FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Whirlpool siphon, all vienna malt brews, underletting dilution ("nancy e. renner")
  Newbie kit brewer takes Best of Show! ("nancy e. renner")
  RE: A real crack up (Garrett_Pelton)
  Copper siphon loop/whirpooling ("geo")
  Pub Crawls and the Oracle conference (Robert Hatcher)
  Canning Starters (RONALD MOUCKA)
  erlenmeyers (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Re: Whirlpools and HSA (Jim Busch)
  Dextrin Malt vs. Honey (Rmarsh747)
  Vine conditions.. (W. Mark Witherspoon)
  mailing list (pepsi)
  Octoberfest CDs (todd boyce)
  Help (Derek Atlansky)
  homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Todd Gilbert)
  Geneva Beers (Philip Gravel)
  Trub removal -- summary (Jay Lonner)
  Montreal Pubs (PAULDORE)
  Challenger hops? (Al Gaspar)
  still more on nw extracts (uswlsrap)
  Propane cookers and sanitation (Gary L. Melton)
  Duvel Recipe (Cree-ee-py Boy)
  Carboy holders (Domenick Venezia)
  long fermenting ale ("Charles S. Jackson")
  ADDITION TO MAILING LI (Pete Koets)
  Full-boil extract questions... (Bob Bessette)
  cider (SMG9871)
  Questions about spicing brews with spice teas (Kevin Schutz)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 11:38:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: "nancy e. renner" <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Whirlpool siphon, all vienna malt brews, underletting dilution

>From *Jeff* Renner

Jeff Frane's post on a copper siphon ring is perhaps the most useful thing
 (to me) I have read all year.  I am excited and am going
 to make one up this weekend.  Thanks, Jeff.  This is what makes the HBD 
great - brewers at all levels can pick up tips.

Someone (sorry, didn't note who) asked it it was possible to brew with 
all vienna or all munich, since these were evidently developed for brewing 
these styles (or actually, developed to brew with the water in those
cities, which lead to those styles).  This occured to me about two years 
ago, and I brewed up a relatively low gravity dunkels (1.042) for a 
party.  It turned out fine, if a bit low bodied.  I used Ireks munich 
malt.  Since then, I have made a vienna (using Durst vienna malt) adding 
only some 10^ crystal to help the body.  This too was relatively low 
gravity (1.044) that I brewed for drinking, not for competition.  In 
spite of that, it was well judged in the Michigan State Fair, where it 
placed.  Of course, it did need more malt to be strictly in style, but I 
like to bend my elbow more than that would allow.  I looked at the 
analysis numbers on both Durst and Ireks malts, and they looked to me to 
be of equal quality to pils malts.  I think they now use the same quality 
barley for all their malts, as do other European maltsters.

About underletting.  I have used an insulated, caulked Zapap (holey bottomed 
bucket in a bucket) lauter tub since the early 80's.  I think I will reduce 
the dead 
space under the false bottom next time I take it apart and recaulk it, by 
cutting off the lower ring(s) on the inner bucket, but I don't believe 
that the gallon or so of underlet water really dilutes the sparge.  Here's 
why:  I recycle 2 - 3 gallons anyway, so I think that that gallon is the 
equivalent to the first gallon of sparge water delivered to the top.  I 
think it is important that the whole column to the true bottom be filled 
with liquid to float the grains and to encourage a smooth flow.  
Sparging isn't straining, it's been described as "slipping the sweet wort 
out the bottom while slipping the sparge water onto the top." (Prof 
Lewis, I believe).  That dead space also allows solids to settle out.

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor

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Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 12:07:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: "nancy e. renner" <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Newbie kit brewer takes Best of Show!

