FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Even though you use a goofy username....hops (uswlsrap)
  HBD various subjects (John Farver)
  WIVES AND BEER (aaron.banerjee)
  New brewpub in Sunnyvale, CA (Bart Thielges)
  survey's over (James Clark)
  Viva' Las Vegas! (Jeff Wade)
  Re: Large Keg Rings (Ed Westemeier)
  A-B and hops (Alan_Marshall)
  William Large Keg Rings (Bob_McIlvaine)
  grains/bread (RONALD DWELLE)
  Strawberry beer and cloudiness (Eugene Sonn)
  Pressure Cooker Odor (Terry Terfinko)
  Blond/Golden Ale Bitterness (Mark Gryska)
  Blonde/Golden Ale (Geoffrey Talvola)
  Re: Sam Houston vs. Sam Adams (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist))
  Re: Blonde/Golden Ale (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist))
  Using milk for labels (Willits)
  Re: Using corn (maize) (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Sam Houston vs. Sam Adams (Gary Bell)
  Re: Mashing (Un)malted Wheat (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  re: HBD Hardcopy (brewing chemist Mitch)
  NJ Homebrew Shops ("Olesko, Ron")
  selling the HBD (Jeff Frane)
  wanted to buy/rent (Wash. DC area): roller mill (Dave Coombs)
  Info for New Brewers and Miscellany ("Palmer.John")
  re:glass air locks (Greg Demkowicz)
  Sankey Keg on side (kr_roberson)
  Kriek, sent WP file, will try again, 2 ways (RLANCASTER)
  rousing yeast ("Dulisse, Brian")
  Another Pub Request/Heather (Schinelli, Capt Bruce)
  data on beer drinkers (Segolene Badelon)
  Hard Copy Sounds Fishy (David Draper)
  Advertising on the HBD (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Re: Are AHA guidelines a joke?/Starting a Pilsner/DMS?/Small kettle/rousing (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  DMS (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 26 Oct 94 18:58:49 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: Even though you use a goofy username....hops                     

- -------------------- Mail Item Text Follows ------------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino
      Research Analyst
Subject: Even though you use a goofy username....hops

"Officer Ron" wants to know about hops for his pils:

Don't worry--AAUs and HBUs are the same thing. Now, IBUs to AAUs _does_
require a conversion. IBUs are a measure of bitterness; AAU (or HBU) is simply
weight * alpha.

Therefore, to get 15 HBUs (or AAUs) of Saaz, you'll need 3 ounces if the alpha
is 5% and 5 ounces if your Saaz are 3%. (That's not such an unusual range. I
happen to have both pellets and plugs in my freezer, and the Saaz plugs were
measured at packaging to be 3.1%; the pellets happen to be over 5%.) You can
see why a recipe that simply specifies using x ounces of y variety without
giving the alpha acid % isn't very useful. That's going to decline with age and
exposure to air and poor storage, but knowing where they started is better than
complete ignorance, and you can guess whether you need to add more based on
your knowledge of how they've been stored.

IBUs are different. Say your pils calls for 45 IBUs (the upper range on the AHA
style chart) and you want to know how many ounces of hops at a particular AA%
to use.

Use the formula AAU = (IBU*V) / (U*3/4). (I know, the 3/4 isn't exact,
but the error is a lot less than the error in utilisation)

You could rearrange the formula if you wanted to take the "known" 15 AAUs from
your recipe and wanted to know how many IBUs you could expect to get, but if
you're formulating your own recipe, you're going to start out aiming for a
target bitterness.

AAU is weight * alpha%; IBU is the bitterness you're aiming for; V is volume in
gallons; and U is utilisation (* 100; express as a percent rather than a
decimal). U is going to be the least precise number. (You may recall the thread
about whose numbers are right under what assumptions.)

The longer the boil (up to a certain point) and the lower the gravity of your
wort, the higher the utilisation. Use 25% for a starting figure (but that's
probably optimistic) for the hops you boil for an hour.  Remember also that if
you don't boil the full volume (and top off at the end), the gravity will be
higher and the utilisation lower. Charlie P.'s new book has a table to estimate
gravity based on pounds of extract per gallon of water. I think he also has (?)
a utilisation table based on boiling time and gravity. Utilisation for a 60
minute boil might be, say 20-25%. You might get only 10-15% for the hops that
are in for 30 minutes. The ones you use for finishing in the last 5 minutes or
so will make a negligible contribution to bitterness.

Now for your example.... IBU=45, V=5 gallons, U=25%

AAU = 45*5*4 / 25*3 = 12    That's less than the 15 in your recipe, but 25% is
probably optimistic, particularly if you're doing an extract brew and have to
account for the concentrated wort.  Use 20% instead of 25%, and you get those
15 AAUs suggested in your recipe.  If the recipe suggests adding all your hops
at once, you'll probably get a bitterness at the top of the AHA range (35-45).
If, however, your hop schedule calls for additions throughout the boil, you'll
need more than those 15 AAUs (assuming U=20%) to account for the lower
utilisation at the later additions.  OTOH, if U is "really" 25%, 15 AAUs might






be enough more than the 12 to compensate, but you'd have to calculate that for
yourself based on the intended boiling times for later additions. Redo the
formula to solve for IBU if you want to find out how much each addition of hops
contributes to bitterness.

