HOMEBREW Digest #1704 Wed 12 April 1995

Digest #1703 Digest #1705

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Re: DME for priming...get rid of ring around the collar? (Sandy Cockerham__Mc625__6-0412)
  Need hop growing advice (Will Self)
  priming with honey...almost disasterous results (soup-man) Campbell" <m950936 at holloway.nadn.navy.mil>
  Floral aroma and re-using Cascades ("Lee C. Bussy")
  RIMS programming (DONBREW)
  Hazards of Home Brewing (Jeff Hewit)
  HDPE Buckets (Philip Gravel)
  Line and Shales (Will Self)
  created a monster (Doug Flagg)
  Land of the Muddy Water Homebrew Competition (Wolfe)
  Growing barley (Bob Jones)
  Brew Day (Reid  Graham)
  Green Mountain Mashers Results? (braddw)
  honey: priming with, buying (Carl Etnier)
  Brewing waters of the world (longish) (David Draper)
  Extract Brewing; Primary Break / Counterflow Chillers (Bob Sutton)
  Wyeast 1968 ("Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616")
  Bavarian Wheat Beer Yeast Recommendation (ROSS)
  Moravia III (MicahM1269)
  using buck wheat (FLATTER)
  RE: SNPA and dryhopping (david lawrence shea)
  torque/Brewery design-operations ("SOA::S29033")
  Re: 1995 Bluebonnet Brew-off Results (Steve Zabarnick)
  95 Spring Thing Results (guyruth)
  Racking to 2 secondaries (Joseph_Fleming_at_GSA-2P__2)
  Apology/Orange peel and infected wort summaries ("Crake_Kurtis_LT")
  Wyeast 3944 Belgium/White beer (M.Marshburn/D202)
  Optimal Starter Use (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  RE: Yeast, Hand Towels, RIMS (Jim Dipalma)
  RE The Secrets of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale (Jon Binkley)
  noble hops & yeast question (A2J)
  Jay Hersh and PBS?? (uswlsrap)

****************************************************************** * NEW POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail, * I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list * that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox * is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced * mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days. * * If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only * sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get * more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list. ****************************************************************** Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu ARCHIVES: An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at ftp.stanford.edu. Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full e-mail address as the password, look under the directory /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory. AFS users can find it under /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer. If you do not have ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail service at gatekeeper.dec.com. For information about this service, send an e-mail message to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com with the word "help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 08 Apr 1995 16:36:39 -0500 (EST) From: Sandy Cockerham__Mc625__6-0412 <COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L at Lilly.com> Subject: Re: DME for priming...get rid of ring around the collar? Hi, I have also noticed the ring around the collar effect of DME priming. My question, has anyone tried making sterile primers with DME in 1 pint canning jars? If so, does the "ring" stay in the jar if you pour gently? Secondly, is anyone else having the problem of posts disappearing? I sent one in about 2 weeks ago and it seems to have fallen into a cyberhole. Thanks, Sandy C. (The scientist, homebrewer, and law student who figures she can always get a job with Jim Koch! (just kidding guys.)) From: COCKERHAM SANDRA L (MCVAX0::RX31852) To: VMS MAIL ADDRESSEE (IN::"homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com") Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 95 18:02:34 -0600 From: wself at viking.emcmt.edu (Will Self) Subject: Need hop growing advice If I'm going to put out some hops this year I need to get a move on. What I would like to do is grow just one variety, one of the nobles. I live in Billings, Montana. Our summers have been coolish with just occasional hot days. I have river water for watering, all I want to use (from the Yellowstone River). So, which noble hop should I try to grow? What are the various issues? Are some more prone to disease than others? Are some more prolific? I think I can get Saaz and Hallertauer from Freshops. I don't know offhand where I would get other varieties. Will Self Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 20:38:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "Midn John (soup-man) Campbell" <m950936 at holloway.nadn.navy.mil> Subject: priming with honey...almost disasterous results Hi again all, After all of the recent posts concerning priming with honey I wanted to give my own two cents worth. About two weeks ago I bottled a batch of honey wheat beer that turned out rather outstanding. Albeit I am an extract homebrewer currently, it still was excellent! Here's the recipe for all that are interested... 