FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  William Large Keg Rings (Phil Brushaber)
  NJ Homebrew Shops (Dennis Forester)
  Using corn (maize) ("Mark A. Melton")
  Malt instead of Corn Sugar? (kelly williams)
  HBD Hardcopy Edition (Clay Glenn)
  CAMRA Real Beer(?) Guide (Gorman)
  Re: Pale Ale Hops (Tel +44 784 443167)
  Re: Wits and decoctions (Jim Busch)
  Re: Wit beer synopsis (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  re: Not to style & winning homebrew contests .. (Glenn Anderson)
  What I saw in the Houtson A-B hop room (Sean Lamb)
  Re: labels (John Adams)
  Mashing (Un)malted Wheat (David Cutkosky)
  Bread suggestions from a pro (Nancy.Renner)
  Labels (Nancy.Renner)
  steam, orange bags (/R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/)
  AHA Contest Rules / Conflicts of Interest (Tom Baier)
  hop sources (Greg Niznik)
  Re: SUBSCRIPTION STATUS (October 2 6, 1994) (RICH LAPMAN)
  Coleman Pt II ("Jim Robinson")
  Briess 2 row specs (Glenn Anderson)
  Sam Houston vs. Sam Adams (Fred Waltman)
  Bread Recipe ("A. Sturdivant \"Sturdy\" McKee")
  Wheat in a Wit ("Jeff M. Michalski, MD")
  Jim Koch saga continues... (LBRISTOL)
  grain mill question (Ray Gaffield)
  1st place at Dixie Cup (RON)
  National Judging/ Coleman Coolers ("David Sapsis")
  Blonde/Golden Ale (Mark Gryska)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 16:56:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Phil Brushaber <pbrush at netcom.com>
Subject: William Large Keg Rings


This is not an ad for Williams brewing, but they seem to be the only 
distributor of the product for which I would like some feedback.

No matter how often I change out that large ring on my kegs I still get 
leaks. The product that Williams carries (you know the one for about 
$5.50) claims to be larger in diameter and softer to assure a much better 
seal. At five times the standard price, they are a rip off if they don't 
help. On the other hand if they work, they're a bargain.

Any advice before I spring for these puppies?   -- Phil

                                             pbrush at netcom.com


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Date:        Tue, 25 Oct 94 22:36:04 EST
From: Dennis Forester <X6OT at MUSIC.STLAWU.EDU>
Subject: NJ Homebrew Shops


     Someone made a post a few days ago about a Shop In Morristown, NJ
called Hop & Vine. I would like to give my input on this and other shops
in NJ and ask any other Members of HBD to either post thier impresions
or e-mail them to me. I am trying to compile this info only for my own
info in my quest of the best shop in NJ to Frequent. i.e. best prices,
selections, friendliness and helpfulness.

Hop & Vine    Morristown, NJ
    I felt that the store looked very nice and that was about all. IMHO
the prices were high and the selection was poor. This is a relatively
new store and this may improve with age but I don't think that thay will
be around long enough to improve.

Brewmeister   Cranford, NJ
    This store had better prices but the selection was not great. The
thing that I disliked the most about this store was the staff people
that helped me. He was loud, annoying and not seem very knowledgable and
and I got the feeling he was making up answers for things he did not
know.

Home Brewery  Bagota, NJ
    This store has a pretty good selection and decent prices. The staff
is fairly knowledgable but they are the most arogant SOB's I have ever
met when it come to brewing. I went to this store only a few times and I
plan never to go back there. I bought my starting equipment from them
because I knew of none other at the time. When I went in to ask question
they barely would give me the time of day because I was not advanced
enough for them. My impression of them was that they believe themselves
to be beer GURU's and if you have not brewed for 5 years and know as
much as they think they do they wont waste there time with you.

U-Brew        Maplewood, NJ
    This is the store that at this time I do most of my shopping. They
have a great selection and their pricing is VERY good. The owners are
very knowledgable and they will spent as much time as they can with me
to try and help me with any problems I may be having. Another thing that
I like about them is that they are not afraid to admit that they do not
know everything there is to know about brewing. I came in with a problem
once that they were not sure about. They had a few calls while I was
waiting to some of their suppliers and I got the answer to my question.
The one draw back to this store is it's location. The neighborhood is
not the greatest especialy at night.(BTW tey are open until 9pm Tu-Fr)
But it seems that that problem will soon be solved. I went there Sunday
for supplies and they informed me that by Nov. 10th thay would be in a
new store On Millburn Ave. in Millburn Center, a MUCH better area. I can
not wait to see there new store. They also assured me that their move
would not raise their prices.

Wine Rack    Flanders, NJ
     This is a liqour store that has a small corner of the store to use
to diplay Homebrewing suplies. The selection is very small and the
prices are very high. Unless you live in the area don't waste your time
going there.

