FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Instant Diacetyl? / Outdoor boiling (David Draper)
  NY Beerfest 2 (Jim Keesler)
  Dane on the track again (Morten Hansen)
  Re: Pubs Names (Matt Townsend)
  chinook (Roger Lepine)
  kegging... (abaucom)
  Hops arbor and Brewhaha (Al Gaspar)
  Demer-what? ("Jim Webb")
  Smithwick's (20-Sep-1994 0914 -0400)
  RE: HopTech fruit extracts ("Robert C. Santore")
  RE: Celis and Miller (Jim Busch)
  Hop Plants ??? ("KFONS Q/T INV CNTRL .. 7814")
  Meaning of racking (COX003)
  Origins of MEADE (FSAC-FCD) <dward at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
  Re: demer-what? (Tel +44 784 443167)
  Re: what is Racking ? (Tel +44 784 443167)
  cutting down hop bines (Chuck E. Mryglot)
  anal requirement (Ulick Stafford)
  RIMS ("Joe Stone")
  Demerara sugar (Matthew Sendbuehler)
  Demmerara Sugar [sp????] (Vanek)
  Liquid Yeast Question... (Bob Bessette)
  Celis sellout? No way. (Ethan Mason)
  E-flasks, carboy handles, Wyeast 3068, Zapap tuns (MHANSEN)
  Yeast re-use / Yeast FAQ (Glenn Anderson)
  Delirium tremons (Domenick Venezia)
  Guest brew at home / SS racking canes (npyle)
  Raleigh NC Brewpubs (DBLAKE1037)
  Moving hops (Tim McNerney)
  Recipe Request: Swan Lager (Michael Adams)
  Portland / Oregon Brew/Wine/Food Recommemdation Request (Miu Wang)
  Racking Off (in public! 8-O  ) (COYOTE)
  Time/temp program (KWH)
  3rd Annual Minnesota Brewfest. ("Jim Ellingson")
  Plastic Carboys/red beer/stuck? ferment (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  re-bottling question (Kelvin Kapteyn)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 17:45:24 +1000 (EST)
From: David Draper <David.Draper at mq.edu.au>
Subject: Instant Diacetyl? / Outdoor boiling

Dear Friends, I am at the end of a recent batch of Steam(tm) beer, and have
encountered something odd.  Three of my last bottles have an overwhelming
diacetyl note--it tastes like buttered popcorn.  All the rest of the bottles
tasted fine--in fact, this is one of the (if not THE) best beers I have made. 
Of the final four bottles, only one did not have this (I am drinking it as I
write this).  One of these bottles was only about 3/4 full because it was the
last one to be filled (good to the last drop!), but the other two were from
elsewhere, and one of these I know for sure was among the first 6-8 bottles,
because it was in a 750 ml bottle that I had intended to enter in one of our
club's frequent, informal competitions (good thing I didn't in the end, comp
day was just too nice for me to convince my wife that I should be in the pub
instead of on the beach with her!), and I always fill the big ones first for
no particular reason.  An important point here is that I have been steadily
depleting this batch and have not encountered this flavor until just a couple
days ago, and I don't drink the bottles in the order they were filled!  I am
perfectly willing to accept that there was some problem in the
bottle-cleansing stage, but what could cause such an intense diacetyl flavor
to develop after about 40 days in the bottle (assuming that the onset was
sudden)?  Here are the specifics: Partial mash, single infusion at 65C for 90
min, mashout at 77C for 10. 3 kg 2-row, 250 gr 80L crystal, 50 gr each flaked
barley & wheat malt, 1.4 kg light extract syrup, 35 gr 6.8% Northern Brewer
pellets 60 min, 25 gr more 10 min, 25 gr more 2 min. Wyeast 2112, OG 1045, FG
1014. Bottles are sanitized with a weak bleach solution and rinsed immediately
before filling.  Thanks for any insights.

A couple posters in #1530 asked about the potential post-boil dangers of
outdoor boiling.  Seems the obvious solution is to cut small openings around
the edge of the pot lid where the chiller tubing enters & exits the pot.  In
this way the lid can still sit nicely on top.  The next step in my evolution
is to move onto the balcony for full boils etc, and this is what I will do.

Cheers, Dave in Sydney
- --
"Life's a bitch, but at least there's homebrew" ---Norm Pyle
******************************************************************************
David S. Draper, School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, NSW 2109
Sydney, Australia. email: david.draper at mq.edu.au fax: +61-2-850-8428
             ....I'm not from here, I just live here....



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Date: 19 Sep 94 22:24:25 EDT
From: Jim Keesler <74021.376 at compuserve.com>
Subject: NY Beerfest 2

I do not know if this has been posted yet, but I am falling behind in 
reading the HBD and yet had to comment on the NY Beerfest 2.

After attending last years Beerfest, I was looking forward to an 
interesting day tasting and talking beer.  And after reading in the Ale 
Street News that the Port-O-John problem was going to be taken care of 
this year (1/2 hour waits for relief last year), I thought it would be 
perfect.  Boy, was I wrong.

The scheduled start time was 12:00 noon.  My party and I arrived at 
about 11:30 and there were about 200 people ahead of us - more than 
last year, but nothing to worry about.  However, when the gates opened 
at noon, it took us 20 minutes just to get in, and there was a very 
long line behind us.  This problem went on all day, as friends of mine 
told me of 45 minute waiting as late as 1:30.

