FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  pressure treated wood, molds (CLAY)
  Caledonian tour, judging beer (Bob Jones)
  Wit beer synopsis (BrewerLee)
  1994 GABF Trip Report (John Adams)
  Starting a Pilsner , help? (OfficerRon)
  Pale Ale Hops (Michael L Montgomery +1 708 979 4132)
  Not to style & winning homebrew contests ... (Chris Lyons)
  Kriek (RLANCASTER)
  Homebrewer's Companion Errors (Steve Robinson)
  Coor's Infection (Steve Robinson)
  Press. Treat. Lumber (Steve Scampini)
  "dry"-hopping (Bruce Wiggins)
  GABF 1994 Winners [from James Spence] (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  DMS, Glassware (Dan Wood)
  beer bread / open fermentation in brewpot (25-Oct-1994 0953 -0400)
  Uses for grains (Jeff Stampes)
  Malta Goya (Rich Larsen)
  SIGNOFF (Brett Lawson)
  Re: National judging ("Ulick Stafford")
  Jim Koch saga continues.. (Keith Frank)
  A beginners question (JONATHAN)
  Yeast won't settle.... (Jack Skeels)
  Colman 10 Gallon Won't Last (Gary S. Kuyat)
  rousing yeast ("Dulisse, Brian")
  phone no. for Home Brewery stores (CGEDEN)
  beer in fridge (again!) / making lagers with ale yeast (Eamonn McKernan)
  Labels (HDIP9235)" <HDIP9235 at BCITVM.BCIT.BC.CA>



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 22:47:46 -0500 (EST)
From: CLAY at prism.clemson.edu
Subject: pressure treated wood, molds

1) Pressure treated lumber is not dangerous to grow plants on. 
If you burn it you should stay out of the smoke, and if you cut
it you shouldn't eat the sawdust or use it for mulch.  The CCA
(chromated copper arsenate, or some such) bonds chemically to the
cellulose in the wood during the treatment process.  (Dimensional
lumber is placed in huge stainless steel retorts, placed under
vacuum and heated, and calibrated amounts of the CCA solution are
injected.  The retort is then pressurized and kept hot for some
period of time.  During this process the CCA binds chemically to
the cellulose in the wood.  The failure rate - defined as the
production of wood that will not meet the specified decay-
resistance criteria - is dependent on the skill of the operator
and the proportion of sapwood to heartwood in each piece of
lumber being treated.  Heartwood absorbs progressively less CCA
as its resin content increases.  At some point the CCA retention
rate is insufficient to protect that piece, or that part of the
piece, of lumber.  Overall failure rate is about 10%, depending
on the retention rate and use rating specified.)  Significant
amounts of CCA do not leach out, even when in contact with soil. 
Your plants certainly will not absorb CCA from dry treated
lumber.  If you think about this a bit you'll see that the
alternative hypothesis, that the stuff leaches out, doesn't make
any sense.  If it did the lumber would not be resistant to
insects and decay, and it would be worthless.  The lower grades
of treated lumber (retention rates of .25 lbs/cubic foot) are not
resistant to decay or native subterranean termites when in
contact with the ground or kept constantly wet, although they do
decay, or get eaten, more slowly.  
 
1a) Diesel oil and creosote/pentachlorophenol mixtures are toxic,
carcinogenic, leach into groundwater, and don't preserve wood
very well.  I just looked at a large condominium complex in
Myrtle Beach, SC which has subterranean termites happily
infesting about 20% of the creosote-treated pilings.  Redwood,
cedar, cypress, etc. used to be resistant to rot and decay forty
years ago when there was still some old resiny heartwood
available.  The stuff they're cutting these days is second and
third growth stuff and has very littel resistant heartwood.  Red
redwood these days is mostly dyed.  Termites and decay will eat
all of it - I see 'em all the time.  Apologies to Dr. Coyote.
 
2) Molds: The world is full of molds.  If you live in a
crawlspace house, or one with a dirt-floored basement, try a
polyethylene vapor barrier over the soil in the crawlspace.  No
more than 70-80% coverage or your hardwood floors will warp. 
Extreme situations (e.g. medically demonstrated allergies, not
some mumbo-jumbo from your chiropractor, guru, clinical
ecologist, kid at the local feed store, etc.) may benefit from
treating the substructural wood with borate solutions ("Tim-bor,"
"Bora-Care," TM's, no connection, in fact I'm not very popular
with the manufacturers) to kill the moldies.  If your dwelling
has a slab foundation peel your carpet back and see what's
growing in the padding...  
 
If this is you, might be you, or is something of interest to you
I'd be happy to discuss via e-mail.  This information derives
from my own experience and training as a structural entomologist,
as well as contacts with academic researchers in the forestry and
wood-products fields. 
 
Regards,
Cam Lay 
clay at clust1.clemson.edu
"...bright enough, but not likely to be a good long-term fit in
the corporate environment."  --DowElanco, Inc. 

apologies for use of bandwdth for peripheral subjects.  

