FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Ulick's Contest Whine (Martin Lodahl)
  Yeast FAQ Facts (Patrick Weix)
  Moving Hops (COYOTE)
  Re: Liquid Yeast Question... (Al Gaspar)
  Hops in starters; autoclaving ("Seth L. Betaharon")
  Anonymity in Judging (Robert H. Reed)
  Keg Carbonation Problem (John Francisco)
  Anal Bottle Requirements ("Norman Dickenson")
  Beer Pigs (Robin Hanson)
  Re: anal requirement (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Steam (tm) beer (fwd) (Jim Busch)
  stuff (Tim Fahrner)
  Contest Announcement:  Brews Bros.' Novembeerfest (Darryl Richman)
  demerara sugar (James Taft)
  diacetyl / flocculation problems (Rich Larsen)
  Re: Chinook Hops (KevWatts)
  Unusual accident (McKee Smith)
  Re: Kegging (Morten Hansen)
  Re: kegging (Morten Hansen)
  Re: Carboy carriers (Mark A. Stevens)
  Brown malt / HopTech / Vienna malt (guyruth)
  Re: kegging .... (Dave Beedle)
  PVC Kettles (Glenn Anderson)
  bottles for competitions (Montgomery_John)
  IBU Calulations (Rich Larsen)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 09:03:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: malodah at pbgueuze.scrm2700.PacBell.COM (Martin Lodahl)
Subject: Ulick's Contest Whine

In HOMEBREW Digest #1532, Ulick Stafford chose to be offensive
about a very simple and practical matter:

> Why to competition entry forms always have this this idiotic anal rule?
>
> Each entry must consist of three plain green or brown bottles, 
> 10 to 14 oz.

Two factors, there.  The consistency in size is an ease-of-handling
issue.  If you have unlimited coldroom space and don't need to transport
the beers at any time during the contest, and very few entries, great, 
take any bottle you want.  But that's almost never the case.  Ever try
to stack mixed cases of 12, 16 and 22-oz bottles?  The color issue is an
attempt to encourage the brewer not to self-destruct, as there
are many judges who will taste skunkiness in a beer poured from
a clear bottle, whether it's there or not.  Judges are human.  Green
bottles too can trigger this reaction, but not as reliably.  It's sort
of like the "automatic rough" effect most pilots experience in flying
over water.

>	...  Each entry must be accompanied by a competition 
> entry form and proper payment.

You have a problem with that?

>		...  Entries must be identified with 
> a competition label secured with a rubber band.

Handling again.  If they're banded they're reasonably secure, yet
the labels can be removed quickly and easily once the numbered
stickers have been applied to the label and to the bottle.  If the
label were to be taped or glued it would take much longer to handle
that part of it, and the bottle would arrive before the judges looking
crappy, sending the subliminal message that the brewer is careless
and takes no pride in his beer.

>		...  Entries should 
> not have raised glass or silk screened marks.  Marks on bottle 
> caps should be blackened out.
>
> What is wrong with clear bottles, big bottles, Bass bottles, overrun caps?

Anonymity, pure and simple.  The bottle issue has been argued endlessly,
as it's hard to pin down the issue of at what point a bottle becomes
readily identifiable.  In my part of the country, for example, Anchor
bottles are as common as mud and are very frequently used for 
competitions, because their distinctive shape (as identifiable as
any raised lettering ever could be) makes a smooth pour easier, and
can sometimes be worth a point or two.  Plus, there are many judges who, 
knowing this, will assume that a brewer using an Anchor bottle knows
what he's doing.  At the highest levels it's a subtle game between
contestant and judge.  But Bass bottles, on the other hand, are not
nearly as common, so if you happen to know that So_And_So uses only
Bass bottles ...  The cap issue is more related to the Nationals.
Years ago, when all entries to the Nationals were judged at Boulder,
there was a very strong suspicion that the playing field wasn't
altogether level.  This, by the way, was one of the reasons for 
the strong push to decentralize the Nationals.  Overrun caps are
distinctive, and some people in the industry can tell you about odd
lots that are available only in certain regions, so an overrun cap can,
with a reasonable degree of probability, tell some judges where that
beer came from.  Ergo the tabu.

> While it is understandable that the nationals have standards to lend an aura,
> this is hardly the case for a competition in Podunk, NY, or whereever.  And

As you've just heard, "lending an aura" has nothing to do with why the
standards were adopted.  Every one of them evolved for practical reasons.
Many contests adopt the same rules as the Nationals in the interests of
uniformity, and this is a very good thing for brewers who enter a lot
of contests, as they don't need to make any special arrangements for
one particular contest.

> I know the judges are just as anal, because one once made a big stink about
> my 'clear violation' sending a bottle with raised lettering.  Yet another 
> reasaon not to pay people to drink my beer.

Huh?  You violate the rules of a contest, the judges choose to enforce them,
and now you complain??  Think about that for a minute ...