 From *Jeff* Renner

Newbie kit brewers can take heart while graybeard all grainers liquid 
yeasters
can wonder.  At this fall's Michigan State Fair, Matt DePerno's *first ever*
brew took best of show, besting 102 other entries.  This was not a mediocre
entry in a lame competition either.  Experienced judges gave it high 
marks.  It
seems his dad gave him and his brother each a kit for Christmas.  His 
Brown Ale
recipe was  4 lb Ironmaster Imperial Pale syrup (sic), 4 lbM & F dark 
DME, 3.2
AAU Fuggles boiled 3 minutes, and the Ironmaster dry yeast that came with the
can.  He does seem to have gotten good advice on technique.  His entry for
indicated that he rehydrated his yeast in 100^F water before pitching, and
fermented in glass.  It shows good technique is perhaps the most important
ingredient.

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor
 P. S. Please pardon wierd formatting.  I'm learning a new mailer.

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Date: Fri, 16 Sep 94 12:21:58 -0400
From: Garrett_Pelton at TRICERATOPS.SOAR.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: RE: A real crack up

My guess is that you have an electric stove. Glass is not a
great conductor of heat, and an electric stove will attempt
to heat the glass at the point of contact with the burner. 
This can crack pyrex or apparently KIMAX. If you place one
of those heat spacers that you get with a glass coffee pot 
on the burner then it should work fine. You could also make 
one from a coat hanger.

I always heat my flask on the stove. But then I have a gas stove
and the heat is better distributed. When I use an electric stove
I use one of the heat spacers.

Not that I am sure about this, but I thought there were differences
between KIMAX and pyrex, with regards to the heat they could take.
But I could be wrong.

Gary

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Date:          Fri, 16 Sep 1994 11:55:22 CST
From: "geo" <WOLFF at albert.uta.edu>
Subject:       Copper siphon loop/whirpooling

Jeff Frane described a copper loop to be used in conjunction with 
whirlpooling to remove wort from the kettle.  I'd say it's even 
easier to make than Jeff suggests; instead of drilling fine holes and 
risking bit breakage, I cut 8 crosswise slots in the underside of the 
loop with a small hacksaw.  By running water through the loop and 
looking at the spray, I then adjusted the slots (further cutting 
and/or judicious slight bending) to give a uniform flow rate at each. 
 This ensures that the cone of hops + trub from whirlpooling is not 
pulled out of shape.  Jeff notes that the whirlpool should be left to 
settle down completely before starting the siphon; this is VERY 
important.  My setup, in conjunction with a two-stage wort chiller 
(total length of 3/8" tubing about 55"; total siphon drop height 
about 4' decreasing to 2'), takes about 20-30 minutes to empty 5 - 6 
gallons from the kettle.  With the external chiller, I still get cold 
break in the fermenter, but this hasn't resulted in off flavours that 
I can detect (as far as I can tell; I've only made heavyish ales 
since building the system).

Happy brewing
John Wolff
wolff at uta.edu

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Date: Fri, 16 Sep 94 13:48:53 536913656
From: Robert Hatcher <rhatcher at freenet.scri.fsu.edu>
Subject: Pub Crawls and the Oracle conference

I will be attending the Oracle conference in San Fancisco next week
(9/25-10/1).  I have gotten several suggestions for brew pubs and pub
tours.  I was wondering if any homebrewers might also be
attending and would be interested in meeting to quaff a few.  If
interested, I'm open to suggestions as to where to meet, otherwise
I'll be at the bar in The View (on top of the Marriott) around 9:30pm
on Sunday (my plane gets in late so I won't be going to the reception).
- -- 
Robert Hatcher                     rhatcher at freenet.scri.fsu.edu
Southern Company Services          There's only 2 things money can't buy:
Atlanta	                             that's true love and good homebrew!

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Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 17:44:46 GMT
From: rmoucka at OMN.COM (RONALD MOUCKA)
Subject: Canning Starters


Fellow Brewers,

After reading several posts about earlenmeyer flasks
breaking, I thought I'd add my 2 cents worth.

I used to make starters in flasks, small pans, microwaves,
etc. until I settled on canning my starters (actually
sterile wort).  I know this is nothing new or original, but
it has saved me a lot of time and hassle.  I simply make a 5
to 6 gallon batch of extract based wort with an ounce of any
hops to act as a preservative.  I then rack the entire batch
into  12 test tubes, 12 half pints, 12 pints, and 12 quarts
(Mason canning jars).  I then process (can) according to the
instructions that came with my 8 gallon enamel on steel pot.