Barnegat Bay Brewing Co.   Toms River, NJ
     This store has a nice selection and the prices are average(Some
high, some low) and the people were pretty helpfull and friendly. I have
only been to this store once(It is in South Jersey and I live in North
Jersey) so I don't have much to say about it. I probaly won't have an
oppurtunity to get back to this one until the summer when I hit the
beach.

Red Bank Brewing Supply    Red Bank, NJ
     This shop is a good one but it is also quit aways from my house in
North Jersey but it is a pretty good one. They have an above average
selection and their prices are decent. The staff seems to be helpfull
and friendly. We travels have me going to the Red Bank area on occasion
and if I need something while there I always stop in.

So far it seems that U-Brew is my winner for many reason.

Well that is what I have so far. All of these store's phone numbers and
adresses are in the most recent issue of Zymurgy so please post or
e-mail anything that you may have feeling about these or other NJ stores
Thanks a lot!!

BTW no affiliation with any of the stores in NJ; Just looking for info.

Oh yeah  HOPPY BREWING!  ;-)  !

TIA,
  Dennis

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Date: 25 Oct 94 18:51:43 EDT
From: "Mark A. Melton" <75452.277 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Using corn (maize)

Lowell Hart asked about using corn (maize) and rice in brewing. I've had some
experience using corn. 
	1. Cornstarch, 1 lb. Use with NO LESS than 4 lbs. 6-row malt;
		be sure to do a starch test during the mash to make cer-
		tain all the starch is converted, otherwise a stuck sparge
		is sure to result.
	2. Corn grits, yellow or white. Must be boiled for a couple of
hours to a mush.
	3. Masa or masa harina, nixtamal, corn tortillas:  no no no!!!
		Processed in caustic solution and have distinctive odor 
		you probably don't want.
	4. Whole grain: try your organic foods store and see if they have
bulk popcorn. This can be sprouted (malted) and dried then 		 ground
like malt. I would use the same proportions as in 		#1 as I doubt if
it would have enough enzymes to convert 		itself. It can also be
roasted for additional flavor a la 		tezwin or tesquin.
	5. Cornflakes: probably no no --look at the ingredients and if
there is only corn and salt then it might be OK, but very
expensive.

  


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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 22:29:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: kelly williams <kwilliam at potlatch.esd112.wednet.edu>
Subject: Malt instead of Corn Sugar?

In the bottling stage instead of using corn sugar, you can use malt....
How much malt do you use? and what procedure do you use to 
introduce that to the bottling stage. Any reply would be greatly 
appreciated.

Kwilliams at potlatch.wednet.esd112.edu

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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 22:38:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: clayglen at netcom.com (Clay Glenn)
Subject: HBD Hardcopy Edition

Cyber Age Publishing is an Internet access provider with a twist. 
We provide access to selected Internet features via hardcopy
medium.  By collecting, compiling, organizing, and condensing
specialized information and distributing it on the printed page,
we make these features more accessible, easier to use, and easier
to archive than the original on-line source for many users.

For several years, the Homebrew Digest has been a vital resource
to home brewers around the world for information on equipment,
ingredients, technique and general appreciation for the home
brewing hobby.  It has been an important forum for the exchange
of ideas and opinions about beer and the world of brewing.  Until
now, access to this versatile arena of knowledge has been limited
to computer users with Internet electronic mail access.

Cyber Age Publishing is now market testing the Hardcopy Edition
of The Homebrew Digest.  A full month of the Digests are compiled
with a full Table of Contents and cross-referenced with a
detailed Index.  A few "extras" like FAQ files and other special
"bonus" features are thrown in for good measure and printed in a
spiral bound "lay flat" format of over 150 pages.

For more details about the Homebrew Digest Hardcopy Edition,
please reply directly via e-mail, or write to the publisher:
          Cyber Age Publishing
          1835 Newport Boulevard, G182 #263-HBD
          Costa Mesa, California  92627

Thanks for reading and happy brewing!

Clay Glenn, Editor

- -- 
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\      O 
 >>>  Clay Glenn    clayglen at netcom.com  >>>    /|\
///////////////////////////////////////////     /'\

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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 02:46:35 -0400
From: Gorman at aol.com
Subject: CAMRA Real Beer(?) Guide

I've meant to send for the CAMRA Real Beer Guide(?) for a long time.Now I
find that I'm headed to London on business this weekend and I don't have it.

Advice via private email on where to buy this book in: (1) Washington, DC,
(2) Heathrow Airport, (3) central London, (4) anywhere, is tremendously
appreciated.

Any other UK beer guide advice is also appreciated.

Thanks,

Bill Gorman
gorman at aol.com

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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 11:30:53 +0000
From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167)
Subject: Re: Pale Ale Hops


In HBD 1562, mlm01 at intgp1.att.com (Michael L Montgomery +1 708 979 4132)
wrote:
> 
> [Cut for brevity]
> Is there an unwritten rule that an India Pale Ale has to have English
> Hops?
 
