FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Re: Mikroklene (Zeek67)
  Wort oxygenation (Al Pacifico)
  Hop backs (Al Pacifico)
  Lactose Useage (MYETTE)
  advanced homebrew seminar (Ed Scolforo)
  Dixie Cup (Michael L Montgomery +1 708 979 4132)
  Removing lather due to aeration (Robert Rybczynski)
  Deschutes beers /  Crystal overdose (again) (Keith Frank)
  Wort Chiller ("Wood, Les")
  fix mash / ale into lager (RONALD DWELLE)
  Mashing Schedules (George J Fix)
  Fat Tire, AOB (Jeff Benjamin)
  RE: G. Fix mash schedule questio (PGBABCOCK)
  Dave's bar/ recipe request/ RIMS (Eamonn McKernan)
  Low Gravity Problem ("KEVIN FONS Q/T BPR X7814)
  Hop Utilization (Alan Folsom)
  ATC pH Meter (Eric Bender)
  info (Todd Lieberman)
  Re: Pathogens (Greg Owen {gowen})
  SUDS 3.1 v 3.0c IBUs (David Draper)
  BBC hops/another use for steam (Ronald Moucka)
  DNS Error (Shawn Steele)
  BBC Hops (Jim Ancona)
  Give me beer (Chris Smith)
  All grain pics/A-B Bottles/Coffee Beer/Hops clipart (Scott Howe)
  Boiling to remove chlorine? ("nancy e. renner")
  Competition Announcement (S.P.S. Beer Stuff)
  Vacuum vs Pressure Siphoning (Xtalale)
  Kegging & carbonation (Pat Anderson)
  =20? (Lance Stronk)
  dry hopping + kegging (abaucom)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 23:50:19 -0500
From: Zeek67 at aol.com
Subject: Re: Mikroklene

Lee Bussy writes in HB #1640

>Zeek67 writes in #1638 that Microklene (Ecolab's Iodine based 
>sanitizer) was not approved for food service.

>Zeek, let me know who it was that told you that as my brewing buddy 
>would love to know.  

>Mikroklene was designed for food service applications, and is FDA 
>approved for no rinse applications on surfaces, plates, utensils, etc. 
>at 12.5 ppm.  


I forget exactly what I said in my post but what I meant was that Ecolab's
"Iodophor II Sanitizing Udderwash" which Agway sells is not FDA approved.  I
know some people are currently using this.  I talked with a rep at the St.
Paul,MN office who told me which products are o.k. and which aren't. My notes
don't say whether the Mikroclean is FDA approved but if that's what the label
reads it must be.  As I stated however, it was the reps opinion that I should
use the "Diophor" product.  It sounds as if they make many similar products
of which more than one are probably o.k. to use.  Sorry if there was any
confusion.

Someone also sent me a message telling me about a product called Proclean 200
found in restaurant supply shops.  It sells for $22/gal.

I rinse the iodophors despite the claim that it is not necessary.  These
agents are powerful enough where they could effect yeast growth if they do
not fully evaporate.

~Zeek

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Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 21:22:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Al Pacifico <pacifico at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Wort oxygenation

  I brew in 10 gallon quanitities and do my first stage in a modified 10
gallon Cornelius-type keg. My kettle is a modified half-barrel keg with a
stainless nipple on the bottom and a large hole cut in the top. My wort is
chilled (possibly too much) in a countercurrent heat exchanger I made from
copper tubing and rubber hose.
  Since I switched from fermenting in carboys to this stainless steel
unit, I've noticed that fermentation has been less vigorous. When full,
the fermenter is heavy and I can't really pitch the wort to oxygenate it
(not that I ever did this to great extent when I used carboys). My
hypotheses regarding reduced fermentation activity center around too
little oxygenation or too much cooling. Since I never had this problem
with carboys, I figure it is the oxygen. 
  I have access to an oxygen tank and have been considering the following 
solutions.
  1. Low tech: Drill holes in the end of the chiller an inch from the
outlet so that air is sucked in (courtesy of Venturi). Potential problem
is foaming wort, preventing me from maximizing quantity. Plus is that I
don't have to beg my boss to let me have the oxygen tank for the weekend. 
  2. High tech #1: Add a pipe fitting that allows oxygen to be added to 
the hot wort as it enters the chiller. Plus is that cooling of the oxygen 
wort mixture would reduce foaming (I think) and turbulent flow through 
chiller would maximize oxygen-wort interface surface area. Potential 
badness is that oxygen tank would be close to burner and probably 
wouldn't explode, but you never know.
  3. High tech #2: Stainless steel pipe to immerse in kettle and blow
oxygen in. Disadvantage: solubility of oxygen in hot wort is lower at
higher temperatures (probably insignificant). Advantage: simple, low 
cost, no foaming.
  4. High tech #3: Seal primary fermenter and drive oxygen into wort 
under pressure. After a few hours, stop, bleed off pressure, and attach 
air lock. Advantage: eliminates the foam issue. Disadvantage: yeast could 
go nuts, overpressurize the keg, and I die in a bizarre brewing accident.

