HOMEBREW Digest #1499 Fri 12 August 1994

Digest #1498 Digest #1500

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Ulick's post (npyle)
  Caution with lactose beers/citrobacter (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Counter Presure Filler For Sale (Timothy Sixberry)
  Lager Malts vs. Ale Malts (PAULDORE)
  using calcium chloride... (Robert F. Dougherty)
  RE: Woodchuck and Pale Ale (mdemers)
  breakin' the law (BRCMRC.BRMAIN.MMENDENH)
  Oxygen during fermentation (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Millertov cocktails (Mark Roberson)
  Re: Christmas brews/ preboiling/ plastic petri dishes (Kelvin Kapteyn)
  Oh geeeez! (sam adams) (Jimmy Patrick)
  Gravity (JohnNewYrk)
  Re: Japanese beetle repellent - homebrewed (W. Mark Witherspoon)
  keg sanitation summary (Adrien Glauser)
  Taylor Mod Errandum ("MICHAEL L. TEED")
  Buggy Tap Water (Jim Grady)
  5 liter mini-keg (Robert.Fike)
  Sparging rate and George Fix (Chuck E. Mryglot)
  Codes,West Virginia (PSTOKELY)
  All grain equip. cost details (mlittle)
  Phil's Philler (George Kavanagh O/o)
  Waste Water / Dry hopping (npyle)
  forfeiture laws and homebrew (Gary Meier)
  Closed fermenters/rakes (Jim Busch)
  Re: Dry Hopping/Keg Fermenting (Randy M. Davis)
  St. Patrick's of Texas (smtplink!guym)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 9:24:16 MDT From: npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM Subject: Ulick's post Responding to Ulick's post about CF chillers, etc.: >1) How much head? Ideally, I want to use no more than 2 feet, because >safety rule number one in my brewery is that a pot of boiling wort is >never ever moved. I guess I don't fully understand this question. Are you asking how high your kettle has to be for the chiller to operate properly? If so, I'm guessing your kettle is 2 feet from the floor and your fermenter sits on the floor. This is roughly my configuration (I use the standard pipe-in-a-hose CF chiller) and it works fine. >2) How long? Diameter? My chiller is 30 feet long and has more than enough capacity to handle 5 gallon batches. >3) Hopback or not? Yes yes yes. There's a pretty easy design in the current Zymurgy which I'll probably build soon. Its based on PVC pipe and end caps. The advantages of it over the Kinney Baughman canning jar model is that you have no glass to temperature shock and you can make it virtually as big as you like. The hopback method beats standard finishing hops by a county mile. >4) How long does it take? My 30 feet of 3/8" flexible copper tubing takes close to 30 minutes to pass 5 gallons of wort. I don't slow it down for chilling, BTW, this is wide open. >5) How close does the outlet wort temperature get to the coolin inlet >temperature? Haven't measured the two to compare, but I imagine I could get it virtually the same with enough water. I set my water to a very slow flow in the summer and a trickle in the winter to cool the wort. I'm confident I could get the wort to very near the water temperature if I wanted to waste more cooling water. >6) Can it perform aduquately with summer cold water temperatures? Perfectly adequate in all seasons, but I live in Colorado, land of cold water. This brings me to my conclusion. The chiller could easily be 20' instead of 30' and I'd still be able to cool very well indeed. Should shorten the time considerably as well. I just haven't gotten around to doing this. >(I wonder are editors of Zymurgy drunk the whole time or what? The number >of errors that they print in a rather thin magazine that comes out a mere 5 >times a year amazes me. And it is so nice that they spend all that money on >postcards to tell me that I can buy CP latest book from them for $3 more than >the cover price because they like me. I am sure any bookshop around here >could get it for me in a couple of days and charge cover price?) I don't think they're drunk, but certainly impaired. A friend of mine drove to Boulder to the AHA (25 minute drive from here) and got the book at the discount (i.e. didn't pay 40% shipping charge). I figure if I decide I want it, I'll wait for the local HB shop to open (they've been "about to open" since June) and get it here in town. I'm not driving 50 minutes round trip to save a buck. The AHA has two basic functions: produce the magazine and produce various conferences, festivals, etc. They seem to be pretty good at organizing festivals (at least I haven't heard too many gripes), but they need to fire the editor of Zymurgy and get someone who can do the job. They're loaded with laid-back Boulder-ites who don't seem to be serious enough about their work to do a quality job. I'm all for not getting stressed out on life, but I believe they ought to strive for excellence on the job. Anyway, I keep hoping that BT will kick them in the butt enough to realize they ought to start producing a better product. Sadly though, as long as circulation keeps growing, they're not likely to change a thing. Norm Return to table of contents