Remember that in a homebrewing situation, none of this is going to be very
precise, but it should get you in the right ballpark (or hockey rink).

Hope this helps,

Bob Paolino
Disoriented in Badgerspace

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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 17:43:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Farver <bruticus at andes.pnw.net>
Subject: HBD various subjects

After browsing several issues, I decided to reply to some of the questions.
1.  I am from Yakima, Wa. and being a homebrewer here I can speak from
personal experience and having developed a friendship with the Hop King
(as we like to call him) at Hop Union USA, one of the more reputable
hop brokers.  Some brewers (big and small) come up and handpick the hops 
they want for the year and others take from the lot.  All hops are 
treated the same no matter who owns them.  If you receive bad hops, it is 
usually the result of your local supplier not paying attention to where 
they came from or poor storage practice after receiving them.  There are 
less reputable brokers in the area and while I wont mention any names 
here, the gold foil packs get most of the bad press where ever I go.  Hop 
Union USA takes great pride in their association with the microbrew 
industry and homebrewers alike.  Next time your in your favorite 
brewpub/micro ask the brewer if he uses HU hops and of his opinion, I 
think they will all back me up.
2.  Different AA ratings on the same hop variety- could be a different 
years crop, field or lot, region, storage in some cases and when 
pelletized whole hops lose approx 1%.  Just some possibilities.
3.  To Barry- don't give up on Steinbart based on the foil pack try a 
different brokers product, I beleive they use 2 others.
4.  Mike- some english hops have seeds but I think they are all sterile.
5.  Getting my hops fresh from the broker as I need them leaves me of the 
opinion that there is not that much difference in the aroma or flavor 
profile between whole and pellet.  I use mainly pellet because of ease of
cleanup in my system.  I dryhopped both ways and smelled no big difference.

I am not affiliated with Hop Union of Steinbarts in any other way than 
friend and customer.
                      John    email welcome,  bruticus at pnw.net

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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 94 21:21:06 
From: aaron.banerjee at his.com
Subject: WIVES AND BEER


 
I appriciate the message with regards to cleaning the stove after making beer. 
I have found that the sugar on the stove from the beer making supplies residue
attracts cockroaches which makes for unpleasant drinking environment.
                                               Mrs. Banerjee

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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 94 17:15:32 PDT
From: bart at nexgen.com (Bart Thielges)
Subject: New brewpub in Sunnyvale, CA

For you SF Bay area readers : There's a new brewpub scheduled to open this
fall in Sunnyvale near the Lawerence Expressway exit off of highway 101.
Its on Lakeside Dr. and I believe that it will be called The Faultline Brewing
Company.  I took a look today and I think that in the stage of construction
that they are at, they will be hard pressed to have a batch ready to serve
before winter.

[sorry for the extra traffic to you non-SF bay area folks]

Bart

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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 22:43:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: James Clark <jeclark at ucdavis.edu>
Subject: survey's over

thanks to everybody who helped out with the survey!  i collected the last 
surveys today and am working on the results.  sorry to those who didn't 
get a survey - my e-mail access has been pretty sketchy.  for those who 
asked for the results they should be ready in about a week and i will 
send them out.
thanks again.

- --james
  jeclark at ucdavis.edu


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Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 20:10:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Wade <jeffpolo at eskimo.com>
Subject: Viva' Las Vegas!

        A little all to late FYI for the Beer Hunters out there like myself!

I recently made a flight from the Seattle area (home of WAY to many Great 
micro-brews to mention) to Las Vegas, NV.  This may be old news already 
to some, but to those that love to hunt for good beer and a good time.... I 
present to you     HOLY COW casino,cafe,and most importantly BREWERY!
        The brewery, opening late 1993, enjoys a site on the LV strip and is 
the first brewery to become established in Vegas!  This brewery can be my 
version of heaven if it likes.... 24 hour beer, slots, great food, and 
$2.75 pints!  Holy Cow brewery offers three featured beers and one brewmasters 
speciality being Raspberry Weizen on my visit.  
        Pale ale: Amber color, malty fullness, fruity overtones.(Gold: english 
        pale category GABF)
        Wheat Beer: Traditional in style, refreshing!
        Red Ale:  Reddish copper hue, smooth maltiness(my favorite!)
        Rasp W:  Delightfully Malty, with an array of Raspberry flavors.
                        Reinheitsgebot in strict adherence.

Definately worth the visit when you are in Las Vegas.  This brewery is 
here to stay... sorry they don't bottle so you'all just better fill those 
pockets with cash, bring that lucky rabbits foot, and head on down to the
 Holy Cow Brewery!  
(not affiliated... but I wish I were!)  
        
Jeffpolo at Eskimo.com
	There is no BEER in Heaven, that is why we DRINK it here!