Unfortuneately, by 1:30, all was chaos.  The two tents were wall to 
wall people and there was absolutely no way to talk to any of the 
people pouring the beers.  As it was probably the last hot, humid day 
we will see in New York this year, it is amazing that no one passed out 
from the heat.

They certainly did not pass out from the beer.  Shortly after 3:00, the 
Samuel Adams booth ran out of beer.  And by 4:00, better than half 
(probably almost 75%) of the booths had no beer and people were 
scrounging for what was left.

I could go on, but it would only be more griping.  My main complaint is 
this:  Last year I would estimate attendance at 4000.  Promoters had 
said in the ASN that if ticket sales went over 5000, there would be two 
sessions.  Well, apparently advance ticket sales may not have exceeded 
5000, but it seems that they must have sold that many at the door.  The 
fact that the brewers/distributors ran out of beer so early only goes 
to show that no one expected the number of people present.  This can 
only be the fault of the organizers, who allowed ticket sales at the 
door and never again made mention of the secong session.  They must 
have had an inkling of the attendance numbers, as this Beerfest was 
much more heavily promoted on the local radio stations and in the newspapers.

All right, I've said my piece, as rambling and uncoherent as it is.  
Thanks for your patience.  Does anyone know how to contact Steve Hindy 
or any of the other organizers?  Perhaps if enough people express their 
discontent now, changes can be made that will allow us to enjoy 
Beerfest 3.  Otherwise, I would have to believe that the Beerfest will 
die a quick death due to too many unhappy customers.

Thanks again for your patience and the bandwidth.

Regards,
Jim


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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 12:13:03 +0200
From: Morten Hansen <mhan at control.auc.dk>
Subject: Dane on the track again

To whom it might concern,
After 10 weeks of inactivity, I`m now back in the Digest. My new address is :

	Morten Hansen
	Skovvej 21 2. th.
	9400 Noerresundby
	Denmark

	Email : MHan at control.auc.dk

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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 11:44:34 GMT
From: Matt Townsend <WHCMT at cf.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Pubs Names

Thanks to Cushin Hamlen for the article on British pub names,
there are many unusual named pubs throughout the UK and many
have a long history as the article suggests.

In many cases pubs still stand on their original site, some 
going back hundreds of years. One unfortunate occurance is that
many pubs are having their names changed from their old ones
to new more marketable ones by the men in suits.

Some examples are The Crown - now The Slug and Lettuce.
The Blue Bell - now the Goat Major.
The Old George - now Walter Mitty's
And another new pub called the Newt and Cucumber.

These names have no history and probably arise from a large
book of advertising executive's 1000 and 1 new names for pubs.

In Wales we have several ancient pubs, most notably The Blue Anchor
at Aberthaw which has been on that site for several hundred years.
Within the Cardiff area there are many historic named pubs:
The Ty-Yn-Y-Pwll Inn, Three Horseshoes, Forester's Arms, 
The Black Lion.....

Preserve us from the likes of The Yellow Kangeroo, for the sake
of history plus telling the wife I'm just off down the Black Lion is
much better than I'm just off to the yellow Kangeroo !

Happy supping

Matthew J Townsend
Townsend at Cardiff.ac.uk

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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 7:47:38 EDT
From: Roger Lepine <lepine at hpanrd.an.hp.com>
Subject: chinook

 hi all;

  anybody out there know of any brewery that uses chinook and/or
willamette hops in their beer?

    thanks

       roger l.

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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 7:53:40 EDT
From: abaucom at fester.swales.com
Subject: kegging...

I've tapped my first corny keg (filled with Weizen) and it is flat.  Initially
the beer comes out looking carbonated but It is just an agitation foam because
when the head dies down, the beer is flat.

Question:  What CO2 pressure/time-length is needed to artificially carbonate
5 gallons O'beer?

(the keg is refrigerated, the CO2 is not, and the beer was primed with ~1 cup
 malt extract for several weeks and had pressure when I initially tapped it)

TIA, 
Andrew

PS...the beer tastes great...just flat...

- ------
Andrew W. Baucom, abaucom at fester.swales.com
Settle down, Beavis...

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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 07:06:29 CDT
From: Al Gaspar <gaspar at STL-17SIMA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Hops arbor and Brewhaha


Trying to save a little bandwidth and put these two questions
together...

First, my wife wants to shade one side of a slab that we have at the
back of our house.  I suggested hops ;-).  She said fine!  I know I
have seen it in beer gardens grown for shade.  Can I get away with a
six to eight foot trellis?  The lenght of the area I would be trying
to cover is about 15 feet, how many plants should I figure?  Should I
plant now for plants in the spring or can I wait?

Second, I was looking at the Brewhaha program that was posted at the
archive site.  It has an option under File to load the Cat's Meow. 
However, it uses Microsoft Access format (*.mdb).  How can I get the
Cat's Meow into this format?  Do I have to wait for the next release
of Brewhaha?

Thanks for the help.

