FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Talk the talk/infection?/SNPA "Culturing" (00bkpickeril)
  Keg boiler/tun mods? (Timothy Sixberry)
  Immersion versus Counterflow chillers/Copyrights, sort of... (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Official Disclaimer ("Craig A. Janson")
  Copyright Discussion (CAVEMAN -- San Bernardino, Calif. USA)
  Yet Another DMS post! ("Steven W. Smith")
  In Search Of......... (VALGENTIF)
  Re: Propane cooking indoors (Philip Gravel)
  Re: RE: Vent Pipes (Harry Covert)
  Efficiency & volume (1st allgrain) (Lee Bollard)
  Acronyms (Gary Bell)
  Re:Killians Recipe (Dale A Duvall)
  Keg Conversion FAQ/UNIX brewing software/Pizza Beer (Teddy Winstead)
  Bottle Durability (Ward Weathers)
  Malting - my mistake (Tel +44 784 443167)
  Motor a mill (Jay Weissler)
  Hop vendors? ("J. Pat Martinez" )
  Weiss yeast (Wolfe)
  SN Celebration Ale recipe / partial mash question (ESMPD)" <gcunning at Census.GOV>
  partial mash (was Re: Liberty Ale) (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Low gravity brewing:  English Mild (darrylri)
  TSP ("Anton Verhulst")
  Gassy kegged beer and gassy brewer (fwd) (Martin Lodahl)
  are bulk extracts the same? (Bob Tattershall)
  Priming with green beer (revisited) (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Cheap kegs ("DEV::SJK")



******************************************************************
* NEW POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
* 
* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.
******************************************************************
 
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from 
  sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via 
  mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu.  Send HELP as the body of a 
  message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) 
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 04 Nov 1994 16:30:53 -0500 (EST)
From: 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu
Subject: Talk the talk/infection?/SNPA "Culturing"

Dear Homebrewers,

First, a couple of questions, then I'll share some recent experiences.

I have to admit that as a brewer of only just over 1 year, I still have a lot
of trouble understanding what tastes like, for example, diacetyl.  I know the
standard answers, such as that diacetyl tastes like "butterscotch" but that
doesn't seem to help me much.  I guess what I really need to do is attend a
beer festival, but I'm a long way from most all of them and I doubt that I
will get the opportunity to attend one anytime soon.  I have definitely
noticed the "skunky" taste that I wasn't as aware of before I started
homebrewing.  I was buying Grolsch for the bottles for awhile, but I can't
get over the skunky taste of it here and I don't like it nearly as much as I
used to.

I have been trying commercial beers that I've heard good things about in the
HBD. Sierra Nevada IPA is fantastic!  Pilsner Urquel is really unique, but I
don't really know how to talk about it, if you know what I mean.  How would
you describe it?  Sierra Nevada stout is good, but I like Guiness better, I
think.  How would you describe the difference?   Sorry I have not really
researched this that much, about the only thing I have read on this is the
small section at the end of CP's TNCJOHB.  I guess there is no substitute for
experience, but I have no homebrew club or friends locally that homebrew, so
it's been a source of frustration learning how to describe and evaluate my
own brews.

Second problem.  I have a batch now that appears infected, since most of the
bottles have a white fill ring.  Also, there are some black spots in some of
the necks, under the fill line, that are only visible when the bottle is held
up to a strong light.  Those spots are irregular shaped, and kinda look like
small ground pepper, stuck to the glass.  I think it's weird that not all the
bottles have the white ring.  Besides being over hopped, the batch is really
quite drinkable, and it is getting better over time, not worse as you might
expect with an infection. Right?  They don't look as horrible as this sounds.

I have some suspicions about it, of course.  This batch was over pitched.  I
used 2 packets of Doric ale yeast. About 40 hours later I panicked and tossed
in 1 pack of munton and fison dry yeast, because it had not started at that
point.  It then started a couple of hours later, so the M&F yeast was
probably a mistake.  Prior to this batch, I had only ever pitched one
pack--always dry yeast to that point.  Could the white stuff be related to
the overpitching?  Also, our water quality is not the best.  On past batches,
I have used 3 gal of RO (reverse osmosis) water chilled, for topping up the
boiled wort.  This water is great stuff, I can get it for 25 cents a gallon,
and chilling it in the freezer works great to cool the wort for pitching.  I
really think the water helps a lot.  The tap water has some scale in it
typically, and is chemically fairly close to "burton on trent" according to
the table in TNCJOHB.  Of course, the main source of the problem is very
likely just that the bottles were not clean enough.  I have not used a bottle
brush before but I certainly plan on it before bottling my next batch. It
beats drinking a case of swill, at least.  ;-)

