HOMEBREW Digest #1715 Wed 26 April 1995
Digest #1714
Digest #1716
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Gelatin Redux (Pierre Jelenc)
Cask preperation (Troy Downing)
Archives (MURPHYJ)
Late Hops (John DeCarlo )
co2/air mixtures ("Wallinger, W. A.")
Rye and hop bitterness (Phil Miller)
simplified RIMS (Kelly Jones)
Siphon Aerators ("Manning Martin MP")
sterile bottle caps ("John C. Schmitz")
NA alternatives ("Harralson, Kirk")
PhillChill Phittings (smtplink!guym)
Lost newsletters (ramsey)
Gelatine in slants (Fredrik Stahl)
Mash Starch Conversion/GOTT Cooler for sale (VA/DC Area) (Art McGregor)
Re: black dog hops ("J DUDLEY LEAPHART")
Color Wheel? ("Joseph E. Santos")
Kirk ("Dave Ebert")
Heating of gelatin (I Gelman)
low and no alcohol beers (" Robert Bloodworth ZFBTO - MT0054")
RE: dark grains again/beer talk (Jim Dipalma)
This is a test (guyruth)
I'm all wet!, .Z files (PatrickM50)
Warm Ferments/SNPA hops/The 'Bot (Norman Pyle)
.z vs .Z vs .gz (brewing chemist Mitch)
Question about a Counter-flow Chiller, HBD Subscription (Willits)
beer bottles (Mark Bunster)
Enough already (CGEDEN)
Hose Beer (Michael Froehlich)
more on clear glass (KozukaShi)
Robots, Bottles, Plastic, and Hops ("Dan Wilson")
O2 barrier caps (ROSS)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 11:04:27 EDT
From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu>
Subject: Gelatin Redux
In HBD #1713 Jack Schmidling is still puzzling over gelatin:
> Talk about missing the point..... I thought I would learn something
> useful from this thread and all I got was semantics.
No, you did get the information but did not recognize it. Let's try again.
> To most folks (and
> one of many definitions in the dictionary) denature means to render
> unfit for use.
But not when you use it in the same breath as "protein" and "heat". Just
as "mash" does not mean the same thing when you talk about beer, potatoes,
or Casanova.
> I have never heard the term used in connection with
> gelatine
Hey, so you learn something everyday!
> but have read many times that it should not be boiled. I have
Eek! Of all people, you, the Great Debunker, should know that what you
read ain't necessarily so.
> also always heard that it should always be disolved in cold water. I do
What you read, quite possibly in garbled prose, is that gelatin should
be preswollen in cold water; that's because if it is dumped into boiling
water it will clump into a disgusting mess. It does not dissolve
appreciably in cold water in a reasonable length of time. It does swell,
and that makes the subsequent heating much easier, because heat transfer
is much more even. No clumps and no burning mess at the bottom of the pan.
> this and then raise to 170F to pasteurize it.
Or boil it. Boiling it in water will not change it in any way.
Note for cooks: Gelatin is a protein, and as such is subject to cleavage
by various agents commonly found in a kitchen. Paramount among those are
meat tenderizers and certain fruits (pineapples and papayas especially),
which contain proteolytic enzymes, and acids (vinegar and lemon juice,
for instance). Heating, or boiling, gelatin with acids _will_ degrade it
(not denature, it's already denatured) by cleavage of the bonds between
certain amino-acids. Such gelatin boiled in acid is kaput.
Gelatin boiled in water is just as it ever was, since it was made in the
first place by boiling for many hours.
> Now, may I conclude from
> the above that boiling does not "render unfit for use" as I intend to
Yes.
> use it or simply that it will not be "denatured", whatever that means?
Gelatin _is_ denatured, by definition. It stays that way. Denatured is
good.
If one were to renature it by some means, it would be collagen, i.e.
gristle or tendons. I don't want tendons in my beer!
And once again, my experience with boiled gelatin in ales has always
been positive. Never have I got a beer that failed to clear to crystal
brightness.
The down side of gelatin is that it tends to coat the bottles with a dull
film. The beer is bright but the bottle gets cloudy. Bleach removes that
film efficiently.
Pierre
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 12:47:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: downing at robocop.NYU.EDU (Troy Downing)
Subject: Cask preperation
I Just bought an Oak cask a few days ago and want to try my first
cask-conditioned ale. My question: What do I need to do to sanitize
and prepare the cask before racking in my beer? The case is made of
american white oak and has a real nice oaky smell to it. It isn't lined
with anything except the oak on the inside appears darker than the outside
as if it's been burnt. I thought of just pouring a little boiling water
in and swishing it around for awhile to get rid of any surface nasties,
but am curious how others prepare oak for conditioning beer. (I know
that some british ales use pitch lined cases, but I'm not interested in
that. I want there to be an oaky character in the finished beer...)
Thanks in advance!
