FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Yeast Washing Report (Tim Fields)
  American Brown Ale recipe (ESMPD)" <gcunning at Census.GOV>
  MEMO 1995/10/2 (uszvnr96)
  gas burners indoors ("Taber, Bruce")
  Grain Toasting / Re-pitching ("Richard Scotty")
  Clarification on styles. (Russell Mast)
  False Bottoms...again (Jay Reeves)
  How to use spent grains... ("Bessette, Bob")
  RE: Freezer/ Frig meed (Gary McCarthy)
  Yeast Alcohol Tolerance Data Point ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
  French style beer (Bob_Brescia.GLAXO)
  Re: Lagering - in Carboy or in bottles? (Bob_Brescia.GLAXO)
  Survey. (Russell Mast)
  ? ABOUT USING BLEACH. (Gene Rafter)
  Bulging cans of extract (David Oliver)
  re: Bottle Neck Woes (DHatlestad)
  Extended Aeration (Bob Sutton)
  MGD (Stephbrown)
  historical techniques (M. Blind)
  RE: Sanatizing question (Holmes)
  Miller: Too much oxygen kills?!! (Phil Brushaber)
  Finnish Brewers (HOMEBRE973)
  Diaphragms?? (SCHWAB_BRYAN)
  Happy Holidays comp ("Ginger Wotring, Pharm/Phys")
  F to C   &   C to F (trafcom)
  mason jar / bitterness summary (MR MARK W LEVESQUE)
  straining (MR MARK W LEVESQUE)
  chilling (MR MARK W LEVESQUE)
  glassware etymology (Todd Gierman)
  Another Wyeast 1056 Woe (TJWILLIA)
  The SABCO Experience (Kirk R Fleming)
  re: ? REGARDING SUPPLIER(S) OF EQUIP ("Glen R. Geisen")
  beer-of-the-month clubs (dayna kathryn koger)
  Apricot Wheat Ale (Michael K. Cinibulk)



!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!! October 3 thru October 13: The digest
!!! will be unmanned! Please be patient if
!!! you make any requests during this time
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

******************************************************************
* POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
* 
* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.
******************************************************************
 
#################################################################
#
# YET ANOTHER NEW FEDERAL REGULATION: if you are UNSUBSCRIBING from the
# digest, please make sure you send your request to the same service
# provider that you sent your subscription request!!! I am now receiving
# many unsubscribe requests that do not match any address on my mailing
# list, and effective immediately I will be silently deleting such
# requests.
#
#################################################################
NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS hpfcmgw!

Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at alpha.rollanet.org
ARCHIVES:
  An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer
  related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at
  ftp.stanford.edu.  Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full
  e-mail address as the password, look under the directory
  /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory.  AFS users can find it under
  /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer.  If you do not have
  ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail
  service at gatekeeper.dec.com.  For information about this service,
  send an e-mail message to ftpmail at gatekeeper.dec.com with the word
  "help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: 24 Oct 95 08:17:11 EDT
From: Tim Fields <74247.551 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Yeast Washing Report

Hello All,

Given recent interest in re-pitching yeast from a previous batch, I 
thought a yeast washing report might be of interest.  I wanted to use the 
yeast settled from a 5 gal IPA recipe for a similar gravity brew. I had 
allot of yeast and trub in the IPA primary (did not remove the hot/cold 
break), so decided to wash it using the technique in the yeast faq.  
Instead of 3 mason jars, I used two 1 gal apple cider-type jugs to 
accommodate the volume.  All jars/jugs soaked in iodophor, and all necks 
flamed. Added around 2 cups boiled and cooled water to the carboy, gave 
it a mighty swirl to loosen everything, and poured contents equally into 
the 2 jugs.  Agitated periodically till definite separation was evident.  
The jugs spent settling time sitting in a sink full of cold tap water to 
assist in settling (probably not necessary).  I poured off the suspended 
yeast from each jug into it's own 1 qt mason jar (which filled each), 
covered them with foil, and did the same agitation-settling routine 
again.  Poured off the suspended yeast from each mason jar into one final 
mason jar, which was pretty much full. Covered with sanitized foil 
(iodophor soak) and refrigerated till needed.

When ready to pitch, I took the jar out of the frig to let it come up to 
pitching temp.  Resulting fermentation had a short lag time and is VERY 
active, in fact the most active 1056 ferment I've had.  Fermenting in a 
6.5 gal carboy at 66F-68F, it popped off the top off my airlock last 
night.  That is a good 6 inches of kraeusen - compared to the 2 inches I 
typically get.

I do have one question/observation: this was an all-grain batch (my 
first).  Compared to extract or partial mash (and asside from the effects 
of pitching more yeast), could this higher fermentation activity be in 
part the result of higher FAN levels?   If so, this is IMHO a very good 
argument for using yeast nutrient (which I never used).