	- Martin

= Martin Lodahl     Systems Analyst, Capacity Planning      Pacific*Bell =
= malodah at pacbell.com      Sacramento, CA USA	            916.972.4821 =
=    If it's good for ancient Druids runnin' nekkid through the wuids,   =
=  Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  (Unk.)   =

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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 09:20:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Patrick Weix <weix at netcom.com>
Subject: Yeast FAQ Facts

Hi All:
It is time once again to update the Yeast Faq. I would like to solicit in 
advance for information on the following:
	1. New yeast strains and good/bad experiences with recently	 
	introduced ones.
	2. Time for some actual FAQs in the FAQ.
		a. Did anyone save good replies to the question: Are 
		yeast animals? It would save me having to write my own. 
		b. Would experienced brewers care to send me their advice on
		the question: ``It has been 24 hrs, and I have no 
		krausen--Help me!''. This has been cropping up a lot lately.
		Flowcharts and checklists appreciated.
	3. Anything else?
As usual, I have my own ideas about the above, and I will try to edit and 
distill the replies. All quoted material will be credited. (If you notice 
an omission to this in the FAQ, just tell me.) Please send replies to me 
at weix at netcom.com. Include the word ``yeast'' in your Subject line.

The new FAQ will have an improved layout, and it will be available in
html and Postscript in addition to the plain text.

Thanks,

Patrick

  "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away."
 					Tom Waits

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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 10:37:22 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Moving Hops

Tim McNerney asked about:   Moving hops

Hola.  Been there, done that.

If you look back at last springs digests (early summer) you will see
a string of posts by me on exactly that subject.  

1.  Rooting Cuttings
As the new shoots began to emerge I snipped a number and rooted them.       
Clip a shoot close to the ground (where the stem turns from green to pale,
or kinda reddish- underground is better) make a diagonal cut just below a
node. Clip off the lower leaves (any that would be in water).
Place out of direct sun in water- a  rootone dip can be of help

        vermiculite, peat moss, potting soil, sand.

Expect some delay before the vine starts to lengthen.  Seems like
they need to establish roots first, then grow vine.

I tried directly plopping cuttings into the above dirt mix with about
a 50% success.  I found rooting in water to be more reliable.

2.  Rhizomes

If the hops are more than one year old (or even if not) you should be able
to dig down and find some lateral roots with nodes on them.  If you CAREFULLY
excavate around the rhizome and cut a section with bud shoots you can plant
it directly in the ground, or first in a pot to get it going, then transfer.

Now if you don't intend to leave anything behind (I did- brewers in the house!)
then just dig up the whole rhizome mass- plan on it having extended a number
of feet from the initial vine site.  Be sure to keep it moist- i.e., put it
in a pot of soil/peat moss.  But don't SOAK it- you don't want it to rot.

It seems that the best time to dig rhizomes is after shoots start to emerge.
If you pull up a section of root without shoot nodes on it, it probably 
won't grow.  Near the base of the previous plant is the most likely place to 
find new shoots emerging.   If you see a shoot coming up some distance
from the previous stem it is an excellent candidate for propogation.

3.  New rhizomes.

Hey why not!  Take some of what you had, but start some new ones too.
At ~$2-3/rhizome it's not a big investment.  You might enjoy having more
around.  Just be sure to plant different varieties far enough apart that
they won't tangle shoots and roots.  I even put boards a foot down between
my varieties to ensure no crossovers.

If you have friends with hops- borrow a cutting from them. Most likely they
will have more shoots than they need, and will be cutting back a bunch
anyway.

I've ordered rhizomes from freshhops in oregon and have been quite pleased.
Last year I ordered three new varieties and started them in 2 gal pots.
After several transplantings to bigger pots (and longer sticks!) I finally
had the new garden prepped for planting.  THEN I erected my poles and pulleys.


*  As for trellis growing of hops:  You might plan on one vine for each 
support pole, and if they get out of hand- hell, cut them back!
At the Hostel in Jackson hole (by the tram) I saw a leanto made from 
flats that was about belly high with hops climbing all over. Looked happy.

I plan to put up arbors and a trellis area for a shaded sitting spot next
year (funds and wife allowing :) with hops a-climbin all over them!
I'm planning to use 10 ft poles, sunk about 2ft in for the corners of
the trellis, and a few logs overhead for the climbers.  I want to be able
to walk underneath w/o them grabbing my face.  Sure- I'll train them- at
least as good as my dogs! (FWIW!!!)

Don't hesitate to plan on horizontal hops.  You don't NEED a 20ft pole
and pulleys.  My old place had a couple hooks on the eaves, and simply
ropes dropped down for the vines to climb.  Simple-yet functional.
Just be sure to pick a sunny spot, and supplement the soil.

* Also as for the Aureus variety- don't have my books handy, but I do know
there is an ornamental (japanese?) variety of hops, not grown for cones
to make beer, but just as a nice pretty vine.  So check on it.
    Also- again- spring is really the time to start or propogate hops.
Did anyone ever have success taking fall/summer starts and growing them
inside over the winter for a spring transplant out? 
I know it had been mentioned but never heard any success stories.

