FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Re: New brewery question (Bird)
  response to all-grain cooker post ("Sharon A. Ritter")
  Flouride in water/Irish moss ? (David Oliver)
  Summary of Root Beer Recipies (Mark Peacock)
  1st all grain question(s) (Gerald_Wirtz)
  electronics (blacksab)
  Brewing Systems ("Todd A. Darroch")
  100% wheat affirmation & thanks ("mike spinelli")
  Re: Patrick Higgins - Celis White (Eric Rouse)
  Aluminum (Jeff Renner)
  Giving a stuck batch a kick in the ass? (Mark Kuebeler)
  Sparge Efficiency ("Andrew D. Kailhofer")
  1995 THIRSTY Homebrew Competition (Wolfe)
  Re: Broadway Brewing ("Richard Scotty")
  chiller improvements (Chuck Wettergreen)
  pumpkin ale ("Wallinger, W. A.")
  Enzyme Activity (CCCEF.KHUIZING)
  Syracuse Brew  Clubs? (Eugene Sonn)
  ooops (uswlsrap)
  Erlanger, 800 numbers, gelatin (CGEDEN)
  Tape recorders / Cottonwood brewery (Brian Pickerill)
  Thanks & New Hop ?s (IHomeBrew)
  RE toasting pumpkin (tfields)
  re:Aluminum brewpots ("Matthew W. Bryson")
  Grain Bed Depth in Mash/Lauter Tun (Christopher Beisel)
  wort aeration via air pump (Btalk)
  Diacetyl on pupose ("Robert Marshall")
  Perforated SS Plate (G. M. Elliott)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 22:28:09 MDT
From: roberts at Rt66.com (Bird)
Subject: Re: New brewery question


Hi, all. There wee a few questions on my new set-up:

>>>>> "DAN" == DAN LEE <DAN_LEE at HP-Chelmsford-om1.om.hp.com> writes:


    DAN> I saw your artcile on your new brewery in HBD.  Pretty
    DAN> impressive.  I had a couple of follow-up questions because I'm
    DAN> planning on a new brewing set-up as I scale up to 15 gal boils.

    DAN> - What %extraction efficiency are you getting out of your
    DAN> brewery?
    DAN> - What are you using to hold the 3 kegs at the 3 different
    DAN> heights?
    DAN> - Can you provide more details on how you fabricated the false
    DAN> bottom and the geometry/spacing of the holes in the screen?
    DAN> - Is your mash tun insulated?  Do you have to apply any heat to
    DAN> maintain your mash temp?
    DAN> - What kind of wort chiller are you using?
    DAN> - Did you do any special modifications to the 4th keg which is
    DAN> acting as your primary fermenter?

and
>>>>> "Brian" == Brian Barnett <barnett at slc.unisys.com> writes:

    Brian> Hi Doug,

    Brian> I read your post in the HBD and I have some questions.  I
    Brian> am in the process of converting from partial mashing for 5
    Brian> gallon batches to 10 gallon all grain batches.  I have
    Brian> aquired two 15.5 gallon kegs, 10 gallon Gott cooler, and a
    Brian> propane cooker.  I plan on boiling in a converted keg,
    Brian> mashing in the Gott, and using the other keg as a hot water
    Brian> tank for sparging.  I want to keep everything as simple as
    Brian> possible, which means no pumps or RIMS.  I had planned to
    Brian> use gravity for mashing and sparging.

    Brian> My plan is to have the bottom of my boil pot at about 18"
    Brian> so that I can drain directly into 2 carboys for fermenting
    Brian> (I plan on using an imersion chiller).  This requires that
    Brian> the bottom of my mashtun be at a height of 3.5 ft and the
    Brian> bottom of the hot water tank must be at about 5.5 ft.  This
    Brian> seems to be a little scary having all that hot water
    Brian> perched so high in the air.

    Brian> In you post you stated you had two 3 1/2 foot tall cookers.
    Brian> Do you have a platform to get the hot water tank to the
    Brian> required height, or do you use pulleys?

    Brian> The top of your mashtun must be at about 5.5 ft.  Do you
    Brian> stir and whatever from a ladder or use pulleys at the
    Brian> appropriate time.

    Brian> Please describe your support structures.  In the brief
    Brian> description of my planned brewery do you see any flaws or
    Brian> do you have any advice?


My answers:

System Efficiency:

I don't have the maltster's sheet on the Hugh Baird English 2-row malts
that I normally use, but if we assume an extract potential of 35
(specific gravity shorthand), my system has a potential OG of 88 for a
typical 10 gallon batch. The actual OG is usually around 55, for an
overall system efficiency of 62 percent. It has, however, been as low as
53 percent for one 5-gallon batch that I ground in my old Corona mill
(never again). We must remember that technique (little things, such as
remembering to mash out, duh), temperature control, sparge rate, how the
grain was ground, etc. all contribute to the overall system
efficiency... 