1 3kg can Ireks wheat/barley extract 1.5 lb clover honey 1 oz Tetnang hops (3.4%AA ??) in the boil for 45 min 1 oz Hallertauer hops (German) (4.5%AA ??) for last 10 min 1 pkg Wyeast Weihenstephan Wheat variety Well, I thought that I would be cool and prime with honey since this WAS a honey wheat beer...I ended up priming with about 2/3 cup of clover honey because my last batch of wheat beer primed with a 1/2 cup of honey was not effervescent enough...BIG MISTAKE Thank goodness I had already drank a majority of the beer before the problems started occurring. I had 6 champagne bottles of the brew left and went to get a bottle to chill...Well each of the bottlecaps on the champagne bottles became domed in an outward direction. I was not worried that the bottles would explode...a 12 oz bottle probably would have, but I was worried that the bottlecaps would shoot off and fountain beer everywhere. Well I ended up getting some champagne corks (reusable plastic) and wiring them on as I removed the bottlecaps. This worked fine and I don't anticipate any further problems. I guess the point of my "thesis" here is that with just the increase from 1/2 to 2/3 of a cup of honey my beer was well overcarbonated!!! I would like to suggest to everyone like me out there that is inexperienced with using honey to prime to BE CAREFUL!!! Thanks Again for reading... John E. Campbell m950936 at holloway.nadn.navy.mil U.S. Naval Academy, Annapolis, Md. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 20:46:29 +0000 From: "Lee C. Bussy" <leeb at southwind.net> Subject: Floral aroma and re-using Cascades Whoaholdonwaitadamnminit! I was misunderstood and hence when paraphrased made to sound like a complete idiot! (I do this enough to be sure! :) As far as the "floral taste" from Cascades goes.... I know I can't be the only judge in the world that has detected this. For lack of a better way to describe it... _some_ beers that have been made with Cascades in an excessively long boil have exhibited a taste that for lack of a better way to describe it is what I would expect Channel #5 to taste like. This floral taste is disagreeable and I would fault a beer that displayed this characteristic. To say that you are bothered by my statement tells me that you didn't understand it. Al, I know you are probably a good judge and I wouldn't think to second guess you. I'll tell you what.. the next beer I find with this characteristic I'll let you know and send you one. I'm NOT knocking Cascades... in an American style Ale they are definitely acceptable and almost necessary. You use the example that if I reduce the score of an American Pale Ale or a Stout because it displays a floral character then you disagree. First of all, I think that I might not have explained the nature of the character and secondly, a stout with a floral hop taste is not quite true to style is it? American Ales made with With Willamette hops do indeed exibit a similar character but not disagreeably so like the taste I am trying to describe. Now to the re-using the hops thing....... I know that 70% of the bittering value of the hops does not remain after the boil... I was using this as a for instance to support the idea of re-using the hops in the making of a "small" or second runnings beer. It is absolutely correct to say that this is possible because bittering potential remains in the hops after the first boil. No, Noonan doesn't say that X amount of the original bitering will remain and IBU's may be figured on this. I'm not going to brew a test batch and send the spent hops to the lab for analysis. I domn't care that much. The original question was can hops used for dry hopping be used again for bittering. Yes. This all brings me to my last point for today: There has been a trend of late to dissect and anylize everything a person says and either prove or disprove to the nth degree or correct spelling and grammar. Who the hell cares? I'm not affected by whether or not a certain effect is called Venturi or Bernouli. We get the idea. If I cared that much for accuracy I would take gratefully whatever was offered to me and then use that as a basis for further research on my own. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 23:03:36 -0400 From: DONBREW at aol.com Subject: RIMS programming Chuck sez: >Bill Machrone's (sp?) column in the February PC Magazine described a piece of >Radio Shack hardware which might just fit the bill for automating your RIMS >system. .... How about a RS catalog number? I have seen such a thing from Digi-Key but more expensive. Brew onward, Don Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 22:23:59 -0400 From: jhewit at freenet.vcu.edu (Jeff Hewit) Subject: Hazards of Home Brewing I started home brewing a little more than a year ago. I've brewed about one batch (5 gal) per month. The beer I've brewed is the best I've ever drank. I was a regualr beer drinker before I started home brewing, but I've become "more" regular since then. The bottom line is, I've gained about 25 pounds in the past year. I know it's not just the beer, but I know the beer has helped. Homebrew, with more body than regular domestic beer, has to have more calories. Add increased consumption due to the enhanced taste, and you get a bulging waist. I don't intend to stop making and drinking homebrew, but this little confession has, somehow, made me feel better. - -- Jeff Hewit ****************************************************************************** Eat a live toad first thing in the morning and nothing worse will happen to you the rest of the day. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 95 21:24 CDT From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel) Subject: HDPE Buckets ===> Aric Rothman asks about whether all HDPE plastic is food grade >I've purchased two HDPE plastic buckets from a hardware store. I intend >to make a Zapap lauter tun. Is all HDPE (white) food grade? HDPE >appears in raised letters on the bottom of the bucket, with no mention >of whether or not the plastic is food grade. Pretty much. It shouldn't cause a problem. - -- Phil _____________________________________________________________ Philip Gravel Lisle, Illinois pgravel at mcs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 95 22:54:48 -0600 From: wself at viking.emcmt.edu (Will Self) Subject: Line and Shales I apologize for this morbid curiosity, but does anyone know how Dave Line died? Also Ken Shales? Will Self Billings, Montana Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 10:10:00 GMT From: doug.flagg at chksix.com (Doug Flagg) Subject: created a monster Timothy L. Burger needed some advise about Yeast Lab's American Ale Yeast: >Sunday morning I checked the starter expecting to see the airlock >bubbling away but was shocked to see nothing. What was the expiration date on that yeast? I have noticed that Yeast Lab has started labeling their yeast with a 6 month shelf life. I seriously doubt it will last that long (especially if not handled -very- properly by the vendor). I have had similar problems to the point where I am very gun shy if the yeast does not seem almost brand new. My local homebrew shop carries the Yeast Lab line rather than Wyeast (or some other) so I am stuck unless I order by mail...and I've not had good luck with viable liquid yeast by this method either. Now I tend to use dry yeast for my ales, and have cut back on the amount of lagers I brew. Wish I had a good solution to the problem, but I don't. Guess it's just the nature of the beast. Doug Flagg doug.flagg at chksix.com - --- * OLXWin 1.00 * All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 95 09:20 CST From: Wolfe at act-12-po.act.org Subject: Land of the Muddy Water Homebrew Competition ***** Land of the Muddy Water ***** ***** Homebrew Competition Announcement ***** The Mississippi Unquenchable Grail Zymurgists (MUGZ) will hold an AHA homebrew competition on May 6th in Rock Island, IL. All AHA categories of beer and mead will be judged. For more information about entering or judging, contact Jeff Grillo at 309-786-2546 or via email at 72064.1256 at compuserve.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 1995 07:59:09 +0900 From: bjones at bdt.com (Bob Jones) Subject: Growing barley Kelly Jones ask about sources of seed barley? >I'm interested in planting some barley in the backyard garden this year. >Mostly for aesthetic purposes; Couldn't help commenting on something I saw about 10 years ago. I has visting a brewer friend and I noticed some barley stalks in a vase in his garage. I ask him where they came from. He said out of his backyard. He said he always throws his "spent grain" down the hill side and one day there this stuff was growing. I was amazed. He actually had to take me down the hill to prove to me that that was where the grain was growing. Now this brewer was a single stage infusion masher, but still. That barley had some kind of zest for life. So Kelly the answer to your question may be right there in that bucket of malted, cracked, mashed and sparged barley you just threw out. Anyone else ever seen barley grow after its been mashed? Bob Jones bjones at bdt.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 1995 12:02:02 -0500 (EST) From: McKee Smith <MCKSMI at delphi.com> Subject: AMYLASE ENZYME I am going to start experimenting with some amylase enzyme I picked up from a mail order supply house. I ordered it on a spur of the moment whim, thinking I'd figure out exactly how to use it after I got it. Well ... I'm asking if anyone one one HBD has used the stuff? If so, how much -- I'd imagine only very small amounts. I'm also not sure whether to use it in the boil or add it to my mash. Thanks in advance for the advice! McKee Smith Phone: (214) 721-1558 Irving, Texas, USA EMail: Mcksmi at Delphi.com Compuserv: 71660,2747 Return to table of contents
Date: 09 Apr 95 21:09:55 EDT From: Reid Graham <75037.1702 at compuserve.com> Subject: Brew Day Our club is planning a brew day, where we all gather at one locale and spend the day brewing. As this is sort of my project, I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has attempted this sort of thing before. If you or your club has done this I would like to hear about how you did it, what problems you ran into, and most of all whether it was a success or not. Reply to my compuserve address, or to the HBD would be appreciated. Reid Graham 75037.1702 at compuserve.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun Apr 9 21:41:36 1995 From: braddw at banjo.rounder.com Subject: Green Mountain Mashers Results? Does anyone have acces to the results of the Green Mountain Masers competition from this past weekend in Vermont? TIA, Private mail is fine. **** ---- "There's always time for a Homebrew!" ---- **** C|~~| ----------------------------------------------- C|~~| `--' --------------braddw at rounder.com------------- `--' ------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 07:56:06 +0200 (MET DST) From: Carl Etnier <Carl.Etnier at abc.se> Subject: honey: priming with, buying Priming with: Just another data point for the great priming-with-honey discussion. I've only done it once, with last summer's spruce beer, and used 2 dl in a 23 l batch. The carbonation is just right. Well, almost. I wrote that and opened up the last bottle ;-(. It gushed vigorously, as a few other bottles have, when I think about it. _Almost_ all are perfectly carbonated, however, at least when I pour them. The funny thing is that even the few gushers become flat after a few minutes in the glass. This is the only beer this happens to me for, so it is not connected to dirty glasses or anything. Still, I suspect it is something other than the priming honey that does this--honey should affect _how much_ CO2 is produced, not how fast it comes out, I would think. 