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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 08:35:20 +0500
From: ed.westemeier at sdrc.com (Ed Westemeier)
Subject: Re: Large Keg Rings

Phil Brushaber <pbrush at netcom.com> writes:

> No matter how often I change out that large ring on my kegs I still get 
> leaks. The product that Williams carries (you know the one for about 
> $5.50) claims to be larger in diameter and softer to assure a much better 
> seal. At five times the standard price, they are a rip off if they don't 
> help. On the other hand if they work, they're a bargain.
> 
> Any advice before I spring for these puppies?   -- Phil

When I went looking for replacement O-rings for some old 5-gallon kegs
a couple of years ago, I talked to the folks at Brewer's Resource
(Brew-Tek) in California. Jeff told me that there was a slight size
difference between pin-lock and ball-lock kegs (too slight to notice,
but significant).

They carry both, at the same price, and always ask you to specify which
type you want.

I don't have their 800 number handy, but I've been a very satisfied
customer for years (no other connection).

One other point: I've found that on my older kegs, the leak is more
often from the safety valve than the o-rings (particularly the ones
with the integral safety valve built right into the hatch cover).
Some of them have proven hopeless to try to fix, so those kegs have
been relegated to use as fermenters instead of beer containers.

Ed Westemeier, Cincinnati, Ohio
ed.westemeier at sdrc.com

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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 09:30:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Alan_Marshall <AK200032 at Sol.YorkU.CA>
Subject: A-B and hops

In HBD #1563, Sean Lamb writes about A-B's hops:

sl> Our homebrew club had a tour of the Houston A-B beer factory in late
sl> August of this year.  I saw the following types of hops in the hop
sl> room (per the labels on the walls behind the bales): 

<Impressive list snipped>

If you ever get a chance to See Michael Jackson on tour, do so.  He is 
really quite funny in a low keyed way.  At one point, when he starts 
talking about hops, he says, "You know all brewmasters are hopheads.  
I remember touring the Anhauser-Busch plant in St. Louis.  The 
brewmaster was showing me around.  The tour was quite ruotine until we 
got to the hoproom.  The brewmaster was becoming quite excite -- you 
could tell he loved the hops.  And there they were:  Yakimas and 
Cascades from Washington State;  Fuggles and East Kent Goldings from 
England;  Saaz from Czechoslovakia.  It must all be for show though... 
they don't use any in their beers!"


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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 94 09:50:08 EST
From: Bob_McIlvaine at keyfile.com
Subject: William Large Keg Rings

Phil talks about large keg gaskets in his post.

I assume he's talking about the bung gasket on
Cornelius kegs.

I've had this leakage problem in the past, but have
not had the problem since I started heating the
gasket just before I put it on the bung and then
immediately put about 20 or 30 lbs pressure on the
keg. This seats the soft (because it's warm) gasket
into both the keg and the bung giving a good seal.

I heat it by letting it sit in boiled water while I
prepare the keg and rack.

Mac

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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 94 10:06:03 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: grains/bread

     I throw the spent grains in the compost pile--works beautifully.
     
     I've tried to make bread twice, and both times the results were awful. 
     The husks in the grain make the bread much too coarse--it's like 
     eating a slice of bread that you dropped in the sand. Also--unlike all 
     other roughage known to mankind--beergrain bread will bind you up 
     something awful (YMMV).
     Ron Dwelle (dweller at gvsu.edu)

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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 10:13:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eugene Sonn <eugene at sccs.swarthmore.edu>
Subject: Strawberry beer and cloudiness

Howdy,
	Thanks to everyone who gave me advice in brewing my Strawberry 
Wheat beer.  The brew is great!  (I simply brewed an extract wheat beer 
and added 4 pounds of frozen strawberries after the boil but before 
cooling)  However, the beer is a bit on the cloudy side.  It's not the 
usual cloudiness you see in a bottle before all the yeast has settled 
out.  A friend suggested that since juices with strawberries are cloudy 
(unlike say apple juice) that this could be a function of the fruit.  
Does anyone have any experience with strawberry beers?  Should I be more 
patient and wait for it to clear or just drink up and enjoy?  Both?

Eugene
student, brewer and member of the Jim Koch (TM) hate mail club

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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 94 10:19:10 EDT
From: terfintt at ttown.apci.com (Terry Terfinko)
Subject: Pressure Cooker Odor

     Well after searching garage sales and flea markets all summer
I finally found that bargain pressure cooker for sterilizing my
yeast culturing equipment.  It is an old Sears probably vintage
1940-1950.  Now here is my problem.  There is a horrible odor
impregnated into this thing that I can't figure out how to get rid
of.  When I first opened the cooker I found a few accessories
inside one of which had a white rubber handle which was
deteriorated and carried this odor.  The cooker is a cast
aluminum design and I believe the aluminum has absorbed
some of the deteriorated rubber.  Here are some of the
things I have done to remove the odor all of which have failed.

1.)  Left it out in the sun
2.)  Heated via boiling, creating vented steam (the kitchen
      really stank here)
3.)  Filled with a mixture of No Rinse sanitizer and let sit for 2
      weeks. This left some deposits inside which appeared to be
      particles of the rubber compound.  Cleaned these and
      tried a boil, odor remains.

