FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Wyeast 3944 Results ("Sieja, Edward M")
  Re: Heat Exchanging. (hollen)
  Hop Growing Texts? (Ken Schroeder)
  User Error??? (Russell Mast)
  Colorado Pub/Micro's ("THOMAS STOLFI")
  Etched bottles & B-Brite (Ray Gaffield)
  Colorado Pubs/Micros ("THOMAS STOLFI")
  Re: pH Meters (August 09, 1995) (nm1)
  RE- WEB page for Portland (Prometheus Products, Mark Smith,PRT)
  Macintosh Brewing Softwar (Prometheus Products, Mark Smith,PRT)
  Re: full-boil kettles, chillers, Chimay yeast (Gary McCarthy)
  pH Meters (A. J. deLange)
  Breckenridge in Buffalo (ChasHal)
  Portland, OR Web (Tony McCauley)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 09 Aug 95 08:35:00 CDT
From: "Sieja, Edward M" <emsieja at hsv23.pcmail.ingr.com>
Subject: Wyeast 3944 Results



Jay Reeves asks about Wyeast 3944 (Belgian White) at temperatures in the
range 60 - 68.

I have used this yeast with great success in the 60 - 65 degree range this 
prior
winter.  The early fermentation was vigorous (first 2 - 3 days) and then it 
slowed
considerably, but never stopped fermentation.  This was a tripel with an OG 
of
1.084.  When racked to secondary after a week, the SG was 1.062.  It then 
took
another 4 weeks to finish in this temperature range.  The beer turned out 
great
and well worth the wait.  This wort was well aerated and I pitched the dregs 
of
a 1.5 liter starter, so I cannot fault initial conditions to the slow 
ferment.

Since then I read where Pierre Celis was quoted stating that this yeast goes
to sleep below 70F.  I have since used this yeast in the 73 - 76 degree 
range with
a Belgian strong ales with an OG of 1.064 and the results were somewhat 
faster
ferments, but still slow when compared to standard ale yeasts (which never 
seem
to go more than two weeks) on 1.045 - 1.055 ales.  The results in this 
higher range
were also very good.  I could not spot any off flavors (e.g. zero banana). 
 I have
yet to brew the exact same recipe in the different ranges, but I am 
convinced that
the higher range is more suitable for this yeast strain.

I would like to try a primary fermentation in the 70 - 75 range followed by 
a
secondary fermentation in the 60 - 65 range, but will have to wait for the 
weather to
help out a bit.  I have an attic enclosed closet which stays cooler than the 
house
during the winter months which is perfect for cooler fermentations.

Ed Sieja
Huntsville AL


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Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 07:38:31 -0700
From: hollen at vigra.com
Subject: Re: Heat Exchanging.

While your experience may be immersion chilling from boiling to 75F in
15-20 min, mine certainly was not.  It takes over an hour to do it for
me.  I have 30 feet of 3.8" copper in my chiller.  The first drop to
about 90F happens in the first 20 min or so, but the last drop to 75F
takes the rest of the over an hour.  I think your experience may be
unique.  How about it?  How many out there can duplicate Doc's
experience without stirring?  I will bet not many.

dion

- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080     Email: hollen at vigra.com
Senior Software Engineer     Vigra, San Diego, California

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Date: Wed, 9 Aug 95 08:21:10 PDT
From: kens at lan.nsc.com (Ken Schroeder)
Subject: Hop Growing Texts?

I planted some rhizomes a mere three months ago. Unbelievably, one 
Cascade has already produced a good crop of cones. Unfortunately,
with the most recent heat wave (90F+), some of the cones have begun 
to turn brown. I took this as a sign that harvesting should begin.
I looked at some of this first harvest and found a lack of lupulin
glands (some, but not many). This got my curiosity up, how can I 
grow even better hops, more cones with more lupulin glands. Does 
anyone know of any books on growing hops? I already have Garetz's
book and find that it is lacking the amount and detail of hop growing 
information I am looking for. The monster text type book is just fine,
or just yer' average how to grow book will do. Any web sites with 
relavant inforamtion also helps. Private email to kens at lan.nsc.com works 
great. I'll summarize/post what information I get on hop growing 
literature.