1 cup = 2.4 dl, 5 gal = 19.7 l, BTW. Butying: I brew a lot with honey, both in beers and in mead. I have cultivated a good business relationship with a local beekeeper (presents of mead go a long way) that has led both of us to discover a product we didn't know he had. When he processes his honey, he stirs it every day for a while and a sort of grade B honey rises to the surface, contaminated with bee legs, wax, and other things he doesn't want in the honey he sells. This he skims off and sets aside. Normally he just gives it back to the bees during the winter, instead of a sugar solution; now he sells it to me for half the price he sells his regular honey for. Carl Etnier Trosa, Sweden Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 21:50:29 +1000 (EST) From: David Draper <ddraper at laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au> Subject: Brewing waters of the world (longish) Dear Friends, about a month ago I asked for tips on the characteristics of brewing waters for various styles, and got several very helpful responses--thanks to Scott Bickham, Al Korzonas, Fredrik Stahl, and another respondent who faxed me a copy of the water table from Papazian's Companion, but whose name I have STOOPIDLY lost. Sorry!!! Below, I list the collected data. The bulk of them come from Fredrik's collection; and a few other data were added from other sources, all as noted below the table. I hope this info proves as useful to others as it has to me. Quick comment--it can be argued that these days modern breweries treat their water away from that of the old days, but I would suggest that because the classic styles developed in these brewing cities largely before such practices came to the fore, adjusting our waters to match these profiles is defensible. Now for The Data: City Ca++ CO3-- Cl- Mg++ Na+ SO4-- Burton 1 268 275 36 62 54 638 Burton 2 270 197 40 60 30 640 Burton 3 295 300 25 45 55 725 Dortmund 1 225 221 60 40 60 120 Dortmund 2 250 550 100 25 70 280 Dublin 1 119 156 19 4 12 53 Dublin 2 118 319 19 4 12 54 D"usseldorf 40 45 25 80 Edinburgh 1 140 140 34 60 80 96 Edinburgh 2 120 225 20 25 55 140 K"oln 104 152 109 15 52 86 London City 90 82 10 6 22 24 London Well 52 104 34 32 86 32 Munich 75 148 2 18 2 10 Pilsen 1 7 14 5 2 2 5 Pilsen 2 10 3 4.3 3 4 Vienna 200 118 12 60 8 125 Data sources: Burton 1 "Brewing & Malting Science", 1:206, Hough et al. Burton 2 "Pale Ale", p58, Foster. Burton 3 Papazian, Homebrewer's Companion Dortmund 1 "Brewing Lager Beer", p55, Noonan Dortmund 2 Papazian, Homebrewer's Companion Dublin 1 "American Handy Book", 2:790, Wahl-Henius, 1902 Dublin 2 Al Korzonas D"usseldorf Source Unknown Edinburgh 1 "Fermentation Technology", p. 13, Westermann and Huige Edinburgh 2 Papazian, Homebrewer's Companion K"oln Bob Bloodworth, HBD 26 Jan 95 London City "Fermentation Technology", p. 13, Westermann and Huige London Well "Fermentation Technology", p. 13, Westermann and Huige Munich "Brewing Lager Beer", p55, Noonan Pilsen 1 "Brewing Lager Beer", p55, Noonan Pilsen 2 "American Handy Book", 2:790, Wahl-Henius, 1902 Vienna "Brewing Lager Beer", p55, Noonan Finally, a couple days ago Fredrik asked about when water should be treated, and Al responded with several suggestions that ranged from adding to the mash to adding to the boil. I would appreciate some additional, gorily detailed commentary on this--my understanding was that it was the mash reactions that were most important for having the proper water composition (mostly from Dave Line's work). Is it the protein coagulation that is to be enhanced by adding to the boil? Flavor components from hops? Let's hear it. Cheers, Dave in Sydney - -- "We [HBDers] are like the Borg" ---Chris Geden ****************************************************************************** David S. Draper, School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, NSW 2109 Sydney, Australia. email: david.draper at mq.edu.au fax: +61-2-850-8428 ....I'm not from here, I just live here.... Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 95 06:53 EST From: Bob Sutton <BSutton_+a_FDGV-03_+lBob_Sutton+r%Fluor_Daniel at mcimail.com> Subject: Extract Brewing; Primary Break / Counterflow Chillers Rob Emenecker wrote: >Is the stuff settling in my carboy considered the >cold break, hot break, what? <SNIP> >What are some of you extract brewers practical experiences with straining >wort? When you do partial boils, additional cold break occurs when the cooled wort is diluted with water in the primary. This break is insoluble protein matter formed as a result of the changing ionic character of the diluted wort. This formation will occur despite your straining set-up. I've used BOTH nylon filters and screens when I go from the boilpot to the fermentor. Generally...if I'm lucky...the filter wort leaves the funnel clear. However, once it hits the pre-charged water in the primary...instant precipitation :-( To avoid this formation in the primary, you will need to do a full boil (5 gal +)... assuming you effectively filter the cold break enroute to the primary. As mentioned by many on HBD, if your dealing with ales, porters, and stouts, the break should not noticeably affect the taste. Generally, I rack to the secondary on the third day to minimize exposure. IMHO, water flowing through a double cooling coil (one in the wort, and one in a bucket of ice water) is more