  Anyone have experience with this? I favor solution three. Has anyone had
success with oxygenating wort that has just been boiling? Do any Jedi
masters of chemistry know how much the oxygen solubility changes between
65F and 212F ? 
				Al Pacifico

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Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 21:25:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Al Pacifico <pacifico at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Hop backs

  Anyone know of an easy, inexpensive way to build a hop back to insert 
between the nipple of my boiling kettle and my wort chiller? If 
unfermented, cooled wort contacts hop leaves, it seems it is likely to 
get infected. Isn't this true?

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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 06:02:54 -0500 (EST)
From: MYETTE at delphi.com
Subject: Lactose Useage

Can someone explain to me how and why Lactose is used in homebrew?

Whats are its advantages and disadvantages? Anything special need to
    be done when suing it. Example: during brewing/mashing

Myette at delphi.com
`[1;37;43mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered

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Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 17:50:21 GMT
From: ed.scolforo at berkshirebbs.com (Ed Scolforo)
Subject: advanced homebrew seminar


In HBD 1640 Dudley Leaphart shared his opinion that the American
Brewer Guild's Advanced Homebrewing Seminar was essentially a waste
of time for anyone beyond the beginning all grain level. Having just
sent them $99 for one day of a two day seminar coming to Boston on March
18-19, I immediately panicked and called the ABG headquarters in Cal.
I was advised to speak with Bruce Winner, the president. He was
unavailable at that time but gave me the consideration of returning my
call, even tho I said I would call him tomorrow.In his opinion, this
course would deffinitely be informative for someone who's been all grain
brewing for less that two years, such as myself. He invited me to talk
to the seminar instructor, Ashton Lewis, and if I still felt the seminar
had nothing to offer me, they would refund me my check.I thought this to
be fair, and was impressed at the quick attention given me. I'm going to
attend this seminar based on Mr. Winner's recommendation. I offer this
to you in hopes it may be of help.
                                                Ed Scolforo

Ed.scolforo at berkshirebbs.com

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Date: 26 Jan 95 06:26:00 -0600
From: mlm01 at intgp1.att.com (Michael L Montgomery +1 708 979 4132)
Subject: Dixie Cup

OK, I've been patient, I've waited long enough... Has anyone else not
received scoresheets from Dixie Cup back in October?  I know that
this is a large competition, but it's been over 3 months since the
competition and I still do not have my score sheets. I did receive
a ribbon, but I do not have any feedback on my IPA. Am I the only one
that did not receive any feedback? If I do not receive any feedback,
should I receive any type of rebate? What should my next step be?

Thanks,

Mike Montgomery
mlm01 at intgp1.att.com


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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 11:07:06 -0500
From: Robert Rybczynski <robert at umbc.edu>
Subject: Removing lather due to aeration

Last night I had to shake a half-full carboy to aerate the wort. When I 
was done, a lather about 1 foot thick had formed. This created a problem 
with getting the rest of the water into the carboy. To make a long story 
short, I did the following: filled the carboy as high as I could with 
boiled-then-cooled water, put a solid stopper in the mouth of the 
carboy, put the carboy in the kitchen sink, and used the sprayer to gently 
spray hot water onto the carboy were the airspace was in the carboy. This 
increased the air pressure in the carboy, which forced down the lather!

Some notes:

1. The termperature of the wort was not elevated by a noticable amount. 
   The carboy was in a stainless steel sink that acted as a heat sink.
2. Every so often I removed the stopper and added more water to 
   decrease the airspace. I found that it was best to heat one small spot 
   first, then spread out.
3. I had to be careful that the carboy did not block the drain. At one 
   point I noticed that the carboy was sitting in a pool of hot water 
   because of this.

Robert Rybczynski
robert at umbc.edu


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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 10:22:37 -0600
From: keithfrank at dow.com (Keith Frank)
Subject: Deschutes beers /  Crystal overdose (again)

****** from Bruce DeBolt *********

Pardon the bandwidth.  

I'll be Walnut Creek, CA next week and am looking for a place to buy 
Deschutes Brewery's (Bend, OR) Black Butte Porter and Bachelor Bitter.  I've 
called the brewery but they go through a distributor and I had no luck with 
that call for details.  I looked in a few places last time I was in CA (no 
luck), hence the post.   I'll have a car so can drive anywhere in the Bay 
area.  Private reply please.

I'll re-ask a question from earlier this week.  Looking for experiences of 
HBD brewers on using lots of crystal in a predominately pale malt batch, 
i.e. 2-3 lbs of crystal in a grist with about 8 lbs pale 2-row.  Haven't 
found any information on this in my available sources.  Private reply also.

Thanks,
Bruce DeBolt

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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 95 11:44:00 PST
From: "Wood, Les" <WoodL at VYVX.TWC.COM>
Subject: Wort Chiller


A brew buddy and I are looking to build a simple copper or SS wort cooler
for a 5 gal. pot.  Does anyone know how many tubing coils are needed for
this volume, any special tubing i.d., or if a special grade of material is
needed other than what is available at a hardware store?  Also, what would
the optimal inside diamater of the chiller be for an 11" or 12" i.d. pot?

Thanks.  Lesmon  "woodl at vyvx.twc.com"

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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 95 11:50:59 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: fix mash / ale into lager

     I've seen several references to George Fix's notes on a 40-60-70 mash 
     in HBD. I obviously missed the original post and can't now locate it. 
     Can someone post the HBD-number or zap me a copy--dweller at gvsu.edu. On 
     the subject, is there a way for us cyber-impaired to search the sierra 
     archives (I don't think I have any built-in software to do it).
     
