HOMEBREW Digest #1711 Fri 21 April 1995

Digest #1710 Digest #1712

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Breakfast Jello (Russell Mast)
  Anybody know what "sweet gale seeds" are... (Dave Hensley)
  RIMS / boiling water/ pumps (Eamonn McKernan)
  Amylase enzyme (Jeremy Ballard Bergsman)
  Things I should have learned in Kindergarten. (John Gallant)
  Amylase activity (kevin)
  Sour Beer (was "That 'homebrew' taste")/ Corny Carbonation (Kirk R Fleming)
  Are all kegs stainless steel? (Matt Koster)
  first mash (ESMPD)" <gcunning at Census.GOV>
  Re: Artificial Carbonation (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  "Cheating" on fruit beers ("Harralson, Kirk")
  Gott Coolers (DONBREW)
  Dry/Finish Hopping / NA Beer / Plastic flavor (Keith Frank)
  Heat-resistant tubing buy? (spencer)
  eating hops (Rich Larsen)
  GrapeNuts at  Beer (MHANSEN)
  Great British Beer Festival '95 (Bill Hunter)
  Re: #2(2) Homebrew Digest #17... (BrewDaddy)
  Infection / Keg Hose (Norman Pyle)
  DMS (Andy Walsh)
  Amylase enzymes and amylase enzy (ALKinchen)
  ftp.stanford.edu? (Philip Gravel)
  HELP - Bottling Problems (SBUXTON)
  Beer Engine repair (t.olsen)
  Re: Beer Talk (mark evans)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 10:22:01 -0500 From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> Subject: Breakfast Jello > From: kevinm at rocdec.roc.wayne.edu (Kevin McEnhill) > The ingredients for Grape-Nuts at : The salt level is innapropriate for brewing. Of course, there was one time that Jake was brewing a batch, and I happened to be visiting and getting drunk with Jake and his roommate Rob. Rob and I have a mischevous streak, so when Jake wasn't looking, we slipped a cup of Grape-Nuts into the partial mash. I forget how the beer turned out, I don't think I ended up getting any. > In HBD 1707, Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu> said: > > > HBD 1705 was full of comments about gelatin, most of them emphasizing > > that it should not be boiled "because it gets denatured". > > > > Reality check, please! Folks, that is utter poppycock! Well, somehow a post I accidentally sent to the "request" address got processed as an "unsubscribe", so I missed a lot of this, but I was one of the "don't boil" people. I don't know WHAT happens to gelatin when boiled. Apparently, it's not a 'denaturing', though more on that in a minute. The bottom line for me is that whenever *I* have boiled gelatin, it didn't make any difference in the beer, and when I didn't boil it, it did make a difference. Maybe it's a coincidence, I don't know. Maybe it made a difference, but other factors lead me to believe otherwise. I'd say don't boil. > >Gelatin _is_ > > denatured protein: "Denaturation of collagen is the conversion of the > > rigidly coiled helix to a random coil called gelatin." (Merck Index > > 11th ed.) Isn't it feasible that this random coil could be FURTHER denatured into smaller, less brwe-useful coils, or into component amino acids, or something? I'm no biologist, senator, but I think gelatin can be further broken down. > From: rhanson at nmsu.edu (Robin Hanson) > The balloon that inflates inside the pig, has always kept pace with the > space made by removing one pitcher. Currently however, the pig has a lot of > head room. Could this be oxygen? Think about it. Where would it have come from? Once you clear out all the headspace in the pig, and purge all the gas, there's no more oxygen. If any oxygen gets in, it's got to come in from outside. So, no, unless your pig was sucking air IN through the tap, there's no oxygen in there. (Not in any real quantities, there's probably a couple ppm or ppb always.) > From: Norman Pyle <npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM> > Collin, amylase enzyme is most active around 150F... > Adding it to a sweet wort at room temperature, well > I'd think it would do almost nothing, even over several days. Again, I'm no chemist, but I think it will do something at room temperature within a couple of days. My worry would be that it would remain active in there for a couple of months, and you'll end up with gushers at 0.990 FG. Think about it. (I love saying that.) These enzymes, in the wild, convert starch to sugar for the barley to use to grow. So, yeah, in an hour at room temp, it's not a good idea if they're really effective, but a week? I'd think so. I'd still worry about gushers, but then I often do. > IMHO, Yeast Labs (and other commercial yeast ranchers) ought to be the one > paying for 2nd day air. Then they pass the cost on to the retailer, who passes it on to us. But, it's probably worth an extra buck to have good yeast. > From: jwolf at penril.com > Subject: That "homebrew" taste Sounds like you're using dry yeast. Try using liquid yeast. Not all bacterial infections will leave a ring. Does every bottle develop the same problem at around the same rate? If not, your sanitation problems are probably during bottling. -R Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 11:02:53 CDT From: dhensley at ttsi.tandem.com (Dave Hensley) Subject: Anybody know what "sweet gale seeds" are... Pierre Rajotte's book "Belgian Ale" has a receipe for a Christmas beer calling for sweet gale seeds. He says that the seeds are strongly aromatic and were used extensively in the middle ages. He also gives the scientific name as "myrica gale". My sole source