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 20:14:23 +0900
From: bjones at bdt.com (Bob Jones)
Subject: Caledonian tour, judging beer

Andy Kligerman spoke about his tour at the Caledonian brewery in Scotland.
Sounds like you had the same tour from the same fellow that gave us a tour
about a year ago. Indead it was my favorite tour. I fell in love with the
Deuchars IPA, what a beer! We also went down to the tasting room and pulled
a few with the workers, great fun. I would highly recommend this brewery
tour if you are in the Edinburgh area.

Ulick Stafford complains about the AHA guidelines on judging and observes
that bigger beers win competitions. Well its true. I would put more of the
blame on judges, however. Most judges seem to be swept up in the judging
event and decide that bigger is better. It is a judges duty to not be
distracted by the bigness of the beer and give it an honest score based on
style, regardless of what the AHA style guideline says. Your palate and
experience should rule here, in my opinion.

Note my new home email address,

Bob Jones
bjones at bdt.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 23:33:55 -0400
From: BrewerLee at aol.com
Subject: Wit beer synopsis

Howdy All!

I'm in debt to all of you that helped me with my Wit Biere recipe.  I have
amassed
enough knowledge to sink a ship!

Thanks especially to Martin Lodahl, John DeCarlo, Dirk Houser and all the
rest who
sent me info.  Some of the following is directly from them, some is from a
re-post 
of Phillip Seitz's article on Wit Beers.

Style Guidelines:

Suggested guidelines: 1.044-1.055, 4.5-5.5% ABV, 15-22 IBU, 2-4 SRM.  Golden 
yellow, cloudy when chilled.  Coriander flavor and mild acidity essential.
 Wheat 
and bitter orange peel flavors desirable.  Mild hop flavor and aroma ok.  Low
to 
medium bitterness.  Low to medium body, Medium or higher carbonation. No 
diacetyl.  Low to medium esters. 

Grain Bill:

The general concensus seems to run towards a Pilsner malt for the crisper
taste 
it will impart to the beer.  The extract will be lower (one source quotes a 6
point 
difference) than a domestic 2-row due to the lower diastatic potential of the

Pilsner malt.  Higher degrees of conversion seem to lend a fuller palate
which is 
generally considered undesirable in this style.

Martin Lohdal spoke with Peter Camps, a brewer at Celis in Austin, and he 
indicated that at Celis they use a six row malt of an unidentified variety. 

The next grain to consider is wheat.  The wheat you use should be unmalted.  
Whole grain wheat either winter red or soft white is acceptable, or you may 
choose to use wheat flakes.  The flakes are pre-gelatinized and may be added 
directly to the mash while the whole grains need to be ground and gelatinized
in 
order to convert the starches to fermentables.  I have not been able to find
two 
sources that agree on the gelatinization temperature of wheat nor whether the
wheat needs to be pre-cooked.  I suggest that you do pre-cook the wheat in
order 
to insure gelatinization as the wheat must be included in the mash for a
protein 
rest and it is doubtful that the gelatinization would be complete at those
low 
temperatures in the time alloted for the rest.

The final consideration in the grain department would be Oats.  Many brewers 
indicated that they feel a small amount of oats (5-10%) adds a silky
character 
desirable for this style.  Rolled, cut, quick, whatever.  The same
considerations 
apply as the wheat.

Hops:

Hops should be of the classic varieties such as the East Kent or Styrian
Goldings.
Some brewers use Saaz or Hallertauer as well.  The range to shoot for ideally
is 
16-18 IBU in a 60 minute boil with some of that (about 1/2 ounce for a 5
gallon 
batch) going in for a discreet flavor addition at fifteen minutes.

Spices/Flavorings:

One of the most distinctive flavors in a Wit Beer is orange.  Use bitter
orange peels (sometimes called Curacau) at about 1/3 to 1/2 ounce for a 5
gallon batch.  Add 
them in the final 20 minutes of the boil.  Something worth trying in addition
to the 
bitter orange would be sweet orange peel or even tangerine peel (as suggested
by 
Martin Lohdal).  This would be added in the last 5 minutes or at knock-out at
a rate 
of perhaps 1/2 ounce for a 5 gallon batch. 

Coriander!  'Nuf said!  Start with whole coriander seeds at the rate of 1
ounce per 5
gallons and grind them fresh for your brew.  Add them to the boil in the last
5 
minutes or at the end of the boil after the heat is off.  Experimentation is
in order 
here.

Another important characteristic in a Wit is acidity.  This comes from lactic
acid
produced by a strain of bacteria known to the brewer to produce a clean
lactic 
sourness.  Clean seems to be the operative word here.  The sour mash method
recommended by Charlie Papazian doesn't seem to be a good idea as there are 
many organisms found on grain and all of them may not be conducive to a good 
clean sourness.  Adding lactic acid (88%) at bottling at a rate of 5 to 15 ml
per 
5 gallons will give a clean lactic sourness. 

Yeast:

Yeast Labs, WYeast, BrewTek and probably others have specific strains for Wit

Beers. The one from BrewTek has been highly recommended.

