FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Blowoff bucket sanitizer (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  temperature control (DONBREW)
  Re: Souring/Dumplings ("Glyn Crossno")
  Relgion and Homebrew (David and Carol Smucker)
  Raspberry and cherry beers (Robert.Fike)
  CO2 lines and keg systems (Jim Busch)
  alcohol=drug=evil (Not!) ("Keith Royster")
  God and Beer (Russell Mast)
  Carboys, where? (Domenick Venezia)
  Beer and Babies (Scott Howe)
  Fix for CO2 Leaks (cisco)
  Aeonbrau et al. (Don Put)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: 6 Jul 95 15:02:00 -0500
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Blowoff bucket sanitizer

Dion writes:
>I use a blowoff tube down into a bucket of sanitizer solution.
<snip>
>What do other people use and why?

I use water, yes, water.  Ideally, boiled (to sanitize) water. Why?
Because if the temperature changes and any liquid gets sucked up into the 
carboy, I'd rather it be water than iodophor or bleach.  Let me ask you
this question: unless you plan to let it sit there for a year, why would
you want to put sanitizer in your blowoff bucket?  Nothing is going to
crawl up the blowoff hose and into the fermenter, so why worry?

Al.

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Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 07:26:06 -0400
From: DONBREW at aol.com
Subject: temperature control

Hello fellow control freaks,
    I have recently devised  (stumbled upon) a simple & cheap & easy to
assemble very low parts count circuit.  It is capable of high and low temp
control.  I intend for it to control the temp. in a warm/cold box it also
could be used in a RIMS type setup.  Features programable hysterisis, high
warning, low warning, maybe ten parts (nothing fancy), cost so far under $10,
most parts available at Radio Shack.
   I am not educated nor smart enough to embellish this thing, anybody with
time, inclination and training is invited to take a looksee and offer
suggestions.  So far my plan is to submit the design to the public domain.
 If this thing can be slicked up some I may be willing to build and sell on a
one of basis.
   Anybody interested in developement of this thingy can E-mail me for
details.  I have not got around to schematic yet, but it should be quickly
done.

Brewing Onward,
Don
donbrew at aol.com
 

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Date:          Fri, 7 Jul 1995 06:41:19 CST
From: "Glyn Crossno" <CROSSNO at novell2.tn.cubic.com>
Subject:       Re: Souring/Dumplings

This is the address, I do not think he is on line at the moment.

     Aeonbrau
     Head Start Brewing Cultures
     256 Cherokee Ridge
     Athens, GA  30606

Great yeasts also.

Wit's up,
Glyn


Crossno at novell2.tn.cubic.com
Nothing's foolproof. Fools are too ingenious.

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Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 07:39:46 -0400
From: smucker at use.usit.net (David and Carol Smucker)
Subject: Relgion and Homebrew


In HBD 1775 Kenn Goodrow, East Texas State University commented:

>......Well, I just 
>want to voice my frustration with the puritanical archetypes that 
>dominated the simplistic thoughts of so many of our fellow-Americans.  
>This country was founded by men (and women, I'm sure) who brewed, and 
>who, yes, consumed theirs and others' creations.  And these men and women 
>were religious, most attending services every week and many writing on 
>their religious convictions.  So ironic that in this "modern" society we 
>have so many who gasp at the thought of homebrewing as if it is illegal 
>as well as satanic.
>
>Reactions?  I am wondering how many of you are religous, believe in God, 
>etc., and homebrew?

Well, I am in the believe, attend church and homebrew group.  

Personally I don't see any conflict between these concepts but here in
Knoxville many of my Baptist friends seem to.  None have called in the BATF
yet but some days I wonder if they will.  Some in this east Tennessee area
known for its moonshinning history (you can still get it in the hills around
here) seem to think that making homebrew is like making moonshine. (Maybe it
is in their eyes, just a matter of strength.)  Many of these good Baptists
here continue to kill themselves smoking, to each his own.

I have lots of other friends, at work, etc. whom very gladly will drink up
my homebrew.  