of herbal information is the Rodale Herb book, which only lists one "myrica cerifera", aka bayberry, with leaves and roots being used for medicinal purposes. This is the familiar bayberry used in Christmas candles. No mention is made of seeds. So, does anyone know what the heck sweet gale seeds are, what they taste like, and how to acquire some? Any information would be appreciated since I want to get ahead of the curve this year and actually have a drinkable Christmas beer at Christmas. BTW, I am also now a witness for the steam injected Gott system. Mine cost about $90 total, including the steam injection stuff, required no surgery on either the Gott or the pressure cooker, and will heat 4 gallons of water about 4-5 degrees F. every 10 minutes. Extract efficiency into the primary fermenter has been about 86%. An added bonus is the thing has a powerful low bass rumbling sound when operating, which is strangely satisifying. The major brewing hassle now is sparge water management. - ------------------------------------------------------------------ Dave Hensley Tandem Telecom Phone: (214) 516-6295 1255 West 15th, #7060 MS 4 Fax: (214) 516-6804 Plano, TX 75075 Email: dhensley at ttsi.tandem.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 12:04:25 EDT From: Eamonn McKernan <eamonn at rainbow.physics.utoronto.ca> Subject: RIMS / boiling water/ pumps I'm slowly catching up on my digest reading. I don't post often, but that's because my posts are usually quite long. I figure that makes up for it. My computer controlled RIMS is a week away from completion. A full report will be posted for anyone who's interested. But a warning: this is a time consuming, expensive project! Robert Mech beware. You may save some coin, but what is your time worth? Spend $200 for a Sabco keg with the thermometer and SS screen with the top cut off. The hassle of doing it yourself is not worth it. Unless of course you're a poor grad student with no money, in which case the question is moot! Probably building the racks etc will be worth the effort though. AS for Chuck Wettergreen's BASIC stamp card idea, I personally ruled this option out since they can only take a few dozen lines of code. But they might be O.K. for simple control algorithms. However, 8088's can be had for free, and are capable of much more (boat anchors, etc...), so why buy a card? *************** Is boiling brewing water worth it? Toronto water has lots of chlorine, and my beers have a metallic taste which the people at my local homebrew store attribute to my not boiling my water. I don't get it. I do all-grain, so the wort is boiled for an hour. Why pre boil the water before mashing and sparging? ************** Anyone built Rodney Morris' motor controller? Mine doesn't work, and my project due date is fast approaching! I have a March Manufacturing 1/15hp motor i got for $35 CDN. I need to get this sucker under (computer) control. It's too damn powerful! It's a 240V pump which I use a transformer (120->240V) to run, and it draws .9A current. Quick suggestions are desperately requested. I forget who was saying that their heater element wasn't powerful enough for large batches, but whoever you are, Buy a transformer, and run it off the 240V it was designed for. Control the output using a variable duty cycle. All you need is a 555 timer, a resistance pot, and a solid state relay switch. Too bad this won't work for motors! ************** One final note: I've seen alot of posts recently with people looking for various kinds of information such as prices for supplies and other stuff without giving an indication of WHERE THEY LIVE. This can be important. For example, here in Toronto I know of surplus stores where I can buy exotic stuff for dirt cheap (eg. my pump). But this is useless to anyone living in California. It was proposed a while back that people always put their present location (city) in their posts. This helps brewers connect who live nearby, as well as making the HBD more personable all around. Some internet addresses are pretty self-explanatory (fortunately mine is), but others give very little information about the sender. Such is my opinion on the subject. Eamonn Mckernan eamonn at rainbow.physics.utoronto.ca To add one more datapoint, I think most of the HBD communication happens through private e-mail. Certainly I send much more private e-mail than postings. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:27:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeremy Ballard Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU> Subject: Amylase enzyme Just a few strands to toss into the amylase thread. First, I believe the original post was a query about for what to use it. Here are the two uses I have found: 1) if you fear that you have overheated your mash (past 160F or so) and you are worried about excess starch making it through to the beer, you can let the mash cool back down and add some amylase to supplement what you have destroyed. 