\-/-\  Hopping along with the Coyote- Aka John Wyllie SLK6P at cc.usu.edu \-/-\

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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 11:51:13 CDT
From: Al Gaspar <gaspar at STL-17SIMA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re: Liquid Yeast Question... 


Bob Bessette <bessette at uicc.com> writes:
> I have another issue which is bothering me a bit. I have been using liquid 
> yeast now for the last 4 batches but I never get a real active fermentation. 
> Recently I read that I should always use a starter with liquid yeast. I 
> haven't done this yet. Should I be doing it and what is the best method of 
> doing a starter? BTW, the beer comes out great but maybe it could be better...
> Please email me directly...

I can't seem to reach Bob directly, so I'm sending this to the
homebrew digest...

    I have been contemplating the same question.  I have had fairly
active fermentations, but they have taken longer than I would like to
start.  From what I have read doing a starter would solve this
problem.  I am a little fuzzy on technique though (I have looked at
the FAQ, Pappazian, and Miller):

    It seems that one should use a half gallon, sterilized
    container with an airlock (or perhaps a large beer bottle fitted
    with an airlock).  Make up a weak wort (what I read
    indicated about three tablespoons of dry malt extract for
    a quart, plus, perhaps, a 1/2 teaspoon of yeast nutrient).
    Boil it, cool it, add it to the container (you don't need
    more than 16 oz to 22 oz, it would seem), add in your
    liquid yeast, cap it with a stopper and airlock, and let it
    ferment.  It sounded like about three days would produce enough
    yeast to pitch in a five gallon batch.

Now this is where I get confused.  A couple of places indicated that
you just poured this whole mixture into your batch at the end of that 
short fermentation period.  However, Dave Miller's book says that you
should pour off the wort and just use the yeast "dregs" at the bottom
of the container.

    I was just going to ask Bob to let me know what he heard, but since
I can't reach him, I would appreciate some clarification.  I
will be happy to do a summary for inclusion in the FAQ, if folks
are interested. Thanks much.

Cheers--

Al

- -- 
Al Gaspar       <gaspar at stl-17sima.army.mil>
USAMC SIMA, ATTN:  AMXSI-TTC, 1222 Spruce St., St. Louis, MO  63103-2834
COMMERCIAL:  (314) 331-4354	AUTOVON:  555-4354
relay1.uu.net!stl-17sima.army.mil!gaspar

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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 13:40:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Seth L. Betaharon" <sethb at wam.umd.edu>
Subject: Hops in starters; autoclaving

I recently began making starter cultures for my brews and have a few
questions.  I have seen starter culture recipes in several places that
call for the addition of hops, while others that I have seen say just to
use malt extract, yeast nutrient, and water.  Aside from serving as a
preservative, is there any reason to add hops?  I have access to an
autoclave, so I'm pretty sure that my starter cultures will be sterile, 
making the use of a preservative unnecessary. 

Also, does it matter what kind of malt extract I use:  light, medium, or 
dark?

Finally, I have tried several times to make malt extract agar to culture
yeast on.  I start by combining the agar, distilled water, and malt
extract and bringing them to a boil.  Then, I pour the solution into test
tubes and autoclave for 15 minutes.  When I remove the tubes, there is a
sediment in the tubes that will not dissolve with shaking.  Is this a
normal result of autoclaving malt extract, or am I doing something wrong? 
When I autoclave my starter cultures, will I have this problem then?  If
so, will this affect the performance of my starters? 

Thanks in advance,

Seth L. Betaharon

sethb at wam.umd.edu


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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 09:15:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robert H. Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: Anonymity in Judging

Ulick writes:

>What is wrong with clear bottles, big bottles, Bass bottles, overrun caps?
>While it is understandable that the nationals have standards to lend an aura,
>this is hardly the case for a competition in Podunk, NY, or whereever.  And

The rules and regulations are in place to maximize the anonymity of entries.
Most judges may be relied upon to be impartial, but some judges may score a 
beer differently if they know who brewed it.  Rules are therefore in place to
preclude this situation, i.e. a judge recognizing your entry because you use
Nehi caps, Bass bottles, etc.  I think the banning of large bottles - 22oz
and champagne fifths is to prevent logistical problems in storage and 
transportation.  Besides, with the stewards getting the leftovers of each 
22oz bottle, we'd never complete a judging session... Just kiddin'.     

> I know the judges are just as anal, because one once made a big stink about
> my 'clear violation' sending a bottle with raised lettering.  Yet another 
> reasaon not to pay people to drink my beer.

I believe the brown bottle only rule is to minimize the chance of your beer
becoming light-struck during initial handling, storage, etc.                   

In most instances the *sponsoring club* is the group who makes money off of
a competition.  Clubs do also *lose* money on competitions, especially if
the prizes are generous or the number of entries unexpectedly low.  Judges
only "payment" for their service is typically lunch.  Many judges travel
significant distances to make their services available.  Clearly, profit
is not the motive for judging beer.