Hoppy Brewin'

Ken Schroeder
Sequoia Brewing 
  

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Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 10:36:28 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: User Error???


> From: Btalk at aol.com
> Subject: CPBF user error?

me >  "often "user error" says to me that the device 
me > was not as easy to use as it should be."
> 
> Russell, must be you have never used a counterpressure bottle filler.

Btalk (_if_ that's your real name), must be you make unwarranted assumptions.

> They are not that easy or convenient to use. 

That was my point.

The better CPBF is easier and more convenient to use.  If, by nature, any CPBF
will be difficult and inconvenient, this should be accurately reported.  The
Zymurgy article may have fallen short of this, mistaking ease of correct use
with good results, but I wouldn't characterize them as deceptive.  (Though I
would perhaps characterize them as naive, which is not something I want in a
brewing magazine.)

Still, if a product is difficult to use correctly, but easy to use incorrectly,
one shouldn't take too much umbrage at a reporter thinking they simply don't
work as advertised.

> Good results come with a little experience.

Perhaps I'll give them a try someday, but I'll keep in mind that bad results 
come with too little experience.

> It is my own fault for not paying attention.

But YOU MADE the filler yourself.  If you sold me one and didn't warn me about
it, it would be your fault for not warning me.  (OF course, if you sold me one
and _did_ warn me about it, it's _my_ fault for not heeding your warning.)

> I prefer the $.20 hose filler for gift or club meeting beers.

I prefer to just chug from the carboy, but I try to get some in bottles first,
because it's much easier to bottle BEFORE drinking a gallon of homebrew than
AFTER.

> Re: lager yeasts and wheat beer. 
> Traditionally the lager yeast is introduced when priming for bottling to aid
> in conditioning. Not that you really need to use it...

Perhaps a side-by-side comparison is in order.  I make good wheat beer without
it, but maybe I'd make better wheat beer with it...

 -R

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Date: 09 Aug 1995 14:45:14 GMT
From: "THOMAS STOLFI" <OBCTS at CWEMAIL.ceco.com>
Subject: Colorado Pub/Micro's


     Hello All:

     I will be attending a seminar in Denver next month and will have a few
     extra days to hit some Micro/Brewpubs.  If anyone has any info on
     places to go in the Denver/Colorado Springs/Fort Collins/Boulder area
     please send me private email at  OBCTS at CWEMAIL.CECO.COM.  Thanks in
     advance.

     Tom Stolfi
     OBCTS at CWEMAIL.CECO.COM


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Date: Wed, 9 Aug 95 14:57:53 -0500
From: ray_gaffield at il.us.swissbank.com (Ray Gaffield)
Subject: Etched bottles & B-Brite


Thanx to all who responded to my question about B-Brite ( or  
pseudo-B-Brite) etching some bottles I soaked.

I received a few private responses that said that the bottles aren't  
etched but have a deposit which can be removed by soaking in vinegar.  
So if you should have a similiar problem give it a try . I haven't  
tried it yet, but I will.

Thanx,
	RAY

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Date: 09 Aug 1995 15:12:15 GMT
From: "THOMAS STOLFI" <OBCTS at CWEMAIL.ceco.com>
Subject: Colorado Pubs/Micros


     Hello All:

     I will be attending a seminar in Denver next month and will have a few
     extra days to hit some Micro/Brewpubs.  If anyone has any info on
     places to go in the Denver/Colorado Springs/Fort Collins/Boulder area
     please send me private email at  OBCTS at CWEMAIL.CECO.COM.  Thanks in
     advance.