Keg Configuration:

I have a workbench that is about 4 feet tall. I placed the 1 1/2 foot
tall propane cooker on the bench and put the mash tun on it. I placed
one of the 3-foot tall cookers beside the tun, and the hot water tank
sits on it. The bottom of the hot water tank was not quite above the
top of the mash tun, so I raised the hot water tank's cooker about 4
1/2 inches by placing bricks under the cooker's base. I set the other
3-foot tall cooker on the garage floor, and the boil kettle sits on
it. The kettle's top is just below the base of the mash tun. I have a
small step ladder that I use to allow me to reach into the mash tun to
stir & take temperature measurements. I do use a pump to get the
sparege water up into the hot water tank.

Mash tun heat retention:

The mass of the 15.5 gallon SS keg + grains & water provides a pretty
good thermal flywheel: it is only sometimes necessary to add heat to
maintain desired mashing temperatures. However, it only takes a minute
or so to boost the temperature if needed. 

False bottom specifics:

I found a supplier of heavy-duty SS screen material. The screen is about
1/16 inches thick, and the holes are about 1/64 inch in diameter on
about 1/8 inch centers. I asked the supplier to make mine 12 inches in
diameter. 

Wort chiller:

Standard immersion chiller. I made mine out of 50 feet of 3/8 copper tubing.

Primary fermenter keg mods:

None were necessary, aside from removing the tap assembly. A #11 stopper
with air lock fits the bung nicely. 


Cheers,

- --Doug

- -- 

"24 hours in a day...24 beers in a case...coincidence?"

Doug Roberts
roberts at rt66.com


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Date: 11 Oct 95 00:50:07 EDT
From: "Sharon A. Ritter" <102446.3717 at compuserve.com>
Subject: response to all-grain cooker post

James Linscheid posts:

 >I am getting ready to do my first all-grain batch and was wondering 
what size burner to get. Right now, the only readily available burner 
is a 30,000 BTU Camp Chef. Should I hold out for a 100,000 BTU unit? 
I am using a 1/2 barrel keg as my boiler, and will be doing 10 gallon 
batches in the future.<

I recommend going for the extra BTU's.  I recently finished my third 5 gal.
all-grain batch with a 130,000 BTU Bayou Cooker (Barbour International
1-800-736-8028).  It has great low temperature controls and I'm planning on
using the full 130,000 BTU's when the temps start falling this winter (I boil
outdoors). Go for a cooker with good low temp. controls and a high end that will
come in handy boiling 10 gallons.

	Dan Ritter in Grangeville, Idaho
	102446.3717 at compuserve.com




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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 23:00:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Oliver <dwo at slip.net>
Subject: Flouride in water/Irish moss ?

Here in California the govenor is considering making it manditory that 
all city water systems add flouride to the drinking water.  Will this be 
detramental to brewing?  Can I just boil/cool/decant the brewing water in 
advance to remove this-I don't know if boiling will remove flouride.  I 
know it works for clorine.  
  On another note, I've been using 2 tsp of irish moss to my kettle per 5 
gallons. The other day I was leafing through Charlie Papizans "The Home 
Brewer's Companion" and he recomends 1/4tsp per five gallons. My pals at 
the brew store recomend 2 tsp per 5 gallons.  Who's right?  I won't even 
ask whether to rehydrate or not. I'm just wondering if my beers will 
improve if I use the smaller amount of moss or if they will be cloudy as 
hell.
   Hope you can help,
  Dave O
  

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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 95 02:04 EDT
From: Mark Peacock <mpeacock at oeonline.com>
Subject: Summary of Root Beer Recipies

Since half of the responses I received to my request for root beer recipes
were requests to pass along whatever I received, I'll post a summary.

Two Web URLs were suggested.  One was the Root Beer page off of the Brewery
site (http://alpha.rollanet.org/library/RootB.html).  The second was a link
off of the correspondent's home page (http://www.execpc.com/~jkane).

Spencer Thomas and Gary McCarthy suggested using root beer extract.  Mr
McCarthy *strongly* suggested this route.  "Someone may give you a recipe,"
writes Mr McCarthy, "and you can try it, but remember I warned you.  What I
ended up with was an undrinkable liquid that smelled like very dirty socks
steeped in boiling water for a few weeks."  Mr Thomas suggests "'Zafar's' or
some such.  It's a small (2-3 oz?) bottle with a yellow label, and is made
in Louisiana."

James Lindberg sent along what can only be called the Root Beer FAQ.  Too
long to post here, the FAQ was written by Steve Mercer who warns "This
document contains mostly unattributed excerpts from articles in the Home
Brewers Digest. I have shamelessly cut them apart and edited them to suit my
own purposes."  If someone wants to post this on a beer-related Web site,
I'll send it along.  Mr Mercer's FAQ tells us everything ever wanted to know
about root beer -- including the following recipes:

:ROOT BEER RECIPES:
:
:These 3 recipes come from:  The Scientific American Cyclopedia of 
:Formulas, edited by Albert A. Hopkins {query editor of the "Scien-
:tific American"} New York, Scientific American Publishing Com-
:pany, 1921
:
:Root Beer--1.--To 5 gal. of boiling water add 1 1/2 gal. of molas-
:ses.  Allow it to stand for 3 hours, then add bruised sassafras 
:bark, wintergreen bark, sarsaparilla root, of each 1/4 lb., and 1/
:2 pt. of fresh yeast, water enough to make 15 to 17 gal.  After 
:this has fermented for 12 hours it can be drawn off and bottled.
:
:2.--Pour boiling water on 2 1/2 oz. sassafras, 1 1/2 oz. wild 
:cherry bark, 2 1/2 oz. allspice, 2 1/2 oz. wintergreen bark, 1/2 
:oz. hops, 1/2 oz. coriander seed, 2 gal. molasses.  Let the mix-
:ture stand 1 day.  Strain, add 1 pt. yeast, enough water to make 
:13 gal.  This beer may be bottled the following day.
:
:3.--Sarsaparilla, 1 lb.; spicewood, 1/4 lb.; guaiacum chips, 1/2 
:lb; birch bark, 1/8 lb.; ginger, 1/4 oz.; sassafras, 2 oz.; 
:prickly ash bark, 1/4 oz.; hops, 1/2 oz.  Boil for 12 hours over a 
:moderate fire with sufficient water, so that the remainder shall 
:measure 3 gal., to which add tincture of ginger, 4 oz.; oil of 
:wintergreen, 1/2 oz.; alcohol, 1 pt.  This prevents fermentation. 
:To make root beer, take of this decoction, 1 qt.; molasses, 8 oz., 
:water, 2 1/2 gal.; yeast, 4 oz.  This will soon ferment and pro-
:duce a good, drinkable beverage.  The root beer should be mixed, 
:in warm weather, the evening before it is used, and can be kept 
:for use either bottled or drawn by a common beer pump.  Most peo-
:ple prefer a small addition of wild cherry bitters or hot drops to 
:the above beer.


:OLD FASHIONED ROOT BEER
:[This recipe can be found in the Cat's Meow recipe book.]
:"Use strong bottles with patent stoppers or tie corks in securely. 
:Use a stone crock or granite vessell in which to let drinks stand 
:while `working.' Fresh roots from the woods are always preferable 
:to dried herbs. Select a cool place in which to store the drinks; 
:the longer they stand in a warm place after bottling, the more 
:effervescent they will become! When filling bottles, fill to 
:within an inch of the top.
:1 cake compressed yeast 
:5 pounds sugar      
:2 ounces Sassafras root     
:2 ounces Juniper Berries   
:1 ounce Hops or Ginger Root 
:1 ounce Dandelion root 
:2 ounces Wintergreen  
:4 gallons water
:Wash roots well in cold water. Add juniper berries (crushed) and 
:hops. Pour 8 quarts boiling water over root mixture and boil 
:slowly 20 minutes. Strain through flannel bag. Add sugar and 
:remaining 8 quarts water. Allow to stand until lukewarm. Dissolve 
:yeast in a little cool water. Add to root liquid. Stir will. Let 
:settle then strain again and bottle. Cork tightly. Keep in a warm 
:room 5 to 6 hours, then store in a cool place. Put on ice as 
:required for use."  The Fleishman Company, Excellent Recipes for 
:Baking Raised Bread, 1912
:
:ROOT BEER
:INGREDIENTS:
:5 qt water
:1/4 oz hops
:1/2 oz burdock root, dried
:1/2 oz yellow dock root, dried
:1/2 oz sarsaparilla root, dried
:1/2 oz sassafras root, dried
:1/2 oz spikenard root, dried*
:1 1/2 cup sugar  1/8 tsp yeast, granulated
:PROCEDURE:  Simmer herbs in water for 30 minutes. Add sugar, stir 
:to dissolve, and  strain into a crock. Cool to lukewarm, add 
:yeast, and stir well. Cover  crock and leave to ferment for about 
:an hour. Bottle and store in a cool  place. Makes about one gal-
:lon.
:*The American spikenard, Aralia racemosa, of the ginseng family, 
:Araliaceae, is a plant native to the eastern United States. A 
:decoction of the root was used by Indians for backache, rheumatoid 
:arthritis, and coughing.

Mr Mercer suggests Rafal Spice Company (2521 Russell, Detroit, Mich, 48207.
(313) 259-6373) in Detroit's Eastern Market as a source for some of the more
estoteric herbs.

Mark Peacock
Birmingham, Michigan
mpeacock at oeonline.com
http://oeonline.com/~mpeacock/bbusiness.html



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Date:           Wed, 11 Oct 95 7:42 EDT
From: Gerald_Wirtz at vos.stratus.com
Subject:        1st all grain question(s)

     I tried a test batch (3 gallon) of all grain brew last weekend.

     5 lbs English 2 row
     1 lb dark xtal
     1 oz Goldings hops - 60 minutes
     1/2 oz Hallertau - 10 minutes
     1/2 oz Hallertau - dry

     Mashed at ~146 for 1 hour. Sparged with a 'Zappap' system and my
starting gravity was only 1.29!!!

     I think I made some errors in sparging. I simply added the grains
to the tub and opened up the spigot. Then dripped hot water on top of
the grains until my boiling pot was filled. (2.5 gallon). I think that
I should have left the spigot only open so a trickle come out. And also
kept the water level above the grain-bed.

     The run-off never 'cleared'. Does 'cleared' mean clear like water?
or clear like you can see through the wort?

     I've also heard things like recirculating the wort - should I have
also done this?

     Thanks for any and all replies - keep them direct and I'll post
a summary for all the new 'all grainers' out there.