-Troy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Troy Downing, Research Scientist (Voice) (212) 998-3208
New York University (FAX) (212) 995-4122
Media Research Lab
715-719 Broadway, Rm 1214 downing at nyu.edu
New York, NY 10003-1866 http://found.cs.nyu.edu/downing
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:57:46 -0500
From: MURPHYJ at ada.org
Subject: Archives
On 20, Apr. 1995 Gregg Willis wrote
>Help!
>Being recently unceramoniously dropped from the mailing list I called
>upon the archives to fill in my missing issues. Using ftp.stanford.edu in
>the /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer/digest directory I found my missing
>volumes but they are in a format I cannot read ("z files"). What do I need
>to read these files? Can anybody out there help me?
>Private E-Mail please so I don't miss the answer.
>Thank you.
>Gregg Willis
>Willis CPC at aol.com
Gregg,
I ran into something like this recently and found that if you request the file
without the ".Z" extention some FTP servers will recognize this as a
request for the uncompressed version and will decomperss the file
before tranfering it to you. You may want to try that.
Joe Murphy
MurphyJ at ada.org
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 15:49:17 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Late Hops
Just a minor note. When figuring the addition of late hops and comparing to
someone else, you need to determine how long your wort stays hot. Consider
these two situations:
Person Time before end of boil Time to wort cooling
A 5 min. 15 min.
B 5 min. 75 min.
Person A sends the wort through a chiller so it is completely cool 15 minutes
after leaving the boil, person B cools in the bathtub and it takes quite a
while.
Personally, I would think that the bitterness, flavor, and aroma contributions
of the two would be very different.
John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
Return to table of contents
Date: 24 Apr 1995 10:45:10 PDT
From: "Wallinger, W. A." <WAWA at chevron.com>
Subject: co2/air mixtures
From: Wallinger, W. A. (Wade)
To: OPEN ADDRESSING SERVI-OPENADDR
Subject: co2/air mixtures
Date: 1995-04-24 12:30
Priority:
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
saw another comment recently about the alleged 'fact' that since co2 is
heavier than air it will settle out over a liquid and keep air from getting
to the liquid. by that logic we would all be dead since co2 in the
atmosphere would surround us on the surface and o2 would rise above us. gas
mixtures remain fairly well mixed, regardless of the molecular weights of
the components in the mixture. so, the best solution is to purge air from a
keg by pressuring and depressuring a few times with co2 rather than by
relying on a 'blanket' of co2.
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 10:38:38 CDT
From: Phil Miller <C616063 at MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Subject: Rye and hop bitterness
This past JAnuary I posted a note about some awful bitterness that was being
imparted into my brews, making them virtually undrinkable. I had basically
messed up a wicked and a cream ale. I searched for the answer in water chemistr
y, but later realized that it probably had more to do with my method than
anything. As an extract brewer (going all-grain this summer :) ), I brewed
like many other extract brewers. I did, however, experiment with rinsing off my
hops when transfering my brew to the primary. I felt that this was the cause:
by rinsing the hops I was pulling off more oils thereby drawing off more bit-
terness than desired. I was told by the owners of the local homebrew place that
if it were indeed hop bitterness, this should be less noticeable over time.
Well it's been about 4 months, and I tasted the cream ale this weekend. The
bitterness was almost entirely gone, and the cream ale was very nice and creamy
(tasty too!), the wicked still was bitter, but not as bad as it originally
was. I am almost sure (sorry about my unscientific method) that the problem
was with the rinsing of hops and not my water, equipment, or my choice of
hops (some thought it may be my choice of hops, but I've always used Brewer's
Gold, Cascade, Fuggles, Willamette in other brews and never had a problem. The
only thing I've done differently in those breww that I did not do in another br
ew was rinse the hops. Therefore, I believe the method was the problem.
There was also a note about rye today (4/24/95). I have brewed an extract rye
ale using no rye malt, but using rye flakes in much the same manner that an
oatmeal-stout brewer (from extract) would make an oatmeal stout. I put
about 10-15 ounces of rye flake into the steeping specialty grains, and I was
very pleased with the results. It imparted a nice dry palate to the pale ale
recipe I added it to, and has become a favorite of several friends who have
tried it. I had the usual problems (gunks up the strainer which allows some
flaky residue to get into the boil pot, but no harm done; more inconvenience
than anything).
Basically what I did as put the rye flakes into the steeping specialty grains
and steeped the whole lot for 30 minutes at 160 degrees F.
___________ Phil Miller
/ \ Dept. of Economics
/ ______ \ University of Missouri, Columbia
/ / \ \ Internet: c616063 at mizzou1.missouri.edu
/ / \____\ c616063 at showme.missouri.edu
| || | |--\ /--/ "If he got hit by a train, I'd back over him
| || | |()/ \__ again in my car." Jimmy Piersal on Jerry
| || | |()\ \ Reinsdorf
| |\__/ |__/ \__/ "I don't like all this sex on the telly! I mean
\ \ ____ I keep falling off!"