effective in dealing with partial boils since you're cooling ~3 gallons. For larger lot sizes (>=10 gal), a counterflow chiller can significantly reduce cooldown time...until it plugs ;-) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 95 8:07:50 EDT From: "Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616" <wagnecz at PICA.ARMY.MIL> Subject: Wyeast 1968 I was truly amazed at how quickly the London ESB 1968 ferments out. I turned some loose on some 1.062 wort last sunday and by the following Friday (5 days), the S.G. had dropped to 1.010. Despite this torrid pace, the fermentation was accomplished without the use of blowoff tubes! A friend of mine (you out there Jon?) compared the taste this yeast creates as being very fruity (so fruity that 1056 could be called nuetral in comparison). That seems to be the case, but I'll be able to tell you for sure after this has a couple weeks to age. All in all, though, looks like a real good performer. Glen Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 08:33:07 -0400 (EDT) From: ROSS at MSCF.MED.UPENN.EDU Subject: Bavarian Wheat Beer Yeast Recommendation Date sent: 10-APR-1995 08:25:49 I'm going to brew a Bavarian style Wheat Beer soon and am trying to decide on a yeast to use which will give me a good spicey clovelike flavor that is typical of this style. I've heard that some of the Wyeast strains are problematic and don't give an assertive clove flavor. I also just read the posting about a sulfur aroma coming from one of the Wyeast wheat beer strains. So what's the best yeast to use? Are there any others that are better than those from Wyeast? --- Andy Ross --- ross at mscf.med.upenn.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 09:10:41 -0400 From: MicahM1269 at aol.com Subject: Moravia III All this talk about the Moravia III barley in the Coors commercial. While this may be an interesting approach to beer adds with the big boys, since the % of any malt is mighty low. The big C might be opening up for false advertising. It would seem that no one told the ad men that, about a year ago they began using a strain of barley know as Galena ( not to be confused with the hops). The Moravia III is no longer being cultivated ( so far as I know ) for agricultural reasons. The Moravia III was reputed to be an excellent brewing barley, and the Galena as well. micah millspaw - brewer at large Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 08:31:26 -0640 From: FLATTER%MHS at mhs.rose-hulman.edu Subject: using buck wheat The last time I was in the area health store I bought a couple of pounds of buck wheat grain. My original thought was to combine it with the pound of steel cut oats I also bought to make a Belgian wit beer. It has since occurred tome that buckwheat pancakes are MUCH darker than whole wheat pancakes. Does that mean buckwheat would make a darker beer too? I'd also like to know if I need to malt either of these grains. I suspect that they both will need to be malted before mashing them. Any opinions out there? ++++++++++++++ Neil Flatter Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology Chemistry - Math (CMA) Department of Chemistry Stockroom Manager Novell Supervisor 5500 Wabash Avenue 73 (812) 877 - 8316 Terre Haute, IN 47803-3999 FAX: 877 - 3198 Flatter at Rose-Hulman.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 08:17:12 -0500 (EST) From: david lawrence shea <dshea at indiana.edu> Subject: RE: SNPA and dryhopping Thanks Jim for that information. I too have recently discovered that dry hopping helps me get closer to capturing the flavors of these great microbrews. I do have a question for all of the dryhopping veterans out there. I have dryhopped two different pale ales attempting to clone Ballard Bitter and Redhook ESB. I came very close to their flavor, however, in both cases the hop flavor/aroma was a bit too sweet and too citrus-like in its flavor. This flavor was the appropriate taste for the beers, but it was too much, even after a month and a half of aging. I calculated the proper amount of bittering hops needed and the grain needed for the proper SG reading. For the Ballard bitter I used 3/4 ounce Willamette hops(finishing) and 3/4 ounce Willamette to dry hop (for a 1.048 SG beer). For the Redhook (1.054), I used one ounce of Tettnanger (finishing) and an ounce Tettnanger to dry hop. My question is this: which of these amounts should I reduce, the finishing hops or the dry hops. I know dryhopping isn't supposed to add flavor, but the change in taste was so dramatic when I dryhopped, I am not sure if this is true. BTW, the IBU's for those beers was around 32. In a couple weeks, I want to do a SNPA clone with dryhopping, so any advice would be greatly appreciated. David L. Shea Indiana University dshea at ucs.indiana.edu Return to table of contents