2) I sometimes make experimental series of beers. One type of these is to test the effect of specialty malts. It is easiest to mash these by themselves and add the result of the specialty malt mashes to a uniform wort produced from extract or pale malt. But since many (most) specialty malts have no diastatic power (amylase), I use pure amylase to mash them. For a better description of what I do, get the file about experimental beers from my beer page on the web: http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb/beerstuff/beerpage.html Also, when using amylase, don't assume that the best temperature is 150F. The amylases you can buy come from many different sources, (I think) usually not barley. For example, I have bought Koji, the amylase used in Sake making, which is derived, if I'm not mistaken, from the mold aspergillus. Its best temperature is ~125F. Jeremy Bergsman It's=it is jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu Its=belonging to it Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 12:38:43 EDT From: jag at pt.com (John Gallant) Subject: Things I should have learned in Kindergarten. Hello All; Well I bottled my first batch of extract wheat beer last night. I used a piece of equipment that I don't think comes standard in the brewing books. My Primary and Secondary are kept in the "dryer" room, a room off of the dining room, and I have to move the beer from there to my kitchen. When I first racked to the secondary and moved it to the dryer room my wife and I had a b*tch of a time trying to move it. Last night I was on my own, Mom and the kids were visiting Grandpa, and I had to get the secondary back into the kitchen. I really did not want to slosh the beer much at all ! While I was pondering the problems of Newtonian physics, my dog had to go out. I took her out, and while I was waiting for her, I noticed my daughters *little red wagon*. I was "stocked" with flower pots filled with dirt and worms she had collected from the freshly roto-tilled garden. Needless to say, I liberated the worms and pressed the wagon into service. It worked like a charm ! I was able to gently lower the secondary onto the wagon, roll it into the kitchen, and lift the carboy onto the table for siphoning. I was also able to use the wagon to wheel the 2+ cases of bottles from the kitchen to the cellar door. So now, the next time that I brew/rack/bottle, I will be armed with my tubing, racking canes, buckets, bottles, and Little Red Wagon !! - -- John A. Gallant jag at pt.com Brew Apprentice of the 10-Hands Brewery A family own/operated enterprise since '92. Currently located in lovely Downtown Lima N.Y. PS - Special thanks to Laura Gallant for letting Daddy play with her toys. :-) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 11:35:35 -0600 (MDT) From: kevin at wheels.aar.com Subject: Amylase activity >>Collin wrote: >>I've used amylase enzyme once. I had a brew down in which I had used >>laaglander dry malt. The fermentation process froze at 1.024 or so. >>I talked to one of my local homebrew stores and the guy recommended >>using the enzyme, which would break down the complex sugars in the >>laaglander into simple sugars the yeast could eat. I guess laaglander >>has a higher complex sugar level. I used about a teaspoon to 5 gallons. >>Fermentation restarted not long after. Final reading was 1.008 or so. > Norman Pyle said: >Collin, amylase enzyme is most active around 150F (I'll bet you a buck >someone will post the *exact* figure...), which is why all-grain brewers mash >around that temperature. Adding it to a sweet wort at room temperature, well >I'd think it would do almost nothing, even over several days. I suspect your >stuck fermentation started for some other reason (temperature swing? wild >yeast?), although I admit I've never heard of a laaglander wort that >fermented down to 1.008. Also, the enzyme denatures almost immediately at >boiling temperatures so it would be a waste of time and money to add it to >the boil. ALthough I am new to homebrewing, I had done some LEGAL alcohol distillation back in the early 80's, during the fuel alcohol craze. I had some commercial enzymes, of which amylase was one. I had the activity curves for the enzymes, and amylase is active even at room temps, so I have no doubt that Collin's brew did benefit from the addition of amylase. The reason all-grain brewers mash at around 150F is because that is it's highest activity temperature. In fact, if amylase had no activity at room temp, then the poor ol' barley seed would have no use for the enzyme that it does use to break down its stored starch reserves at room temperatures and below! - -- Kevin Hass WB0DPN ! ! PGP public key by request via email kevin at wheels.aar.com ! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 12:24:03 -0600 From: flemingk at usa.net (Kirk R Fleming) Subject: Sour Beer (was "That 'homebrew' taste")/ Corny Carbonation Jeff W says his beer tastes fine early on, but then developed a sour, carbonated character. This sounds like my symptoms I reported some time back with a 10 gal kegged batch. Are you rinsing the bottles with tap water? Do you have grist flour in the air/environment when you're bottling (could airborne dust possibly be getting into your bottling bucket)? I'm not sure I reported back on the final outcome of our soured keg, but finally we were detecting an incredible carbonation (and associated pressure) in the keg. My associated decided it was time to dump the beer out, so I took a sample in a sterile vial, and he took a hyrdrometer read: 1.002, down from about 15 at kegging time. So...have you retained a few of these bottles or have you dumped them all out? Our beer continued to get increasing sour, and clearly it continued to ferment. It would be interested to know if