HOMEBREW Digest #1661 Sat 18 February 1995

Digest #1660 Digest #1662

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  irish moss/beer engine (ESMPD)" <gcunning at Census.GOV>
  Re: Cask ideality/CO2-filled keg to reduce Real Ale oxidation (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Isinglass Preparation ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
  Re: Stout; ESB yeast (Dave Coombs)
  enamel vs. Stainless ("PWK Info. Sys. #6166")
  B-Brite (Matt_K)
  Style Guidelines on the 'net (Shawn Steele)
  Guinness and that elusive sour taste (Jeffrey M. Collins)
  Burtonisation/Isinglass (Paul Murray)
  triple beam balance ("Charles S. Jackson")
  Re:automated brewing...valves (RPMTPLHS)
  Isinglass Preparation ("Robert W. Mech")
  Zymomonas and The New Basement Blues... ("Patrick G. Babcock")
  Fass Frisch Party-Star Question (Paul Gibson)
  Partial Mash Recipe's (Ray Louvier)
  Paddles, pots and other wonderful stuff! ("Karl F. Lutzen")
  RE: Yeast Genecide (bonehead move)/Carbonation of Wyeast London ESB (david lawrence shea)
  Extract & gravity (Mark A. Stevens)
  RE:paddles (Jim Busch)
  GOTT cooler mashing and manifold design ("I see them through a crystal haze, And hear them bouncing round the room  16-Feb-1995 1010 -0500")
  thermometers, klutz-wise (RONALD DWELLE)
  Re: First All-Grain ("Thomas Aylesworth")
  Wheeler on "Dropping" (Jim Cave)
  Signup? (RHENDRY)
  Gott (Pat Anderson)
  Phalse Bottom or copper manifold? (Bob Eddy, ext. 5930)
  Getting pumped up! ("Brian Ellsworth, 203-286-1606")
  1995 AHA style guidelines locations/Dunkelweizen (MHANSEN)
  Banana aroma (Sean C. Cox)
  Anderson Valley Yeast (Diane S. Put)
  Lesson Plan (Gregory J Egle)
  IBU levels (Fredrik Stahl)

****************************************************************** * NEW POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail, * I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list * that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox * is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced * mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days. * * If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only * sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get * more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list. ****************************************************************** Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu ARCHIVES: An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at ftp.stanford.edu. Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full e-mail address as the password, look under the directory /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory. AFS users can find it under /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer. If you do not have ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail service at gatekeeper.dec.com. For information about this service, send an e-mail message to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com with the word "help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 14:16:58 -0500 (EST) From: "Jerry Cunningham (ESMPD)" <gcunning at Census.GOV> Subject: irish moss/beer engine Hey, A while back, somebody quite respected here on HBD (Dr. Fix or Jim Busch maybe?) wrote concerning the optimum amount / time-in-boil when using irish moss. I think they had _actual scientific evidence_ to back it up, too! Does anybody still have this info? Lately I've seen widely varying opinions about how much to add (anywhere from 1/4 tsp - 3 Tbs) and when. Jerry Cunningham Annapolis, MD ps What's a beer engine? Return to table of contents
Date: 15 Feb 95 13:30:00 -0600 From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: Re: Cask ideality/CO2-filled keg to reduce Real Ale oxidation David writes: >When I used a pressure barrel in the UK, I made every >conceivable effort to keep O2 out of the barrel, by purging with the CO2 >injector while I was affixing the top and goosing it periodically as well. >Nevertheless, in every single instance of non-rapid consumption (i.e. beer >surviving longer than a couple weeks), once about 3/4 of the beer was >gone, it began to taste strongly of oxidation--cardboardy, sherry-like. >As my brewpal Ken Willing says, "That's all very well in practice; but >will it work in *theory*?" :-} I suspect that the problem was not in the headspace, but in the container itself. All the "pressure barrels" I've seen coming from the UK have been made of polythene (called polyethylene in the US). This plastic is notorious for being permiable to oxygen and, despite what appears to be intuitive (that the CO2 pressure inside would keep O2 out) is, alas, not how it works. Even though you purged the headspace O2 out with CO2, O2 still got to the beer through the walls of the barrel itself. Sure, the beer would have oxidized faster if the headspace were not purged, so this procedure does have merit, but unless you used a stainless steel or glass (low pressures only folks!) container, the oxidation through the plastic walls is inevitable. **** P.G. writes: >Connect a line from the beverage out >fitting of the CO2-filled keg to the beverage out fitting of the beer-filled >keg. Open the gas in fitting or pressure relief valve of tHE co2 keg, and tap >the gas out fitting of the beer keg in the manner described above. Since CO2 >is heavier than air, your gravity system will now draw CO2 from the second >keg instead of air. This method was successful in keeping a CAMRA-style ale >fresh tasting for the month it took to consume it <G>. As I read this: the beer flowing out of the beer keg will draw gas