I'm not very scientific about my brewing.  I change a lot of variables from
batch to batch, but I am learning nonetheless.  It's more fun this way!  I am
very excited about my batch that's currently in the secondary.  I made it
from my first 2 box/bags of NorthWest Gold malt extract. (Apparently the 
AMBER is lighter than the GOLD?  I guessed the opposite.)  What's more, I
"cultured" the yeast from SNPA.  This too, was not what I'd call scientific.
I decided I could NOT wait 'till I had a starter solution ready to try it, so
I popped a top and just immediately resealed the last inch or so in the
bottle with foil and a rubber band.  Then, I did that with another.  ;-)  I
kept these bottles in the fridge for a few days till I had time to do the
starter.  I made about 2 cups from 6 tbs of DME, and a few hop pellets.  I
was very careful with sanitation, but not to the extremes I have read about.
I used CP's technique of pouring the boiling starter wort into a heated
bottle.  When it came time to pitch, I added the yeast from the 2 bottles I
had drank from days before, and drank another one and pitched it's yeast for
good measure.  ;-)  Since I paid $7 for the SNPA 6 pack, I was still in for
only the price of a pack of liquid yeast, but had the pleasure of 3 SNPAs to
boot.  I know this was not a very high rate of pitching, and that the yeast
faq, for example, suggests pitching into only a cup to starter, then adding
more wort later.  Well, it took several days, and I had given up on it, but
not tossed it out.  Good thing.  About 5 or so days after pitching, I noticed
a high krausen!  Wow.  So, I brewed up 6.6 lbs of NW Gold, some odd hop
pellets, and pitched it, along with the yeast from the 4th bottle of SNPA.
All the while I was careful of temperature to avoid shocking the yeast. Well,
the yeast really took off in the primary.  At racking to secondary about a
week later, this stuff tasted great flat!  As an extra experiment, I bottled
about 10oz of wort that didn't make it thru the siphon to the secondary.  I
just added a tsp of corn sugar. It hasn't exploded yet, and I'm planning to
have it on bottling night.  I haven't decided yet if I will call this batch
"Golden Mountain Ale," or "Ina-Godda Nevada Not So Pale Ale."  Probably GMA,
since it's not really hopped like an IPA.  I hope this one is really good
because I want to give away some for Christmas. 

Drink the yeast!

- --Brian Pickerill  <00bkpickeril at leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu> Ball State University 

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 04 Nov 94 14:13:00 PST
From: Timothy Sixberry <tsixber at mswisard.kla.com>
Subject: Keg boiler/tun mods?


Hi Brewers,

I would be very greatful if someone out there could tell me the best way  to 
install 1/4 turn s.steel ball valves on my kegs ie. sparge,mashtun, and 
boiler.  As a matter of fact, if someone could direct me to a source for the 
valves themselves that would be great too.  I can only find brass ones at 
the hardware store,and I would like to use stainless if I could.  I'm trying 
to get this wicked 10 gallon brew system going and this is my last hang-up. 
 It will be just like the brew magic, but at a magic cost.  So if anyone has 
some experience modifying kegs (and I know you do) please write and fill me 
in.

P.S. please respond to my private e-mail address as I don't get the digest 
any more.

Return to table of contents


Date: 4 Nov 94 19:52:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Immersion versus Counterflow chillers/Copyrights, sort of...

Before we re-hash the Immersion versus Counterflow chiller debate
again, I'd like to urge interested parties to check the archives
first.  There's probably a megabyte of info on this topic in back
issues.

******

Regarding the very boring topic of hardcopy and CDROM Homebrew Digests,
I'd just like to say that the whole concept of someone trying to make
a profit from the HBD goes against the free exchange of ideas.  Sure,
if someone is going to go through the trouble of putting something like
that together, then they deserve to make a small profit to compensate
for the work they put into the assembly of the information. However, if
someone is making a profit on the information itself, then it just
doesn't feel right to me.

I have spent a considerable amount of my time helping people solve their
homebrewing problems.  I never expected to get anything out of it other
than the knowledge that I helped foster the hobby and possibly help
a couple of people make better beer.  If indeed the people who are
redistributing HBD are doing it to further spread our combined homebrewing
help, then great.  On the other hand, they may not be -- I don't know.

Since I don't know, I just feel very uneasy now about posting anything
particularly novel.  This incident didn't really cause me to start
rethinking my participation in the HBD, rather it just reinforced what
I've been thinking about for a while.  I believe it started when Mark
Garetz (self) published his book _Using_Hops_.  In it, he said something
like "some brewers use 10% more hops to compensate for using a hop bag."
To the very best of my knowledge (and I've read each and every HBD since
I subscribed in 1987) I'm the one who first posted this method and I believe
that nobody other than me has posted about it since.  This is a minor point,
but it was a rude awakening.

Ulick probably thinks that I'm being pompous... "Who would want this rambling
crap that Al writes each day?"  Well, there are books being published on
homebrewing every day and I've seen many items from the HBD making their
way into these books without any credit.  I'll bet that this explains why
there are so many errors in the homebrewing books that have been coming out
lately.  Author's who *think* they know enough to write about homebrewing,
snagging material from the HBD (and misinformed HB shop owners), which is
commonly littered with errors.  For example, I found at least a half-dozen
errors in today's HBD, but I'm just too tired and disheartened to bother to
correct them.

Al.

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 4 Nov 94 17:32 EST
From: "Craig A. Janson" <0003522158 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Official Disclaimer

OK.  From now on, put the following at the end of each post.  It will use the 
bandwidth you would ordinarily use for flaming people and allow all of us to 
get back to the business of relax.have.homebrew.

