FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  White Beer Yeast and Orange Peel (MATTD)
  Smoke Beer (Mike Tyler)
  Re: AFCHBC Results (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Re: AFCHBC Results (Dion Hollenbeck)
  NO SUBJECT (" Richard Byrnes Jr")
  Re-using old yeast from a bottle... (Bob Bessette)
  Dry Hopping... (Bob Bessette)
  Maibock recipes, anyone? ("MICHAEL L. TEED")
  green/black mold (John Williams)
  Straining vs. Racking (Guy Mason)
  Re: Priming, sugar vs. malt? (Robert L. Lamothe)
  Bottle Cappers Again! ("Westerman, Robert")
  Westinghouse Motor + Wheat Grinding (kr_roberson)
  RE: Hop U% and concentrated boils (uswlsrap)
  low speed failure mode (Gordon.Mckeever)
  *Very* sour beer diagnosis (Kirk R Fleming)
  New to the keg Biz/Hop Util. (braddw)
  homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (great)



******************************************************************
* NEW POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
* 
* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.
******************************************************************
 
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu
ARCHIVES:
  An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer
  related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at
  ftp.stanford.edu.  Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full
  e-mail address as the password, look under the directory
  /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory.  AFS users can find it under
  /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer.  If you do not have
  ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail
  service at gatekeeper.dec.com.  For information about this service,
  send an e-mail message to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com with the word
  "help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 18:55:05 -0700 (MST)
From: MATTD at UWYO.EDU
Subject: White Beer Yeast and Orange Peel

     I am going to attempt my first white beer in a couple of weeks.  I was
wondering how well Wyeast's Belgian White Beer Yeast #3944 works.  Also, I am
having trouble finding the proper orange peel.  I can probably get it through
my local health food store but I'll have to order a pound at a time.  Can 
anyone suggest where I can get some in smaller amounts?
Thanks
Matt Dickey
Mattd at uwyo.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 08:43:32 -0600 (CST)
From: Mike Tyler <m-tyler at ux6.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Smoke Beer


Hi all-

With summer just around the corner, and the associated BBQ season, I've 
decided that a nice smoke beer is in order.  Never having made one of 
these before, I've got a couple questions.

First, looking through the Cat's Meow and other places, about two pounds
of smoked grain with about six or eight pounds of unsmoked grain (for a
five gallon batch)seems to be appropriate.  Anyone have any experience
which would suggest otherwise?  Is there any particular kind of smoke that
is preferable (i.e., hickory, mesquite, etc). 

Second, what kind of contribution can I expect from the smoked grain, 
besides the smoked flavor?  It seems that "cooking" it over coals for 45 
minutes or so would change the nature of the malt.  Will it have the 
equivalent contribution of crystal malt, or an even darker malt?  Or am I 
way off base here - will I get nothing more than smoke flavor from it.
I don't want to make a beer with too much residual sweetness; if some is 
contributed from the smoked grains, I won't add any additional crystal malt.
Or maybe I should just smoke the crystal.

Thanks for any thoughts - private e-mail is fine, I will summarize and 
post any responses that seem to be of general interest.

Thanks, 
mike
m-tyler at uiuc.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Mar 95 10:13:39 EST
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Re: AFCHBC Results

Hey, I like the idea of posting the scores.  For one thing, it gives
me ideas about categories that people are/aren't doing so well in (at
least in "America's Finest City" :-).  E.g., maybe I should work on
Bitters, if I want to win a competition :-)  

7. English Bitter
1st           30.5
1st           30.5
2nd           30
3rd           29

=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Mar 95 07:16:50 PST
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: AFCHBC Results

>>>>> "Spencer" == Spencer W Thomas <Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu> writes:

Spencer> Hey, I like the idea of posting the scores.  For one thing, it gives
Spencer> me ideas about categories that people are/aren't doing so well in (at
Spencer> least in "America's Finest City" :-).  E.g., maybe I should work on
Spencer> Bitters, if I want to win a competition :-)  

Spencer> 7. English Bitter
Spencer> 1st           30.5
Spencer> 1st           30.5
Spencer> 2nd           30
Spencer> 3rd           29

Spencer> =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI


Glad you did.  I pushed for this kind of results.  I will give you
some additional advice if you want to win.  Ignore categories
specialty, english pale and and americam pale ale.  Enter in sake or
melomel.   B-}

dion

- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 10:42:32 EST
From: " Richard Byrnes Jr" <usfmczgm at ibmmail.com>
Subject: NO SUBJECT                                                       


Well, my many months of silent lurking must now come to a halt.