Date: 10 Aug 94 18:29:00 GMT From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: Caution with lactose beers/citrobacter JEFF writes (quoting me): >>You must be careful about sanitation, however, since lactose is >>fermentable by lactic acid bacteria. >Lactobaccilus is a gram positive rod-shaped bacteria of the >Lactobacillaceae family. Its name is derived from its >endpoint of fermentation, that is LACTIC ACID. Of course >it can use lactose as a fermentation source, but it can also >use other sugars and amino acids present in beer. A brewer >should exercise the same care when using lactose to sweeten >a beer as he (or she) would with any other fermentable. As >always, careful sanitary techniques should be used to avoid >the introduction of bacteria, yeasts, or other parasites >that would spoil your beer. Brian writes: >The microbiology text* I've got says Lactobacillus contains lactase >which splits the lactose molecule into its constituent molecules, >glucose and galactose. These are fermentable by beer yeasts, where >lactose is not, hence the additional CO2 Al's talking about. Indeed... I was not clear in my original post and had never meant to imply CO2 production by lactic acid bacteria. My original point, which probably was forgotten by now, was that when using lactose in your beer you should be extra careful with sanitation. The reason for my concern (which apparently was missed by JEFF) is that in a regular (non-lactose) beer there is quite a bit less potentially fermentable sugar than in, say, a sweet stout made with lactose. My apologies about the citrobacter, indeed I was wrong... the source of the information, I believe was a homebrewing text or magazine article. All my microbiological knowledge is not from microbio textbooks, but rather from homebrewing and judging experience and from homebrewing sources. Perhaps it's time I corrected that shortcoming. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 13:27:00 PDT From: Timothy Sixberry <tsixber at msrapid.kla.com> Subject: Counter Presure Filler For Sale Yes I bought a CPF from Braunk( what ever), and I can't stand the thing. I had every problem previously mentioned and more. Then some kind soul here on the digest suggested just sticking a plastic tube up my beer tap, and just filling right from the tap. Problems solved. Now I just sanitize and chill my bottles. Stick the tube in the tap, and fill the bottle from the bottom up. Put the cap on the foam that takes up the last inch or so of the head space, and crimp that sucker. You should make sure the beer is cold and the bottles in the freezer right before filling. After the bottles are sealed and the foam settles your left with just c02 in there. It is just so easy you wouldn't believe it. So- COUNTER PRESURE BOTTLE FILLER FOR SALE !! Used once and never again. $20 If your still interested drop me a line. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 16:26:09 -0400 (EDT) From: PAULDORE at delphi.com Subject: Lager Malts vs. Ale Malts Is there any reason why I should use only "ALE MALTS" instead of "LAGER MALTS" when making an ale? I have spoken to people who have said that is doesn't matter. I do not have the facilities to make a REAL Lager. PaulDore at delphi.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 13:48:51 -0700 From: wolfgang at cats.ucsc.edu (Robert F. Dougherty) Subject: using calcium chloride... A couple days ago I asked about figuring out how many PPM (parts/million) of the ions a given amount of calcium chloride contributes to water. I received many informative responses (thanks again to all who e-mailed me!). Well, to summarize: "calcium chloride" comes in two varieties- anhydrous and 20% hydrated. I called the place where I got it (The Brew Club) and their supplier (Brew Master) and they sell the anhydrous version. However, Karl Scheppers said that the 20% hydrated is the "typical off shelf version", so be sure to find out which version you've got! Here are the numbers: 1 gram CaCl2 (anhydrous) contributes 95 PPM of Ca++ and 169 PPM of Cl- to 1 gallon of water. 