Disclaimer: This post does not reflect the thoughts or opinions of either
myself, my company, my friends, or my cat; don't quote me on that; don't
quote me on anything; you may distribute this posting and all its associated
parts freely but you may not make a profit from it or include the posting in
commercial publications without written permission me at the
e-mail address below; further redistributions of this document or its parts
are allowed; posts are subject to change without notice; posts are slightly
enlarged to show detail; any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead,
is unintentional and purely coincidental; hand wash only, tumble dry on low
heat; do not bend, fold, mutilate, or spindle; your mileage may vary; no
substitutions allowed; for a limited time only; this offer is void where
prohibited, taxed, or otherwise restricted; posts is provided "as is" 
without any warranties expressed or implied; user assumes full liabilities;
not liable for damages due to use or misuse; an equal opportunity post employer;
no shoes, no shirt, no posts; quantities are limited while supplies last;
if defects are discovered, do not attempt to fix them yourself, but return
to an authorized post service center; caveat emptor; read at your own risk;
parental advisory - explicit lyrics; text may contain material some readers
may find objectionable, parental guidance is advised; keep away from
sunlight, pets, and small children; limit one-per-family please; no money
down; no purchase necessary; you need not be present to win; some assembly
required; batteries are not included; action figures sold separately; no
preservatives added; safety goggles may be required during use; sealed for
your protection, do not use if the safety seal is broken; call before you
dig; for external use only; if a rash, redness, irritation, or swelling
develops, discontinue use; use only with proper ventilation; avoid extreme
temperatures and store in a cool dry place; keep away from open flames and
avoid inhaling fumes; avoid contact with mucous membranes; do not puncture,
incinerate, or store above 120 degrees Fahrenheit; do not place near
flammable or magnetic source; smoking these posts may be hazardous to your
health; the best safeguard, second only to abstinence, is the use of a
good post; text used in these posts is made from 100% recycled electrons
and magnetic particles; no animals were used to test the hilarity of these
posts; no salt, MSG, artificial color or flavor added; if ingested, do not
induce vomiting, if symptoms persist, consult a postologist; posts are
ribbed for your pleasure; slippery when wet; must be 18 to enter; possible
penalties for early withdrawal; post offer valid only at participating
post sites; slightly higher west of the Rockies; allow four to six
weeks for delivery; disclaimer does not cover hurricane, lightning, tornado,
tsunami, volcanic eruption, earthquake, flood, and other Acts of God,
misuse, neglect, unauthorized repair, damage from improper installation,
typos, misspelled words, incorrect line voltage, missing or altered serial
numbers, sonic boom vibrations, electromagnetic radiation from nuclear
blasts, customer adjustments that are not covered in the post list, and
incidents owing to motor vehicle accidents, airplane crash, ship sinking,
leaky roof, falling rocks, mud slides, forest fire, broken glass, flying
projectiles, or dropping the item; other restrictions may apply.  If
something offends you, lighten up, get a life, and move on!!!


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 5 Nov 1994 01:07:03 -0800
From: cjcoker at csupomona.edu (CAVEMAN -- San Bernardino, Calif. USA)
Subject: Copyright Discussion

> Subj: Homebrew Digest #1571 (November 05, 1994)

[snip]

> Date: 03 Nov 94 07:34:49 GMT
> From: Gregg_Weir#123#Notes#c#_Gregg_Weir#064#DCI#125# at mail.discovery.com
> Subject: Copyright Discussion

[snip]

> But until you know excactly what you're talking about, stick to home
> brew discussion.

Greg,

What makes you think they know anything about home brew?  Maybe they're
wannabe lawyers . . .

Chuck

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 05 Nov 1994 08:09:38 -0700 (MST)
From: "Steven W. Smith" <SYSSWS at gc.maricopa.edu>
Subject: Yet Another DMS post!

  We've all been told time and again (and again) "DMS is driven out of your 
wort by boiling".  I "discovered" (doh) something that should have been obvious.
Last weekend when I got involved with something else during brewing and had a 
1 1/2 hour boil:  The Steam Smells Different When The DMS Is Gone!!!  

Stunning, isn't it?  *<:-O

  Yes, it now seems likely that DMS is what drove my daughter and S.O. to buy 
me a King Kooker and banish me to the yard (so it's not _all_ bad).
  Thanks to this amazing revelation I've now become painfully aware of DMS in 
some of my lovelies...  I now eagerly await what may be my first bock++ sans 
DMS.  Live and learn and brew better.  Thanks to y'all who beat me over the 
head with this information until it stuck!
  _,_/|   
  \o.O;   Steven W. Smith - Systems Programmer, but not a Licensed Therapist
 =(___)=  Glendale Community College, Glendale Az. USA
    U     syssws at gc.maricopa.edu
P.S. Feel free to share this pearl of wisdom with the net-challenged population 
at large :-)

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 05 Nov 1994 21:43:30 -0500 (EST)
From: VALGENTIF at delphi.com
Subject: In Search Of.........


I am currently in search of a recipe fora batch of truly unique homebrew for
the upcoming holiday season.  If anyone out there has a recipe they are
willing to share it would be most appreciated.
 
Any recipes can be sent to me at VALGENTIF at DELPHI.COM

I am sure there are others out there considering a holiday batch so I will
be sure to post any recipes received to the HB Digest.

                

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 5 Nov 94 23:22 CST
From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Re: Propane cooking indoors

===> Tom Cannon says in his last word on propane cooking indoors...