 -Rob Reed

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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 11:04:51 -0700 (MST)
From: John Francisco <FRANCISCO at osmo.CCIT.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Keg Carbonation Problem

>From: abaucom at fester.swales.com
>Subject: kegging...
>
>I've tapped my first corny keg (filled with Weizen) and it is flat.  Initially
>the beer comes out looking carbonated but It is just an agitation foam because
>when the head dies down, the beer is flat.
>
>Question:  What CO2 pressure/time-length is needed to artificially carbonate
>5 gallons O'beer?
>
>(the keg is refrigerated, the CO2 is not, and the beer was primed with ~1 cup
> malt extract for several weeks and had pressure when I initially tapped it)

Your problem can be easily solved if you just remove the keg from the 
fridge and allow the keg to sit at room temperature for at least two 
weeks. I usually allow three weeks for total carbonation before it 
goes on tap in the fridge.


John "Cisco" Francisco
Senior Applications Systems Analyst
University of Arizona
Tucson, Arizona
602-621-6727

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Date: 21 Sep 1994 11:50:44 U
From: "Norman Dickenson" <norman.dickenson at Sonoma.EDU>
Subject: Anal Bottle Requirements

                       Subject:                               Time:10:43 AM
  OFFICE MEMO          Anal Bottle Requirements               Date:9/21/94
Mr. Ulick states
<What is wrong with clear bottles, big bottles, Bass bottles, overrun caps?
While it is understandable that the nationals have standards to lend an aura,
this is hardly the case for a competition in Podunk, NY, or whereever.  And
I know the judges are just as anal, because one once made a big stink about
my 'clear violation' sending a bottle with raised lettering.  Yet another 
reasaon not to pay people to drink my beer.>

As irksome as it feels to be regulated by rules in the rebellious world
of self expressive home brewing, there is a legitimate and reasonable 
rationale for bottle standards in homebrew competitions.

First and foremost is the need for absolute and scrupulous blind tasting
by the the judges.  To assure anonymity (so that a judge doesn't spot 
his buddy's  or his enemy's unique bottle), standards are set to *minimize*
this possibility.   How would you like paying money to be in a competition
only to find out even one judge was crooked?  I bet you'd never enter 
that competition again.  And, yes, dispite all of our pure and noble ideals,
a couple of bad apples can spoil the barrel.

Second, having been the organizer of several fairly large competitions,
I find that the logistical handling and storage of oversized bottles is
irksome and problematic for a staff of *volunteer* workers.  It is all
so much easier if all the bottles will fit inside stackable bottle cases.
Yes, you paid your money, but believe me, NO ONE gets paid any money
in a competition.  It's a good event that can even break even on it's
expenses (AHA National$ excluded)

I personally do have problems with prohibiting clear bottles.  This is
a stupid rule.  If green bottles are accepted, then so too should clear ones
be accepted.  Even more stupid, though is the person who sends homebrew to
a competition in a clear bottle with no knowledge of the storage 
conditions (flame shields up!).  Ferchristsake, if ya wanna win, why
subject your beer to deteriorating conditions.

The judge who raised a stink about your bottle with embossed letters
was clearly out of line.  It is not the purvue of a judge to make value
laden comments about this, but rather to simply draw to the attention of the
organizer the perceived rule infraction.  It is the job of the Organizer to
determine that a violation occurred and discreetly
disquality the beer from receiving an award while insuring that the
entrant still receives his/her scoresheets with a notation about the
disqualification.  Yes, rules are rules, but we also need to help each other.
Otherwise, why have competitons?

 -norman-



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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 94 13:21:32 -0600
From: rhanson at nmsu.edu (Robin Hanson)
Subject: Beer Pigs

I have seen advertisments recently for a "beer Pig", has anyone out there
used one of these? I recently moved across country and had to leave my
bottles behind, so I am now looking for a cheap alternative to bottles. Any
Ideas?

Robin Hanson

Rhanson at nmsu.edu


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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 94 13:03:43 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: anal requirement

>>>>> "Ulick" == Ulick Stafford <ulick at ulix.rad.nd.edu> writes:

Ulick> Why to competition entry forms always have this this idiotic
Ulick> anal rule?  Each entry must consist of three plain green or
Ulick> brown bottles, 10 to 14 oz.  Each entry must be accompanied by
Ulick> a competition entry form and proper payment.  Entries must be
Ulick> identified with a competition label secured with a rubber band.
Ulick> Entries should not have raised glass or silk screened marks.
Ulick> Marks on bottle caps should be blackened out.

If all the bottles are exactly the same, then there is no way to
cheat.  For example, I know a judge and at our homebrew club meeting,
I ask him his opinion of a beer before entering it in competition.  He
sees me pour it from a particularly recognizable bottle.  He also
happens to be a judge in the category I enter and notices the steward
pour from that same kind of bottle.  While this may be farfetched, it
rules out any kind of unfairness in judging.

Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 17:18:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Steam (tm) beer (fwd)

   From:  Kevin Kane                                 
          KANE                                     

Subject:  Steam (tm) beer

I've noticed that anyone posting, describing, brewing, etc, anything 
about "steam beer" will religiously note that this has been trademarked by 
Anchor brewing.  Papazian gives a brief explanation about it in his book.