About 4 or 5 days before brew day, I lift a colony of yeast
off one of the petrie dishes I store my yeast on, and swish
it around in one of the test tubes, and cap lightly.  Twenty
four hours later I combine the contents of the test tube
with one of the half pints in a small earlenmeyer flask and
cap with aluminum foil.  Next day I combine this with a pint
of sterile wort in a larger flask.  Next day I do it again
with a quart in a gallon jug, fitted with an air stone.
Over the next 48 hours, I give the starter several blasts of
air from my aquarium pump through a filter and the air stone.
By this time I have nearly a half gallon of very active
starter, ready to pitch on brew day.

A couple of cautions: since I don't cool the wort before
canning, there is a fair amount of break material in the
bottom of each jar.  I avoid pouring this in as I scale up.
Make sure you aerate as much as possible at every stage.  I
have stored these "canned starters" for over a year,
unrefrigerated, on the shelf without any detectable
problems.

The result of this process has been a reduction of lag time
from 12-48 hours to 4-6 hours.  My finishing gravities have
also been reduced from 1.014-1.018 to 1.010-1.014.

Hope this is of some use.  Besides, it gives me something to
play with each night :-).

Brew on,

       .:.
      :.:.
    /|~~~~|
   (_| D  |
     |  B |   Ron Moucka, Brewmaster
     `----'   DayBar Brewing, Ltd.
  "It's not so much an indication of our legal structure
   as it is a reflection of our abilities."

rmoucka at omn.com

           This message created on OMN BBS (303) 667-1149 data

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Date: 16 Sep 94 18:13:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: erlenmeyers

Bart writes
>So, I'm merrily working on getting my yeast culture medium (1.040 wort)
>up to a boil in my Erlenmeyer flask when I hear a nice CRACK.  Sure enough,
>a huge crack has developed across the bottom of the flask.  

I have not experienced this.  Granted, I have about 10 Erlenmeyers, ranging
from 250ml to 2L and so I probably have not used any one of them more than
15 times.  Perhaps it takes more usage.

However, despite being made from Pyrex (Corning), I try to not stress them
any more than I have to.  Sure, I probably could plop a flask full of
boiling wort into an ice bath, but I don't.  I put it into a SS bowl full
of the hottest tapwater my waterheater can muster and then add ice slowly.
Perhaps this has aided the longevity of my glassware.

I second DanMcC's sentiments on Laaglander.  I think it is protein content.
My starters always used to boil over when I used Laaglander dry.  Now I've
switched to Munton & Fison for starters and that maintains a managable
amount of foam during the boil.

Al.

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Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 14:24:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Whirlpools and HSA

Jeff writes:
> Subject: Trub Removal Bleus (that's French!)
> 
> Why is a whirlpool beyond your capabilities?  It's funny, I've heard
> this several times, and even read it in Mark Garetz's book on hops, but
> all you really need is a big spoon and some copper tubing and a very
> small drill bit.  

I agree, it is an easy time proven method of trub seperation.  Mark's
book said this???  Hummmm.
> 
> The bottom of the loop has been drilled with very fine holes.  I
> disremember the gauge, but I used a Moto-tool drill with a very fine
> bit; I was *very* careful drilling and didn't break the bit, but spares
> are a good idea.  The fine holes mean that only liquid passes through,
> and only once or twice have enough of them clogged to slow the siphon.
> 
> When I reach the end of the boil, I put the loop into the kettle, and
> then use a long, stainless steel spoon to start a whirlpool.  It's
> possible to get a really good spin going without splashing the hot wort.
> Then I put the lid back on the kettle and let it sit for about 20 min.
> During this time the vortex spins all the trub into a green mountain at
> the center of the kettle.  The copper loop runs *outside* the mountain,
> and by gentle siphoning I can draw off virtually every drop of wort.  
> 
> This system works best with hop pellets, as there is no way of squeezing
> wort out of a mound of soggy hops -- I still can use loose hops for
> finishing, but tend to keep it to a minimum.

