HOMEBREW Digest #1715 Wed 26 April 1995

Digest #1714 Digest #1716

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Gelatin Redux (Pierre Jelenc)
  Cask preperation (Troy Downing)
  Archives (MURPHYJ)
  Late Hops (John DeCarlo              )
  co2/air mixtures ("Wallinger, W. A.")
  Rye and hop bitterness (Phil Miller)
  simplified RIMS (Kelly Jones)
  Siphon Aerators ("Manning Martin MP")
  sterile bottle caps ("John C. Schmitz")
  NA alternatives ("Harralson, Kirk")
  PhillChill Phittings (smtplink!guym)
  Lost newsletters (ramsey)
  Gelatine in slants (Fredrik Stahl)
  Mash Starch Conversion/GOTT Cooler for sale (VA/DC Area) (Art McGregor)
  Re: black dog hops ("J DUDLEY LEAPHART")
  Color Wheel? ("Joseph E. Santos")
  Kirk ("Dave Ebert")
  Heating of gelatin (I Gelman)
  low and no alcohol beers (" Robert Bloodworth                            ZFBTO    - MT0054")
  RE: dark grains again/beer talk (Jim Dipalma)
  This is a test (guyruth)
  I'm all wet!, .Z files (PatrickM50)
  Warm Ferments/SNPA hops/The 'Bot (Norman Pyle)
  .z vs .Z vs .gz (brewing chemist Mitch)
  Question about a Counter-flow Chiller, HBD Subscription (Willits)
  beer bottles (Mark Bunster)
  Enough already (CGEDEN)
  Hose Beer (Michael Froehlich)
  more on clear glass (KozukaShi)
  Robots, Bottles, Plastic, and Hops ("Dan Wilson")
  O2 barrier caps (ROSS)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 11:04:27 EDT From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu> Subject: Gelatin Redux In HBD #1713 Jack Schmidling is still puzzling over gelatin: > Talk about missing the point..... I thought I would learn something > useful from this thread and all I got was semantics. No, you did get the information but did not recognize it. Let's try again. > To most folks (and > one of many definitions in the dictionary) denature means to render > unfit for use. But not when you use it in the same breath as "protein" and "heat". Just as "mash" does not mean the same thing when you talk about beer, potatoes, or Casanova. > I have never heard the term used in connection with > gelatine Hey, so you learn something everyday! > but have read many times that it should not be boiled. I have Eek! Of all people, you, the Great Debunker, should know that what you read ain't necessarily so. > also always heard that it should always be disolved in cold water. I do What you read, quite possibly in garbled prose, is that gelatin should be preswollen in cold water; that's because if it is dumped into boiling water it will clump into a disgusting mess. It does not dissolve appreciably in cold water in a reasonable length of time. It does swell, and that makes the subsequent heating much easier, because heat transfer is much more even. No clumps and no burning mess at the bottom of the pan. > this and then raise to 170F to pasteurize it. Or boil it. Boiling it in water will not change it in any way. Note for cooks: Gelatin is a protein, and as such is subject to cleavage by various agents commonly found in a kitchen. Paramount among those are meat tenderizers and certain fruits (pineapples and papayas especially), which contain proteolytic enzymes, and acids (vinegar and lemon juice, for instance). Heating, or boiling, gelatin with acids _will_ degrade it (not denature, it's already denatured) by cleavage of the bonds between certain amino-acids. Such gelatin boiled in acid is kaput. Gelatin boiled in water is just as it ever was, since it was made in the first place by boiling for many hours. > Now, may I conclude from > the above that boiling does not "render unfit for use" as I intend to Yes. > use it or simply that it will not be "denatured", whatever that means? Gelatin _is_ denatured, by definition. It stays that way. Denatured is good. If one were to renature it by some means, it would be collagen, i.e. gristle or tendons. I don't want tendons in my beer! And once again, my experience with boiled gelatin in ales has always been positive. Never have I got a beer that failed to clear to crystal brightness. The down side of gelatin is that it tends to coat the bottles with a dull film. The beer is bright but the bottle gets cloudy. Bleach removes that film efficiently. Pierre Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:47:49 -0400 (EDT) From: downing at robocop.NYU.EDU (Troy Downing) Subject: Cask preperation I Just bought an Oak cask a few days ago and want to try my first cask-conditioned ale. My question: What do I need to do to sanitize and prepare the cask before racking in my beer? The case is made of american white oak and has a real nice oaky smell to it. It isn't lined with anything except the oak on the inside appears darker than the outside as if it's been burnt. I thought of just pouring a little boiling water in and swishing it around for awhile to get rid of any surface nasties, but am curious how others prepare oak for conditioning beer. (I know that some british ales use pitch lined cases, but I'm not interested in that. I want there to be an oaky character in the finished beer...) Thanks in advance! -Troy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Troy Downing, Research Scientist (Voice) (212) 998-3208 New York University (FAX) (212) 995-4122 Media Research Lab 715-719 Broadway, Rm 1214 downing at nyu.edu New York, NY 10003-1866 http://found.cs.nyu.edu/downing Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:57:46 -0500 From: MURPHYJ at ada.org