The Mash:

A decoction mash would be the traditional method for this style.  Include in
your 
mash schedule a 45 minute protein rest at a temperature between 117-126 deg
F.  
This will loosen up the gummy mess of a mash that the wheat has created
without 
breaking down all of the starches that will contribute to the beer's finished
character.  
The protein rests discussed lately at 132 deg. F would not be indicated here.
 These 
rests promote a breakdown of the larger chain starches into particles that
will 
promote head retention.  This shouldn't be a problem with a grist of this
makeup.  
One added benefit if you choose to do a decoction, you can use the first
decoction 
to cook your wheat and oats for gelatinization and add them back to your mash
to
raise the temperature to the next rest. 

This should about cover it for anyone out there who is thinking about doing a
Wit
Beer.  Thanks again to all who helped me with mine.


 -Lee C. Bussy
 BrewerLee at aol.com

October 24, 1994
9:43 pm

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 23:01:28 -0600
From: John Adams <j_adams at hpfcjca.sde.hp.com>
Subject: 1994 GABF Trip Report

I attended the 1994 GABF as a Professional Panel Blind Tasting steward
and as a festival attendee and this was by far the most enjoyable
festival I have every attended.  

The "festival" started Tuesday evening at Boulder's Hop Barley and the
Aler's AHA club meeting.  Mark Dorber of England's White Horse on Parson's
Green presented his views on cask conditioned real ales and brought many,
many, MANY English pub ales with him (included a firkin of cask conditioned
Martens' Owd Rodger)!

The festival judging started Thursday and continued thru Friday
afternoon.  As a steward I have the priveledge of serving this year's
judges for the Herb and Specialty, India Pale Ale, Fruit and Vegetable,
American Malt Liquor, and German-style Wheat catagories.

This year's judges include: Mark Dorber, Fred Eckhardt, Hans Kestler, Finn
Knudsen, Brad Kraus, Jeff Lebesch,  Phil Moeller, Bill Seibel, Alex Vigil,
and Eric Warner.  As well as Michael Jackson, George and Laurie Fix, and
Charlie Papazian.

Not only did I get to meet many of the judges and watch the judging
process but I was able to sample a multitude of excellant beers before the
festival started (actually as they were being judged).

Friday evening started with a one hour invitation-only sampling followed
by the offical opening to the public.  I focused my attention on past
favorites and the lookout for new favorites.  I also took the time to 
talk with many of the judges and brewer's in a more relaxed setting.

Saturday afternoon was open to AHA members for private tastings and the
announcement of the judging.  During this time I focused my tastings on
Scotch Ales, Mai bocks, Smoked beers, and Barley Wines.

Saturday evening was once again open to the public and after the previous
two days I was ready to settle back open enjoy more beers in a relaxed
(but very crowded) setting.  I focused my attentions on medal winners and
favorites of the judges and brewers I talked with (I offered Pete a
nickel for his autograph and beer surfed with Fred).

This year's GABF was an excellant experience and I am already looking
forward to next year.  Being a steward to the judging I was fortunate to
be able to take home the extra beers.  For me the GABF still has about 4
cases of great beer to go!


John Adams
- ------------------------

Dixie Holy Smoke (Bronze) +
Dixie Brewing Company
   A very Rauchbier-like brew.  Very smokey and malty but a tad bit
   harsh.

Bhagwan's Best India Pale Ale ++
Big Time Brewing Company
   A velvety smooth and hoppy IPA.  This beer was my second favorite of
   the entire festival.

Rauchbier
Zip City
   A nice smokey aroma and malty/smokey finish.  Very nice.

Ol' Avalanche Barley Wine
Assets Grille and Brewing Company
   Not sweet enough and a bit too hoppy for a barley wine.

DeGroen's Mai Bock
Balimore Brewing Company
   Somewhat sweet in the nose and flowery.  Could be a bit more alcoholic.

Smoked Scottish Ale
Birkebeiner Brewing Company
   Not a very smoked aroma but has a medium smoked flavor.  Good hop and
   malt balance but could use a bit more malt in the taste.

SOB's ESB +
Bluegrass Brewing Company
   A bit diacetyl but nicely hopped and somewhat refreshing.  Really too
   bitter for the style but very enjoyable.
	
Bosco's Famous Flaming Stone Beer +
Bosco's Pizza Kitchen and Brewery
   This is a favorite brewery of mine since my visit to Memphis 1 year
   and a half ago.  A nice hop nose and somewhat bitter but malty sweet
   flavor.  Very enjoyable.

Bannatyne's Scotch Ale +
Cambridge Brewing Company
   Malty nose and flavor.  No harshness and finishes malty clean.

Celis Grand Cru
Celis Brewery Inc.
   A very nice malty aroma and taste.  Very smooth and finishes clean.

Grant's Scottish Ale
Grant's Ales/Yakima Brewing
   A nice malt aroma but finishes a bit dry and harsh.