     Gerald_wirtz at vos.stratus.com

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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 06:42:29 -0500
From: blacksab at siu.edu
Subject: electronics

I've got a couple of questions for the collective:

1.  Has anyone used the BruProbe and BruTemp(tm) from JB Distributing? I'm
not real good with electronics, but I'm fairly handy, and this seems like a
good entrance into it. Anyone had any experience?

2.  I'm still kicking this RIMS-thing around in my head, and I want to start
with a motor speed controller. I have in front of me ZYMURGY's Gadgets and
Equipment Issue, p.50, Rodney Morris's schematic. For the most part,
everything makes sense except for 2 things:

        a.) L1--100uH choke (200 turns of 20 guage wire wound on a 1.5x0.5
ferrite rod). Is the wire bare or insulated? Isn't this a species of
resistor? And what happens to the ends of the 20-ga wire, are they wired
into the line?
Why ferrite, why not copper? And is ferrite simply iron? Stupid question,
but I don't know any better.

        b.) Wired across line and neutral, and also wired to D2, diac
trigger for triac, is something labeled T2. But it also seems to be labeled
MT1, MT2, & G. What do these last 3 represent. They're present in the
teperature controller above as well. What gives?

        c.) Finally, do these schematics work as printed? I recall reading
something in an old HBD when I was doing my RIMS research that someone
couldn't get the temperature controller to work properly. Anyone with
experience out there? 


Oh yea, another question from my long list that I keep forgetting to ask:
Where can I get brewing/food grade caustic soda? I assume that off-the-shelf
lye-type drain-cleaner would be unacceptable?

TIA,

                --Harlan


  
  
 ****************************************************************************
 *     Harlan Bauer                      ...malt does more than Milton can  *
 *  <blacksab at siu.edu>                   To justify God's ways to man.      *
 *    Carbondale, IL                                       --A.E. Houseman  *
 *                                                                          *
 ****************************************************************************
 


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Date: 11 Oct 95 08:00:31 EDT
From: "Todd A. Darroch" <75602.1137 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Brewing Systems

Please lend me your thoughts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have been looking for a company that manufactures an all-grain homebrew
gravity feed system.  I don't have all the time or effort required to build a
system from scratch.

Does anyone out there have any experience with the systems manufactured by:
Precision Brewing Systems ( wholesale division of East Coast Brewing Supply) of
Staten Island, New York.

It appears from there catalog that they use quality parts and they have a very
high opinion of the company's craftsmanship.  However, I would like the opinions
of real-life homebrewers and not there marketing department.
TIA   - private e-mail OK

Todd Darroch
Birmingham, Alabama


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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 08:01:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: "mike spinelli" <paa3983 at dpsc.dla.mil>
Subject: 100% wheat affirmation & thanks

   I'd like to personally thank fellow HBD'r Russell Mast for enlightening
me on the ability to mash 100% wheat malt provided you give it a shitty
crush.

   Over the weekend I had 20# of wheat (1/2 american, 1/2 german) crushed at
my local HB store.  I had the owner open the MM up to its widest setting.
I mashed in a 10 gallon Gott using a 12" aluminum pizza pan as a false
bottom (thanks to Dave Bradley, another HBD'r).  After 130 mins. at around
150 (give or take a couple), started sparge and it went FLAWLESSLY.  NO
barley, NO rice hulls.  And this was my FIRST all grain 10 gallon batch!

Thanks again,      Mike

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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 95 09:26:01 EST
From: ASFA.DAUPO04A at daubgw1.itg.ti.com (Eric Rouse)
Subject: Re: Patrick Higgins - Celis White

Hi Eric,

>Here's one for a Celis Clone:

>   Method           :  Partial Mash

>Malts/Sugars:
>  0.50  lb.     Flaked Oats
>  0.50  lb.     Barley Flaked
>  1.00  lb.     Briess Weizen
>  4.00  lb.     Briess Pale
>  1.00  lb.     2-Row Lager Malt

Are the two "Briess" entries for malt extract or malt?  You do say "partial 
mash" above, but nothing is clearly labeled malt extract.

>This one has nice color and taste however you may want to increase the 
>volumes
>for the Coriander and Orange peel, I thought it was mild compaired to an 
>actual Celis White.

Well, I have never seen a recipe that wasn't equal parts unmalted wheat and 
pilsener malt before, so I suspect that plays a part.


John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo at mitre.org


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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 95 09:43:36 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Aluminum

In HBD 1854, rbarnes at sdccd.cc.ca.us asks:

>        In the latest Zymurgy special issue the author of
>   one of the articles commented that there was still
>   some debate in homebrewing circles over whether
>   aluminum pots were acceptable for use in brewing.
>   My understanding was that the aluminum would undesirably
>   affect the beer. Anyone out there using aluminum?
>   It's sure cheaper than stainless.

This comes up every few months.  Rather than just offer theory, I'll
give personal testiimony.  I've been using a 10 gallon, 5mm thick
Johnson and Rose ALUMINUM pot for 1-1/2 years with NO detrimental
effects on my beer.  This includes my "Your Father's Mustache" Classic
American Pilsner (see BT, Sept - Oct, '95), which allows no place for
off flavors to hide, and which took a 1st in the BOSS last spring.  I
have been so pleased with this that I just bought two more (~$70 each
with lid) and have set up a three burner RIMS.  Not only is aluminum
cheaper than SS, it is lighter, and 10X better heat conductor.  I prefer
it irrespective of the cost.  The only advantage I can see to SS is that
you can use caustic to clean it, which I never would.