>          1.)  Propane sucks in large amounts of oxygen, on the order
>          of depleting an enclosed house of its total supply within an
>          hour.

I find this hard to believe.

>          2.)  Carbon Monoxide build-up after combustion is also life
>          threatening requiring serious ventilation (again, more than
>          a few open windows).

True, but is it any more of a problme than an ordinary gas stove assuming
that the propane burner is properly adjusted.

>          3.)  Big burners are a fire hazard.

Sounds true to me.

>          4.)  Occasionally, you have propane leaks.  Being a truly
>          orderless and colorless gas, this can lead to situtations
>          resulting in death.

Most fuels that are normally odorless (natural gas, propane) have methyl
mercaptan added to them.  This gives them an order so they can be detected
by smell.  The hazard of death from a propane leak seems exaggerated.
Since propane is basically inert, any death would be due to asphyxiation
- -- lack of oxygen due to excessive amount of propane.  Actually, the
greatest hazard of a propane leak would be explosion and fire should the
leaked propane ignite.

>          5.)  Propane is not the cleanest burning gas in the world
>          and could result in large soot stains on ceilings.

This would only be a problem if the burner were badly out of adjustment.
You would know that by the yellow, sooty flame.

>          6.)  Do you really want to risk a 15.5 gallon boilover
>          inside a house?

Point well taken..

- -- 
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel                                 pgravel at mcs.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 6 Nov 94 09:03 EST
From: Harry Covert <0007059940 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Vent Pipes


Harry Covert


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 6 Nov 94 11:12:43 PST
From: Lee Bollard <bollard at spk.hp.com>
Subject: Efficiency & volume (1st allgrain)

My first all-grain brew went pretty well.  Just like everyone said, it's
time consuming, but not difficult.

Now I need to know what to change for next time...

        Malt bill:
        ----------
        8 lbs Pale
        .5 lb Crystal 40L
        .5 lb Cara-Pils

I shot for 6 gallons volume before boiling, and did get that by the time
the runoff gravity was down to 1.010 :-) The gravity of the 6 gallons was
1.045.  :-)

After boiling for an hour I ended up with just over 4 gallons. :-(  The
gravity of this 4 gallons was 1.055 :-)  This is higher than the 1.048 I
shot for.  So I added some distilled water to top up the carboy (mistake?).

How did I do, efficiency-wise?

Next time, should I:

        Use more water? (YES)
        Use more grain?
        Use hotter sparge water (172F this time)
        RDWHAHB?


Regards,

Lee Bollard
bollard at spk.hp.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 6 Nov 1994 11:47:06 -0800
From: gbell at ix.netcom.com (Gary Bell)
Subject: Acronyms

I recently posted a note asking for the definition of a couple of
(IMHO) fairly obscure acronyms. The result was a flame that quite
frankly startled me. The flamer claimed, in an exchange of
private messages, that the reason behind the flame was not the
question but the attitude behind the question. Well, if Al
Korzonas thought there was an attitude problem he didn't say so
and I apologize for any misunderstanding. And thanks to Al and to
Sean O'Keefe for providing straightforward responses to my
question. But it's true that I don't like the over-use of
acronyms.

I run into this problem everywhere I go, not just on the net. We
get so used to using acronyms, at work, in sports, with friends,
that we forget that they can be alienating to those who aren't
"insiders". This is especially true for something like the HBD
which should endeavour to be as *inclusive* as possible. As a
step in the *right direction* (again IMHO) I've made a list of
acronyms, commonly used, uncommonly used, and even some that
might be used. My thanks to Ed Quier (elq1 at pge.com) for actually
making a stab at this a few weeks back (sorry Ed, you didn't
copyright it!). Does anyone have any proposed additions or
corrections? Maybe we should add something like this to the HBD
FAQ. 

A final note before the list: think about others, newbies and
non-newbies alike, when throwing out an acronym. Is is commonly
used or are you making it up. And does it really save that much
time and space that's it's worth slowing down, or preventing, the
comprehension of your audience. And now, without further ado:
 


A Concise Lexicon of Commonly-Used Internet Homebrew Acronyms


A-B       Anheiser-Busch
AA%       Percent Isomerized Alpha Acid
AAE       Alpha-Amylase Enzyme
AAU       Alpha Acid Units
ABC       Anchor Brewing Company
ABV       Alcohol By Volume
AHA       American Homebrewers Association
BAE       Beta-Amylase Enzyme
BBC       Boston Brewing Company
BTW       By the way
CHHB      The Complete Handbook of Home Brewing
CP        Charlie Papazian
DE        Diastatic Enzyme
DME       Dry Malt Extract (*not* Diastatic Malt Extract)
DMS       Dimethylsulfide
DMSO      Dimethylsulfoxide
EE        Extraction Efficiency
EKG       East Kent Goldings hops
ESB       Extra Special Bitter 
FAQ       Frequently asked questions
FG        Final Gravity
FTP       File Transfer Protocol
FWIW      For whats its worth
GABF      Great American Beer Festival 
HBD       Homebrew Digest
HBU       Homebrew Bitterness Units
HSA       Hot-side aeration
IBU       International bittering units
IMHO      In my humble opinion
IPA       India Pale Ale
M-D       MaltoDextrin
NBJCP     National Beer Judge Certification Program
OG        Original Gravity
PNW       Pacific Northwest
RCB       rec.crafts.brewing
RDWHAHB   Relax, don't worry have a home brew!
RIMS      Ricirculating infusion mash system
SG        Specific Gravity
SM        Sodium metabisulfate
SMM       S-Methylmethionine
SNPA      Sierra Nevada Pale Ale
SRM       Standard Reference Method (color units)
SWBN      Southwest Brewing News
TCJOHB    The Complete Joy of Home Brewing (1984)
TG        Terminal Gravity (see FG)
TIA       Thanks in advance
TNCJOHB   The New Complete Joy of Home Brewing (1991)
WWW       World Wide Web
YMMV      Your mileage may vary
ZLT       Zapap lauter-tun