Any suggestions from the HBD would be appreciated.

Terry Terfinko - terfintt at ttown.apci.com

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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 94 10:23:13 EDT
From: Mark Gryska <mark at vicorp.com>
Subject: Blond/Golden Ale Bitterness

  Whoops, when I returned home the other night I looked up the
  description of Blond/Golden Ale in The Essentials of Beer Style by
  Fred Ekhardt and noted that the bitterness can go as high as 70 ibu.
  My apologies to the hop heads among us. Fred Ekhardt describes this
  beer style as a Pale Ale made from a lighter base malt such as
  Klages.
					- mg

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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 94 10:29:15 -0400
From: Geoffrey Talvola <gtalvola at bbn.com>
Subject: Blonde/Golden Ale

Mark Gryska <mark at vicorp.com> writes:
>In HOMEBREW Digest #1562 Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu writes:
>> Does anyone know what a "Blonde Ale" is supposed to be?  And why can't
>> anyone brew it???
>
>You can find a description of Blonde/Golden Ale in Ekhardt's Beer Style
>Guide. My impression of this style is that it is very much like an
>Extra Special Bitter but lighter in color, higher carbonation and
>hopped with American rather than British or Continental Hops. (My

What would be some commercial examples, then?  Here in New England,
Catamount Gold seems to fit the description (and is one of my
favorites, I might add), as does Harpoon Ale (also excellent on draft,
but mediocre in bottles).  Any others?

 - Geoff Talvola
  gtalvola at bbn.com


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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 08:26:29 -0600 (MDT)
From: walter at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist))
Subject: Re: Sam Houston vs. Sam Adams

> One point in Jim Kochs favor. Every time I went by the BBC booth at the
> GABF he was there pouring beers and chatting with people. Didn't see any
> other "names" doing that. Did anybody else? 

	Guess it depends what you mean by "names", because I saw quite a 
few brewers pouring at their booths.  

> One last point, the SA Triple Bock served at the GABF had been aged in 
> the barrel for year. It tasted much better than the stuff in the bottles.

	That is really not saying much.  I personally thought the beer to 
be way overdone.  It was too sweet and syrupy, and full of fusels and 
other fermentation by-products.  A technical feat yes, but the 
drinkability is long lost by the end of a 1 oz sample.

Brian J Walter     Chemistry Graduate Student     walter at lamar.colostate.edu
RUSH Rocks Best                Homebrewer/Beer Geek                 Go Pack!

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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 08:40:50 -0600 (MDT)
From: walter at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist))
Subject: Re: Blonde/Golden Ale

In HOMEBREW Digest #1562 Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu writes: 
> Does anyone know what a "Blonde Ale" is supposed to be?  And why can't
> anyone brew it???

Straight from the GABF guidelines:
Blonde Ale

Golden Ale/Canadian Style Ale
	Golden ales are a pale blond variation of the classic pale ale.  
However, Golden ale more closely approximates a lager in its crisp, dry 
palate, noticeable floral aroma and light body.

Kolsch
	Kolsch is warm fermented and aged at cold temperatures (Alt-style 
beer), very pale in color, withe a slightly dry, winey and subtly sweet 
palate.  This beer has low hop flavor and aroma with medium bitterness.  
Wheat can be used in brewing this beer which is fermented using ale or 
lager yeasts.

Can't help you on why the judges trashed them all.  I do think that there 
were very few kolsch beers entered.

- --bjw

Brian J Walter     Chemistry Graduate Student     walter at lamar.colostate.edu
RUSH Rocks Best                Homebrewer/Beer Geek                 Go Pack!

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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 07:48:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Willits <willits at camelot.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Using milk for labels


In HBD #1563 John Adams writes:

>I use regular bonded paper in either color laser/deskjet printer.  I
>recommend using a glue stick to adhere the label to the bottle.  It's 
>easy to
>apply and comes of very easy with a quick soak in the sink of warm water.
>
>You can also use milk (yes milk).  Use a paint brush and *lighty* paint
>the label with the milk.  Once it drys it works great and is also easily
>removed.
>
>There are two disadvantages with milk.  You might get the label too wet when
>you apply the milk and the label will wrinkle somewhat (that's why you must
>*lightly* apply the milk).
>
>It also does have the immediate bond the glue stick has.  I use a 
>rubberband to
>hold the label in place until the milk drys.

I use nonfat milk regularly and have not had any problems.  I float 
labels in a bowl of milk for a second, run the label across the lip of 
the bowl to remove excess milk, and put the label on the bottle.  I 
usually smooth it out with a paper towel.  By the time I have smoothed 
the label, it has adhered.  

Mike Willits


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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 94 11:03:09 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Re: Using corn (maize)

Mark A. Melton wrote about Using corn (maize): 
 > 	3. Masa or masa harina, nixtamal, corn tortillas:  no no no!!!
 > 		Processed in caustic solution and have distinctive odor 
 > 		you probably don't want.

I wonder how this would work in a chili beer.  Hmm.  Enchilada lager,
anyone?