\ \_______/ / Graham Chapman from a Monty Python's Flying
\ / Circus Episode
\___________/
Mizzou Tigers Basketball 14-0 Big-8 champs 93-94
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 07:41:56 -0600
From: k-jones at ee.utah.edu (Kelly Jones)
Subject: simplified RIMS
In light of recent postings regarding the difficulty of cleaning RIMS
heating elements and larger-sized RIMS, I'd thought I'd desscribe my recent
experiences with a simpler RIMS system.
I've wanted to implement a RIMS for some time, but haven't found the time
or $ to put it together. I was watching the owner of a local homebrew
store brew a batch on his SABCO RIMS, when I observed that, according to
the instructions, the in-line heater was used mostly to maintain temp
during the rests (and didn't work that hard at it). Most of the heat for
temperature boosts came from the gas burners.
Now, I've had a magnetically-coupled pump for some time, which I use with a
three-tier, one-burner half barrel system. My kettle is a converted keg,
with a false bottom cut from a piece of perforated stainles sheet. A SS
tube, bent so that the tip is about 1/4" from the bottom of the kettle,
allows for wort removal. A recycled gas water heater element is the burner.
To operate this as a RIMS, I simply run the drain tube into the pump inlet,
and pump the wort back up to the top of the grain bed (through the opening
in the top of the kettle). There is no electric heating element, no
temperature control, nothing but a kettle, burner, and pump. When I want
to do a temperature boost, I simply turn on the gas burner, and monitor the
temperature at the top of the grain bed.
To demonstrate the effectiveness of this system, I brewed a batch of Wit
last week. I doughed in about 16# of grain, which was 52% pale malt, 21%
white wheat, 21% rolled wheat flakes, and 6% wheat malt. Mash thickness was
about 1.6 qt/lb. I doughed in to 40C for a 30 min glucanase rest, did a 45
min protein rest in the 48-52C range, raised to 60C for 45 min, 70C for 15
min, and mashed out at 80C. Temperature rise with the burner on was about
1.0 - 1.5 C per minute, so boosts generally took less than 10 min.
Remarkably, the temperature held fairly constant during the rests; a blast
from the burner every 10-15 minutes kept the temperature fairly steady. At
no time did the mash stick, despite being 50% wheat. In fact, the flow
through the pump was so fast, I had to throttle it back somewhat to avoid
splashing/turbulence. There was no scorching of the wort, however, when I
removed the false bottom afterwards, I noticed that there was maybe 1/8" of
proteinaceous material coagulated on the bottom of the keg. I do not see
this as a problem.
In short, I have implemented a RIMS without the complications of an inline
heater and temperature controller. This system gives me most of the
advantages of a RIMS (quick temperature boosts, uniform temperature, no
stirring) without much of the complication. If you have a kettle (w/false
bottom) and a pump, you're in business. I will probably eventually add the
inline heater and controller, but I've found that what I have has enabled
me to "ease into" RIMS.
Kelly
Return to table of contents
Date: 24 Apr 1995 14:21:33 U
From: "Manning Martin MP" <manning_martin_mp at mcst.ae.ge.com>
Subject: Siphon Aerators
Keith Royster, with respect to siphon-tube aerators, correctly points out:
>The interesting point of all of this is that the higher up the tube you
>place your hole, the greater the pressure difference and thus the more >air
will get drawn in (and the better the aeration of your wort!).
However, from this you can also see that the lowest pressure within the
siphon is at the top of the bend, above the upper (source) vessel.
Obviously, placing several holes at this location will impair the operation
of the siphon, as the wort on the source side will be free to flow back from
whence it came. In fact, if the air inlet holes are placed at any point
above the bottom of the upper vessel, the siphon will stop before the source
vessel is emptied. When the level of the holes and the level of the wort in
the source vessel match, the pressure at the surface of the wort and at the
air inlet holes are equal and atmospheric, and there is no longer any force
to drive air into the wort stream, or the flow of the siphon!
The sub-atmospheric pressure inside the siphon hose is also responsible for
causing CO2 to evolve from fermented beer when racking, whereupon it collects
at the upper bend and slows the siphon flow.
Martin Manning
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Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 16:40:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: "John C. Schmitz" <schmitjc at musc.edu>
Subject: sterile bottle caps
What is the best way to sterilize bottle caps? (boiling, bleach solution,
B-brite or other) I am about to brew a strong ale and would like to age
it a while. Somewhere is the attic of my mind I remember
reading that some sterilization methods effect the lining of the cap. Any
thoughts? TIA
John
schmitjc at musc.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 18:29:29 EST
From: "Harralson, Kirk" <kwh at news.roadnet.ups.com>
Subject: NA alternatives
Several people have asked recently about making non-alcoholic beer.