2 questions, I could use some recommendations on brewpubs or
decent beer bars in Atlanta.

and I'm attempting to make a wit beer this spring and can't find
a local source of unmalted wheat.  How much difference can I
expect from using wheat malt?  Which wheat malt would be best, the
white or red?  I've read articles and recipes calling for both so
any input is welcome.  If anyone wants to send me a killer recipe I
would love to see them as well!

TIA

Regards,
Richard Byrnes Jr
B&AO Pre-Production Color Unit
phone #(313)323-2613, fax #390-4520, USFMCZGM at IBMMAIL.COM

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 13:03:11 EST
From: Bob Bessette <bessette at hawk.uicc.com>
Subject: Re-using old yeast from a bottle...

Fellow HBDers,
 Miller states in TCHOHB that he has successfully used yeast dregs from a bottle
of home-brew pitched into a starter for a subsequent batch. He also mentioned 
that he would not go more than one generation from the Wyeast pack-pitched 
beer. I would like to try this in an upcoming batch. He mentioned that you 
should be pretty confident of your sanitation practices before doing this. He 
also states that you should torch the top of your bottle bfore pitching the 
dregs into the starter. Has anyone out there done this and has had consistent 
success? Also any horror stories? I know that I'm risking a whole batch for 
the cost of a Wyeast pack (roughly $4.00) but I would like to give it a go. 
Please send to me directly if you have any experience with this...


Bob Bessette (all-grainer and proud of it...)
bessette at uicc.com
Systems Analyst
Unitrode Integrated Circuits
Merrimack, NH 03087


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 12:46:43 EST
From: Bob Bessette <bessette at hawk.uicc.com>
Subject: Dry Hopping...

Fellow Brewers,
 I dry-hopped my last batch and was very happy with the results as far as hop 
aroma is concerned. It far exceeded any previous batch where I just added 
aroma hops in the last 5 minutes of the boil. Now I exclusively dry hop and 
don't bother adding aroma hops to the boil. I used pellets and all I did was 
throw them in a la carte (without a muslin bag) prior to racking to my 
secondary. It took about two weeks in the secondary for all of the hops to fall
to the bottom of the carboy. The only drawback was that whenever I poured out 
the contents of my bottles into a glass there was still a good amount of hop 
residue in the bottom of the glass. This isn't a major problem but I would 
like to filter that out. Would I be better off using a muslin bag? I am a 
little concerned about sanitation with a muslin bag. Should I boil it first 
before adding the pellets to the bag? What is the standard practice when it 
comes to dry hopping with pellets? Am I better off using plugs with a muslin 
bag? Which is more effective when it comes to aroma? Plugs or pellets? Please 
send private email and I will post results to HBD...


Bob Bessette (all-grainer and proud of it...)
bessette at uicc.com
Systems Analyst
Unitrode Integrated Circuits
Merrimack, NH 03087


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Mar 95 12:48:42 CST
From: "MICHAEL L. TEED" <MS08653 at MSBG.med.ge.com>
Subject: Maibock recipes, anyone?

 .int homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com

 I was just looking ahead at seasonal brews and decided that I would like to
 make a maibock. If I start now, I would likely have one ready by spring.
 I am not familiar with bock beers, having never done one, but am looking for
 a good recipe and an overview on how to brew it. I am an all grain brewer, so
 please send grain recipes. TIA.

 Mike Teed, ms08653 at msbg.med.ge.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 14:05:05 -0500
From: John Williams <jwilliam at hartford.edu>
Subject: green/black mold

Brewers:
	Help!  While I was siphoning a pilsner from the primary to the 
secondary, I noticed a clump of mold on the inside where the racking cane meets 
the tubing.  I continued to siphon and afterwards cut out the offending piece 
of tubing.  The mold was black with a tinge of green.  Is that enough to tell 
me what it was and if it will 1) wreck my beer, 2) kill me if I drink the beer, 
3) die under the influence of the alcohol or hops, or 4) maybe give a slight 
off flavor.  I tasted the beer and it was quite good, it just needs to clear 
some.