Around a good part rest of the world, and I have spent a lot of time in
Europe and Asia there doesn't seem to be as much conflict between brew and
religion.   We Americans seem to have done this completely to ourselves.

I am of course leaving out some of the major relgions of the world with the
above statement because they are even more restristive than things here in
the South.

Dave Smucker, Knoxville, Tennessee  <smucker at use.usit.net>
  
  David E. Smucker, Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
     <smucker at use.usit.net>


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Date: Fri, 07 Jul 95 08:50:42 EST
From: Robert.Fike at ccmail.gsfc.nasa.gov
Subject: Raspberry and cherry beers

     I would like to make a Raspberry Wheat and a Cherry Wheat beer.  I 
     will be useing extract kits and adding hop plugs in the boil.  Maybe 
     even adding .5oz to 1oz hop plugs for dry hopping. 
     
     My question is on the preparation/addition of the fruit.  I have been 
     told that the fruit should be added after the vigorious fermentation 
     has stopped.  Does anyone agree?  Or if you have a alternate 
     suggestion, please let me know. 
     
     How should the fruit be prepared?  I was going to put it in those 
     muslin bags.  Sould I boil the fruit for both the nasties and to 
     soften it up then put the cooled fruit and water into the fermentator? 
     Or give the fruit a ride through the blender (cherry pits removed)?
     
     If anyone has any suggestions or ideas please let me know and I'll 
     post the results.
     
     TIA
     
     Rob Fike
     
     ROBERT.FIKE at CCMAIL.GSFC.NASA.GOV
     
       


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Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 09:50:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: CO2 lines and keg systems

Several posters have recently stated how they dont need to have
a CO2 line through the refrige:

<As for getting a CO2 line into the fridge: I find there is no need to do 
<this at all.

I personally like to engineer things to work for me, so I much prefer
to have hard plumbing and fittings where I need em.  I also have a lot
of kegs online at any time and I like to maintain the dispensing 
pressures where I want em.  How to put a line in?  Drill a hole through
the side of the 'frige, its that easy.  Be sure to size the drill bit
to just fit the OD of the CO2 line and force the hose through the hole.
On the inside, split this line into a quick disconnect for counter-pressure
filling, and a 2 or 3 way gang valve for shut off.  Out of the gang
valve, it is nice to have other quick disconnects so I can quickly 
convert from corny kegs to sankey kegs.  I also have a setup like this
on my carbonating frige, line through the side, splits to shutoffs for
carbonating at different atmospheres of pressure.  Out of this I intend
to split a line through to my storage frige through a inline regulator
to reduce pressure for dispense.  This way I can use one 20 lb tank
to carbonate and dispense kegs that dont fit in my normal kegerator.
BTW, my carbonating frige is set to 31F so I can also store yeast in
it.  Its also convienent to have quick disconnects that have a liquid
line on em.  This is useful for purging and filling empty kegs with 
CO2 prior to filling, through the liquid out line. 

Jim Busch

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Date:          Fri, 7 Jul 1995 10:00:13 +0500 ET
From: "Keith Royster" <N1EA471 at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us>
Subject:       alcohol=drug=evil (Not!)

Kenneth K Goodrow <goodrow at orion.etsu.edu> voices his frustration 
with "the puritanical archetypes" that view beer/alcohol as satanic.

> Drugs -- there were a few messages a while back on the <snip> drug
> status of alcohol <snip>.

I missed most of those posts since our computer network went down for
almost two weeks (BTW if you responded to my request for info on RIMS
pumps [prices/brands/model#/pumping rates] and your message bounced,
please try again now, thanks).  I would like to voice my opinion that
alcohol IS a drug.  The question is, "So what?"  "Drug" does not
equal "Evil"  I beleive that there are different levels, from "Good"
to "Evil" for drugs, depending on their pro/con ratio to society. 
For example, aspirin has many pros and (practically) no cons, so it
is viewed as very beneficial to society, but crack cocain has a very
low ratio and is thus viewed as very evil.  The problem is what
society views to be the pros and cons VS what they actually are. 
Alcohol has a bad rap in some circles because they perceive cons that
(in our opinion) do not exist and do not see the pros that we beleive
exist.  Similary, I beleive that alcohol and marijuana have very
similar pro/con ratios, yet society as a whole clearly disagrees.

