FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Foam and kegs (Dick Hinkle)
  re: No-stir immersion chiller... (pbabcock)
  Mill's ("Dan Listermann, Cinci OH")
  More on B-Brite (harry)
  Re: Heat Exchanging. (hollen)
  Brewpub/Micro Planner (Jeffrey B. Bonner)
  High Temperature Pumps? (Jeffrey B. Bonner)
  Women brewers (Suzette Smith)
  Re: #1(2) Homebrew Digest #1803 (August 09, 1995) (Stephbrown)
  Improving Body While Maintaining OG ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
  Why no HEAD?? ("mike spinelli")
  TRUB 7 Competition, Durham, NC (Mike Lelivelt)
  optimum temperature for bottles? (Rolland Everitt)
  Temperature Control (Slyboyy)
  Pierre Rajotte's yeast book (WindRiver)
  Vibration for Yeast, Clarifying, Easy Mashers (XDCHRISTIAN)
  temp control (DONBREW)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed,  9 Aug 1995 09:14:48 GMT
From: dick.hinkle at manhattan.com (Dick Hinkle)
Subject: Foam and kegs

 As a HBD lurker for the past several months and a recent convert to
 kegging I find that I am still confused by the explanations of how
 to prevent too much foam from coming out of a keg set up.  I probably
 know enough about fluid mechanics to be dangerous.  My problem is that
 it seems like the pressure drop from the keg to the spout is always
 going to be the gage pressure in the keg.  Talking about using more
 or less hose or different id hoses will not make any difference.  The
 velocity of the beer in the tube will change so that it causes a
 pressure drop in the tube that is equal to the gage pressure less
 any slight drop for raising the beer from the keg surface to the tap.

 A simple explanation of what we shoot for to reduce foaming would
 certainly be appreciated.  Are we looking to reduce the Reynolds
 Number to the point we have laminar vs turbulant flow of the beer?

 TIA
 Dick

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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 08:42:14 EDT
From: pbabcock at e-mail.com
Subject: re: No-stir immersion chiller...


  Government warning:
  Pleased be advised that the following could be construed as a flame.

When DocsBrew (Chiropractor?) began speaking of 'thermochemistry' my eyes
wandered onward to the next article. Knowing a wee little bit about fluid
dynamics, heat transfer, and thermodynamics was enough to convince me that
this was little more than a bit of scum floating on the surface of the pond of
knowledge.

Then Dion replied with his no-stir immersion experience. I'm afraid I gotta
back you up, Dion: Before my enlightenment, I, too, tried to use an immersion
chiller without disturbing the wort. I think a dip in a cold water bath would
have taken less time.

Don't move from your present location, Doc: like the 'Mystery Spot' in
Michigan's Irish Hills, you appear to be living in a realm of physical
abherration. I'd sell tickets, if I were you.

Next?

Flame shields up! Dive! Dive!

  Pat Babcock
  respond to: pbabcock at oeonline.com


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Date: 10 Aug 95 09:34:42 EDT
From: "Dan Listermann, Cinci OH" <72723.1707 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Mill's

John Glaser wrote an artical 8/8/95 about the BrewTek mill and I would like to
clarify a remark he about the Philmill.  He said that Philmill had no bearings
and indeed the early Philmills did not have bearings.  However more than a year
ago they were upgraded with strip bronze bearings and almost six months ago they
were further upgraded with sintered bronze bearings.

Dan Listermann


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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 10:18:54 -0400
From: hbush at pppl.gov (harry)
Subject: More on B-Brite

        Another note on the B-Brite "etching" thing. I too have noticed a
change in the B-Brite formula. It now suds up more like a detergent than
before. I liked it better before.
        HOWEVER, that's an aside. There's been some talk that what was
originally thought to be etching is actually a deposit- do you folks rinse
after the B-Brite? I've seen somewhere that you don't have to but have
never believed it. I always rinse with hot water after using B-Brite (I'll
risk those few cooties), and especially do now that it does this suds
thang. Whenever I've let a B-Brite solution just evaporate, it leaves a
major white film/crust- very unappealing for a cleaner/sanitizer. So far,
with hot water rinsing, never an infection (knock wood).


Harry




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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 07:48:54 -0700
From: hollen at vigra.com
Subject: Re: Heat Exchanging.