Subject: Archives On 20, Apr. 1995 Gregg Willis wrote >Help! >Being recently unceramoniously dropped from the mailing list I called >upon the archives to fill in my missing issues. Using ftp.stanford.edu in >the /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer/digest directory I found my missing >volumes but they are in a format I cannot read ("z files"). What do I need >to read these files? Can anybody out there help me? >Private E-Mail please so I don't miss the answer. >Thank you. >Gregg Willis >Willis CPC at aol.com Gregg, I ran into something like this recently and found that if you request the file without the ".Z" extention some FTP servers will recognize this as a request for the uncompressed version and will decomperss the file before tranfering it to you. You may want to try that. Joe Murphy MurphyJ at ada.org Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 15:49:17 EST From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org> Subject: Late Hops Just a minor note. When figuring the addition of late hops and comparing to someone else, you need to determine how long your wort stays hot. Consider these two situations: Person Time before end of boil Time to wort cooling A 5 min. 15 min. B 5 min. 75 min. Person A sends the wort through a chiller so it is completely cool 15 minutes after leaving the boil, person B cools in the bathtub and it takes quite a while. Personally, I would think that the bitterness, flavor, and aroma contributions of the two would be very different. John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Return to table of contents
Date: 24 Apr 1995 10:45:10 PDT From: "Wallinger, W. A." <WAWA at chevron.com> Subject: co2/air mixtures From: Wallinger, W. A. (Wade) To: OPEN ADDRESSING SERVI-OPENADDR Subject: co2/air mixtures Date: 1995-04-24 12:30 Priority: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ saw another comment recently about the alleged 'fact' that since co2 is heavier than air it will settle out over a liquid and keep air from getting to the liquid. by that logic we would all be dead since co2 in the atmosphere would surround us on the surface and o2 would rise above us. gas mixtures remain fairly well mixed, regardless of the molecular weights of the components in the mixture. so, the best solution is to purge air from a keg by pressuring and depressuring a few times with co2 rather than by relying on a 'blanket' of co2. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 10:38:38 CDT From: Phil Miller <C616063 at MIZZOU1.missouri.edu> Subject: Rye and hop bitterness This past JAnuary I posted a note about some awful bitterness that was being imparted into my brews, making them virtually undrinkable. I had basically messed up a wicked and a cream ale. I searched for the answer in water chemistr y, but later realized that it probably had more to do with my method than anything. As an extract brewer (going all-grain this summer :) ), I brewed like many other extract brewers. I did, however, experiment with rinsing off my hops when transfering my brew to the primary. I felt that this was the cause: by rinsing the hops I was pulling off more oils thereby drawing off more bit- terness than desired. I was told by the owners of the local homebrew place that if it were indeed hop bitterness, this should be less noticeable over time. Well it's been about 4 months, and I tasted the cream ale this weekend. The bitterness was almost entirely gone, and the cream ale was very nice and creamy (tasty too!), the wicked still was bitter, but not as bad as it originally was. I am almost sure (sorry about my unscientific method) that the problem was with the rinsing of hops and not my water, equipment, or my choice of hops (some thought it may be my choice of hops, but I've always used Brewer's Gold, Cascade, Fuggles, Willamette in other brews and never had a problem. The only thing I've done differently in those breww that I did not do in another br ew was rinse the hops. Therefore, I believe the method was the problem. There was also a note about rye today (4/24/95). I have brewed an extract rye ale using no rye malt, but using rye flakes in much the same manner that an oatmeal-stout brewer (from extract) would make an oatmeal stout. I put about 10-15 ounces of rye flake into the steeping specialty grains, and I was very pleased with the results. It imparted a nice dry palate to the pale ale recipe I added it to, and has become a favorite of several friends who have tried it. I had the usual problems (gunks up the strainer which allows some flaky residue to get into the boil pot, but no harm done; more inconvenience than anything). Basically what I did as put the rye flakes into the steeping specialty grains and steeped the whole lot for 30 minutes at 160 degrees F. ___________ Phil Miller / \ Dept. of Economics / ______ \ University of Missouri, Columbia / / \ \ Internet: c616063 at mizzou1.missouri.edu / / \____\ c616063 at showme.missouri.edu | || | |--\ /--/ "If he got hit by a train, I'd back over him | || | |()/ \__ again in my car." Jimmy Piersal on Jerry | || | |()\ \ Reinsdorf | |\__/ |__/ \__/ "I don't like all this sex on the telly! I mean \ \ ____ I keep falling off!" \ \_______/ / Graham Chapman from a Monty Python's Flying \ / Circus Episode \___________/ Mizzou Tigers Basketball 14-0 Big-8 champs 93-94 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 07:41:56 -0600 From: k-jones at