I read an article in a back issue of our brew club library recently 
(can't remember which one).  There was a story about a guy who, after 
prohibition had ended, was employed to improve the image of beer.  He 
did some research on our founding fathers and their brewing/drinking 
habits and then published his findings in such a way as to associate 
drinking beer with patriotism.  Within 6 months, a large number of 
grocery store chains (can't remember the exact amount, but it was 
significant) started selling beer again.  

The point is, there is a large gap between the perceived pro/con
ratio for alcohol and the actual ratio, and that needs to be
changed.  We can do that by simply giving these beer haters a
different image from the beer drunken slobs that they associate
alcohol with.  By simply being good, upstanding citizens and not 
hiding the fact that we brew and enjoy beer (and savor the flavor 
responsibly) I beleive we can slowly change the way some parts of 
society view alcohol.  <OK, I'm stepping down off of my soapbox now>

Keith Royster

+---------------------------------------------+
| The law has done its best over a period of  |
| years to turn beer into something criminal  | 
| and harmful; but the outcome has been that  |
| beer has turned sections of the law into    |
| something criminal and harmful. - Anonymous |
+---------------------------------------------+ 

+------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+
| Keith Royster, E.I.T.        | The law has done its best over a period of  |
| Environmental Engineer       | years to turn beer into something criminal  |
| NC-DEHNR / Air Quality       | and harmful; but the outcome has been that  |
|    (704) 663-1699            | beer has turned sections of the law into    |
| Royster at mro.ehnr.state.nc.us | something criminal and harmful. - Anonymous |
+------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+


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Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 09:41:39 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: God and Beer


Kenneth K Goodrow writes:

> This country was founded by men (and women, I'm sure) who brewed, and 
> who, yes, consumed theirs and others' creations.  And these men and women 
> were religious, most attending services every week and many writing on 
> their religious convictions.  So ironic that in this "modern" society we 
> have so many who gasp at the thought of homebrewing as if it is illegal 
> as well as satanic.

I don't find too much irony in this, actually.  Admittedly, I have a very
different perspective on the whole thing, but most of the first settlers 
to this country were Calvinistic, and Calvin's influence still pervades much 
of society's attitudes.  (Not the kid with the stuffed tiger, btw.)  It is,
to me, a little surprising that there were fewer admonitions against drinking
in those days.  One of the main reasons beer was brewed was that you couldn't
trust the water.  Today, you can.  (Unless you a John Burker, but we can save 
that for later.)  

A lot of it, IMO, is related to what I call the anti-pleasure principle.  The 
idea that if you're having fun with something, there must be something evil 
about it.  (This is the main reason, IMO, for continued drug prohibition in
this country.  If you want to talk about that, e-mail me privately.)  I often
see homebrewers, especially those from the US midwest, feel like they have to 
defend their craft by assuring themselves and others that they're not just 
doing it to get a buzz, that there's more to it than that.  This defensiveness
arises largely from Calvinist influence, which simply hadn't 'gotten to' beer
by the time this country was founded.

As we're all aware, I'm sure, religion is a hot-button issue, and I want to 
make it clear that I'm not -blaming- anyone for anything.  I'm simply saying
the "tradition" that anti-beer people are following is an intellectual one
rather than a behavioral one.  (That is, their forebears drank beer, yeah, but
had the same kinds of ideas that lead them to eschew beer.)

>  Now, I am religious, attend church every week, etc. 
> ad infinitum (not trying to toot my horn), but there just isn't a 
> Biblical proof against alcohol (a proof-text yes, but proof no) and its 
> consumption.

