer.

> Subject: Wyeast ESB 1968 and Sodium Metabisulphite
> 
> W1968          London ESB ale yeast. Highly flocculant top-fermenting strain 
> with rich, malty character and balanced fruitiness. This strain is so 
> flocculant that additional aeration and agitation is needed. An excellent 
> strain for cask-conditioned ales.
> Flocculation - high; apparent attenuation - 67-71%.  (64-72F)
> 
> It sure is flocculant! It sets like putty on the bottom of the fermenter and 
>literally has to be scraped off! This type of yeast is probably the reason why 
>all the English homebrew books talk about "rousing your wort". I believe it is 
> also common in English breweries to have big open fermenters with mechanical 
> stirrers to perform this "rousing". Obviously this introduces a lot of oxygen 
> (shock, horror), but oxidation does not necessarily cause cardboard flavours 
> overnight - IMHO it can simply lead to poorer keeping qualities for your beer
 . 
>I believe that if the beer is consumed within a couple of months of 
> fermentation (as I believe many English real ales are - not dissimilar to my 
> homebrew!) that this oxidation is inconsequential.

Im not sure about mechanical stirring, but I do not believe that any rousing
of the primary fermenter is going to oxidize your beer.  Theres just too
much CO2 both being evolved and in solution of the beer.  The key is to 
minimize any splashing of the beer surface, which could stir in O2.  If you
were introducing O2, it would likely show up in the beer.

This is certainly a great type of yeast for cask conditioned ales.  Once you
are satisfied with a recipe and know the terminal gravities, then it is
a game of racking the beer into the cask when the terminal gravity is 
within 1-2 Plato, depending on the amount of carbonation one wants in the
cask.  The fact that it slowley drops the last few degrees is a key reason
that the yeast is ideal for cask ales.  Think about how quick a brewer would
need to be if this technique were used with American ale yeast, 1056.

> Subject: mild ale recipe request

I would suggest the following.

English Ale Malt for OG of 1.055 (13.8P)
1/2 pound of UK crystal
some brown malt, or a combo of more crystal and a touch of chocolate.
Mash at 158 for one hour with no protein rest.

Boil wort 1.5 to 2 hours or longer, depending on amount of carmelization
desired.  

Counterflow chill and dilute to 1.034 ish (8.5P).  Ferment with London
ESB and serve on cask hand pump!.  
> 
> P.S. I'm willing to decoction mash if that'll contribute to the
> flavor.

Nope, never done in the UK.  The color malts are merely a guess. I 
have never brewed this myself.

> In lieu of The Great Keg Debate <g>, someone recently questioned
> whether yeast strains are protected by patent, copyright, etc. 
> The technical answer is that they can be; the practical answer is
> that for the most part they are not.
> 
> If someone truly "invents" a new yeast strain (critical term:
> "invent" -- simply "finding" or isolating one won't cut it), then
> they could apply for a patent.  (Many commerical crop and plant
> varieties are so protected.)  If the application were allowed by
> the patent office, then the yeast would be protected by patent, and
> any use of the covered strain without a license from the patent
> holder would be patent infringement (a/k/a a *very* bad idea).

Animals were, until recently non patentable.  Genetic engineering has
changed all of this.  For a product to be patentable it must be
non obvious to one of ordinary skill in the art, and serve a useful
purpose, ie work.  For a yeast strain to be patentable it would have
to have been modified/constructed in some fashion to be different.
This could include the process of genetically altering the DNA so
that the yeast could metabolize non traditional fermentables (can
you say dry beer?).  Now, this is not sufficient in and of itself.
A Patent Examiner (I used to be one in a former life), can take the
"teachings" of another patent, say the one that describes how to
genetically alter DNA to do a similar result as is claimed in the
application, and combine it with another reference to result in 
an "obviousness" rejection under section ??103??   A quite typical
day in the life of an examiner.

> However, to the best of my knowledge, none of the yeast strains of
> interest to brewers are covered by patent, and so they are
> generally fair game to be recultured and sold.

