HOMEBREW Digest #1714 Tue 25 April 1995

Digest #1713 Digest #1715

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Broken Digests, Gotts, & E-mail (Christopher P. Weirup)
  Eternal life (EKTSR)
  Saison Recipe (mark evans)
  sacharin in Dave Line's recipes (glenn_wikle)
  Sam Adams Mittlefreuh for Dry Hops ("NAME SEAN O'KEEFE, IFAS FOOD SCIENCE")
  Robots/oops/Spencer's Plastic Tubing Woes (Pat) Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
  Re: Hop Aroma (Bill Toothaker)
  Mash Tun (Bill Toothaker)
  Who's Who Update and 2nd call for input (David Draper)
  RE: That "homebrew" taste/PBS (MClarke950)
  Archives to the 'PBS of Homebrewing thread' (Pat) Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
  Carboys blowing/Retrieving archive files ("Philip Gravel")
  .z file program, Bitter orange (PatrickM50)
  Re: Sam Adams vs. Coors Cutter ("Lee C. Bussy")
  hops, glass color (HOMEBRE973)
  Sierra Nevada Pale Ale (follow-up) ("Jim Fitzgerald")
  Gelatin Blues (Christopher P. Weirup)
  re: HELP - Bottling Problems (Pat) Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com>
  Wheeler, lemon-grass Wits, boiling gelatine (Andy Walsh)
  Oregon IPA (gravels)
  Wheat (malt) (Matt_K)
  S/N ratio  at  65dB ("Paul Stokely")
  Drops from the HBD Mailing List ("Dave Ebert")
  Grape Nuts (daniel eugene gates)
  RE:  The carboy that almost blew (Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna)
  1995 MAZER CUP (spencer)
  Archives (WillisCPC)
  Bitterness Errors (Norman Pyle)
  Re: Graham Wheeler (Phil Hitchman)

****************************************************************** * POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail, * I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list * that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox * is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced * mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days. * * If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only * sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get * more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list. ****************************************************************** ################################################################# # # YET ANOTHER NEW FEDERAL REGULATION: if you are UNSUBSCRIBING from the # digest, please make sure you send your request to the same service # provider that you sent your subscription request!!! I am now receiving # many unsubscribe requests that do not match any address on my mailing # list, and effective immediately I will be silently deleting such # requests. # ################################################################# Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu ARCHIVES: An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at ftp.stanford.edu. Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full e-mail address as the password, look under the directory /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory. AFS users can find it under /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer. If you do not have ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail service at gatekeeper.dec.com. For information about this service, send an e-mail message to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com with the word "help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Apr 95 19:34:34 EST From: ibishop at tanus.oz.au (Ian Bishop) Subject: HIGH TEMP FERMENT A big hello to all on the list, as this relative novice from Australia makes his first tentative posting. I have gained much valuable information so far from my reading, but suppose I should make myself visible. My Question : I am in a location where the average maximum temperature tends to be 25 degrees celcius (Up to about 44 in summer) or higher on a year-round basis. Lows can range from 0 to 30 depending on the time of year. I am in a situation where continual temperature control is not economically viable. Therefore I usually end up fermenting at quite high temperatures and live with some of the more unusual flavors. Would I gain any benefit from obtaining liquid yeast cultures? Are there any which have a particularly high heat tolerance or which enhance the flavors created at these temperatures? Hope someone can help me :-) - -------------------------------------------------------------- >From the desk of Ian Bishop - The Mad Muso of Mount Isa, Aust. Please Direct All Flames to \DEV\NUL or 0:0/0 - Thanks!! All Real Replies to IBISHOP at TANUS.OZ.AU or 3:640/706 - -------------------------------------------------------------- - --- * RM 1.3 A1824 * "At last, the Eludium Q36 explosive space modulator...!" Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 08:17:48 -0400 From: cerevis at panix.com (Christopher P. Weirup) Subject: Broken Digests, Gotts, & E-mail I don't want to waste too much bandwidth about this, but I have not received the HBD in quite some time now. I know others have had the same problem, maybe they could help me. Have I been unsubscribed? If anyone could enlighten me as to fixing the problem, please let me know (send it by e-mail for obvious reasons). In case there are still more people who want the Gott digest, please let me know right away, because I'm moving from the Big Apple (no more panix!, sniff) to the Windy City and will be away from e-mail more often than not. Hopefully soon the darn thing will be somewhere that it can just be downloaded. Thanx! One last thing, if Greg O'Brien is reading this, please e-mail me your e-mail address. The one I have keeps getting returned to me. (Sorry to everyone else about that). Chris Weirup cerevis at panix.