from the gas keg which will draw air from the outside to replace loss in the gas keg. If this is the case, I see a problem with it. CO2 is heavier than air, but it's a gas. It is tempting to think of it as a liquid, sitting in the bottom of your keg with air at the top, but it doesn't work that way. If the keg is partially filled with CO2 and partially filled with air, the two will be separate *at first* but diffusion will soon mix the gasses into an even distribution. As for why your ale remained fresh-tasting, perhaps it was a higher-gravity ale -- according to the article on Beer From Stainless in BT, higher-gravity ales will keep quite a bit longer than lower-gravity ones. If you keep the keg cold between serving sessions, this will also reduce the rate at which oxidation takes its toll. Finally, since at first you were pulling 100% CO2 into the beer keg and then 90% CO2, then 80% CO2... your procedure did in fact reduce the amount of oxygen available to do harm, so it *does* help, but it is not as ideal as it initially may appear. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 11:55:00 MST From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil> Subject: Isinglass Preparation RE: HBD #1658 >From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com> >Subject; Isinglass Preparation - Why? Domenick asked why so much prep for isinglass when it's just expensive gelatin, referring to the posts suggesting a 24 hour water soak for isinglass. Although I can't answer that, here's some related information: I can only get liquid isinglass at my homebrew shop. I've read that this is a real advantage because it doesn't require any preparation, and the dealer keeps it cold--of course it's been warm during shipment, I assume. The book that said the liquid stuff is good I believe referred to it as "pre-hydrolyzed" isinglass, and since there seems to be a number chemists out there, I ask what this means, in layman's terms. "Hydrolyzed" does not sound like "dissolved" to me. The only problem with the info on isinglass preparation that was posted earlier and the use of this liquid stuff is in getting analogous concentrations. The pre-hydrolyzed isinglass comes in a bottle with a recommended usage rate, but does not say anything such as "contains x mg dehydrated isinglass per L" to indicate its concentration. Any guidance from 'the HBD community' is appreciated. Kirk R Fleming -flemingkr at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil -BEER: It's not just for breakfast anymore. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 15:30:31 -0500 From: Dave Coombs <coombs at cme.nist.gov> Subject: Re: Stout; ESB yeast rich at lenihan.iii.net (Rich Lenihan) writes that he uses 1# of 500L roasted barley for color/flavor in his stout. My high precision ;) 5 G dry stout recipe uses something like (if memory serves): 7-8# pale malt 1# crystal or flaked barley or both 1# chocolate malt hops to taste Sometimes I add a # of roasted barley, but the basic recipe seems to satisfy my guests. Regarding ESB yeast (and others) you won't believe the short lag times you'll get by dumping your new batch right onto the yeast of the previous batch. The primary yeast does seem anecdotally a bit more vigorous than secondary yeast, so dumping on the lees of a single stage ferment of, say, a week seems to work well. But it will still work well with the secondary if you've already racked. david.coombs at nist.gov, Gaithersburg MD Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 14:54:20 -0500 (CDT) From: "PWK Info. Sys. #6166" <TGEHRMANN at hop.qgraph.com> Subject: enamel vs. Stainless So here goes my first post. I have a choice between two pots to boil my wort with. One is Stainless steel but has a very thin bottom. The other is an enamel pot with a much heavier bottom. Both would cost me about the same and both are about the same size(20 quart ss and 22 quart enamel). So what is the consensus of the net? I need to get a good(well, ok good and cheap) pot as I have been borrowing one from a neighbor and I can't keep doing that! Sorry, no fancy way of signing my name yet. Tom Gehrmann Sussex, WI Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 16:26:40 est From: Matt_K at ceo.sts-systems.ca Subject: B-Brite Message: I feel kind of stupid asking but what is B-Brite and where can I get it? I tried several homebrew stores and drew a blank. I'm sure private E-mail is fine. TIA Matt Montreal Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 12:53:36 -0700 From: Shawn Steele <shawn at aob.org> Subject: Style Guidelines on the 'net I've noticed a few posts requesting a source for the AHA style guidelines on the 'net, so I put them up. You can get a copy of the 1995 Category descriptions by e-mail by sending e-mail to info at aob.org containing the key word "STYLES" somewhere in the message. The 1995 National Homebrew Competition rules are also available by using the keyword "RULES". Please remember that info at aob.org is automated and "real people" don't usually read messages sent to info at aob.org. Hopefully the style guidelines and rules will also be available on the AOB's web site (http://www.aob.org/aob) by the time this message gets distributed. If anyone would like to see any of our other free information at either http://www.aob.org/aob or info at aob.org, please let me know - shawn Shawn Steele Information Systems Administrator (303) 447-0816 x 118 (voice) Association of Brewers (303) 447-2825 (fax) 736 Pearl Street shawn at aob.org (e-mail) PO Box 1679 info at aob.org (aob info) Boulder, CO 80306-1679 http://www.aob.org/aob (www) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 18:25:20 -0600 From: jcollin2 at students.wisc.edu (Jeffrey M. Collins) Subject: Guinness and that elusive sour taste I noticed there's been some discussion about that little sour taste in Guinness. Some folks mentioned reading that this taste comes from the addition of 3% soured beer, but couldn't remember where. Check out Papazian's Toad Spit Stout recipe in the Betterbrew section of the New Complete Joy of Homebrewing. - ---------------------------- Jeffrey M. Collins Tri rudai faoin ol: e ol, jcollin2 at students.wisc.edu e iompair, agus e ioc. University of Wisconsin Three things about the drink: to Medical School drink it, to hold it, and to pay for it. -- Old Irish Saying Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 12:26:18 +1000 (EST) From: Paul Murray <pmurray at cltr.uq.oz.au> Subject: Burtonisation/Isinglass Jim Busch writes - > Domenick says: > > <While responding to Jeff Stampes kind offer of compiling water chemistry > <information I realized that I was missing an important parameter in my > <quest for a Fuller's ESB clone. > > <If anyone knows whether these carbonate values are valid or knows the > <actual values for the likes of Fuller's, Bass, or other Burton style > <ales, please respond by private email. > > Fullers is located in Chiswick, London, not in the Burton area. Fuller's is indeed in Chiswick, but like almost all (or maybe even all) British brewers they "Burtonise" their water. The idea is to treat the water in such a way as to duplicate the excellent brewing (for pale ale/bitter) water of Burton on Trent. The values Domenick seeks would therfore presumably be the same for all Burton _style_ ales i.e. for all English Bitters. A good place to look is David Line's "Big Book of Brewing" or Graham Wheeler's "CAMRA Guide to Home Brewing". Line's book is particularly useful in that it has a table which allows you to cross reference your local water make up against the style of beer you are making to see what treatment if any is necessary. In Brisbane, Castlemaine Breweries have an excellent source of soft water which appears to be very similar to that of Pils. They make lager (which they call XXXX Bitter Ale to confuse us foreigners) but they Burtonise the water. They single step infusion mash using quite highly modified two row from what I have been told, then they chill filter it (to avoid lengthy lagering) and ferment with a lager yeast. So it would appear that water treatment depends on your mashing method rather than on the style you are aiming for. Stout could be an exception though? The same post from Jim contained an excellent description of the process of preparing isinglass finings. Jim's version has the advantage over that of Wheeler in that it does not require that you burn out the motor of your food processor every time you brew. If you think burnt stove tops are inconducive to domestic bliss, try running the blender on full speed for an hour :-) But Domenick says - > Since Isinglass is basically expensive gelatin (collagen) two questions > come to mind. Why the extensive preparation of Isinglass? Given a good > reason for the extensive preparation of Isinglass should it be done for > run-of-the-mill gelatin as well? Isinglass clears yeast because it has the opposite charge to yeast. They therefore attract one another and settle out on the bottom. Auxilliary finings have the opposite charge and do the same job on protein. Gelatine is sticky and works with everything. I'm sure someone who understands chemistry will explain why that is wrong? The point is not why not treat gelatine this way, but rather why bother with isinglass? The UK beer trade uses it because it has the advantage that it will work a few times before it gets "tired". So when you have unfiltered beer going from the brewery to a distributor (usually a bigger brewery), to a depot, onto a dray, into a cellar, and then onto stillage, isinglass works better than other finings. For home use it is unnecessary, unless you think you will be moving your cask around a lot. David Draper writes - > Jim Cave describes the preparation of isinglass. Surely it is available > as a pre-made gel? Even if it is more expensive that way (as it > undoubtedly would be) it would be worth it. Again, my only use of it was > while in the UK, and I bought couple-hundred ml bottles of premade gel, > which was enough for about 3 batches if memory serves. One simply > withdrew a half-cup or so of the beer to be fined (I always did it in > secondary), added isinglass *slowly* so that mixing would be thorough, and > then put this back into the beer. I would usually rock the secondary back > and forth to mix. 3-4 days later the beer was usually pretty clear. Or if you live in the UK and are (for some reason) set on using the stuff, get to know as many cellarpersons from local pubs as possible. Many pubs have isinglass which they will let you have half a pint of for free (especially if you are a regular and get on well with them). The reason for this being that some pubs get their beer "green" and fine it themselves. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 20:28:23 CST From: "Charles S. Jackson" <sjackson at ftmcclln-amedd.army.mil> Subject: triple beam balance Well, this not exactly brewing related but I recently acquired a triple beam balance that is missing the 10 gm weight/slide. Is there some lab rat out there that might be willing to help me/tell me how to fashion a replacement. I'm sure it is not as simple as just creating a perfect 10 gm widget and hanging it from the beam. If I can obtain a 10 gm calibration weight (I think they are called standards, but I am reaching WAY back) place it on the plate and then shave metal from this replacementt slide to obtain a balance, would that be correct? Private e-mail would be the best, since I doubt there is much interest in repairing old scales. Couldn't find alt.sci.oldscales in usenet. Steve - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brewing beer is far more exciting when it is both a hobby AND a felony! The Alabama Outlaw Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 01:04:33 EST From: RPMTPLHS at URIACC.URI.EDU Subject: Re:automated brewing...valves In response to Dave's question re a source of valves for automated brewing, eve ry discarded washing machine in America, just about , can supply you with two w orking 110 volt lo-amp solenoid valves (hot and cold). one end is standard garden hose male fitting and the other can be adapted to hose clamp type fitti ng. A little creative adaptation and you could be home free. Of course you can 't be squeamish about raiding the sidewalk resources on trash day! For a part- icular southern European flavor, try on of the Fall River discards! Rich Poirier Smithfield, RI Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 00:26:05 -0600 (CST) From: "Robert W. Mech" <rwmech at eagle.ais.net> Subject: Isinglass Preparation > > There has been some discussion about the correct use of Isinglass. > >Isinglass is a very good fining and I believe that it is the best one to > >use in cask-conditioned ales. It does, however, require some additional > >preparation which includes: rehydration, addition of acid blend, use of > >a blender, and refrigeration. Apparently, if the temperature of Isinglass > >exceeds 20 C it will become inactive. Also, I have found that if it is > >frozen, it will also become inactive. > > > > ... Methods various people including Jim prepare Isinglass ... > > > > Since Isinglass is basically expensive gelatin (collagen) two questions > come to mind. Why the extensive preparation of Isinglass? Given a good > reason for the extensive preparation of Isinglass should it be done for > run-of-the-mill gelatin as well? > I wasnt aware that *any* preparation had to be done to isinglass. Ive been using the stuff for at least 2 years now, the only preparation I do is when making my priming soluition. As for the 20C thing, im not sure thats entirely true either. Ive been adding my isinglass with my priming soluition when boiling it before adding it to the beer. Ive always ended up with crystal clear beer. I have used irish moss in the boil, but usualy end up adding isinglass at bottle time anyhow to clear the beer up further. Irish moss however does do an excellent job at helping to settle out the boil before transfering to the primary. Well thats my experience. Ive boiled it, and done 0 preparation otherwise. The beers comming out clear, so it must be working. Is there some other method of using this stuff that maybe improves its efficency? Robert - -- Robert W. Mech | All Grain HomeBrewer. President, Fermentors At Large Elk Grove, IL. | Author Of "Frugal Brewers Guide To Brewing Aids" rwmech at ais.net | For More Information: http://www.cl.ais.net/~rwmech Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 07:23:23 EST From: "Patrick G. Babcock" <usfmchql at ibmmail.com> Subject: Zymomonas and The New Basement Blues... *** Resending note of 02/16/95 07:14 To: INTERNET--IBMMAIL Internet Addresses * Man's mind, stretched by a new idea, never goes back to its * * original dimension. - Oliver Wendell Holmes * Subject: Zymomonas and The New Basement Blues... Here's one for the collective: Miller talks of Zymomonas, a bacteria that dwells in the soil and pesters breweries having new construction in The Complete Handbook of Home Brewing page 180. Fix speaks of them in Principles of Brewing Science on page 202. My question is this: How long before one can say an area is safe to brew in? Is infection via Zymomonas worthy of worry? A friend of mine has just moved into a newly built house (newly dug basement) and want to take up homebrewing. He had heard of these buggers, and posed the same questions to me; rendering me speechless. My references are useless to me here. I can find reference to the guilty beastie, but can find no reference to its longevity. Any experiential comments would be greatly appreciated! TIA, and regards all around! Patrick G. Babcock USFMCHQL at IBMMAIL (313)33-73657 (V) (313)59-42328 (F) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 05:41:36 -0800 From: PSG at ix.netcom.com (Paul Gibson) Subject: Fass Frisch Party-Star Question Greetings, I have my first batch in the primary fermenter and have started wondering where to put the finished product! I would like to use some sort of kegging system, but, being a beginner, don't want to buy a second refrigerator, etc. right now. I have seen the Party-Star de Luxe with CO2 pressure regulator, and it seems like what I'm after. Only one problem -- I don't have a 15" high shelf in my refrig. and don't want to waste the space by moveing a shelf for one item. Has anyone had any experience/luck modifying the dip tube so the mini-keg will lay on its side? It looks like the dip tube attaches by straight pipe threads with an O-ring seal (metric I suppose, I haven't gaged it yet). I'm assuming that what ever solution I come up with will have to account for the small hole drilled through the dip tube where it will not be submerged. I guess this is to allow some CO2 to mix in as the beer is dispensed. Right now I am thinking of cutting the end of the dip tube off