     The only thing that I would say is that IPA is an English category
of beer and maybe that is the reason for the judging criteria. In saying
that, however, the various UK breweries that currently list an IPA use
a variety of hopes including some European. The majority do use typically
English hops though, such as Fuggles, Goldings and WGV.
 
Cheers,
     Brian


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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 09:39:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Wits and decoctions

BrewerLee at aol.com writes:
> Subject: Wit beer synopsis
> 
>wheat needs to be pre-cooked.  I suggest that you do pre-cook the wheat in
>order 
>to insure gelatinization as the wheat must be included in the mash for a
>protein 
>rest and it is doubtful that the gelatinization would be complete at those
>low 
>temperatures in the time alloted for the rest.
> 
> The Mash:
> 
>A decoction mash would be the traditional method for this style.  Include in
>your 
>mash schedule a 45 minute protein rest at a temperature between 117-126 deg
>F.  

Hoegaarden Wit is not made with a decoction mash.  I have direct info from
a brewer there, this is a misconception.  Also, the claim that raw wheat
needs to be gelatinizied is not correct.  My first Wit did this and was
a disaster.  My second employed multiple protein rests and lautered fine,
as well as yielded the correct extract.  I would also start with 1g/litre
of corriander and work up from there.

Jim Busch

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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 94 09:54:57 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Re: Wit beer synopsis

Good summary, Lee.  I have a couple of points of minor disagreement
(so what's new?-)

BrewerLee at aol.com wrote about Wit beer synopsis: 
 > I have not been able to find two sources that agree on the
 > gelatinization temperature of wheat nor whether the wheat needs to
 > be pre-cooked.

My experience is that the wheat does not have to be precooked.  This
based on three batches.  In the first batch I cooked the wheat.  In
the other two I did not.  I didn't see any appreciable difference in
extraction rates between the batches.  If anything, the batch with
precooked wheat had a slightly lower rate (but was also earlier in my
"experience curve").

 > Yeast:

 > Yeast Labs, WYeast, BrewTek and probably others have specific
 > strains for Wit Beers. The one from BrewTek has been highly
 > recommended.

I have to disagree.  Dan McConnell & I did a "Wit Ola", where we split
a 15 gallon batch into 5 3-gallon fermenters and pitched 5 yeasts.
The BrewTek yeast produced a nice, but a bit bland, result.  Our
favorite when fresh was the "Blanche de Bruges" yeast (which is now
the YeastLab strain).  However, after some bottle time, we now prefer
yeast from Dentergems (Riva Blanche).  I don't know if there's a
commercial source for this yeast, although I bet you could get it from
Yeast Culture Kit Company (i.e., Dan).  (Disclaimer: I have no
financial interest in either YeastLab or YCKC, but Dan is a good
friend of mine.)

=Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI

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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 10:23:15 -0400
From: gramps at interlog.com (Glenn Anderson)
Subject: re: Not to style & winning homebrew contests ..

Chris says:
>From: Chris Lyons <Chris.Lyons at analog.com>
>Subject: Not to style & winning homebrew contests ...
>Regarding the topic of people winning homebrew competitions by
>entering brews not to style ...
>
>I had an interesting conversation with a BJCP certified judge
>in which he mentioned, that in general, you have to accentuate
>the ingredients in your brew in order to win a competition.
>He gave as an example, using a significantly greater amount
>of hops in a pale ale.  The reasoning ... you need to make
>you beer stand out from the rest of the crowd.  Apparently the
>judges will taste several different beers (especially in the pale
>ale category), and you need to do something to make your's stand
>out.

You know, I'd have to agree with this statement. Last spring I entered
5 different styles to the Canadian Amateur Brewing Assoc. spring
competition, with the intention that the BJCP judges would need 
"a little extra" in each of the styles to make them stand out from the
other excellent beers they were evaluating. All of the beers rated in the
30's, which I was reasonably satisfied with, but on the comment sheets
all of the beers had comments stating they were either "slightly too hoppy
for style" or "slightly too malty for style". I would guess that at a
thumbnail I had increased flavor (mid/finish hops and aromatic malts) by
about 10% without
increasing OG or IBU significantly. The judges response: "try cutting back
about 
10%!.....

Caveat Brewor...

Glenn Anderson
Manager, Telecommunications Facilities, BCS
Sun Life Of Canada
EMAIL: GRAMPS at INTERLOG.COM


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Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 13:07:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sean Lamb <SLAMB at lrlmccer.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject: What I saw in the Houtson A-B hop room

steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil (Steve Zabarnick) wrote in HBD 1558:


>A friend of mine works for a major US hop broker and importer. This company
>sells hops to the major brewers as well as many of the micros. He has told
>me that Anheuser-Busch puchases large quantities of Cascades and uses them
>along with a variety of other hops in beers such as Budweiser.