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 08:53:11 -0400 From: EKTSR at aol.com Subject: Eternal life In HBD #1708, Lee Bussy writes: "... Not everyone dies you know ;)." Lee !! All the rest of us are DYING to know--what's the secret of eternal life?? (;-) Stan White ektsr at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 08:07:47 -0600 From: mark evans<evanms at lcac1.loras.edu> Subject: Saison Recipe I'm doing a Saison this week. I have a fairly good book recipe, but I wouldn't mind cross-referencing that one with someone else's own experience/recipe. I managed to score some candi sugar when I was in Seattle recently so authenticity is possible. (although I have never actually tasted one of these animals before... they just sound good!!) I have a Wit yeast from Headstart that will be my summer workhorse for the Belgian ales I brew this summer. (Heard good things about the Wit's ability to ferment high gravity brews.) Can't wait! So private e-me your saison experients! Brewfully... Mark P.S. The ales in Seattle are phenomenal! I especially enjoyed McTarnahan's Scottish ale (from Portland?). Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 95 11:46:43 EDT From: glenn_wikle at Warren.MENTORG.COM Subject: sacharin in Dave Line's recipes > Randy Erickson <74763.2312 at compuserve.com> writes: > Finally, how many little packets of the "pink stuff" equals one > sacharin tablet? I haven't seen those things in years. What about > the "blue stuff"? Dextrine powder? I think one sacharin tablet is "equivalent" to one teaspoon of sugar. All the other artificial sweeteners tell you how many teaspoons of sugar they are equivalent to. I made one of Dave Line's recipes recently that called for around 4 sacharin tablets. The beer came out great, but I don't know what effect the sacharin had on the flavor. I have to put 1.5 tsp of sugar into a cappucino to make it tolerable. I just don't see how 4 tsp equivalent of sweetener can make a discernible difference in 5 gallons of beer. Can anyone explain this? Does anyone have a more natural alternative to artificial sweeteners that would put 4 tsp worth of non-fermentable sweetness into your beer without significantly effecting the flavor profile in any other way? Do commercial breweries really use artificial sweeteners? If beer were required to adhere to US FDA laws for food labeling, we might know what nasty food additives they are using. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 11:57:39 -0500 (EST) From: "NAME SEAN O'KEEFE, IFAS FOOD SCIENCE" <SFO at gnv.ifas.ufl.edu> Subject: Sam Adams Mittlefreuh for Dry Hops Has anyone used the $12.00 Sam Adams hops to dry hop their beer? I tried them on 2 batches and found a wierd flavor that I describe as earthy or dirty in the beer. It's drinkable but hasn't decreased in intensity after 2 months at 5C (in the bottles). Another batch I made last week with dry hoping had the same earthy flavor but a second with hops added at mash out did not. Can anybody share their experience with SA hops with us? Actually, this would be a great way to run an International experiment since we would probably get almost exactly the same hops from BBC. Oops, that last comment ruined my DWR. Did I do OK? Did I? Did I? I hate to be forced to ask questions and have my writing worthyness graded. C- OUTTA HERE YA BUM. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 15:56:55 +0000 From: "Patrick G. (Pat) Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: Robots/oops/Spencer's Plastic Tubing Woes In HOMEBREW Digest #1712... >From: flemingk at usa.net (Kirk R Fleming) >Subject: HBD Subscriber Drop Robot According to the message attached to any resubscribe request, part of the mailing list was accidentally lost. Is your tongue in your cheek, or what, Kirk??? - ---------- >Harold LaRoux responds to my partially erroneous keg-transfer >post... >You should connect to the "OUTLET" of your corny instead of the inlet. This >will fill the keg from the bottom up to cut down on any foaming/aeration >caused by dropping the beer from the top of the corny keg. Also (maybe more >importantly), this will save you from getting a face full of beer when you >try to vent from the outlet side. Of course you're correct; and this is exactly how I normally proceed. I was distracted while preparing that post and neglected to proofread it. My apologies to any who may have run out and tried it as posted; and promise to be more careful in the future. (But even as we 'speak', my web browser works steadily in the background...;-) - ----------- >Spencer Thomas comments about flavors leached from his plastic >tubing... I had a similar concern, and blamed it on my tubing. That is, until one day when a more savvy brewer pointed out that the 'plastic' taste I was getting was most likely due to chlorophenols. I narrowed the source down to my no-rinse bleach sanitation methods, and haven't had a recurrence since switching to iodophur. This isn't to suggest that you can't leach flavors from your tubing; just a nother datapoint! - --------- Patrick G. (Pat) Babcock * "Let a good beer be the exclamation point at the pbabcock at oeonline.com * end of your day as every sentence requires usfmchql at ibmmail.com * proper punctuation." - PGB Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 17:43:59 -0400 From: beerman at amberwaves.mv.com (Bill Toothaker) Subject: Re: Hop Aroma Scott Bukofsky wrote: > I've brewed a great number of extract batches recently, but for the life >of me I cannot get a good hop