Due to some replies I have gotten personally on this subject, maybe a
good plan would be for people with experiences similar to Doc's
(i.e. short chilling times without stirring) to submit temperature
readings of their input water.  Mine here in San Diego is usually
around 65-70F which I know certainly accounts for the extremely long
time to come down from 90F to 75F.

dion

- -- 
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x119       Email: hollen at vigra.com
Senior Software Engineer     Vigra, Inc.  San Diego, California

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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 95 8:48:02 PDT
From: Jeffrey B. Bonner <t3345 at fel1.nfuel.com>
Subject: Brewpub/Micro Planner

I'm seriously interested in opening a brewpub or a micro-microbrewery.  I've
heard about the book that Bill Owens has out for $125.  Has anyone purchased 
this and found it useful?  I've purchased the Brewery Planner from IBS and am
really wondering if I should spring for Owens book also!?  Anyone?
- --
Jeff
Office: (509)375-8741 
Fax:    (509)375-8006/8402
email: jbb at fred.nfuel.com (work)
       nukebrewer at aol.com (home)

It often shows a fine command of language to say nothing.

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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 95 9:00:05 PDT
From: Jeffrey B. Bonner <t3345 at fel1.nfuel.com>
Subject: High Temperature Pumps?

Does anyone have a line on high temperature pumps (i.e. those that could be
used to pump hot wort from the kettle to heat exchangers and/or to pump the
hot water, 150-160F, to the mash tun)?  Perferably (sp?) in the affordable 
range that a homebrewer can aford.  The flow rate should be somewhere around
5 gal./min.  Thanks in advance!
- --
Jeffrey B. Bonner 

Office: (509)375-8741 
Fax:    (509)375-8006/8402
email: jbb at fred.nfuel.com (work)
       nukebrewer at aol.com (home)
       

It often shows a fine command of language to say nothing.

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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 12:11:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Suzette Smith <SSMITH1 at drew.edu>
Subject: Women brewers



                                        Date:     10-Aug-1995 11:46am EST
                                        From:     Smith, Suzette
                                                  SSMITH1
                                        Dept:     FAC/STAFF
                                        Tel No:   (201)-408-3208

TO:  Remote Addressee                     ( _in%HOMEBREW at HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM )


Subject: Women brewers

Greetings!

faye at plainfield.bypass.com (Drea) wrote
>Why so few gal-brewers? 

I have often been the only woman brewer at gatherings ranging from small 
to large. For the most part I have been accepted as an experienced 
homebrewer, judged upon my abilities to make great beer and meads.

But there always seems to be at least on guy like Russell Mast 
>Honestly---I think it's a rock-boring thread
that can make women brewers (even the subject of women brewers) feel so 
*welcome* (extreme sarcasm).

Homebrewing should remain open and fun for all participants. Attitudes 
like the one expressed above have no place in a hobby where the sex of the 
brewer is irrelevant. (BTW just "saying" the gender of the homebrewer is 
insignificant doesn't mean much if your attitude and actions demonstrate 
something completely opposite.)

Now let's all go have a homebrew.

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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 14:24:21 -0400
From: Stephbrown at aol.com
Subject: Re: #1(2) Homebrew Digest #1803 (August 09, 1995)

Kurt wrote:

>Due to it being an Ale yeast can I go up into the high 60's, or >because
it's a Stout recipe - do I need to keep it colder?

Well, I'll tell you - I brewed a great dry stout at temperatures in the high
seventies-low eighties.  You may not beleive it, but it's true.  It's only
weakness is lack of head retention.  I used the Irish ale yeast (don't
remember the number).  I don't see that you would have any trouble with the
high sixties.

SGB

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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 95 12:48:00 MST
From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil>
Subject: Improving Body While Maintaining OG


Looking over four judges' comments regarding an ordinary bitter
entered in two contests, two recurring themes were "more malt" and
"undercarbonated".  The OG for this beer was about 34 (by design),
and it was bottled with the carbonation level I usually use for
bitters (12 psi condition and serve).  One judge did say the
condition was "ok for style", but everyone seemed to agree it was
low.