ee.utah.edu (Kelly Jones) Subject: simplified RIMS In light of recent postings regarding the difficulty of cleaning RIMS heating elements and larger-sized RIMS, I'd thought I'd desscribe my recent experiences with a simpler RIMS system. I've wanted to implement a RIMS for some time, but haven't found the time or $ to put it together. I was watching the owner of a local homebrew store brew a batch on his SABCO RIMS, when I observed that, according to the instructions, the in-line heater was used mostly to maintain temp during the rests (and didn't work that hard at it). Most of the heat for temperature boosts came from the gas burners. Now, I've had a magnetically-coupled pump for some time, which I use with a three-tier, one-burner half barrel system. My kettle is a converted keg, with a false bottom cut from a piece of perforated stainles sheet. A SS tube, bent so that the tip is about 1/4" from the bottom of the kettle, allows for wort removal. A recycled gas water heater element is the burner. To operate this as a RIMS, I simply run the drain tube into the pump inlet, and pump the wort back up to the top of the grain bed (through the opening in the top of the kettle). There is no electric heating element, no temperature control, nothing but a kettle, burner, and pump. When I want to do a temperature boost, I simply turn on the gas burner, and monitor the temperature at the top of the grain bed. To demonstrate the effectiveness of this system, I brewed a batch of Wit last week. I doughed in about 16# of grain, which was 52% pale malt, 21% white wheat, 21% rolled wheat flakes, and 6% wheat malt. Mash thickness was about 1.6 qt/lb. I doughed in to 40C for a 30 min glucanase rest, did a 45 min protein rest in the 48-52C range, raised to 60C for 45 min, 70C for 15 min, and mashed out at 80C. Temperature rise with the burner on was about 1.0 - 1.5 C per minute, so boosts generally took less than 10 min. Remarkably, the temperature held fairly constant during the rests; a blast from the burner every 10-15 minutes kept the temperature fairly steady. At no time did the mash stick, despite being 50% wheat. In fact, the flow through the pump was so fast, I had to throttle it back somewhat to avoid splashing/turbulence. There was no scorching of the wort, however, when I removed the false bottom afterwards, I noticed that there was maybe 1/8" of proteinaceous material coagulated on the bottom of the keg. I do not see this as a problem. In short, I have implemented a RIMS without the complications of an inline heater and temperature controller. This system gives me most of the advantages of a RIMS (quick temperature boosts, uniform temperature, no stirring) without much of the complication. If you have a kettle (w/false bottom) and a pump, you're in business. I will probably eventually add the inline heater and controller, but I've found that what I have has enabled me to "ease into" RIMS. Kelly Return to table of contents
Date: 24 Apr 1995 14:21:33 U From: "Manning Martin MP" <manning_martin_mp at mcst.ae.ge.com> Subject: Siphon Aerators Keith Royster, with respect to siphon-tube aerators, correctly points out: >The interesting point of all of this is that the higher up the tube you >place your hole, the greater the pressure difference and thus the more >air will get drawn in (and the better the aeration of your wort!). However, from this you can also see that the lowest pressure within the siphon is at the top of the bend, above the upper (source) vessel. Obviously, placing several holes at this location will impair the operation of the siphon, as the wort on the source side will be free to flow back from whence it came. In fact, if the air inlet holes are placed at any point above the bottom of the upper vessel, the siphon will stop before the source vessel is emptied. When the level of the holes and the level of the wort in the source vessel match, the pressure at the surface of the wort and at the air inlet holes are equal and atmospheric, and there is no longer any force to drive air into the wort stream, or the flow of the siphon! The sub-atmospheric pressure inside the siphon hose is also responsible for causing CO2 to evolve from fermented beer when racking, whereupon it collects at the upper bend and slows the siphon flow. Martin Manning Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:40:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "John C. Schmitz" <schmitjc at musc.edu> Subject: sterile bottle caps What is the best way to sterilize bottle caps? (boiling, bleach solution, B-brite or other) I am about to brew a strong ale and would like to age it a while. Somewhere is the attic of my mind I remember reading that some sterilization methods effect the lining of the cap. Any thoughts? TIA John schmitjc at musc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 18:29:29 EST From: "Harralson, Kirk" <kwh at news.roadnet.ups.com> Subject: NA alternatives Several people have asked recently about making non-alcoholic beer. The only response I've seen involves driving off alcohol by heat, then using artificial carbonation. I seem to recall that, by definition, a non-alcoholic beverage must be <= .5% alcohol. I question if this would be a hard constraint for a homebrewed alternative. I think there is a threshold for alcohol content that triggers the cravings for people with dependencies, but I don't know what that threshold is. For the people who just