     Another subject: I love lagers & pilseners but brew only ales, because 
     of equipment, space, facility limitations, and that's not likely to 
     change. Is there anything published, or do any of you list gurus have 
     some good ideas, on how to replicate a nice German lager with an ale 
     receipe and ale yeast?
     
     Cheers,
     "Never trust a brewer whose inseam is bigger than his waist."

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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 95 11:22:52 -0600
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Mashing Schedules 


John Glaser writes in HBD#1641:

>Several months ago, there was a post by George Fix  
>regarding a 40-60-70 degree celsius (104-140-158F) mash schedule for  
>highly modified malts. I switched to this schedule and have gotten  
>good consistent results. I use 30 min at each time, BTW. I raise from  
>40 to 60C with a boiling infusion plus a little added heat, and use  
>stove to heat from 60 to 70C. I get a typical O.G. 1.050 and F.G. of  
>about 1.010 (from memory, I don't have my notebook here, and assuming  
>my hydrometer is not too far off the mark).

What is the typical malt concentration in lbs./gal.?

>  According to Dave Miller (Complete Handbook of Homebrewing, or  
>whatever), for starch to be available for conversion to sugar, the  
>starch must be gelatinized, which occurs for barley at 149F. So, what  
>does the rest at 140F accomplish? Or, is Miller's info outdated, and  
>if so, what is actually happening? I have noticed that the mash does  
>taste sweet at the end of the 140F rest, although I haven't measured  
>S.G. at this point.

I am aware of 4 different professional references which cite 4 different
temperatures for malt gelatinization. I have not done direct measurements
of the carbohydrate spectrum at the various stages of the mash (this
would make a neat Masters thesis for someone with an access to a HPLC!),
but it my feeling that gelantinization starts at much lower temperatures
than 65C (149F), but probably is not complete until the temperatures
reach the mid-60s. Nevertheless, I have found there is significant
beta-amalase activity and concurrent maltose production at 60C (140F).
In fact, varing the time taken at 60C is the best scheme known to me 
for varing wort fermentability.

The fermentability that is actually achieved depends a lot of other
factors other than wort fermentability. These include yeast strain,
yeast viability, wort aeration, fermenter geometry, et al. (Bob Jones
discussed some of these issue at the National Conference in Denver). 
The best way known to me for identifying the contribution from wort
fermentability is by a forced fermentation test (FFT - not to be confused
with the Fast Fourier Transform!). Remove a ~liter of chilled wort, aerate
it, and pitch with 2-3 times the normal concentration of yeast (say,
50-60 million cells per ml.). Hold the temperature at 25 C (77F),
and within 72-96 hrs. all the fermentables should be metabolized. The
final gravity from the FFT will likely be a tad lower than what is
achieved in the main batch, but the two should not differ by much.
What I like about a FFT is that it gives us a handle on wort fermentability
as well as info on how well we are doing with wort aeration and yeast
management.

George Fix



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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 09:23:46 -0800
From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com>

Subject: Club record breaking days

Ok out there in HBD land. Which club (U.S., World?) wants to claim the
single day quantity of homebrew made record? What might that record be?
We're interested in making an attempt at such a record, but we want to
know what to shoot for...

Thanks for your attention,
Rich Webb

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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 95 10:50:22 MST
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Fat Tire, AOB

I wanted to clear up any potential misinformation in Roger Grow's post
about Fat Tire Ale (have to stick up for the hometown breweries).

First of all New Belgium is in Fort Collins, Colorado, not Lakewood.
New Belgium Brewing makes Fat Tire, an amber ale, Sunshine Wheat, a
wheat beer obviously, and several Trappist ales:  Abbey, a single,
Trippel, and an occasional Grand Cru.  Roger mentions "that Fat Tire
wheat taste", but I'm not so sure Fat Tire does contain any wheat.  I'll
see if Jeff Lebesch will tell me next time I bump into him.

The second recipe says to use "#1214 Belgum Ale" or "culture from
several bottles of Fat Tire Belgium Ale".  Well, there's no such thing
as "Fat Tire Belgium Ale".  The recipe looks more like an amber ale than
a trappist single, but it's not clear to me which one they're trying to
emulate.  Needless to say, the recipe as is might be tasty, but won't
approximate anything that New Belgium brews.  The folks who do the Rocky
Mountain Homebrew newletter had better be more careful about their
sources.