1 gram of CaCl2.2H2O (20% hydrated) contributes 72 PPM of Ca++ and 127 PPM of Cl- to 1 gallon of water. I have compiled more info on this topic, so e-mail me if you have any questions. (Is there a water FAQ? I found none in the sierra archives. By asking this question, am I implicitly volunteering to start one? ;-) How does one go about doing a FAQ? Is there a peer review before it goes public?...) thanks, bob dougherty wolfgang at cats.ucsc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 17:17:28 EST From: mdemers at ccmailpc.ctron.com Subject: RE: Woodchuck and Pale Ale In HBD 1497, Mark Wilk poses the following question: "Has anyone tried mixing a Woodchuck cider and a Pale Ale?" And the answer is .......... YES!!! He goes on to mention that he used Saranac for the Pale Ale. Well, I've never tried that but I can say that Bass Ale mixed with Woodchuck is absolutely delicious and is one of my personal favorites. While we're on the subject of Woodchuck (and you had to see this one coming), does anybody out there have a recipe for a good clone of this wonderful cider? I made a batch of cider recently and did not achieve the sweet taste that I was looking for. I have already made an excellent Bass clone, but my cider mixed with it is simply not as magical as the above mentioned concoction. So, any other Woodchuck fans out there? brew on, md Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 16:45:55 -0700 From: BRCMRC.BRMAIN.MMENDENH at EMAIL.STATE.UT.US Subject: breakin' the law Following a recent thread regarding the legality of brewing in certain states: I recently spoke with the Utah Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control regarding homebrewing. I received this answer: Homebrewing for personal consumption without a manufacturing permit is illegal in Utah. However, if one is willing to jump through a few hoops the State will consider sanctioning this hobby. The hoops: file written application with the Department along with a $100 non-refundable application fee; include statement of purpose for manufacturing beer (just why do brewers brew brew?); provide written consent of local authority; purchase a $10,000 cash bond made payable to the Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control; provide evidence of public liability insurance; provide evidence that applicant is authorized by the United States to manufacture alcoholic beverages, provide signed consent form allowing unrestricted brewery access to any employee of the DABC or any law enforcement officer; lastly, any person making a false statement in any application, document, or affidavit is guilty of a 2nd degree felony. Oh yeah, a license may be denied to anyone convicted of a crime involving moral turpitude. The Department employee added that the local homebrew supply shops aren't breaking the law by selling ingredients used in illegal brewing as long as they aren't brewing themselves. He thought it quite perverse that the shops are allowed to aid and abet in the commission of crimes with such impunity. I asked him if anyone had been prosecuted for brewing in Utah and he didn't think so. I'm afraid a legislative effort to change the law would only draw attention to homebrewing and I think the powers-that-be would rather ignore its existence. That said, homebrewing is thriving in Utah and I feel no need to draw the shades when I'm brewing at home. Return to table of contents
Date: 10 Aug 94 23:11:00 GMT From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: Oxygen during fermentation Jim (as well as a few others) wrote: >Im not sure about mechanical stirring, but I do not believe that any rousing >of the primary fermenter is going to oxidize your beer. Theres just too >much CO2 both being evolved and in solution of the beer. The key is to >minimize any splashing of the beer surface, which could stir in O2. If you >were introducing O2, it would likely show up in the beer. It's true that if we were to swirl our carboys with the airlock or blowoff tube still on, then there would be no O2 in the carboy to dissolve into the fermenting beer. However, even if you do introduce O2 during fermentation it will not add "wet cardboard" or sherrylike flavors. I believe that sherrylike flavors are strickly a result of Hot Side Aeration (i.e. aeration of hot wort) whereas "wet cardboard" or papery aromas, I believe are from aeration of post-ferment beer. During fermentation, the addition of oxygen increases diacetyl production. At Samuel Smiths brewery in Tadcaster, they use a yeast that is so highly flocculent that they must pump beer from the bottom of the fermenter and spray it onto the top (Yorkshire Stone Squares, BTW). I've seen this in person and I can assure you there was plenty of oxygen available, both for me to breathe and for the spraying beer. The spray was fan-shaped, perhaps a 45 degree angle and perhaps three feet in width when it disappeared into the frothing head. The increased diacetyl production is certainly verified by tasting the beer -- SS Old Brewery Pale Ale has a strong diacetyl component. I don't know how often they do this spraying (it appears to be timer- controlled), or if it is only used for part of the fermentation (e.g. the first half or 2/3, maybe) but will try to find out. The person who led me through the brewery was not a brewer and we left Tadcaster before I got a chance to talk to the brewmaster in person. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 19:51:13 -0600 From: roberson at hydroxide.chem.utah.edu (Mark Roberson) Subject: Millertov cocktails Fellow brewers, On the subject of priming, someone recently asked why you can't just skip the whole process and bottle your beer before it finishes fermenting. My experience suggests that this would be a BAD idea. After my weizen stopped bubbling I siphoned it to the secondary and was left with a couple of pints extra. With the above idea on my mind I bottled and capped the leftovers and brought them in to work; while I was out of the office < thank God > they exploded, driving green shrapnel into the drywall on all four sides. When I was an undergrad I saw a film about what happens when the neck breaks off from a gas cylinder: it punches a big hole in the wall. Now I have the same respect for the little gas cylinders I make in my kitchen. Mark (o o) =======================---ooO-(_)-Ooo---===================================== Body by Budweiser Mind by Mattel ============================================================================== Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 21:52:22 -0400 From: Kelvin Kapteyn <kelvink at mtu.edu> Subject: Re: Christmas brews/ preboiling/ plastic petri dishes Ed asked about Christmas beers: I know just enough about Christmas brews to know that different countries have different interpretations of what a Christmas brew is. For example, the British interpretation is often a barleywine or strong ale. I think it might have been a spiced ale in the past (the origin of the word "wassail" in the song.) The Germans might brew a weizenbock. When I was in Belgium in May, they had some of the Gordon's Xmas Scotch ale (a slightly stronger version of the regular Gordon's Scotch ale.) Other Christmas beers in Belgium also seem to be stronger versions of the regular beers (Scaldis Noel, for example), or a different but also stronger beer (the Stille Nacht from De Dolle brewery, for example). It seems to me that you have to consider what it is you are looking for, then look for a recipe to brew it from. Of course, you could always brew them all, and have a very merry Christmas! :-) One starting point though is the spiced ale in TNCJOHB (Papazian). Brew it early so it has time to age (If that's why you are asking about Christmas brews *now*, good job! You're doing a lot better than *I* did last year! The darn brew wouldn't even finish *fermenting* in two weeks, let alone get bottled and conditioned! :-) ) My $0.02 on the preboiling discussion is that I preboil before mashing nowadays just to get rid of the dissolved O2 and other dissolved gasses as well as the chlorine. Perhaps I could be recommended for the Anal Brewers of America, but I think this will help reduce the HSA potential just a bit. I have also noticed that since I have been preboiling, and being careful not to splash/aerate during the mash process, the foaming at the beginning of my boils is almost nil. I started testing this out after a friend mentioned that the initial foaming was probably due to the dissolved gasses in the wort coming out of solution just as the boil was reached. Made sense to me, and it tested out in practice. BTW, if I want to get rid of the significant bicarbonates in my water (sometimes I do, sometimes I don't, it depends), I go through the full preboil - cool - rack off routine, then I only heat to strike water temp, not all the way back to boil. Being the cheapskate that I am (sometimes, but not when looking for the best ingredients, or GOOD commercial examples of beer!) I have tried to save and re-use those plastic petri dishes. In the past, I sanitised (or attempted to) with a strong meta-bisulfite solution. That was before I knew the stuff I posted about meta-bisulfite not working so well. The bottom line is, none of the plates grew anything over several days of waiting to check for contamination. If I save these things again, I will sanitize with iodine solution. BTW, COYOTE told me once that they make nice wall decorations if you autoclave them! :-) -Kelvin (kelvink at mtu.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 19:31:20 +0800 From: jimmyp at netcom.com (Jimmy Patrick) Subject: Oh geeeez! (sam adams) BEER ADS TO SMELL LIKE HOPS: August and September issues of Newsweek, Rolling Stone and Sports Illustrated will include beer ads with a scent. A pioneering Scratch and Sniff advertising campaign from Boston Beer Co., maker of Samuel Adams Boston Lager, will be launched. Full-page ads will give readers the scents of Noble Hops and German Hallertau Hops, which give the beer its flavor. USA Today Descisionline 8-10-94 - -- jimmyp at netcom.