A few months ago, there was an article in BT reporting on a test in
which a 10 gallon batch of wort was split and boiled in a 5 gallon SS
pot and a 5 gallon aluminum pot.  Both were analyzed and showed the
same, very low level of aluminum as the brewing water did.  So even if
aluminum ingestion were correlated with Alzheimer's disease, brewing in
aluminum is a non-issue.

Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner at umich.edu


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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 08:44:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: kuebeler at PICARD.tamu.edu (Mark Kuebeler)
Subject: Giving a stuck batch a kick in the ass?


I have a batch of ale that has been in the secondary for several weeks
now.  I believe I racked it to secondary too soon, because the SG at
that time was 1.022 (OG 1.040).  My first clue should've been clumps
of flocculated yeast still at the top of the fermenter, but I went
ahead and racked anyway.  It had been in the primary for 7 days, and
out of 7 batches, this was the first that hadn't finished fermenting
within that time.

During the first night in secondary it produced enough foam to fill
the airlock before settling down to what appears to be an
excruciatingly slow fermentation.  After one week the SG had dropped
to 1.020, and as of this morning (10 days after racking) it is still
bubbling away.

My primary fermenter should be free this weekend, and I'm thinking of
racking the still-fermenting batch back to that after stirring up the
sediment at the bottom of the carboy.  I'm hoping this will wake up
enough dormant yeast to finish the job without having to resort to
pitching another dose of fresh yeast.  I don't think it will hurt, but
the question is, can it help?  :)


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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 08:48:26 -0500
From: "Andrew D. Kailhofer" <andy at aerie.bdy.wi.ameritech.com>
Subject: Sparge Efficiency


This made me stop and think...

: (Message hbd/tmp:13) -- using template mhl.format --
: Date:    Sun, 08 Oct 1995 14:18:10 MDT
: 
: From:    flemingk at usa.net (Kirk R Fleming)
: Subject: Extraction Efficiency, Agitation, and Recirc
: 
: exclusively, that number had to be tweaked down to 65-68%, and most
: recently, a disturbing 55% (unfair--I used a batch sparge).

I hadn't thought that "incremental" sparging vs. batch sparging would
yield substantially different results.  The only difference I can see
is that there's more pressure head in a batch sparge.

>From a "data point" view, I did get poor extraction from the last
batch I did in which I did a batch sparge, but we felt that this was
cause by a too-coarse crush (significant quantity of uncrushed sweet
grains left amongst the spent grains at the end, with the spent grains
being truly spent).  Now I've got this variable...

Can someone please tell me where in the literature I've missed seeing
this?  Am I misremembering reading that some (all?) of the big boys
batch sparge?  Is it a function of sparge head vs. grain bed depth?

Thanks.

Andy
- --
  Andy Kailhofer  Sr. Analyst, Ameritech Network Services   414/678-7793
  andy at aerie.bdy.wi.ameritech.com                      FAX: 414/678-6335
  740 N Broadway, Room 430,  Milwaukee, WI  53202-4303
  pXostmaster at ameritech.com   Fight for your right to privacy!

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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 95 08:42 CST
From: Wolfe at act-12-po.act.org
Subject: 1995 THIRSTY Homebrew Competition

1995 THIRSTY Homebrew Competition

The entry deadline is a month away (November 10th) for the 1995 THIRSTY
Homebrew Competition.  The competition will be held on November 18th in
Iowa City, Iowa.  We'll also sponsor a BJCP exam on the 19th.

Entries will be taken in all AHA beer and mead categories, and BJCP judges
will score all entries.  Ribbons will be given for each category and
winners will be advanced to best of show judging.  Great prizes will be
given for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in the Best of Show Beer (a total of $150 in
gift certificates and a paid entry into the 1996 AHA National Homebrew
Competition) and Best of Show Mead (an unlimited number of entries into
the 1996 Mazer Mead Competition, a one-year membership to the American
Mead Association, and 10# of honey).  We'll also have a special category,
Best of Homebrew, that will be judged strictly on drinkability (no AHA
guidelines).  Prizes will be given for the top three places in Best of
Homebrew also (a total of 1.75 pounds of hops, a case of beer, a way cool
jacket, and a beer mug).

To get more information about entering or judging in the 1995 THIRSTY
Homebrew Competition, contact Dave Schinker at 319-523-2314 or email Ed
Wolfe at wolfe at act.org.  If you send email, please include your snail mail
address or phone number in case your email bounces.

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Date: 11 Oct 1995 07:57:24 -0700
From: "Richard Scotty" <richard_scotty at msmgate.mrg.uswest.com>
Subject: Re: Broadway Brewing

Doug Glantz writes:
>Can anybody tell me more about Broadway Brewing Co. in Aspen, CO?

I can shed some light on the Broadway Brewing Co.  First of all, it's not in
Aspen.  The Flying Dog is in Aspen, but Broadway Brewing is in Denver, on
Broadway near Coors FIeld.

BB is co-owned by The Wynkoop and the Flying Dog breweries.  I'm uncertain of
the ownership split, but I suspect the Wynkoop holds the majority stake.