don't want to get drunk, a very low gravity beer may be a good alternative (particularly if you aren't set up to keg yet). An additional incentive for this would be the reduction in calories. A friend of mine made the "Belgian Driving Beer" from the book by Rajotte (?), and it was surprisingly very good. You could probably drink these all night with very little effect. I don't own the book, so I can't forward the recipe. However, if I wanted to brew a very low alcohol beer, that is where I would start. Does anyone else have experience with this recipe/style? I would be very interested in other peoples comments. Kirk Harralson Bel Air, Maryland Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 14:13:43 MDT From: exabyte!smtplink!guym at uunet.uu.net Subject: PhillChill Phittings Since I posted a request a few weeks ago asking what size copper tubing to use with the Phillchill Phittings, I thought I'd post my impressions of the things. I think they're great! The directions call for "at least 25 feet" of 3/8" o.d. copper tubing but I used 50 feet. My beer will be so cold after running through that, it'll be an ice beer. Well, down here in the Confederate States of America, it'll be more like bath water in the summer. Anyway, I shoved the 50' of copper tubing (minus nearly 3' I used to construct a copper racking cane for my half-barrel kettle) into a spare garden hose and coiled it around my bottling bucket. The whole operation took maybe 30 minutes. All of the needed fittings and clamps were included and the instructions were quite clear. I did a trial run with water to check for leaks and there were none. Another simple product that works well, much like Jack's Easymasher (another gadget that I am extremely pleased with!). Anyway, I'd highly recommend it to anyone considering making a counterflow chiller. -- Guy McConnell /// Exabyte Corp. /// Huntersville, NC /// guym at exabyte.com "So Barmaid bring a pitcher, another round of brew..." Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 04:24:01 EST From: ramsey at tccbbs.com Subject: Lost newsletters I see that I'm not the only one that was dropped from the list with out a word! I've missed this place! I missed mailing #1706 - #1713 which I'm assuming are the ones that had the discussions about the herb mead/beers and non alcoholic beer questions that I posed. Thanks for the 2 people that answered in e-mail I didn't miss your suggestions! :) I've had no luck as of yet getting the back issues. If anyone would have the back copies and would forward them through e-mail I would be ever grateful. It's time to get brewing! Cheryl Feucht Massillon, Ohio Ramsey at tccbbs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:16:08 +0200 From: Fredrik.Stahl at mathdept.umu.se (Fredrik Stahl) Subject: Gelatine in slants In HBD #1714, Andy Walsh writes: >On boiling gelatine. >I tried to make up some cultures for yeast slants on the >w/e. As Dave Draper (and others) have recommended >gelatine as an easily available replacement for agar >in this process, I gave it a go. <snip> >Result? The unboiled >tubes solidified without problems at room temperature, >the sterilised ones would not solidify unless put in the >fridge. >Conclusions? Do not boil gelatine. I am no chemist, so >maybe the proteins are already "denatured" and can not >be further degraded, but I am convinced that boiling the >stuff does something to stuff up its setting properties. >How on earth can others use gelatine for yeast slants? >or, Help Dave, what am I doing wrong? Maybe I bought >a bad pack? ;>) >In the meantime, I'm off to buy some agar. I use gelatine without any problems, about 12 teaspoons per litre. I boil the wort for about 15 mins. and dissolve the gelatin in the hot liquid. I then put it in small glass jars and sterilize by steaming in a big kettle. (I just put the jars on a plate in the kettle and add a little water. I do not immerse them in the boiling water.) I have had no problems other than that the gelatin liquifies above 25C, so the slants have to be kept below that. I made a test to find out how much gelatine to add. The result was that all of the jars solidified but more gelatine gave a "harder" media (of course). There was no difference in the critical temperature at 25C, though. Andy, are you sure your room temperature was low enough? If so I can't explain why it didn't work for you. Agar is not an option for me because of the price (more than 100 $ for 1 kg, and no smaller packages available). /Fredrik.Stahl at mathdept.umu.se Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:11:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Art McGregor <mcgregap at acq.osd.mil> Subject: Mash Starch Conversion/GOTT Cooler for sale (VA/DC Area) Hi All! I've brewed about 6 all grain batches and have a few questions on the mash process. I do single infusion mashes in a 7 gal Gott cooler, use a Phils Phalse bottom, and sparge with a Phils Sparger (whirly gig). During the mash we're concerned with pH and starch conversion. The runoff is supposed to be recirculate until clear (10-30 min) before the iodine starch test is done. My question is when using a cooler and doing single infusions mashes, how do I recirculate the runoff without constantly taking the cooler lid on and off (which cools the mash) to recirculate? If the runoff is not recirculated quickly, but collected for a while, the mash water level drops below the grainbed, and