aroma in my finished product. I have tried >late additions and dry-hopping, but nothing seems to work. In my most >recent batch, I used 3 oz of EKG late in the boil (1 oz each at 30, 15 and 5 >minutes from the end), and dry-hopped with another oz of EKG for a week. >The result: little hop aroma!! > Does anyone have any ideas on the causes of this problem? I am >careful to avoid aeration, I fill my bottles most of the way up to reduce >headspace, etc. Still I am aroma-impaired. Scott: The 30 min and 15 min boil are too long for aroma. Try 2 or more oz last 2-5 mins of the boil any more than that and the volatile aroma oils are driven off. -or- For hop aroma try a "Hop Back". This can be a funnel with screen holding 2-4 oz of whole hop cones. Syphon hot wort slowly over cones 'sparging' those aromas out. The problem with the above scenarios is that during even a so-so fermentation the volatile aromas are driven off with the escaping co2 gas. (ever notice the awesome hop aroma coming from your fermenter??) Solution: 1) Wait to dry hop until fermentation is complete. rack off a 3rd time to remove dormant yeast and dry hop for another week wioth 2-3 oz. Ph of beer, alcohol level, and flavoring hop oils should keep any infections from occurring, & the aromas will stay in your beer. 2) Sanitize gallon mayonnaise jar.( clean extremely well or oils will reside decreasing head retention) boil 1/2 gallon water, cooling to 130 derees or so. add to jar add 4oz loose hop cones, cover tightly for 2-3 weeks. Ta-da; hop aroma tea. Add to fermented beer with priming sugar. Brew on!! Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 17:44:23 -0400 From: beerman at amberwaves.mv.com (Bill Toothaker) Subject: Mash Tun I am responding to a mash tun question where they where discussing 10 gallon Gott coolers. 10 Gallon Gott coolers work fine. and Ive never had a grain bed be too thick as to stop the mash run-off. Sparge slowly and you won't collpse the grain bed. PS I use the listermann system for ease of use and cleaning. Inexpensive too. ************************************************************ * Bill the Beerman * for homebrew catalog: * * Amber Waves Homebrew * beerman at amberwaves.mv.co * * & Dart Supplies * Trivia Question of the week * * 5 Central Ave. * Name 3 beer brands that * * Rochester, NH 03867 * Have a bull on their label * * (603)335-4707 * HOPPY BREWING!! * ************************************************************ Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 10:19:16 +1000 (EST) From: David Draper <ddraper at laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au> Subject: Who's Who Update and 2nd call for input Dear Friends, last week I asked for input on the possibility of putting together a list of some of the best and brightest HBD contributors for the use of those newer to the digest and to brewing. I am repeating the call for input now for two reasons. First, as has been mentioned in several posts, many people (myself included) were taken off the subscription list for some reason and so many probably missed the issue in which my first Who's Who post appeared. Second, I have had some responses that will allow me to sharpen the focus of the kind of input I need before deciding whether to proceed. To recap: I have in mind putting together a text file that will reside on the stanford archive and on various Brew-related web pages that would consist of 3- to 4-line thumbnail bios of the HBD posters who are most knowledgeable, helpful, etc. The idea is NOT that I am some kind of judge of this, but that this kind of info would be helpful to those new to the digest and to brewing, as well as of interest to those who have been around longer who are just plain interested. So far I have a list of about 70 HBDers that I have compiled from simply reading the digest--nothing automated here--for the past few years. The final file would be too long to post here, so the archives and web sites are the only option. I have had 12 respondents so far--I'd expected more, actually--and the opinion of these folks is mixed. 7 say it's a good idea, but 3 say it is not, that it would invite BW wastage via bickering about who should or should not be on the list. The other three expressed qualified support, saying that in principle it is a good idea but that in practice it may not be possible without some people getting offended. One very important point raised by these respondents is that a great deal of high-quality HBD interaction goes on by private email rather than in public posts. I reckon that this is particularly true for questions from only moderately- experienced brewers--not total newcomers, but those whose questions have been covered from time to time in the digest. Now, as I said in the first post on this, I absolutely do not want to start any kind of signal-to-noise-degrading exchange by proposing this. But I would like to get some more opinions before making the final decision on whether to proceed. Right now, despite the majority of opinion in favor, I think the points raised about private email contributions might be enough to disqualify the idea, although the initial motivation was to provide info about those things that appear in the digest publically, for all to see. Nevertheless, I again call for more input, *by private email only please*, on whether you think this is worth pursuing and why. Thanks again for the help. Cheers, Dave in Sydney - -- "I can't be bought for a mere $3.50." ---Jeff Renner ****************************************************************************** David S. Draper, School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, NSW 2109 Sydney, Australia. email: david.draper at mq.edu.au fax: +61-2-850-8428 ....I'm not from here, I just live here.... Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:33:25 -0400 From: MClarke950 at aol.com Subject: RE: That "homebrew" taste/PBS Jeff, I would try switching to glass carboys. Your post didn't say how long it sat in the plastic primary, but I would guess too long. Plastic can develope scratches that are hard to sanitize. From what I've read about plastic primaries, they are okay to use, but rack into a glass secondary as soon as the fermentation slows. Good Luck. PatrickM50 at aol.com flames CGEDEN: Patrick lower the flame thrower! CGEDEN was referring to the "Jack-free" homebrewing digest that is by invitation-only. Jay Hersh made a claim that it was the 'PBS' of homebrewing. Boy, people have itchy trigger fingers here, don't they ;^) CGEDEN was trying to find out if *THEY* had an archive, not the HBD. Mike MClarke950 at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 23:37:22 +0000 From: "Patrick G. (Pat) Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: Archives to the 'PBS of Homebrewing thread' >Robert Anderson comments on PatrickM50 at AOL.COM's reply to CGEDEN at >regarding the existence of archives to the PBS of homebrewing... Farbeit from me to try to direct a conversation on the Digest, but wasn't CGEDEN at referring to Jay Hirsch's supposed PBS (Scmidling Free) forum when he asked this question? Not that the information being forwarded isn't valuable; but I think we jumped a track... Patrick G. (Pat) Babcock * "Let a good beer be the exclamation point at the pbabcock at oeonline.com * end of your day as every sentence requires usfmchql at ibmmail.com * proper punctuation." - PGB Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 23:32:56 -0500 (CDT) From: "Philip Gravel" <pgravel at mcs.com> Subject: Carboys blowing/Retrieving archive files ===> Daryl Kalenchuk mentions the carboy that almost blew: > Two days ago I transferred a batch from my primary to secondary, a >glass carboy. Six hours later I returned to find that my air lock had >blown apart and blow off was now coming out of the remaining piece. > There was nothing unusual about the batch before this incident. >It is a very basic wheat extract (6 lbs) using Wyeast white(what ever). A >earlier posting in HBD mentioned bizarre behavior with this yeast, and >it's my first time using it, is it something with the yeast or have do I >have my first contaminated batch? I think you had a vigorous fermentation. That is the opposite of what others have complained about when using Whitbread yeast. My experience has been satisfactory with this yeast. You might want to think about using a blowoff tube. ===> Robert Anderson talks about the archives and how to read them: >That longish bit of text doesn't point that the archives are saved as .z >files. If you issue the get command and leave the .Z off of the filename, the server will automatically decompress the file before it sends it you. This is explained in the README file in the archives. - -- Phil _____________________________________________________________ Philip Gravel Lisle, Illinois pgravel at mcs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 01:43:04 -0400 From: PatrickM50 at aol.com Subject: .z file program, Bitter orange Robert Anderson laments: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "That longish bit of text doesn't point that the archives are saved as .z files. ... My local server had only one utility suitable for expanding .z files - it's a zip file called COMP430D.zip and doesn't work in windows, only ms-dos, and has lousy documentation." <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Well, since I mistakedly (as many of you hastened to privately point out ;-) referred CGEDEN to that "longish bit of text" in the first place, I will attempt to redeem myself and win back some DWR points (Nice one, Kirk!) by telling Robert and other interested HBDers that he/you can find a freeware, Windows-friendly unzipping utility for .z files called "gzip.exe" at "prep.ai.mit.edu" in directory /pub/gnu. The self-extracting file to ftp is actually called "gzip-1.2.4.msdos.exe" but it will rename itself "gzip-1.exe" when you download it. Follow the instructions in the "readme.dos" file to create the file "gunzip.exe". Then create a Windows Program Manager "Properties" association to link .z files to gunzip. Actually easier than it looks here, but let me know if you have problems. On another note entirely, I've noticed several posts here re: where to find small quantities of Bitter Orange peel for authentic Wit recipes. I dropped into the Beverage People homebrew shop in Santa Rosa, CA today and they just got in 1oz. packs in the last few days for $.95/pack. Have not tried it myself and I have no monetary association other than as a satisfied customer. Call Byron at 1-800-544-1867 if you're interested. Pat Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 08:14:05 +0000 From: "Lee C. Bussy" <leeb at southwind.net> Subject: Re: Sam Adams vs. Coors Cutter Mark Ohlstrom (mohlstr at cati.csufresno.edu) is concerned about Jim Koch in 1712: I can't think of a single reason why I'd want to help Jim Koch but nevertheless that's just me and my opinion. I think its rather refreshing and I'd love to see Jim try to sue Coors. Maybe this will remind him that he is a MICRO brewer. - -- -Lee Bussy | The 4 Basic Foodgroups.... | leeb at southwind.net | Salt, Fat, Beer & Women! | Wichita, Kansas | http://www.southwind.net/~leeb | Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 12:34:31 -0400 From: HOMEBRE973 at aol.com Subject: hops, glass color My cascade hops are growing at about a foot/day in N.C. and are already over 10 feet long and the Japanese Beetles haven't emerged yet! "Alan R. Burdette" <aburdett at indiana.edu> writes: > The recent talk about beer bottle glass has raised a question in my mind: > Is there any meaningful difference between the light protection > offered by a green vs. a brown glass bottle? Zymurgy (Spring 1994) quoting from the New Brewer 8(2) 1991 stated that brown glass blocked 96 % of the UV, green glass blocked 20% and clear glass blocked 10%. Andy Kligerman homebre973 at aol.com Hillsborough, NC Andy Kligerman Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 11:17:54 +0000 From: "Jim Fitzgerald" <jimfitz at netcom.com> Subject: Sierra Nevada Pale Ale (follow-up) This is a summary of the response that I have gotten from my SNPA post that appeared in HBD #1702. *** Hops: They no longer use a hop-back in the brewery for SNPA. There seems to be a time when they did, which may explain why a lot of people have written articles about hop-backs for SNPA in the past, but they no longer do. They finish the boil with cascade and then use a hop extractor of some sort which may be similar to the use of a hop-back. Their selection of hops seems to be a tough one, especially for their aroma hops that they use. They only use whole cone hops and the selection is made on the aromatic oil content and not AAU. I got a couple of responses that had said this and I'm not really sure how a home brewer can really select hops this way from a home brew store...but if anyone has any idea I sure would be interested in knowing. I really haven't figured out if they dry hop SNPA at the brewery or not. What I do know is that it takes a dry hop in my secondary of about 3/4 to 1 oz per 5 gallons two weeks or so before kegging to get that wonderful cascade aroma in my pale ale. I have also had other people respond to the old post stating the same thing. This could be due to the fact that us home brewers can't really get the freshest hops available (e.g. the aromatic oil content has been aged out of them) and simply finishing with older hops will not do...hence the dry hop is needed also. *** Yeast: Well all of the responses here say GO FOR IT! I guess only time will tell on this one. *** Water: Well, I really don't know the anwser to this. There have been a couple of posts stating that when the brewery moved they had a hard time getting started because the water was different. I would have to guess that any brewery that uses "city" water to brew with must do something to insure that the water content was always the same, but I'm not even sure if they use "city" water or not. I use well water to brew with from the Santa Cruz mountians and besides treating the water with a little lactic acid (C3H6O3) I don't have to do much else...but water from other wells very close by contain many things that noone would want to include in their beers (sulphur, metals, etc.)...I guess I concider myself lucky on this one. If anyone has any information on the water that SNPA uses in their beers it would be interesting to know about. *** Malt: There seems to be a problem with the quality of specialty malts that are availible to the home brewer. In the case of SNPA this malt is crystal malt. It seems like a lot of folks mix the lighter and darker crystal to get some of the medium colored crystals...the caramel flavor that is present in SNPA comes from the use of this type of malt with the presence of crystalized sugars within the kernel. If these are milled and then mixed the results could be very unpredictable. The bottom line here is know how your supply store treats it's crystal malts before they are bagged and sold...it can make a big difference in consistency. *** Color: Eckhardt's book lists the color here at 6 SRM, the recipe that I had listed should come out around 8.5 SRM probably due to the darker 60L crystal that I use to ensure a nice crystal flavor. Well, that's it from the responses that I have for now. I would like to here from anyone that has anything more to contribute on SNPA. I think that I would like to try this for Sierra Nevada Pale Bock also. I've have made this wonderful maibock for the first time this year and am currently drinking now (it is spring time, right?). I have done a lot of homework on this one also that I would like to share with all of you, so I'll try and get something together in the next day or so. If anyone has any input on SNPB I would love to here from them...if not, maybe I can spark some interest with my next post. Cheers! Jim - ------------------------- Jim Fitzgerald Los Gatos, CA jimfitz at netcom.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 16:15:21 -0400 From: cerevis at panix.com (Christopher P. Weirup) Subject: Gelatin Blues There have been many recent posts about using gelatin to help with clearing beer. Well, I tried it on my latest batch, an IPA, and I had some problems with it. The beer was dry hopped with hop pellets, which is why I wanted to clear the beer and then have the stuff sit on the bottom, held by the gelatin. What I did was heat about a pint of bottled water to about 120 deg F, then dissovled a little over half of a packet of Knox gelatin to the water. This mixture was then added it to my beer about 5 days before bottling. While the beer seemed somewhat clear (although not as much as I had expected), but there were many large pieces of gloop (I don't know what to call it) floating in the beer. While I was able to keep most of it out of my bottles, I'm sure that there is some sitting in my bottles. Can anyone help with what I did wrong? Is that gloop bad for my beer? Did I destroy the gelatin? While I'm trying not to worry, it's taking a lot more beer to do so (which is not bad, I guess). Anybody with any info. please e-mail me, since I'm still not getting the HBD. TIA! Chris Weirup cerevis at panix.