and keeping just the part that attaches to the tapper. I would then find a piece of heat-formable,food-grade plastic tubing that would slip over the stub of the original tube and seal it with Aquarium grade silicon caulk. It would be formed as follows: _________________________________ / _ __ Small hole at \ \ / \ top of tube. / <- Keg / / \ \ / \ / \ / /=========/ \ \ / / \ / \ \ \ /______________\__________________/ Anyone with a different/better idea, please let me know! Thanks Paul Gibson Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 08:09:13 CST From: Ray Louvier <rcl at ep130.wg2.waii.com> Subject: Partial Mash Recipe's Hello, this is my first post to HBD and I would like to say that the information I have been reading has been great. I am just starting to get into partial mash recipe's and would appreciate any decent recipe's for IPA's, Porters, and a decent clone for Pete's Wicked Ale. Thanks again for your time. Private e-mail or post is fine. Regards, Ray Louvier Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 08:28:45 CST From: "Karl F. Lutzen" <LUTZEN at physics.umr.edu> Subject: Paddles, pots and other wonderful stuff! I have been using a wooden stirring paddle which is made from hardwood and I would have to guess it to be some type of hard maple. I is 30 inches long and cost $10.00. Prior to using it in a brew, I conditioned it by placing it in my new copper brewpot which had a boiling vinegar and water solution in it to condition the brewpot. After brewing, a quick rinse and it looks exactly as when I got it. No discolorations. As far as I can tell, it imparts no flavor to my brews, but I don't brew exceptionally light beers anyway, so how will I know? I found the paddle it in the most unusual catalog of hard to find items, the Cumberland General Store catalog. This catalog is great! You want a copper pot for brewing? They have 'em in 10, 20, and 40 gallon sizes (be prepared for sticker shock). Among other things, they carry fruit choppers and presses, oak and basswood barrels, in 5 to 30 gallon sizes (paraffin lined), or charred oak barrels in 1, 2, and 5 gallons sizes, stone mills, and about every piece of blacksmith equipment imaginable. The even have brewing supplies! The catalog is over 280 pages of good stuff! And as the catalog says: "Goods in endless variety for man and beast." Their address is: Cumberland General Store Route 3 Crossville, TN 38555 (800) 334-4640 (615) 484-8481 in Tennessee Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with the store other than being a very impressed, and satisfied customer! ============================================================================ Karl F. Lutzen | lutzen at physics.umr.edu (314) 341-6317 University of Missouri | Physics Dept. | Home Page URL: http://www.physics.umr.edu/~lutzen Rolla, MO 65401 | ============================================================================= Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 09:28:52 -0500 (EST) From: david lawrence shea <dshea at ucs.indiana.edu> Subject: RE: Yeast Genecide (bonehead move)/Carbonation of Wyeast London ESB Steve asked about whether his yeasties were killed after adding boiling wort to the starter. Unfortunately they were indeed annihilated so it is good that you added some fresh yeast to the starter. I myself have done this very same "bonehead" mistake, in fact, it was when I was brewing the same SNPA recipe. Perhaps the recipe is cursed <g>. ****************** I remember a recent discussion about the decreased carbonation using the Wyeast Londond ESB yeast on r.c.b. and of course I didn't pay much attention to it (I always seem to be a few weeks behind). Now I wished that I did. I have used this yeast twice and both times the carbonation was on the low side. The beers were excellent but less carbonated. Has anybody here had the same experience? Also, is the yeast that many of the british bitter and pale ale producers use the reason why many of the english beers are less carbonated? David L. Shea Indiana University dshea at ucs.indiana.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 09:49:26 -0500 From: stevens at stsci.edu (Mark A. Stevens) Subject: Extract & gravity In HBD #1659, Mel Martinez discussed why a "rule of thumb" on hitting target gravities with extracts that was in the recipe formulation chapter of "Homebrew Favorites" doesn't work well. I'll take the blame on that one. That rule of thumb should never have made it into print. Although I *DO* use it for ballpark estimates, I know that it is WAY overoptimistic on the extract levels, so when I use it, I use it for dry extract and round down by quite a lot. As Al pointed out, a more reasonable extraction assumption is 42 points, but for seat of the pants, figuring on the spot in a shop while yanking things off the shelf, I'm not gonna sit there calculating out multiples like that. ;-) It should also be pointed out that EVERY rule of thumb for figuring gravities from extracts is going to be flawed. The differences between manufacturers and varieties is just too elusive. (See the Winter 94 issue of "Zymurgy" for some figures for several different types of dry and syrup.) Anyway, thanks Mel, for pointing that out. I SWEAR I won't be that lazy next time (red pen is out!) As for your comment about the Bantry Bay Irish Red Ale, I'm not so sure that it's impossible for that recipe to hit a 1048 gravity. This is one of Ray Taylor's recipes, so maybe if he's reading this, he can jump in with some insight on this recipe. Cheers! - ---Mark Stevens stevens at stsci.