I think this is quite true.
> 
> One important caveat: even if a yeast is not protected by patent,
> it still may be someone's trade secret that is entitled to some
> protection.  For example, if you used to work for X Brewing Co. and
> snuck out a sample of their secret yeast which you then reculture
> and begin selling, X Brewing may be able to stop you.  Key here is
> how you got the yeast -- reculturing it from a bottle of X Brewing
> Bottle Conditioned Ale is OK, but covertly taking a sample during a
> visit to the brewery probably is not.  The same analysis can also
> apply to a brewery's recipes, which is why every micro and brewpub
> probably should have written nondisclosure agreements with its
> employees.

Trade secrets are an entire diff bag of hops.  Patents, lose thier 
protection after 17 years, while  trade secrets last the life of
the secret. Thats why Coke has never patented its formula, it would
have lost it around 1910.  Fortuneatly in brewing this kind of
"secret yeast" is nonsense.  There are just not that many strains
that meet the brewers requirements.  And if you did sell brewery
X's yeast, how would anyone be able to prove it beyond a reasonable
doubt?

> 
> however, that it may also be possible to have smaller (8 gallon
> volume, 6 gallon batch capacity) versions molded in bulk from
> food-grade plastic at a reasonable price, although my personal
> preference would be to use glass.  (Doing vessels of this size in
> stainless steel would simply be too expensive.)  My questions: (1)
> What sayeth the collective wisdom of the HBD as to the best type of
> plastic to use (polycarbonate v. HDPE v. whatever).  (2) Anybody have
> any knowledge or experience in approximately how much it would cost
> to have the necessary *glass* mold made?  (3) Assuming a vessel made
> from food grade plastic, would the advantages of a "mini-unitank"
> process be enough for homebrew veterans to switch from glass? 
> (4) How much would would people generally be willing to fork over
> for plastic / glass small cylindroconical fermenters?

If you are down to the 7-8 gallon size, you might as well use
one or two BrewCaps, or whatever the upside down Kinney contrap
is.  If you get a price on a 1.5 BBl SS uni, let me know.  I 
am not sure of the value that a uni will provide over a straight
cylander unless you are intent on making lagers.  The price diffs
are just too high for the return.

Good brewing,
Jim Busch



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Date: Tue, 02 Aug 1994 08:18:43 -0700
From: David Lyle Robinson <robinson at ichips.intel.com>
Subject: The (new??) coolers: Refreshing MALT beverage

I hope this hasn't been discussed before.  I'm not a die hard
homebrewer yet, so I usually just scan the digest.  Anyways...

The other day, I bought a four pack of Bartles & James
wine coolers.  At least I thought they were wine coolers.  Its
probably been 3-4 years since I've done this.  At home, I
noticed that wine is no longer an ingredient.  Now, the fine
print says "Refreshing MALT beverage."  Hmmm.  Strange.  Does
anyone know about this?  It tastes the same as I remember, and
doesn't have the slightest hint of beer.  Do they brew an un-hopped
beer, and then add flavoring??
 
Just sitting here wondering...

Thanks,
David Robinson

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Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 08:25:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Frane <gummitch at teleport.com>
Subject: Wyeast 1968

Andy Walsh (who downloaded one of our catalogs) notes that Wyeast 1968
should be occasionally roused.  This is true, and shouldn't be an
oxidation problem at all, particularly for those using carboys.  There
is, after all, a big blanket of CO2 there and some vigorous agitation of
the carboy for a couple of minutes should help get things going.  I've
been raving about this strain for months now, and consider it one of the
best ale yeasts available.  It seems to go through an interesting
process after a couple of weeks in the bottle, where a signature level
of diacetyl appears.  This is not, I hasten to say, a nasty diacetyl,
but rather a warm, buttery note.  If you've ever had a good serving of
Fuller's ESB, you'll know what I mean.