- -- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary Bell				   "Quis dolor cui dolium?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 6 Nov 1994 12:29:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Dale A Duvall <duvall at efn.org>
Subject: Re:Killians Recipe

Date:         Wed, 02 Nov 94 15:38:05 CST
From: LBRISTOL at SYSUBMC.BMC.COM
Subject:      Request for Recipe
I'm looking for a recipe to make a red ale, or some other beer similar
to "Killian's Red", either the original version or the Coors version.
Either extract based or all-grain recipe.  Please submit either here, or
e-mail to "bplummer at sysubmc.bmc.com".  TIA!

I haven't tried this but It caught my attention.

Subj:  Re:Killian's Red Anyone???            94-10-27 11:42:50 EST
From:  TFRock

I recently brewed a brew that tastes fairly close to that of Killian's 
Red, only slightly maltier.  I dont' remember the exact finishing hops 
that was used, but the rest of the recipe was very simple.

1 3lb can of John Bull hopped light extract
3 lbs unhopped amber malt
1/2 lb crystal malt
1 1/2 oz Fuggles Hops (I think)
1/2 teaspoon Irish Moss (What else for Killian's - although not really Irish)

Crush the crystal malt and boil in 2 gallons of water for about 15 
minutes - remove the spent grains from the wort.  Add the John Bull 
hopped light and the powdered amber malt to the wort.  Boil for 45 
minutes then add the Irish moss.  At 50 minutes add the Fuggles hops and 
boil for an additional 10 minutes.  Cool, pitch the yeast, and bottle in 
7-9 days.  It develops a nice head and is remarkably good within 3-4 weeks.

TFRock

(From AOL)

Dale DuVall
duvall at efn.org
Low Beemer at aol.com
Eugene, Oregon

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 6 Nov 1994 17:15:53 -0600 (CST)
From: winstead%brauerei at cs.tulane.edu (Teddy Winstead)
Subject: Keg Conversion FAQ/UNIX brewing software/Pizza Beer

Hey folks, haven't posted here in a while, so I thought that I might
as well ramble for a few minutes --

I have three beer-related projects that I'm working on right now --

1.  I continue to work on the "1/2 Barrel Keg Conversion FAQ".  If you
have a question that you think should be in the FAQ, please mail
it to me, if you have answers that you think belong in the FAQ, mail
those to me, too.  If you'd like a copy of the FAQ, send me mail, and
I'll send you a copy.  My address is -- 'winstead at cs.tulane.edu'...
Also, it will shortly be availible on my WWW page -- 
'http://cs.tulane.edu/www/Winstead'...
I've sent out preliminary copies to some people, and feedback has been
fairly positive...

2.  I have completed most of the work on a curses-based beer recipe
formulator called 'BrewCalc' for UNIX.  I'd like some other people to
check it out to see if it works OK for you also.  I have to ask that
only people with programming experience evaluate this software.  If
you'd like to get a copy of the sources, you can mail me -- 
'winstead at cs.tulane.edu'...  I should be ready to get a copy to you
in a week or two.

3.  I originally entered the hobby of homebrewing in order to create
the ideal beer for drinking with pizza.  Evaluating many beers with
pizza is an arduous task, but I wanted to share some of my thoughts
about the perfect pizza beer's characteristics, and hopefully solicit
some advice from more experienced pizza lovers/homebrewers.

Here are the characteristics that I think are needed in a pizza beer:

	A.  Should be a Lager, since Lagers are generally cleaner, and
esters/fusel alcohols don't seem to agree with pizza the flavors and
aromas of pizza (I think that this may have something to do with the
delicate blend of sweet, somewhat fruity tomato sauce and saltiness
of the cheese and meats of a properly made pizza pie.  I think that an
ale which is too fruity throws off that balance.)  I'm not dead-set 
against ales here, I just think that lagers come closer to the RIGHT
THING. 

	B.  Should utilize between 5%-10% of some light caramel malts.
These caramel malts should lend minimal roasted flavor to the beer
(i.e. these flavors should be secondary).  These toasty/roasty flavors
seem appropriate in a pizza beer, but I don't think that they should
dominate. 

	C.  Should utilize Saaz and/or Hallertauer hops, as both of
these varieties seem to give the right blend of spicy/floral aroma to the
beer.  This aroma, unlike fusels/esters, seems to complement the pizza
very nicely.