Excellent ideas!  I would surmise that if you cut larger holes, you 
could use this for a batch made with only whole hops too.  
> 
> Years ago, my brewing partner and I ran everything through an open
> hopback -- the kettle had a tap in the bottom with a rough screen over
> it and the hot wort ran down into the lauter tun (now doubling as
> hopback) in which we threw fresh, loose hops.  These did a bang-up job
> of screening out trub and obviously added lots of aroma.  Having read
> George Fix on the subject of HSA in the meantime, I would generally shy
> away from this.

Well, you could easily arrange the hop back so that the wort does not
splash all over the place, increasing HSA.  Just using a cover to trap 
steam would keep the airspace full of water vapors, which may have less
tendancy to promote HSA.  I dont know, I am personnaly of the opinion
that HSA is a vastly overemphasized issue in homebrewing.  I can accept
its influence on longer term storage and shipping of packaged beers,
but I would suspect 90% plus of the homebrewers out there can improve
thier beer my looking elsewhere in the process.  That said, I see the
problem when brewing delicate lagers that may be abused in transit.

Good brewing,

Jim Busch

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Date: Fri, 16 Sep 94 15:46:44 EDT
From: Rmarsh747 at aol.com
Subject: Dextrin Malt vs. Honey

   I am working up a holiday beer recipe, my first, and am wondering if I am
wasting some time and money. 
   I plan to put 1/2 lb. of honey in the 5 gal. batch. I had planned on
putting 8 oz. of Dextrin Malt in as well, but after reading the description
of it, I am not so sure. Will I be getting the same effect using the honey,
rather than the dextose? Also, will it be overkill if I use both?
   What do you think?
   As a side note, how much dried orange peel should someone use for a five
gallon batch? I am new to these "special" ingrediants, such as peel and
spices. 

                                                         rmarsh747 at aol.com


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Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 17:31:09 +0500
From: mwithers at hannibal.atl.ge.com (W. Mark Witherspoon)
Subject: Vine conditions..

My vine conditions (I have the devestated vines) are:

	No large leaves (larger than a quarter)
	Only about a dozen or so small leaves.

	Some burs are present on some smaller "spidery" vines
	where most of the former leaves were.


Mark Witherspoon
mwithers at atl.ge.com


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Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 16:23:21 -0700
From: pepsi at cats.ucsc.edu
Subject: mailing list

could i please be put on your mailing list?

pepsi at cats.ucsc.edu

thanks,
espie santiago

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Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 17:01:31 -0600 (MDT)
From: todd boyce <tboyce at bohemia.metronet.org>
Subject: Octoberfest CDs

	While at the CD store I happened upon a double-box set of
traditional German Octoberfest songs. The name was something like
Ocktoberfest-Traditional German beergaden songs. Or something to that
affect. I thought this might be of intrest to the readers of HBD, so if
you are going over you can party just like the natives. It was cheap at
9.95 dollars US. Or you can just turn up the boil, crank the stereo, relax
;-0 sing and have a homebrew.

Hoppy brewing
Todd



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Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 19:11:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Derek Atlansky <ATLANSKYD at axe.humboldt.edu>
Subject: Help

Hello,

I am fairly new to homebrewing and am having a problem with my most recent
batch.  On 9/11/94 I brewed a honey wheat beer from extract.  After 
a few days, I was getting no activity from my airlock.  A layer of 
foam a few inches thick covered the top of the beer.  I decided to
pitch a packet of dry yeast into it. (BTW, the first yeast was liquid --
Wyeast)  It is now 2 days later and still no activity, but the
foam is still there.  The beginning specific gravity was 1.059.  The 
specific gravity is now 1.020.  Is this a lost cause?  I would appreciate
any ideas you may have.

Thanks!