1a. I have a question about the "more malt" comments.  Since simply adding 
more malt would raise the OG of the beer, I don't think that
is what the judges intend.  I think their actual complaint is a
mouthfeel issue since overall the flavor was judged 'balanced'.  I
reason one solution is to cut back the pale ale and compensate with 
increased carapils and/or crystal, then balance this change with additional 
kettle hops. Having no further information than the two constraints I 
mentioned (maintain OG and increase body/mouthfeel), I'd like your comments 
regarding my solution or other suggestions.

1b.  Based on my reasoning above, I also conclude an OG=34 ordinary
with an FG=8 that seems watery probably will have to finish at about
FG=12 instead--IOW, a smaller beer will have to generally have a
higher proportion of unfermentables that a bigger beer to retain
some bigness?  Comments?

2. Although the carbonation level of this ale from my keg is
perfect for my taste (I think ALL bottled bitters are way overcarbonated), I 
do wonder what effect the condition in the beer has on its apparent body. 
 Will lower carbonation levels tend to make the beer feel watery to most 
tasters?

NOTE: I didn't use my CPBF for these entries and now, after the Zymurgy 
review of CPBFs, realize I probably sent off entries that may
have been at ~1.5 vol in my keg, but much less at the judges' table.

KRF / Colorado Springs / flemingk at usa.net

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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 15:08:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: "mike spinelli" <paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil>
Subject: Why no HEAD??

    Brew dudes,
The following brew has been in the bottles for about a month, but I'm still
not getting much of a head.
SPECS:
for 10 gals.
6.6# M&F light syrup
6.6# Bierkeller amber syrup
1# weizen 60/40 blend dme
1# light dme
(mashed the following 3 grains  at  150 for 60 min.)
1/2# crystal 40L
1/2# victory
1/2# Carapils
added wort from mini mash to extracts in keg & boiled
4 oz. Hallertau 3.9% 60 min.
1/2 oz. Kent Goldings 4.9% 60 min.
2 tsp. IM hydrated night before added  at  T-10
Wyeast 1056 American in 1500 ml starter (split btwn 2 carboys)
4 day primary  at  70 deg. 10 days in 2ndry
bottled w/ 1 pack Knox geleton in heated (about 140) water per 5 gals.
primed w/ dextrose (8 grams per liter per dave draper equating to 5.25 ozs.
per 5 gals)
OG: 53 FG: 10
   Beer tastes pretty good, almost clear and ruby red in color.
Carbonation is around medium

So why no head?  Too much of a mish-mash of ingrediants?  I added the weizen
dme to *ensure* a good head!  So much for that.
     2 cent collections can begin now.
Mike

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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 15:53:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mike Lelivelt <mjl at email.unc.edu>
Subject: TRUB 7 Competition, Durham, NC


Call for entries and judges for the Seventh Annual TRUB Open
	
			September 30, 1995
		Bull City / Weeping Radish Brewery
			   Durham, NC

Low entry fees - $5 for the first entry, $4 for the second, and $3 for 
each additional entry.

Prizes - $50 gift certificate to BrewBetter Supply, Cary, NC and an 
engraved trophy to the Best of Show winner.  A full case of Samual Adams 
beer, provided by the Boston Beer Company to the first place winner in 
each category.  Second and third place in each category will receive a 22 
oz of Weeping Radish beer and a gross of bottle caps, respectively.

Special consideration for Belgian styles - We will be judging Belgian and 
Lambic style beers in a special closed session the evening before the 
competition.  We will be using Phil Seitz's excellent augmented Belgian 
guidelines.  If you've been disappointed with the judging of your Belgian 
beers in the past, we are hoping to give your beers the consideration 
they deserve.

BJCP Recognized - We support the program.  All stewards and judges are 
assured of accurate recording of their experience points in the database.

Send an e mail to mjl at email.unc.edu with your snail mail address for more 
competition details.

Co-organized by Craig Pepin & Mike Lelivelt

Craig can be reached at <ckp at acpub.duke.edu>, though he cannot response 
to any mail until after August 22.

==============================================================================
     Mike Lelivelt                                          mjl at email.unc.edu
     Dept of Microbiology & Immunology                      home 919-408-0451
     Univ of N Carolina  at  Chapel Hill                    BJCP Certified Judge
==============================================================================



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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 17:35:38 -0400
From: af509 at osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt)
Subject: optimum temperature for bottles?



I am wondering about the best temperature at which to store
newly-bottled brew.  Cooler temps would seem to favor the CO2
going into solution, but warmer temps might favor yeast activity.
The books I have are silent on this topic.  Is there an optimum
temperature?