	Here's my problem:  I was recently reading the novel _McTeague_ by 
Norton and ran across a paragraph where the doomed hero enjoys a pitcher of 
steam beer with his friend, Marcus.  In light of some of the bandwidth on 
trademarks like "Boston Ale", etc., how does this fit in with Anchor's fine 
brew? What I'd like is a little more historical information, if possible.By 
the way, the novel takes place in San Francisco.

Private replies OK, because my mailer makes remote addresses too long 
for the HBD manager.

	Kevin Kane   kane at ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu

	Cheers!
			KMK

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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 17:35:45 -0500
From: fahrner at milbrandt.wustl.edu (Tim Fahrner)
Subject: stuff

mike,

When we gonna check out the scrap yard again? Give me a call when you have a
free lunch hour.

Tim


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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 94 19:04:01 PDT
From: Darryl Richman <darrylri at microsoft.com>
Subject: Contest Announcement:  Brews Bros.' Novembeerfest

Here is a solicitation for the Brews Bros. annual competition.

		--Darryl Richman

- ---------------
                          Competition Announcement

  The Brews  Brothers Malting,  Mashing, Sparging,  Hopping, Barming,  and
  Drinking  Society  of  Greater  Seattle  is  holding  the  Third  Annual
  NOVEMBEERFEST regional homebrew competition on November 5, 1994.

                            Competition Sponsors

  Brewer's Warehouse, Liberty Malt Supply, Deschutes Brewing, Widmer Brew-
  ing Co,  The Cellar,  Buckerfield's Brewery,  Roslyn  Brewing Co.,  Hood
  River Brewing Co., McMenamin's Brewpubs LTD.,  Coeur D'Alene Brewing Co,
  Hopunion USA, Evergreen Brewing Supply, Fromm,  Mayer-Bass Inc., John I.
  Haas, Inc., Fish Brewing Co., Alaskan Brewing and Bottling Co, Bay Front
  Brewery & Public  House, Rogue  Ale Brewery,  Onalaska Brewing  Co, Ana-
  cortes Brewhouse, West Seattle Homebrew Supply,  and Larry's Homebrewing
  Supply.
                                   Prizes

  Best in show wins a magnificent etched and engraved 1 liter stein with
  the winner's name engraved on it.  Winners of the five major categories
  of Ale, Lager, Mixed, Wheat, and Cider/Sake receive a $50 gift certifi-
  cate from a sponsoring homebrew supplier.  Second round winners will win
  a merchandise prize such as a shirt, hat, presentation glass, poster, etc.
  from one of our sponsors.

                                Contest Rules

                               Qualifications

  This is a northwest regional competition, open to amateur brewers living
  in Alaska, British Columbia, Washington, Idaho, Oregon, and Montana.

  Only amateur brewers are eligible for  this contest. If you  make a buck
  making beer, you aren't an amateur. Enter as many beers  as you want. We
  don't care. Just include three bottles  with labels, $5 per  entry and a
  recipe form. We'll  judge it  on its merits  against the  recognized AHA
  standards.

  Bottles should be standard, generic  12 - 14 oz  brown bottles.  Bottles
  should be free of any identifying marks. Bottle caps should be inked out
  with an opaque black  marker or paint. While  we will score any  beer in
  any reasonable container, only  the aforementioned generic  bottles will
  be considered for prizes.

  Attach a registration slip to each bottle with a rubber band. Do not use
  tape or glue! This slip should list your name,  address, phone, club af-
  filiation, beer style, and  subclass. Be sure to give  your beer a name!
  In the  event you  place in  a category,  your beer's  name will  appear
  prominently on  your  award.  If  you  don't  name  it,  we'll  call  it
  "Nameless Wonder". Be creative!

  Each entry must be accompanied by  a suitable recipe. By  "suitable" we
  mean that someone reading it could have a reasonable chance of reproduc-
  ing your fine beer. Said recipe becomes the property of the Brews Broth-
  ers and we may reserve the right to publish it in our newsletter.

  There are two entry deadlines. Normal entries must  be received  by 5:00
  P.M. Monday, October 31. Brewers that wait until the  last minute or who
  wish to deliver their beers by  hand may do so for an  additional $5 fee
  per entry. The final  absolute deadline for  these late entries  is 7:00
  P.M. November 4. No  entries will be accepted  the day of  judging under
  any circumstance. Those wishing to deliver beers the night before should
  call us ahead of time.  We may be able  to arrange a bed  for the night.
  Entries should be shipped to Jim Hinken - 24211 4th  Place W - Bothell,
  WA 98021

  All entries, their rubber bands  and boxes become property  of the Brews
  Brothers. If you wish your carton returned to you, enclose an additional
  $10 handling fee along  with the return  postage. Also indicate  if your
  return address is a business or home.

  Our statistical program tracks  one brewer per  entry. If more  than two
  people collaborated on the beer,  name a primary brewer.  Use only first
  and last name,  no middle initial  or name please.  The name  you submit
  will appear on any awards or correspondence from us. If you collaborated
  on the beer and  win an award, contact  us. We may be  able to duplicate
  the prizes at your expense.