So, in short I like a light amber lager with good maltiness,
complementary hoppiness, and a nice hop nose.  Here's an example grain
bill --

90% DWC Belgian Pils Malt 
 5% DWC Cara Vienne
 5% DWC Cara Pils
- --------------------------
20-25 IBUs and ample late-
hop additions of Saaz or
Hallertauer.

OG of about 1.050
Wyeast Munich (I know this yeast gets ragged on alot, but it works
really well for me.) or Bavarian Lager

So, please report your pizza beer results!  I'm excited to hear them.
So far, I've come really close to the RIGHT THING, but not yet.

(Yes, this is serious...  And it beats all the I'll sue you and him and
everyone else threads that predominate here lately.)


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 00:59:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Ward Weathers <psu01739 at odin.cc.pdx.edu>
Subject: Bottle Durability

I have been brewing with the same 200 bottles for the last year and half. 
When bottling today, I lost three bottles during capping due to
chipping/breaking glass!  I am using the two handled type of capper (which
I understand break more than their share of bottles), but these were my
first breakages.  I am wondering if the bottles are wearing out, or was
there just too much lateral action on the bottle?  Does anyone have any
comment on the durability of standard longneck bottles? 


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 09:54:14 +0000
From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167)
Subject: Malting - my mistake


 
     Thanks to those who pointed out the mistake in my recent posting
about malting. The starch in a grain of barley is, of course, produced
with the grain itself and not during the malting process. In fact, I'm
not sure why I'd assumed this - I'll check my reference again to see if
this was, in any way, implied or if (more likely) I just made it up. :)
 
Cheers,
     Brian


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Nov 94 08:18:46 -0600
From: jay_weissler at il.us.swissbank.com (Jay Weissler)
Subject: Motor a mill

I did it, broke down and bought one of Jack's maltmill(tm). Now I'd  
like to motorize it. Can anyone help me with suggestions or with  
their experience? (Will this post pull Jack out of hibernation and  
back onto the net?). I was thinking of either using an electric drill  
or a circular saw (bolted down) to drive a pully. Does this sound  
feasible? Is there a suggested rpm for the mill?
TIA
jayw

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 09:20:20 -0600
From: "J. Pat Martinez" <martinez at puccini.crl.umn.edu>
Subject: Hop vendors?

I'm anxious to buy some hops from the 1994 harvest.  I was going to purchase my 
hops either from HopTech or the Hop Source or both.  Any opinion about either 
company?  I'm assuming they are both excellent hop vendors.

Pat M.

%  J. Pat Martinez                     %  martinez at puccini.CRL.umn.edu
%  Univ. of Minnesota                  %  Phone:  (612) 625-2221
%  Dept. of Plant Pathology            %  Fax:  (612) 625-9728


Return to table of contents


Date: 7 Nov 94 09:00 CST
From: Wolfe at act-12-po.act.org
Subject: Weiss yeast

Last week I posted a question about the yeast in a bottle of Kindl Weiss.
Here is a summary of the responses I received.

It seems that the yeast in Kindl Weiss is the same as the fermentation
yeast (although it may be filtered and reinnoculated).  The problem,
however, is that the acidity in the beer may kill off the lactobacillus,
which gives Kindl its sourness.  So it seems that a culture from a bottle
of Kindl Weiss, if it could be propogated, would probably not produce
sourness in the finished beer.

Someone reported that his friend tried to culture Kindl Weiss yeast from
the bottle and was "spectacularly unsuccessful."  Fortunately, two
commercial strains of weiss yeast are available.  Both are from Head Start
Brewing Cultures run by Brian Nummer (BAN584 at TnTech.edu) who brought the
cultures from Berlin last year.  Both are rather expensive.  The first is
from Kindl and contains an ale yeast and lactobacillus ($6.95).  The second
is from Schultheiss and contains an ale yeast, lactobacillus, and
brettanomyces ($9.95).  I've also read that someone won a competition in
the past few years with a Berliner Weiss using yeast they cultured from a
bottle of Stoudt's Weizen (in Adamsville, PA).  I've also heard of a few
acceptable attempts at a Berliner Weiss using lambic mixtures.

Ed Wolfe
wolfe at act-12-po.act.org

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 11:01:33 -0500 (EST)
From: "Jerry Cunningham (ESMPD)" <gcunning at Census.GOV>
Subject: SN Celebration Ale recipe / partial mash question


    A few beer-related questions!

    1. I am trying to get better at recognizing and describing flavors in 
beer. Last night I tried the 1994 Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale, and I 
really have no clue as to how to describe it! Does anybody know the 1994 
recipe? It reminded me of Bigfoot (what a description - look out Michael 
Jackson ;>). Also, what does a vinegar-like taste mean? I tried a 
Pilsner-Urquell recently (on draft) and it had a vinegar-like aftertaste. 
I've tried P-U in the bottle and really enjoyed it, but this was a real 
bummer.

    2. I'm slowly moving towards going all grain. I'm planning on using a 
cooler with copper manifold , since I have an old 32 quart igloo lying 
around ( previously used to hold massive quantities of Budmilloors, I 
must confess ). My question is, can I use this with partial mashes? Say 2 
or 3 pounds of grain? Or do I need a smaller lauter tun? I'd like to try 
a few partial mashes first, to get my feet wet.