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Reeb!"

  - Tim Fields ... Fairfax, VA
    
     74247.551 at compuserve.com _or_ timfields at aol.com (weekends)
     timf at relay.com (non-brewing time)



Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 08:40:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Jerry Cunningham (ESMPD)" <gcunning at Census.GOV>
Subject: American Brown Ale recipe

I was wondering if some of you experienced all grainers could check out 
this recipe for me and see what you think - I've only made 5-6 batches of 
all grain so far, all "proven" recipes. This is the first one I've 
formulated on my own, through a highly scientific technique (I got all of 
my leftover stuff from the closet/freezer).

5.33  lbs. Klages
2     lbs. D-C Pilsen
2     lbs. Vienna (American 6-row)
0.5   lbs. D-C Aromatic
0.5   lbs. German wheat
0.5   lbs. Caravienne
0.5   lbs. Caramunich
0.5   lbs. chocolate malt
0.125 lbs. black malt

single-step infusion 155F, ~1 hr.

1.5 oz. Cascade  (5.8%) 60 min.
 .5 oz. Tettnang (3.4%) 10 min.
 .5 oz. Cascade  (5.8%) finish

1056 American

Whaddaya think?

Thanks for any comments,

Jerry Cunningham
 - Annapolis, MD

ps What do you use to acidify your sparge water? Mine's about pH 8.4, and 
I'd like to get it down to around 5.7. I have some gypsum, but I'm 
worried that I would have to add too much to bring it down that far. I 
also have some "acid blend" (I forget what's in it) - but I don't want to 
affect the flavor. I was thinking about phosphoric, but can't get it in 
time for brew-day. Suggestions?

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 09:29:14 EDT
From: uszvnr96 at ibmmail.com
Subject: MEMO 1995/10/2


I've been lurking about four months now, and have been absorbing the wisdom
found in the HBD.  I've brewed about four batches of beer (all extract).
Sometime next year I plan on jumping into all grain.  Anyway, I am looking
to brew a holiday brew that is a little spicy-the ingredients would
include ginger.  The question is, how much ginger would it take to give
a hint of the flavor?  The preliminary recipe is:

3.75 lb Dark malt syrup
2.75 lb Light malt extract
                1.5 oz Cascade hop pellets  at  60 min
                1.0 oz Cascade hop pellets  at  last 15 min of boil
                Undetermined quantity of ginger
Various secret ingredients including nutmeg

This is for a five gallon batch, I plan to use roughly 3 gallons in the
boil.  I'd appreciate any advice, etc. that y'all could impart to this
lowly extract brewer.  Thanks.
Now for your brief entertainment::::::
The Invisible Killer

O2 is colorless, odorless, tasteless, and kills uncounted thousands of
people every year.  Most of these deaths are caused by accidental
inhalation of O2, but the dangers of O2 do not end there.  Prolonged
exposure to its gaseous form causes intensive metabolic processes that
can result in premature aging of body tissue.  Symptoms of O2 ingestion
can include dizziness, a compulsive movement in the lungs and a feeling
of being alive.  For those who have become O2 dependent, O2 withdrawal
means certain death. O2 is also a large component in the formation
of harmful ozone.

Contamination is reaching Epidemic Proportions!
Quantities of O2 have been found in almost every stream, lake,
reservoir, soil sample, animal tissue, and hospital around the
globe-the contaminant has even been found in Antarctic ice.

Plants dump waste O2 into the atmosphere and soil and nothing can
be done to stop them because this practice is still legal.  The impact
on wildlife is extreme, and we cannot afford to ignore it any longer!

For now, we can only hold our breath to save ourselves, but
It's Not Too Late!
Act NOW to prevent further contamination.  Write your Congressperson
to push for a ban on the production and use of O2.  For more
information, send email to the Coalition to Ban O2 at
no_O2 at idiocy.com.
**********************************************************************

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 24 Oct 95 09:28:00 EDT
From: "Taber, Bruce" <BRUCE.TABER at NRC.CA>
Subject: gas burners indoors


Hi there,
     I would like to make the move off my stove top and onto a big
gas-fired burner so that I can increase the size of my kettle.  The problem
is that I live in the Great White North (near Ottawa to be exact) and we are
quickly approaching winter when it will be cold enough to freeze the 
you-know-
whats off a brass monkey.  I really would like to boil in my basement but I
am concerned about carbon monoxide buildup indoors from the burner.
I am looking for suggestions from the collective.  I have thought about 
using
a small propane burner hooked up to my 20 lb. propane barbecue tank and
opening a window and using a fan to exhaust, but I am a worry-wort (now
there's a beer term for you). I don't like playing with bombs in the 
basement
as my family watches TV upstairs.
Anybody have any suggestions?
Thanks in advance.