Derek
atlanskyd at axe.humboldt.edu

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Date: Fri, 16 Sep 94 20:10:43 PDT
From: Todd Gilbert <toddg at cruzio.com>
Subject: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com

homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com

- -- 










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Date: Fri, 16 Sep 94 23:06 CDT
From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Geneva Beers


===> Re: Geneva Beers

>Thanks for the input...I am going to a TG 1/3 and then SG 1 meetings,
>and last year we had about one hour off in three days, sat in the
>park by the lake and wished for a homebrew.  Heard from
>longmore at tyrell.net about a cafe with a good selection of Belgian
>(yum) beers on Avenue Wendt near Avenue Luscerna that I will check
>out.

You might also want to try the Grand Duke Pub.  It's one block off
Quai du Mont-Blanc behind the Hilton.  It's at the intersection of
Rue Phil.-Plantamour and Rue de Monthoux.  

- -- 
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel                                 pgravel at mcs.com

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Date: Fri, 16 Sep 1994 23:05:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Jay Lonner <8635660 at NESSIE.CC.WWU.EDU>
Subject: Trub removal -- summary

A few days ago I appealed to the HBD for help in keeping trub out of my
fermenter.  A lot of people suggested that I was actually seeing spent grains
as a result of poor mashing procedure -- one respondant even thought I was
referring to the grain left in the lauter tun...

But I've been doing this for a while, and I know trub from not-trub.  My recent
barleywine had a solid 8" of it, which is unprecedented in my mashing
experience, and the motivation behind my query.

Specific suggestions offered were:

- -- Don't boil the wort; just heat it and add a hop "tea" at the end.  A unique
   solution, but one that I will avoid; everything I have read convinces me
   that a rigorous boil is an essential part of any beer, especially an
   all-grain beer.
- -- Rack the wort off the settled trub the morning after brewing.  I've done
   this before with good results, but I want to find an answer that minimizes
   the amount of racking I have to do.
- -- Let the wort settle in the boiler for an hour prior to racking it to the
   fermenter.  Several respondents suggested I use aluminum foil to cover
   my lidless boiler during this period.  This a suggestion I'll follow,
   reluctantly; it adds another hour to an already-long day of brewing, but
   the payoff seems worth it.
- -- The most popular suggestion was the old faux whirpool trick, i.e. stirring
   the wort really fast and letting the spent hops and trub gather in the 
   middle. In the past this trick never worked for me, but the replies I 
   received have led me to believe that my whirlpool was not rigorous or long
   enough, so I'll try it again.  A high-tech brewer suggested coiling copper 
   tubing flush with the interior of the boiler, after having drilled lots of 
   small holes in the copper.  You then rack from this tube after stirring.  
   This is a good idea that I will not try out immediately since I'm lazy and 
   don't want to build it.
- -- Irish moss was also suggested several times.  I've used IM in the past,
   but didn't see the proteins coagulate until after the wort had been 
   transferred to the primary, resulting in clumpy trub.  But I'll start
   using it again, since it might be more effective when used in conjunction
   with the settling period and whirlpool technique.
- -- Some brewers also suggested using pellet hops for bittering, since they're
   easier to rack off of (an observation that I agree with).  But ever since
   I've been buying my hops from the The Hop Source (and no I don't own it)
   nothing less than fresh whole hops will do!  They have made a big difference
   in my beer.
- -- "Sparge the trub" by racking the wort from the boiler to the fermenter, and
   then adding water to the trub and letting it settle out even more.  I may
   try this, if the other ideas don't work out.
- -- Strain the through a grain bag while racking it to the fermenter.  This is
   another idea I was glad to receive, but will file away for use only if
   other techniques don't work.

I think that's it.  Nothing revolutionary, mostly just refinements and
clarifications of suggestions that appeared in Kinney Baughman's zymurgy
article a few issues back.  Thanks to those who wrote. 

Jay.

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Date: Sat, 17 Sep 1994 06:39:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: PAULDORE at delphi.com
Subject: Montreal Pubs

Anyone know of any good pubs or brewpubs in the Montreal Canada area?

