FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  INBOX Message (See Below) (Mailer.MC1)
  Re: Challenger hops? (Tel +44 784 443167)
  Saaz cone size (Chuck E. Mryglot)
  demer-what? (RONALD DWELLE)
  Competition Announcement ("Robert C. Santore")
  Re: Honey vs. Dextrin Malt (bickham)
  Celis ("Anderso_A")
  Brewing with Winter Rye (Jim Ancona)
  Nuking starters in the uwave (Bob Jones)
  safely heating wort for a starter (eurquhar)
  HopTech Fruit extracts (MARK CASTLEMAN)
  beer alergy (Turner)
  A clarification on HSA (Jim Busch)
  ErlenMeyers / Dry Hops / Blowoffs / Outside wort Worries (COYOTE)
  Help with FTP Mail of HBD files (elpeters)
  Moving it outside... (Kaesm)
  Pyrex, Kimax, Breakage (Jim Liddil)
  what is Racking ? (MFOR8178)
  Mashing Wheat (Wolfe)
  dextrin,honey bubbles (/R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/)
  Cracked flask summary (Bart Thielges)
  Borosilicate glassware (Cree-ee-py Boy)
  pub names (long) (cush)
  FREE (PLASTIC) CARBOYS (Randy Erickson)
  Propane&Sanitation/NA Beer and nasties/Getting Red color ("William F. Cook")
  Call for Help from the Pacific Northwest (Richard A Childers)
  Info/Recipe Request (t.duchesneau)



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Subject: Homebrew Digest #1530 (September 19, 1994)



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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 10:07:07 +0000
From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167)
Subject: Re: Challenger hops?


In HBD 1530, Al Gaspar <gaspar at STL-17SIMA.ARMY.MIL> writes:
> The latest catalog from William's Brewing lists an English hops called
> Challenger.
 
     I can't tell you very much other than what I found in "Home Brewing
 - The CAMRA Guide" by Graham Wheeler. The book says that it is a Wye College
hop which is high in essential oils and considered a general pupose hop.
It has good aroma and can be used for copper hopping, late hopping or dry
hopping and is Britain's second-most popular hop. Seeded and un-seeded
versions can be obtained with alpha acid contents of 7.7% and 9.3%.
Cheers,
     Brian


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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 94 08:14:13 EDT
From: cem at cadre.com (Chuck E. Mryglot)
Subject: Saaz cone size

Are mature Saaz hop cones smaller than other hop varieties?  I grow Mt. 
Hood and Centennial. Both have a good size cone when mature...1 - 1 1/2 
inch. I put in a Saaz root this year and got a small harvest... 4 oz 
before drying. But I noticed that the cones never seemed to get larger
that 3/4 inch.  They seemed to be ready for picking so I don't think
they were still growing. Is this the proper size.... or might it be 
because they are from a new bine.

chuckm

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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 94 08:27:39 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: demer-what?

     My father-in-law was in England on business and got invited to a 
     home of a homebrewer for supper and had the best beer he'd ever 
     had in his life (he said). He told the host his son-in-law was a 
     brewer, and the host wrote down the receipe to give to me. The 
     recipe looks like a pretty normal light ale, but it has one 
     ingredient I don't know--"demerara." (not too confident about the 
     spelling). The receipe calls for one pound of it. Charlie P 
     doesn't use the word and my dictionary says it's a river in 
     Guyana. ?
     

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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 08:48:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Robert C. Santore" <rsantore at mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: Competition Announcement

                   COMPETITION ANNOUNCEMENT
                     SALT CITY BREW CLUB
                      NOVEMBER 12, 1994

The Salt City Brew Club is holding their second annual AHA 
sanctioned open competition on November 12, 1994, at Syracuse 
Suds Factory, Syracuse NY.   Doors open at 11:00 AM for setup.  
Lunch will be provided for judges and stewards. 

Entries can be submitted in any AHA style except for Sake and 
Cider.  Entries must be brewed in a non-commercial  setting.  
Entries from a brew on premises are not allowed.  All entries 
must be categorized in an appropriate AHA style.

A total of  10 categories will be judged.  Categories with few 
entries will be combined. Awards for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place in 
each category plus best of show will be given.  Additional 
prizes will be awarded from commercial sponsors.  We hope to 
have sponsors for all categories by the time of the 
competition.  All awards will be given.

Each entry must consist of three plain green or brown bottles, 
10 to 14 oz.  Each entry must be accompanied by a competition 
entry form and proper payment.  Entries must be identified with 
a competition label secured with a rubber band.  Entries should 
not have raised glass or silk screened marks.  Marks on bottle 
caps should be blackened out.