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 09:55:47 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: RE:paddles Another idea when scaling up brew length and looking for a stirring implement: get a slab of red oak and cut it into a paddle that has the blade size and handle size you want. Mine is about 6" wide blade that I use in a 2 foot wide mash tun. Works great. - -- Jim Busch busch at mews.gsfc.nasa.gov "DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLOND HOPPEBIER!" Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 10:15:57 EST From: "I see them through a crystal haze, And hear them bouncing round the room 16-Feb-1995 1010 -0500" <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com> Subject: GOTT cooler mashing and manifold design >Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 11:17:44 EST >From: epeters at edasich.rtp.semi.harris.com (Eric Peters (919) 405-3675) >Subject: Stirring Utensils, Gott Cooler Manifold [...] >We brew 10 gallon batches and mash in a Gott cooler like yours. >I designed a slotted 1/2" rigid copper manifold that uses four >parallel pipes joined with tees and elbows to form a square. > L---------L > | | > T---------T > | T-> Output through ball valve. > T---------T > | | > L---------L i have a similar design. i used 1/2" copper tubing, bent it in a circle, and used compression fittings to interface it to the ball valve: /------\ | | faces down-->T C--C-G-BV-- C=compression fitting, G=GOTT wall, | | BV=ball valve which fits snuggly in GOTT \------/ i've done 2 batches so far with it and had no problems. i drilled lots of 9/64" holes in the pipe which face down during mashing. on the end of the pipe opposite the ball valve, i use a T to keep the manifold about 1" off the bottom of the GOTT. simple to make, about 18 bucks in cost. good bye to the zapap lautertun! jc Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 11:03:39 EST From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE) Subject: thermometers, klutz-wise Just broke my third glass thermometer since last September--a standard grocery-store "candy" cooking thermometer. At $3.95 each, this isn't the end of the world, but I'm wondering if there's something sturdier available at a reasonable price. (Note: I also have one of the bi-metal candy thermometers, but it's too slow & will stick & then go "dooiing" & jump up 25 degrees, so don't recommend one of those to me.) While I'm on, let me sing the praises of Wyeast 1098 at low temps. It's been working great at 52 to 58 degrees F--so neat, so clean, so dry. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 12:39:02 -0500 From: "Thomas Aylesworth" <t_aylesworth at lfs.loral.com> Subject: Re: First All-Grain I just wanted to thank everyone who responded to my questions about my first all-grain batch. It's almost done fermenting, and I plan to bottle it on Sunday. For those who might be interested, I'll briefly summarize some of the responses I received: > - Water treatment Before even getting any responses on this, I did what I should have done a while ago and called the City of Manassas to get a water analysis. It was very easy and the chemist I talked to turned out to be a homebrewer as well. Manassas gets its water from a lake and is very soft, but very high in chlorine. I've heard of three ways to get rid of the chlorine: 1) continue boiling as I have been (not a big deal, but wastes some time the night before); 2) let the chlorine naturally gas out by sitting (how long does this take?); 3) get a carbon filter for the faucet. I also have a friend who has some fish and was telling me about some product he adds to water to dechlorinate it before putting it in his fish tank. Since I've never heard of using such a thing for brewing, I assume it is probably doing something that is not desirable. But, if anyone knows what this stuff is and how it works, I'd be interested in knowing. The only other water treatment I need is to boost the calcium content which is a mere 7 ppm. So, I plan to add some gypsum to my water before the mash to boost it into the 50 ppm range. > - Protein rest No clear consensus here, but the only real good reason I heard for doing it with Klages is to prevent chill haze. Since, as Jim Busch pointed out, chill haze doesn't affect taste, I will concentrate on other aspects of brewing for the moment, and if I have problems with chill haze, start doing protein rests later. > - Sparge Everone recommended just checking the pH during the sparge to make sure it didn't get above 6. Most recommended acidifying it to the 5.6-5.8 range to make sure it wouldn't get above there. The general consensus seemed to be that pH mattered more than temperature. As for sparge time, as long as I continue to get the sort of efficiency (30 pt/lb/gal) I got in this last batch, I won't worry about it. > - Boilers Only one other person responded and said they also use two 5 gallon boilers rather than an 8+ gallon one. He claims it works great. The only thing I noticed about it is that I lost more water during the boil than I expected, I suppose as a result of the increased surface area. Not a big deal - next time I'll boil slightly more wort. > - Efficiency Apparently, everyone here measures efficiency at a different point in the process! :-) Jim Dipalma says: >>Well, sorry for such a long post and for rehashing questions > > IMHO, posts like these that describe initial all grain brewing experiences > are very useful, as there must be a lot of interested people reading who are > considering trying their hand. Hopefully, these discussions help de-mystify > the process, and encourage these brewers to take the plunge. I hope