If so, please mail me the address, and also if anyone knows of any brew
supply stores in the Montreal area, please tell me them too.

I'm planning a trip there in a few weeks.

Thanx
Pauldore at delphi.com

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Date: Sat, 17 Sep 1994 08:41:41 CDT
From: Al Gaspar <gaspar at STL-17SIMA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Challenger hops?


The latest catalog from William's Brewing lists an English hops called
Challenger.  I have seen this hop mentioned before, but the William's
catalog is the only profile that I have seen (I've looked in the FAQ
and Mark Garetz's book).  I'd like more information on this hop, if
anyone knows of a source, I'd appreciate it.  Thanks much.

Cheers--

Al

- -- 
Al Gaspar       <gaspar at stl-17sima.army.mil>
USAMC SIMA, ATTN:  AMXSI-TTC, 1222 Spruce St., St. Louis, MO  63103-2834
COMMERCIAL:  (314) 331-4354  AUTOVON:  555-4354
relay1.uu.net!stl-17sima.army.mil!gaspar

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Date: Sat, 17 Sep 94 15:59:47 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: still more on nw extracts                                        

- ----------------------- Mail item text follows ---------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino
      Research Analyst
Subject: still more on nw extracts

Joe Clayton (claytonj at cc.tacom.army.mil) reports having brewed thin
brews using the NW light ("gold"?) extract and wonders whether others
have had the same problem. Well, I haven't, and that's why I continue to
use it.

Post again and give us some specifics. How much do you use for your
usual pale ale or other styles where you've had the problems? What are
your original and terminal gravities? Other details? It's difficult to
speculate without knowing what and how you're brewing.

I know that you can use light extract for everything and rely entirely
on your specialty grains for the colour. It has the theoretical
advantage of giving you more control over the process than if you used
the darker extracts. You also end up using more grain than you would if
you used a darker extract. Sure, grain is cheap, but if I'm going to
brew a stout, at least one of the bags of extract will be a dark if I
have it on hand. The other might be another dark or an amber or a light,
and I will adjust my specialty grains appropriately. The DME I add will
almost certainly be light, because I don't typically keep darker ones on
hand--I just don't have that much use for them.

When I use the NW extracts, a "typical" 4.5-5 gallon batch will include
two 3.3 pound bags of the liquid extract, a pound or two of DME
depending on what I want to make, and the appropriate mix of specialty
grains totalling a pound or two, sometimes more, sometimes less. (For a
higher gravity style, I'll use three bags of liquid.) Obviously, this is
oversimplified, but it should give you an idea. If you're using less
malt, you might have a thinner beer. For what I brew, I don't often get
terminal gravities under 1.010. One suggestion that might help is to use
some carapils. I've had good results with the DeWolf Cosyns carapils,
which is described as being more of a very light crystal than a "true"
carapils. I brewed a low alcohol "swill" as an experiment (O.G. 1.024)
and got a refreshing summer brew that nonetheless had pretty decent
body, partly because I used a pound of the carapils in it. It's not the
type of beer the typical homebrewer wants to drink very often, but it
showed me that it can be done. A bag of extract, a pound of grain, a
total of an ounce of hops (Kent Goldings for bittering and Saaz at the
end of boil), and a pack of, yes, dry yeast. Two cases of beer for $8 in
ingredients. I entered it in the specialty category (anything that
didn't fit elsewhere) in the Wisconsin State Fair and took a third place
ribbon for it, to round out the first and second place ribbons I got for
other entries. Without the carapils, I'm sure I would have had a very
watery (and unbalanced, even with just an ounce of hops) brew.

I haven't done any controlled experiments to know whether the NW
extracts ferment lower than other extracts. It would be interesting to
know more about the composition of different brands of extracts to try
to answer Joe C.'s questions. I'm just adding my few data points to say
that I have had satisfying results with the stuff. Without more
information about your too thin brews, it's hard to say why, but try
some carapils and increase your other crystal malts as well.