     Tom Stolfi
     OBCTS at CWEMAIL.CECO.COM


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Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 16:36:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: nm1 at keene.edu
Subject: Re: pH Meters (August 09, 1995)

I purchased a pH meter from Worm's Way Garden and Homebrew stores for 
$69.95 (part#PH520). (Disclaimer: blah, blah, blah) 
It has automatic temperature compensation and has a range of 1.0 - 13.0.
It works very well, if you don't mind calibrating before use (solutions 
available).
They have several available within your $$ range.  You can call 1-800-274-9676
 to order or for the store nearest you (they have 4 throughout the country).
Hope this helps.
Nate<nm1 at keene.edu>


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Date: 09 Aug 95 20:57 GMT
From: D6164 at AppleLink.Apple.COM (Prometheus Products, Mark Smith,PRT)
Subject: RE- WEB page for Portland

Attn: Homebrew's Digest
SentBy: Tim Sherburne
 
Date   8/9/95
Subject    RE- WEB page for Portland,
>From   Tim Sherburne
To Homebrew's Digest
 
RE: WEB page for Portland, OR
Try accessing Portland, Oregon through www.city.net. CityNet has got pages for
major US cities, in addition to some of the major cities around the world.
 
You will be able to find a link to the McMinnamin brothers' Web server (!) in
CityNet's pages on Portland, or try www.mcminnamin.com (I think).
 
There may be other breweries around with home pages or servers, but I'm not
sure of their addresses.
 
Cheers,
 
Tim Sherburne
 


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Date: 09 Aug 95 20:58 GMT
From: D6164 at AppleLink.Apple.COM (Prometheus Products, Mark Smith,PRT)
Subject: Macintosh Brewing Softwar

Attn: Homebrew's Digest
SentBy: Tim Sherburne
 
Date   8/9/95
Subject    Macintosh Brewing Software
>From   Tim Sherburne
To Homebrew's Digest
 
Macintosh Brewing Software
There's been some discussion about the lack of brewing software for the Mac
recently, a subject that seems to pop up every couple of months.
 
I'm both a Mac software engineer and a homebrewer (wow, two for the price of
one!), and I'd be interested in putting together a small project to fill the
needs of other homebrewing Mac users.
 
I have seen the ad for the Mac software in Zymurgy and I agree that it's cost
is rather steep. Granted, I haven't actually ran the software, and if it
washes bottles for me, then I'd say that US$40 is well worth it!
 
I was thinking of something that is more along the lines of a shareware
application that cost around US$5 to cover my expenses and has the "barebones"
feature set. If users want something fancy, then they can spend their money on
the app that is advertised in Zymurgy.
 
Anyway, I'm interested in any thoughts others may have. If you've got
suggestions or would like to participate in developing, send me some mail to
me at "timothys at hood.uofport.edu" and we'll discuss it off-line.
 
Cheers,
 
Tim Sherburne
 
 
 


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Date: Wed, 9 Aug 95 15:51:09 -0700
From: gmccarthy at dayna.com (Gary McCarthy)
Subject: Re: full-boil kettles, chillers, Chimay yeast

In HBD 1803 - Dave Riedel <RIEDEL at ios.bc.ca> says

>begin doing full-boil brews

I assume you mean boiling all your wort rather than doing a super-gravity wort
and diluting?

>Miller suggests a 33 quart enamel-ware kettle as an inexpensive option

You can get an enamel-ware kettle in almost any variety store(ie, KMart) at
this time of year for about $25- $50.  A real good place is an outlet mall
that has a Corning Ware store.  Since I live in SLC, I can go to the Corning
Ware store in Park City (actually it is about 7 miles outside of PC on the
interstate).  I picked up one, it must be at least 25(but it could be bigger)
quarts for about $20.  It also had the metal frame thingie for boiling glass
jars.    I use it as a overflow kettle, some people might find that the wort
causes the enamal to flake.  Corning also has 5 gal glass carboys for $12, but
that was 2 years ago.

>If I do a full-boil, I will need a chiller

Uh, why?  KIS, I always say.  I have been doing a full-mash for 3 years and
want, but do not have, a chiller.  I either use the tub method or put the
boiler out in the snow overnight.

PS Did Ray Ownby (HBD 1794) get his burner from Cabelas?  Let me know if you
are hoppy with it!