Our homebrew club had a tour of the Houston A-B beer factory in late August 
of this year.  I saw the following types of hops in the hop room (per 
the labels on the walls behind the bales):

Hallertauer
Hersbrucker
Tettnanger
Cascade
Yakima
Willamette
Banner
Alsace
Saaz
"Special" Saaz
Spalt
Lublin
Jura
Aquila

We also saw cans of hop extract in on the brewhouse floor. 
 As our guide said "Auggie Busch ("the first", I suppose) is 
spinning in his grave".
Sean Lamb  --   slamb at lrlmccer.jsc.nasa.gov -- Houston, TX

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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 09:01:45 -0600
From: John Adams <j_adams at hpfcjca.sde.hp.com>
Subject: Re: labels

I use regular bonded paper in either color laser/deskjet printer.  I 
recommend using a glue stick to adhere the label to the bottle.  It's easy to 
apply and comes of very easy with a quick soak in the sink of warm water.

You can also use milk (yes milk).  Use a paint brush and *lighty* paint
the label with the milk.  Once it drys it works great and is also easily 
removed.  

There are two disadvantages with milk.  You might get the label too wet when 
you apply the milk and the label will wrinkle somewhat (that's why you must 
*lightly* apply the milk).  

It also does have the immediate bond the glue stick has.  I use a rubberband to 
hold the label in place until the milk drys.


John Adams

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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 10:12:36 -0400
From: davidc at interaccess.com (David Cutkosky)
Subject: Mashing (Un)malted Wheat

I want to do an all grain wheat beer this weekend. Being new to all grain
beers, I have a couple of questions about using wheat as part of my grain
bill. The setup I currently have is the Gott cooler with copper manifold. I
have done several single step infusion mashes and have been quite pleased.

The questions are: What is the difference between unmalted wheat and wheat
malt? Does each require a different process? Do I need to add an extra
step(s) when mashing wheat with ~50% American 2-row malt? I have seen
references to having the wheat pre-cooked before mixing in with your mash.
What is the method for pre-cooking wheat? Can I just grind the wheat with my
2-row malt and crystal and hold at ~155 *F and wait for conversion? Is this
a bad idea?

Any help would be appreciated.

- --                              
David                           
                                Dammit Jim, I'm a homebrewer
davidc at interaccess.com                 not a doctor!
                               


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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 94 11:16:44 EDT
From: Nancy.Renner at um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Bread suggestions from a pro

(From *Jeff* Renner) 
 
After several questions again about bread from spent grains, I suppose that 
as resident professional bread baker, it is my duty to make suggestions.  I 
hope the interest in general enough to justify the bandwidth.  I really 
don't like to use spent grains, myself.  The husks are really not very 
easily chewed, being largely cellulose.  But if you must, here are some 
ideas.  jc (ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com) is right in that bread making 
isn't rocket science, or even brewing.  However, a little more attention to 
precision than he recommends is perhaps prudent. 
 
His recipe: 
>3c white flour 
>1c wheat flour 
>2c brew grains (or so) 
>1/2c sugar 
>1 1/2c of warm H20 
>yeast 
  
>make a yeast starter. 
>while that is frothing away, mix flour and crap together. 
>add yeast/h20 to flour.  kneed.  you may have to add more 
>flour to make it right.  (i'm guessing on the amts here). 
>BAKE for 40mins at 375; put tin foil over the top of the loaf 
>for the last 15 mins or so. 
 
jc has left out an important ingredient - salt.  That is like hops in beer.  
He has also neglected to specify how much yeast, and for my taste, 1/2 c. of 
sugar would make exceedingly sweet bread, and would also result in rapid 
browning, which is why he has to cover the top at the end of the bake. 
 
Here is a basic bread recipe that I teach in bread baking class (makes two 
big loaves).  When students master the basic recipe, they substitute all 
kinds of stuff like potatoes, cheese, nuts, jalapenos, oatmeal, etc. 
 
~2-1/2 lb any flour or mix of flours (6-8 cups depending on your hand) 
3 c liquid 
1 T salt 
1-2 pkts yeast ( at 1/4 oz.) 3/4 T = 1/4 oz.(less = more flavor but slower) 
(looks like Reinheitsgebot, doesn't it?) 
 
Optional: 
Up to 1/4 c sweetener for unsweet bread, up to 3/4 c for sweet.  1/4 c malt 
or honey would be nice for a spent grains bread. 
Up to 1/4 c oil or fat for lean bread, more for rich one. 
 
Other ingredients can be substituted or added.  Example, drained spent 
grains would both substitute (for part of the liquid) and add (the dry 
portion, assuming none of that would act like flour).  You'd have to 
estimate how much liquid was in your grains and reduce the amount in the 
recipe accordingly.  I'd start with 3 c drained, fluffy, spent grain and 
reduce water maybe 1/4 cup. High protein (such as bread) flours and high 
fiber (whole grain) flours need more water than white all purpose.  These 
proportions are about right for bread flour and/or a portion of whole wheat. 
 