your's levels out, or continues to ferment (eventually blowing a bottle, I'd guess). It was suggested by several folks I had lacto or pedio infection, and it sounds as though you might, too. CornyCarbonation-- Troy H asks about two methods of forced carbonation. I use Method 2, wherein I charge the keg with 12 psi for initial conditioning and also for dispensing. Now, I've been putting half-batches in the kegs (about 2.5-2.7 gal), charging to 12 psig, shaking, and letting sit in the garage (nominally about 45F right now). My carbonation levels do recede as I drain the keg, so I just top up the pressure. For me and my pale ales, 12 psi has been absolutely perfect, and as it decarbonates I have not even bothered maintaining the charge, until some pressure was needed for dispense. With my lines/setup, 5 psi would not be enough to fill a pint glass in a timely fashion--10 to 12 seems perfect for me--I'm at 6000 ft amsl, which I guess would be a factor. Kirk R Fleming Colorado Springs flemingk at usa.net Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 13:29:49 0000 From: Matt Koster <matthewk at csd.uwm.edu> Subject: Are all kegs stainless steel? Hi, Are all kegs stainless steel? Most kegs seems so light that I find it hard to believe they are 100% steel. The kegs I'm refering to are the kind that Miller, Leinenkugels, and Bud come in. If they are a steel aluminum mix, do they still work for all-grain? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Mk... _______________________________________________________________ Matt Koster Located in beautiful Email : matthewk at csd.uwm.edu post-industrial WWW : http://www.uwm.edu/~matthewk/ Milwaukee, WI Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 14:35:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Cunningham (ESMPD)" <gcunning at Census.GOV> Subject: first mash Hi there - I've really enjoyed posts where people describe their "first-mash" experiences, so here's mine. Actually, it's a description along with some questions! I did everything relatively simply (I think). I mashed in a cooler (34 quart igloo, left over from my swill drinking days) with a copper manifold. My manifold was constructed of 1/2 in. rigid copper tubing, shaped in a big "U" that layed in the bottom of my cooler, with a straight section leading from the bottom of the "U" out the drain plug: E----------L E 1/2" copper end cap | L 1/2" copper elbow T--N== T 1/2" copper tee | N 1/2"-->3/8" copper nipple E----------L - 1/2" copper tubing = 3/8" x 1/4" vinyl tubing (my drain plug has a 3/8" diameter hole) (I always wanted to be an ascii artist) I cut halfway through the straight pieces of copper about every 1/2 inch, using one of those tube-cutter tools. I had to use about 1/2" of vinyl tubing to connect the copper nipple to the drain plug (no drilling, stoppers, bending, soldering, etc.) and used the same size tubing on the outside of the cooler, with a clamp to restrict sparge flow. I couldn't force a single piece of tubing through the hole, so I used two. I tested it all beforehand with hot water to check for leaks. Other extra equipment I needed were a 33 quart enamel pot, a 200,000 BTU cajun cooker, and a propane tank. I was going for a Liberty Ale type beer (my latest favorite). I know some of you out there frown upon recipes in the Digest, but here's mine: 10 lbs (pre-crushed) British 2-row 2.25L 1 lb (pre-crushed) crystal - British 2-row 60L .5 oz. Eroica (12%) 60 min. .5 oz. Centennial (6.6%) 30 min. .5 oz. Williamette (4.5%) 20 min. 1/2 Tbs. irish moss 15 min. (rehydrated ~6 hrs, small flakes) .5 oz. Centennial (6.6%) 2 min. .5 oz. Williamette (4.5%) 2 min. 2 oz. Centennial (6.6%) dry hop, plugs, 2 weeks? (<-- I'm open to suggestions) Wyeast 1056, 16 oz. 1.040 starter I put this recipe in here so you can give me some feedback if you want. I also think we homebrewers can learn a lot trying to zero in on a specific recipe. I used Centennial cuz my local shop was out of Cascade, Eroica cuz it was in my freezer, and Willamette cuz the guy at the shop said "Why don't you throw in some Williamette?". So there. I decided on a single-step infusion mash, since it's the easiest (good thing - or I might still be there). I heated my mash water (11 qts - 1qt/pound of grain)to about 168F and then I "doughed-in" (that's a term us all-grainers use :^) and my mash temp dropped to about 158F. I was expecting a 16 degree drop, but only dropped 10. This may be because I preheated my cooler with hot water, I don't know. Anyway, I checked the temp about every 15 minutes, and it dropped to ~152F after 60 minutes. Checked the pH at 60 min. and got 5.2, I think. Didn't bother with a iodine test. This part was really easy, and I was feeling rather confident. Then came sparging. This part always puzzled me - I could never quite visualize it, so I just did it. It took me an hour and a half! I guess/hope I'll get better at it. I heated 22 quarts of water to somewhere between 170-180F, this took almost all the pots & pans I had. It was a three ring circus. I had one of those "ratchet-type" plastic clamps - one setting was a trickle (too slow) and the next setting was producing bubbles (too fast), so I had to hold the clamp with my thumb. Any practical advice on sparging would be greatly appreciated!! I think I'll try the thumb-screw type clamp if I can find them. I recirculated the first 2 quarts - most