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 02:58:37 EDT From: JohnNewYrk at aol.com Subject: Gravity I brewed an all-grain pilsner yesterday, but I forgot to take an OG reading. I did however take a reading just before starting the boil. The wort's gravity was 1.042 & I had 7 gallons of wort. After the boil I had approx 6 gallons left, can I assume that the SG at that point was 42*(7/6) = 49?? The recipe I was following calls for a SG of 1.048, so I hope my math is valid. Anyone know for sure?? John Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 07:57:13 +0500 From: mwithers at hannibal.atl.ge.com (W. Mark Witherspoon) Subject: Re: Japanese beetle repellent - homebrewed When you boil chewing tobacco, you extract tannins and NICOTINE. Nicotine is a DEADLY poison. 2-3 mg directly injected in a person will kill them ( if the person is a non-smoker). Mixing it with soap and spraying it on the insects.... RIP to them. It does disapate/degrade within a few days of applications, but ususally one to two applications will wipe out 95% of the insect population in an area. But if you are coning.. I would just use the soap. My vines are really chewed up by them. But I have not started coning yet. I have tettanger, cascade and williamette. The williamette is having problems... the kid who mowed my yard last took the weed-eater to it 8^(. So I have coxed it back to a total of 6" now. My tett and cascade is well over 35' now (first year growth). I just waiting to see the cones start up... Mark Witherspoon mwithers at atl.ge.com Return to table of contents
Date: 11 Aug 1994 04:59:41 GMT From: Adrien_Glauser at tvo.org (Adrien Glauser) Subject: keg sanitation summary I don't know if keg sanitation is on a FAQ file (For some reason I can't get them) so I'll summarize what I've been sent and what I have found out. First: Do NOT/NEVER use chlorine (an acid) or any abrasive substance to clean your kegs. The reason being is that chlorine will eat the keg, leaving small pits, and any abrasive substance will also scrape and pit the inside of the keg. These pits and scrapes are perfect places for bacteria and other stuff to hide in. Think of it being compariable to plastic fermentors. Once they are scratched, you might as well through them out. With steel wool, small fragments break off and get stuck in the stainless and this will make your beer taste bad. Again, not a good thing. Secondly: What you can use. 1) B.E.S.T. (Brewing Equipment Sanitizing Treatment). It is a low foaming iodophor 2) Chlorinated Tri-Sodium Phosphate (CTSP) 3) 3/4 a gallon of boiling water into the keg, sealing, shaking wildly, and then expelling some of the still hot water out of the 'out' tube. This allows one to sterilize using heat 4) B-Brite, which breaks down to O2 and water, or some other commercial sanitizing agent 5) Idophor - 2 tablespoons in 5 gallons of water I have only just tried #3, so I have no experience with the other chemical compounds. I guess the only thing I can say is read the lable carefully before buying/using it. Some people did mention that you can use chlorine/bleach. The trick is to use a concentration that is weak enough and use a short expose time to reduce the time that the chlorine has to eat your keg. <- "Not with my expensive kegs you don't!" This is just a summary of what people have sent me and of what I have read. Treat your kegs with care and they'll give you a lifetime of loyal service. If enough people who have used these specific sanitation methods (1to5) e-mail me with their experiences, I'll post a revised summary. The normal disclaimers & blah go here. Brummbaer, the midnight brewer. Adrien_Glauser at TVO.ORG Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 07:17:31 CDT From: "MICHAEL L. TEED" <MS08653 at MSBG.med.ge.com> Subject: Taylor Mod Errandum .int homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com OOPS! I left out one important measurement value in my 'research'. The resistor values are in KOHMS not ohms. Sorry for any inconvenience. Mike Teed Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 8:20:43 EDT From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com> Subject: Buggy Tap Water There has been some talk lately about buggy tap water, especially in these summer months, and whether you should use it to rinse stuff before putting your nice wort in it. In their book "Vienna," George and Laurie Fix recommend using cheap supermarket beer for rinsing out sanitizing solution & that a 12 oz bottle is sufficient to rinse out a 5 gal vessel (carboy or keg). Well, since I am cheap I adapted this method and would occasionally make a batch of bottled, boiled water and use that. It was handy to have on hand but I finally decided that it was more trouble than it is worth and rely on pitching LOTS of yeast. So far, any nasties that may be in my water have been kept at bay this way. To make the bottled, boiled water: 1. Fill as many 12 beer bottles with water as you can fit in your kettle - I used a 5 gal stockpot - and put them in the pot. 2. Fill the pot with water until it was just below the lips of the bottles. 