The fee for entries is $5 for one, $9 for two, and $12 for 
three.   Additional entries can be submitted for $2 each.   
Entries may be dropped off at Hellers Homebrew (Syracuse, NY), 
E.J. Wren Homebrewer (Liverpool, NY), or Summer Meadow Herb 
Shop (Ithaca, NY).  Entries can also be shipped to E.J. Wren 
Homebrewer, 209 Oswego St., Liverpool, NY 13088 (phone 315-457-
2282).  Entries may be dropped off between October 15 and 
November 5.

Judges at any level that are interested in joining us are 
welcome to contact Bob Santore for more information.

For more information and competition forms, contact:

Peter Garofalo,  Competition Organizer
     (315) 428-0952 (evenings), (315) 432-2432 (days)
Kieran O'Connor, Competition Registrar
     koconnor at mailbox.syr.edu
Bob Santore, Judge Director 
     rsantore at mailbox.syr.edu




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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 08:51:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: bickham at msc.cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Honey vs. Dextrin Malt

From: Rmarsh747 at aol.com
Subject: Dextrin Malt vs. Honey

>   I am working up a holiday beer recipe, my first, and am wondering if I am
> wasting some time and money. 
>    I plan to put 1/2 lb. of honey in the 5 gal. batch. I had planned on
> putting 8 oz. of Dextrin Malt in as well, but after reading the description
> of it, I am not so sure. Will I be getting the same effect using the honey,
> rather than the dextose? Also, will it be overkill if I use both?

It's a common misconception among homebrewers that honey will add lots
of body to a brew.  Actually, the honey is almost completely fermentable,
which is why most meads finish with gravities below 1.000.  Honey actually
tends to lighten the body and dry out the finish, Sam Adams Honey Porter
being a good example.  The different varieties give different esters
as well, and these would be nice in an X-mas beer.  So my recommendation
is to add both: dextrin malt for body and sweetness, honey for aroma and
a boost to the alcohol content.

>   As a side note, how much dried orange peel should someone use for a five
> gallon batch? I am new to these "special" ingrediants, such as peel and
> spices.

For my belgian whites, I add about an ounce for the last 15 minutes of the
boil.  You can also dry "spice" by soaking the peels and any other spices
in vodka for a couple of days and then adding the mixture to the secondary.
The alcohol does a nice job extracting volatiles from the spices.

Auf ein neues,
		Scott
- -- 
========================================================================
Scott Bickham
bickham at msc.cornell.edu
=========================================================================

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Date: 19 Sep 94 07:36:00 EST
From: "Anderso_A" <Anderso_A at hq.navsea.navy.mil>
Subject: Celis

Message Creation Date was at 19-SEP-1994 07:36:00
      
          Greetings,
               I would hate to be classified as a gossiper or a
          portent of ill omens, so I will ask this as a question and
          not state it as a fact.  Over the week-end I was told by two
          completely different, and reasonably reliable, sources that
          Pierre Celis has just recently sold his Austin operation to
          Miller.  Evidentally, Miller really covets the equipment
          more than the beer.  This last "nugget" of information comes
          from Miller distributors in Texas.  Now I'm asking you, is
          there any truth to these rumors?  If "yes", I'd have
          expected to see long columns in the HBD describing the end
          of Western Civilization as we know it (-:  Hopefully,
          someone closer to this issue can shed some light and dispell
          or confirm this evil rumor.  (However, it wouldn't surprise
          me to see Pierre sell out and then take the money and build
          a bigger brewery.)

          Cheers,
          Andy A


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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 09:57:53 UNDEFINED
From: janco at atluw01.dbsoftware.com (Jim Ancona)
Subject: Brewing with Winter Rye

I was in the garden shop this weekend and saw a 5# bag of Winter 
Rye seed for sale. It occurred to me that I might be able to make 
beer out of it, and if not, I could always overseed my garden for 
the winter. The seed looks like overgrown grass seed (somewhat 
smaller and darker than 2 row barley malt).  I assume I will have 
to crush it. Papazian claims that it gelatinizes at mash 
temperature (no cooking required), and that it tends to make a 
sticky mash.

So my questions are: 
1-Is Winter Rye seed the same grain that is normally referred to 
as rye?

2-Any reason not to try using this stuff? (There is no indication 
on the bag of any fungicides or other nasties being used.)