of the cloudiness was gone by then). Oh yeah, I meaured the gravity after sparging - 1.049 x 6.2 gallons = 303.8 pts. Do I divide this by 10 (lbs of grain, for ~30 pts/lb/gal) or 11 (lbs of grain, including crystal, for ~27 pts/lb/gal)?? Either way, I should have had a starting gravity of around 1.060, and I was still relatively full of myself. Next was the fun part. I got to try out my new 200,000 BTU cay-jun cooker. I hooked up my new propane tank out on my old deck. My wife was saying "Are you _sure_ you know what you're doing?" She was about to grab the kid and head for the opposite side of the house, when I reassured her that this was safer than our fireplace. Meanwhile, I was thinking "I hope I know what I'm doing", and lit that sucker up (with a very long match, I might add). That guy who does this in his bathroom either has major-league brass Kahunas (sp?) or very little brains. These things put out some serious heat! I had absolutely _no_ scorching problem, though, and I had the single-jet type burner. It was great! I'll never go back inside (until next Winter anyway). Boiled 6.2 gallons down to way less than 5 gal., so I had to add some water back. I'm not sure if I had the flame adjusted right. I tried to do the whirlpool technique to avoid syphoning hot/cold break, hops, and what have you, into the fermenter. I totally fouled this up. Somehow I ended up pouring the whole damn thing into the primary! I did go through a strainer, though. Is all this gunk gonna ruin my Perfect Liberty Clone??!! Can I leave most of it behind when I rack to the secondary? I wasn't feeling so confident after this - but I will, of course, drink every last drop of it - I was just wondering. Thanks, Jerry Cunningham Annapolis, MD Return to table of contents
Date: 19 Apr 95 13:41:00 -0500 From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: Re: Artificial Carbonation Troy writes: >Method #1 says to set the pressure to ~15psi (or whatever pressure the charts >advise to get you the number of volumes of CO2 required by your beer style). >Shake the keg (or wait 3-4 days). Then, to dispense, you keep this live >pressure on the beer, and use a length and diameter of tubing calculated to >drop the pressure from 15 psi to near zero at the faucet. >Method #2 says to set the pressure to ~15psi. Shake or wait. Then to >dispense, let the pressure down to ~5 psi. One then keeps 5psi of live >pressure on the beer permanently for dispensing. >Now, Method #1 makes more sense to me technically. <snip> You are absolutely right. >Method #2, OTOH, works! I have personally tasted a friend's beer who uses >method 2, and I cannot fault the carbonation level. However, it seems to me >that this results in a non-equilibrium condition, and that the beer would get >progressively less carbonated with time. (My friend, however, reports no such >problems.) It will work for a while. The CO2 dissolved in the beer won't come to equilibrium with the pressure in the headspace instantaneously, but after a few days, it most certainly will. The carbonation will last longer if you shut off the CO2 flow when you are not dispensing and will last indefinately if you raise the pressure up to the proper level for the temperature and carbonation level you want when you are not serving. Personally, I feel it is a lot easier to simply do the math at the beginning and then leave the gas on all the time. Mind you, it's important to not have any leaks in your system or you will be refilling your tanks way too often. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 16:06:01 EST From: "Harralson, Kirk" <kwh at news.roadnet.ups.com> Subject: "Cheating" on fruit beers Michael Lloyd writes: >Has anyone ever thought of using pureed canned fruit in fruit beers? It >occurred to me that juice pack canned fruit is already pasteurized by the >canning process. Can one simply puree a few cans and add the puree to >the secondary? >This strikes me as a compromise between the flavor and method complexity >of using fresh whole fruit versus using fruit extracts. >I would be interested to hear of any comments or ideas in this regard. I have never used canned fruit, but I've used just about everything else. IMO, the fruit extracts in homebrew shops aren't worth a damn, and using fresh or frozen fruit is a major PITA (sanitation concerns, volume loss due to pulp, siphoning, etc...). If you use canned fruit, you will still have the pulp to contend with. Probably the easiest thing to use is frozen juice concentrates from the grocery store. Chiquita makes a "Raspberry Passion" blend that is 100% juice (no preservatives). It is blended with other juices, but the raspberry flavor and aroma really comes through. I made a Pineapple sparkling wine using 100% pure pineapple concentrate diluted only to 1.100, which turned out great (if you're a pineapple fan). You still have to experiment to get the right flavor contributions, but it is much more consistent than fresh fruit. Fresh produce markets around here sell blueberry and cherry syrups in the summer that is just as easy to use. Most have corn syrup in them, but its a small price to pay, and almost invisible in a fruit beer anyway. I have used these in ales and meads, with very pleasing results. The only thing I have noticed is the beers take a little longer aging to mellow nicely. I know this is somewhat unconventional, but it has worked for