The only response I've seen involves driving off alcohol by heat, then
using artificial carbonation. I seem to recall that, by definition, a
non-alcoholic beverage must be <= .5% alcohol. I question if this
would be a hard constraint for a homebrewed alternative. I think
there is a threshold for alcohol content that triggers the cravings
for people with dependencies, but I don't know what that threshold is.
For the people who just don't want to get drunk, a very low gravity
beer may be a good alternative (particularly if you aren't set up to
keg yet). An additional incentive for this would be the reduction in
calories. A friend of mine made the "Belgian Driving Beer" from the
book by Rajotte (?), and it was surprisingly very good. You could
probably drink these all night with very little effect. I don't own
the book, so I can't forward the recipe. However, if I wanted to brew
a very low alcohol beer, that is where I would start. Does anyone
else have experience with this recipe/style? I would be very
interested in other peoples comments.
Kirk Harralson
Bel Air, Maryland
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 14:13:43 MDT
From: exabyte!smtplink!guym at uunet.uu.net
Subject: PhillChill Phittings
Since I posted a request a few weeks ago asking what size copper tubing to
use with the Phillchill Phittings, I thought I'd post my impressions of the
things. I think they're great! The directions call for "at least 25 feet"
of 3/8" o.d. copper tubing but I used 50 feet. My beer will be so cold
after running through that, it'll be an ice beer. Well, down here in the
Confederate States of America, it'll be more like bath water in the summer.
Anyway, I shoved the 50' of copper tubing (minus nearly 3' I used to
construct a copper racking cane for my half-barrel kettle) into a spare
garden hose and coiled it around my bottling bucket. The whole operation
took maybe 30 minutes. All of the needed fittings and clamps were included
and the instructions were quite clear. I did a trial run with water to
check for leaks and there were none. Another simple product that works
well, much like Jack's Easymasher (another gadget that I am extremely
pleased with!). Anyway, I'd highly recommend it to anyone considering
making a counterflow chiller.
--
Guy McConnell /// Exabyte Corp. /// Huntersville, NC /// guym at exabyte.com
"So Barmaid bring a pitcher, another round of brew..."
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 04:24:01 EST
From: ramsey at tccbbs.com
Subject: Lost newsletters
I see that I'm not the only one that was dropped from the list with
out a word! I've missed this place!
I missed mailing #1706 - #1713 which I'm assuming are the ones that had
the discussions about the herb mead/beers and non alcoholic beer
questions that I posed. Thanks for the 2 people that answered in e-mail
I didn't miss your suggestions! :) I've had no luck as of yet getting
the back issues. If anyone would have the back copies and would forward
them through e-mail I would be ever grateful.
It's time to get brewing!
Cheryl Feucht
Massillon, Ohio
Ramsey at tccbbs.com
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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:16:08 +0200
From: Fredrik.Stahl at mathdept.umu.se (Fredrik Stahl)
Subject: Gelatine in slants
In HBD #1714, Andy Walsh writes:
>On boiling gelatine.
>I tried to make up some cultures for yeast slants on the
>w/e. As Dave Draper (and others) have recommended
>gelatine as an easily available replacement for agar
>in this process, I gave it a go.
<snip>
>Result? The unboiled
>tubes solidified without problems at room temperature,
>the sterilised ones would not solidify unless put in the
>fridge.
>Conclusions? Do not boil gelatine. I am no chemist, so
>maybe the proteins are already "denatured" and can not
>be further degraded, but I am convinced that boiling the
>stuff does something to stuff up its setting properties.
>How on earth can others use gelatine for yeast slants?
>or, Help Dave, what am I doing wrong? Maybe I bought
>a bad pack? ;>)
>In the meantime, I'm off to buy some agar.
I use gelatine without any problems, about 12 teaspoons per litre. I boil
the wort for about 15 mins. and dissolve the gelatin in the hot liquid. I
then put it in small glass jars and sterilize by steaming in a big kettle.
(I just put the jars on a plate in the kettle and add a little water. I do
not immerse them in the boiling water.) I have had no problems other than
that the gelatin liquifies above 25C, so the slants have to be kept below
that.
I made a test to find out how much gelatine to add. The result was that all
of the jars solidified but more gelatine gave a "harder" media (of course).
There was no difference in the critical temperature at 25C, though.
Andy, are you sure your room temperature was low enough? If so I can't
explain why it didn't work for you. Agar is not an option for me because of
the price (more than 100 $ for 1 kg, and no smaller packages available).
/Fredrik.Stahl at mathdept.umu.se
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:11:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Art McGregor <mcgregap at acq.osd.mil>
Subject: Mash Starch Conversion/GOTT Cooler for sale (VA/DC Area)
Hi All!
I've brewed about 6 all grain batches and have a few questions on the
mash process. I do single infusion mashes in a 7 gal Gott cooler, use a Phils
Phalse bottom, and sparge with a Phils Sparger (whirly gig). During the mash
we're concerned with pH and starch conversion. The runoff is supposed to be
recirculate until clear (10-30 min) before the iodine starch test is done. My
question is when using a cooler and doing single infusions mashes, how do I
recirculate the runoff without constantly taking the cooler lid on and off
(which cools the mash) to recirculate? If the runoff is not recirculated
quickly, but collected for a while, the mash water level drops below the
grainbed, and I recall reading that makes the mash pH go up. Is this true?