Date: 10 Apr 95 10:20:00 EST From: "SOA::S29033" <S29033%SOA.decnet at oscar.sea.sikorsky.com> Subject: torque/Brewery design-operations I just couldn't keep from putting in my 2 cents worth in on this lb-ft and ft-lb subject. They are indeed the same thing because of the commutative law of multiplication. Now, to confuse things a little more...if one is dealing with lb-f and lb-ft then there is a difference. One is pound-force and the other pound-feet. One must be clear when writing their units because confusion on these seemingly insignificant things may result in the collapse of bridges or buildings or a variety of other nasty disasters (e.g. fermenters blowing up). Personally, my favorite unit of measure is furlongs per fortnight. On the subject of breweries and brewery operations; can anyone suggest a reference for starting a brewery describing the logistics involved in starting and operating a brewery? I bought and read a Microbrewers Conference book from the AHA, found it interesting, but it was a little short on detail. I am interested in a typical brewery design and process control. Brewery capacity is not critical at this point - an article or text briefly describing construction and operation of a 15 bbl system (or bigger) would be adequate. TIA. Lance Stronk Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 10:30:15 -0400 From: steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil (Steve Zabarnick) Subject: Re: 1995 Bluebonnet Brew-off Results In HBD 1702 Chris Simon reported on the 1995 Bluebonnet Brew-off Results >17. Vienna/Oktoberfest/Marzen > 1st - Steven Zabarnick, independent from Dayton, OH Actually, I believe I submitted with my affiliation with DRAFT (Dayton Regional Amateur Fermentation Technologists). Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 95 08:35:33 EST From: guyruth at abq-ros.com Subject: 95 Spring Thing Results Below are the ribbon/medal results from the Dukes of Ale's 5th Annual Spring Thing Competition. ============================ Automated Message ============================ There was a file attached to this message on the Bulletin Board System. This file attachment has been routed in subsequent messages. ============================= End of Message ============================== Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 95 09:38:01 EST From: Joseph_Fleming_at_GSA-2P__2 at ccgate1.gsa.gov Subject: Racking to 2 secondaries Regarding the racking thread - I've got a lot of 4-5 gal plastic buckets and no carboys. Can I rack from my 6.7 gal primary to two 4 gal plastic containers or will I be forcing natural selection on the yeast in my beer? Iffen I can, would the rack still be performed when active fermentation has subsided or at a later date? Thanks for the help. Joe - JOSEPH.FLEMING at GSA.GOV Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 95 10:20:57 EST From: "Crake_Kurtis_LT" <Crake_Kurtis_LT at hq.navsea.navy.mil> Subject: Apology/Orange peel and infected wort summaries First, let me apologize for the double-posting that occurred with my question about bitter orange peel sources. I didn't receieve the come-back message from the mailer, and assumed that my note bounced. In the future, I resolve to have more patience. ***** Many people were good enough to share their knowledge about the orange peel situation. Several mentioned that the gentleman who operates the Frozen Wort (Charlie Olchowsky - apologies in advance for potential mispelling) has a different job in "real life", and is not always available to take calls and orders. Three people mentioned leaving a summary of what they desired to purchase, their address, and a credit card number on his telephone answering machine. They all received their merchandise. My wife - -- who wanted the orange peel in the first place -- has decided to try this method. Bill Arduser said that he thought bitter orange peel might be available at: Beer & Winemaking Supply 154 King Street Northampton,MA 01060 (413) 586-0150 Michael Froehlich operates a brewing supply shop. He said that he normally doesn't do mail order, but that if I was really stuck, he would try to help me out. He suggested e-mailing him to work out details. His store is: Stein Fillers 4180 Viking Way Long Beach, CA 90808 (310)425-0588 and his e-mail address is: froeh at thor.naa.rockwell.com. His offer to conduct a mail-order transaction with me was private, but I asked if he might extend that offer to other brewer's having difficulty obtaining orange peel. He might. Ask him. A couple of people cautioned against the temptation to use the peel from Valencia (navel or seedless) oranges. Apparently this gives the beer a "ham" taste. I will definitely not try that. Ham? In beer? Yeeech. Only one person, rather well-known, added information about acceptable substitutes. He said that one could use the peel from tangerines (I believe these are the same fruit as Mandarin oranges), but that the resulting beer would like the vegetal bitterness produced by the Curacao orange. He did allow that when he brews a wit, he uses a 3:2 combination of Curacao to tangerine. My wife has also decided to try this. Eventually. I have no financial interests in these businesses, just trying to spread the word. There must be others out there looking for this stuff. ********* I recently asked another question, about viscous looking goop on my krausen. Out of the ten responses I got, there was unanimous agreement that I shouldn't have pitched the first batch. The line of reasoning was that once you've put all that effort into mashing, lautering, cooling, etc., you might as well make the small investment in priming and bottling. It might not be infected, and unusual smells and appearance are not always indicative of a serious problem. Several people noted that some yeast strains have a tendency to develop the sort of appearance I described. The American ale (Wyeast 1056) and Weinstephan (Wyeast 3068?) strains were mentioned by name, and those were exactly the strains I was using. I am still convinced the first batch was actually infected -- there was a distinct rotten vegetable odor, and it was developing a sour-milk taste. I racked the second batch to a secondary fermentor, leaving the funny looking goop behind, and it seems to have been fine. Smells, looks, and tastes OK. I guess what I've learned here is that judging on appearance