3-Anyone have any good partial or full mash recipes using unmalted 
rye? (I'm not ready to try malting it myself yet!)

Thanks!
- --
Jim Ancona
JANCO at dbsoftware.com
Opinions expressed are my own, and not those of D&B Software.

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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 07:34:18 +0900
From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: Nuking starters in the uwave

On the subject of boiling starters in the microwave. Yep, did it. The trick
here is to put the starter solution in the uwave and watch it very closely
as it comes to a boil. Just as it starts to boil, reduce the power to about
2 or 3 and keep watching. You will find a power level setting on your uwave
that will provide a nice rolling boil without blowing the starter solution
out the top. This is very tricky. You must dance the power setting up and
down while watching the starter. This isn't easy due to the screened glass
on all uwaves. Put a plate under the flask just in case to minimize the
cleanup. I used a screw top flask. Remove the flask ASAP when finish
boiling. The inside of a uwave is pretty a good breeding ground for all
sorts of things that would rather live in your starter. If are using an
airlock, place a cotton plug in it while it cools. This will filter the air
that will be sucked into the cooling vessel.

Good luck,

Bob Jones
bjones at novax.llnl.gov



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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 08:21:36 -0700
From: eurquhar at sfu.ca
Subject: safely heating wort for a starter

Hi everyone,
        There has been a lot of bandwidth concerning pyrex and heating
lately.  It can stand alot of heating and cooling if done evenly.  Usually
I will autoclave my starters as I have an easy access to such equipment. 
However, sometimes they need repairs and I need a starter NOW !  What I
have been doing is using the microwave.  I have not had any problems with
this type of sterilization but it is a little different with a few rules.

1. Make sure the bottle is very clean and 2X the size of the amount of wort
   you wish to sterilize.

2. I have found that individual serving glass bottles such as used by fruit
   juice/ice tea producers ie. Snapple are perfect for this task as they
are 
   heat resistant glass and come with a metal cap which can be separately
   sterilized in boiling water.  They are also 475 ml.

2. Pour in the required amount of wort.  Put 1 or 2 small glass marbles
into
   the bottle or flask to reduce the chance of violent boiling and the 
   boil-overs that occur.  Mark the outside of the flask with a non water
   soluble marker so you will know when original volume has again been 
   reached.  

3. Dilute the wort with approx. 1/3 as much water as there was wort to be
   sterilized.  It will boil down to the original volume.

4. Cover the opening loosely with a piece of saran wrap that extends 1/2
way
   down the side of the bottle/flask to keep it sterile while cooling.

5. Microwave on high and boil for example, 150 ml final volume I have used
   10 minutes at full boil.  You may be able to get with less time for 
   smaller volumes.

6. Let cool with saran wrap on top loose.  Inoculate and put the sterilized
   metal cap on loosely to allow exhange of oxygen.

        Hope this is helpful for everyone.

Eric Urquhart (eurquhar at sfu.ca)
Centre for Pest Management, Dept. of Biological Sciences
Simon Fraser University, Burnaby , B.C. Canada V5A 1S6


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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 09:22:57 -0600 (MDT)
From: MARK CASTLEMAN <mwcastle at ouray.Denver.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: HopTech Fruit extracts

	I am considering making a dark rasberry ale for Christmas.  Has 
anyone used HopTech's concentrated fruit extracts?  How well did they 
work?  Any important caveats?

                             Mark W Castleman
                     Big Dog Brewing Cooperative - West
                  Beer is my business, and business is good! 


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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 94 11:17:26 EST
From: turner at cel.cummins.com (Turner)
Subject: beer alergy

I have a friend who is alergic to beer. This only developed in the last 2
years. He likes beer and wants to determine what could be causing the
reaction. I submit it to the experienced and better informed. I have hit
the information brick wall.

The reaction is a tightening of the throat causing difficulty to breathe
and swallow. It is caused by all industrial beers he has tried, to varying
degrees. Probably the worst reaction was from Michelob (tm). He can drink
wine coolers and mixed drinks with no reaction. He can drink Sharps (tm)
with only a VERY SLIGHT reaction after a whole bottle. (with Mich (tm) one
swallow set him off bad).

Does anyone here know of any common alergens in beer that would not be
present in NA beer and other alcoholic drinks? The hope is to develop a
Hypo-Allergenic beer for him.

Please send private E-mail. If I get responses I will summarize.