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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 08:09:05 -0700
From: gbell at ix.netcom.com (Gary Bell)
Subject: Sam Houston vs. Sam Adams

Seems clear to me that Waterloo Brewing should copywright
Jim Koch's name for one of their brews -- perhaps for a
Rauchbier.

Gary
"Quis dolor cui dolium?"

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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 94 11:16:38 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Re: Mashing (Un)malted Wheat

Malted wheat is just that -- malted.  It has enzymes and can convert
its own starch to sugar.  It's easier to grind than unmalted wheat
(which acts like little rubber bullets in the mill).  Since the
structural proteins have been degraded in the malting process, it's
also less prone to a stuck mash.  It does not need to be, nor should
it be, pre-cooked to gelatinize the starch.  If you did, you would
destroy the enzymes.  A protein rest is helpful, but probably not
strictly required.  (Better put my flame-proof suit on.)

Unmalted wheat, on the other hand, is very hard, has undegraded gluten
(the stuff that makes bread dough so sticky & tough), totally
unconverted starch, and no enzymes.  It requires a long protein rest
to avoid a stuck mash (30-45 minutes at 120F seems to work well).
And, you need a high-enzyme malt (pilsener or 6-row) to convert the
starch.  I did a batch once with 50% unmalted wheat (flour, actually)
and 50% pale ale malt.  It came out very sweet, which I attribute to
having insufficient enzyme levels in the pale ale malt.

You'll also get somewhat different flavor profiles from the unmalted
vs the malted wheat.  It's hard to describe, but basically the
unmalted (i.e., raw) wheat gives a "breadier" flavor.  Malted wheat is
used in German wheat styles.  As far as I know, the only styles that
use unmalted wheat are Belgian "white" beers and Lambics.

=Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI

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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 10:25:31 -0500 (CDT)
From: gellym at aviion.persoft.com (brewing chemist Mitch)
Subject: re: HBD Hardcopy

In HBD 1563, Clay Glenn reaches out to the net-challenged:

> Cyber Age Publishing is now market testing the Hardcopy Edition
> of The Homebrew Digest.  A full month of the Digests are compiled
> with a full Table of Contents and cross-referenced with a
> detailed Index.  A few "extras" like FAQ files and other special
> "bonus" features are thrown in for good measure and printed in a
> spiral bound "lay flat" format of over 150 pages.

What a nice guy ! Say Clay, are you providing this as a *free* service to 
those without net access ? If not, I want royalties on every HBD you publish
that has any submissions from me in it ;-> (I'll have to start posting more
often now)

And why are you telling us this? If I read your message on the HBD, then I 
have no use for a printed version. I can print them out for myself and my
friends just fine, thank you. I'll be sure and tell all the brewers I know
where they can _buy_ the HBD now. Yeah, right.

Thanks but no thanks,

Mitch

- -- 
|                       - Mitch Gelly -                        | Zack Norman |
|software QA specialist, unix systems administrator, zymurgist,|     is      |
| AHA/HWBTA beer judge, & president of the Madison Homebrewers |  Sammy in   |
|      - gellym at aviion.persoft.com - gelly at persoft.com -       | Chief Zabu  |

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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 94 11:24:00 PDT
From: "Olesko, Ron" <Olesko at cnbc.nbc.com>
Subject: NJ Homebrew Shops

I want to respond to Dennis Forester's recent review of NJ homebrew shops.  
Dennis had a negative reaction to the Home Brewery in Bogota - arrogance from 
the staff seems to be the main issue.

Speaking from personal experience, I have found the opposite to be true.  
The employees have been helpful, courteous, and friendly.  They were very 
helpful in getting me started on the right foot.  (Keeping my fingers 
crossed - no bad batches yet!)  I started brewing about 2 years ago and the 
Home Brewery has been my primary source.  (I have also utilized mail order 
from several out of state shops just for comparison.) 

I do know that the Home Brewery is always busy, Saturdays especially.   I can 
imagine that it is difficult for them to give the attention to 
everyone who needs it at such a time.  

The only "complaint" I have about them is that they are frequently out of 
stock on items that I need.  It took awhile to get a carboy and a wort 
chiller from them.  Again, I attribute that to the volume of business they 
do.   

I am not affiliated with the store, just a satisfied customer.  

By the way, does anyone know of a homebrew store in Spring Valley, NY?


Ron Olesko




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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 09:05:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Frane <gummitch at teleport.com>
Subject: selling the HBD

> From: clayglen at netcom.com (Clay Glenn)
> Subject: HBD Hardcopy Edition
> 
> For more details about the Homebrew Digest Hardcopy Edition,
> please reply directly via e-mail, or write to the publisher:
>           Cyber Age Publishing
>           1835 Newport Boulevard, G182 #263-HBD
>           Costa Mesa, California  92627
> 
You're going to sell this?  Where're my royalties?