Cheers--

Al

- -- 
Al Gaspar       <gaspar at stl-17sima.army.mil>
USAMC SIMA, ATTN:  AMXSI-TTC, 1222 Spruce St., St. Louis, MO  63103-2834
COMMERCIAL:  (314) 331-4354  AUTOVON:  555-4354
relay1.uu.net!stl-17sima.army.mil!gaspar

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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 13:51:01 -0400
From: "Jim Webb" <webb_j at sudhqc.ndm.gov.on.ca>
Subject: Demer-what?

[This message is converted from WPS-PLUS to ASCII]

RONALD DWELLE writes:
>My father-in-law was in England on business and got invited to a 
 home of a homebrewer for supper and had the best beer he'd ever 
 had in his life (he said). He told the host his son-in-law was a 
 brewer, and the host wrote down the receipe to give to me. The 
 recipe looks like a pretty normal light ale, but it has one 
 ingredient I don't know--"demerara." (not too confident about the 
 spelling). The receipe calls for one pound of it. Charlie P 
 doesn't use the word and my dictionary says it's a river in 
 Guyana. ?
     
Demera sugar is a thick, coarse-grained very dark brown sugar.  I've seen 
it in my local grocery stores - right next to the 'yellow sugar' and 'dark
brown sugar'.  I've also seen it in most bulk food stores.

If you can't find it in your area, you could probably substitute a mixture
of dark brown sugar and blackstrap molasses.

How about posting the recipe for the rest of us to see?

Jim Webb
webbj at gov.on.ca

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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 09:18:17 EDT
From: 20-Sep-1994 0914 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Smithwick's

First off, just to set the record, Smithwick's is pronounced as
	SmiTHicks, the "TH" is pronounced like the "TH" in "this"

anyways, Smithwicks is pretty much a normal plain ale.  kinda like 
sam adams boston ale, although not nearly as hoppy and a bit more
light.   when i was in ireland (3 times), i usually enjoy a pint or
two or three.  there's nothing _that_ special about it.  i think this
would closely approximate it:

5 gal:

	7# 2-row
	3/4# crystal, 40L
	1/2 oz hops boil
	1/2 oz hops finish.

maybe even 6# of 2-row since irish beers tend to be low in alc, in the
3-4% range.

jc

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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 09:35:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Robert C. Santore" <rsantore at mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: RE: HopTech fruit extracts

On Tue, 20 Sep 1994, From: MARK CASTLEMAN <mwcastle at ouray.Denver.Colorado.EDU>
> 	I am considering making a dark rasberry ale for Christmas.  Has 
> anyone used HopTech's concentrated fruit extracts?  How well did they 
> work?  Any important caveats?

I've had some experience with the peach and cherry extracts.  I think they
produce decent beers, but if you are used to real fruit beers you'll be
dissapointed.  I brew about one or two fruit beers a year and always use
real fruit.  I bought a bottle of extract out of curiousity, and then
another bottle was given to me.  The peach extract has a minor chalky
flavor that I find objectionable.  The cherry extract is reminiscint of
cough syrup and/or hard candy.  There is no doubt that beers made with
these will have an identifiable fruit flavor.  One advantage is you can
vary the intensity of the flavor since the extracts are added at bottling. 
A little experimentation on bottling day will let you know how much you
want to add, or if you want to add any at all.  But in my opinion they are
so far from the real thing that I won't be trying them again.  

Bob Santore                  Dept. of Civil and Environmental Engineering
rsantore at mailbox.syr.edu     Syracuse University

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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 09:58:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: RE: Celis and Miller

Andy writes:
> Subject: Celis
> 
>                I would hate to be classified as a gossiper or a
>           portent of ill omens, so I will ask this as a question and
>           not state it as a fact.  Over the week-end I was told by two
>           completely different, and reasonably reliable, sources that
>           Pierre Celis has just recently sold his Austin operation to
>           Miller.  

Not to worry!  From what Ive heard, its just a distribution agreement,
just like A/B distributes Old Dominion products, Miller's distributers
will help to ensure the Celis products are handled with respect.  Now
before everyone jumps on this arrangement let me say that when A/B
took over distribution of Old Dominion's beers in VA, sales soared,
since the quality beer is on every shelf next to a A/B product.  
Sometimes, the big guys can be of help to a buisness that is at the
right production level.  

Good brewing,

Jim Busch

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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 08:53:03 -0500 (CDT)
From: "KFONS Q/T INV CNTRL .. 7814" <KFONS at china.qgraph.com>
Subject: Hop Plants ???


I recently ordered some hop plants, however, I am unsure exactly what type of
hops they may be.  The scientific name is Humulus Lupulus Aureus.  What are
they?  Are they good for brewing?  If not, where is a good place to buy hop
plants (mail order)?