Rehydrate the yeast in 1/4 cup water (105-115^F) with 1/2 t sugar for 
osmotic purposes (yields ~10% more viable rehydrated yeast cells). 
 
Add salt to balance of water (room temp).  Add all ingredients except half 
of flour to a bowl, stir until fairly smooth.  Stir in ~half of remaining 
flour until too stiff to easily stir.  Flour your work surface and dump 
dough onto it,  Knead up to eight minutes, adding more flour as needed, but 
don't add too much.  You want a smooth, not stiff dough (should feel like 
your earlobe when done, or a baby's bottom). 
 
Let double covered in bowl at least once (twice is optional for more flavor, 
punch down between ).  Shape into two loaves (5x9 pan)  Put into greased 
pan, cover, let double.  Bake 375 35-40 minutes.  Remove from pans and cool 
on rack.  E-mail me a slice, or at least your results. 
 
Jeff in Ann Arbor c/o nerenner at umich.edu 

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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 94 11:18:18 EDT
From: Nancy.Renner at um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Labels

(From *Jeff* Renner 
 
Peter Hadikin wants a source of gummed labels to run through a laser 
printer.  I thought that my private e-mail answer to him might be of general 
interest: 
 
Peter - The answer to your label problem isn't gummed labels, but a much 
simpler one - milk!  Actually, skimmed milk is best.  It makes a great 
label glue for plain paper.  Just dab some on the back of a plain paper 
label, or even dip the whole thing.  Then put it on the bottle and smooth it 
out.  When it dries, you have a beautifully applied label at low cost.  To 
remove, just soak briefly in (warm) water.  Of course, they'll also come off 
if you cool the bottles in ice/water.  Skimmed milk is best because the fat 
in whole milk could make the paper translucent. 
 
Jeff in Ann Arbor c/o nerenner at umich.edu

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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 11:27:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: /R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/ at mr.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: steam, orange bags

I'm planning on doing an all grain steam beer this weekend.  I'll be using
D-C Lager malt.  Does anyone have any suggestions on what type of mash
schedule I should use (i.e., decoction, infusion, step infusion?)

Has anyone thought of using that plastic orange mesh that oranges come
in as a cone or plug hop bag for dry hopping?  Does anyone know if
this plastic is alcohol resistant and color-fast?

TIA,
Andy KLigerman
(alternate e-mail address: homebre973 at aol.com


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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 08:53:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Baier <BAIER_T at SALT.PLU.EDU>
Subject: AHA Contest Rules / Conflicts of Interest

Pity me.  I am VP of a WINE (and beer) club.

In my ongoing efforts to get appropriate respect for our
brewing brethren, I have recently had the following
altercation:

We sponsor a relatively large (250+ entries) AHA SCP each
year at the Western Washington Fair.  Wineguys are asking
that we exclude from judging anyone who has entered any
beer in the competition, regardless of categories judged
or entered.  They say it 'looks bad'.

My position is that we can (and do) insure that no judge 
will evaluate beers in a category he has entered, and that
excluding judges would diminish the number of entries by 
20% (guess).  

Can anyone provide AHA or BJCP actual written guidelines
on this issue?  How about a whole slew of opinions from
more experienced contest-organizers?  Any help gratefully
accepted.

BTW - cows go absolutely nuts over spent/mashed grain.
It's the ultimate in recycling.

Tom Baier - Tacoma, WA - BAIER_T at SALT.PLU.EDU


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Date:         Wed, 26 Oct 94  12:23:49 EDT
From: Greg Niznik <GENIZN01 at ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      hop sources

Graduate Student
Phone: 852-5756

This may be redundant, but could someone please give the addressess,
phone numbers of the mail order companies you have been talking
about. This would be especially nice for the hop suppliers that
have been discussed recently.

In addition, does anyone have a good recepie for smoke beer?
I'm really new to this game, so an extract recepie would be
appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Greg


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Date:        Wed, 26 Oct 94 12:26:28 EST
From: RICH LAPMAN <RLAPHAM at MUSIC.FERRIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: SUBSCRIPTION STATUS (October 2 6, 1994)

PLEASE TAKE MY NAME OFF YOUR LIST.


                       THANK YOU,
                       RICH LAPHAM

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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 94 10:46:19 PST
From: "Jim Robinson" <Jim_Robinson at ccmailsmtp.ast.com>
Subject: Coleman Pt II



Gary, Gary, Gary.  What are you talking about?  Referring to a 
cooler as a puddle of slag is a bit extreme eh?  I suppose in the 
middle of mash #23 it just melted down huh?? "Help!!  I'm 
drowning in boiling hot barley water".  Seriously, I'm just 
kidding and I appreciate your feedback.  I noticed you did not 
specify which Coleman model you were using.  The Standard model 
(El-Cheapo) is a poor candidate for a mashing vessel.  The 
Industrial Model, which in fact is the one I have been talking 
about, is MUCH nicer.  I think you may have the Standard model 
because you comment on the insulation being pulled apart.  The 
only way you could see the insulation on the Industrial model is 
to cut this unit in half.  The liner is bonded into the plastic.  
What shape is yours anyway?  Round or Cube? 