Thanks in advance,
Steve Turner                                         turner at cel.cummins.com

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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 14:33:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: A clarification on HSA

Since I posted the note about my opinion that HSA may be an area
of too much concern, I realized that the discussion was centered 
on HSA effects on bitter wort as it is handled onto the fermenter.
This is indeed an area where one should be careful to avoid HSA
prior to chilling, as in a hop back (or worse, as wort is put
through a funnel/strainer).  Distinct sherry notes can develop 
from this practice.  In my brewery there is some HSA that occurs
in the production of sweet wort.  In my opinion, this has not 
had terrible consequences on the beer quality.  Now, maybe this 
is all just part of my house character, but usually my house beers
dont sit around long, or get abused in transit, which can really 
damage an otherwise fine beer.

Good brewing,

Jim Busch 

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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 11:20:48 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: ErlenMeyers / Dry Hops / Blowoffs / Outside wort Worries

on the Erlenmeyer thread: 
	after the cracking story, I checked my two 1000 ml flasks. 
One is Pyrex, the other Kimax. I've used both a bunch, and neither has
broken.  I'm not very nice to them either.

	I've used electric stoves, direct gas heat, and even plunged them
directly into ICE cold water on numerous occasions.

	Not to say they pups won't break!  THe glass is thin. I have lost
some before.  Scratches are bad news.  DO NOT BUMP A FLASK INTO A GALLON
FULL OF HONEY (yes- I meant to shout!).  A thin glass pushed abruptly 
against a thick glass will have detrimental results on the thin glass!

As for the description of the flasks having a VOLCANO shape- enuf sed...
WELL:  That effect can be MOST evident if you heat in a microwave.
I would not reccomend using FULL power, or tight covers.
In fact- even for just boiling water, I will NOT use a microwave!
They can and will ERUPT fluid all over the inside of the machine!

Another caution:  If you heat the water first, let it cool a bit,
THEN add some DME.  If you add it at direct boil- be sure to have a sponge
handy,  you'll need it!
Also stirring at the onset of boil tends to release lots of gas= spewage.

My solution:  (aka- the Coyote Way) 
	Use the patended "Pre_Boiler"  also known as a small sauce pot.
(I actually have a pyrex coffee pot- thick glass, metal strap, glass handle)
Mix water, heat somewhat.  Add DME.  THen after a boil, pour into a presterile
flask, cover with foil, or airlock.  Place in icebath, or just cool water.
Swirl on occasion (but don't bump it!) and replace the water when warmed.
Once cool- pitch yeast, off you go.

Another option: Use two flasks. Heat water in the first. Place DME in the 
second. After the boil, pour the hot water onto the DME. Mix to dissolve.
Then GENTLY reheat the wort until the first bubbles of a boil form.
Remove from heat and cool.

Another thought:  Add boiling chips to facilitate bubble formation and
ease the threat of the Volcano Effect.

***
I'd like to publicly thank Dave (it wa Dave wan't it?) who posted the wonderful
sommary of info gleaned from the other Dave (Wills) at freshhops, and his
personal experiments with hop drying, and use of wet hops.

Very nicely stated, organized and informative post.  Good thing you don't 
ramble the way I do!!!!

***
Blowoffs:
	Someone mentioned that the cold break would be left at the bottom,
and had concern that he'd lose the yeast off the top.
Maybe your primaries aren't as active as mine, but with all the tumbling and
turmoil (oh- so this is what you mean) of my early primaries churns up any
and all matter that would be on the bottom, and with the movement I am SURE
that all the yeast are not on top, and that ALL the yeast won't be lost to
blowoff.

	I don't know how soluble the bittering elements are, but some nasty 
stuff does get pushed out.  I've had side-by-side primaries, one blowoff,
one not, and haven't tasted the non-blowoff and gone-  Ptuuey.  So....

BUT:  I have sworn (again and again) that I will ALWAYS start with a blowoff
tube.  The threat of a clogged airlock, and exploding carboys, or major
mess due to spewage is not worth the risk (IMHO). And even if it doesn't
actually blowoff, the worry is eliminated.  If you have a large carboy and
leave like a foot of headspace, then sure...no worry.
Personally I fill my 7 gallon cardudes...cuz I like BIG BREWS!

YMMV.  Do what you like.  DoWhatYouLike.

***
Bud- has some concerns about outside brewing, open lids, and contamination

FWIW  the /NEW/ Cosmic Coyote PicoBrewery is located in a furry, dusty
garage.  It is located right next to the dirty dog pen. They like to run
and kick up the dust. The whole garage is covered with a thick layer of
dust which spontaneously regenerates with a very short half life!

It is also the dogs (all 4) passage to the outside. They like to hang out and
eat food, and shed like crazy in there.