Kevin

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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 10:03:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: COX003 at WCSUB.CTSTATEU.EDU
Subject: Meaning of racking

Don't worry you probalby(i hope) get flammed for your question about the
meaning of the word racking.  Its simple the process of transf
(sorry)transfering your wort from your primary fermantation vessel to
a second fermantation vessel after the bubling in the air lock has
subsided to about once a minute.  This allows more sediment to fall out,
and results in a smaller sediment deposit on the bottom of the fermentation
vessel.  Which in turn lets you siphon more beer,  of a clearer quality, into
your bottles.  It really will cut down on many off flavors and the yeast
deposit in your bottles will probably shrink a bunch also.  It becomes
a neccisity with all grains.  I hope this helped some.  If not feel free
to write private e-mail  cox003 at wcsub.ctstateu.edu  .
I am not by any means an expert but will help all i can!!
Relax  - Enjoy a homebrew...
                 Aaron

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Date:     Tue, 20 Sep 94 10:01:35 EDT
From: "Darren L. Ward" (FSAC-FCD) <dward at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  Origins of MEADE

	I'm interested on looking up the origins of MEADE.  Is there any
reference material out there that is readily available, any old postings
in someones private email library?  Thank you for any help.

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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 15:15:43 +0000
From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167)
Subject: Re: demer-what?


In HBD 1931, dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE) wrote:
> 
> My father-in-law was in England on business and got invited to...
> ... and the host wrote down the receipe... but it has one ingredient
> I don't know--"demerara."
> 
     Demerara sugar is a form of brown cane sugar (granulated) but I
don't know what makes it different from brown sugar in general. The
best description I've had so far is that it is not as soft as many of
the soft brown sugars and maybe slightly sweeter. I would suggest that
experimenting with various brown sugars would probably be the best
approach. Depending on the other ingredients, it is possible that the
demerara doesn't introduce much in the way of flavour compounds but
many UK homebrewers use brown cane sugars in preference to white cane
sugars to ease the guilt about using sugar at all.
 
Cheers,
     Brian


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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 15:25:53 +0000
From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167)
Subject: Re: what is Racking ?


In HBD 1531, MFOR8178 at URIACC.URI.EDU wrote:
> [Stuff cut]
> Anyway, I dont want to bore you with my drivel, just wondering what Racking
> means.
 
     In short - Racking means transferring a liquid to a clean vessel in order
to leave sediment, trub and other undesirable nasties behind. It is usually
achieved by syphoning and is done by winemakers and beermakers at different
times during the relevant processes.
Cheers,
     Brian


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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 10:47:45 EDT
From: cem at cadre.com (Chuck E. Mryglot)
Subject: cutting down hop bines

Now that I have harvested all of my hops for this year,
should I cut the bines down now or wait until late fall
when the leaves have fallen off..... or doesn't it matter.

ChuckM

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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 10:42:05 -0500 (EST)
From: ulick at ulix.rad.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: anal requirement

Why to competition entry forms always have this this idiotic anal rule?

Each entry must consist of three plain green or brown bottles, 
10 to 14 oz.  Each entry must be accompanied by a competition 
entry form and proper payment.  Entries must be identified with 
a competition label secured with a rubber band.  Entries should 
not have raised glass or silk screened marks.  Marks on bottle 
caps should be blackened out.

What is wrong with clear bottles, big bottles, Bass bottles, overrun caps?
While it is understandable that the nationals have standards to lend an aura,
this is hardly the case for a competition in Podunk, NY, or whereever.  And
I know the judges are just as anal, because one once made a big stink about
my 'clear violation' sending a bottle with raised lettering.  Yet another 
reasaon not to pay people to drink my beer.
__________________________________________________________________________
 'Heineken!?! ... F#$% that s at &* ...  | Ulick Stafford, Dept of Chem. Eng.  
    Pabst Blue Ribbon!'               | Notre Dame IN 46556
   http://ulix.rad.nd.edu/Ulick.html  |    Ulick.Stafford at nd.edu   


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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 08:12:34 PDT
From: "Joe Stone" <JSTONE at SJEVM5.VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: RIMS

  I am looking for different ways to "plumb" a three-vessel, three-burner
RIMS.  I would especially be interested in information detailing the Brew
Magic:  placement of valves; orientation of magnetic drive recirculating
pump; ...

  It is my understanding that the Brew Magic utilizes three gas burners
and an electric heating element for precise temperature control (+- 0.1
degree F) in the recirculating path.  The water/wort appear to be plumbed
to a box containing the pump, heating element and electronics.

  The Brew Magic positions the sparge vessel and the mash vessel in the
same plane.  I assume, with the use of valves, the pump (in addition to
recirculating) is used to transfer sparge water to the grain bed.  Wort
is apparently gravity fed into the boiling vessel.

  The other option is to have the mash vessel and the boiling vessel in
the same plane.  Sparge water is gravity fed and the pump would transfer
wort from the mash vessel to the boiling vessel.

  Currently, I use the latter setup, moving a hose between the mash
vessel and the boiling vessel.  I'm looking for something more permanent
into which I can incorporate a heating element in the near future.

  I'd appreciate any information you can provide.  Thanks.

Joe

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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 11:51:37 +0059 (EDT)
From: Matthew Sendbuehler <sendbu at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca>
Subject: Demerara sugar


Someone asks about demerara sugar, which is apparently the
secret ingredient for a pale ale his father-in-law sampled
in England.

Demerara is a cane sugar, hard to find and whenever I have,
ridiculously expensive.  But it is indeed a great adjunct
for a pale ale, and (I just checked) it's named after the
place in Guyana where it's made.

If you can, try to track down the real thing.  My local supermarket
has some "Demerara-style" sugar, which I suspect means that
like other 'ordinary' brown sugars it's just refined sugar
that's had some molasses added back.  Maybe a health food
store would be the best place to look for the real stuff?