me. Good Luck! Kirk Harralson Bel Air, Maryland Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 16:19:24 -0400 From: DONBREW at aol.com Subject: Gott Coolers This is a bulletin of local interest. I was in the Builder's Square store in Mannassas, Va. today, as we locals know this store is closing May 5. They had about 8 ten gallon Gott water coolers marked $39.99, but, as of today 4/19 everything in the store is 50% off marked price. Anybody for $20 Gott coolers. They also have a lot of electrical and plumbing stuff left. Brew Onward, Don Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 15:15:59 -0500 From: keithfrank at dow.com (Keith Frank) Subject: Dry/Finish Hopping / NA Beer / Plastic flavor *********** from Bruce DeBolt ************* Norman Pyle wrote on 4-15: >..... I have discussed with Glenn (Tinseth) a method to >create a hop tea in a sealed vessel (maybe a pressure >cooker), to prevent aromatics from escaping. A very short >boil and quick chill and then add to the _secondary_. I >want to see if I can increase dramatically the effects of >finish hopping without what I consider the drawbacks of dry >hopping. Comments? In the St. Patrick's (Austin) mail order catalog they mention something along these lines called Hop Tea, steeping 1-2 ounces of hops in "hot water" for 6-8 minutes, then adding to the bottling bucket. Perhaps Lynne O'Connor could comment? I haven't tried this. I'll send Lynne a direct e-mail note if nothing is posted in a few days. - ---------------------------------------------------------- NA Beer: from Lee C. Bussy on 4-15 >Cheryl Ramsey asked about ..... NA Beer: >People have heated the finished beer to ~170 deg F in an >effort to "boil off" the alcohol and have met with varying >results. One method that has intrigued me is the use of a >vacuum to lower the boiling point of the alcohol to room >temperature. If there are any engineers out there who can >help me with the pressure/temperature curve I would >appreciate the help. This is the same approach I would try if I had the equipment. I've done the boil-off/evaporate-off at 170-180F and noticed the beer becomes noticeably darker, undoubtedly other reactions are occurring at elevated temperatures to affect flavor besides driving off alcohol and concentration of color due to evaporation. Lee continues: >In short, there doesn't seem to be a good, consistent way >for a homebrewer to accomplish the removal of alcohol >at home with standard equipment. I agree with Lee, if you want to bottle. We ran gas chromatographs on the heated beer samples and proved you can do it on a kithchen stove, but you must drive off a fair amount of volume. I carbonated the resulting low alcohol beer immediately in a PET bottle with a Carbonator(R) cap (no affiliation, etc.) and consumed that day. Sanitation control would be an issue if bottled, you would have to add yeast, priming solution and re-carbonate. With a CO2 source, Carbonator cap, and quick consumption it's not too hard. After I posted my data Kelly Jones posted a note explaining that regardless of temperature you will always drive off a mixture of alcohol and water. A 20-25% reduction in volume of 3-7% alc. beer (and diluting back to original volume with water) would be required to get 0.5% alcohol, the legal definition of no alcohol. I haven't gone back and run this experiment at different temperatures, but it makes sense based on the results I found at 170-180F. If Cheryl will send me her internet address (I deleted the original note) I will forward more details. - ---------------------------------------------------------- ===> Spencer Thomas warns about tubing problems >I recently replaced all my plastic because of a possible >low-level infection problem. The new tubing I got from a >local homebrew shop had a "plastic" smell to it. I didn't >think about it, figuring it'd "wash out." > >Well...... Last night I had to dump 10 gallons of >otherwise very nice "plastic" beer down the drain. I use a >counterflow chiller, and the wort had apparently picked up >the plastic flavor/smell from the hot-side tubing. I had the same problem with "vinyl beer" last summer and couldn't say with absolute certainty whether it was due to some infection and/or the PVC tubing but I can say that the tubing smelled like a shower curtain, just the same as two batches I ruined in a back to back brewing campaign. They NEVER got any better, despite long aging in the secondary. While Spencer's problems were related to the hot side of the process, mine occurred after transferring from primary to secondary - alcohol extraction of plasticizer? Don't know. This was FDA grade tubing purchased from a local hardware store and washed in hot water with liquid dishwashing detergent. I went back to my trusty homebrew shop and bought their tubing, which smelled nice and neutral, and haven't had any problems since. Perhaps the lesson is the same as with other aspects of the brewing process - smell it or taste it before using it. Bruce DeBolt Lake Jackson, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 16:30:34 EDT From: spencer at med.umich.edu Subject: Heat-resistant tubing buy? Following up on my previous two postings about tubing, I have a proposal to make. I've located a source for 5/16" i.d. silicone tubing (clear, heat resistant to well over boiling, food-grade) at a bit over $1.00/ft (plus shipping / handling). I only *need* about 3 feet, so I'd like to put together a "bulk buy" to make up a 50ft coil. Send me e-mail if you are interested in purchasing some of this tubing. I need to know what length you would like to buy (in feet, of course). Your cost will be the prorated cost of your length plus my cost to ship it to you (figure a maximum of $3 for priority mail, less for slower shipping). =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI spencer at umich.