	Only send good news directly to jwilliam at hartford.edu.  Send bad news 
hbd for all to enjoy.

	Thanks for your help.  
				J Williams

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Mar 95 14:12:18 EST
From: Guy Mason <guy at polo.matrixnet.com>
Subject: Straining vs. Racking

Hello fellow HBDer's,

I would like to hear from some brewers who have changed from straining the
wort into the primary fermenter to racking into the primary.  At the moment
I am straining the wort through a colander and am curious as to whether racking
the wort will improve my brews.  Anyone out there care to point me in the
right direction?  Private e-mail is fine and I'll gladly post a summary.

TIA
- ----
Guy Mason
Matrix Software
guy at matrixnet.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Mar 95 14:00:01 EST
From: rll at sun_cmc.iol.unh.edu (Robert L. Lamothe)
Subject: Re: Priming, sugar vs. malt?

	I've primed with CS, DME and gyle, for my money CS is just as easy
as any other and the results have been just fine.  Priming with gyle is
kind of fun when you want to make a beer that has nothing in it that wasn't 
there at brewing time.  However, gyle is also the most risky.  You have to
measure the total gravity before pitching.  Siphon off the required amount
and make certain everything is absolutely sanitary.  About a year ago this
was my prefered method of priming, but it went by the wayside when the
gyle I had set aside for a pale ale that I made had gotten contaminated.  I
didn't catch the flaw until it was too late and infected my entire batch.  If
you plan on priming with gyle, you almost certainly are required to can
what you are saving, particularly if you are fermenting for a long time.  In
this case fermentation was only 2 weeks, but it was long enough for bacteria
to set in.  The other downside to gyle is that it can leave a ring around
the neck of the bottle, since the yeast has to go through all 4 stages again,
the ring is nothing more than a high krausen mark, but can give an impression
of infection, this could cost points in a contest.

						-Bob
- -- 
* Robert L. Lamothe                           University of New Hampshire     *
* rll at unh.edu                                 Interoperablity lab room 337    *
* (603)862-4349                               Morse Hall                      *
*                                                                             *
* "All I ask of life is a constant and exaggerated sense of my own            *
*  importance."								      *

Return to table of contents


Date: 20 Mar 1995 13:54:36 -0600
From: "Westerman, Robert" <robert.westerman at spmail.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Bottle Cappers Again!

More opinions, PLEASE!

Can you believe that I got only ONE response from
all the knowledgeable people with access to the HB Digest?

Well, I'm asking again!
In your opinion, what is the best kind (style and brand) of bottle capper to
use?

I want to give one as a gift.  I use a double lever capper (Black beauty I
think, with a magnet to hold the cap), but am not very impressed with it (it
has even broke bottles in the past).

Respond to me personally at "robert.westerman at spmail.jsc.nasa.gov"

A BIG special thanks to Mr. Menegoni for responding.

TIA

Robert-

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 12:02 -0800 (PST)
From: kr_roberson at ccmail.pnl.gov
Subject: Westinghouse Motor + Wheat Grinding

First some input about grinding raw wheat...

I have a MaltMill (tm, etc, etc) that I use for grinding, and I wanted
to relate my experience with raw wheat so far. I've made two white 
beers with 50% raw wheat, the first with hard red and the second
with soft white. Boys and girls when they say hard as in "hard red"
they are not kidding. I was grinding with a drill motor and the ol
MM would seize up if ANY backed up in the rollers. No loading up the
hopper on this stuff. I had to unload the hopper several times before
I was done. Major pain. Pouring it in slowly in a very thin stream
did the trick. It was still a struggle and my ears were ringing
from the noise when I was done. The next time I used soft white
and approached the process with great caution. However, it was 
MUCH easier and I was even able to get a little ahead in the hopper
(but I never tried to restart either). I also mixed about 20% of
malt in (for a different purpose) and that may have helped too.
But the fact remains that soft white is quite a bit softer.