Okay, on to something that might interest more than three people.  Lee
Bussy asks about email address for the Association of Brewers (AOB).
I recently received an informational mailing from someone I know who
works at AOB.  An excerpt:

> The Association of Brewers is a 17-year-old nonprofit organization devoted
> to the collection and dissemination of beer and brewing information on both
> amateur and commercial levels.  Four divisions operate within the Association
> of Brewers.
>
> American Homebrewers Association...
> Institute for Brewing Studies...
> Brewers Publications...
> The Great American Beer Festival...
 ...
> For more information on any of the Association of Brewers' divisions or to
> request a free catalog, please contact the Association of Brewers' office:
> Association of Brewers
> PO Box 1679
> Boulder, CO  80306-1679
> U.S.A.
>
> Voice:  (303) 447-0816    (Weekdays 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. Mountain Time)
> Fax:    (303) 447-2825
> E-Mail: info at aob.org
 ...
> More information can be requested from the Association's information e-mail
> line by sending e-mail to info at aob.org and including one or more of the
> following key words in the body of the e-mail:
>
>    AHAINFO:    Request more information about the American Homebrewer's
>                Association, including membership information.
>    HOWTOBREW:  A short guide explaining how to brew your first batch of
>                homebrew!
>    CALENDAR:   The American Homebrewers Association's Calendar of Events.
>    CRAFTBREW:  The Institute for Brewing Studies' Craft-Brewing Industry
>                chart.
>    AOBINFO:    General information about the Association of Brewers and its
>                four divisions.

You should be able to send email to "name at aob.org" if you know their login.

- --
Jeff Benjamin                               benji at fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co.                         Fort Collins, Colorado	
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
					    - T.S. Eliot



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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 13:28:40 -0500
From: PGBABCOCK at aol.com
Subject: RE: G. Fix mash schedule questio

John Glasser writes:
                                                          
                        
                                                      
'...for starch to be available for conversion to sugar, the starch must be
gelatinized, which occurs for barley at 149F.'
                                              
                                                                
Flame me if I'm wrong, but...                 
                                

                                                                             

Gelatinization is only required for UNMALTED barley, as well as other
 whole-grain adjuncts. The starches in malted barley have been made available
through the enzymatic action of malting itself. The protein rest at 140F provi
des time and temperature for the conversion of remaining starches.

HIH...

Brew on!
P.G. Babcock
PGBABCOCK at AOL.COM   
BREWBEERD at AOL.COM
NVP67C at PRODIGY.COM
USFMCHQL at IBMMAIL.COM


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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 95 13:53:14 EST
From: Eamonn McKernan <eamonn at rainbow.physics.utoronto.ca>
Subject: Dave's bar/ recipe request/ RIMS

Warning: I have never kegged in my life. Having said that, it seems like Dave
could always have cold beer out of his tap if he had one of those cold
plates people stick inn their fridge. The beer still in the line coming
up from the basement would be warm, and a cold plate cold handle chilling
it, and by the time the cold plate was done in (they're only good for a few
beers at one time), cold beer from the keg would be on its way up, and 
wouldn't need chilling. Just a thought.

A friend asked if I could post a recipe request. He wants a reasnoably dark
(read: flavourful) ale. Kind of along the lines of a Smithwicks, but with
less bitterness, yet more hop flavour. I guess that would invole later 
additions of a fair amount of hops. Malt extract only. TIA

Finally, a truly different request: I want to make a RIMS setup that is
more complicated than it need be. More complicated in what way? Doesn't
matter, as long as it works. WHY??? I'm taking a graduate course in 
microprocessor interfacing techniques. My final project is to build anything
I want, that involves some reasonable level of computer interfacing. My first
thought: an automated beermaker! But a RIMS setup doesn't need terribly
much control. The software end would only require temperature control, a
pump, and maybe some valves. The prof wants some reasonably complicated
programming to happen, so the RIMS seems too basic. RIMS builders feel free
to correct me on this point. With a RIMS the hardware side would be truly
challenging, but won't be worth many marks. One further complication: I don't
have a computer, and don't want to spend tons of money on this project. I 
figure grab an obsolete 8086 from somewhere, and hopefully only fork out
<$200 (preferably <$100) for it and the kettles, tubing, pump, etc. Does
anyone think this to be even remotely possible? Please?

	Eamonn McKernan
	eamonn at rainbow.physics.utoronto.ca

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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 13:40:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: "KEVIN FONS Q/T BPR X7814 <KFONS at china.qgraph.com>" <KFONS at china.qgraph.com>
Subject: Low Gravity Problem

I am having a problem with my orginal gravity being lower than what the recipe
specifies.  For example I just brewed a Scotch Ale, the recipe staed an OG of
1.060 and my measured OG was 1.050.  The interesting thing is that I used more
crystal malt and carapils than the recipe called for.  I steeped the grains for
about 30 min between 150 and 170 degrees. Then added the extract and boiled for
75 minutes.  My brewing is extract based with specialty grains added.  The beer 
tastes good, however, I am curious about the variation in gravity.  What am I
doing "wrong"?

TIA,
 Kevin

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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 12:13:59 -0800
From: folsom at ix.netcom.com (Alan Folsom)
Subject: Hop Utilization

I am going through the process of trying to calculate IBU values, and 
have read the formulas by Rager in the 1990 special issue of Zymurgy, as 
well as the book "Using Hops" by Mark Garetz.  After some 
experimentation, it seems the biggest affect on calculated IBU levels is 
the %utilization value, despite all the other correction factors 
discussed in the Garetz book.  Unfortunately, these two sources differ 
widely, and I recall some discussion as to the appropriate utilization 
values being different from both sources.  Does anyone have any wisdom 
to share on appropriate values to use for the %utilization for different
boil times?  If this subject has been beat to death sometime in the last 
few months during my absence, please forgive me, and reply by email.

Thanks for any help.