3. Toss in a bottle cap per bottle plus a few extras (I always drop at least one). 4. Cover and bring to a boil. Boil covered for 20 min. 5. Use tongs/hotpads to retrieve each bottle and cap it. I basically used the method for making canned, sterile wort in Dave Miller's "The Complete Handbook of Home Brewing." - -- Jim Grady grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 08:34:13 EST From: Robert.Fike at ccmail.GSFC.NASA.GOV Subject: 5 liter mini-keg I saw a request for info in a previous HBD about these 5 liter mini-kegs. I believe one of the answers that came back described a plastic version that got less than favorable recommendations (please don't flame me if I'm wrong, I'm a relative newbie to brewing). I received some literature from a homebrew shop in Pottstown Pa. describing a 5 liter mini-keg made out of sheet metal (? or !). Can anyone out there impart some knowledge upon this unworthy one? For 49.95 +shipping you get four 5 liter mini kegs, tap and 10 pack CO2 chargers. Thanks for bandwidth. Yours in zymurgy, Rob Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 08:38:59 EDT From: cem at cadre.com (Chuck E. Mryglot) Subject: Sparging rate and George Fix Last night I was reading the article by George Fix in the latest issue of Zymurgy. It is an article on grain crushing and had some interesting statements about extraction and sparging. I'll try to paraphrase... George wrote that he gets much better malt flavor with a quicker rather than slower runoff. For his 13.3 gallon system this was 20 - 30 minutes... and evidently he does not suffer from poor extraction. (This would linearly extrapolate to about 7 - 11 minutes for 5 gallons, my calculations). He recognized that many homebrewers sparge at 2 or 3 times this rate and attributed it to equipment and/or poor crush. Also, I got the impression that he measures extraction directly from the mash before runoff. Can anyone jump in here... If George is reading this, possibly he can elaborate... eg, his sparge times, equipment, extraction measurement techniques, his extraction rates... regards, ChuckM Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 08:57:22 EDT From: PSTOKELY at ea.umd.edu Subject: Codes,West Virginia I'd like to thank all those who e-mailed me privately about my buddy's equipment being confiscated in West Virginia. His is the only story I've ever heard where someone was penalized for homebrewing, and apparently it was legal all along. Where does one look to find the actual pertinent state laws? COMAR (Maryland State Code), for instance, is a large, unreadable book that does not have an index."Popping down to the library to look it up" would take several afternoon's worth of reading/searching. If I'm ever confronted by the authorities I'd like to quote, chapter and verse, what my rights are regarding homebrewing. Is there an easier way? BTW, West Virginia is an incredibly beautiful state and most of the folks I've met in Shepherdstown, Morgantown and Elkins are people I'd like to have as neighbors. I guess they also have their share of bored, mistrustful cops, so let's not bash the place. Paul S. in College Park, Maryland "You speak in strange whispers, friend, are you not of The Body?" Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 09:09:00 EDT From: mlittle at cclink.draper.com Subject: All grain equip. cost details <<<<<< Attached TEXT item follows >>>>>> Text item: Text_1 Hi Folks, I posted a few days ago my costs for an all grain brewing setup. I've gotten quite a few (18) requests for detailed parts/price list. I'm posting the list now for anyone interested. Mash/Lauter Tun 10 Gallon Gott cooler $57.74 Tags Hardware Phils Phalse Bottom $16.28 Beer & Wine Hobby Spigot, tubing $4.00 Beer & Wine Hobby Total $78.02 Wort Chiller Garden Hose, 50 ft. * $8.37 Home Depot 3/8" Cu tubing, 50 ft. * $24.99 Home Depot 3/4" Y fitting (2) $7.20 Metropolitan Pipe 1/2 - 3/8" Compression (2) $5.38 Home Depot 3/4" - 1/2" Adaptor (2) $3.61 Home Depot Hose Clamps (2) $1.37 Masse Hardware Hose Coupling (2) $4.83 Home Depot Bucket $4.19 Home Depot Valve $4.00 Masse Hardware Compression fittings (2) $5.00 Masse Hardware Sub-total $59.94 Credit $16.65 sale of half the lengths (*) Total $43.29 Brew Pot 1/2 bbl. Sankey Keg $56.80 Bev-Con Int. Bulkhead fittings, washers, ball valve, compression fitting, hose $15.00 Tags Cu tubing Scrap Cu Scrubber $2.00 Star Market Total $73.80 Stove Brinkman Stove $62.35 Home Depot Propane Tank $14.98 Home Depot Total $81.20 Grand Total $276.31 These items were purchased in the Boston area, YMMV. Brew On, Mark Return to table of contents