Wit's End
Great Lakes Brewing Company
   A very nice coriander aroma.  Finishes a bit harsh.

Mai Bock
Hops! Bistro and Brewery
   Sweet and medium mild, very enjoyable.  Low hop bitterness.

Hickory Switch Smoked Amber Ale +
Otter Creek Brewing Inc.
   A bit light in the smoke aroma and medium smoked taste.  No harshness
   and very enjoyable for a lighter smoked beer.

Triple +++
Pacific Coast Brewing Company
   Malty aroma and a little buttery but very nice.  Smooth taste and
   finishes clean.  My personal best of show!

No. 119 Maibock
Riverside Brewing Company
   A bit too hoppy for the style.  Too bitter flavor and possibly a bit
   diacetylic.

Chicken Killer Barley Wine +
The Sante Fe Brewing Company
   Malty sweet and smooth.  Not too alcoholic for a barley wine but very
   nice.

Sea Dog Maibok
Sea Dog Brewing Company
   Malty sweet and of medium alcoholic strength.  Low to medium hop
   bitterness and finishes clean.

Hop Head Red
Squatter's Pub and Brewery
   Medium hop bitterness and rather bland.  Given the name (and my love
   of hoppy beers) I was disappointed with the low amount of hops.

Mai-bock (Bronze) +
Stoudt Brewing Company
   Very smooth and finishes clean.  Not overly hopped.

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 03:49:57 -0400
From: OfficerRon at aol.com
Subject: Starting a Pilsner , help?

I have decided to try Don McDaniel's PU recipe from Cat's Meow, and I have a
few questions.  I am a new brewer, and this will be my first try at liquid
yeast. (Wyeast #2007), any suggestions??  Also, I neewd 15 AAU's Saaz hops,
how do I convert HBU's to AAu's?  Or probably more importantly,, AAU's to
Ozs??  Please help,
Ron in Peoria

Return to table of contents


Date: 25 Oct 94 11:06:00 GMT
From: mlm01 at intgp1.att.com (Michael L Montgomery +1 708 979 4132)
Subject: Pale Ale Hops

I would like to pose a question to the masses. I brewed an
India Pale Ale and used Northern Brewer as the bittering hop
and had Cascade additions at 30 minutes, 15 minutes and 0 minutes.
I also dry hopped with Cascades. According to Terry Fosters "Pale
Ale" book, almost any hop suits the style. The table on page 50
supports his comments. He states that he personnaly likes Goldings,
but the table on page 50 lists many varieties of hops to be used for
aroma and flavoring. Now the question? I entered the India Pale Ale
in a local contest and the most comments were on the absence of
Goldings hops. The beer took a first, but probably could have scored
higher had I used Goldings for aroma and flavor hops. Is there an
unwritten rule that an India Pale Ale has to have English Hops?


Mike Montgomery
mlm01 at intgp1.att.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 08:47:12 EDT
From: Chris Lyons <Chris.Lyons at analog.com>
Subject: Not to style & winning homebrew contests ...

Regarding the topic of people winning homebrew competitions by
entering brews not to style ...

I had an interesting conversation with a BJCP certified judge
in which he mentioned, that in general, you have to accentuate
the ingredients in your brew in order to win a competition.
He gave as an example, using a significantly greater amount
of hops in a pale ale.  The reasoning ... you need to make
you beer stand out from the rest of the crowd.  Apparently the
judges will taste several different beers (especially in the pale
ale category), and you need to do something to make your's stand
out.

Although he did not state this explicitly, I infered from our
conversation, that after tasting several overly bitter beers
that the next appropriately hopped beer would be preceived as
under hopped.  His final comment kind of struck a cord with me ...
in concluding, he mentioned that the beers that they rate the
best, are not always the beers they would like to have frequently,
they are too over done for the style.  In fact, this judge
recommended using different amounts of ingredients depending
on whether you were brewing for a homebrew competition, or
whether you were brewing for your own personal enjoyment.

Regards,
Chris

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 08:46:27 -0400
From: RLANCASTER at ntia.doc.gov
Subject:  Kriek


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#8V$*
`
end


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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 09:01:23 EDT
From: Steve Robinson <Steve.Robinson at analog.com>
Subject: Homebrewer's Companion Errors


I was thumbing through Charlie P.'s new HOMEBREWER'S COMPANION this weekend and
noticed a couple of glaring errors that people should watch out for.  In the
section on mashing, he reprints the triple decoction mash schedule from Noonan's
BREWING LAGER BEERS, but manages to screw it up.  Charlie talks about doughing
in with 5/8 quart of BOILING water per pound of malt to get to acid rest temps,
then adding an additional 3/8 quart boiling water to get to the protein rest.
Those of us who have used this schedule know that the initial dough-in is with
5/8 quart of ROOM-TEMP water per pound of grain, followed by an infusion of
3/8 quart boiling water per pound to reach the acid rest.  Getting to protein
rest temperatures is accomplished by the first DECOCTION.