  We are using the same class  designation codes used at  the AHA national
  competition (available on-line as  STYLES.AHA [on CompuServe;  I can get
  you a copy if need be --Darryl]). Please ensure  that your
  beer is judged  in the appropriate  style by using  these codes.  If all
  else fails, describe your  style as fully as  possible and we'll  try to
  guess the correct style.

  If we don't receive enough of  your beer's style to seat  a judge panel,
  we reserve the right to combine similar categories. Your beer will still
  be judged according to the proper style. Our large  pool of judges guar-
  antees that your  beer will be  fairly judged in  any event.  The senior
  judge on each panel will decide  which entries pass on  to second round.
  For example, suppose we  have to combine Smoked  beer with Herb  beer to
  seat a panel.  A high  scoring pepper  beer and  a high  scoring Bamburg
  Rauchbier may both pass to the second round.

  If you can live  with these rules, we  guarantee you the  most complete,
  accurate, fair, and helpful score sheets and  statistics you've ever re-
  ceived from any competition, bar none!

  If you would like us to send you an entry packet  with official rules (a
  fancy copy of this file), bottle tags, recipe  forms, style guides, sam-
  ple statistical data, and prize samples, contact me with your snail-mail
  address at: Rob Nelson, 70206,1316 or by Internet at
  70206.1316 at compuserve.com
 

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Date: 21 Sep 94 22:27:37 EDT
From: James Taft <74401.1560 at compuserve.com>
Subject: demerara sugar

I noticed a number of comments about this sugar today.  If it's true that it's a
"true" brown sugar made by simply dehydrating cane juice, there is a product
available in some health food stores called Sucanat which may be similar.  I
have the name of the importer somewhere if anyone's interested and can't find it
locally.

Jim Taft
74401.1560 at compuserve.com


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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 1994 13:05:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: Rich Larsen <rlarsen at free.org>
Subject: diacetyl / flocculation problems 


>From: David Draper <David.Draper at mq.edu.au> writes:

>Dear Friends, I am at the end of a recent batch of Steam(tm) beer, and have
>encountered something odd.  Three of my last bottles have an overwhelming
>diacetyl note--it tastes like buttered popcorn.  All the rest of the bottles
>tasted fine--in fact, this is one of the (if not THE) best beers I have made.
>Of the final four bottles, only one did not have this (I am drinking it as I
>write this).

<< snip >>

>An important point here is that I have been steadily
>depleting this batch and have not encountered this flavor until just a couple
>days ago, and I don't drink the bottles in the order they were filled!  I am
>perfectly willing to accept that there was some problem in the
>bottle-cleansing stage, but what could cause such an intense diacetyl flavor
>to develop after about 40 days in the bottle (assuming that the onset was
>sudden)?

You may have hit the nail on the head here.  You may be experiencing a
localized infection in the bottles.  Some bacteria, wild yeasts and
respiratory deficient yeast will produce diacetyl.

*********************
>From: gramps at interlog.com (Glenn Anderson) writes :

>I've been re-pitching yeast from the primary for the last 10 batches or so
>and have noticed that the yeast starts to lose it's ability to floculate
>after about 3 successive re-pitches. I've noticed this with 1007 and 1056
>and was wondering if this was a mutative quality or just due to the fact
>that my initial pitching volume was larger with each batch.

Where are you harvesting the yeast?  If you are saving the sediment from
the primary, I would expect the opposite to happen, I.E.  You get a high
flocculator.  It is possible that the yeast has mutated, but that usually
results in off flavors as well.

>the 3rd batch generally had to be dosed with PVP to get the yeast out
>of suspension.

PVP removes protiens that cause chill haze.  Yeast can be removed with
gelatin or insinglass.

>I am considering washing the yeast using Dave's recommended procedure in the
>Yeast FAQ at Sierra, perhaps this will "clear up" my problem.

The procedures for washing yeast in the FAQ will only isolate the living
healthy yeast.  If you have a wild yeast or a bacteria, this procedure
won't do much for you.  An acid wash of yeast will knock out bacteria
but won't kill the wild yeasts.

=> Rich  (rlarsen at squeaky.free.org)
_______________________________________________________________________
Rich Larsen (708) 388-3514 * Also on HomeBrew University (708) 705-7263
    "I never drink... wine"  Bela Lugosi as Dracula
_______________________________________________________________________

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Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 00:51:11 EDT
From: KevWatts at aol.com
Subject: Re: Chinook Hops

Roger Asks:

>anybody out there know of any brewery that uses chinook and/or
willamette hops in their beer?

I know that James Page in Minneapolis uses Chinook for bittering. That's the
only definite use I know of. Their beers are quite good, IMHO :)

Kevin/Chicago




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Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 02:12:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: McKee Smith <MCKSMI at delphi.com>
Subject: Unusual accident

Prosit!