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 15:33:24 -0500 From: rlarsen at squeaky.free.org (Rich Larsen) Subject: eating hops Hello All! Well, I heard you could do it, but I thought I'd give it a try, and its true! They're DELICIOUS!!! I'm talking about hop shoots. After you pinch off those early shoots from your hop plant, the proper way to toss 'em is with a bit of butter! Take the shoots, rinse well to remove any dirt or sand. Snap 'em off where the bine is still tender and not woody. Place them in a small fry pan and just enough water to cover. Top off with a pat or two of butter cover and simmer until fork tender. WONDERFUL! How do they taste? They remind me of a cross between asparagus and spinich. I thought I detected a slight tartness, but I may have been imagining it. Try seasoning with a little thyme or black pepper. Bon appetit! => Rich <rlarsen at squeaky.free.org> ________________________________________________________________________ Rich Larsen, Midlothian, IL. Also on HomeBrew University (708) 705-7263 Spice is the varity of life. ________________________________________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 16:37:10 -0600 From: MHANSEN at ctdmc.pmeh.uiowa.edu Subject: GrapeNuts at Beer Hey All, Kevin McEnhill list the ingredients for GrapeNuts cereal as wheat, malted barley, yeast, and salt (no preservatives, either). I have read somewhere (possibly in this forum) that military personnel stationed in the Persian Gulf used this to make beer. They would steep the cereal in warm water, boil it up with some indigenous plant material for bittering, and then naturally ferment it with the wild yeast of the area. I intend to try this sometime, but certainly not with natural fermentation. I live in a somewhat rural area with crops and livestock not too far away; Who knows what's floating in my air! Brew on, Mike (michael-d-hansen at uiowa.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 16:47:43 CDT From: Bill Hunter <BHUNTER at UA1VM.UA.EDU> Subject: Great British Beer Festival '95 Hello, Would anybody care to share with me the dates for the CAMRA Great British Beer Festival (in London) for this year??? TIA, Bill Hunter The U. of Alabama Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 19:12:58 -0400 From: BrewDaddy at aol.com Subject: Re: #2(2) Homebrew Digest #17... Jwolf writes: >I have had to throw out my last three batches of beer after 4-5 >weeks....After 3 or 4 weeks, it's fantastic! In two more weeks, >however, it gets a sour taste and very fizzy. I suspect a bacterial >infection but there is no ring in the bottle...Could it be an airborne >yeast instead of infection? I too have had the same problem on occasion, and my conclusion was that a wild yeast is involved. Airborne yeasts love to ride on the wings of dust or smoke from the kitchen. I had on occasion cooked lunch while I was brewing, and those beers almost always ended up infected. Any grease or smoke byproducts from cooking could conceivably be used by the wild yeast as a vehicle to land in your beer. The fact that your beer becomes "more fizzy" leads me to believe that you have a wild yeast that ferments some of the unfermentables that pure brewing yeast strains leave untouched. You may want to consider purchasing a glass carboy for a fermenter rather than plastic, which can be difficult to clean and sanitize if it gets scratched. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 17:18:20 MDT From: Norman Pyle <npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM> Subject: Infection / Keg Hose Jeff Wolf wrote about infection problems: > I have had to throw out my last three batches of beer after about 4-5 > weeks. > > I brew partial mash recipes, with a single fermentation stage in a > plastic bucket. After it ages 3 or 4 weeks, its fantastic! In two or > more weeks, however, it gets a sour taste and very fizzy. I suspect a > bacterial infection but there is no ring in the bottle. Maybe not > enough time for it to develop. I'd toss the plastic bucket for a carboy or at least another plastic bucket. I don't know your process, or other potential areas for infection, but a bucket, or a carboy for that matter, costs a lot less than 3 batches of beer. ** Troy Howard writes about keg serving pressures: >Method #1 says to set the pressure to ~15psi (or whatever pressure the charts >advise to get you the number of volumes of CO2 required by your beer style). >Shake the keg (or wait 3-4 days). Then, to dispense, you keep this live >pressure on the beer, and use a length and diameter of tubing calculated to >drop the pressure from 15 psi to near zero at the faucet. > >Method #2 says to set the pressure to ~15psi. Shake or wait. Then to >dispense, let the pressure down to ~5 psi. One then keeps 5psi of live >pressure on the beer permanently for dispensing. Troy, Method #1 works great for me for any pressure I dispense, and I don't need different lengths