My solution: Lock them outside during the brew process.
Swab the deck- in the immediate area of the brewing with bleach soln.
Chill fast as I can (I have an immersion setup) and keep the lid on as
well as I can.  You can use some extra foil around the open spot of the lid
where the chiller emerges.  js even drilled holes through his lid for his
immersion chiller, so there is no air contact.
I rack, and pitch BIG.  That's my goal, add as much active happy yeast
as possible and get that ferment pumping!


So...brew on ya'll!  The Coyote Speaks.		

	\-/-\ John (The Coyote) Wyllie   SLK6P at cc.usu.edu
 

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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 94 13:57:44 EST
From: elpeters at srel.edu
Subject: Help with FTP Mail of HBD files

Hello:

I'm sorry to post this request to the list, but I have been sending this
request to the listowner at the administrator address for over a month and
a half and received no response.

I am having trouble retrieving the HBD archive files from the server using
FTP mail. I have been successful in obtaining the HELP files and the INDEX
files, but not the actual files themselves. I have tried several variations
on the send request, but I don't even get an error message. Could someone
please try to retrieve a file and then send me the proper syntax. I know
that I'm a newbie to the HBD (hence, wanting to read the FAQ before posting!),
but I have used FTP mail for some time now (I have to, as my site has a
dialout to Internet only a few times a day for security reasons), and I have
never had this problem before.

Thanks in advance,

Eric Peters elpeters at srel.edu

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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 94 13:10:03 EDT
From: Kaesm at aol.com
Subject: Moving it outside...

Good day fellow brewers...

Regarding moving the brewing process outside, I went to all grain brewing
about 18 months ago and began brewing on my back patio. My dog didn't seem to
mind too much. My recommendation is to follow Charlie's rule of relax-don't
worry...

Do what you can to observe proper sanitizing, but my belief is that there is
more bacteria floating around your kitchen than in you back yard (think of
all that goo in the garbage disp.) The only infected batch I have made were
due to external problems that had nothing to do with the brewing process.
There is another brewer in our local club who also brews outside on a crab
cooker and he makes very good brews. 

I brew in my garage in the winter (it gets rather chilly here in OR) and have
had no problems regarding that either. Every one will find what works best
for them where technique is concerned. Move it outside...your wife (or
significant other) will be eternally greatful and you'll make fabulous brews
with little or no trouble...

Matt Kaess
kaesm at aol.com






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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 10:55:02 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Pyrex, Kimax, Breakage

Here are the technical specs for pyrex and kimax


			Pyrex		Kimax
Annealing Point C	560		565
Strain Point degree C	510		513
Specific Gravity	2.23		2.23
Specific Heat cal/g C	0.2		0.205
Thermal Conductivity	0.0027		0.0028
Linear Coef of Expans.	33e-7/C		32e-7/degree C

These glasses are very similar.  With repsect to cracking, I spoke to the
Croning Technical Services twice about this.  First I have NEVER cracked a DRY
erlenmeyer on a Laboratory Hotplate.

I was told the serviceable life of a 1 liter Pyrex erelenmeyr is 1000's of heat
cycles as long as the temp is not greater than 230 C.  One can even heat it to
400 C but only expect 100-200 cycles.  As long a s water is in the flask it
should not exceed 100 C if EVENLY heated.

Also heating over a flame is not a
problem.  The problem is due to the extremely low thermal conductivity of pyrex
glass.  Using an electric stove causes localized heating and expansion greater
in one area than another area and a stress crack occurs.  As others have 
suggest use a heat diffuser, a lab hot plate :-) or a flame.  
And don't put your glass through to much thermal stress whether 
it is pyrex or kimax.

Jim 
Change Your Mind.

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Date:         Mon, 19 Sep 94 15:04:23 EDT
From: MFOR8178 at URIACC.URI.EDU
Subject:      what is Racking ?

Sorry about asking such a seemingly obvious question, but since I am NEW
to this (both the network and brewing) I am going to give it a try.
Flame me if you want, Im man enough to not worry
What is Racking? I have seen it mentioned in a few posts and was wondering if
it is something that I have done already and not realized, or if it something
I have not done and should be doing.
I have only brewed two batches so far, a pale ale that came out decent but not
great, and last night a made up a wort of English Bitter, that I hop comes out
tasty and dark and roomtempature and not very carbonated.
Anyway, I dont want to bore you with my drivel, just wondering what Racking
means.
Later, Mike

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Date: 19 Sep 94 11:39 CST
From: Wolfe at act-12-po.act.org
Subject: Mashing Wheat

     I'm getting ready to do my first all-grain wheat beer with an
Easymasher.  Does anyone have experience with an Easymasher and malted
wheat?  I'd like to know if it is prone to stuck sparges due to the higher
protein and lower husk content of the grist.  Also, what, if any, changes
do I need to make in the mashing procedures to compensate?