Also, by draining a lot of the liquid before recirculating increases the
chances of a stuck sparge. So, how do I recirculate the runoff, without
cooling the mash too much, or not draining the mash level too far and not
raising the pH of the mash? The only methods I see are:
(1) Manually intensive (draining, removing lid, pouring in runoff, closing
lid, draining more, etc. and lots of heat loss) until runoff is clear.
or
(2) Have a very thin mash (mash in with 1 1/2 to 2 qts water/lb of grain),
and draining large amounts of the runoff before recirculating.
or
(3) Using a recirculating pump and running till clear
I am open to suggestions. TIA
**************
Gott Cooler for Sale (Local VA/DC interest)
I asked a co-worker to pick up a 10 Gal GOTT Cooler from Builders Square 50%
closing sale in Manassas, VA. Turns out I was out there on other business, so
I picked one up myself. I found out on Monday that he bought one for me too
:^| , so I have one for sale. It's brand new, still in its box, 10 Gallons,
all for $21 ($20 plus $1 tax). Private email for this. BTW, as of Friday
there was only 1 GOTT left at the Manassas store, down from 8 that
donbrew at aol.com posted last Wed.
Good Brewing :)
Art McGregor, (mcgregap at acq.osd.mil) Northern Virginia, USA
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 06:26:54 cst
From: "J DUDLEY LEAPHART" <JDLEAP at ccmail.monsanto.com>
Subject: Re: black dog hops
In HBD 1713, Dale Moore asks about what type of hops are used in Black
Dog Ale. At the brewery in Bozeman they use Cascades exclusivley on the
Black Dog. I'm not certain what is used in Black Dog that is contracted
out, which IMHO is not nearly as good as the brew from Bozeman.
Dale, if you can't find a recipe for BD, contact me and I'll ask one of
my friends who used to work at the brewery. Hope this helps.
Dudley Leaphart
Billings, MT
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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:50:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Joseph E. Santos" <jesantos at WPI.EDU>
Subject: Color Wheel?
Question?
Since my subscription has not been deleted I must be doing OK :)
I have been brewing for a few years and have yet to find a reference for
the SRM standards other than using the color unit calculations. Are there
any? I have never entered a competition so I don't know alot about
the actual judging of color.What do all the judges use during a
competition? To become the most knowledgable brewer I think it's
important to be able to describe brews in detail. Does anyone know if
there is a color wheel for determining color or does everyone just
compare beer to beer without a standard. If there is no such device, I
offer this suggestion without any claim to patent :<) for any motivated
person who has the time to develop a tool which would be of great
assistance to me and many homebrewers. I figure a color wheel could be
made from a transparent piece of plastic with the color gradients and SRM
numbers written on it along with the applicable beer styles. Any help
would be appreciated.
Thanks,
DR J
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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 05:46:53 MST-0700
From: "Dave Ebert" <DNE at Data.HSC.Colorado.edu>
Subject: Kirk
OK Kirk. You got me to bite big time! Paybacks!!
Dave
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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:15:59 -0500 (EST)
From: I Gelman <igelman at smtplink.mssm.edu>
Subject: Heating of gelatin
Text item: Text_1
I noted the submission of Andy Walsh from Sydney regarding his
inability to get boiled gelatin to set.
Indeed, gelatin breaks down quite easily when boiled. Moreover, if it
has already set and you want to remelt it, it will not set. One way I
have used gelatin in yeast growth medium in the lab is to microwave
the gelatin solution for roughly 5 minutes. Microwaving is ideal for
sterilization as it kills microorganisms and even spores rapidly,
without the side-effect of long-term heating (which not only breaks
down the gelatin, but also destrys many heat-labile labile vitamins).
Unfortunately, this process requires a microwave oven, which are
fairly ubiquitous in the States. One other note if you microwave:
kepp an eye on you heated solutions during the microwaving as they can
often froth over. To remedy, simply stop the microwave oven when you
see the froth rising, let the solution sit for a minute or two, and
then continue.
Cheers!!
*******************************
Irwin Gelman from New York City
igelman at smtplink.mssm.edu
*******************************
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:41:57 EDT
From: " Robert Bloodworth ZFBTO - MT0054" <debaydr9 at ibmmail.com>
Subject: low and no alcohol beers
There has been some talk on the digest about producing alcohol free beers at
home. The problem with distilling off the alcohol is that the aroma compounds
in your beer will also be removed as azeotropes with the water-ethanol you
distill from the beer. Commercial breweries use semi-permeable membranes to
remove the alcohol, but these are not 100% effective and some flavor components
are also lost. In the US, some of these components are replaced with synthetic
flavor additives. Here in Germany, this is "verboten" by the Rheinheitsgebot.