so. I have to admit that reading the HBD for the past year, and finally joining the local homebrew club (BURP), is what got me to finally "take the plunge". It really isn't difficult at all, I think the hardest part was trying to decide what sort of mashing and lautering equipment to get! Oh, the one piece of equipment I highly recommend to anyone considering all-grain (or even partial mashes) is a good fast- acting thermometer. The so-called "wine and candymaking" thermometer I used this past time was far too slow to be useful. I just got a good lab thermometer that only cost $7 and gets to the right temperature in seconds. Thanks again for the help, Tom - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas Aylesworth | t_aylesworth at lfs.loral.com Space Processor Software Engineering | Loral Federal Systems, Manassas, VA | (703) 367-6171 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 10:00:34 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Cave <CAVE at PSC.ORG> Subject: Wheeler on "Dropping" Here is what Wheeler says about Dropping (Wheeler and Protz. 1993. Brew your own real ale at home. ISBN: 1-85249-113-2 "After the ale has been fermenting for a couple of days, when it has attenuated to about half of the original gravity..... "The beer should be syphoned from one container to another, taking care to leave as much yeast and sediment as possible behind in the primary vessel and taking care to admit the minimum of air into solution; although some air may be beneficial for certain strains of yeast. This can be achieved by using a syphon tube, the outlet of which should always be kept submerged under the transferred beer......The quality of the ale is much improved by dropping." So....Wheeler says _not_ to admit a lot of air during dropping but don't be too anal about it! Thanks to Jim Busch for further information on Issinglass use! My comments on temperature were to instruct the user not to let the Issinglass get abouve 20 C when fining, as its properties are lost. Otherwise, you'll want to keep it in the 'fridge when storing. The desireable qualities of real ale dictate that you will want to keep it warmer than 10 C if you are fining and drinking the beer. Jim Cave Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 10:32:17 PST From: RHENDRY at MFOR01.FOR.GOV.BC.CA Subject: Signup? Dear Sir/Madam; How does one sign up to this service? I tried sending a note to: Brew-request@ expo.lcs.mit.edu but never got any return mail. Help... Regards, Russ Hendry R.P.F., R.O. Planning In Sunny Invermere B.C. (604)342-4225 fax:342-7016(PC-Direct) Inet: RHENDRY at MFOR01.FOR.GOV.BC.CA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 06:34:00 -0800 From: pat.anderson at f52.n343.z1.com (Pat Anderson) Subject: Gott <From: Weirup at aol.com Subject: Gott cooler/all-grain setup> <all-grain brewing and I am in the process of getting together equipment. I want to do my mashing and lautering in a 10 gal. Gott cooler that I already have. I know that many people use this system and I have sort of seen one in use. But I'm not exactly sure on how to set this up. If anyone could> Good choice. Get a drum tap spigot and make a homemade EASYMASHER type drain. Remove the push button drain. You will see a 7/8" hole where the push button drain was inside a larger circle (about 1") in the orange outer shell of the Gott. With a sharp knife, cut the orange layer of the outer shell so the hole is about 1" and remove the insulation layer carefully. The hole has to be big enough to accommodate the drum tap spigot so the rubber gasket can go right up against the white plastic inner liner. The hole in the inner liner has to be enlarged ever so slightly so the threaded part of the drum tap spigot can go through it. Then just snug up the plastic nut on the drum tap spigot. Next, get a 2" x 6" piece of stainless mesh screen. Roll it up around some 3/8" flexible copper tubing (just as a form). Crimp one end and fold it back over on itself. Clamp the other end to a 6" piece of 3/8" copper tubing using a little stainless hose clamp. The copper tubing should have an "S" bend in it so when one end is inserted inside the drum tap, the end with the rolled screen can be rotated down to sit on the bottom of the Gott. Get a drilled stopper that fits the inside of the drum tap, and stick the end of the copper tubing in it. Insert this into the inside of the drum tap. Put about a foot of 3/8" siphon tube on the outside of the drum tap spigot so the wort won't splash into your collection bucket (grant). You now have the finest mash - lauter setup known to homebrewing IMNSHO... Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 12:02:18 -0700 From: reddy at qualcomm.com (Bob Eddy, ext. 5930) Subject: Phalse Bottom or copper manifold? Just a quick question. I am getting ready to modify a 10-gallon Gott cooler to use as a mash/lauter tun. I'm planning to use a Phil's Sparger on top, but can't decide whether to use a Phil's Phalse Bottom or a slotted copper manifold in the bottom of the cooler. I've heard pros and cons about both approaches. Since I'm planning to make a decision soon I'd be interested in hearing opinions from y'all. Which way should I go? Return to table of contents