of tubing for different dispensing pressures. If you use at least 4' of 3/16" ID tubing, you'll drop enough pressure under almost any circumstances to have no problems dispensing. The pressure drop isn't linear, but its non-linearity works in your favor. If you use too much hose, you won't drop any more pressure than is there in the first place. You might lose a little flow rate because of the added back pressure, but it will work fine. Method #2 will definitely cause the beer to undercarbonate as the keg is drained, no question. If the keg is drained relatively quickly it won't be an issue, but over time it is a problem. Cheers, Norm Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:17:36 EDT From: awalsh at pop03.ca.us.ibm.net (Andy Walsh) Subject: DMS A correction to my recent DMS posting: DMSO is dimethyl sulphoxide not dimethyl sulphide as stated (this was a slip of the finger. In addition Australians and English write "sulphur" and not "sulfur"). Also, according to George Fix, DMSO is not converted to DMS by heat. This is contrary to Miller, the source of my information. DMSO is only converted to DMS in beer by bacterial activity. This should not affect the rest of my argument, as SMM is the major precursor, and is converted by heat to DMS. ***************************** //// Andy Walsh from Sydney //// awalsh at ibm.net //// phone 61 2 369 5711 ***************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 22:48:01 -0400 From: ALKinchen at aol.com Subject: Amylase enzymes and amylase enzy There are many "amylase enzymes" from many different sources and with many different characteristics. Enzymes are named for their substrates, i.e., the stuff that they operate on, in this case AMYLopectin and AMYLose, with "ase" on the end. The 'amylase enzymes' that you get at the homebrew shop may be of fungal origin or bacterial origin, and may have very different characteristics from the Alpha and Beta amylase enzymes that we know and love from malted barley. The homebrew shops, andprobably their suppliers, can't tell you where it came from, or at what temperature and pH that it is active. I have seen it sold as a remedy for chill haze, insoluble starch, and confirming Collin's experience, it works at room temperature and beer pH. Many biological systems use starch converted to sugar by an amylase enzyme as an energy source. If you hold a piece of white bread in your mouth, it will begin to taste sweet. Same thing. Remember, if it weren't for industrial amylase enzymes, dry beer would not be possible. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 21:56 CDT From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel) Subject: ftp.stanford.edu? ===> Bob Sinnema asks about what happened to ftp.stanford: >Hi all! I've been lurking and learning for a couple of months; my >brewing has improved significantly, thanks to the digest. Today, I ran >into a non-brewing problem when I tried to access the archives at Stanford >-- the "homebrew" directory apparently no longer exists. Where did it go? >Is there a new ftp or is something temporarily haywire at Stanford? Apparently there was some kind of work being done on the server. It was unavailable this past weekend. I checked it today (Wed, 4/19) and it seems to be back on-line. - -- Phil _____________________________________________________________ Philip Gravel Lisle, Illinois pgravel at mcs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 14:10:03 +1000 From: SBUXTON at ccf.health.nsw.gov.au Subject: HELP - Bottling Problems Home Brew Problems I have been making home-brew for many years without being a real enthusiast. It saves money and provides a beer that is not as sweet as the commercial product in this country. I wonder if anyone can explain two problems that occur from time to time? With some bottles the beer appears to lose all surface tension with almost uncontrollable frothing when a bottle is opened, though the internal pressure is not high. Also some bottles appear to gather a sort of brown skin which may appear as flakes on pouring and especially on cleaning afterwards. Both these problems are only occasional. The raw material these days is a commercial tin of wort that only needs water and sugar added, and I use no chemicals to clean bottles - only a brush. Any explanations appreciated. **************************************************************** Simon Buxton, Phone :02-391-9738; NSW Health Dept, 73 Miller St, North Sydney, NSW 2059, Australia E-mail :sbuxton at ccf.health.gov.nsw.au; Compuserve :100352,1612 ***************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:13:00 UTC From: t.olsen at genie.geis.com Subject: Beer Engine repair , Recently a friend has come into possession of some old English beer engines. They are missing the sprinkler heads. Does anyone know of any place that refurbishes or sells parts for them? TIA email is fine Tim Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 07:11:33 -0600 From: mark evans<evanms at lcac1.loras.edu> Subject: Re: Beer Talk Just would like to say many thinks to Jim Larsen for his hilarious "Beer Talk" parody. It was one of only a few posts that I read in their entirety. It is refreshing to laugh at ourselves once in a while. Perhaps if we did more, therre would be less negativity... everywhere. Brewfully, Mark Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1711, 04/21/95