Again, you and I come from different perspectives.  I have the jaded view that
one can find evidence to support -any- argument in the Bible.  Nonetheless,
I agree that you have to really stretch it to get an anti-beer message.  
Not to knock anyone, but the Calvinist tradition in this country is not a 
Biblically-based tradition.  (Also worth noting, religious people don't have
a monopoly on these ideas, they pervade secular society a good deal.)

Bible trivia time.  "Strong drink" was a cyser, made with apples and honey.

> Reactions?  I am wondering how many of you are religous, believe in God, 
> etc., and homebrew?  What are your thoughts?  I know this is not a 
> technical part of homebrewing, but holistically, the 
> spirituo-psychological aspects are part of the whole.  What's your view 
> of the gestalt?

Actually, I'm also curious about the religious demographic of homebrewers, 
and how religion influences your appreciation and understanding of beer.
(I want some joker to post something like "Well, being a Lutheran, I love a
good Weizen, but don't care much for Stouts...")

For the record, I'm a "strong" atheist.  I don't believe there is a supreme
being, and I don't believe that the existence of a supreme being is a 
possibility realistic enough to consider.  I'm also a humanist.  I believe 
in doing everything I can to help my fellow human (or humyn?  huperson?  
huperoffspring?) to live a better life.  I think this world is the only one
we get, so I try to make it as nice a place as I can.  Further, I believe 
that this life is the only one I get, so I should make the most of it.  (No,
I refuse to paraphrase a Stroh's ad here.)  Because I could die permanently
at any time, I feel that I should make each moment special if I can, and not
waste my time worrying about past opportunities lost.  And, while I plan for
the future becuase I hope to live there a long time, I don't sacrifice the
present in the name of the future, because the future might just not show up.
(I recognize that many of these beliefs about time, etc. are shared by many
people of different religions, and I don't mean to denigrate them.  I do feel
that atheism is an important part of my belief system and I think that it is
related to my understanding of 'the moment'.)

How does this influence my brewing?  Well, for one, I savor every stage of
the process.  (As do others, of course.)  Each step is special, and the
beer is a good thing all the way.  Obviously, I have the final product in 
mind, but I don't let that overshadow the fun of the process of brewing.  
I'm less patient in this regard than a lot of brewers, I don't feel like 
having an absolutely miserable afternoon, only tempered by the anticipation 
of good things to come.  Of course, some of the more demanding aspects of 
brewing which require patience I really enjoy, so I greet them with glee.
I've had several brewers comment that I stir the beer a lot more than other
brewers, and I think that's related too, but I'm not really sure in what way.
I think when a batch turns out less-than-optimal, it's not a major tragedy as
it can be with others.  Sure, maybe this beer was 2 years in the making, but
it was a -fun- two years, so if it's not the best, that's too bad.  When I
have a good batch, of course I'm elated, and I tend to drink them up pretty
quick.  With the less than terrific batches, I keep them around for a lot 
longer than some other folks, in the hopes that they get better and, well,
I have enough space for a few bottles and I have enough empties I don't have
to rush through them.

Sheesh.  That's long.  I hope this isn't too far off-topic.  I think we're 
adult enough to have a thread involving religion without it degenerating into 
a mudfest.  (Also, let's keep this to the religion-brewing relationship.  If
you want to talk about stuff not related to brewing, I'm all ears, but not on
the HBD.)

 -Russell

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Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 07:46:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>
Subject: Carboys, where? 

Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 Kenneth K Goodrow <goodrow at orion.etsu.edu> asks:

>O.k., who is it that is buying up all the carboys at the Corning glass 
>outlets? ... This seems like a great place to shop for carboys, but doesn 
>anyone else have any ideas on where to get these glass jobbys for cheap?

Check your local Yellow Pages under "Bottles" or "Bottle Supply".  Here
in Seattle we can get 5 gal carboys from a place called Olshen's Bottle
Supply for $11, and 7 gal ones for about $15.

>Reactions?  I am wondering how many of you are religous, believe in God, 
>etc., and homebrew?  What are your thoughts?  I know this is not a 
>technical part of homebrewing, but holistically, the 
>spirituo-psychological aspects are part of the whole.  What's your view 
>of the gestalt?