I recall reading that makes the mash pH go up. Is this true? Also, by draining a lot of the liquid before recirculating increases the chances of a stuck sparge. So, how do I recirculate the runoff, without cooling the mash too much, or not draining the mash level too far and not raising the pH of the mash? The only methods I see are: (1) Manually intensive (draining, removing lid, pouring in runoff, closing lid, draining more, etc. and lots of heat loss) until runoff is clear. or (2) Have a very thin mash (mash in with 1 1/2 to 2 qts water/lb of grain), and draining large amounts of the runoff before recirculating. or (3) Using a recirculating pump and running till clear I am open to suggestions. TIA ************** Gott Cooler for Sale (Local VA/DC interest) I asked a co-worker to pick up a 10 Gal GOTT Cooler from Builders Square 50% closing sale in Manassas, VA. Turns out I was out there on other business, so I picked one up myself. I found out on Monday that he bought one for me too :^| , so I have one for sale. It's brand new, still in its box, 10 Gallons, all for $21 ($20 plus $1 tax). Private email for this. BTW, as of Friday there was only 1 GOTT left at the Manassas store, down from 8 that donbrew at aol.com posted last Wed. Good Brewing :) Art McGregor, (mcgregap at acq.osd.mil) Northern Virginia, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 06:26:54 cst From: "J DUDLEY LEAPHART" <JDLEAP at ccmail.monsanto.com> Subject: Re: black dog hops In HBD 1713, Dale Moore asks about what type of hops are used in Black Dog Ale. At the brewery in Bozeman they use Cascades exclusivley on the Black Dog. I'm not certain what is used in Black Dog that is contracted out, which IMHO is not nearly as good as the brew from Bozeman. Dale, if you can't find a recipe for BD, contact me and I'll ask one of my friends who used to work at the brewery. Hope this helps. Dudley Leaphart Billings, MT Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:50:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joseph E. Santos" <jesantos at WPI.EDU> Subject: Color Wheel? Question? Since my subscription has not been deleted I must be doing OK :) I have been brewing for a few years and have yet to find a reference for the SRM standards other than using the color unit calculations. Are there any? I have never entered a competition so I don't know alot about the actual judging of color.What do all the judges use during a competition? To become the most knowledgable brewer I think it's important to be able to describe brews in detail. Does anyone know if there is a color wheel for determining color or does everyone just compare beer to beer without a standard. If there is no such device, I offer this suggestion without any claim to patent :<) for any motivated person who has the time to develop a tool which would be of great assistance to me and many homebrewers. I figure a color wheel could be made from a transparent piece of plastic with the color gradients and SRM numbers written on it along with the applicable beer styles. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, DR J Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 05:46:53 MST-0700 From: "Dave Ebert" <DNE at Data.HSC.Colorado.edu> Subject: Kirk OK Kirk. You got me to bite big time! Paybacks!! Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:15:59 -0500 (EST) From: I Gelman <igelman at smtplink.mssm.edu> Subject: Heating of gelatin Text item: Text_1 I noted the submission of Andy Walsh from Sydney regarding his inability to get boiled gelatin to set. Indeed, gelatin breaks down quite easily when boiled. Moreover, if it has already set and you want to remelt it, it will not set. One way I have used gelatin in yeast growth medium in the lab is to microwave the gelatin solution for roughly 5 minutes. Microwaving is ideal for sterilization as it kills microorganisms and even spores rapidly, without the side-effect of long-term heating (which not only breaks down the gelatin, but also destrys many heat-labile labile vitamins). Unfortunately, this process requires a microwave oven, which are fairly ubiquitous in the States. One other note if you microwave: kepp an eye on you heated solutions during the microwaving as they can often froth over. To remedy, simply stop the microwave oven when you see the froth rising, let the solution sit for a minute or two, and then continue. Cheers!! ******************************* Irwin Gelman from New York City igelman at smtplink.mssm.edu ******************************* Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:41:57 EDT From: " Robert Bloodworth ZFBTO - MT0054" <debaydr9 at ibmmail.com> Subject: low and no alcohol beers There has been some talk on the digest about producing alcohol free beers at home. The problem with distilling off the alcohol is that the aroma compounds in your beer will also be removed as azeotropes with the water-ethanol you distill from the beer. Commercial breweries use semi-permeable membranes to remove the alcohol, but these are not 100% effective and some flavor components are also lost. In the US, some of these components are replaced with synthetic flavor additives. Here in Germany, this is "verboten" by the Rheinheitsgebot. Some researchers at the University of Dortmund have found a way around this by inventing a process to selectively remove the flavor components from a beer. The beer is then dialysed to remove the alcohol, and