I'm sorry, it's been so long since I've seen any that I can't
describe the flavor, but look for large (1-2 mm) clear crystals
of a light golden colour.

Mmmmmm.  This brings back memories of a simple pale ale recipe
that I used to make.  Not being a full-mash brewer, but also
not being crazy about syrups (especially pre-hopped ones),
this one seemed a happy medium.  It's from old memory, so
if you try it use your good judgement and experience to correct
for my aging neurons (and please report on results!).

6 lbs pale DME
1/2 lb 40L crystal malt steeped until just before boil
1 lb demerara sugar
1 oz Northern Brewer in boil
1/2 oz Cascade to finish
1 tsp gypsum [optional]
[epsom salts? can't remember]

I believe I was using Edme ale yeast at the time.

(For 20 litres/~5 US gallons)

If any Southern Ontario readers remember the original
Conners Pale Ale, this was a passable knock-off...
(I may be underestimating the quantity of Cascade,
because that beer's distinguishing feature was a
very powerful Cascade nose.)


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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 11:48:11 
From: Vanek at aepco.com
Subject: Demmerara Sugar [sp????]


     In response to Ron Dwelle:
     
     Demerara sugar is a large crystal, less refined sugar.  I'm fairly 
     sure it is sucrose, without all the "brown stuff" removed through 
     refining.  Available in the UK--I think the closest I've seen is 
     something that Domino sugar sells in a one lb. box. . . 
     
     Check your local grocery.
     
     Good Luck!
     
     Tom Vanek
     vanek at aepco.com
     tvanek at aol.com

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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 11:58:29 EDT
From: Bob Bessette <bessette at uicc.com>
Subject: Liquid Yeast Question...

Fellow Brewers,

 I have another issue which is bothering me a bit. I have been using liquid 
yeast now for the last 4 batches but I never get a real active fermentation. 
Recently I read that I should always use a starter with liquid yeast. I 
haven't done this yet. Should I be doing it and what is the best method of 
doing a starter? BTW, the beer comes out great but maybe it could be better...
Please email me directly...

Bob Bessette (future all-grainer...)
bessette at uicc.com
Systems Analyst
Unitrode Integrated Circuits
Merrimack, NH 03087


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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 11:12:13 -0500
From: Ethan.Mason at ccmail.natinst.com (Ethan Mason)
Subject: Celis sellout? No way.

     After reading yesterdays posting, I feverishly called the brewery.  
     Fortunately, they said that it was untrue, and assured me that it was 
     purely conjecture--probably on the part of Miller is my thinking.  
     Anyway, we can all rest well tonight.
     
     More Celis gossip--they are brewing a raspberry beer, which should be 
     out sometime soon.
     
     -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
     
     "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy."
                                        -Groucho Marx
     
     
     Ethan Mason
     Austin, Texas

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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 11:23:42 -0600
From: MHANSEN at ctdmc.pmeh.uiowa.edu
Subject:  E-flasks, carboy handles, Wyeast 3068, Zapap tuns

Hey Gang,

I have been using an Erlenmeyer flask for some time now with no
problems. I heat it with direct flame from a gas stove until boiling and then
remove to let it sit for a minute or two. I cover the  the flask with a paper
towel wetted with alcohol and secure it with a rubber band for the
cooling process so no nasties get sucked in. I then immerse it into a sink
full of VERY hot water and slowly add cold water and then ice or
freezer packs to cool the starter down to room temperature. The whole
process takes about 15 minutes.

Be careful when using lab glassware though. I made the mistake of
believing that all lab glassware is Pyrex/Kimax.  I heated a screw top jar
using the method described above and after 30 seconds on the stove it
shattered sending glass and starter on and under the stove top. What a
pain in the kiester to clean! 

I have those orange carboy handles on each of my carboys (2-5 gallon
and 2-3 gallon) and have had no problems with slippage or breakage or
anything else. I carry full carboys with them.  I find them quite handy.

I agree with Glenn mit Heffe's :-) post about Wyeast 3068 and
fermentation time. My experience with this yeast leads me to believe that
it is slow in the secondary. I brewed an all extract weizen and had a
yeast hurricane in the primary which subsided after about 4 days after
which I racked to secondary. A small kraeusen developed in the
secondary and I bottled after it disappeared (about a week). It seems I
should have left it in the secondary for another week. It is fully
carbonated with very large bubbles after only a week in the bottle. No
gushers though and I have no reason to suspect infection. This is THE
true weizen yeast. I have cloves and bananas in my Weizen! I used 3056
previously for an all-grain Dunkelweizenbock but was disappointed. It
was tasty for an American style dark strong wheat beer (if the category
even exists) but was nothing like Pikantus Dunkelweizenbock which I
was aiming for. It would've been had I used 3068.  