In the section on water treatment, Charlie equates 5 grams of gypsum with 1
TABLESPOON volume measurement.  At least with the gypsum that I use, 5 grams is
closer to 1 TEASPOON.

Of course, Charlie's fly-by-night techniques made much more sense once he
explained that as an undergraduate he was never able to grok either Chemistry,
the science behind brewing, or Electrical Engineering, the chosen profession of
all right-thinking individuals :-)

Hoppy Brewing to the other Steve!

Steve R.
steve.robinson at analog.com

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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 09:09:34 EDT
From: Steve Robinson <Steve.Robinson at analog.com>
Subject: Coor's Infection


Hey, I read in the paper recently where Coor's had to recall 150,000 cases of
beer due to a bacterial infection.  Guess it can happen even to the big boys.

Steve R.
steve.robinson at analog.com

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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 9:27:14 EDT
From: Steve Scampini <scampini at hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: Press. Treat. Lumber

Concerning the use of pressure treated lumber in the garden.  My wife's
aunt and uncle run a pressure treating operation in Idaho.  According to
them (and they of course have a financial interest in this subject) the
chemistry of pressure treating "locks" the chemicals into the wood fibers.
Also, one of their biggest customers is (surprise to me) vineyards in
California!  I personally don't like the idea of using the stuff near
plant roots but this is based more on the fact that using conventional
wood is not a big problem.  I do use pressure treated for decking and
the sills of my home but I treat it as I do pesticides...good products to
be used sparingly where clearly the benefits outweigh my estimation of the
risks.  As a precaution I now put on my ASBESTOS (glup) flame suit.

P.S. Never, ever burn the stuff...it liberates the metals (copper, chromium
and arsenic) from the wood.  Apparently one of the horror stories in the 
industry concerns someone who routinely burned the stuff in their wood 
stove...high levels of arsenic in the kid's hair samples and other bad
stuff.

Steve

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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 09:54:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Bruce Wiggins <FAC_BWIGGINS at VAX1.ACS.JMU.EDU>
Subject: "dry"-hopping

I've been wondering:

Why is it called "dry" hopping?  The hops are always "dry", whether you add
them in the boil or to the secondary.  The difference is the temperature of the
wort/brew when the hops are added.  Why not call it "cold" hopping, or
something like that?  What is the history of the term "dry-hopping", anyway?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Hoppy brewing,

Bruce Wiggins
fac_bwiggins at vax1.acs.jmu.edu

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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 10:02:17 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: GABF 1994 Winners [from James Spence]

> American Brown Ale
>  Silver Oregon Trail Brown Ale, Oregon Trail Brewery - Corvallis, OR
>  Bronze Tut Brown Ale, Oasis Brewery - Boulder, CO

What IS it with brown ales, anyway???  First the NHC, now the GABF!

> Blonde Ale
>  Bronze Big Nose Blond, McNeill's Brewery - Brattleboro, VT

Does anyone know what a "Blonde Ale" is supposed to be?  And why can't
anyone brew it???


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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 08:55:46 CDT
From: wood at ranger.rtsg.mot.com (Dan Wood)
Subject: DMS, Glassware

I posted several weeks ago about a problem I was having with
infections.  Many thanks to those who provided excellent advice.

I was almost ready to summarize the responses and gloat over my
triumph over the evil bacterial forces, when the cornbrew (no TM)
hit.  I racked my latest batch into a secondary last night, and
it smells EXACTLY like cooked corn.  Charlie P's troubleshooting
chart says bacterial infection, but I'm not so sure.

Following the advice of other HBDers, I've improved my techniques
a number of ways:
 - sanitize with Idophor, either no rinse or preboiled rinse water
 - thoroughly clean all equipment with TSP before sanitizing
 - handle wort in still air
 - pitch alot of yeast
I brew 5 g extract batches, full boil, immersion chiller sanitized in
boil.  I ferment in glass carboys.

I pitched 1/2 gallon of starter of Wyeast London Ale into the
"cornbrew", and had large amounts of blowoff when I checked it 6 hours
later.  I grew the starter to that size in 3 generations (4 counting the
pack), and it smelled fine when I pitched it. I used the entire
starter, not just the slurry.  OG was 1.050.  The air temp for the
ferment was about 65-70 degrees.

The smell/taste is much different than the infection (suspected
coliform) I was having trouble with.  The corn smell/taste is distinct,
but smells sweet and not unpleasant, it just doesn't belong in my
beer!  The infection, which I still think I may have beat, smelled
nasty and rank, like rotten vegetables.

Is this DMS?  Any ideas on where it came from?  How to prevent it?  Any
hope for this beer?  Again, I seriously doubt infection, my sanitation
practices are pretty rigorous.  However, I appreciate any input, even
"it's an infection, dummy", if accompanied by some hints on where it
came from.

Glassware: Does anyone have a source for all glass 'S' shaped airlocks?
I've melted a couple of the plastic ones.  How about a source for 
reasonable cost 1L Erlenmeyer flasks?