Al Folsom


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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 15:46:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Bender <benderec at ttown.apci.com>
Subject: ATC pH Meter



Per Dave Miller in Brewing Techniques Jan/Feb 1995, he states that ATC pH 
meters will adjust the reading that would reflect the sample at 60-70 F 
According to a representative at Corning Inc this is not true and in fact 
ATC will give you a reading  at the temperature of the sample. The tech. 
representative I spoke to insists ATC does not adjust the reading to 
reflect that sample at room temperature. Also a pH conversion chart to 
compensate for temperature can be found on bottles of Corning (and 
probably other) buffer solutions. Any comments on this issue would be 
appreciated as I'm still unsure about this issue
     
                                   Eric Bender
                                   
   



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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 16:09:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Todd Lieberman <tlieberm at ccat.sas.upenn.edu>
Subject: info

Please send info. Thanks!

Todd

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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 14:36:20 PST
From: gowen at xis.xerox.com (Greg Owen {gowen})
Subject: Re: Pathogens

> During the brewing/fermenting process, the pH of the beer just keeps on
> lowering and lowering. I think it bottoms out around 4 (I'm not an expert I
> just pretend to be one).   Anyhow, There are no *known* pathogens that can
> survive in a medium of this acidity level. In fact, there are few organisms
> period that can live in such a hellish environment. 
> 
> The alcohol that is produced during fermentation is another factor in limiting
> the growth of organisms - esp. pathogens.

	If this is true, than what happens if the nasties get the first
crack at the wort?  In other words, is it possible that a dangerous 
organism could get started in the wort before the yeast does and keep
the yeast from getting a foothold?  If this happened, then there wouldn't
be lowering Ph and there wouldn't be alcohol to kill nasties.

	Anyone?  Anyone?  Bueller?

Greg Owen { gowen at cs.tufts.edu, at xis.xerox.com } http://www.cs.tufts.edu/~gowen/
 1.01 GCS/GO d++ p+ c++ l++ u++ e+ -m+ s++/- n- h !(f)? g+ -w+ t+ r-- y?
 "For when you're alone/When you're alone like he was alone/You're either or
neither/I tell you again it dont apply/Death or life or life or death." TSE

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Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 09:49:09 +1100 (EST)
From: David Draper <David.Draper at mq.edu.au>
Subject: SUDS 3.1 v 3.0c IBUs

Dear Friends, Chuck M. commented on the Garetz-based IBU routine in SUDS v
3.1, by Michael Taylor.  I have been on about this since the day it was
uploaded to the archives, and after a fairly extensive effort in
collecting data, have contributed to Mike's decision to allow the user to
choose which set of utilization data to use in making IBU calcs.  This
option will be included in subsequent releases.  I will be collecting the
utilization data for him and will send it along in a couple of days.

This past weekend, while Domenick Venezia was visiting, he, Andy Walsh,
Ken Willing, Chris Pittock, and myself had a beer 'n' dinner 'n' beer
evening at Kens's place, and several of Ken's beers had been made using
the 3.1 formulations, and were conclusively identified to be way
overbittered (no one knew until days later that 3.1 had been used).  I
have heard from many others via email and r.c.b. on this, and no one has
supported the Garetz-based formulations.  So: use 3.0c until the next
version is released.

"Hop" this helps, Dave in Sydney
- --
"Life's a bitch, but at least there's homebrew" ---Norm Pyle
******************************************************************************
David S. Draper, School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, NSW 2109
Sydney, Australia. email: david.draper at mq.edu.au fax: +61-2-850-8428
             ....I'm not from here, I just live here....



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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 16:27:17 GMT
From: rmoucka at omn.com (Ronald Moucka)
Subject: BBC hops/another use for steam

Brewers,

The day I posted my question about what ever happened to the
Boston Beer Co hop offer, I received a calendar from BBC
with their address and phone on the first page.  Cool daily
calendar with a beer quote or trivia for each day of the
year.  They can be had free of charge by writing BBC at The
Brewery, 30 Germania St., Boston, MA 02130 or call 617 522-
3400.  Say what you will about Jim Koch and his business
practices, they make a decent beer and if you can overlook
the blatant commercialism of their freebees, they are nice.
Anyway, as for the hops, they are still available.
According to the person answering the phone at BBC, they are
waiting for a large enough number of orders to make a bulk
mailing.  One pound of Mittlefreuh hops (pellets I think) for
$12.  Send a check to the above address.  My thanks to those
of you who answered my post.  Hope this answers any
questions.

On another note, I've noticed a lot of talk about steam
lately.  I have another use for steam that was suggested by
a member of my local brew club.  I've been using it for a
few years now with no ill effects.  I use steam to clean my
kegs.  I picked up a tea pot at a second hand store for 25
cents.  Take a drilled rubber stopper (#8 I think) and
insert a short piece of copper tubing (4").  Now attach a 4-
6' piece of hose to the copper tube and a liquid disconnect
on the other end.  Now simply insert the stopper in the tea
pot and connect the liquid disconnect to the keg.  Make sure
you attach a gas disconnect to the other side of the keg to
vent out the steam.  Put some water in your tea pot and
boil.  The steam will sanitize the kegs and poppets in 15-20
minutes.  Make sure your system is open or the pressure will
build up and blow your stopper across the room in no time.
Takes an hour or two to cool and you will want to drain the
condensation from the keg.  I've never had a contamination
problem using this method.  YMMV All disclaimers apply.