Some researchers at the University of Dortmund have found a way around this by
inventing a process to selectively remove the flavor components from a beer.
The beer is then dialysed to remove the alcohol, and the original flavor
components readded to the beer.
Basically, the beer is passed through a column containing an adsorber resin.
This resin is made up of highly porous polystyrene beads with a very large
surface area. The flavor compounds in the beer adsorb onto the surface of the
resin and are concentrated there.
The alcohol is then removed from the treated beer, either by dialysis or
perhaps by vacuum distillation.
A small amount of this alcohol is then used to elute (i.e. wash) the flavor
compounds from the surface of the adsorber resin. This concentrated "essence of
beer" is then added to the alcohol-free beer.
The result: Flavorful, very low alcohol beer according to the Rheinheitsgebot.
Adsorber resins are available from the major producers of ion-exchange resins
for those interested in trying this. E-mail me for more information.
Prost,
Bob Bloodworth
Cologne
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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 10:20:21 EDT
From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma)
Subject: RE: dark grains again/beer talk
Hi All,
In HBD#1712, Dave Sapsis writes:
>What I'm getting at, and I think may have been the origin of this
>thread in the first place: Black Patent malt is dangerous stuff. It is very
>easy to overuse it, both as a coloring agent (in Viennas, brown ales, etc.)
>as well as a flavoring agent (porters and such). It has a very concentrated
>burnt character to it that can make its way into delicate beers (such as a
>Vienna) as well as completely swamp the flavor of more assertive beers
>(porters, stouts).
I could not agree more. Recently, I judged stouts at a fairly large regional
competition. There were 12 beers in the flight, *7* of which were so dark
they were absolutely impermeable to light. All seven of those beers had that
unmistakable burnt, acidic, harsh flavor from black patent malt, which
dominated and detracted from the flavor profiles of the beers.
After the flight, I discussed this with one of the other judges on the panel.
The style guidelines for dry stout read "Black, opaque..." when describing
the color, I think brewers read the word "black" and conclude that large
amounts of black patent malt should be used. As Dave so rightly points out,
black patent has a very strong flavor, and can easily dominate the flavor
of even assertively flavored beers like porters and stouts.
>FWIW, I
>have found that using a high Lov roast barlet in lieu of BP has worked well
>for me in darkening brown ales. Although some flavor has come through from
>the roast, it is much less sharp than from my experiences using BP.
A dry stout should have a significant roasted barley character, the recipes
I've seen and brewed successfully typically call for a pound in a 5 gallon
batch. I also use some high Lovibond crystal and a bit of chocolate malt as
well. Any beer with that much roasted barley and some chocolate malt will be
quite dark as it is, *very little* black patent is required to achieve the
black, opaque effect. I use 1/2 cup of BP, which is roughly 1/8# in a 5
gallon batch, the beer comes out black as ink, and has the requisite roasted
malt flavor without the burnt, acidic harshness. I second Dave's advice,
go easy on the black patent.
Cheers,
Jim dipalma at sky.com
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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 08:35:17 EST
From: guyruth at abq-ros.com
Subject: This is a test
I am testing to see if the problem with attached files is fixed on my
BBS. If successful the Spring Thing results will follow.
============================ Automated Message ============================
There was a file attached to this message on the Bulletin Board System.
This file attachment has been routed in subsequent messages.
============================= End of Message ==============================
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:36:57 -0400
From: PatrickM50 at aol.com
Subject: I'm all wet!, .Z files
Ok, Ok friends! You can all put your water pistols down now! I think
everyone by now (except CGEDEN!) has corrected my post re: his question about
whether the "non-Jack, PBS" archives exist and where to get them. (Conclusion
: no one is saying and/or no one knows). My apologies to CGEDEN. It was not
a flame, but a misguided attempt at education. Now please excuse me while I
go dry off.
Oh, BTW. Several posters have mentioned using the "get" command to
automatically uncompress .Z archive files. Just wanted to point out that
this will not work if you are using online service providers like AOL which
don't give you access to unix commands - they just download the file as-is.
Hence you do need an uncompressing utility like "gunzip" that I mentioned in
an earlier post.
Pat
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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 9:06:05 MDT
From: Norman Pyle <npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM>
Subject: Warm Ferments/SNPA hops/The 'Bot
Ian Bishop (is it me, or have we gained several Ians lately?) writes:
>I am in a situation where continual temperature control is not
>economically viable. Therefore I usually end up fermenting at quite
>high temperatures and live with some of the more unusual flavors.
>
>Would I gain any benefit from obtaining liquid yeast cultures? Are
>there any which have a particularly high heat tolerance or which enhance
>the flavors created at these temperatures?