Please, please, PLEASE!  Do not let this turn into a thread!

Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia at zgi.com




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Date: Fri, 7 Jul 95 08:38 PDT
From: howe at appmag.com (Scott Howe)
Subject: Beer and Babies

Nick Franke (NAFRANK at pop03.ny.us.ibm.net) stated, while asking about 
Alcohol Removal From Beer:

>        We have a friend who recently became pregnant, and
>has developed cravings, real or imagined, for beer.
>Obviously for health reasons alcohol is out.

  This is covered in an article a few months back in a cool Beer magazine
called All About Beer.  The author gave some history about what used
to be called groaning Beer, which was given to pregnant women during Labor.
He also quoted some studies saying that Beer during pregnancy IN MODERATION
(as usual) is fine.  The general consensus on "IN MODERATION" meant no more 
than one Beer at a sitting.  He also stated that the health of the woman
improves with moderate consumtion, so: Obviously for health reasons alcohol
(IN MODERATION) is IN.

  I have a friend who had similar cravings, and bless her heart, had a Beer
in her fourth month and LOVED it.  I think she had a Simpatico, so it wasn't
high in alcohol (or taste, for that matter).  She had her baby a few months 
ago, and mother and child are doing fine.


             Here's to your (and her) health!
              --Aubrey Howe, III
                howe at appmag.com
                Santa Barbara, Ca.
                "The Brewcaster"  of Brewcaster's Brewpub.

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Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 08:08:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: cisco at tabasco.ccit.arizona.edu
Subject: Fix for CO2 Leaks


> Date: Thu, 06 Jul 95 09:24:00 MST
> From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil>
> Subject: CO2 Questions
> In general, I find the CO2 gear for soda kegs to be kinda leaky--it seems to
> require a lot of fussing and I personally don't trust them to hold gas well.
>  I feel safer putting the charge on the keg, then removing all the lines and
>  shutting off the CO2 tank at the main valve.  It's not the poppets on the 
> keg that are suspect so much as all the connecting junk.

It's true that CO2 connections for the typical cornelius keg setup are prone
to leaks but if you wrap ALL threaded connections before assembly with
plumbing teflon tape you will never have any leaks again. I leave my CO2
lines connected and turned on all the time and my CO2 tanks last forever.
Remember that if you ever take apart any connections (for things like
filling jars with hops with CO2 before freezing) that you re-wrap
the threaded connection with fresh teflon tape every time. I lost an entire
tank of CO2 only once (took only a few days and it was 20lbs) because
I was lazy and didn't re-wrap the connector I had taken apart with fresh
teflon tape.

John 'Cisco' Francisco


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Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 13:11:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Don Put <dput at cello.gina.calstate.edu>
Subject: Aeonbrau et al.


"Miller Eric" <Miller.Eric at mail.ndhm.gtegsc.com> wrote:

>I used "lacto-capsules" from Aeonbrau to sour a Wit.  Worked well.  

>I don't have Aeonbrau's latest address.  The owner, Dr. Brian Nummer,
>recently moved to Athens, GA to open a brewpub.  If anyone has the new
>address, please post it.

Aeonbrau
256 Cherokee Ridge
Athens, Georgia  30606
(no phone number on the flyer)

I've used a few of his strains with great success.  There's also another
company called The Yeast Culture Kit Company that has quite of few
interesting strains, although I don't see any lacto bugs listed in their
catalog.  Their address/phone/email is:

The Yeast Culture Kit Company
Daniel S. McConnell, Prop.
1308 W. Madison
Ann Arbor, MI  48103
(800) 742-2110
(313) 761-5914
email: daniel.s.mcconnell at med.umich.edu

Either of these suppliers carry a wider selection of strains than are
currently available in smack packs.  

Disclaimer:  YMMV, dealer prep not included, etc.

don
(dput at cello.gina.calstate.edu)

PS - Any of you net folks going to be up in Portland for the conference
sponsered by BrewingTechniques?  If so, please let me know; I'd like to
hoist one with you.



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1776, 07/08/95