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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 19:58:39 -0400
From: Slyboyy at aol.com
Subject: Temperature Control

Hello this is my first time posting a message.

Does any one Know of a refrigerator Temperature control unit thats good  to
use in the process of brewing a lager.

Thanks

Michael
slyboyy at aol.com



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Date: 10 Aug 1995 23:16:46 GMT
From: WindRiver at bitstream.mpls.mn.us
Subject: Pierre Rajotte's yeast book

Does anyone out there know the title of Pierre Rajotte's book on yeast
culturing (I believe it came out last year sometime). Any
distributor/publisher info would be greatly appreciated. Send any info you
have to this address. Thanks in Advance.




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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 18:16:35 -0800 (PST)
From: XDCHRISTIAN at CCVAX.FULLERTON.EDU
Subject: Vibration for Yeast, Clarifying, Easy Mashers

Hi HBDer's

I would like to share an observation and I have a few questions.

The last few batches I have placed my Wyeast packs on or near my air
pump which is hooked up to my fish tank.  I have noticed that they swell up
faster.  After pitching it into my starter wort, I have also noticed that 
they are starting faster.  This has only been practiced for the past 6 batches.
It could be that I am getting better packages of yeast; however, the dates
have varied substantially.  Some were quite fresh and some were quite old
(3 months past the date on the pack).  They are usually #1056.  What do you
think about the idea that the vibration is aiding in getting the yeasties going?


I haven't been too concerned about the clarity of my brews until lately. 
Being blind allows me to concentrate on other improvements in my brew.   I
guess it was never bad enough for me to notice!  It tastes great and that is
all that really mattered to me.  The problem is that some of my friends who
I have been turning on to homebrew are concerned about the haze and
sometimes I get the little chunckies.  Their concerns have convinced me to
think about clarifiers.  Would someone be willing to help me out with the
right clarifiers.  I know gelatin, policler, isinglass all work on different 
things like chill haze and proteins...  What I am considering is after primary
fermentation is over (for ales), I would turn the frig down to 40-50F for a
week or 2.  Would this clear my beers with out having to add clarifiers?  Or
is this a bad idea because the beer will be sitting on the trub and dead yeast
too long?

I have recently installed easy mashers on 2 converted kegs.  I have a
problem with the connection between the hose and the spigot.  There is
a ridge on the spigot from the mold which prevents a solid tight seal.
Putting a hose clamp makes it better but not really what I want.  Is this a 
common problem?  Should I just file it down to make it as round as I can
with a file?  Or is there something I'm missing?

TIA

Keith
xkchristian at fullerton.edu
Blind Brewing in Garden Grove CA
When it sounds like it's boiling and it steams like it's boiling, and it feels
like it's boiling (ouch), it is probably boiling!

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Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 21:48:53 -0400
From: DONBREW at aol.com
Subject: temp control

   OOPS, I just found out that all of my attempts at fabricating a "Radio
Shack friendly" temp control have been rendered moot.  The previously
dis-continued "temperature control module" 277-123, has been re-continued at
$19.99.  This module comes with a temp probe and digital readout, range -40F
to 212F (this seems to change by unit or mfg or by year), C or F, sample rate
of 1 or 15 seconds, max and min memory, hi alarm, lo alarm, and control alarm
(read alarm as output).
   You have to add 5 or 6 momentary contact switches to use it.  You can add
either a transistor and relay or an optocoupler and a triac to drive a
refrigerator and or a light bulb type heater.
   I got one of these a year or two ago when they were still officially
dis-continued, either the documentation that came with it was wrong or I
destroyed something in soldering, some of the functions did not work
correctly, I do know that the data in the 1991 "Semiconductor Reference
Guide" is incorrect in reference to the unit I got, but it functions very
well keeping my cold box cold.  I do suggest using the 15 sec. sampling and
place the probe in a jar of water to provide a thermal buffer.  I use the
transistor and relay approach so far.  In using one of theses things remember
that if it can drive an LED it can drive an optocoupler.
   Well anyway, If you can do any tinkering at all this is a good and cheap
temp control, for a do-it-yourself type for <$30.  It is available "Special
Order Only".  Again that is cat.# 277-123.

Don



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1805, 08/11/95