- --Jeff



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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 94 12:12:23 -0400
From: Dave Coombs <coombs at cme.nist.gov>
Subject: wanted to buy/rent (Wash. DC area): roller mill

In Washington DC area (sorry, I already tried r.c.b in dc):

Does anyone know someone who wants to get rid of an old roller mill?
I didn't think so...  Does anyone have a mill I might rent or
borrow?  Thanks.

dave
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Coombs					 david.coombs at nist.gov	
National Institute of Standards & Technology	 Tel:	(301) 975-2865	
Gaithersburg MD  20899  USA	      	       http://isd.cme.nist.gov

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Date: 27 Oct 1994 09:02:14 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Info for New Brewers and Miscellany

Hi Group,

Kelly asked yesterday about how much DME to use for priming. 
The common amount for 5 gallons is 1 & 1/4 cup of dry malt extract, boiled in a
couple cups of water and cooled, before adding to your bottling bucket. Rack
your beer into your bottling bucket, putting the siphon outlet beneath the
surface of your priming solution; this prevents splashing and unwanted aeration
at this point.
Using DME for priming generates a little bit of protein trub. Sometimes this
results in a protein ring around the top of the bottle. Don't let this worry
you that you have an infection. Smell it first before tossing your batch.

For any new brewers to this forum, Welcome. I would like to mention that there
is a plethora of brewing information on the net these days, including my file,
How to Brew Your First Beer, containing info on equipment,
terms, brewing processes and troubleshooting. It is available via FTP
from Homebrew/Docs at sierra.stanford.edu or via WWW on Spencer's
Beer Page at http://guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu/Beer/
Also available at these sites are How-To files on Equipment, Mashing, and
Recipes.

Beer Labels: Hey folks, I use Scotch Tape. Plain paper labels out of the
laserprinter and photocopier, two pieces of tape and I am done. No crying over
spilled milk. When the bottle is empty, it is very easy to peel the tape off
the bottle.

Beer Bread: Thanks Jeff, I appreciated your professional input. If I can ramble
about brewing related metallurgy, you can certainly talk about brewing related
baking. I have been meaning to try this for some time now. Maybe next week I
will finally do it.

Cyber Age Publishing: I am sure there will be many responses to this, but I
think this is going to be important and wanted to air my opinion too. 
The HBD IS a public forum, brewers share public information.
However, I think that Clay is leaving himself wide open for litigation for
publishing other's quotes without permission. It is one thing to use
information gathered from the HBD, evaluate it and utilize the information to
write and publish an original work; it is another to publish someone else's
work for them without compensation. If Clay wants to set up a corporation that
would track and compensate each HBD submitter....
Further, re. FAQ files and the like, If my How to Brew file was to be published
and sold without my consent, I am sure Jim Koch could give me lots of advice on
what to do about it...

John Palmer MDA-SSD M&P palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com  


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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 12:47:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Greg Demkowicz <demkowg at iia.org>
Subject: re:glass air locks


Dan Wood asks for a source on glass air locks.  I picked up mine at 
"The Brewmeister, 115 No. Union Ave, Cranford, N.J., 07016, ($6.00)
908-709-9295 or outside of N.J. 800-322-3020. Yes, he does do mail order.

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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 10:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: kr_roberson at gate.pnl.gov
Subject: Sankey Keg on side

I have a question about Sankey kegs. What I would like to do is
to buy one of the straight-sided 1/2 barrel kegs, but I want to
be able to dispense it while it is laying on its side. I haven't 
ever seen inside of one, so I don't know if this is possible or
not. Anyone have experience doing this? I anticipate that I might
have to bend the dip tube and/or extend the inlet tube, but really
have no clue as to how the Sankey taps are constructed.
Regards from the Northwest,
Kyle



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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 14:19:44 -0400
From: RLANCASTER at ntia.doc.gov
Subject:  Kriek, sent WP file, will try again, 2 ways

     Last July, there were several comments about Brewferm Kriek,
which I had just bought.  On the advice of sam at toolsmiths.on.ca,
I did not boil the extract, just heated it up real well, which
prevented the cherry from being driven out.  I am enjoying the
results now, details below, with a tip of the mug to Sam.  

Brewferm Kriek, from Belgium

2 cans Brewferm Kriek extract, has "hopped malt, cherry flavor,
glycerine, citric acid, yeast"

2 pounds corn sugar
their yeast

     August 1, 1994, boiled 2 gallons water, added 2 cans
extract, 2 pounds (about 1000 g) corn sugar, brought to a boil
while stirring, did not boil.  Added to water in bucket up to 6
gallons, cooled bucket in icy sink until 68 degrees F., pitched
yeast, sealed up.  Kept in basement where temperature was at
about 77 degrees F., which corresponded to their instructions for
a "warm" place.   Next day blowing out lots of blood colored
krausen, bubbled 5 days, put on airlock then, bubbled 3 more
days.  On August 9, siphoned to carboy, air lock, settled out
until August 14 when I added 1 cup sugar, bottled.  Trouble with
bottler, broke several bottles while capping, only got 48
bottles.  Put into boxes in the same 77 degree F. "warm" basement
area for 7 days, then set on the cold cellar floor for 8 weeks,
temperature about 50 degrees F, cause they asked for a "cooler"
place.  On October 21, tried.  Fine red color, good carbonation,
slightly pink head lasts a long time.  Taste is like a light ale
with just a touch of sourness at the back of your mouth, after
taste is lightly cherry, again slightly sour, not sweet.  Then,
no lingering taste at all.  Everybody likes this one, will do
again next summer cause it seems to be a good hot weather
refresher.  Remember, send results to sam at toolsmiths.on.ca