Brew On,
       .:.
      :.:.
    /|~~~~|
   (_| D  |
     |  B |   Ron Moucka, Brewmaster
     `----'   DayBar Brewing, Ltd.
  "It's not so much an indication of our legal structure
   as it is a reflection of our abilities."
rmoucka at omn.com

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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 11:13:49 -0700
From: Shawn Steele <shawn at aob.org>
Subject: DNS Error

> I received a note from Shawn ath AOB about the GABF but the mail I 
> sent back bounced.
> 
> Can anyone give me a better address?

     The AOB had a DNS (Domain Name Server) problem (our Internet access
provider accidentally erased the entry for aob.org)  If you resend your message
it should be working now.

     Likewise all info at aob.org and other messages to aob.org will have bounced,
so please try again.  If anyone has further problems, please let me know.

     Since I'm writing this anyway, I'd like to mention that we have a new web
site at "http://www.aob.org/aob"  It's not a lot yet but we hope to have a nice
place to visit in the next few months.

have fun,
 - shawn

Shawn Steele
Information Systems Administrator
Association of Brewers                 (303) 447-0816 x 118 (voice)
736 Pearl Street                       (303) 447-2825       (fax)
PO Box 1679                            shawn at aob.org        (e-mail)
Boulder, CO  80306-1679                info at aob.org         (aob info)

- ------------------------------

Subject: Competitions

Someone mentioned a bias toward all-grain vs. extract brewing in AHA sanctioned
competitions.  I'm going to stick my neck out here 'cause its not exactly my
department, but I was under the impression (IMHO) that AHA competitions were
"blind" with the judges knowing neither the brewer's name or the recipe used.
Like I said, this is my opinion and I'm not 100% positive (or even 25% sure),
so this isn't a guarantee or anything.

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Date: 26 Jan 95 15:04:40 EDT
From: Jim Ancona <Jim_Ancona.DBS at dbsnotes.dbsoftware.com>
Subject: BBC Hops

In HBD 1641, rmoucka at omn.com (Ronald Moucka) writes:
>About 3 months ago I sent Jim and the good folks at Boston
>Brewing Co (tm) a check for $12.00 for a pound of the
>illusive Mittlefrueh hops rumored to be available to
>homebrewers.  Although the check has not been cashed, I
>never heard a word from them.  Has anyone else out there
>tried this and received anything from them?  Unfortunately,
>I don't seem to be able to put my hands on their address or
>phone.  Can anyone help me here?

I'm replying to the list because I suspect Ron and I aren't the only ones in 
this fix. I'm in the same boat, with the added complication that I'm attempting 
to close out the bank account the check is written on. The BBC number is 
617-482-1332. The person you want to talk to is Lucy Sholley. She was very 
pleasant, and referred me to their mail fulfillment company. The person there 
told me that they (the fulfillment house) have nothing to do with any checks. 
BBC just sends them the names and they mail out the hops. She did promise to 
talk to Lucy and get back to me, and to send out my hops in the meantime. This 
all happened today before I got HBD, so I don't have a final resolution yet. 
I'll post when I see my hops and/or my check.

Jim
- --
janco at dbsoftware.com


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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 19:13:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Smith <CHSMITH at hws.edu>
Subject: Give me beer



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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 15:19:57 -0800
From: Scott Howe <howe at appmag.com>
Subject: All grain pics/A-B Bottles/Coffee Beer/Hops clipart

Good day Brewers and Brewsters!

  I am a new subscriber (Yes, I just recieved my third issue), I am glad to 
know  such a group is available to us as brewers to talk about the wonderful
substance called Beer.  I want to reply to a couple of things I've seen so far 
this week.  

  Re: Pictures of All Grain Brewing.
	The catolog from Hoptech has an excellent picture of their sparging 
system.  Call them at 1-800-DRY-HOPS.  I also consider them a Bible of info on 
Dry-Hopping. 

  Re:  A-B's Use Of Non-reuseable Bottles.
	Just one more reason to not drink any of Budmillercoors' products.  
One other poor excuse for bottles is clear Miller Genuine Draft bottles.  A 
buddy of mine used some once and broke about 6 of them just during the capping, 
and about that many after a week in the bottles... 

  Re: Coffee Beer.
	I tried a coffee porter once and had bad luck.  This may be because I
put the ground coffee in the primary fermenter, or it may be because I used
too much coffee (1/4 pound!).  The beer smelled like tomatoe vines (Yuck!).  
Keep us updated on the status of your brew, and the technique used.  I would 
like to try again someday.

Now for a Question:  Does anyone out there have any good clip-art of Hops? 
I am a real big Hop-head and want to use it on letter heads, etc. 
If you do and it is on-line somewhere, Please either send it to me, or tell me 
where to send to to get it.


   Happy Brewing, everybody!
        --Aubrey Howe, III

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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 20:01:27 -0500 (EST)
From: "nancy e. renner" <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Boiling to remove chlorine?