Hoppy Brewing Steve!		Thanks much,		Dan Wood
							wood at cig.mot.com



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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 09:59:41 EDT
From: 25-Oct-1994 0953 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: beer bread / open fermentation in brewpot

>Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 10:59:41 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Aaron Walls <awalls at u.washington.edu>
>Subject: Bread from Beer
>
>	Does anyone have a recipe for bread made from the grain left over 
>after lautering?  A local bakery does it in conjunction with some local 
>breweries and its real good.

after i lauter my grains, i give about a 1/2 gal worth of grains to my wife who
makes bread.  bread is pretty easy shit to make; we rarely use a recipe
and just prefer to shoot from the hip when making it.  it goes something
like this:

3c white flour
1c wheat flour
2c brew grains (or so)
1/2c sugar
1 1/2c of warm H20
yeast

make a yeast starter.
while that is frothing away, mix flour and crap together.
add yeast/h20 to flour.  kneed.  you may have to add more
flour to make it right.  (i'm guessing on the amts here).
BAKE for 40mins at 375; put tin foil over the top of the loaf
for the last 15 mins or so.


>Date: Mon, 24 Oct 94 14:13:34 CDT
>From: "Hapke, Jeff" <jhapke at usr.com>
>Subject: Open primary ferment in brew pot?
>
>
>     In my last batch of brew I tried something a little different, instead 
>     of racking to a primary, I pitched into the brewpot.  I did this to 
>     eliminate as much sterilizing, and handling as possible. I used an 
>     immersion chiller (60' of copper chills FAST!), pitched, covered, and 
>     placed in a cool dry place. Fermentation was going strong by morning, 
>     and I racked to a carboy secondary 5 days later. My Question is, why 

I do this and it works great.  i've done 4-5 batchs, 10 of 'em 10gallon, using
this method.  i make a yeast starter, ferment for 48 hrs, rack to kegs for
conditioning.  less mess to clean up as well!

jc

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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 08:09:29 MDT
From: jeff at neocad.com (Jeff Stampes)
Subject: Uses for grains


	Does anyone have a recipe for bread made from the grain left over 
after lautering?  A local bakery does it in conjunction with some local 
breweries and its real good.

I do not have any such recipe, but I do have another good use for grain
after brewing . . . cereal!  I take my grains after sparging, spread them
on a cookie sheet and sprinkle them with sugar & cinnamon.  Then bake in
the oven at about 425F, turning frequently, until they have baked bone-dry
all the way through.  It comes out a little chewy, and is the dietary 
equivalent of eating a push-broom, but it's really tasty!

Any other ideas out there for how to use those spent grains other than
composting them?

Jeff Stampes
jeff at neocad.com

And on the Eigth day God created homebrew . . . 
	and hasn't been heard from since.

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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 09:25:31 -0500 (CDT)
From: Rich Larsen <rlarsen at free.org>
Subject: Malta Goya


Well I found a source of Malta Goya.  Actually the proper name is simply
Malta.  Goya is the brand.

What is it?  According to the bottle, it is brewed from the finest
malted barley, corn, corn syrup, hops, and water.  Notice there is one
special ingredient missing.  Yeast.

This stuff is basically a malt soda pop.  A product aimed at the
Hispanic market.  The label points out that it contains less than 0.5%
(or was it 0.05%) alcohol and therefore exempt from taxes under bill...
blah blah blah.  Here's the funny thing.  Its brewed in PA.

Anyway, the stuff has 280 claries per serving, has a specific gravity of
1.060, and tastes like wort.  Not simply like wort... Exactly like wort.
We're talking heavy duty malt extract flavor.  The body is a bit thinner
than a 1.060 wort, but its still pretty sweet.  If you love malt you'll
like Malta.

The color is about the color of a good porter, nice ruby brown, but it
does not seem to have much roasty dark malt flavor.  Maybe its mostly
dark crystal malts.  The hops seem to be pretty non-existant, probably
there only for balancing the intense sweetness.

No.. I didn't finish the bottle.. but my 2 1/2 year old son kept saying
"more?  more?"

I found it a (of all places) Jewel Food Store at 22nd and Rockwell in
Chicago in the Mexican food eisle.

I think I will see if the stuff will make a good source of wort for
yeast starters.  At 35 cents a bottle, it is a pretty cheap and simple
source.

=> Rich  (rlarsen at squeaky.free.org)
_______________________________________________________________________
Rich Larsen (708) 388-3514 * Also on HomeBrew University (708) 705-7263
    "I never drink... wine"  Bela Lugosi as Dracula
_______________________________________________________________________


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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 10:54:08 EDT
From: Brett Lawson <blawson at Wittenberg.EDU>
Subject: SIGNOFF

SIGNOFF BLAWSON
por favor

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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 10:20:31 -0500 (EST)
From: "Ulick Stafford" <ulick at ulix.rad.nd.edu>
Subject: Re: National judging

I went back to check the winner's circle in the recent Zymurgy after 
Spencer Thomas informed me that the winning Scottish Ale was really a Scotch
Strong ale that was way over gravity.  The brewer of this beer was the 
same as the brewer of the big 'bitter' I mentioned, and won the
prestigious Ninkasi trophy as a result of these two first places.  
One curiosity about the 
beers that won that were not to style because they were much too strong was 
that a suspiciously large number went through first round judging in 
California.  Jeff Frane mentioned that when he judged the final round
in Portland many of the beers that had passed the first round were not to 
style.