Another data point is cost.  If it is proved that the Coleman is 
good for only about "more than 20 mashes" as you state, then it's 
good for about 125 gallons of beer.  This is about what I brew in 
3+ years (Yes, as a matter of fact I do have 2 small children, 
how'd ya guess?).  At $22.95 I can buy 2 for the price of the 
Gott, and have enough pocket change for a sixer of Celis White 
(Yummy).

At any rate, I think there is enough interest in this issue for 
me to make the ultimate sacrifice.  I certainly don't have time 
to do 16 batches in the next week or so, so I will try a little 
experiment.  I'm going to put 150-170 degree hot water in my 
Coleman CONTINUOUSLY for the next 48 hours!!!! 

Hey Gary, Can you say "Slag Puddle"!!  See ya in a couple o' 
days.

Jim 

 

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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 13:50:50 -0400
From: gramps at interlog.com (Glenn Anderson)
Subject: Briess 2 row specs

I received the spec sheet for Briess 2 Row malt today and thought I'd post
it for those interested. I usually use Canada Malting 2 row and for
comparison I will include relevant numbers in parenthesis next to the Briess
numbers.

Analytical Specifications:

Growth: 95+
Glassy/Half Glassy/Mealy: 1% / 4% / 95%
Plump: 80% minimum
Thin: 2% maximum
Moisture: 4.0% (3.9%)
Extract, f.g., d.b.: 80.5% minimum (78.5%)
Extract, coarse/fine diff: 1.8% maximum (1.4%)
Color: 1.8L (1.76L)
Diastatic Power: 140 Lintner (120 Lintner)
Alpha Amalyse, D.U.: 46 (50.9)
Total Protein d.b.:12.0-12.5% (10.9%)
S/T Protein: 44% (45.7%)
Grain Blend: Harrington, Klages and Crystal (Harrington and Manley)

As you can see the difference between the Briess malt and the Canada Malting
malt
is fairly insubstantial (IMO). The only real differences that I can see are
the grain variety blends, the extra Diastatic power (although CM is higher
in AA) and the extra
~2% proteins.

The cost is about double for Briess malt vs. Canada Malting malt. I would be
interested if anyone could indicate why I would want to spend the extra
money on the Briess 2 row. The vendor states that "70% of those surveyed us
Briess..." and 96% of the gold, silver and bronze awards at the GABF are
awarded to breweries that use Briess".

 ....Glenn
 

Glenn Anderson
Manager, Telecommunications Facilities, BCS
Sun Life Of Canada
EMAIL: GRAMPS at INTERLOG.COM


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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 11:10:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fred Waltman <waltman at netcom.com>
Subject: Sam Houston vs. Sam Adams


Bruce DeBolt tells us about the battle between Waterloo Brewing and BBC:

I remember reading somewhere (can't remember) that Mr Koch had 
trademarked the names of many historical figures as beer names. I had 
figured that they were probably Revolutionary era people, but obviously 
his reach is farther.

One point in Jim Kochs favor. Every time I went by the BBC booth at the
GABF he was there pouring beers and chatting with people. Didn't see any
other "names" doing that. Did anybody else? 

Out of curiosity, does anybody know when a persons name and likeness goes 
into the public domain? I would assume I would get a sharp response if I 
started selling "Elvis Beer."

One last point, the SA Triple Bock served at the GABF had been aged in 
the barrel for year. It tasted much better than the stuff in the bottles.

Fred Waltman
Culver City Home Brewing Supply Co.
waltman at netcom.com




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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 12:10:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: "A. Sturdivant \"Sturdy\" McKee" <sturdy at itsa.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Bread Recipe

I was recently inspired by Redhook's Spent Grain Bread to try some of my 
own.  This coincides nicely with Aaron's request for a spent grain 
recipe.  

1 to 1 1/2 cups spent grain
1 egg
1 c sugar
1 c milk
1/2 c warm water
bread yeast
all purpose flour

Mix the milk, water, sugar, egg and yeast in a large bowl.  Add spent 
grain and mix well.  Begin adding flour 1 c at a time until you end up 
with a dough consistency you can knead (about 6-7c).  Knead once.  
Seperate into two.  Place in slightly greased bread pans and let rise 
about one hour or until bread is about 1/2 inch above pan top.  Bake at 
375F for 45 minutes.  Makes a fairly heavy brown bread.

Make sure to use bread yeast (dry active) to minimize your rising time.  
I tried this the first time with a starter and it took way too long to 
rise.  It also turned out too heavy.  Bread yeast worked much better, 
giving a nice heavy bread, but not a door stop.