(From *Jeff* Renner)

In HBD 1641, Al K. said:

>Also, I recommend pre-boiling that 4 gallons of tapwater
>the day before brewing 1) to sanitize it, 2) to drive off chlorine <snip>

Since the Ann Arbor municipal water supply now uses monochloroamine to
chlorinate its water, and this is essentially not removable by boiling
(you have to use an activated charcoal filter), I thought I'd check to see
how common this is.  I spoke to Larry Sanford, the water chemist at the AA
water treatment plant.  He said that AA is probably the only plant in the
state to use this, and he guesses that only about 15% of plants in the US
do.  I asked if it were required by federal regulations, and he said no,
that they require only that a disinfectant be present in effective levels
to the consumer's tap, and that this is the best method.  It isn't new,
either.  Denver has been using it for 70 years.  Ozone is used only
the treatment plant; it doesn't last long enough to be effective in
the mains.

This has been the topic of some speculation in the past, including by me, 
and I hope this helps.  If in doubt, phone your water treatment plant.

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu

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Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 22:32:50 -0700
From: SPSBEER at ins.infonet.net (S.P.S. Beer Stuff)
Subject: Competition Announcement

- ---
Attention homebrewers and judges:

The CRAZY Homebrewers of Cedar Rapids Iowa are pleased to announce their
first AHA sanctioned homebrew competition, "Hop Into Spring", to be held
on Saturday March 18, 1995.  The competition will focus on the hoppy beer
styles listed below.  For more information on entering or judging this
competition check out this page:

   http://www.infonet.net/showcase/spsbeer/crazy/his.html

or email Gary Spiess, competition organizer,  spiess at norand.com
or Mike Snyder, director of judges,  spsbeer at ins.infonet.net

Hop Into Spring styles to be accepted and judged according to
1995 AHA Category Descriptions:

        Brown Ale:  4c American Brown
         Pale Ale:  5a Classic English, 5b IPA, 6a American
            Stout: 11a Classic Dry, 11b Foreign Style, 11d Imperial
          Pilsner: 15a German, 15b Bohemian
California Common: 23a California Common Beer
- ---


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Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 03:04:06 -0500
From: Xtalale at aol.com
Subject: Vacuum vs Pressure Siphoning

Hi All,
I'm a long-time lurker, first-time poster.  I really think this forum is a
gas!  I've incorporated many tips/techniques that I've read here to my own
process, so, after reading Dave Miller's column in the latest BT  (vol. 5,
#1) about the dangers of starting a siphon with pressure, I thought I'd share
my method for vacuum siphoning.  I know I'm not the first to think of this,
but if it saves someone's life (or a precious batch of brew), than it's
probably worth me breaking out of lurk.  

All that's needed is one of those orange carboy caps (you may have to try a
few - some don't really fit tightly), a piece of  3/8" I.D. Tygon about 3
feet long (for applying the suction necessary to create a vacuum in the
carboy),  and a short piece (6" or so) of plastic racking cane (or copper
tubing the same size) with several small "carburetor" holes drilled in it,
for racking from the kettle and aerating the wort.  If racking from primary,
you'll need a longer piece (without holes, of course) that will reach to the
bottom of the carboy to minimize splashing.

Clean and sanitize the receiving carboy (and purge with carbon dioxide, if
racking from primary) and the other above pieces, stick the piece of cane
through the large center hole on the cap (leaving an inch or so sticking out
of the top of the cap), attach the 'vacuum' Tygon to the stem part of the
cap, and snap the cap onto the carboy.  Attach a whole racking cane to one
end of a longer piece of Tygon (a regular racking set-up) and stick the the
other end of the 'racking' Tygon onto the end of the cane sticking out of the
center hole on the carboy cap.

Now, all you have to do is hold/suspend the end of the racking cane in the
kettle/primary, and suck on the end of the 'vacuum' Tygon with one good,
strong pull (use your mouth and cheeks more than your lungs and don't let it
pull air back into the carboy from your mouth - practice with water first).
 You'll probably be surprised at how little effort is really needed to get a
flow going.  I find that if I pinch or bend the 'racking' Tygon slightly
 near its attachment to the racking cane, the bubble that forms there will go
away.  

You'll observe that, once beer starts flowing, there will be a positive air
flow 'out' of the Tygon that you sucked.  Unless you let the vacuum in the
carboy pull air out of your mouth while sucking, instead of beer into the
other end, I  believe you won't expose the beer to any potential
contamination - at least, I've never experienced any.

This description took far longer than the above procedure and probably reads
as a pretty complicated technique, but it's really quite easy.  I hope that
the majority of the HBD readership feel that this was worth the length
(whew!) and if I am wrong about the possibilty of contamination, someone
please tell me!  

Thank Ninkasi for the HBD!
Carlos Felipe  (xtalale at aol.com)

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Date: Wed, 25 Jan 95 06:51:00 -0800
From: pat.anderson at f52.n343.z1.fidonet.org (Pat Anderson)
Subject: Kegging & carbonation


>From: Lee Bollard <bollard at spk.hp.com>
>Subject: Conditioning

>I keg my beer.  I've been racking from secondary into a corny keg, and
>immediately placing it in the fridge with CO2 attached for carbonating.

>Would I improve the taste of the beer by letting it "condition" at room
>temperature after racking to the keg, and before chilling/carbonating?
>How long?