So I recommend that if you are making a white beer for the first time,
try the soft stuff first. I won't know what the effects are on 
beer taste for a while...

Second. I have a 1/2 hp Westinghouse motor that I want to use
to motorize my MM. The wiring diagram is fadded away. Can someone
tell me how to wire it for 115 v ac? TIA

Kyle

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 15:54:14 EST
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: RE: Hop U% and concentrated boils                                


Gary Bell writes about hop U% in concentrated boils and makes essentially the
same points I did in response to the earlier inquiry, BUT continues to say:

>By the way, Bob Paolino brought up using the table on page 268 in
>Charlie Papazian's TNCJOHB to estimate the specific gravity of
>your wort. DON'T! I posted on this last week; the table, for some
>strange reason, represents some kind of strange polynomial
>function. The relationship is purely linear. Assuming that your

- -->I don't have TNCJOHB, and don't recall anything like that in TCJOH ("old
   complete joy"??), which I have, along with the new "companion."  Therefore,
   I don't know what's on p.268; I was referring to something I recalled
   seeing while glancing through the "companion."  I'll have to look at it
   to see whether it has the same flaw Gary suggests.

   Nonetheless, I suggested the table, from whichever book, correct or
   incorrect in one or both books, as an alternative to doing the arithmetic
   (or measurement) to determine wort gravity to substitute in the IBU
   equation for a gravity adjustment.  If I was too quick to suggest a table
   I recalled seeing as a shortcut for the arithmetically-phobic, then so be
   it.

Gary then notes estimates of points per gallon for liquid and dry extracts,
and his numbers are comparable to my low-40s for DME/mid-30s for liquid:

>DME contributes 42 pts/lb, if you add a pound of DME to a gallon
>of water you increase the OG by 42 points. Thus two pounds per
((snip))
>whopping 1.210 (don't try this at home kids!). If you are using
>syrup instead of DME the contribution would be about 35 pts/lb.

- -->I wonder (again, without having the table at hand, or even having read it
   carefully, I confess) whether Charlie's numbers take into account the
   additional volume contributed by the extract, and if that might explain
   any difference.  That is, is that 1.035 (or whatever the actual number is
   depending on the particular extract, which is why I said mid-30s rather
   than 1.035) is for a liquid extract added to a gallon of water (for a
   total volume greater than one gallon) or for a volume of extract and
   water that equals one gallon?  It does make a difference, of course,
   although the practical difference for determining a U% which is only an
   approximation anyway is uncertain.

   It's possible that one is talking about an amount of extract plus a volume
   of water, and the other is a volume of diluted extract, and both results
   could conceivably be correct.  Can anyone out there speak with authority on
   that one?  (And I promise to look at the table this week and see whether it
   makes sense or looks wrong to me :-) )

   Again, my primary recommendation is to do the arithmetic and substitute
   into the formula for best results.

Now go have a beer,

Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace / uswlsrap at ibmmail.com






- ---THE INTERNET: Hardwiring the neurons of the global brain:---
                                      One geek at a time....
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

Return to table of contents


Date: 20 Mar 95 24:15:00 -0000
From: Gordon.Mckeever at jpl.nasa.gov
Subject: low speed failure mode


- --JPLxxxccMailxxxSMTPxxxID26063gc46x
Content-Type: Text/Plain; CharSet=US-ASCII
Content-Description: Text_1


     Hello beer people:

     I am going to relate my horror story to you. If anybody has any
     suggestions or random ideas about what I'm doing wrong, please write
     and instruct me in the error of my ways.

     This is my first batch of beer. (actually my second, but the first
     ended prematurely, with a quick lesson on the thermal non-elastic
     properties of carboys dunked in ice water) I used a 6 lb bucket of goo
     called 'Pail of Malt'; I understand it is from Alexanders. Anyway, I
     cooked it for an hour with Cascade and put in the Irish moss at the
     end. Once I cooled it down to 72F (plastic fermenter) I added a pack
     of Edme yeast (11.5g). After 24 hours it started to bubble nicely, but
     within 24 hours it had stopped bubbling completely. I let it sit for a
     couple days, hoping it was just half-time or something and it would
     start fermenting again. Of course it didn't; the SG just sat there
     around 1.020. So, after perusing Charlie P's book, I figured 'yeast
     hulls' were the fix. I dumped a pack (1 oz?) of yeast hulls, another
     pack of the Edme yeast and about 3oz of Yeast Nutrient into a freshly
     cleaned carboy and racked the wort into same.