I first went to BB with the now ex-head brewer from the Wynkoop and got the
following story about BB's existance.  BB was formed to brew and bottle the
beers from the Wynkoop and the Flying Dog breweries.  In fact Doug, the beer
you are drinking (Doggy Style) was brewed and bottled at BB.  The Flying Dog
in Aspen is a small operation with no bottling capacity.  The same holds true
for the bottled Wynkoop beers.
  
At BB, they have a large brewery with the appropriate filtering and bottling
lines to package their beers for distribution.  I have been told that BB is
also doing some contract brewing, but I can't confirm or deny this.  There is
a small pub tacked onto the front of the operation to satisfy some outdated
Colorado liquor laws.

As to the Road Dog "controversy", it revolves around the label for the
bottles.  Hunter Thompson, a self described gonzo writer, helped design the
label.  Toward the bottom of the label on either side of the graphic, it
said, in small lettering, "Good Beer - No Shit".  The Colorado Liquor Board
made them stop selling the beer until the label is changed.  Now, I think
that this is over-reaction on the part of the State.  Anyone old enough to
walk into a liquor store and purchase a bottle has heard this word before,
and I'm getting tired of the government trying to 'protect' me in instances
like this one.  It inhibits creativity - a bad thing in the beer business.

Lastly, if you're ever in Denver, I would include a visit to Broadway
Brewing.  There is a small, rather plain pub on the front of a pretty large
brewery, and they keep 20 taps of the finest beers available on hand.  Food
is basic, but good and you'll have a tough time finding another beer
selection like this one. 

Damn, now I'm thirsty...

Rich Scotty - Broncbuster at the yeast ranch - The Crapshoot Brewery

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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 09:22:35 -0500
From: chuckmw at mcs.com (Chuck Wettergreen)
Subject: chiller improvements

Fellow HBD'ers,
Recently I've made some dramatic improvements in my immersion chilling
techniques that have resulted in incredibly short chilling times.  Most
of the changes were learned from hints or suggestions on the HBD, for
which I am most grateful. As I gleaned many of these suggestions over a long
period, I thought I'd list them together here so all can benefit from my
experience.

I boil in a standard 15.5 gallon stainless keg, usually 10 gallon batches.
With the changes I have made I usually don't stir as the temperature gradient
within the wort is now minimal.  Here are the changes I have made.

1) Changed the cold water inlet to go in the top of the coil
(where the wort is hottest) rather than in the bottom and exiting the
top.

2)  Attached two pieces of 8-gauge copper wire to the top of the
chiller. This enables me to hang the chiller from the keg handles so the
it is suspended at the top of the hot wort (again, where the wort is
hottest).

3)  Suspend the keg off the ground so that air can circulate under it
while chilling.  I used to just put it on two 4X4 blocks, but now I
wheel it around in style!  I found, at Amer. Science & Surplus, a "trash
can dolley" for $7.50. This item is a ring with rods welded like spokes
in a wheel and a standard keg fits it with room to spare. It has five
plastic casters. It looks incredibly cheap and chintzy, yet I've tested
it with a keg full to the top with water and it holds it and wheels
around just fine.

4)  After the first blast of hot cooling water exits (which I capture in
a plastic bucket for chiller and keg cleaning later), the chilling water
is (relatively) cool. I spray this on the hot bottom ring and other
lower portions of the keg. I considered that I might be creating thermal
stress cracking, but haven't experienced any problems yet.  Please be
careful, this action produces steam which can easily cause severe burns!
It also points out just how hot the bottom of the keg gets, which also
has to be cooled before the wort will also be cooled.

This last step, I believe, does more to cool down the wort than any of
others above.  I plan on constructing a copper tubing ring around the top
of the keg with holes drilled on the underside. This will direct the
cooling water flow around the entire perimeter of the keg.

I've also made one other change unrelated to chilling, and that is to
install a block & tackle attached to my garage rafters. No more back
strain from lifting 10 gallon batches.

Cheers,
Chuck
chuckmw at mcs.net
Geneva, IL
/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*
Chuck Wettergreen
chuckmw at mcs.com
Geneva, Il
/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*


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Date: 11 Oct 1995 07:17:07 PDT
From: "Wallinger, W. A." <WAWA at chevron.com>
Subject: pumpkin ale


From: Wallinger, W. A. (Wade)
To:  OPEN ADDRESSING SERVI-OPENADDR
Subject:  pumpkin ale
Date: 1995-10-11 09:02
Priority:

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Judging from some of the posts of late, it must be pumpkin ale season.
Russell comments that he might try using the pumpkin shell, which is what I
did last year and intend to do again this year. Credit goes to the folks at
Heart's Home Beer and Wine making Supply in Orlando, Florida (no financial
interest, but a very satisfied customer). This recipe appears in their
catalog. It is apparently based on a Thomas Jefferson recipe.