   I had an unusual accident last night while brewing.  I always 
keep a bucket of sanitizing solution handy while brewing.  I try to 
be careful without being fanatical about sanitation.  I had 
carefully disassembled my turkey baster which I use to get my 
sample for OG and infection testing.  I soaked both the tube and 
the cap in sanitizer, then rinsed.

   Unfortunately, I was not so careful RE-assembling the baster.  
As you've probably already guessed by now, I'm fermenting a 
batch with the tube from a turkey baster floating in my 7 gal. 
carboy!  Everything I could think of to get the thing out would have 
done more potential damage to the beer than leaving the baster 
inside.  

   At least I know the thing is clean!

McKee Smith                          Phone:        (214) 721-1558
Irving, Texas, USA                   EMail:     Mcksmi at Delphi.com
                                     Compuserv:        71660,2747



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Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 08:24:50 +0200
From: Morten Hansen <mhan at control.auc.dk>
Subject: Re: Kegging

 -I've tapped my first corny keg (filled with Weizen) and it is flat. Initially
 -the beer comes out looking carbonated but It is just an agitation foam because
 -when the head dies down, the beer is flat.
 -Question:  What CO2 pressure/time-length is needed to artificially carbonate
 -5 gallons O'beer?

 -(the keg is refrigerated, the CO2 is not, and the beer was primed with ~1 cup
 -malt extract for several weeks and had pressure when I initially tapped it)
 -TIA, 
 -Andrew
 -PS...the beer tastes great...just flat...
 
I use 5 gallon Cornelius kegs for my lager/pilsner and usually
 I force carbondioxide in to my beer with 0.7 - 1.4 atm. in about a week.
 Some times I use 3 atm. and then lover the pressur after a week or so.
 The pressure depends on the beer. Usually a darker more porterlike beer
 need higher pressur than lighter types. Besides that it is my opinion 
 that beer is sensitive to changes in temp. and pressure. So if I were
 you, I would turn up the pressure and wait for a week or so.

Hope you work it out, flat beer is no fun,

Morten Hansen
 Denmark

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Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 09:42:54 +0200
From: Morten Hansen <mhan at control.auc.dk>
Subject: Re: kegging

 -I've tapped my first corny keg (filled with Weizen) and it is flat.  Initially
 -the beer comes out looking carbonated but It is just an agitation foam because
 -when the head dies down, the beer is flat.

 -Question:  What CO2 pressure/time-length is needed to artificially carbonate
 -5 gallons O'beer?

 -(the keg is refrigerated, the CO2 is not, and the beer was primed with ~1 cup
 -malt extract for several weeks and had pressure when I initially tapped it)

 -TIA, 
 -Andrew

 -PS...the beer tastes great...just flat...

I use 5 galon Cornelius Kegs, and always force CO2 into my beer.
Usually I add 2-3 atm of pressure and wait for aprox. 1 week without 
maintaining the pressure. After that I keep the pressure at about 0.7 - 
1.4 atm, depending on the beer type. Darker, stronger beer usually needs
more pressure to keep `fresh` that lighter types.

It is also my opinion that homebrew is very sensitive to changes in
temp. and pressure. So if I were you, I would turn up the pressure to ?
and wait for 1 week or so. 

PS: all my beer style are lager/pilsner. I`m dont sure that my
experiences goes for ales as well.

Hope you manager, flat beer`s no fun

Morten Hansen
  Denmark

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Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 08:46:04 EDT
From: Mark A. Stevens <stevens at stsci.edu>
Subject: Re: Carboy carriers


Instead of using handles as most of the people posting discussions
of carboy carriers seem to be using, why not use a simple box on
wheels??

One of the members in our local homebrew club builds small boxes
about the size of a milk crate out of wood and then attaches
those caster wheels typically used on small pieces of furniture.
He puts the carboy in it when empty, fills it up, then wheels
it to where ever he wants it. Easy and no worries about lifting
the carboy or having the neck break.

This won't, of course, do the trick for you if you wanted to move
the carboys up and down steps.

Cheers!
- ---Mark Stevens
   stevens at stsci.edu


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Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 07:07:05 EST
From: guyruth at abq-ros.com
Subject: Brown malt / HopTech / Vienna malt


I just kegged a brown ale I made using British Brown malt I purchased
>from Williams.  My wife says it has a pronounced nutty flavor.  I guess
I'd have to say I'm used to the taste of chocolate malt in my brown
ales, but I think I could get used to a roasty / nutty character without
the cloying roasted flavor.

A couple of months ago I repeated my Navajo Nuance made with 2 row and
40% yellow corn and 5% blue corn.  I split the 10 gallon batch and put
some HopTech peach extract (approx. 4 oz) in one.  The peach extract
imparted a delicate peach nose and flavor that is quite satisfying.  I
tried adding drops of cherry extract directly in the bottle on another
batch and judges thought they were eating maraschino cherries.  I tested
the extract in a 12oz sample as the directions state, but maybe the
effect in the bottle is more intense than it is in the keg.