I believe the last question on the judging sheet should be is the beer
a good representative of its style (and it would not be more appropriate in
another style).  Give it a big score if it earned it, but don't consider 
it a winner.   And please have judges read the guidelines on the day 
before they start to judge.  Spencer's comment that the judges didn't seem 
to have a clue what a heavy was supposed to be is revealing.
__________________________________________________________________________
 'Heineken!?! ... F#$% that s at &* ...  | Ulick Stafford, Dept of Chem. Eng.  
    Pabst Blue Ribbon!'               | Notre Dame IN 46556
   http://ulix.rad.nd.edu/Ulick.html  |    Ulick.Stafford at nd.edu   


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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 10:55:14 -0500
From: keithfrank at dow.com (Keith Frank)
Subject: Jim Koch saga continues..

***** (From Bruce DeBolt) *****

I have followed the messages on the Boston Beer Co. litigation practices with 
more interest since visiting Boston Beer Works this summer and thoroughly 
enjoying the place.  How could they pick on such a small business?  Now I 
am incensed that they are plying these tactics in Texas with one of our 
historical legends.

To quote from Southwest Brewing News (SWBN), Oct./Nov. issue, p. 34:

"According to Waterloo Brewing Company's Billy Forrester, a Boston Beer 
Company rep has contacted him, claiming that BBC has trademarked the name 
'Sam Houston'.  They recommended that the Austin publican stop calling his 
beer Sam Houston's Austin Lager, given that further use will constitute 
'intent'.  Given that the beer is already entered in the GABF, the 'Duel 
Between the Sams' should be quite entertaining.  Stay tuned for a blow by 
blow account."

I for one can't wait two months for the next SWBN issue to come out to find 
out how things went in Denver.  Did anyone see if Waterloo kept their beer 
and name at the GABF?

For those who don't know Waterloo is a brewpub (can't bottle in Texas) and 
ran some tongue in cheek radio ads promoting their lager by comparing Sam 
Adams (the man) to Sam Houston (the man).  Just when did BBC trademark 
Houston's name anyway?  After those ads ran?  

Now I must join the ranks who are boycotting BBC products.  The thought that 
these guys would trademark "Sam Houston" is too much to take.  I would like 
to run my own radio commercial with the sound of breaking bottles and a 
voice-over of thousands of angry Texans breaking perfectly good Sam Adams 
bottles.  

How about it Texas homebrew club members?  A protest of this sort at the 
Texas Brewers Festival on Nov. 6 might be fun.  Unfortunately I can't be in 
Austin that weekend but will gladly spread the word down here.  In the 
Festival brochure I didn't see BBC listed as a promoter.  

Bruce DeBolt
c/o keithfrank at dow.com

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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 16:26:28 +0000
From: JONATHAN at seiph.umds.ac.uk
Subject:  A beginners question

The time has arrived to try to brew some holiday ale. The
problem that I have is that the recipe demands that I boil 3
gallons. Problem -  I only have a pan that will take about 1.5
gallons. Should I brew half the quantity, just use less water
and make it up later or wait 'till I have a larger pan ?

All advice gratefully received...

Jonathan Pennick
Tunbridge Wells, Kent, UK


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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 12:41 EST
From: Jack Skeels <0004310587 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Yeast won't settle....

HELP!

I brewed a partial mash version of Miller's British Bitter, using Demerara
sugar about a month ago.  All went well with the ferment -- I used Brewtek's
CL-170 Classic British Ale yeast, at 60F for a week.  

I then racked (SG 1.013) to a corny keg for the secondary.  This is where
the "fun" started.  I thought "Gee, I probably won't get much pressure build
up from the secondary, so I'll just leave it sealed (yikes!)".

Well about a week later (55F) I thoght I'd see how it was doing.  I flipped
the pressure relief, and the air just kept on coming, for about two minutes,
and then foam and hop-bits.  And then it clogged.  Hmmmmm.  After much
wrastlin' about, I finally punched down the top and was showered by hops and
foam.  After cleaning up, I removed the gas-in fitting and attached an
airlock.  I put it back in the fridge for about two weeks.  When I racked
(SG 1.010) last weekend (four weeks after brewing) the yeast seemed to be
totally suspended STILL.  The beer was as cloudy as when it was in the
primary.

So, I dumped some Polyclar into it, sealed it, and put 25lbs of pressure to
force carbonate.  What gives?  The beer tastes great, but is a bit yeasty. 
I've never had this kind of problem before (15 batches).  Oh BTW, I used a
wort aerator for this batch.

Any advice is welcome (private e-mail is fine).

Also, I agree with Norm -- the HBD has never been better. THanks for a great
year!