Holiday ideas are add cinnamon, nutmeg, cardamon or anything else.  
Substitute honey for some of the sugar if you like.  Toss in some extra 
sugar with your spices to make a nice sweet breakfast toast.

Good luck,

Sturdy

P.S.  Oh yeah...  Hoppy brewing!

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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 94 14:27:06 -0500
From: "Jeff M. Michalski, MD" <michalski_jm at rophys.wustl.edu>
Subject: Wheat in a Wit

Yesterday, Lee Bussy presented a great synopsis on his
 search for the ideal Wit Biere recipe.  He said he was
 unable to find any definite description on the 
 gelatinization of the unmalted wheat.  In Phil Seitz's
 summary on brewing Belgian ales nothing is said about
 gelatinization.  The description of the Wit biere 
 mash in that series suggests a long protein rest but
 no mention of cooking the wheat before the mash is made.

I have found hard winter wheat in a local specialty 
grocery store for less than $1/lb.  I was tempted to 
try this stuff but the gelatinization step is not clear 
to me.  I would like to avoid buying wheat flakes at 
$2/lb at a homebrew shop but would consider it if the 
gelatinization of raw wheat is a pain in the neck.  

Does anyone have any experience in the cooking/gelatinization 
of raw wheat prior to a Wit biere mash?  
Is this necessary or will a find grind suffice?  
If it is necessary, how is it done?

TIA
JEFF M. MICHALSKI
michalski_jm at rophys.wustl.edu


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Date:         Wed, 26 Oct 94 14:06:24 CDT
From: LBRISTOL at SYSUBMC.BMC.COM
Subject:      Jim Koch saga continues...

As quoted from Southwest Brewing News (SWBN):

> They recommended that the Austin publican stop calling his beer Sam
> Houston's Austin Lager, given that further use will constitute 'intent'.


I don't know what them damnyankees up in Boston(ptui) may think is proper,
but I can guarantee you that no judge here in the Great State o' Texas is
going to let no damnyankee get away this horsehockey.  We don't cotton
to no damnyankee messin' around with one of the good ol' boys.  I ain't
never liked none of that "Boston(ptui) Lager" no how!

We just might have to get us a rope and learn this here Jim Koch feller a
lesson!  Don't you go messin' with Texas, you hear, boy?

- --------------------------------------------------------
|  Larry Bristol    |           DON'T PANIC!           |
|  SYSUBMC.BMC.COM  |  A true Hitchhiker always knows  |
|  (713)918-7802    |        where his towel is.       |
- --------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 94 14:46:11 -0500
From: ray_gaffield at il.us.swissbank.com (Ray Gaffield)
Subject: grain mill question


I am trying to decide on a grain mill to purchase and I have narrowed  
down my search to the MaltMill(tm) products , partly because of local  
availabilty. It seems that alot of people, according to my local  
suppliers, are quite happy with the fixed (non-adjustable) model and  
even recommend it for beginner grain brewers. 


What I would like to know is: will I eventually "outgrow" this mill  
i.e. will I need an adjustable mill later as I get more ambitious  
with grain brewing ? 


Thanx,
	Ray Gaffield
	Swiss Bank Corporation, Chicago.

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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 16:02 EST
From: RON.admin at admin.creol.ucf.edu (RON)
Subject: 1st place at Dixie Cup

Not to gloat but i took a 1st and 2nd in Texas Dark California 
Brown something category at this years Dixie Cup.  Someone 
told me that winning a 1st at Dixe Cup gets me a bye to the 2nd 
round in the National Competition.  All categories??? Could 
someone please verify this for me.
p.s.- wasn't thrilled with the 1st place 11oz glass mug compared
to last years steins or Bluebonnets steins!
ron at laser.creol.ucf.edu


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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 94 14:54:33 CST  
From: "David Sapsis" <dbsapsis at nature.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: National Judging/ Coleman Coolers

Spencer, Chris, and Ullick (and others) have adressed the "appropriate for
style" element in judging, and an apparent lack of conformity in the recent
national competition.  All raise interesting points as to where the problem
lies.  Let me add a few thoughts.

Those of us that have been involved in judging know it isn't all that easy.
Particularly when you are faced with comparing wide styles/substyles and any
time the number of entries is greater than about 6.  The comments regarding
pallate decay are quite valid.  Stronger, more assertive beers tend to
dominate because they do stand out.  However, I believe it is up to the
judge to determine the bounds of the style, and stand by those bounds to the
level as is in concordance with the judging format.  That is, when a beer is
good, mark it as such, and even though good but out of style, mark it down
as such.  In the standard 50 pt. scheme, I feel that, for instance, 1070
beers in the Scottish category would be perceptible as deviating from style
in all point groups except appearance.  Ultimately, it is up to judge to
independently assess to what degree to mark down deviations from style.