Ed Wolfe
wolfe at act-12-po.act.org

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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 15:28:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: /R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/ at mr.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: dextrin,honey bubbles

R. Marsh asked about using honey instead of 
dextrin malt in his holiday beer
recipe.  I would advise against it, as the 
dextrin malt would add mouth feel
and body while honey would completely 
ferment out and add alcohol and maybe
some residual flavor.  In fact dextrin malt 
would do almost the exact opposit
of honey.

Atlansky at axe.humboldt worried aout not 
getting bubbles in his fermenter yet
seeing a high krausen and drop in o.g.  
More than likely you have an air leak
allowing the CO2 to excape without going 
out the air lock.  I wouldn't worry
about it, but next time check the seal 
using an empty fermenter with an
airlock and press on the top to increase 
the pressure (assuming your using a
plastic fermenter).  This should cause 
bubbles to go out the air lock if you
have a good seal.

Hope this helps,
Andy Kligerman



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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 94 10:41:54 PDT
From: bart at nexgen.com (Bart Thielges)
Subject: Cracked flask summary

Thanks to all of you who responded regarding my cracked flask problem.  The
overwhelming response indicated that these Pyrex/Kimax flasks are not
designed to be heated directly on a burner since the heat is not evenly
distributed.  One easy way even out the heat distribution is to place the
flask in a pan with a little water.  This would have the added benefit as
a catch basin for boil overs.  I'm going to use that method for now on.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Bart		bart at nexgen.com
Brewing equipment destroyed since last message : 0 (good thing since I haven't
	brewed lately  !  :-)

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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 16:05:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: Cree-ee-py Boy <BIRMINGH at FNALV.FNAL.GOV>
Subject: Borosilicate glassware

         Al Korzonas says, concerning his Pyrex flasks:

>However, despite being made from Pyrex (Corning), I try to not stress them
>any more than I have to.  Sure, I probably could plop a flask full of
>boiling wort into an ice bath, but I don't.

         Good thing, too.  I can't speak about Pyrex, but my bitter
    experience convinces me that the above is a really good way to crack
    Kimax (actually, it was a graduated cylinder, and I was spraying cool
    tapwater on the outside, but you get the point.)

         One thing I can get away with is setting the flask in the freezer,
    on top of a potholder.  This keeps things from cooling down too
    rapidly.

- --
 Phillip J. Birmingham    
 birmingh at fnalv.fnal.gov "Tampering in God's Domain since 1965!"

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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 16:43:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: cush at msc.edu
Subject: pub names (long)

I came across this in the book "The Mother Tongue" (by Bill Bryson), about 
the history of the English language...I got a chuckle out of it, and thought 
I would share it with the Digest.  I hope it's length does not clog the 
digest too much.  (posted without permission....)  (my apologies for 
mistakes and typos...I typed it quickly, and did no proof reading other than
spell-checking)

                               *  *  *
 . . .
Equally arresting are British pub names.  Other people are content to
dub their drinking establishment with pedestrian names like Harry's Bar
and the Greenwood Lounge.  But a Briton, when he wants to sup ale, must
find his way to the Dog and Duck, the Goose and Firkin, the Flying
Spoon, or the Spotted Dog.  The names of Britain's 70,000 or so pubs
cover a broad range, running from the inspired to the improbable, from
the deft to the daft.  Almost any name will do so long as it is at
least faintly absurd, unconnected with the name of the owner, and
entirely lacking in any suggestion of drinking, conversing, and
enjoying oneself.  At a minimum the name should puzzle foreigners -
this is a basic requirement of most British institutions - and ideally
it should excite long and inconclusive debate, defy all logical
explanation, and evoke images that border of the surreal.  Among the
pubs that meet, and indeed exceed, these exacting standards are the
Frog and Nightgown, the Bull and Spectacles, the Flying Monk, and the
Crab and Gumboil.

However unlikely a pub's name may sound, there is usually some
explaination rooted in the depths of history.  British inns were first
given names in Roman times, 2,000 years ago, but the present quirky
system dates mostly from the Middle Ages, when it was deemed necessary
to provide travelers, most of them illiterate, with some sort of
instantly recognizable symbol.