Date: 11 Aug 1994 09:20:13 -0500 From: George Kavanagh O/o <George.Kavanagh at omail.wang.com> Subject: Phil's Philler Todd Boyce asked about Phil's Philler: I have used same for about 5 batches and find it a good replacement for the inexpensive "valve-on-the-end-of a-cane" filler. It does take some getting used to, as it is not spring loaded as the cane end valve is (don't hold it upside down; the beer will flow!) However, it does fill with less agitation, and the fill level remains the same when you remove the filler. I recommend it as a useful addition to your brew gadget collection. -gk ( George.Kavanagh at omail.wang.com ) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 8:29:32 MDT From: npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM Subject: Waste Water / Dry hopping All this talk about hot water (from your chiller) killing the grass, bushes, etc., has me very skeptical. I've seen people trying to use hot water to kill weeds but I've never seen much success, even when they do it repeatedly. The ground is a hugh thermal mass, wouldn't you agree? A few gallons of hot water aren't likely to damage anything, especially if you run it through any type of sprinkler device. I'm not going out to pour 30 gallons of boiling water on my hops, mind you, but I wouldn't worry about a few gallons of say, 150F water. ** Scott asks about whether to bother doing several hop additions if he is going to dry hop. By all means, Scott, the dry hops add a strong character, but they aren't a substitute for flavor/finishing hops. I think you'd get a much better complexity by doing all the additions instead of just dry hopping. Besides, dry hops contribute virtually no bitterness, whereas middle hop additions certainly do. If you were to skip the middle additions, you'd have to make sure you compensated for the loss of bitterness by adding more early hops. Cheers, Norm npyle at hp7013.ecae.stortek.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 11:01:47 -0600 From: gmeier at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Gary Meier) Subject: forfeiture laws and homebrew On the 8/10 HBD, Glenace L. Melton posted that: "The federal forfeiture laws allow the police to confiscate anything they wish if they think it is involved in a violation, and they do not have to prove the violation in court or even file a complaint." I'd like to clarify one point, that being while the police can initially CONFISCATE most anything they want if they think it is involved in some kind of legal infraction, in order for them to KEEP it, they still have to convince a court the forfeiture was valid. The WV cop who confiscated the homebrew was out of line, and IMO the brew would have been returned if any sort of challenge had been raised by its lawful owner. Still, it sucks when the forfeiture laws are overzealously applied and innocent citizens have to waste time and money fighting it. Gary Meier Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 11:14:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com> Subject: Closed fermenters/rakes Teddy writes: > I'm often impressed by the freshness of the flavors in beer from > brewpubs. I'm not sure exactly how I'd describe it except to say that > there's good, resiny/floral hop aroma and flavor, and nice, smooth > maltiness. Are these qualities due to the equipment that they use in > mashing and boiling, or are they due to the closed-system fermenters > that they use? Most certainly from the ingredients and techniques, not the closed fermenters. Sierra Nevada Ales are made in a large SS open fermenter. Algis writes: > Subject: Rakes/Oak Casks > > Rakes: >I visited about 6 or 8 breweries (I'm still jet-lagged out... hard to think.. >tried to drive on the wrong side of the road this morning) and asked the >brewmasters at every one whether they use the rakes during the sparge. The >resounding answer was NO, and that the rakes are used only for spent grain >removal. In some, the rakes fold up, completely out of the mash until needed >for grain removal. Well, now we have 6/8 data points from British breweries. Now we need to get samples from German, Belgian, Swiss and Checz breweries to see what they do! I have also been asking brewers this question and often the answer is "I run em every 15 minutes for about 2 minutes then turn em off", or "I run em a bit in the start, then let em