6.6# gold malt extract
5# fresh pumpkin pie meat (the 'shell', from a 7# pumpkin)
1.5# pale malt
1.0# british crystal malt
2 oz willamette hops
4 each 1/8" and 1/4" pieces of ginger root
1/2 tsp ground cinnamon
1/8 tsp nutmeg
1 tsp gypsum
1 tsp irish moss
wyeast - british ale

Rinse the pumkin, leave skin on and cut into large sections. Bake in 350f
oven for 1hr 15min. Remove skin and crush meat. Mash pumpkin and grains with
the gypsum and 1.5 gal water at 150f for 1 hour. Sparge. During the boil,
add 1 oz hops for 1 hour and 1 oz hops for 10 min. Add spices with 5 min
remaining in the boil. Expect excessive trub in the primary.

>From my experience last year, the sparge was no problem at all, even with
this small amount of grain. And the pumpkin flavor did come through. The
baking process 'carmelizes' (maillardizes?) the top part of the pumpkin
meat, which adds to the flavor of the beer. This was a very mellow beer, and
becomes especially well balanced after 2 or 3 months.

Wade, brewing contraband on the Mississippi Gulf Coast


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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 10:24:09 -0400
From: CCCEF.KHUIZING at capital.ge.com
Subject: Enzyme Activity

     All,

     Concerning the ongoing discussion of enzyme activity, I have found
     myself wondering if a graphical representation of said activity
     exists?  Here's what I was thinking, if you plotted for each of the
     major enzymes, a rate of conversion over the appropriate temperature
     range and a rate of denaturing over the same range.  Then determine
     the spread at each temp, would the resulting data follow a bell curve?
      Assuming you limit the temp range to acceptable limits, considering
     time as a valuable resource.  This could be very helpful in gaining a
     better understanding of the whole process.

     Keith Huizinga

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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 10:49:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eugene Sonn <sonn at oswego.Oswego.EDU>
Subject: Syracuse Brew  Clubs?

Hello to HBDers,
	Anyone  have a  listing of homebrew  clubs  in  the  Syracuse NY 
area?   I  moved to  Oswego,  NY this  summer  and  would  appreciate 
knowing  I'm not  the  only  brewer  in the  area.

Thanks  in  advance,

Eugene Sonn

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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 11:07:44 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: ooops


got that email address for As it Happens backward.
  Correction: AIH at toronto.cbc.ca

Now go have a beer,

Bob Paolino    uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Madison

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Date:         Wed, 11 Oct 95 10:54:30 EDT
From: CGEDEN at NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU
Subject:      Erlanger, 800 numbers, gelatin

John Harkey asks about Erlanger...I remember it as being some megabrewery's
response to Michelob, that is, a new "premium", top of the line brew.
But are you sure it was Schlitz - I thought it was Pabst or Coors.
They had good TV ads, and the product's motto was "Come and taste the
moment".  The funny thing is that I remember the jingle, the ads, and
the slogan bu have absolutely no recollection of the beer's character.

Steve Madson finds that those 800 numbers don't work outside the US.
Lay 'em on us, we'd be happy to call them and get their "regular" line
numbers for you.

Now, a question.  I wish now that I hadn't blown by all those discussions
about gelatin because now I'm interested in trying it.  I'm getting old
waiting for a now 6-week fermentation to end for an IPA.  It seems pretty
still but has been very slow to settle and clear.  Please no discussion
about boiling the stuff, my question is this:
   Is there any danger that there won't be enough yeast left after using
gelatin to carbonate the bottled beer?  Is there a critical window of
time after using gelatin when the beer should be primed and bottled?

     Chris Geden in Gainesville, FL <cgeden at nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>

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Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by BSUVC.bsu.edu
From: 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill)
Subject: Tape recorders / Cottonwood brewery

>Found a new brewing gadget last weekend;  a tape recorder!
>
>It sits on a small shelf in the brewery (kitchen) next to a clock.  When
>someone has a comment or note to take, they push record say the time, then
>whatever they wish to record.
>
>When done brewing, I play it back and transcribe the notes into my computer.

I do this without the tape recorder, directly into my Macintosh PowerBook.
Pretty cool, and all my notes and converions, etc... are there too.

>I hereby dedicate the ribbon that held the medal around my long, skinny
>neck all day Saturday to the HBD and invite you all to come see and touch
>it at the brewery!  It's as much yours as mine.  I know in my heart we

Congrats, Kinney!  Where is Cottonwood?  I've been reading the HBD every day
for about 2 years, but have only ever met 1 (short term) reader, so far.
Someday, I'd like to meet more of you.  That would be one of my main
motivations for going to a national or regional conference--second only to
trying your beers, of course!  ;-)

- --Brian K. Pickerill <00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu> Muncie, IN



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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 11:36:34 -0400
From: IHomeBrew at aol.com
Subject: Thanks & New Hop ?s

Fellow HBDers,

Thanks to everyone who responded to my recent posts about repitching yeast
and composing grains.  I'm going to give both a try starting with my next
batch.  FYI, the best advice that I received on both topics was to <surprise>
RELAX!!!  ;->

New question:  what is the proper technique for pruning my hop vines for
winter?  My vines are beginning to turn brown as the weather cools.  Also, I
read an article somewhere on the 'net (darn! can't remember where...) about
uprooting vines and transplanting (no pun intended) them to different
locations.  Has anyone ever done this?  This was my first year of hop growing
and I am afraid that I may have to move next June (I'm graduating from
college) and I want to take my vines with me.  I was thinking of
transplanting them to 55-gallon barrels or something that I could move around
with a hand truck.  It seems that this would provide enough soil depth,
though I don't know how hop roots grow.