- --Jeff


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Date: Tue, 02 Aug 1994 12:27:04 -0300
From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH at ac.dal.ca>
Subject: Bittering hops

Douglas R. Jones seems to be taking flak for using Saaz at the brew store's 
reccommendation.  Sazz are not generally used for pale ales.  However, for 
any of you out there flaming poor Doug, have you tried it?  Hmm?  I would 
bet that his pale ale is excellent.  What some people fail to recognize is 
that isohumulone is not everything in a hop, and more is not necessarily 
better when it comes to %aa of hops.  As a bittering hop Saaz would not 
impart its usual spiciness, but would impart its wonderful vegetal flavour. 
You see, hops are not simply volatile aroma and flavour components and 
alpha acid.  They also contain a whole lot of subtle plant characteristics, 
many of which remain after a long boil.  If you want that english bitter 
flavour, you have to use tonnes of low-alpha hops, rather than a pinch of 
high alpha hops, in order to get that earthy, vegetal background note.  Try 
it out.  And think about the hops as a whole, not simply as a number on the 
bottom of the pack.  Remember, high alpha hops were devised by big 
breweries who a) want to spend as little as possible on their product and 
b) want as little flavour contribution from the hops as they can manage.

*-Ed Hitchcock---ech at ac.dal.ca---*  Mares drink Grolsch and does drink 
*-Anat.&Neurobio.---Dalhousie-U.-*  Koelsch and little lambs drink Lambic.
*-Halifax--NS--Can---------------*  Ed'll drink Lambic too, wouldn't you?

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Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 9:25:25 MDT
From: npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM
Subject: Saaz

Sounds like Doug Jones really caught hell from you HBDers over his choice of
using Saaz for bittering.  If it had been any other hop in the world, Doug,
you probably wouldn't have gotten so much flack for it.  Its just that Saaz
is highly regarded as a finishing hop for the finest lagers.  Many people
though, including myself, using "finishing" hops for bittering, since they
seem to give a less harsh bitterness compared to high alpha hops, even when
the same IBUs are in the finished beer.  BTW, 4.6% AA is high for Saaz, but
certainly not considered a high alpha hop.  There are some varieties as high
as 15%; I think anything over 9-10% could be considered a high alpha hop.

Cheers,
Norm npyle at hp7013.ecae.stortek.com

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Date:          Tue, 2 Aug 1994 11:13:11 CST6CDT
From: "Dan Houg" <HOUGD at mdh-bemidji.health.state.mn.us>
Subject:       counter-pressure bottle fillers

hello group.  Can someone direct me to a source for info on CPBF's?  
Forgive my ignorance, but just what exactly do these devices do for 
one.  I would like to be able to bottle kegged, forced carbonated 
beer.  Is this the device that would enable me to do so?  All replies 
appreciated and can post a summary if desired.  thanx

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Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 11:32:00 CST
From: Montgomery_John at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil
Subject: making agar plates


Hello all,
    I plan on making some agar plates ala the Zymurgy summer issue with 
    one exception. Instead of using a pressure cooker for sterilizing I 
    was going to just boil the agar/malt solution stovetop. Will this be 
    sufficient or do I HAVE to use the pressure cooker? TIA.

John Montgomery
montgomery_john at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil

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Date: Tue, 02 Aug 1994 12:06:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: GARY SINK 206-553-4687 <SINK.GARY at epamail.epa.gov>
Subject: New Papazian

          I just received a postcard from AHA regarding Papazian's new 
          book, Home brewer's Companion (not to be confused with Randy 
          Mosher's Brewer's Companion).  They announce the retail price at 
          $11.00, but are offering AHA members a "special" price of $9.95 
          plus $4.00 shipping & handling.  Hmmm.  Last I checked, $13.95 
          was greater than $11.00, so where's the "special"???  I'd rather 
          wait for my local HB shop to stock it and buy it there.
          
          If the purpose of AHA is to support the HB shops, fine, but don't 
          pretend to offer "specials" to members that are offensive.  If 
          AHA really wants to give me (an AHA member) a deal, sell me the 
          book for $11 or less and waive the shipping and handling charge.
          
          Charlie, Karen, are you out there?
          
          Gary Sink
          
          PS:  I will be calling AHA and venting directly to them, but I 
          thought I'd share the info with "the gang".



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Date: Tue, 02 Aug 1994 12:46:00 +0600
From: sporter at riscy.scott-scott.com (Steven D. Porter)
Subject: CHARLIE PAPAZIAN VISITS BOSTON

Zymurgy mentor Charlie Papazian will be in the Boston, MA area, on
Wednesday, August 3, 1994.

He will be at the Border Book Store, Route 9, Framingham, MA at 7:30pm for
book signings.