Beer is good food,







Bob Paolino
Disoriented in Badgerspace

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Date: Sat, 17 Sep 94 14:47:17 -0700
From: Gary L. Melton <gmelton at CS.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Propane cookers and sanitation

I've been scanning digests from the archives for some time now and
I've seen lots of references about not using propane cookers inside
for safety reasons, but I haven't found a reference to sanitation
problems when you brew outside.

I've been thinking about getting a propane cooker for some time now
because I'm tired of waiting ages for my old electric stove to bring
5+ gallons to a boil.  However, I'm afraid that brewing outside would
expose my precious wort to a wide range of sanitation problems.  I'm
not worried about the time before the boil or while it's boiling, but
doesn't it get dangerous after the boil?  I use an immersion chiller,
and I have copper tubing running into and out from the kettle, so I
can't keep the lid closed.  So there's a significant period during
which the wort is below the boiling point but above pitching
temperature and the kettle is not closed.  I don't particularly want
to carry my enameled steel kettle inside when it's full of boiling
wort because I know that the handles aren't going to support all of
that weight.  How do you handle this, or is this just another "Relax,
yada yada" problem?

Thanks,

Bud
gmelton at xenon.stanford.edu

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Date: Sat, 17 Sep 1994 18:24:35 -0500 (CDT)
From: Cree-ee-py Boy <BIRMINGH at FNALV.FNAL.GOV>
Subject: Duvel Recipe

Ronald Moucka asks:

         [Does anybody have a Duvel clone recipe for my friend?]

         I'm afraid that your friend has a tough row to hoe.  Duvel's wort
    is split unequally into two batches and fermented with two separate
    yeasts. One of these is removed before the two beers are blended.

         I can't help you much, but I read in the AHA convention
    transcripts that Duvel is about 30% corn sugar.



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Date: Sun, 18 Sep 1994 08:15:47 +48000
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>
Subject: Carboy holders

I also use plastic milk crates to hold my carboys.  7 gallon carboys fit
tightly into a standard milk crates, 5 gallon ones are a bit loose.  Use 2
bungy cords attached to the crate and wrapped around the carboy neck to
secure them snugly. 

Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia at zgi.com



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Date:     Sun, 18 Sep 94 13:50:31 CDT
From: "Charles S. Jackson" <sjackson at ftmcclln-amedd.army.mil>
Subject:  long fermenting ale

salutations,

     For the malt PREZ I have referenced the several texts that reside on my 
brewing shelf and there is no club nor other fellow brewers about these parts 
to ask so:  2 weeks ago I brewed the holiday cheer recipe from TNCJOHB.  I have
recently adopted the wet towel method of cooling and this is the only new twist
to my extensive 8 batch brewing experience to date.  The problem is after 2 
fulll weeks it is still perking away at about 1 bubble every 4 seconds (in the 
air lock).  It rumbled like a volcano for 5 full days, spewing forth great 
quantities of foam from the blow off tube.  I have never had so vigorous a 
fermentation.  My last batch also had the wet towel treatment but it didn't 
last anything like this one.  Are the spices responsible or is this just a long
fermentator for some other reason.  Just wondering if it will be ready to 
bottle before christmas.
     Thanks to all the folks who have helped me  through my strugglin'
beginnings.  If someone has an idea of how someone like me, who has read quite 
a bit and is getting along rather could tackle the task of the answering the 
virgin/brewer-to-be questions.  Perhaps a group of us could share the task, 
leaving more time for the real heavy hitters to address teh bigger questions.  
I am more than willing to "pay" for the help I have received to date.  Any 
suggestions?

Steve
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brewing beer is far more exciting when it is both a hobby AND a felony!
                                            The Alabama Outlaw

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Date: Sun, 18 Sep 1994 23:36:00 GMT
From: pete.koets at tstation.mn.org (Pete Koets)
Subject: ADDITION TO MAILING LI

From:  pete.koets at tstation.mn.org
RE:    Addition to Mailing List

Please add me to your mailing list.