Ian, liquid yeast cultures have made a large impact on the quality of my
beer, high temperature ferments or not. I believe I know of a couple of
yeasts from Wyeast that would perform well a bit warmer. One is the Belgian
White yeast, which I believe would be a fine yeast for other Belgian styles,
and even some not-so-Belgian styles. It seemed to just hang in there for me
in the range of 66-68F (19-20C) - I believe it would work well in the mid
20s C, maybe much warmer. Also, the Wyeast London ESB yeast really is
unhappy (drops out of solution) in the low 60s F, so I'm guessing it would
prefer warmer climes. An obvious guess would also be the Wyeast American Ale
yeast, which is a very clean fermenter. I suspect it will throw some
interesting esters at hotter temps but would remain cleaner than most yeasts.
BTW, you can also try a simple water bath for your fermenter (bucket in a
bucket approach) with some cloth draped over the fermenter into the water.
Evaporative cooling is an amazing thing if your climate is dry enough. Good
luck.
**
Jim Fitzgerald writes:
>I really haven't figured out if they dry hop SNPA at the brewery or not.
>What
>I do know is that it takes a dry hop in my secondary of about 3/4 to 1 oz per
>5 gallons two weeks or so before kegging to get that wonderful cascade aroma
>in my pale ale. I have also had other people respond to the old post stating
>the same thing. This could be due to the fact that us home brewers can't
>really
>get the freshest hops available (e.g. the aromatic oil content has been aged
>out of them) and simply finishing with older hops will not do...hence the dry
>hop is needed also.
Jim, they don't dry hop SNPA. Also, I disagree that we homebrewers can't get
the freshest hops available. Try Just Hops, or maybe HopTech. I think
you'll get much better hops than you get from your local retailer.
**
Gee, I hope this post doesn't cause the robot to yank me - ouch that hurts!
Dave Ebert, it was a joke!!! Don't get a knot in your shorts!
Norm
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:11:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: gellym at aviion.persoft.com (brewing chemist Mitch)
Subject: .z vs .Z vs .gz
This is not strictly brewing related, but is enough so because it involves
people downloading brewing related material.
In HBD1714, PatrickM50 at aol.com refers to
> Windows-friendly unzipping utility for .z files called "gzip.exe" at
> "prep.ai.mit.edu" in directory /pub/gnu. The self-extracting file to ftp is
> actually called "gzip-1.2.4.msdos.exe" but it will rename itself "gzip-1.exe"
gzip is an excellent compression utility, but unless the .z files in question
were misnamed/renamed, gzip'ed files will have a .gz extension.
Files with a .z extension are compressed with the 'pack' utility, as opposed
to .Z files which are compressed with the unix 'compress' utility. Both
utilities have their advantages which I will not elaborate on in this forum.
gzip has about the best compression ratio of the three, and that is what I
generally use.
However - the gunzip utility *will* decompress both .z and .Z files.
In the end, I suppose people would get gunzip and uncompress .z files and it
would work just fine, but I needed to point out that .z files were not
originally compressed with gzip. Thanks for your patience.
So yeah, grab gzip. GNU rules !
Cheers,
Mitch
- --
-- Mitch Gelly -- owner/brewmaster of the ManOwaR nano-Brewery
software QA specialist, unix systems administrator, Usenet admin,
zymurgist, BJCP beer judge, president of the Madison Homebrewers
-- gellym at aviion.persoft.com -- QC is OUT, QA is IN ! Deal with it.
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 08:31:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Willits <willits at camelot.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Question about a Counter-flow Chiller, HBD Subscription
Hi,
I have just completed my counter-flow wort chiller. It was very
easy to construct and cost around $30. It is of the copper-tubing-inside
-of-a-garden-hose variety. It uses 25 feet of 3/8" copper and 22 feet of
5/8" garden hose. The fittings were made with Y shaped garden hose
splitters, a 3/4" hose to 1/2" pipe adaptor, and a 1/2" pipe to 3/8"
compression fitting which seals around the copper tubing. For anyone who
would like more detailed plans, please e-mail me.
My question involves what sort of tubing to use as an input line
to the chiller. Eventually, I would like to plumb the chiller directly
into a valve on the bottom of my 10 gallon pot; however, I have not had
a chance to have this valve welded yet. So, in the meantime, what do
others use for input tubing? The tubing I am using now is proline
tubing from the local hardware store (tasteless, odorless, FDA approved)
and works great for siphoning and kegging, but I can't find any
information about it's temperature rating. I would appreciate any ideas.
My other point was about the automated subscription drops I read
about in a previous digest (I think yesterday's). I am a dedicated
reader of the digest, but I post very infrequently. However, I do
respond to many questions through private e-mail. It seems as if there
should be some way to periodically check if people like me still want to
be subscribed before we are cut off.
Mike Willits
willits at camelot.stanford.edu
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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:42:09 -0400
From: mbunster at hibbs.vcu.edu (Mark Bunster)
Subject: beer bottles
Hey all--
I have a decently-sized collection of commercial brew bottles from around
the world gathering dust in my parent's house. A fair number are imports,
especially from Germany. These predate the micro revolution here, so the US
bottles are not overly exotic. However, the time I've had them means some
are probably no longer being made.