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 20:20:14 +0000 From: "Patrick G. (Pat) Babcock" <pbabcock at oeonline.com> Subject: re: HELP - Bottling Problems In HBD #1711... >Simon Buxton bemoans his surging bottled beer with weird flaky >floaters... Well, my friend, your problems are multiple. The fact that they are only ocassional, as noted in your post, is remarkable. First, whether your kit recomends it or not, I think everyone here posting to or reading the HBD would agree that boiling of the wort is desirable to kill any nasties in the water or your ingredients. Secondly, cleaning your bottles with only a brush does nothing to kill the nasties that may be residing there. If chemical sanitizers offend, I would recommend (strongly) that you at least heat sanitize your bottles prior to bottling. Caps, too. Some will tell you that they don't boil their caps, but, for the most part, they're tempting fate. First, most of us buy our caps from the same source that we buy the remainder of our supplies - the brew shop. In most shops, little is done to protect bulk caps from airborne dust and the bacteria, yeasts and mold hitchhiking along with them. Note most homebrew authors' warnings about milling grain in the same room you brew in. Most HB shops mill grain, too. Secondly, the boiling of the caps softens and prepares the seal material for use - though this probably isn't as critical as the first (my caps are usually quite cold by the time I get to that last case, but they still seal OK). HIH! 'Drink all you want - I'll brew more!' Patrick G. (Pat) Babcock * "Let a good beer be the exclamation point pbabcock at oeonline.com * at the end of your day as every sentence usfmchql at ibmmail.com * requires proper punctuation." - PGB Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 12:49:47 EDT From: awalsh at pop03.ca.us.ibm.net (Andy Walsh) Subject: Wheeler, lemon-grass Wits, boiling gelatine Hello. Whoops, another correction to a post of mine. I stated in my Wheeler review that his Marston's Pedigree recipe did not contain any glucose, which was contrary to his introduction. Well I was wrong. He calls for 800g "maltose syrup" which I assumed was liquid malt syrup. He actually states elsewhere that "maltose syrup" is a maize derived sugar (ie. corn sugar, glucose, dextrose etc.). This is a particularly confusing and strange notation IMHO. ************** On lemon-grass Wits. This occurred to me a couple of years ago. The logical extension of this is, if you're making a beer with coriander and lemon-grass, why not go the whole hog and make a Thai curry beer by adding ginger (or more properly, Galangal root for authenticity) and chilli? I made about 5 batches of this beer ("Thai Curry Wit"), and most liked it, but these days I stick to more normal Wits just with coriander and orange peel. But using lemon-grass does work anyway. I have also tried other peels (citric peels like grapefruit and lemon) but find the citric character detracts from the beer. ************* On boiling gelatine. I tried to make up some cultures for yeast slants on the w/e. As Dave Draper (and others) have recommended gelatine as an easily available replacement for agar in this process, I gave it a go. The first attempt was a failure. I used 8 teaspoons of gelatine in 1 litre wort. I boiled it (thinking there would be no problems in "denaturing") for 15 mins, added to the testtubes, which were then immersed in hot water and boiled for another 20 mins. The mixture would just not set. Attempt #2 saw 8 teaspoons go into 500ml. This is more than twice the amount recommended by the manufacturer (Davis). This time I did not boil it, but added the gelatine and heated it until it dissolved. I took it off the heat, added to the tt's, which were placed in boiling water for 20 mins, as before. However, this time I also made a couple of controls, which were not sterilised. Result? The unboiled tubes solidified without problems at room temperature, the sterilised ones would not solidify unless put in the fridge. Conclusions? Do not boil gelatine. I am no chemist, so maybe the proteins are already "denatured" and can not be further degraded, but I am convinced that boiling the stuff does something to stuff up its setting properties. How on earth can others use gelatine for yeast slants? or, Help Dave, what am I doing wrong? Maybe I bought a bad pack? ;>) In the meantime, I'm off to buy some agar. ***************************** //// Andy Walsh from Sydney //// awalsh at ibm.net //// phone 61 2 369 5711 ***************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 08:28:54 EST From: gravels at TRISMTP.npt.nuwc.navy.mil Subject: Oregon IPA Hi All, I just recently went to a local pub that boasts of 33 brews on tap and tried an Oregon IPA. I was great! Of course I had to sample it again to make sure that it was still as good as the first time. ;^) Well, to make a long story short I liked it a lot. Does anyone have a recipe they could send me? I'm an extract brewer so that would be preferable but I will take all-grain recipes and do the experimentation until I get it right! :^) On another note I'm looking for a good brew pot and I haven't been able to find the right one. I'm looking for a 7 - 8 gal oblong stainless or ceramic coated steel pot so that I can do a full boil and cover two burners on my stove. I live in Newport Rhode Island and a regional source would be nice but mail order is okay. Thanks. Steve Gravel gravels at TRISMTP.npt.nuwc.navy.mil Etectronic Technician Naval Undersea Warfare Center (401) 841-1745 Newport, Rhode Island "Homebrew, it's not just a hobby it's an adventure!" Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 08:58:49 edt From: Matt_K at ceo.sts-systems.ca Subject: Wheat (malt) Message: As some fo you may rember, I asked a question a few weeks ago re. a headless Oatmeal stout. First of all I'd like to thank everyone who responded to my question. Since then, in an offline discussion, an interesting point has come up and I wonder if someone could shed some light on this. Several people subbested adding a pound or more of wheat to the mash to help with head retention. There seems to be no consensus however whether one should use wheat malt or unmalted wheat. Personally I have always added about .25lb of flaked wheat. So, what is the difference on head retention (if any) between malted an unmalted wheat? Many TIA Matt, in Montreal Suds.... Gotta love' em! - Kenny King - Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:12:52 EDT From: "Paul Stokely" <PSTOKELY at ea.umd.edu> Subject: S/N ratio at 65dB Dan writes in response to pH technique: > Proper practice for pH paper is to leave it in the solution until the > color stops changing. For a weakly buffered solution (such as wort) > this may take a few seconds. However, you need to take into account > the color change caused by the color of your beer. For darker beers > this can be a problem. That's the limitation of pH papers. FWIW, the instructions that come with the Whatman narrow range pH papers say to dip the paper in the liquid and shake off the excess and wait 5 to 10 seconds. They also advise "reading" the wet paper in bright light against a white background. About Sam Adams and Boston Brewing: > Jim Koch and the BBC has been wonderful to both the microbrewing > and homebrewing community. We should join together and voice > our support for the BBC. That's almost as funny as the BeerTalk post last week. Keep up the humor! Paul S. in College Park, Maryland Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 06:43:57 MST-0700 From: "Dave Ebert" <DNE at Data.HSC.Colorado.edu> Subject: Drops from the HBD Mailing List I for one am totally opposed to the AI Robot deciding who can stay subscribed to the HBD. I have enjoyed the HBD over the past several months and have picked up many good ideas along the way. I have also had to skip over countless arguments that were useless. But, based on what I'm reading those that contribute senseless messages can remain on the mailing but those that are trying to learn from the more experienced brewers are cut off the list. I understand the monumental task in keeping the maillist functional but I'm not in agreement with this method of weeding out. Sure, bounced back mail should be number one priority in removing from the mailer. Abusers of the bandwidth should be another. Why not put some of the AI time into auto mailing those inactive accounts to see if they are still interested in receiving the digest. If you get no reply or the request bounces, then remove them from the list. The "subjective" approach of calculating the S/N is an unfair way to determine who is deemed "worthy" of receiving this digest. I have posted a few messages asking questions or making minor comments about a few topics and I have not been dropped from the list (yet). I may go the next quarter without a single post and according to your formula, I will be dropped. What do others think? Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 08:11:13 -0600 (MDT) From: daniel eugene gates <gatesd at unm.edu> Subject: Grape Nuts Quick question on using Grape Nuts for a brew. Will the salt in the cereal affect the brew? I have fairly hard water and this is my one concern. Also, has anyone used alternative grains such as Tritical, and some of the old world type grains? Has anyone used Horehound as a bittering in beer? (I read that some European beers had when they didn't have the hops) TIA, Dan Gates gatesd at unm.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 10:10:04 EST From: Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna at relay.com Subject: RE: The carboy that almost blew In HBD 1712, Daryl Kalenchuk notes: >Two days ago I transferred a batch from my primary to secondary, a >glass carboy. Six hours later I returned to find that my air lock had >blown apart and blow off was now coming out of the remaining piece. > There was nothing unusual about the batch before this incident. >It is a very basic wheat extract (6 lbs) using Wyeast white(what ever). A >earlier posting in HBD mentioned bizarre behavior with this yeast, and >it's my first time using it, is it something with the yeast or have do I >have my first contaminated batch? >If anyone has an explanation please let me know. I have used the Wyeast 3068 (Weihenstephan wheat) yeast on two occasions to make a weizenbier (extract recipe). In both instances, the yeast produced a *VERY* active ferment (both primary and secondary) quite similar to what you describe. These are the only two beers I have had to use a blowoff tube with, and I had to use one for both primary and secondary fermentation (i use a 6gal. plastic primary fermenter and 5 gal glass carboy secondary). The