The simplest approach, and often the most prudent, was to adopt a royal
or aristocratic coat of arms.  Thus a pub called the White Hart
indicates loyalty to Richard II (whose decree it was, incidentally,
that all inns should carry signs), while and Eagle and Child denotes
allegiance to the Earls of Derby and a Royal Oak commemorates Charles
II, who was forced to hide in an oak tree after being defeated by
Cromwell during the English Civil War.  (If you look carefully at the
pub sign, you can usually see the monarch hiding somewhere in the
branches.)  The one obvious shortcoming of such a system was that names
had to be hastily changed every time a monarch was toppled.
Occasionally luck would favor the publicans, as when Richard III
(symbolized by a white boar) was succeeded by the Earl of Oxford (blue
boar) and amends could be simply effected with a pot of paint.  But
pubkeepers quickly realized that a more cost-effective approach was to
stick to generic names, which explains why there are so many pubs
called the Queen's Head (about 300), King's Head (400), and Crown (the
national champion at more than 1,000).

Many pubs owe their names to popular sports (the Cricketers, the Fox
and Hounds, the Cockpit), or to the workaday pursuits of the people who
once drank in them.  Pubs like the Plough, the Fleece, the Woolpack,
and the Shepherd's Rest were clearly designed for farmers and
farmworkers.  The Boot was for cobblers, the anchor for sailors, and
the Shoulder of Mutton for butchers.  Not all references are so
immediately evident.  The Beetle and Wedge in Berkshire sounds
hopelessly obscure until you realize that a beetle and wedge were basic
tools of carpenters 200 years ago.

Many of the oldest pub names represent religious themes - the Crossed
Keys, the Seven Stars, the Hope and Anchor.  the Lamb and Flag, a
fairly common name in Britain still, was the symbol of the Knights
Templar, who rode to the Crusades, and the Saracen's Head and Turk's
Head commemorate their enemies' fate.  Still other pub names are build
around catchphrases, homilies, puns, and bits of philosophy, or are
simply of unknown provenance.  Names such as the Tumbledown Dick, First
and Last, Mortal Man, Romping Donkey, Ram Jam Inn, Live and Let Live,
and Man with a Load of Mischief  (the sign outside depicts a man with a
woman slung over his shoulder) all fall into this category.

The picture is further clouded by the consideration that many pub names
have been corrupted over the centuries.  the Pig and Whistle is said to
have its roots in peg (a drinking vessel) and wassail (a festive
drink).  the Goat and Compasses is sometimes said to come from "God
Encompasseth Us."  The Elephant and Castle, originally a pub and now a
district of London, may have been the Infanta de Castille.  The Old
Bull and Bush, a famous pub on Hampstead Heath, is said to come from
Boulogne Bouche and to commemorate a battle in France.  Some of these
derivations may be fanciful, but there is solid evidence to show that
the Dog and Bacon was once the Dorking Beacon, that the Cat and Fiddle
was once Caterine la Fidele (at least it is recorded as such in the
Doomesday Book), and that the Ostrich Inn in Buckinghamshire began life
as the Hospice Inn.
 . . .
- -- 
	> Cushing Hamlen, Client Services	|	cush at msc.edu
	> Minnesota Supercomputer Center, Inc.	

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Date: 19 Sep 94 14:23:51 EDT
From: Randy Erickson <74763.2312 at compuserve.com>
Subject: FREE (PLASTIC) CARBOYS

When I recently bought a house,  the seller, upon learning that I am a
homebrewer, left me a half dozen plastic carboys.  Five of these are the bottled
water type and one is a Nalgene(tm)-looking thing with a gasketed screw-on lid.
I think the brand is Sciencecraft or something.  All are five gallon, all have
been covered, and none contain(ed) gasoline, paint, motor oil, BudMilob, Zima,
etc.

What are some possible uses for these things and what sort of caveats apply?
Uses that come to mind are trub settlers, bottling carboys, cooled boiled
tapwater containers, emergency fermenters, etc.

Just how "bad" is plastic for brewing?

TIA, Randy


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Date: 19 Sep 94 12:50:59 EDT
From: "William F. Cook" <71533.2750 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Propane&Sanitation/NA Beer and nasties/Getting Red color

Gary Melton w*rries about the sanitation issues of brewing outside. I would
guess that the inside of the average house contains a fairly large assortment
of nasties in quantities at least comparable to what is outside on the back
porch. I actually had a string of infections once that halted as soon as I got
a propane cooker and started brewing outdoors. This might be a special case
that applies only to bachelor's kitchens, however. My only caution about
brewing outdoors is that the pot has to be covered to keep the leaves out.