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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 94 16:40:00 EST
From: "Dulisse, Brian" <BBD4 at CIPCOD1.EM.CDC.GOV>
Subject: rousing yeast


many thanks to all who responded.  the question was "how to rouse 
flocculated yeast."  about half of the respondents argued for actually 
shaking the carboy; the other half suggested swirling the wort in the carboy 
(i.e., leaving the base on the floor and moving the top of the carboy in a 
circle).  all pointed out what in retrospect is kind of obvious (i am 
embarrased to say): the blanket of co2 should keep the fermenting wort from 
oxidizing.  again, thanks.

bd

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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 13:47 CDT
From: MXPYP7.HQAMC at MHS.SAFB.AF.MIL (Schinelli, Capt Bruce)
Subject: Another Pub Request/Heather

Well it looks like the Blue Dragon Femtobrewery is moving to the Detroit 
area, specifically around Southfield, Mich.  Can anyone tell me a) if 
there is a local homebrew club in the area, or b) if Detroit has any 
microbreweries or brewpubs?
Please send private email and I'll compile and send mail for the whole 
HBD.

Awhile back, I asked if anyone knew how to get their hands on some 
Scottish heather tips, to make some Leone Fraoch.  I'm asking again, 
despite the underwelming response.  How about some of our English 
friends?

v/r    Bruce



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Date: Thu, 27 Oct 1994 14:29:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Segolene Badelon <psu02502 at odin.cc.pdx.edu>
Subject: data on beer drinkers

HELP!!!!!	
I need to get some data on France. Do you have any idea where I can find 
the average consumption per inhabitant (espacially in Alsace where beer 
is made) ?
Thank you for  your suggestion, and for the other ones I read everyday to 
make my own beer. What a pleasure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Date: Fri, 28 Oct 1994 08:05:54 +1000 (EST)
From: David Draper <David.Draper at mq.edu.au>
Subject: Hard Copy Sounds Fishy

Dear Friends, I don't like the sound of the idea of someone selling
printed-out versions of the HBD.  Leaving aside the practical
considerations that a book-form HBD entails (namely, the whole purpose is
for ongoing discussions and trouble-shooting--freezing a month's worth
into hard copy is rather like watching the middle reel of a film), I just
don't think it's right to use other people's ideas and efforts without
express permission.  I'm sure most of us are happy for anyone to read our
stuff, but if, for example, someone had The Idea of the Century and it got
into the hard copy and resulted in blockbuster sales, they might
justifiably feel ripped off.  This is just my knee-jerk reaction, maybe
I'm way off base.

Cheers, Dave in Sydney
- --
"Life's a bitch, but at least there's homebrew" ---Norm Pyle
******************************************************************************
David S. Draper, School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, NSW 2109
Sydney, Australia. email: david.draper at mq.edu.au fax: +61-2-850-8428
             ....I'm not from here, I just live here....




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Date: 27 Oct 94 18:37:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Advertising on the HBD

David posts an advertisement on some homebrew videos.

A week or so ago, there was another post of a commercial nature.
I'd like to ask that everyone refrain from posting advertisements
in the HBD.  It is quite simply NOT the place for them.  No matter
how useful the information might be, anyone with a couple of bucks
a month or a friend at a university can post commercials to the
HBD and it's very efficient, cheap advertising.  If we tolerate
ads, no doubt in a few months, every second article will be an ad.

If it starts getting that way, I, for one, will be taking my brewing
questions and answers elsewhere.

Al.

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Date: 27 Oct 94 22:12:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Re: Are AHA guidelines a joke?/Starting a Pilsner/DMS?/Small kettle/rousing

Spencer and others have posted articles questioning why some beers
that were clearly out-of-style, based upon their recipes, won in the
National Competition.

Let me propose a *POSSIBLE* explaination.  Before I say it, let me do
a little pre-emptive back-pedaling. I'm NOT saying that this is always
the case, that any of the suspect winners in this years Nationals were
indeed guilty of this, nor am I saying that this is always intentional.
That said, let me propose that perhaps the recipe was not correct.
In what ways might the recipe not be correct?  How about:

1. 6 gallons were made, but the brewer thought there were only 5 and they
did not measure the OG, but instead, they estimated it after the fact.

2. the brewer could not read their own brewing log,

3. the brewer did not keep a brewing log and put together the recipe from
memory,

4. the brewer's handwriting was sloppy on the recipe form and the figures
were misread,

5. the brewer accidentally mixed-up recipes and copied the wrong recipe
onto the entry form, or

6. the brewer intentionally doctored the recipe.


I judged a 1st place beer at the 1993 AHA Nationals 2nd round that I am
willing to bet had no more than 20 IBUs.  When I reviewed the recipe
prior to publication in Zymurgy, I calculated over 50 IBUs!  I'm willing
to bet my BJCP National rank that this was an error in the recipe.  I pointed
this out to the Managing Editor and suggested that we add an editorial
comment that this recipe was somehow incorrect, but I'm not sure what
actually was published.  I will look again at the preliminary text that
James writes and if there is not, perhaps there should be a disclaimer
about the recipes... that the recipes are published as-is, exactly as
provided by their authors, and that there are sometimes errors in them.