I've also been reading the Pumpkin Ale threads.  Such a recipe sounds
intriguing, however I can't imaging drinking 5 (or more!) whole gallons of
pumpkin flavored beer.  Eeeew!

Prost!

Clark D. Ritchie in (it's been far too rainy lately) Tacoma, WA

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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 95 11:51:16 EST
From: tfields at relay.com
Subject: RE toasting pumpkin

     Russell Mast writes in #1854:
     >Someone in private e-mail a couple of Novembers ago said that you 
     >should
     >toast or bake the pumpkin first.
     Makes sense. That should brown it and caramelize whatever sugars are 
     present, giving more color and flavor as a result.  I've used this 
     caramelizing with Cajun recipes - sauteing onions, peppers, and spices 
     in a hot cast iron pan.  Having the spices in there as well helps to 
     intensify their flavor contribution, and the caramelization gives some 
     really nice flavors.  (BTW, i don't advocate onion beer ;-)
     I wonder what flavor might result from briefly sauteing some pumpkin 
     meat chunks with a little pumpkin spice?  Might use just a spritz of 
     PAM to lube the pan.
     
     -Tim
     
     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
     "reeb!"
     Tim Fields ... Fairfax, VA 
     74247.551 at compuserve.com _or_ timfields at aol.com (weekends) 
     timf at relay.com (non-brewing time)
     
     
     


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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 95 12:02:11 EDT
From: "Matthew W. Bryson" <MWBryson at LANMAIL.RMC.COM>
Subject: re:Aluminum brewpots

   Randy Barnes asked about brewing in aluminum brewpots. I can't speak 
for other brewers; however, I have been brewing for about 2 years using a 
10 gallon brewpot I purchased while working in the food service industry. 
Neither I nor any of my friends have been able to detect any noticeable 
defects in the flavor- except for the ones that I inadvertently put in 
there. As far as the whole Alzheimers/Al debate, i don't worry about it at 
all. YMMV.

	Matthew Bryson

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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 95 12:48:55 EST
From: Christopher Beisel <Christopher_Beisel at exec.niaid.pc.niaid.nih.gov>
Subject: Grain Bed Depth in Mash/Lauter Tun

I'm getting ready to make the transition from extract brewing to partial 
mash and/or all-grain, and I'd like to take the opportunity to learn 
something about the design of mashing/lautering equipment. While the HBD 
archives has lots of useful info on constructing specific systems, there 
has been considerably less posted about the theory behind the designs.

The question for today: what are the limitations on the dimensions of a 
mash/lauter tun?  Clearly, the tun's volume must accomodate the grain, 
water and any plumbing, with room left over for stirring.  However, for 
any given mash a larger tun will result in a thinner grain bed (a 
problem with partial mashes or small batches).  How thin can the bed be 
and still allow for acceptable extraction and filtration?

Thanks in advance for the help.

Christopher Beisel
CBeisel at nih.gov


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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 12:51:23 -0400
From: Btalk at aol.com
Subject: wort aeration via air pump

One of my beer geek buddies and I were talking about wort aeration. 
I've used an aquarium air pump with a couple different types of air stone
diffusers. My experience is that the foaming is so great that it becomes a
humongous PITA, even with 5 gal of wort in a 6.5 gal carboy.
I can run the air pump for about 10 min, then have to shut it off and wait
20-30 min for the foam to subside before I can turn the pump on again. 3 or 4
of these cycles is the limit of my patience.
I typically use the 'holes drilled in the tube aerator and shake carboy when
half full' aeration technique. There was no noticeable difference in the
terminal gravity between this technique and using the air pump, with a
standard beer recipe and same yeast.

Any thoughts on this? WIll using 02 make much difference?
My feeble memory suggests there was a thread along this line about a year
ago.

Regards,
Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY <btalk at aol.com>


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Date:          Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:18:04 +0000
From: "Robert Marshall" <robertjm at hooked.net>
Subject:       Diacetyl on pupose

Call me a sick puppy, but what do I do to specifically get more 
diacetyl on purpose????

I really love Sam Smith's products from England and the taste that 
their high diacetyl level gives.

Any ideas???


Later,

Robert Marshall
robertjm at hooked.net

homepage: http://www.hooked.net/users/robertjm
- ----------------------------------------------
"In Belgium, the magistrate has the dignity
of a prince, but by Bacchus, it is true
that the brewer is king."

          Emile Verhaeren (1855-1916)
          Flemish writer
- ------------------------------------------------

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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 14:29:20 -0400
From: ge083 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (G. M. Elliott)
Subject: Perforated SS Plate

To any and all looking for perforated SS plate and or Plastic
I received a catalog from Ametco Manufacturing 4326 Hamann Parkway
Willoughby, Oh  44094 phone 216-951-4300 or 1-800-321-7042 and
they have all styles and types of SS perf and plastic plates
that they can cut to various sizes etc for those who are looking
to make their own tuns.

Standard disclaimer and I am also not even a customer just got
the catalog.

But from the looks of the catalog, if they don't have it you don't
want it.

Regards,

Mark in Hudson Ohio


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1855, 10/12/95