     It bubbled moderately for an hour or so, but now it seems to be stuck
     again. No bubbles, no surface activity, and a thick layer of scum on
     the bottom of the carboy. Why does my yeast die? Has God elected me
     for non-brewer-hood? Is it possible that I am not getting the
     fermenters rinsed well after cleaning? Should I just throw away this
     SECOND batch of wort and start over. My dog liked the first batch,
     (although she seemed to have a little trouble with the glass chips)

     Also, thanks to everybody for the suggestions on where to get the
     Grolsch-type bottles.

                     Gordo, the Dejected Neophyte Brew Guy
- --JPLxxxccMailxxxSMTPxxxID26063gc46x--

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 20 Mar 1995 15:14:35 -0700
From: flemingk at usa.net (Kirk R Fleming)
Subject: *Very* sour beer diagnosis

We brewed 10 gal of Carolines' Mild (an English Ordinary recipe from
Victory Beer Recipes) with extra attention to every detail of the
brew.  This batch was destined for a party, and we wanted to ensure
all aspects went as perfectly as we could make them.

After the prescribed secondary fermentation, we racked the beer into
a 1/2 bbl keg that had been thoroughly sanitized with an iodophor
sanitizer, then rinsed with warm water several times.  All parts of
the valve assembly were likewise sanitized.  We put the keg together
and added some CO2 pressurization, and waited for The Big Day.

At about T - 1 week we pulled a glass each to taste for development,
and found the beer I described here several weeks ago--a tasteless,
odorless brew hardly worthy of drinking.  I was offered some reasons
for this, and have made my notes.

Nearly three weeks later (we never served this beer) we tasted again
and the beer is very sour.  I'm talking a 10 on the pucker-factor
scale here--lemonlike sourness (no lemon flavor).  Kind of a cool
flavor, actually, but not what I've come to know as beer.

Based on our reading, this sounds like it might be your classic lacto
infection--not a *bad* flavor, if you like sourness.  My question for
the HBD cognoscenti is: given this is a lactobacillus and given the
time it took to appear as lactic acidity, where is it most like in
our processing that the infection actually occurred?  A second question
is: are there other equally likely causes, other than lactobacillus?

Kirk R Fleming
Colorado Springs
flemingk at usa.net


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon Mar 20 21:24:33 1995
From: braddw at banjo.rounder.com
Subject: New to the keg Biz/Hop Util.

I just made contact with someone who could get me some used kegs from a
Bud distributor.  My questions for the collective are;

What kind of kegs is AB using these days?

If I were to have a seperate hot liquor tank, would I be able to
sufficiently mash/lauter 10 gallon batches in a 1/4 Keg and then Boil in
a 1/2 keg?  This means two false bottoms and two ball valves, but I want
a seperate mash/lautering vessel.

And on the subject of chilling, I had the idea of building a conical vent
hood for the kettle that would have an immersion chiller permanently
attached.  Would the be any detrimental effect of having the chiller
immersed throughout the entire boil?

And finally, about Mark G's IBU calculations. Please, save me from buying
the book, how does he account for his supposed increase in efficiency
with more flocculant yeasts?  It seems to me that if anything, efficiency
would decrease due to the yeast carrying lipids and iso-alpha compounds
out of the wort upon racking.  Even then I think the effect would be
marginal at best.

   TIA and brew on!

   **** ---- "There's always time for a Homebrew!" ----  ****
  C|~~| ---------------Bradd W. Wheeler---------------- C|~~|
   `--'  -----Quality Control/Database Management-----   `--'
          ----------Rounder Records Corp.------------
                     braddw at rounder.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 00:22:17 -0600
From: great at ATW.fullfeed.com
Subject: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com

homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
great at ATW.fullfeed.com

Return to table of contents

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1685, 03/21/95