the original flavor components readded to the beer. Basically, the beer is passed through a column containing an adsorber resin. This resin is made up of highly porous polystyrene beads with a very large surface area. The flavor compounds in the beer adsorb onto the surface of the resin and are concentrated there. The alcohol is then removed from the treated beer, either by dialysis or perhaps by vacuum distillation. A small amount of this alcohol is then used to elute (i.e. wash) the flavor compounds from the surface of the adsorber resin. This concentrated "essence of beer" is then added to the alcohol-free beer. The result: Flavorful, very low alcohol beer according to the Rheinheitsgebot. Adsorber resins are available from the major producers of ion-exchange resins for those interested in trying this. E-mail me for more information. Prost, Bob Bloodworth Cologne Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 10:20:21 EDT From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma) Subject: RE: dark grains again/beer talk Hi All, In HBD#1712, Dave Sapsis writes: >What I'm getting at, and I think may have been the origin of this >thread in the first place: Black Patent malt is dangerous stuff. It is very >easy to overuse it, both as a coloring agent (in Viennas, brown ales, etc.) >as well as a flavoring agent (porters and such). It has a very concentrated >burnt character to it that can make its way into delicate beers (such as a >Vienna) as well as completely swamp the flavor of more assertive beers >(porters, stouts). I could not agree more. Recently, I judged stouts at a fairly large regional competition. There were 12 beers in the flight, *7* of which were so dark they were absolutely impermeable to light. All seven of those beers had that unmistakable burnt, acidic, harsh flavor from black patent malt, which dominated and detracted from the flavor profiles of the beers. After the flight, I discussed this with one of the other judges on the panel. The style guidelines for dry stout read "Black, opaque..." when describing the color, I think brewers read the word "black" and conclude that large amounts of black patent malt should be used. As Dave so rightly points out, black patent has a very strong flavor, and can easily dominate the flavor of even assertively flavored beers like porters and stouts. >FWIW, I >have found that using a high Lov roast barlet in lieu of BP has worked well >for me in darkening brown ales. Although some flavor has come through from >the roast, it is much less sharp than from my experiences using BP. A dry stout should have a significant roasted barley character, the recipes I've seen and brewed successfully typically call for a pound in a 5 gallon batch. I also use some high Lovibond crystal and a bit of chocolate malt as well. Any beer with that much roasted barley and some chocolate malt will be quite dark as it is, *very little* black patent is required to achieve the black, opaque effect. I use 1/2 cup of BP, which is roughly 1/8# in a 5 gallon batch, the beer comes out black as ink, and has the requisite roasted malt flavor without the burnt, acidic harshness. I second Dave's advice, go easy on the black patent. Cheers, Jim dipalma at sky.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 08:35:17 EST From: guyruth at abq-ros.com Subject: This is a test I am testing to see if the problem with attached files is fixed on my BBS. If successful the Spring Thing results will follow. ============================ Automated Message ============================ There was a file attached to this message on the Bulletin Board System. This file attachment has been routed in subsequent messages. ============================= End of Message ============================== Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:36:57 -0400 From: PatrickM50 at aol.com Subject: I'm all wet!, .Z files Ok, Ok friends! You can all put your water pistols down now! I think everyone by now (except CGEDEN!) has corrected my post re: his question about whether the "non-Jack, PBS" archives exist and where to get them. (Conclusion : no one is saying and/or no one knows). My apologies to CGEDEN. It was not a flame, but a misguided attempt at education. Now please excuse me while I go dry off. Oh, BTW. Several posters have mentioned using the "get" command to automatically uncompress .Z archive files. Just wanted to point out that this will not work if you are using online service providers like AOL which don't give you access to unix commands - they just download the file as-is. Hence you do need an uncompressing utility like "gunzip" that I mentioned in an earlier post. Pat Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 9:06:05 MDT From: Norman Pyle <npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM> Subject: Warm Ferments/SNPA hops/The 'Bot Ian Bishop (is it me, or have we gained several Ians lately?) writes: >I am in a situation where continual temperature control is not >economically viable. Therefore I usually end up fermenting at quite >high temperatures and live with some of the more unusual flavors. > >Would I gain any benefit from obtaining liquid yeast cultures? Are >there any which have a particularly high heat tolerance or which enhance >the flavors created at these temperatures? Ian, liquid yeast cultures have made a large impact on the quality of my beer, high temperature ferments or not. I believe I know