Gary McCarthy
gmccarthy at dayna.com


Reality is for those who cannot handle drugs - bumper sticker

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Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 22:15:36 -0500
From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: pH Meters

Harlan Bauer asks about digital pH meters in #1803:
There are several issues that need to be looked into when considering the
purchase of a pH meter for brewing. Brewing applications can be very
demanding for a pH meter. Actually the meter itself is not stresed; it is
the electrode. A brewer wants to check his pH starting with the water and
ending with the bottled beer. Neither of these steps is too hard on the
electrode but during the brewing process he wants to measure the pH of hot
liquids which contain solids and proteins. Thus he needs an electrode which
can withstand high temperatures and which is not fouled by (or can at least
be easily cleaned of) particulate matter and protein. Further, if he wants
to stick the electrode into the mash tun, the fermenter, or the beer
directly he must have an electrode whose electrolyte (some of which must
pass into the sample) is not harmful to the beer or its drinker. Obviously
all these requirements go away if the brewer is willing to withdraw
samples, cool them before taking a reading (this effects the true pH of the
sample) and then discard them. If he is not willing to do this then he had
better be prepared to shell out $150 - $200 for an electrode.

The electronics are pretty much standardized and can be selected on the
basis of size, power requirements, bells and whistles. Handheld battery
powered digital units with ATC (Automatic Temperature Compensation) seem to
go for $250 - 500. Look for an input impedance of 1.E12 ohms or more and
the features and accuracy you want. I personally feel that you should be
able to resolve pH changes less than 0.1 pH but that's one guy's opinion.

Harlan asked in particular about Omega instruments. I have used their
PHH-70 (which is manufactured in England for them). It has served me well
but I am sure that several of Omega's other models and the models of other
manufactureres would have done equally as well so I'm not recommending this
unit particularly.

I will, however, recommend Omega's PHE-4841 electrode which I sort of
stumbled across when the electrode I had been using was out of stock. It is
a double junction glass combination electrode with potassium chloride fill
solution (OK to go into your beer). The reference junction (which is the
thing that causes most problems) is formed where the tip of the electrode
plugs into the body like a ground glass stopper. The electrolyte flows
through the spaces in the roughened mating surfaces. By pulling the top of
the elctrode against a spring the "stopper" is pushed out of the body and
electrolyte floods over the surfaces thus cleaning them of debris. One can
periodically dump the electrolyte, pull back to expose the surfaces and
immerse them in an enzyme based electrode cleaner to remove protein from
both the junction and the sensing bulb. I've had the electrode I'm using
now for about 11 months and while it has picked up about 11 mV drift the
span is still as good as the day I got it.

It is my personal feeling that a pH meter is like a microscope in the sense
that an inexpensive instrument is more of a curiosity than a useful tool.
An inexpensive meter is still a couple of hundred dollars or more and if
the thing is useless to you that's a couple of hundred dollars wasted. If,
on the other hand, you spend $400 - $600 on a good meter and your brewing
doesn't benefit from it that's $400 - $600 wasted. So ask yourself what you
are going to do with a pH meter and how you think it might improve your
beer. If all you want to do is get familiar with the concept of pH
measurement you can experiment with test strips or the little pocket meters
(under $100) which are about as accurate as the strips.


A.J. deLange   Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel at interramp.com



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Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 22:19:33 -0400
From: ChasHal at aol.com
Subject: Breckenridge in Buffalo

My understanding is that they will be open in the theater district downtown,
they won't be brewing there just selling their products.

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Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 23:22:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: afmccaul at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Tony McCauley)
Subject: Portland, OR Web

I had a number of responses to my query about Portland, Oregon beer related Web
sites.  Here's a list of the suggestions:

<URL:http://www.teleport.com/~dgs1300/index.shtml>
http://www.yahoo.com/Regional/U_S__States/Oregon/Portland/
http://pekkel.uthscsa.edu/beer.html
http://www.teleport.com/~edl/orbeer.html
www.city.net. CityNet
www.mcminnamin.com

I publish this list without having tried to browse any of them.  The last one
on the list came with the comment "I think" attached to it.

I also want to apologize to Shawn Steele and the AHA.  The list I couldn't find
at the AHA Web site was due to an inept operator on this end.  I took another
shot at the AHA's site, http://www.aob.org/aob/brews/brewlist.html and found
what I couldn't find before.  Sorry guys.

My thanks go out to all of you who took the time to respond.

        Tony McCauley -- afmccaul at ilstu.edu

 .

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1804, 08/10/95