>From there, he will be at the Commonwealth Brewery, 138 Portland St.,
Boston, MA, at 9:00pm for drinks & merriment.  He will also be available for
book signings there, as well.

If you have any questions, you may call Dave Ruggiero at the Barleymalt &
Vine shop, (617) 630-1015, or Compuserve 74453,3557.


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Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 10:52:04 CDT
From: caa at com2app.c2s.mn.org (Charles Anderson)
Subject: Jim Koch Bashing

> RON.admin at admin.creol.ucf.edu provides us with the following Jim Koch info:
> 
> > - [Samuel Adams] Double Bock has half pound of malt per bottle.
> 
> Kelly Jones points out that this would result in an OG around 1.150, well
> beyond the (1.072-1.080) range.
> 
> Clearly, Boston (TM) Beer (TM) Co.(TM) spills more malt than homebrewers
> use in a year!  ;^)
> 
> Bob Guerin  (bguerin at orincon.com)

Many people seem to really enjoy bashing Jim Koch and Sam Adams even though
they do make good beer, I talked with a guy this past weekend that had met
Jim, and said that he was a nice personable guy.  Ron never says what size
bottles had .5lb of malt in them, if they were 12oz bottles Kelly is right
but if they were 22oz bottles this would only be 1.087 assuming 30pts/lb/gal.
(and I'm pretty sure that I've seen SA in 22oz bottles)

 -Charlie (glad that someone has put a decent enough beer out there that enough
		  bars carry that I usually don't have to settle for budmillcoors)
- --
  /-Charles-Anderson-\  | caa at showpg.mn.org                          TIP#068
  \------------------/  | Showpage Software Inc.,       voice (612) 595-9690
Vidi Vici Veni - I Saw, | 435 Ford Road, Suite 315       fax  (612) 595-8090
  I Conquered, I Came   | St. Louis Park, MN  55426     (I speak for myself)


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Date: Tue, 02 Aug 94 13:22:28 EDT
From: uszvnrl6 at ibmmail.com
Subject: Bittering with                                                   

- ----------------------- Mail item text follows ---------------


There was a recent thread on the use of materials other than Hops
as bittering agents in beer. Does anyone know if Beach-Nut's
can be used either as a bittering agent, or in some other way to
enhance the flavor of a good brew?

Thanks in advance.

Don Zickefoose      uszvnrl6 at ibmmail.com

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Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 10:25:15 -0700
From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros)
Subject: Bitterness calculations


Regarding the discussion of hopping formulas, I think they should be used
as a reference.  The formulas, whether it is Rager's or Garetz', are an
attempt to estimate the number of IBUs in a beer.

Since homebrewers have no practical way to measure the actual IBUs
in their beers, we have no way of knowing which formula is the best.
Glenn's research sounds like a good attempt to improve the
situation.

I think most of us use the IBU estimates as a relative scale.  After a few
batches, we know about how bitter a beer with 40 IBUs (estimated) will
be.  Most of us have some kind of calibration in our heads for our tastes
and our equipment of what "40 IBUs" mean.  If you don't have enough
experience yet with IBUs in your beers, Eckhardt's book gives the IBUs
in quite a few commercial beers.

So use Rager's formula or use Mark Garetz', but be consistent and
you should get consistent bitterness.  I noticed a big improvement in
consistency when I switched from using Papazian's HBUs to IBUs.

                                           - Bryan
                                             bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu

                                                      - Bryan
                                                        
bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu


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Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 12:54:23 CDT
From: "MICHAEL L. TEED" <MS08653 at MSBG.med.ge.com>
Subject: Hunter T'stat mod

 .int homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com

 Can someone e-mail me the modification for offsetting the temperature on the
 Hunter t'stat? I appear to have lost the HBD where it was last published. I
 have just run across a few on closeout at a local hardware store. TIA.

 Mike Teed


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Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 12:13:29 -0600 (MDT)
From: timothy m robic <tmrobic at unm.edu>
Subject: Beerland?

I have a beerland homebrew kit and I'm trying to order ingredients from 
Beerland and have gotten a busy signal for about a week straight.  If 
anyone knows if they are still in business, or what the deal is, let me 
know.  Thanks

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1491, 08/03/94