I've heard tales of brewers who never give their proper recipes, as I'm
sure you know brewers (and chefs) who do the same.  I try my best to
discourage this kind of practice and would like Competition organizers to
occasionally challange way-out recipes to try to keep the brewers honest,
but I know this is an unlikely hope.

**********
Ron writes:
>I have decided to try Don McDaniel's PU recipe from Cat's Meow, and I have a
>few questions.  I am a new brewer, and this will be my first try at liquid
>yeast. (Wyeast #2007), any suggestions??  Also, I neewd 15 AAU's Saaz hops,
>how do I convert HBU's to AAu's?  Or probably more importantly,, AAU's to
>Ozs??  Please help,

Wyeast #2007 (Pilsen Lager) is remarkably similar to that used by Anheuser-
Busch, so unless you like Bud and a lot of acetaldehyde, I would use either
the Wyeast Bohemian Lager or the Wyeast Czech Lager yeasts.  As for AAUs and
HBUs, they are the same.  To convert AAUs to ounces, divide the AAUs by the
%AA of your hops.  For example, if you want 15 AAUs and you have 3% AA
Saaz, you want 5 ounces of those Saaz.  However, I'm quite sure you don't
want 15 AAUs or HBUs in a Pilsner.

Perhaps you want 15 IBUs in an American Pilsner, but 5 ounces of 3% Saaz
for 60min is about 66 IBUs.  If you are trying to make something like
Pilsner Urquel, then you want about 40 IBUs, which for a boil gravity of
less than 1.050 is about 3ounces of 3% Saaz for 60 minutes.  If you are
indeed trying to make Budweiser, then you want about 15 IBUs and therefore
you want to use about 1.125 ounces of 3% Saaz.  Pick up the Hops and Beer
Special Issue of Zymurgy -- that's where I got all the formulas to calculate
the IBUs I've quoted here.  These formulas work for me -- I have laboratory
proof that they do.

*********
Dan writes:
>The corn smell/taste is distinct,
>but smells sweet and not unpleasant, it just doesn't belong in my
>beer!
 
>Is this DMS?  Any ideas on where it came from?  How to prevent it?  Any
>hope for this beer?  Again, I seriously doubt infection, my sanitation
>practices are pretty rigorous.

Yes, my suspicion is that what you've got is DMS there.  A sort of pleasant
cooked corn aroma that is acceptable in small amounts in a lager, but tastes
out-of-place in an ale.  Since you say your sanitation is quite good, let's
assume that this is not the source, although there is a bacteria (of which I
can never remember the spelling... Obesumbacterium? drat!) which does produce
DMS.  Two other sources are slow chilling of your wort and excessive amounts
in your malt.  Since you are already using a wort chiller, unless it's taking
you longer than 30 or 45 minutes to chill, I would suspect the malt.  Try
a different brand of extract.

*******

Johathan writes:
>The time has arrived to try to brew some holiday ale. The
>problem that I have is that the recipe demands that I boil 3
>gallons. Problem -  I only have a pan that will take about 1.5
>gallons. Should I brew half the quantity, just use less water
>and make it up later or wait 'till I have a larger pan ?

You can use less water and just make it up later, but be aware of the
fact that you will get less bitterness out of your hops thanks to the
higher gravity of the boil.  How much less is dependent on the actual
gravity.  Rager's formulas seem to work for my setup well and his
compensation formula is:

         (BG - 1.050)
    GA = ------------
             0.2           where GA is the adjustment due to the gravity
                           and BG is the boil gravity.  Note that there
                           should be no adjustment for BGs less than 1.050.


So, if a full boil recipe (with an OG less than 1.050) calls for 3 ounces
of Fuggles and your GA turns out to be 0.25, then add 1, multiply the 3
ounces by 1.25 and use 3.75 ounces of hops.  If the full boil recipe gravity
was already higher than 1.050, then it's a bit more complicated -- email me.

*******
Brian writes:
>thoroughly fermented out.  some users recommended rousing the yeast to get 
>them to finish their work.  how is this actually done?  i imagine it would 
>be a bad thing to start shaking a carboy filled with partially fermented 
>wort, because of the oxidation which would result

As long as you have an airlock or blowoff tube on the fermentor and CO2
has purged-out all the O2, you won't get oxidation from shaking your carboy.
All you really need to do is put it on a piece of carpeting and swirl it
around till some of the yeast gets kicked back up into suspension.  I would
check the SG and see if it has not fermented out on its own before rousing,
though.

Al.

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Date: 27 Oct 94 23:04:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: DMS

I wrote about DMS:
>Two other sources are slow chilling of your wort and excessive amounts
>in your malt.

Actually, its excessive amounts of the PRECURSOR of DMS in you malt.  This
precursor compound is known as SMM.

Al.

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1564, 10/28/94