Regarding the various methods for making low-alcohol homebrew, primarily from
Jack Schmidling, I think, I am concerned that the lack of alcohol leaves the
brew vulnerable to wild nasties. It seems that the widely held belief that
nothing that can kill you or make you sick can live in beer would not apply to
a very low-alcohol concoction. Am I w*rrying needlessly? I'd like to hear some
thought on the matter if anyone has any.

I've been trying to make a beer with a really RED color. Something along the
lines of Pete's Wicked Red (color-wise, anyway). Unfortunately, everything
I've tried has left me with too much brown/amber. My reading has suggested the
use of a high proportion of Munich malt, but some 1# test mashes produced
extract that didn't look at all red. I've tried a small amount of various
roasted grains but never got anything that I thought was satisfactory, and
in one case was force to alter my hop bill and make a porter (and a damn
good one, I might add). Does the collective wisdom of the HBD have any
suggestions? I guess I should mention that I'm an all-grain brewer.

Thanx in advance!
Bill Cook
HydroComp, Inc.
Team Dennis Conner


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Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 16:31:40 -0700
From: pascal at netcom.com (Richard A Childers)
Subject: Call for Help from the Pacific Northwest


Who could resist such a heartfelt plea ? I ask you !!		(-:


"From: Derek Atlansky <ATLANSKYD at axe.humboldt.edu>
 Subject: Help

"I am fairly new to homebrewing and am having a problem with my most recent
 batch.  On 9/11/94 I brewed a honey wheat beer from extract.  After 
 a few days, I was getting no activity from my airlock.  A layer of 
 foam a few inches thick covered the top of the beer.  I decided to
 pitch a packet of dry yeast into it. (BTW, the first yeast was liquid --
 Wyeast)  It is now 2 days later and still no activity, but the
 foam is still there.  The beginning specific gravity was 1.059.  The 
 specific gravity is now 1.020."


Hmmm. Sounds suspiciously like fermentation, Derek, amigo. The foam is a
dead giveaway. So is the falling specific gravity .... *something's* going
on in there, that's for sure.

The odds are that everything is going perfectly, and that the second batch
of yeast was not called for.

You know what it sounds like, to me ... ? A loose airlock. I've seen it a
dozen times, at least. A tiny, tiny little less-than-perfect seal between
the glass and the rubber, and there goes your basis for building pressure
differentials.

I have found that industrial epoxy cement is the best solution. It makes
an excellent seal, and you can now carry the carboy by the vapor lock, as
an added bonus. < ahem > Seriously, now ... there are three ways to fix it.

(1)	The Easy Fix ... reseat the plug a couple of times until it's
	set better.

(2)	The Hard Fix ... pour a little sugar water along the seam between
	the plug and the glass of the carboy. ( Kind of like epoxy but it
	dissolves in water. )

(3)	The S/He-Man Fix ... pick the carboy up, rotate it until the fluid
	laps at the inside of the plug, and do like (2), but without using
	sugar water. This is actually more efficient, as the scum atop the
	wort is more likely to plug up whatever cracks exist, also sticky,
	and is being pushed into place from the inside pressure. I prefer
	(3), and, in fact, can be seen, frequently, waltzing with my carboy,
	late into the night, trying to correct small leaks.	(-:

(4)	There's also a George Fix but I've heard his consulting services
	are pretty expensive for a lowely homebrewer.		(-;

	Besides, he'd just refer you to the Home Brew Digest ...	(-:


Well, gotta get back to inhaling commercial solvents. Later, gang !!


- -- richard

                 Law : The science of assigning responsibility.
              Politics : The art of _distributing_ responsibility.

   richard childers        san francisco, california        pascal at netcom.com

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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 01:05:00 UTC
From: t.duchesneau at genie.geis.com
Subject: Info/Recipe Request

  A couple years ago, a friend vacationed in Ireland and came back raving
about a beer (ale?) called Smithwick's.  Recently he and some other friends
went to Montreal for the weekend and found Smithwick's there.  Now they're
all telling me how wonderful it is.
 
  Can anyone give me an accurate description of Smithwick's?  Does anyone
have an extract recipe which might come close to duplicating it?  I haven't
found any references to it in any of the books I own or the ones I checked
at Borders.  Any help would be appreciated.  TIA.
 
                                ...Tom
 
 
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1531, 09/20/94