Lee, I would suggest force carbonating by gentle agitation, and
then putting it in the fridge. The foam will subside overnight,
and within a week the cold break will have settled.  Perfectly
carbonated, crystal clear beer...

Use your pressure/temperature/volume chart to determine what you
need to achieve the correct carbonation level.  Example:  my
cellar temp is 60^ F. and I want 2.5 volumes of CO2.  I purge the
keg and rack the well settled (or preferably fined) beer over.
Per the chart, I need approximately 23 psi. Pressurize your CO2
line and attach it to the keg.  Sit on a chair with the keg
across your lap, gas side up.  Alternately raise one knee then
the other for 10 minutes (in tune with, say, _American_Pie_ -
avoid heavy metal!).  That's it - you beer is now carbonated.

Here is the chart:
                      Volumes of CO2 desired

Tmp  2.0  2.1  2.2  2.3  2.4  2.5  2.6  2.7  2.8  2.9  3.0

32F  3.5  4.4  5.4  6.3  7.3  8.2  9.2 10.1 11.0 12.0 12.9
34F  4.3  5.3  6.3  7.3  8.2  9.2 10.2 11.2 12.1 13.1 14.1
36F  5.1  6.2  7.2  8.2  9.2 10.2 11.2 12.3 13.3 14.3 15.3
38F  6.0  7.0  8.1  9.1 10.2 11.2 12.3 13.3 14.4 15.4 16.5
40F  6.8  7.9  9.0 10.1 11.2 12.3 13.4 14.4 15.5 16.6 17.7
42F  7.7  8.8 10.0 11.1 12.2 13.3 14.4 15.5 16.7 17.8 18.9
44F  8.6  9.7 10.9 12.1 13.2 14.4 15.5 16.7 17.8 19.0 20.1
46F  9.5 10.7 11.8 13.0 14.2 15.4 16.6 17.8 19.0 20.2 21.3
48F 10.4 11.6 12.8 14.0 15.3 16.5 17.7 18.9 20.1 21.4 22.6
50F 11.3 12.5 13.8 15.0 16.3 17.6 18.8 20.1 21.3 22.6 23.8
52F 12.2 13.5 14.8 16.1 17.3 18.6 19.9 21.2 22.5 23.8 25.1
54F 13.1 14.4 15.7 17.1 18.4 19.7 21.1 22.4 23.7 25.0 26.3
56F 14.0 15.4 16.7 18.1 19.5 20.8 22.2 23.6 24.9 26.3 27.6
58F 15.0 16.4 17.8 19.2 20.6 21.9 23.3 24.7 26.1 27.5 28.9
60F 15.9 17.3 18.8 20.2 21.6 23.1 24.5 25.9 27.4 28.8 30.2
62F 16.9 18.3 19.8 21.3 22.7 24.2 25.7 27.1 28.6 30.0 31.5
64F 17.8 19.3 20.8 22.3 23.8 25.3 26.8 28.3 29.8 31.3 32.8
66F 18.8 20.3 21.9 23.4 25.0 26.5 28.0 29.6 31.1 32.6 34.1
68F 19.8 21.4 22.9 24.5 26.1 27.6 29.2 30.8 32.4 33.9 35.5
70F 20.8 22.4 24.0 25.6 27.2 28.8 30.4 32.0 33.6 35.2 36.8
72F 21.8 23.4 25.1 26.7 28.4 30.0 31.6 33.3 34.9 36.5 38.2
74F 22.8 24.5 26.2 27.8 29.5 31.2 32.9 34.5 36.2 37.9 39.5
76F 23.8 25.5 27.2 29.0 30.7 32.4 34.1 35.8 37.5 39.2 40.9
78F 24.9 26.6 28.4 30.1 31.8 33.6 35.3 37.1 38.8 40.5 42.3
80F 25.9 27.7 29.5 31.2 33.0 34.8 36.6 38.3 40.1 41.9 43.7

  Beers to be dispensed from the keg should be 
carbonated to between 2.0 and 2.5 volumes, depending on 
style.  Beers that you intend to carbonate in the keg 
for counterpressure bottling should be carbonated to a 
higher level, 2.5 up to as much as 3.0 volumes, 
depending on style.





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Date: 27 Jan 1995 07:28:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Lance Stronk <S29033%22681 at utrcgw.utc.com>
Subject: =20?

I don't=
=20think

I like=
=20 this=
=20 '=20'=
=20thing.=
=20What's up=
=20with=
=20that?=
=20Does=
=20anyone else=
=20receive their=
=20HBD=
=20with the=
=20'=20' all throughout=
=20the text=
=20?WTF Over=
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=09=20=20=09=20
Sincerely,

=20.

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Date: Fri, 27 Jan 95 7:59:07 EST
From: abaucom at fester.swales.com
Subject: dry hopping + kegging

I would like to hear some opinions about dry hopping...specifically what
are your preferences between:

1) dry hopping in a secondary for a few weeks and THEN put into a keg
  or
2) rack from secondary into a keg and throw a weighted hop bag into
   the keg and seal...

thanks for your input...

 -Andrew

- ------
"Spalding....Nooooooo!"

Andrew W. Baucom, abaucom at fester.swales.com

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1643, 01/28/95