Last spring I stumbled onto a Vienna recipe using 100% Vienna malt with
a touch of Belgian Biscuit for flavor and Black Patent for color.  As my
brewing buddy said it was the best beer that has ever graced his
refrigerator.  However, I bottled some for competition from the keg and
almost all bottles had MAJOR DMS problems.  I used Briess Vienna malt.
Maybe I chilled the wort to quickly and didn't allow the trub to settle
in the kettle prior chilling the wort.  One of the judges suggested I
use some Munich malt in place of the Vienna malt.  Anyone have any other
suggestions on why the kegged version did not exhibit DMS whereas it did
in the bottle?

Guy (guyruth at abq-ros.com)

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Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 08:28:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: dbeedle at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Dave Beedle)
Subject: Re: kegging ....

> Andrew W. Baucom writes:
>
> >Question:  What CO2 pressure/time-length is needed to artificially carbonate
> >5 gallons O'beer?
> >
> >(the keg is refrigerated, the CO2 is not, and the beer was primed with ~1 cup
> > malt extract for several weeks and had pressure when I initially tapped it)
> >PS...the beer tastes great...just flat...

   I corbonate over a period of three days using a CO2 chart which tracks the
PSI to use at what temperature depending on how many volumes oc CO2 you wnat in
your brew.  I think the chart is on the sierra archives.  Anyway, I rack from
the carboy to the keg, preasureise to make a seal and refidgerate to about 40F.
(Acutally I now put the carboy in the fridge before hand to help clarify it so
for me, it's already cold when it's racked to the keg).  Once the brew is cold
release any preasure (if any but check to make sure) then put your CO2 on the
OUT side of the keg.  Crank up the CO2 to the preasure you want (I usually
wind up at about 13-14 PSI) and shake for about three minutes.  Repeat once a
day for three days and you have carbonated brew.  I like a relitively low
carbonation level ala english ales so if you want more carbonation use more
preasure.

TTFN
- --
  Dave Beedle  - Unix Support Manager - dbeedle at ilstu.edu -  Network Services
       http://www.ilstu.edu/~dbeedle/               Illinois State University
 "It is better to think of church in the ale-house than      136A Julian Hall
  to think of the ale-house in church." - Martin Luther     Normal, IL  61761

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Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 09:51 WET DST
From: gramps at interlog.com (Glenn Anderson)
Subject: PVC Kettles


Yesterday, Don sez:

>Date: Tue, 20 Sep 94 23:12:03 EDT
>From: DONBREW at aol.com
>Subject: temperature controller

 ...cut....
>      Am I the only one out here that has thought to boil in a PVC bucket
>with a water heater element installed?  I use a cut off 15 gallon 1.8 mm.
>drum, cut off the top, install boiler drain,  screw a 4500 W low density
>element in the side, control the heater with an electric stove surface burner
>"infinite control".  Works good for me. 
 .....cut....

I've been using a cut-off Sankey keg exactly like this for about 4 years, 
works flawlessly and has made several hundred batches of beer.

Earlier in the week I posted inquiring about using this setup with  HDPE 
Barrels. Some responses indicated it would melt horribly. I did some 
research on my own and found from the Cole Parmer catalog that HDPE is good 
to 248F. My concern  at this point is that 248F is pretty close to 212F and 
that the barrels may become "unstable" (gooey, that is) before they actuall 
melt down at 248F.

I also noticed that a product called a "Bruheat Boiler" is manufactured from 
a HDPE bucket with an immersion element in it. The vendor states that they 
don't melt from a 1 hour boil.

None the less, gonna do a test with water first.... 
Glenn Anderson
Manager, Telecommunications Facilities, BCS
Sun Life Of Canada
GANDE at SLIMS.ATTMAIL.COM or
GRAMPS at INTERLOG.COM


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Date: Thu, 22 Sep 94 09:07:00 CST
From: Montgomery_John at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil
Subject: bottles for competitions

Hi,
    Just a little suggestion for what I do with each batch of beer I 
    bottle. At the beginning of every bottling session I cap off one 
    six-pack of brown generic 12 oz'ers in the event that I deem "this" 
    batch worthy of sending off to the races (if you compete often, cap 
    off more...). The remainder of the batch is usually the ever-
    convenient Grolsch(tm) style swing top bottles. FWIW...

john
montgomery_john at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil

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Date: Thu, 22 Sep 1994 09:35:11 -0500 (CDT)
From: Rich Larsen <rlarsen at free.org>
Subject: IBU Calulations

Lets see if we can tackle this one...

Hop pellets are generally more bittering or more effcient than whole hops 
by weight.

If the above statement is true then a concern arises with IBU calulations.

Are IBU calulations based on whole hops?  If so, the additional bittering 
power of pellets are not taken into account and therefore IBU calulations 
made on recipes using pellets are incorrect.

Whatcha think?

=> Rich  (rlarsen at squeaky.free.org)
_______________________________________________________________________
Rich Larsen (708) 388-3514 * Also on HomeBrew University (708) 705-7263
    "I never drink... wine"  Bela Lugosi as Dracula
_______________________________________________________________________
 

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1534, 09/23/94