Thanks,


Pete
 * RM 1.2  * Eval Day 1 * RoboMail -- The next generation QWK compatible reader


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Date: Sun, 18 Sep 1994 20:08:18 EST
From: Bob Bessette <bessette at uicc.com>
Subject: Full-boil extract questions...

Fellow Brewers,
 It has been a while since I have written to the HBD but I have a small
problem that I know I have read about before but I forget what the solution
was. I just completed my 3rd full boil extract brew utilizing a Sankey keg
that I purchased. I also use a King Cooker to boil the full wort. This time I
felt very relaxed doing the full boil extract. After having done 6 prior
batches doing a partial boil extract and adding cold water to get it up to 5-6
gallons I very definitely recommend that you go the full boil extract route if
you can. Granted you will have to purchase a wort chiller to get the temp down
quickly for pitching but after tasting the results there is a clear advantage
to brewing in this manner as opposed to the partial boil extract. Yes, I do
want to go to all-grain but haven't done so yet. I may make the stab at it
next Spring but am happy with my results thus far with the full boil extracts.
I am also one who likes to delve into ventures one step at a time so I think I
am going about this in the correct manner. At least now I am used to doing a
full boil and using a wort chiller. 
 This leads me to my problem. I have a dark spot at the bottom of my keg from
wort that has baked on the keg. I have tried using B-Brite to get it out but I
am having no luck. Any recommendations? Also when I do the full boil outside I
am always afraid of leaves, insect, etc falling into the wort especially
during chilling it. Is the solution to get some type of stainless steel screen
to put on top of the keg? Someone out there has had to solved this problem.
Also I would love to hear from anyone else who is doing full-boil extract
brewing to get any tips from them. Please email me directly with any
information you may have...

Bob Bessette (future all-grainer...)
bessette at uicc.com
Systems Analyst
Unitrode Integrated Circuits
Merrimack, NH 03087


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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 00:19:47 -0500 (EST)
From: SMG9871%SIENA.BITNET at VM.ITS.RPI.EDU
Subject: cider

 I was wondering if anyone knew of a cider recipe that would come
close to Wood Chuck dark and dry draft cider. This is the only "beer"
that my wife to be will drink and I want to try and make her some.

Thanks,

Mark Garwatoski

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Date: Sun, 18 Sep 1994 19:26:27 MDT
From: Kevin Schutz <kschutz at atmel.com>
Subject: Questions about spicing brews with spice teas

Greetings!

Last year I requested information on methodology for determining
the correct amounts for adding various spices to brews.  The
method I settled on is to create a spice "tea" by steeping
spices in alcohol (I've been using vodka), straining the
tea, and then adding the tea at bottling to taste.

Now for some more background.  This method has worked great so far.
The beers I have spiced have been your basic Pale Ale made from
DME and usually some added crystal.  Hops have been Cascades.
Yeasts are usually farmed from Sierra Neveda PA, sometimes the
Wyeast 1968 ESB.  I use am immersion chiller.  That said, I have noticed 
a unique reaction on 2 occasions.  When I first started to make spices beers,
I experimented around with various individual spice teas of various
strengths.  I added these normally to make my beers.  Then I decided
I would start to get cute.  I was worried that I may be adding too much 
vodka to the beers, so when I went to make a spiced beer using multiple
spices, I created just 1 tea.  When this tea was added at bottling, I
created some sort of break in my bottling bucket.  Really bizarre
stuff.  Not knowing what happened, I went ahead and bottled.  The 
resulting beer was very clean and very clear.  It also had about 
1/2 inch of sediment at the bottom of the bottles!

I sort of forgot all about this until resently when I was experimenting
around with another combination for an upcoming holiday brew.  Sure
enough, the multiple, complex spice tea caused small amounts of "breaks"
to occur.  For my second batch, I went ahead with using this tea, but I 
added it to a secondary, before bottling.  Hopefully this will allow
me to bottle sans this break material.

Any ideas on what sort of reaction I am causing?  Why would this reaction
be different than adding the spices individually?

Thanks,

Kevin


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1530, 09/19/94