of a couple of yeasts from Wyeast that would perform well a bit warmer. One is the Belgian White yeast, which I believe would be a fine yeast for other Belgian styles, and even some not-so-Belgian styles. It seemed to just hang in there for me in the range of 66-68F (19-20C) - I believe it would work well in the mid 20s C, maybe much warmer. Also, the Wyeast London ESB yeast really is unhappy (drops out of solution) in the low 60s F, so I'm guessing it would prefer warmer climes. An obvious guess would also be the Wyeast American Ale yeast, which is a very clean fermenter. I suspect it will throw some interesting esters at hotter temps but would remain cleaner than most yeasts. BTW, you can also try a simple water bath for your fermenter (bucket in a bucket approach) with some cloth draped over the fermenter into the water. Evaporative cooling is an amazing thing if your climate is dry enough. Good luck. ** Jim Fitzgerald writes: >I really haven't figured out if they dry hop SNPA at the brewery or not. >What >I do know is that it takes a dry hop in my secondary of about 3/4 to 1 oz per >5 gallons two weeks or so before kegging to get that wonderful cascade aroma >in my pale ale. I have also had other people respond to the old post stating >the same thing. This could be due to the fact that us home brewers can't >really >get the freshest hops available (e.g. the aromatic oil content has been aged >out of them) and simply finishing with older hops will not do...hence the dry >hop is needed also. Jim, they don't dry hop SNPA. Also, I disagree that we homebrewers can't get the freshest hops available. Try Just Hops, or maybe HopTech. I think you'll get much better hops than you get from your local retailer. ** Gee, I hope this post doesn't cause the robot to yank me - ouch that hurts! Dave Ebert, it was a joke!!! Don't get a knot in your shorts! Norm Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:11:44 -0500 (CDT) From: gellym at aviion.persoft.com (brewing chemist Mitch) Subject: .z vs .Z vs .gz This is not strictly brewing related, but is enough so because it involves people downloading brewing related material. In HBD1714, PatrickM50 at aol.com refers to > Windows-friendly unzipping utility for .z files called "gzip.exe" at > "prep.ai.mit.edu" in directory /pub/gnu. The self-extracting file to ftp is > actually called "gzip-1.2.4.msdos.exe" but it will rename itself "gzip-1.exe" gzip is an excellent compression utility, but unless the .z files in question were misnamed/renamed, gzip'ed files will have a .gz extension. Files with a .z extension are compressed with the 'pack' utility, as opposed to .Z files which are compressed with the unix 'compress' utility. Both utilities have their advantages which I will not elaborate on in this forum. gzip has about the best compression ratio of the three, and that is what I generally use. However - the gunzip utility *will* decompress both .z and .Z files. In the end, I suppose people would get gunzip and uncompress .z files and it would work just fine, but I needed to point out that .z files were not originally compressed with gzip. Thanks for your patience. So yeah, grab gzip. GNU rules ! Cheers, Mitch - -- -- Mitch Gelly -- owner/brewmaster of the ManOwaR nano-Brewery software QA specialist, unix systems administrator, Usenet admin, zymurgist, BJCP beer judge, president of the Madison Homebrewers -- gellym at aviion.persoft.com -- QC is OUT, QA is IN ! Deal with it. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:31:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Willits <willits at camelot.Stanford.EDU> Subject: Question about a Counter-flow Chiller, HBD Subscription Hi, I have just completed my counter-flow wort chiller. It was very easy to construct and cost around $30. It is of the copper-tubing-inside -of-a-garden-hose variety. It uses 25 feet of 3/8" copper and 22 feet of 5/8" garden hose. The fittings were made with Y shaped garden hose splitters, a 3/4" hose to 1/2" pipe adaptor, and a 1/2" pipe to 3/8" compression fitting which seals around the copper tubing. For anyone who would like more detailed plans, please e-mail me. My question involves what sort of tubing to use as an input line to the chiller. Eventually, I would like to plumb the chiller directly into a valve on the bottom of my 10 gallon pot; however, I have not had a chance to have this valve welded yet. So, in the meantime, what do others use for input tubing? The tubing I am using now is proline tubing from the local hardware store (tasteless, odorless, FDA approved) and works great for siphoning and kegging, but I can't find any information about it's temperature rating. I would appreciate any ideas. My other point was about the automated subscription drops I read about in a previous digest (I think yesterday's). I am a dedicated reader of the digest, but I post very infrequently. However, I do respond to many questions through private e-mail. It seems as if there should be some way to periodically check if people like me still want to be subscribed before we are cut off. Mike Willits willits at camelot.stanford.