However, overall quality of the beer vs. appropriateness to style are double
edged swords -- i.e., at what point do you stop worrying about whether this
copper colored beer is just too dark to be an IPA ("geez, I thought all
IPA's were blond...") and taste how good a beer it seems.  In the AHA's
never ending schisms of categories, some styles are becoming so anally
defined as to loose the practical reason a lot of us homebrew: to revel in
diversity.  And the problem is a lot of judges get swept up in it.  Now, not
all styles suffer from this problem.  Some are naturally more restrictive
than others, e.g., Bohemian Pilsner vs. Stout.  However, even within stout
the substyles may span an enormous range, but there is little widely
excepted criteria for sub-styles.  The problem is compounded by a wide range
of examples used for comparison.  For example, one person may judge dry
stout based on its approximation of draft Guinness, another as it compares to
bottled Guinness, and a third to Full Sail's Mainsail stout.  All are good
examples of dry stouts, but taste very different.

I discourage the suggestion that one brew particularly a certain way to gain
advantage in competitions -- at least as long as it deviates from your own
liking.  To me, this practice appears disengenuous, not unlike participating
in political activism based on peer considerations as opposed to genuine
beliefs.  The problem of session beers not getting their fair share should
be addressed not by brewing faux-sessions, but developing judges capable of
determining some appropriate level of faulting due to deviations from
accepted style guidlines.

One clear avenue toward this end is to limit the
number of samples a single judge has to evaluate at a sitting.  It is
impossible to give quality impressions on 12 barleywines at once, and the
BJCP needs to recognize this.  Also, judges need to be able to
differentiate 1070 beers from 1045 beers, and not go hog wild after a series
of neutral samples on one with big flavor, unless of course the style
suggests big flavor.  I have found that quick evaluation and very limited
volume of sampling goes a long way in aiding my determinations.  That is, I
try to quickly evaluate the overall the gestalt of the beer and its relative
appropriateness, and give it a ballpark total score -- I do not first
systematically fill out each little compartment.  I think that tends to
dillute the original, and often most accurate sense of the beers worth.  I
then fill in the compartments, tally up and compare it to my original score.
Where they deviate I generally favor my original impression.  One problem
with getting to analytical is that you tend to confuse yourself, and in an
attempt to clarify, all you do is drink more, thus further diluting your
pallate.

Say I'm judging in a category, and I run across an excellent beer that
appears clearly out of style.  My score for the beer is say 34, but would
have been 40-42 in its proper category.  Does this beer win a ribbon?
Well that depends on the quality of the other beers its being compared to.
Really any competition is more a relational test (which is best?), more than
an absolute one (which are good?).  So I guess what I'm saying is that I
view deviations from style as worth about 5-7 points demerit.  Maybe we
should start a discussion as to finding some acceptably agreed upon amount.

Last year I entered nationals for the first time (after brewing for 11
years).  I entered what I though was the best beer I had made all year -- a
Russian Imperial Stout (og 1093).  It recieved what I thought were fair score:
mean of
39 I think.  However, all three judges felt it was not an Imperial, but
rather a Foreign style Stout.  It did not advance.  I can only hope that
their percieved deviations from style were included in the scoring, and that
when compared to others just did not add up.  There is simply no other way
to address the problem of percieved inaapropriateness.  The fact that it was
percieved as innapropriate is a whole different matter, and I believe speaks
to both proceedure (ie, pallate fatigue) as well as training emphasis on style
guidlines over sensory evaluation that is wholesale evident in the BJCP.

In any event, I believe that the issue needs to be adddressed on both the
procedural and evaluation fronts, and this dialogue is a good begining.

********
Gary wrote about the Coleman Coolers not lasting.  I have used these since
1987, and am on my third one.  On average they last about 70 mashes (for me)
before significant delamination from the foam.  Maybe not all Coleman's are
created equal.  Just one datum.

- --dave

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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 94 18:09:05 EDT
From: Mark Gryska <mark at vicorp.com>
Subject: Blonde/Golden Ale

In HOMEBREW Digest #1562 Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu writes:

> Does anyone know what a "Blonde Ale" is supposed to be?  And why can't
> anyone brew it???

You can find a description of Blonde/Golden Ale in Ekhardt's Beer Style
Guide. My impression of this style is that it is very much like an
Extra Special Bitter but lighter in color, higher carbonation and
hopped with American rather than British or Continental Hops. (My
personal preference is for Cascades.) Anyone can brew this style. If
going all grain you might use a North American pale malt like Harrington
or Klages but no reason you shouldn't use Munton Fison or Dewolf Cosyns
pale malt. I would also add a bit of light crystal, cara-crystal,
cara-munich or cara-vienna for added body, color (not too dark!)
and complexity. Perform a standard infusion or step infusion mash. (The
mash schedules appearing in recent HBD's seem perfectly reasonable.) If
making an extract brew use a pale extract like Alexanders plus some of
the aforementioned special malts. Keep the hops at a conservative
level, say 20-25 ibu as not to overwhelm the malt character and there
you have it. Let us know how it turns out!
					- mg

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1563, 10/27/94