alone is not sufficient. Use your smeller and taster as well. Verbosely, Kurt Crake Crake_Kurtis_LT at hq.navsea.navy.mil -or- Kcrake at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: 10 Apr 95 9:04:53 EST From: M.Marshburn/D202 at cgsmtp.comdt.uscg.mil Subject: Wyeast 3944 Belgium/White beer Hello All Mar 31 I made up my first White beer clone, 4lbs Pils and 4lbs red wheat. My mash schedule was rest 117F 30 mins, 126F 45mins, 148 45mins. I put the 3944 yeast thru two starters so I had about 1 1/2 ozs of yeast. The og was only 1040 due, I think, to not mashing out, temp at pitching was 75F. 14 hrs later the first indications of krausen appeared, later that night it started coming out the airlock hole in my fermenter. I don't put the airlock in immediately, I cover the hole with a clean, soaked in vodka rag. My fermenter is a 7 1/2 gal plastic container and from brew level to lid is a good 4 inches. Sunday morning I racked to a glass carboy and attached a blowoff hose it kept the hose full of gunk 4 days. I removed the blowoff hose and attached the airlock Saturday. Taking a sample for gravity measurement and tasting, the gravity was only 1030! The beer has cleared up pretty well, the airlock still bubbles 4-5 times a minute. Making as much foam as this brew has made I was caught flatfooted by the gravity. Is this usual for the yeast? Did my mash schedule not allow for enough yeast nutrients? The brew tasted pretty good even though it was still sweet. The temp in the basement has been pretty steady at 65F. Should I just let it go like it is, or is there anything I can do to get the gravity down where it belongs?? m.marshburn/D202 at cgsmtp.comdt.uscg.mil Return to table of contents
Date: 10 Apr 95 09:47:00 -0500 From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: Optimal Starter Use Sorry about the bandwidth use, but several attempts at private email have failed. In private email Michael writes (concerned about autolysis elsewhere in the email): >the past, I've assumed a starter must be used as soon as the >yeast has flocculated (and built up maximum glycogen reserves) to >achieve optimum results. But, will my starter remain healthy if I wait up to >two weeks before I pitch it? No. Waiting two weeks will not necessarily mean that the yeast will begin to autolyse, but it does mean that they will use up a significant amount of their glycogen stores for staying alive. If you have to wait a week or two, feed the starter with some more wort three or four days before you want to brew and let them go through the whole cycle again: fermentation and then flocculation. They will have their peak glycogen levels as they begin to flocculate again. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 95 10:47:54 EDT From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma) Subject: RE: Yeast, Hand Towels, RIMS Hi All, In HBD#1701, Robert W. Mech asks: >Lastly, being the frugal brewer, im interested in constructing a 3 tier >gravity fed system. I know that a few places sell complete kits to do >this, however im curious if building one would be cheaper. Has anyone >priced burners, etc? Does it end up cheaper making your own setup or >just purchasing one of the ones listed in Zymurgy, BT, etc. I know I can >get the kegs for the lousy $10 deposit (please, no legality flames) and >constructing the rack itself shouldnt be too hard (have welder friends). >Would it be cheaper to build this myself? If you have welding equipment, or friends who do, it is *definitely* cheaper to build it yourself. Last summer, with the assistance of a friend who owns welding equipment and who has to be the World's Greatest Gadget Guy (hi Mac!), I built just such a system. My system has two racks, one for the hot liquor tank, the other for the mash tun. We used 1" angle iron to construct the racks, which was scrounged from a junkyard. It took just one Sunday afternoon to cut, grind and weld the racks. I spent another couple of hours cleaning them up with the wire brush attachment on my drill, and painting them with a special paint that's used for woodstoves and can withstand high heat. Cost: $6 for the paint, and all the homebrew Mac and I could drink on a Sunday afternoon. All three of my brewing vessels, hot liquor tank, mash/lauter tun, and brew kettle, are of the lousy $10 1/2 bbl converted Sankey variety. All three are fitted with 1/2" NPT stainless nipples, held in place by sanitary welds. These welds were done by a professional welder who normally charges $50/hour, but who provided the nipples and did this work for a few six packs of homebrew. Never underestimate the bartering power of homebrew. Cost: $30 for kegs, and a few six packs of homebrew. For burners, the one for the hot liquor tank is of roughly the same size and output as a Cajun Cooker, but is a homegrown model constructed from bits of scrap pipe. Took about an hour to weld it together, including the flame diffusion plate. It brings 13 gallons of water to a rolling boil in about 25 minutes. I bought a high pressure regulator, hose, and fittings for this burner from Metal Fusion (basically, it was the replacement part for a Cajun Cooker) for $15. For the mash tun, I bought a low pressure, multi-jet casting from Metal Fusion (part# WKAF2, price $15.50) and scrounged a low pressure (5 psi) regulator from an old gas grill. This burner allows for gentle heating of the mash during temperature step mashing. Total cost for both burners: $30.50. I bought a false bottom for this system, made of perforated stainless steel, and hinged in the middle so it can be installed