Jack Skeels
JSKEELS at MCIMAIL.COM


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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 15:47:16 EDT
From: Gary S. Kuyat <gsk at sagan.bellcore.com>
Subject: Colman 10 Gallon Won't Last
Full-Name: Gary S. Kuyat

Yesterday's HBD carried an endorsment of the Coleman 10 Gallon cooler by Jim
Robinson.  Jim mentioned that his cooler had survived 4 mashes.  I have done
more than 20 mashes, and the cooler is now a puddle of slag.  Actually COOLER
is a great name for it, since it cools my mashes pretty quickly!  This thing
was GREAT in the beginning, but as time went by it deformed, and the layers
of insulation pulled apart.  Do yourself a favor and buy something rated to
take the heat.  The Gotts are Great!  The Coleman is a good product, but it's
just not meant for heat.
- --
 -Gary Kuyat
  gsk at sagan.bellcore.com
  (908)699-8422

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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 17:06:00 EST
From: "Dulisse, Brian" <BBD4 at CIPCOD1.EM.CDC.GOV>
Subject: rousing yeast


a while back there was some discussion on the flocculation characteristics 
of the wyeast 1968 london special bitter yeast.  as i recall, users had 
noted that the yeast drop out quite readily, often before the wort has 
thoroughly fermented out.  some users recommended rousing the yeast to get 
them to finish their work.  how is this actually done?  i imagine it would 
be a bad thing to start shaking a carboy filled with partially fermented 
wort, because of the oxidation which would result.  is stirring with 
something long enough to reach the bottom of the carboy appropriate 
(assuming the stirring is done without discontinuously breaking the surface, 
i.e., splashing)?  or is my simple mind being too literal about the term 
"rousing", and what is actually done is not a physical treatment?  e-mail is 
fine; i'll post a summary.  tia

bd

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Date:         Tue, 25 Oct 94 17:37:47 EDT
From: CGEDEN at NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU
Subject:      phone no. for Home Brewery stores

In yesterday's HBD I mentioned that "The Home Brewery" stores were selling
Mittelfrueh hops but neglected to give their phone number.  Each of their
stores has its own 800 number.  Here are two of them:
   800-245-BREW  the Brooksville, Florida store that I've bought stuff from
   800-321-BREW  the flagship store in Ozark, Missouri
Chris Geden (cgeden at nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu)

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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 94 18:45:35 EDT
From: Eamonn McKernan <eamonn at rainbow.physics.utoronto.ca>
Subject:  beer in fridge (again!) / making lagers with ale yeast

Greetings again,
        My first posting in HBD 1535 did not get a very string response,
so being rather stubborn, I'm trying again!

        From HDB # 1535:

" I've had very bad luck when refrigerating my bottled homebrew. 3 or 4 days in
the fridge is enough to kill all sweetness in the beer, and make it quite
unpleasant to drink. I know that sweet taste buds are less sensitive at cold
temperatures, but equally cold homebrew which is not refrigerated (cooled
quickly in the freezer) tastes delicious. This effect happens with a number of
different kinds of brew, and sometimes even seems to vary between bottles.
I've also noticed that some micro-brewery beers also behave strangely when
refrigerated. What's going on here?   "

        Only a couple of people responded to my queries, and thanks to my
own incompetence, I was not able to thank one or two of them (damn mailer!).
To the one or two people I lost track of : sorry, and thanks for the effort!

        One theory that popped to mind yesterday was hot side aeration. I
don't have a wort chiller (starving student), and things sometimes do splash
around. I know that this decreases shelf life of beer, but could refrigeration
be what triggers the process of going bad? Perhaps Glenn and the people
discussing the "extend homebrew life with refrigeration" have something
to add?

        Apparently I'm not alone with this problem, so at least I know I'm
not totally crazy.

        As for Rick complaining that breweries shouldn't make lager with ale
yeasts, what's the big deal? If you can't tell the difference, then why would
you care? If the beer is good, drink. If it isn't, then buy something else, or
better yet, brew your own! I suppose that there is something to be said for
"tradition" and all that. Granted. But the real distinction between ale and
lager yeasts has become fuzzier as new strains are bred. Of course, if they
are trying to cover up their actions, then flame them at will!

        Just my own 2 cents worth.

        Eamonn McKernan
        eamonn at rainbow.physics.utoronto.ca

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Date:         Tue, 25 Oct 94 16:04:23 PDT
From: "Peter Hadikin (HDIP9235)" <HDIP9235 at BCITVM.BCIT.BC.CA>
Subject:      Labels

FROM:  Peter Hadikin (HDIP9235)
       (604) 432-8452

Is there anybody out there that knows where are person could get hold of some
gummed labels that you could run through a laser printer to use as wine labels
and beer labels. I don't want the peel and stick type ... soak in water and
place on bottle is what I am after.

Thanks in advance for any help any of you may be able to provide.

Peter.

BC Institute of Technology
Computer Resources
3700 Willingdon Avenue

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1562, 10/26/94