Date: 16 Feb 1995 14:07:22 -0500 (EST) From: "Brian Ellsworth, 203-286-1606" <ELLSWORTH at bravo.otis.utc.com> Subject: Getting pumped up! hiya, Once again, I'm not contributing, just searching for information.... I recently put together an immersion chiller using 25 feet of 3/8 copper tubing. The problem is my water for cooling must come from my well. The well is extremely shallow for this part of the country, and as a result, water is in short supply. After running some tests cooling down 5 gals of boiling water, i find that i can not count on my system to produce more than 10 or 15 mins of cool water. In the interest of conservation, i decided to fill the sink with water, and several gallon size milk containers filled with frozen water. Using some cheep plastic connecting hose, I hooked up a 12 volt bilge pump salvaged from the bottom of my fishing boat to move the cold water through the cooler and return it to the sink. I have looked high and low for a better submersible pump that can both handle the cold, and give me a sufficient pressure. The system works, but really lacks the necessary power to move a reasonable amount of water. The result is, it takes over 40 mins to cool the wort. Anyone know of a source for a better, small, cheep pump? -brian ellsworth. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 15:35:25 -0600 From: MHANSEN at ctdmc.pmeh.uiowa.edu Subject: 1995 AHA style guidelines locations/Dunkelweizen Fellow Brewers, 1995 style guidelines can be had from the Association of Brewers by sending an E-mail to info at aob.org with the word STYLES in the body of the E-mail. An auto magical reply will be sent. It is also available on the web at http://www.aob.org/aob/aob.html/. Perhaps someone (me? help- calling Stephen Hansen!) can also upload this to the Stanford archives. 1994 guidelines are still available on the web at the Brewery at http://alpha.rollanet.org/ and on Spencer's beer page at http://guraldi.itn.med.umich.edu/beer/. Unfortunately, for the web-impaired (as I am), I received no info on other on-line locations. In perusing the guidelines for one of my favorite styles, dunkelweizen, the guidelines say "roasted malt and chocolate-like flavors evident". I can see the chocolate, but roasted? This implies the use of black patent malt or (Gasp! - Rheinheitsgebot) roasted barley. There ain't no way, no how I'm putting either of these in a weizen. (A weizen-stout, yeah, right). Could this be an error meant to be "toasted" instead? This implies to me the use of munich or vienna malt which seems to be much more appropriate for the style. Comments anyone? Brew on my friends, Mike (michael-d-hansen at uiowa.edu) PS - Thanks to Shawn Steele and Mark Stevens for the on-line locations and to Brian Walter and etmtvop at crosby.etm.ericcson.se (no name given) for actually sending me the guidelines. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 16:48:39 EST From: scox at factset.com (Sean C. Cox) Subject: Banana aroma Hi all, the last couple batches I've brewed have been plagued with a very noticable "banana" smell that seems to develop after about a week in the primary. Usually I "stop and smell the brew" frequently after I see activity in the airlock (I love the smell), and after 5-7 days I've been getting this increasingly noticable banana smell that never goes away, even with a few weeks aging. I'm an extract brewer and have been brewing for several years, so I'm fairly sure that my procedure is reasonable since this just started happening for the past few batches. The recipes have been dark beers, that have been brewed in very soft water (although one had added gypsum). I generally cool overnight and pitch yeast that was started the night before (again, my standard procedure of several years). I usually aerate the water in the primary by using a shower-nozzle to add the water which acheives a nice foam on it, so I don't expect it's under aerated. Anyone have any ideas? --Sean, not-so-anxiously-awaiting a banana stout. :-/ =-=-= Sean Cox =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= FactSet Data Systems =-=-= =-=-= scox at factset.com =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 1 Greenwich Plaza =-=-= =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Greenwich, CT 06830 =-=-= Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 20:11:45 PST From: diput at eis.calstate.edu (Diane S. Put) Subject: Anderson Valley Yeast >From "Don" Put: Hello all, I recently cultured the yeast from a bottle of Anderson Valley's "Barney Flats Oatmeal Stout." Has anyone used this yeast? Does anyone know the origins of this yeast? don (dput at cello.gina.calstate.edu) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 21:44:15 -0800 From: Gregory J Egle <DSGJE at acad2.alaska.edu> Subject: Lesson Plan I'm trying to organize a homebrewing class at our local community college. Is there anyone out there who might have a lesson plan or outline from another class they wouldn't mind sharing. If anyone can help out I'd really appreciate it. Thanks, Gregory Egle Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 11:10:08 +0100 From: Fredrik.Stahl at mathdept.umu.se (Fredrik Stahl) Subject: IBU levels Regarding Richard Webb's reply to George's measured IBU numbers, I thought I would tell you what I get from my calculations. I get values about 2 steps lower than Richard does for Rager's and Garetz' utilization tables, but I guess that could come from interpretation of the tables. Hardly significant since they are rough estimates anyway. However, the interesting point is that with Tinseth's utilization I get 27.2 for the pilsner (measured 25.6) and 33.4 for the California common (measured 35.3). I find this quite acceptable so I think I'll stick to Tinseth's numbers until the result of the research of him and Manning are revealed. (Might be wrong for higher gravities though, haven't tried that). /Fredrik.Stahl at mathdept.umu.se Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1661, 02/18/95