I have made modifications to my Zapap lauter tun similar to the poster
who cut off the bottom of the interior bucket to use as a false bottom. 
However mine is slightly different. The first thing I did was get rid of the
interior bucket. I then bought a professional SS flour sifter that measures
2 inches high by 10 1/2 inches in diameter to use as a false bottom that
fits VERY snugly in the bottom of my 7.5 gallon plastic fermenter that I
use as my lauter tun. I cut the sifter down to an inch with tin snips
because I don't like a lot of foundation water. I fit a plastic bulkhead that
goes through the sifter to which I attach a 3/8" plastic hose long enough
so I don't splash when lautering to the brew pot. I insulate it with a water
heater jacket. It also doubles as my bottling bucket - I just remove the
false bottom. The best part about it was it was CHEAP. The sifter was
$19.99 at Lechter's (a kitchen shop in the Chicago area - no affiliation
blah, blah, blah). I am sure you could get one at a place that sells
restaraunt kitchen equipment. 

Sorry this is so long but hopefully it is useful info.

Brew on my friends!
Mike  (michael-d-hansen at uiowa.edu)


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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 12:35 WET DST
From: gramps at interlog.com (Glenn Anderson)
Subject: Yeast re-use / Yeast FAQ


I've been re-pitching yeast from the primary for the last 10 batches or so 
and have noticed that the yeast starts to lose it's ability to floculate 
after about 3 successive re-pitches. I've noticed this with 1007 and 1056 
and was wondering if this was a mutative quality or just due to the fact 
that my initial pitching volume was larger with each batch. 

There was no detectable (at least on my behalf) change in the finished beer 
with 3 re-pitches other than the length of time it took to clear; the 3rd 
batch generally had to be dosed with PVP to get the yeast out of suspension.

I am considering washing the yeast using Dave's recommended procedure in the 
Yeast FAQ at Sierra, perhaps this will "clear up" my problem.

A quick note on the Yeast FAQ, I've noticed that it is considerably out of 
date, early 1993 I think. I would be glad to update it in both text and HTML 
for the WWW users if I can collect enough detail from all of you about the 
new strains available.

Email information to: GRAMPS at INTERLOG.COM 
Glenn Anderson
Manager, Telecommunications Facilities, BCS
Sun Life Of Canada
GANDE at SLIMS.ATTMAIL.COM or
GRAMPS at INTERLOG.COM


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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 09:39:02 +48000
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>
Subject: Delirium tremons

I was recently in Denmark and saw a sign for what I think was a beer named
Delirium Tremons.  I was so intent on bribing the bartender to let me buy
the sign that what it was advertising was secondary to the situation (I'd
had a few - quite a few).  Anyway he refused, and I never really found out
what the story on the product was.  

Does anyone know what is Delirium Tremons?

Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia at zgi.com



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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 10:31:13 MDT
From: npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM
Subject: Guest brew at home / SS racking canes

My recent visit to the local micro uncovered a convenience I hadn't
considered until recently.  I have a homebrew kegging setup and wanted to
have a "guest" beer to go along with my own.  I could buy a sanke tap and
connect it to my system, but I didn't want to pay the 30 bucks to own one.
I asked the local brewery if they would fill a soda keg for me, and they
said that it was no problem.  He told me to bring it in sanitized and sealed
and they'd fill it up for me for the regular price of a 5 gallon keg (it is
a 5 gallon corny keg).  The disadvantage over renting their keg is that you
have to do the cleaning and sanitizing, but at least you don't have to have
different kegging hardware for the sanke fittings that come on most
commercial beer kegs.

**

I personally like the idea of things that last virtually forever, which is
why I've gone to an insulated keg mash tun, instead of a Gott tower of power.
For the same reason, I've made a SS racking cane, which is indestructible (as
long as normal SS precautions are taken).  It has the same OD as the plastic
canes so the same tubing can be used with it, and I just put the standard
plastic orange tip on it as well.  The advantages with the SS cane are that
you can rack hot liquids without melting, as with the hard plastic canes, and
it can be sanitized completely in the oven.  If it was to be used to rack hot
liquids (I don't use it this way because my brewery design obviates this
step), it could easily be outfitted with a compression fitting to attach it
to copper tubing or the like.  To avoid sanitation issues, I used to throw
out my plastic canes about every year or so.  I don't have to worry about
that anymore.  OTOH, the plastic canes are only about $2.50 retail in my
area, which is much less than the wholesale cost of materials for a SS unit,
so it can't compete with plastic for cost.  Yes, this is a commercial of
sorts, but I'm not making these things for sale, I'm just considering it.
So, would you want one of these, and if so, is it worth, say $15 to you?
FYI, it probably can't be made and sold retail for even as low as $10.  Just
a thought...

Cheers,
Norm npyle at hp7013.ecae.stortek.com

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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 13:34:30 EDT
From: DBLAKE1037 at aol.com
Subject: Raleigh NC Brewpubs

Howdy,


I am sure that there are people out there that get real pissed off when
they see requests like these (I sometimes do, too), but here goes.

I am going to be travelling to Raleigh-Durham, NC next week and would 
like to stop at any prewpubs/good bars if any exist there.  
Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and good brewing,

Don Blake - Wauconda, IL
<dblake1037 at aol.com>


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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 10:53:38 +0800
From: tpm at tcis.com (Tim McNerney)
Subject: Moving hops

Well, it looks like I am going to be moving and I would like to take my
hop garden with me.  Luckily, I will still have access to the garden, so I
do not have to move the hops when I move out.  So what I would like to know
is when is the best time to move the hop plants?  I would assume just before
planting season (say sometime in March).  Also, any additional information
on moving them would be helpful.