Also, regarding the copyright situation:

  (Just kidding...!)
  
  (I hope the Coyote doesn't make me stay for detention)


Thanks,

Jerry Cunningham
Annapolis, MD

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Nov 94 11:06:48 EST
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: partial mash (was Re: Liberty Ale)

To my mind, the reasons for doing partial mash batches are:

1. (Primary reason) Come to understand that mashing is NOT magic.
2. Don't have a pot big enough to boil runnings for a full batch.

=Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon Nov  7 08:29:40 1994
From: darrylri at microsoft.com
Subject: Low gravity brewing:  English Mild

Jim Bush asks me about my technique for making Milds, in regards
to the current discussion of low gravity beers.

I like low gravity, so-called "session beers" because they are
great for social occasions where it feels comfortable to have a
glass in your hand, but nobody really wants to get out of
control.  The British have made this a longstanding social
tradition, and low gravity beers in general have been the norm
for their styles throughout this century.  (This is in part why
they have become so restive with recent price rises that make
their pints about $2-$2.50, and why they are so upset at short
pours, where the government has basically said they won't
prosecute publicans who shave 5% from each pint.)

But even lower gravity beers than the 1.035-1.040 bitters come
from the industrial revolution and the large coal mining
industry that was needed to feed it in the last century.  These
beers, called Mild Ale, usually have gravities in the low 30s,
and even down into the high 20s.  (There are a few examples of
milds into the 1.045 range, but they are the exception that
proves the rule.)

What really distinguishes Mild from bitter is that Mild has low
hop bitterness.  Mild is usually darker than bitter, but there
can be substantial overlap in the amber range.  Some Milds have
distinctive hop character in the nose and flavor, but usually
the bitterness they have -- when they have it -- is derived from
roasted malt.  This can give Milds a nutty character, which can
be pleasing with a distinctive and fruity yeast. Brains' Dark
(1.035 OG) from Cardiff is a fine example of this type of Mild.

I made a large batch of Mild last year -- almost 25 gallons --
easily, on my half barrel system.  I brewed 12 gallons of 1.073
wort and then added 13 gallons of boiled, cooled, aerated water
to my primary fermenter.  (BTW, this was a 32 gallon food grade
plastic "trash can" open fermenter.)  In order to keep the body
and flavor of the beer up, I boiled for almost 2 hours, and my
mash went for saccharification at about 158F. I also chose to
use Wyeast 1028, which has a very distinctive, woody character,
so that the beer wouldn't turn out bland and uninteresting.

The Mild One
Soft Seattle Water
8.75 gal for mash in with 4.5 gm CaCO3, 4 gm CaCl2, 2 gm MgSO4

 8   lbs. US 2 row
17   lbs. Dewolf-Coysins Pale Ale
 3.5 lbs. Scottish Crystal (~35 L)
 2   lbs. Crystal 70L
 1.25lbs. Chocolate

Sparge with 8 gal. untreated soft water.  Boil off 3.75 gal.
during two hours, adding ~24 IBUs of Kent Goldings hops (based
on the final volume of the beer, in this case it was 170 gm of
6% alpha acid pellets).

The yeast starter was stepped up twice, with a quart and then a
half gallon of wort starter.  The primary finished in 4 days at
60F, and I racked into carboys for a week of clarification
before kegging.

The FG was 1.010, for a batch of beer that was about 3.2% by
volume, or about 2/3rds the strength of a standard beer.  It was
a dark brown in color, with a sweet initial palate and a
(relatively) full body and a dryish finish.  The yeast character
showed through in the middle, although there wasn't a lot of
fruitiness, probably due to the low fermentation temperatures.

Because there is so much variety in the various beers sold in
the UK under the name Mild (and for that matter, in Scotland as
60/'), this is hardly definitive of the style.  I've only tasted
about half a dozen Milds over there, and I know that I will be
more thorough about it eventually.  The best time to go, if that
is your inclination, is during May, when CAMRA has their "May is
Mild Month" campaign, and many brewers release special Milds
just to take advantage of it.

		--Darryl Richman


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 07 Nov 94 11:42:59 -0500
From: "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst at zk3.dec.com>
Subject: TSP



Re: cleaning bottles with TSP:

>I purchased was TSP-F phosphate-free.... Left behind was a layer of white film
>inside and outside the bottle.

>>I have been using TSP for each of the 8 batches I have done to clean
>>bottles. I have had nothing but excellent success of course YMMV! I buy my
>>TSP from _The Home Brewery_ in Missouri (800)321-BREW. I have never had a
>>residue problem. It could be the type of TSP perhaps?

TSP is Tri Sodium Phosphate and, due to a  Federal ban, will soon be
unavailable in the US.  Some manufacturers are producing a "TSP Substitute"
(that's the actual label on the boxes at the Home Depot) and maybe this is
what the TSP-F is. I suspect that the substitutes are not as good as the
real thing and my recommendation is to stock up on the real stuff while you
can.  It's about US$6 for a 5 pound box at a paint store or your life
savings at a home brew store :-).

The Federal ban was confirmed by several paint store owners (TSP is used as
a wall cleaner) but I would appreciate a post on the details.

Tony V.