Anyhow, if you're a collector, please email me PRIVATELY (I autostore my
digests, not reading them day-to-day) at the address below. Thanks!
Mark
|||||
Mark Bunster | I hear they're good at
parking cars
Survey Research Lab | I hear they want to be like we are.
Virginia Commonwealth University | Pere Ubu
Richmond, VA 23284-3016 |
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 12:08:29 EDT
From: CGEDEN at NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU
Subject: Enough already
My very short posting about archives for the "PBS of homebrewing" seems
to have led to some misunderstanding. I was referring to the private,
by-invitation-only, "advanced"-brewers-only, commercial-free, list that
Jay Hersch referred to a couple of weeks ago. My tone may have sounded
ironic, bordering on the disrespectful towards the gods of homebrewing,
but the question was sincere. Granted that the gods have the right to
maintain a private list, I was curious whether we mortals could read
their postings at a public archive site or if it too exclusive for that.
Sorry for the confusion.
Chris Geden
Mortal, brewer
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:34:41 -0700
From: froeh at trojan.naa.rockwell.com (Michael Froehlich)
Subject: Hose Beer
Help, I have been attacked by the awful effects of hose beer and I
can't see. Well, actually that is not really the case but it could
be. Anyway, I have hose beer. I believe the cause is from using
bleach and not rinsing enough. I usually use iodophor but ran out
when I needed to transfer my Wit (TM) beer. Is it possible to save this
or should I (shudder to think) drink it with nose held? Please send
any info on saving this beer. Thank-you.
/*
Michael Froehlich |~~| O O
froeh at thor.naa.rockwell.com | |) "Cheers!" >
|__| \__/
*/
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:13:40 -0700
From: KozukaShi at eworld.com
Subject: more on clear glass
Thanks to all who responded here and privately to my question concerning
clear glass and mead. Overwhelmingly the responses state that clear glass
and mead go well together. It was interesting to learn that many folks
usually fill one clear bottle with beer at bottling time, just so they can
easily observe what is happening to their batch as it resides in bottles.
Others place a clear bottle of brew on shelves with those from previous
batches for side by side comparisons of color and also for simple visual
enjoyment.
Today I'm preparing to rack a batch of Cream Ale from plastic fermenter to
glass secondary and it strikes me that I usually work in a somewhat sunny
kitchen and the carboy is clear glass. I understand lots of folks brew
outdoors (I hope to get there one day!) and they, like me, often use a glass
primary - likely also clear. Are we putting the whole batch in jeopardy of
being sunstruck while it is concentrated in this one big clear bottle? Would
a shift to brown glass carboys contribute to quality? Would it make sense
to consider using some kind of carboy coating or a cover to keep the light
out?
John Grivetti sends
Zohar: She is a Be'er, a well and an explanation. . .
KozukaShi at eworld.com
Return to table of contents
Date: 25 Apr 1995 12:44:12 GMT
From: "Dan Wilson" <DWILSON3 at EMAIL.USPS.GOV>
Subject: Robots, Bottles, Plastic, and Hops
My first post! I'm so proud. Let's hope I don't foul it up. I
suppose with the robot watching our every move, us lurkers are an
endangered species. Which allows me to segue into topic one. It
seems to me that cleaning up the mail list could be easily done
using periodic "are you still there and interested" messages. If
no response or bounced, give 'em the hook. Pressuring folks into
making submissions to stay on the list will result in all sorts
of innane drivel. (Like this, right?) Soapboxing complete.
I noticed a question about a week ago regarding how to tell if a
plastic bucket is indeed food grade. Either I slept through the
response or there wasn't one. I'd like to repeat it and beg the
indulgence of the group if I indeed did sleep through it.
Question two: Is there any significant difference between the 12
oz brown bottles available at your local Home Brew store and
those that Sam Adams comes in? I've been soaking the labels off
and having at it with those.
Question three: I've seen some comments here and there about hops
from Boston Brewing, I'm afraid I missed the boat on this one.
What is (or was) the deal? How can I get in on it and is it worth
bothering with?
Private Email works for any of the above questions if you see
fit. And the address is DWILSON3 at email.usps.gov. I await the
collective wisdom.
Dan
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Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 13:54:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: ROSS at MSCF.MED.UPENN.EDU
Subject: O2 barrier caps
Date sent: 25-APR-1995 13:50:48
I have been considering buying some oxygen barrier caps for botting
some barleywine and mead, since I expect to keep these bottles around in
storage for some time and would like to prevent oxidation. I would be
interested in knowing:
- How do these caps work?
- Do they really work and are they worth using for long-term storage?
- What is the proper means of sanitizing these caps?
--- Andy Ross ---
ross at mscf.med.upenn.edu
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1715, 04/26/95