Bruce
taber at irc.lan.nrc.ca

Return to table of contents


Date: 24 Oct 1995 07:56:26 -0700
From: "Richard Scotty" <richard_scotty at msmgate.mrg.uswest.com>
Subject: Grain Toasting / Re-pitching

Eric Miller speaks about his experiences with grain toasting and the
bitterness that it imparted to his beer.  In preparation for brewing a nut
brown ale last weekend, I tried toasting 1 pound of Hugh Baird 2 row pale in
a 375 degree oven for 40 minutes.  The first result of this experiment was a
rather unpleasant aroma that caused significant friction with the spousal
unit.  She walked around making faces and commenting on the noxious smell -
she was right too.

After removing the malt, I examined it and the coloration was quite uniform. 
I'd agree with Eric's observations - around 100 lovibond - maybe a shade
less.  The aroma was the same as the one that permeated the house - pretty
bad.  After I allowed it to cool, I tasted it.  There was a wonderfull nutty
character up front followed immediately by a rather nasty bitterness.  I
decided that I did not want this in my beer and changed the formulation for
brew day.

I've saved the malt in an air tight container to see if it will mellow at
all, but my instincts tell me that it won't improve.  I'm going to try
separating the husks and tasting the grist to see if the nasty bitterness has
anything to do with tannins in the husks.  My question for the digest:  Is
there a specific type of malt that does well in the toasting process?  I
really liked the nutty character of this experiment, but need to lose this
powerful bitterness.

On another note, I tried re-pitching this weekend along with about 40 minutes
of aquarium pump aeriation.  My nut brown ale took off in less than two
hours.  Very vigorous fermentation was underway within 4 hours.  I'm a
convert.

Rich Scotty - Head Hop Weigher - The Crapshoot Brewery

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 09:19:02 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Clarification on styles.


Charlie Scandrett and I agree on most of the issues on styles.  Someone in 
private e-mail misunderstood a couple recent comments I made after his post 
on styles, and thought I meant them directed specifically at Charlie.  
I re-read that post and see how easy it would be to make that mistake.  

The two comments were :

> >What would happen if I entered the best beer you've ever tasted in a wine 
> >competetion? 

My main point was to emphasize that I and many others perceive beer as having 
a broader range of tastes than wine.  I'm sure a wine enthusiast would take me
to the fence and back for something like that.  I guess I don't think it's at
all appropriate to compare a stout to a brown ale, for instance.  I don't think
it would be easy to trim that many categories.

I do agree with Charlie's main point that "excellence" is often undervalued 
whereas "conformity to style" is overemphasized.

Another comment I made was after he said 

> > >Let the brewer woo the palate within broarder categories!

I said :

> If you brew solely for winning competetions, or would like to, regardless of
> whether you brew to style, I pity you, I pity you.  If you make good beer 
> and you know it, who cares what some smelly old judge says about it?  

Okay, what I mean is "If one brews ..." or "If anyone reading this brews ..."
not "If Charlie brews ..."  That would be a very mean thing to say.  (Not to
say that I don't have a mean streak, just that I didn't mean to be mean.)

What I do mean is that I think we should woo the palate virtually without 
categories, at least once in awhile, but that for competetions we have these
styles.  I feel the palate you should be wooing should be your own (and the
palates of your friends).  

I really did not mean it as a slam against Charlie or anyone else.  I'm mostly
trying to talk to everyone and was just spurred by his comments.  Sorry about
that.  

 -R
cc: charlie
bcc: the person who thought I was on charlie's case

Return to table of contents


Date: 24 Oct 95 10:26:10 EDT
From: Jay Reeves <73362.600 at compuserve.com>
Subject: False Bottoms...again

I've been using a SS perf-plate false bottom for my mash/lauter tun
and also for the boil kettle, per Martin Mannings article in a past BT.
In the article, Martin calls for a 20 gauge 3/32" holes on 5/32" centers
(33% open area).  The only thing I could find locally was 22 gauge
with 1/8" holes on 3/16" centers (40% open area).

My results have been fairly good: no stuck sparges, good extraction
 at  33 PPG.  However, I get a good deal of scorching because the
grist easily gets through and it's a pain to clean.

Has anyone used the size of perf-plate that Martin specifies?  Does
the grist get through the holes and do you have any scorching?

I'm thinking of going to a smaller size hole and would like anyone to
give me some insight on any problems I may have using a smaller
sized hole pattern.  The sizes are 1/16" hole on 1/8" centers (36%
open area) and .045" holes on .025" centers (36% open area).

Would using the smaller sized holes create any problems?

John Palmer: You did an excellent article in BT about false bottom
designs - what do you think?

			-Jay Reeves
			Huntsville, Alabama, USA


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 24 Oct 95 07:53:00 PDT
From: "Bessette, Bob" <bob.bessette at lamrc.com>
Subject: How to use spent grains...