- --Tony Verhulst

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Nov 1994 08:44:58 -0800 (PST)
From: malodah at pbgueuze.scrm2700.PacBell.COM (Martin Lodahl)
Subject: Gassy kegged beer and gassy brewer (fwd)

As I have no direct experience with this question, I'll pass this
message on to the HBD community.  Please reply to Kevin, not to
me.  Thanks!

Forwarded message:
> From: kane at ouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu
> 
>    From:  Kevin Kane                                 Dept:  Chemistry
>           KANE                                     Tel No:  593-1746
> 
> Subject:  Gassy kegged beer and gassy brewer
> 
> 	I don't know if you're into kegging your brew, but I seem to have 
> trouble with intestinal activity after I drink my force-carbonated beer.  I 
> don't really care, but my friends are being rather creative in their name 
> suggestions for my beers.  The word is getting around that a beer-tasting 
> soiree at my place is a gas.
> 	Any experience with this phenomemon?  I thought about posting this to 
> HBD but the control program doesn't like my mailer program.  Pass it on 
> if you think it's worthy of public discussion.
> 
> 	Thanks,
> 
> 		Kevin


Return to table of contents


Date:         Mon, 07 Nov 94 09:40:34 PST
From: Bob Tattershall <TATTERSH at WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU>
Subject:      are bulk extracts the same?

Someone else asked this question in reference to Alexanders and M&F, etc.  In
other words are these malts different?  I anticipate the answer will be that,
yes, they are different due to the differences in malting processes, thus the
purpose of malting your own barley.

My question is a little different.  I'm an extract brewer who buys "bulk"
extracts from Williams, Brewers Resource, The Beverage People, etc.  Are all
of these various companies malting their own extracts themselves, and thus
differentiating their product from other's products?  Or are they all buying
someone else's bulk malt and simply repackaging the same product under their
own label?

Anyone with a definitive answer?

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 7 Nov 94 13:22:02 EST
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Priming with green beer (revisited)

A while ago I posted some formulas for calculating the amount of gyle
you need to prime, based on the actual attenuation you got in your
fermentation.  However, I made a conceptual error in one assumption
upon which the formulas were based.  Here's a correction:

My original formula was based on the assumption that you want to get a
certain rise in the SG for priming.  This assumption was faulty.  Now
that I realized this, it's obvious.

What you really want to do is to add a certain amount of fermentable
sugar to the wort.  Thus, the final gravity of the beer is used ONLY
to compute the attenuation factor.  Here are the revised equations.

        V(b) = Volume of beer in fermenter
        V(w) = Volume of saved wort
        E(b) = "Extract" (1000 * (SG - 1)) of beer
        E(w) = "Extract" of saved wort
        E(m) = "Extract" of added sugar in volume (beer + wort)
        RA = Real attenuation of wort
        VC = Desired volume CO2

Attenuation is easily calculated as

(1)     RA = 0.82 * (1 - E(b)/E(w))

thus, the desired sugar level can be expressed (recalling that 1.6 "SG
points" gives 1 volume of CO2)

(2)     E(m) = VC * 1.6 / RA 
             = VC / (.51 * (1 - E(b)/E(w)))

Taking into account the dilution of the added wort into the beer, we
also have
                V(w) * E(w)
(3)     E(m) = -------------
                V(w) + V(b)

Combining (2) and (3) and rearranging gives
                           VC * V(b)
(4)     V(w) = ----------------------------------
                0.51 * [1-E(b)/E(w)] * E(w) - VC

Or, if you have a fixed quantity of initial wort, and save some to add
later, you get
                        VC * V(b)
(5)     V(w) = -----------------------------
                0.51 * [1-E(b)/E(w)] * E(w)

Now, let's take the example.  1.050 wort, 5 gallons beer, FG 1.008,
desired carbonation 1.5 volumes.  By (4), we have

        V(w) = 0.38 gallons = 1.5 quarts gyle
        RA = 69%

This is the equivalent of adding 4.25 ounces of sugar to 5.38 gallons
of beer, or 4 ounces to 5 gallons.  It's also the same as adding 6.7
ounces of DME (of 69% fermentability) to 5 gallons.

=Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI

Return to table of contents


Date: 7 Nov 94 12:52:00 CST
From: "DEV::SJK" <SJK%DEV.decnet at mdcgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Cheap kegs


There have been a LOT of requests for a cheap source of Cornelius kegs
lately.  I've responded to more than a couple privately, but this is
obviously of general interest.

How to Get Really Cheap Soda Kegs:  Virtually every scrapyard I've ever
been to has piles of these things.  Sometimes hundreds, both ball and pin,
and very often (but not always) for a mere $5 apiece.  You'll need to clean
the kegs out as there will still be some syrup/soda in them, and you'll
need to replace all five gaskets (~$3).  I don't replace the poppets and
instead I simply boil them in a little baking soda and water for 1-3
minutes.

Get out your yellow pages and start calling scrapyards.  Ask them for "soda
kegs".

I've found Sankeys and Golden Gate kegs to be almost as prevalent, usually
at about $10 apiece.

If you're in SoCal near Fairview and the 22, post me for the address of one
of the better yards I've been to.

Go get 'em!


Scott Kaczorowski
sjk at rc3a.mdc.com



Return to table of contents

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1573, 11/08/94