and removed easily. Under the false bottom, I installed a 1/2" copper pickup tube so that the wort is drawn from the lowest point. The pickup tube is attached to the SS nipple via a 1/2" compression fitting. Cost: $40. A nice little piece of equipment that I added, but which is not absolutely necessary to make beer with this setup, was a small pump. Magnetic drive, food grade polypropylene(sp?) housing rated to 200F, 6 GPM, laminar flow, the pump is suitable for use in a RIMS system. Addition of RIMS controls and plumbing is the project for this coming summer, for now I use the pump to rack wort from brewpot to fermenters, and to recirculate mash while the tun is being heated. Cost: $80. So, here's my outlay for this system: Pump $80 (optional, but makes brewing easier) Kegs $30 Burners $30.50 False bottom $40 Paint $6 Propane tank $10 (reconditioned, for rack burners) Misc $50 (ball valves, hose barbs, clamps, hoses, etc.) ---------------------------------------------------------------- $246.50 Prior to building this system, I looked into commercial 3 tier gravity fed systems and found most of them priced around $2000, some were even higher. While some of these systems come with RIMS capability which mine doesn't have, I figure if I can add the RIMS electronics and plumbing for under $1800 or so, I'm still way ahead of the game. :-) The obvious cost benefits aside, I got a great deal of satisfaction from building brewing equipment from what was essentially junk. Also, I can now brew 10-12 gallon batches with much less effort than I used to expend to brew just 5 gallons. My brewing process now largely consists of lighting burners, opening and closing valves and switches at the appropriate time, and monitoring temperatures, it's far less labor intensive than before. Cheers, Jim dipalma at sky.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 08:23:52 -0700 From: Jon Binkley <binkley at genome.Stanford.EDU> Subject: RE The Secrets of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale On Mon, 10 Apr 1995, Jim Fitzgerald wrote: > Yeast: [deletia] > I do have this > culture from the bottle but I have never used it because from what I > have read in some places it is a different yeast that they use to > bottle condition, which I don't really think I believe, but I'm not > willing to blow a batch of good beer either. I don't know for sure that it's the identical yeast (though I've always heard that it is), but I'm sure that you wouldn't be "blowing your batch," unless you'd consider anything but a perfect clone to be blown. I've tried very nice pale ales that were fermented by SNPA dregs. I noticed that you covered only three of the Big Four ingredients in your excellent synopsis. Is there anything special about Chico's water supply, or does SN do any special water treatment? Jon Binkley Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 95 11:37:35 EST From: A2J at CU.NIH.GOV Subject: noble hops & yeast question > 1. I just received my Noble hops from SA. Does anyone have a great > extract recipe I could use these in ? Hmm. These are the Hallertauer Mittelfrueh? A German style would be appropriate. Do you like any German styles particularly? Lagers need cold conditioning. Maybe a Weizen? > 2. I was at our local brewpub and was talking with the brewer/owner. > When I told him that I was just learnig how brew beer he offerd > me free yeast. He said to just bring a jar and he would fill it up. > I'd be intersted to hear anyones thoughts on this. What kind of > container, how should I clean the jar, how much do I need, or is > just a bad idea altogether ? Does this stuff keep in the fridge? I would use a canning jar and fill it half full of water. I would boil this 10-15 minutes. Leave it sealed until you get to the brewpub. Then go home and put it in the fridge until you are ready to brew. I wouldn't wait more than a week, though. (I'm no expert, just antsy). John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 12:20:32 EDT From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com Subject: Jay Hersh and PBS?? Jay Hersh expounds on his electronic mailing list: >said forum is commercial free and invitation only, targeted at advanced >homebrewers, sory if this annoys you but in America we are still allowed the >freedom to choose who we associate with. Subscription requests acceptance is >based on several things. Maintaining a manageable size, maintaining discussion >of desired quality and maintaning a Private and commercial free discussion. >Think of it as the PBS of homebrewing... I do not have any objection to the list, to his objectives, or the private nature of the forum. And I certainly value the desire to avoid blatant commercialism. But Jay is wrong, wrong, wrong, to call it the "PBS of homebrewing." Let's be more accurate and call it the Cable-TV, or even the "Pay-per-view" of homebrewing. A "PBS of homebrewing" would be public, not private, and would be available to the broadest possible public, rather than only to those with the money to pay, in the case of cable TV, or the experience to be deemed "worthy" of "invitation" to the list. Of course you have the freedom of association, and I would add, are under no obligation to expend the effort to expand it to others. But it's a contradiction to use the PBS analogy when your goal is to be exclusive. Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace / uswlsrap at ibmmail.com - ---THE INTERNET: Hardwiring the neurons of the global brain:--- One geek at a time.... - --------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1704, 04/12/95