set until halfway through and sometimes drop the height as the lauter proceeds". I got a paper from Rich Fortnum who attends the Malting, Brewing & Distilling Science program at the Heriot-Watt University, Edinburgh, Scotland. In this paper, they did studies on controlled procedures in Weizen production. One of the interesting points was the specific detail of height of rakes and speed of revolution in the lauter tun. If I recall, the rakes were idle until about 50 mins into the lauter, then they were progressively rotated faster and deeper for the remainder of the lauter. Just goes to show different strokes for different brewers/breweries/styles/malts..... So, Algis, what was *the* best beer on the trip, and did you return with a beer engine? Good brewing, Jim Busch Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 9:10:13 MDT From: Randy M. Davis <rmdavis at mocan.mobil.com> Subject: Re: Dry Hopping/Keg Fermenting Scott asks: >I'm getting ready to dry hop an English-style pale ale with 1oz of EKG. >Normally, if I wasn't dry hopping, I would add several hop additions i.e. >30 min and 45 min into the boil. Is this a waste of time if I am dry >hopping? I'm wondering if the powerful dry hopped aroma/flavor will >overwhelm any effects from late hop additions. Any thoughts/experience? My experience has been that if you want a nice hop aroma then dry hop. Only very late additions to the boil and steeping provide any aroma at all in my brews and even then a lot of the aromatics are lost in the steam. I dry hop all of my brews (except those in a style with little or no hop aroma) and still use multiple additions to the boil. The reason is hop flavor. Where those late additions fail to add aroma they make up for it in hop flavor. Not bitterness; flavor. If I really want hop flavor I put up to an ounce of loose hops into a strainer that sits below the false bottom of my lauter tun/hop back and run the entire volume of hot wort through this on it's way to the chiller. I have been told that this type of late flavor/aroma hopping is used in some breweries in the UK. The result is pronounced hop character that is ideal for any "hophead". I suggest that you use the tried and true approach of only changing one thing at a time and add you dry hops to a brew otherwise hopped as you have in the past. Compare the result and decide what you prefer. No way is the dry hopping going to spoil the batch and you really have to decide for yourself whether it is too much or just right. >Stephen Lovett asked about a fermentation lock on corni kegs that won't >require modifying the keg. I have not tried this because I brew 5 gal. Imp. batches and the keg is too small for fermentation, but why not remove one quick connect stem and push a piece of plastic hose over the threaded stem. An airlock stem should provide a good seal when inserted far enough into the other end. If the hose is just long enough to accomadate both of the rigid parts, the airlock should be well supported and not fall over. - --- +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Randy M. Davis: Mobil Oil Canada Calgary, Alberta Canada | | rmdavis at mocan.mobil.com | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 09:07:29 MDT From: exabyte!smtplink!guym at uunet.uu.net Subject: St. Patrick's of Texas There continues to be barbs thrown at Lynne O'Connor and St. Pat's every few digests and I've seen all I can take without responding. I have been a customer of Lynne's for a number of years now and have *NEVER* been treated with anything but courtesy. She has the overall best prices I have seen for homebrewing supplies and the quality of her products is first-rate. I have quite a few of her plastic jars that she ships her extract in around the house being used for various functions. And their hop packaging is the best in the business in my opinion. I ordered three of the ball lock kegs a few weeks ago myself. After a couple of weeks, they had not arrived so I dropped Lynne email to see if she could track them. After being unable to locate them, she shipped three more which arrived in 3 days. Simple as that. They had originally been shipping the kegs taped together but not boxed and UPS had been "losing" a number of them. I suspect that there are a few homebrewers in their employ who picked some really cheap kegs! Anyway, they have begun boxing the kegs before shipping and the arrival rate has gone up significantly. Anyway, my point is that anyone who "refuses to do business" with St. Pat's is only hurting themselves by ruling out one of the best supply shops in the country. I, for one, will gladly continue to be a customer of Lynne's. -- Guy McConnell guym at exabyte.com Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1499, 08/12/94