Thanks.

- --Tim McNerney
- --tpm at tcis.com

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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 12:37:09 -0500
From: xtalwind at ios.com (Michael Adams)
Subject: Recipe Request: Swan Lager

Please!!! Will some kind soul please E-Mail or post to
rec.crafts.brewing, the recipe for Swan Lager? I drank it on
liberty in Perth and Freemantle W.A., and I'd like more but
can't find it here. Thanks!

Mike


- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Visit America's scenic PRISONS! Ask your representatives why America has
 the world's highest per capita prison population. $10 billion in planned
 expansions, coming soon to a neighborhood near you. End the prohibition.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 11:14:27 PDT
From: tmwang at srv.PacBell.COM (Miu Wang)
Subject: Portland / Oregon Brew/Wine/Food Recommemdation Request

Here's another lazy post :-)

I'll be in Portland, Oregon the last week of October and'd love to hear from
fellow brew/fine/food freaks about good places to sample the local brews/wimes/
food.  In particular, I'd really appreciate tips on where the locals eat and
drink (at least the local connoisseurs :-)

I'll spend most of a week in downtown Portland, but have set aside one day to 
tour the wine country, stopping at Domain Drouhin among other wineries.

Thanks in advance.

       ___
      (o o)
- ---ooO-(_)-Ooo---
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Miu Wang      510-867-6476
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This space provided by permission of the Minister of Disinformation...... :-)

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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 10:58:25 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Racking Off (in public! 8-O  )


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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 13:24
From: KWH at roadnet.ups.com (KWH)
Subject: Time/temp program

Last month, George Fix posted the following time/temperature program for 
highly modified malt:

>        40C (104F) - 30 mins.- 24 lbs. base malt + 6.5 gals. water
         
>        Transition 40 to 60C - add 3 gals. of boiling water - add 
>            adjunct malts at the end as a brake - less than 5 mins.
>            is needed

>         Note - I now feel (with Narziss) that the time spent in the
>            range 45-55C should be keep below 15 mins. if highly
>            modified malt is used.

>         60C (140F) - 30 mins.

>         Transition 60 to 70C - external heat is needed and this can 
>            be done in 15 mins.

>         70C (158F) - 30 mins.

Since going all-grain, I have used a single step infusion mash in the mid 
150's until conversion.  I decided to try this method, and my yield 
increased almost 13% over what I typically get (Thanks, George!!!)  I think 
that yield is usually overemphasized in discussions -- I just try to be 
consistent.  I currently pay less than .60 a pound for grain, and I will 
gladly add a few pounds to save an hour.  Yet, I was pretty damn happy to 
break that 30 ppg barrier.  However, there are certain disadvantages -- 
particularly trying to control temperatures on an electric stove.  I 
overshot both transition temps even though I turned the burner completely 
off before reaching the desired temp.  There must be an easier way to do 
this.  Secondly, it added significant time to my already lengthy brew day.  
The real test will be in about a month when I sample the first bottle.

Kirk Harralson
kwh at roadnet.ups.com


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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 1994 13:44:03 -0600 (CDT)
From: "Jim Ellingson" <jimme at s1.arc.umn.edu>
Subject: 3rd Annual Minnesota Brewfest.

Greetings,

The 3rd Annual Minnesota Brewfest will be held at: 

		Sherlock's Home Brew Pub
		1100 Red Circle Drive 
		612-931-0203  
		Shady Oak Road and Crosstown (Hwy 62)
		Minnetonka, MN (SW suburb of Minneapolis)


Judging Schedule is as follows:

First Round: Saturday, 9/24, 9 a.m., 1:30 p.m.   Landmark Brewery

Second Round:  Firday, 9/30, 6 p.m.              Sherlock's Home

Final Round: Saturday, 10/1, 9 a.m., 5:30 p.m.   Sherlock's Home


Best of Show featuring Micheal Jackson and 2 BJCP judges
         M.C.-ed by Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson. 

               Sunday, 10/2, 3 p.m.              Sherlock's Home


Saturday events will include brief tours of the Summit and James Page
micro-breweries.  Micheal Jackson will be hosting a Scotch Tasting
at Sherlock's on 10/1, although space is limited.  Lovely fall colors 
and the Mall of America (a.k.a. Huge-dale) may be used to convince 
significant others to join you on the trip.

Sunday events include book signing by Jackson (12-2), displays by 
Morris-Hanberry, Rahr Malting and other suppliers and the
very entertaining best of show judging.

Brewing points (pints?) of interest include Sherlock's fine
selection of English styles and Boulder Brewing Company's new
$3M Rock Bottom Brewery at 9th and Hennepin in downtown Minneapolis.
The Landmark Brewery (a.k.a. Minnesota Brewing Company) makes Pig's
Eye pilsener and contract brews a variety of products, most notably
Pete's Wicked Ale/Lager/Red/Shandy/etc.   

This is an AHA sanctioned competition with  240+ entries in 14 categories.  
Interested judges, stewards and apprentices are encouraged to contact 
me or John DeHarnais (612-227-2216) for further information.  Beds for 
brewers are available.  Meals provided (one per flight) for out of 
town judges.