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:42:09 -0400 From: mbunster at hibbs.vcu.edu (Mark Bunster) Subject: beer bottles Hey all-- I have a decently-sized collection of commercial brew bottles from around the world gathering dust in my parent's house. A fair number are imports, especially from Germany. These predate the micro revolution here, so the US bottles are not overly exotic. However, the time I've had them means some are probably no longer being made. Anyhow, if you're a collector, please email me PRIVATELY (I autostore my digests, not reading them day-to-day) at the address below. Thanks! Mark ||||| Mark Bunster | I hear they're good at parking cars Survey Research Lab | I hear they want to be like we are. Virginia Commonwealth University | Pere Ubu Richmond, VA 23284-3016 | Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 12:08:29 EDT From: CGEDEN at NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU Subject: Enough already My very short posting about archives for the "PBS of homebrewing" seems to have led to some misunderstanding. I was referring to the private, by-invitation-only, "advanced"-brewers-only, commercial-free, list that Jay Hersch referred to a couple of weeks ago. My tone may have sounded ironic, bordering on the disrespectful towards the gods of homebrewing, but the question was sincere. Granted that the gods have the right to maintain a private list, I was curious whether we mortals could read their postings at a public archive site or if it too exclusive for that. Sorry for the confusion. Chris Geden Mortal, brewer Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:34:41 -0700 From: froeh at trojan.naa.rockwell.com (Michael Froehlich) Subject: Hose Beer Help, I have been attacked by the awful effects of hose beer and I can't see. Well, actually that is not really the case but it could be. Anyway, I have hose beer. I believe the cause is from using bleach and not rinsing enough. I usually use iodophor but ran out when I needed to transfer my Wit (TM) beer. Is it possible to save this or should I (shudder to think) drink it with nose held? Please send any info on saving this beer. Thank-you. /* Michael Froehlich |~~| O O froeh at thor.naa.rockwell.com | |) "Cheers!" > |__| \__/ */ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:13:40 -0700 From: KozukaShi at eworld.com Subject: more on clear glass Thanks to all who responded here and privately to my question concerning clear glass and mead. Overwhelmingly the responses state that clear glass and mead go well together. It was interesting to learn that many folks usually fill one clear bottle with beer at bottling time, just so they can easily observe what is happening to their batch as it resides in bottles. Others place a clear bottle of brew on shelves with those from previous batches for side by side comparisons of color and also for simple visual enjoyment. Today I'm preparing to rack a batch of Cream Ale from plastic fermenter to glass secondary and it strikes me that I usually work in a somewhat sunny kitchen and the carboy is clear glass. I understand lots of folks brew outdoors (I hope to get there one day!) and they, like me, often use a glass primary - likely also clear. Are we putting the whole batch in jeopardy of being sunstruck while it is concentrated in this one big clear bottle? Would a shift to brown glass carboys contribute to quality? Would it make sense to consider using some kind of carboy coating or a cover to keep the light out? John Grivetti sends Zohar: She is a Be'er, a well and an explanation. . . KozukaShi at eworld.com Return to table of contents
Date: 25 Apr 1995 12:44:12 GMT From: "Dan Wilson" <DWILSON3 at EMAIL.USPS.GOV> Subject: Robots, Bottles, Plastic, and Hops My first post! I'm so proud. Let's hope I don't foul it up. I suppose with the robot watching our every move, us lurkers are an endangered species. Which allows me to segue into topic one. It seems to me that cleaning up the mail list could be easily done using periodic "are you still there and interested" messages. If no response or bounced, give 'em the hook. Pressuring folks into making submissions to stay on the list will result in all sorts of innane drivel. (Like this, right?) Soapboxing complete. I noticed a question about a week ago regarding how to tell if a plastic bucket is indeed food grade. Either I slept through the response or there wasn't one. I'd like to repeat it and beg the indulgence of the group if I indeed did sleep through it. Question two: Is there any significant difference between the 12 oz brown bottles available at your local Home Brew store and those that Sam Adams comes in? I've been soaking the labels off and having at it with those. Question three: I've seen some comments here and there about hops from Boston Brewing, I'm afraid I missed the boat on this one. What is (or was) the deal? How can I get in on it and is it worth bothering with? Private Email works for any of the above questions if you see fit. And the address is DWILSON3 at email.usps.gov. I await the collective wisdom. Dan Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 13:54:35 -0400 (EDT) From: ROSS at MSCF.MED.UPENN.EDU Subject: O2 barrier caps Date sent: 25-APR-1995 13:50:48 I have been considering buying some oxygen barrier caps for botting some barleywine and mead, since I expect to keep these bottles around in storage for some time and would like to prevent oxidation. I would be interested in knowing: - How do these caps work? - Do they really work and are they worth using for long-term storage? - What is the proper means of sanitizing these caps? --- Andy Ross --- ross at mscf.med.upenn.edu Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1715, 04/26/95