first batch fermented at 76 deg F (well above recommended temps - didn't have a room thermometer yet) and the second at 68-69 deg F, which is within the recommended temps. I concluded that 3068 is just a very active fermenter. If you are talking about another Wyeast, my guess is it must be related to the 3068. By the way, the first beer turned out great; the second is still in secondary. IMHO, this is a very good yeast. Tim Fields Timf at relay.com Relay Technology, Inc., SQL/DS Division Vienna, VA, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 10:39:51 EDT From: spencer at med.umich.edu Subject: 1995 MAZER CUP The Mazer Cup announcement is also available on "the web" at http://guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu/Beer/AABG/Mazer_Cup.html Or start at my beer page: http://guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu/Beer/, and follow the link to "Beer-related Pages" / "competitions". =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:15:43 -0400 From: WillisCPC at aol.com Subject: Archives Thanks to everyone who responed to my question regarding reading the archives. Gregg Willis WillisCPC at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 8:46:21 MDT From: Norman Pyle <npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM> Subject: Bitterness Errors Ian Normington wrote, of Andy Walshes negative comments of Graham Wheeler: >Andy said: "You will still make very bitter beer with his given >numbers" > >I certainly have not found them overly bitter. In fact, having >recently done a side by side test with his version of "Old Speckled >Hen" and a sample of the real stuff, I think he was spot on. May be >I've just been lucky and have used hops with lower % alpha acids. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I don't want to get into the Wheeler debate as I haven't read his books, but I'd like to comment on Ian's last statement. All the talk of IBU formulae, utilization tables, etc. etc. (I get into these debates on occasion) has me thinking of ALL the possible errors. Off the top of my head, I can think of the following errors in calculating hop bitterness: 1) AA% is a sample of a bale, not necessarily the small sample bag you hold in your hand, 2) AA% changes with time, temperature, oxygen, etc. You don't know how much it has changed, 3) Possible error by the person writing the AA% number on the bag. I've actually seen one bag where one number was crossed out and another added, 4) Error in weighing the hops, as most homebrewers use some crude scale, 5) Error in weighing the hops, as moisture content is unknown. It could easily gain or lose moisture at various packaging/processing steps, 6) Error in boil time, especially when you consider whirlpool at knockoff, chill times, method of chilling, etc., 7) Errors in the formulae, i.e. how linear is bitterness taken from the hops at different concentrations?, 8) Errors in the utilization tables, 9) Errors in utilization based on restricted flow (i.e. hop bags, poor boil, etc.), 10) Errors in adjustment for altitude, yeast, and all the other factors brought up by Garetz. I'm sure there are others. Now I suspect that numbers 1, 2, 4, and 6 are biggies, but the others aren't inconsiderable by any means. The point is there is a lot to think about. We're probably pretty lucky if we can get within 25% of our desired bitterness. I strive for precision, i.e. repeatability, and then adjust for accuracy. I think this is the best that can be hoped for in the typical homebrewery environment. Cheers, Norm Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 16:27:29 BST From: phitchma at mpc-uk.com (Phil Hitchman) Subject: Re: Graham Wheeler Hi, I would like to add my comments to Ian Normington's re. Andy Walsh's comments on Graham Wheelers books. > I'm posting this in support of his books. While his 'technical' > information may be weak, I have found his recipes very good and have > been delighted on many occasions with my brew. I too have had excellent results using these books. > > Andy said: "You will still make very bitter beer with his given > numbers" > > I certainly have not found them overly bitter. In fact, having... The hop levels used in Graham's books are far lower than (for example) Dave Line's. You will, of course, get much different results depending on the type of hops you use (eg. dried, vaccuum packed, pellets etc..). The EBU rating is shown for all recipes and can easily be calculated useing the formulae at the front of the book and the data on the label of the hop packet. Hop levels in these recipies are only meant as a guide and are a matter of personal taste anyway. > Andy said: "So what do you find when you look up his recipe for > Marston's Pedigree? Yep, it's all malt." > > Well, this is not true for my copy of "Brew Your Own Real Ale At > Home". Included in the recipe is "800g Maltose syrup (18 %)" - > certainly not all malt be my reckoning. It also says in the book that the Maltose syrup can be substituted for glucose without any noticeable change in flavour. I can't support or dispute this as I've never managed to get hold of any Maltose syrup and so always use Glucose. > > Anyway, I would highly recommend "Brew Your Own Real Ale At Home" to > any home-brewer wanting to replicate British real ales. Use your own > methods and hopping rates if you like, but I've followed his methods > and rates, and have never been disappointed with the results. HERE HERE !! (Try the Crouch Vale - Willy Warmer, it's excellent !) Cheers, Phil Hitchman. Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1714, 04/25/95