Cheers,
Jim Ellingson,
Minnesota homeBrewers Association

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Date: 20 Sep 94 18:44:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Plastic Carboys/red beer/stuck? ferment

Randy writes:
>homebrewer, left me a half dozen plastic carboys.  Five of these are the
>bottledwater type and one is a Nalgene(tm)-looking thing with a gasketed
>screw-on lid.
>I think the brand is Sciencecraft or something.  All are five gallon, all have
>been covered, and none contain(ed) gasoline, paint, motor oil, BudMilob, Zima,
>etc.
> 
>What are some possible uses for these things and what sort of caveats apply?
>Uses that come to mind are trub settlers, bottling carboys, cooled boiled
>tapwater containers, emergency fermenters, etc.
> 
>Just how "bad" is plastic for brewing?

Well, I personally feel that plastic is fine for brewing as long as you:

1. don't scratch it while cleaning (places for bacteria to hide from
sanitizers), and

2. don't let the finished beer sit around in it too long (because it will
oxidize).

The bottledwater ones are probaby Polycarbonate and the Nalgene-looking
one is probably HDPE.  Note that HDPE has been often reported to be
highly oxygen-permiable, however, according the the Cole-Parmer catalog
plastics section, Polycarbonate is twice as permiable to O2 as HDPE and
Polypropylene is 2.5 times as permiable to O2.  Before you fret too much,
Teflon FEP is 6 times more permiable and PMP (polymethylpentene) is 27
times more permiable than HDPE!  Regarding sanitation, the catalog
recommends that Clorox NOT be used with Polypropylene, but there is no
listing of Polycarbonate in the chemical reactivity chart.  In the
chemical resistance summary, Polycarbonate is not recommended for bases
(like Clorox and, I would, imagine B-Brite/One-Step either which are
basically Sodium Carbonate and Hydrogen Peroxide -- and YES they are both
sanitizers -- the mfgrs are just waiting for govt approval to label them
as such).  Both PC and PP can withstand temperatures of up to 275F, so
sanitizing with boiling water is a definate possibility.  I would imagine
that Iodophor would be acceptable as a sanitizing agent for all these
plastics, but don't overdo it or the plastics might stain.  12.5 ppm
(1/2 oz per 5 gallon) 15 minutes should be enough.  Clean without
scratching immediately after use and they should be okay.  Another
alternative would be to go back to the bottled water company and exchange
them for glass ones (at least one of the companies around here (Sparkling
Spring) let you choose plastic or glass and the deposit for either is
only $6.00).

**********
Bill wants red beer.

I've found that a small amount of Roasted Barley will add a reddish note.

**********
Derek writes:
 I am fairly new to homebrewing and am having a problem with my most recent
 batch.  On 9/11/94 I brewed a honey wheat beer from extract.  After 
 a few days, I was getting no activity from my airlock.  A layer of 
 foam a few inches thick covered the top of the beer.  I decided to

Richard responds:
>You know what it sounds like, to me ... ? A loose airlock. I've seen it a
>dozen times, at least. A tiny, tiny little less-than-perfect seal between
>the glass and the rubber, and there goes your basis for building pressure
>differentials.
 
>I have found that industrial epoxy cement is the best solution. It makes
>an excellent seal, and you can now carry the carboy by the vapor lock, as
>an added bonus. < ahem > Seriously, now ... there are three ways to fix it.
<snip>

I feel that Richard's solutions are overkill.  You will never get a perfect
seal and I would certainly forget about epoxy.  If you are using a plastic
pail fermenter, there is quite a bit more leakage from the big seal around
the top than from where the airlock goes into the lid.  I think that
Derek's "problem" may be that the beer fermented out during the second or
third night when he wasn't looking.  If there is a brown ring around the
inside of the fermenter just above the level of the beer, then you missed
the main (exciting) portion of the ferment.  It's not clear that Derek
didn't see activity, actually, he said that *after a couple of days* there
was no activity.  Depending on the yeast and the size of the starter and
whether or not you shocked the yeast, during these summer temperatures
(i.e. fermentation in the 70's) it's not surpising to see beer ferment
out in 24 hours.  All that's left is to wait for the beer to clear (yeast
to settle) and then you can go to bottling.

Al.

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Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 15:18:35 EDT
From: Kelvin Kapteyn <kelvink at mtu.edu>
Subject: re-bottling question


   I have a competition entry submission question that must have come up some-
where before.  I don't have enough bottles of a certain brew left in the
correct size bottles.  I do have a few in 0.5L bottles.  I am planning to
try to transfer some of the beer to 12oz. bottles for the contest.  BTW, it
was the first place Vienna in the Mich. State Fair comp. (sorry Jeff R. ;-) !)

   The general plan is to borrow a friend's CO2 tank, purge the cold 12oz. 
bottles, then gently pour over the cold (~30F) beer out of the 0.5L bottles
into the 12oz. bottles and cap.  If done gently enough, I think enough
CO2 should stay in solution to maintain carbonation.  Has anyone tried this
or similar?  This is a problem that has come up before with other brewers in
my club.  

Cheers,

 -Kelvin

- -- 
Kelvin  Kapteyn         (kelvink at mtu.edu)

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1532, 09/21/94