Fellow Brewers,
 I was wondering if any of you use your spent grains after you brew for 
anything. Maybe I am just conservative but there must be something I can do 
with these grains after mashing. Any ideas? I was talking to the owner of 
Sherlock's Home in Minnesota (GREAT BREWPUB!) and what he does to prevent a 
stuck mash with his wheat beers is to re-use grain husks from previous 
mashes by adding them to the mash. Thought it was a great idea if I ever do 
a wheat beer in the future...

Bob Bessette
bob.bessette at lamrc.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 24 Oct 95 09:00:15 -0700
From: gmccarthy at dayna.com (Gary McCarthy)
Subject: RE: Freezer/ Frig meed

Michael McGuire(mcguire at hvsun40.mdc.com) writes in HBD 1865:

>Freezer/ Frig meed

I would not put Mead in a freezer!

>I'm interested in a  fig or freezer.

Get the fig, thats my vote!!!

Look at the advantages of a fig:  lower initial and long-term costs, less
storage space(dammit, you can eat the fig if you need the room), the fig will
never shut down for an unknown length of time, you never get injured by the
fig sliding down the stairs.  There must be many other great advantages to
getting the fig.

Better yet, get a garage.  If you live in a varying, but overall, warm climate
like I enjoy in SLC(shh, no one is supposed to know that Utah is a neat place
to live!) from about 15 Nov to 15 Feb the garage will pretty much maintain a
40-50 degree temp(and thats F Buster!!).

Dan Wilson wrote in  HBD 1864:

>     Everyone tells me to soak off those labels. No one has ever mentioned
>     why.

Well, I soak the labels off my bottles because 
1)  they look much better;
2)  after you sterilize them, the labels will prob be flaking, that looks
really bad;
3)  Why would you want PBRs or Millers label on your beer?  (But I do like
Corona bottles).

A little advice:  If you think your bottles might explode(most recent
reference is the rootbeer thread), you should just slightly lift the bottle
cap and left the CO2 escape, but you don't need to take the lid completely
off.  You might have to do this once or twice a day for a week or so, but
eventually the excess sugar will be converted and your pressure will
stabilize.  I've saved at least 4 cases of beer this way.  The next time you
bottle, be it RB or beer, reduce the sugar a bit.

Take it easy, 

Gary McCarthy in SLC         Show Business Kids making movies of themseleves,
gmccarthy at dayna.com        you know they don't give a f*** about anybody else,
                                            you know they're outrageous!

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 24 Oct 95 09:53:00 MST
From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR at afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil>
Subject: Yeast Alcohol Tolerance Data Point


In #1865 with regard to mead rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)
wrote:

> If you could ferment out to dry from 1.135 you'd end up below
> 1.000, so you'd be well over 18% [percent alcohol]. The yeast
> simply won't make it that far, so it's going to end up a sweet
> mead

and on a similar subject rjmonson at stthomas.edu (Bob) asks:

> On a related note, Sam Adams Triple Bock. How to make?
> Won't the high alcohol content kill the yeast before completion...

JUST AS A DATA POINT: My first and only mead started out at 1.129
and using Wyeast's Dry Mead yeast finished at 0.999 within a couple
of weeks, and now, 3 months later is at about 0.997-0.998.

I'm not saying 1.129 is the same as 1.135, nor am I recommending
dry mead yeast for use in cloning SATB so don't give me any crap :-)
I'm also not suggesting the "mead" I made will be drinkable!

KRF Colorado Springs

Return to table of contents


Date: 24 Oct 95 12:56:52 EDT
From: <Bob_Brescia.GLAXO at notes.compuserve.com>
Subject: French style beer

  While I was down in the Carribean, before hurricane season,
  I tried several French beers.....They were very good and had
  almost a sweet flavor to them.  Recently I visited a French
  restaurant in Seattle and sampled another french beer, but
  cannot remember what any of them were called.

  I thought the style name began with a "B", but that is just a bad guess
  at best. I couldn't even come close to remembering the brand name.

  The beer had a unique flavor one that I cannot even describe
  because no other beer I have sampled has that flavor.

  Does anyone know what "style" french beers fall under?
  Also, any recipes?  Thanks.

  --Bob
  bob_brescia.glaxo at notes.compuserve.com


Return to table of contents


Date: 24 Oct 95 13:59:15 EDT
From: <Bob_Brescia.GLAXO at notes.compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Lagering - in Carboy or in bottles?

  Carl,

  I asked that same question and what I got out of the various discussions
  was the following:

     Ferment in primary for approx 1 week (45-50 deg) and then rack to
  secondary (38 deg) for approx 3 to 4weeks....
     Bottle condition immediately at 50....
     After 2 weeks or there about check a bottle and when carbonation is
  adequate drop temp to 34 degrees for
     the remainder of the lagering peroid......The lower temp will reduce
  the amt of bottle conditioning from what
     I gathered as well.

  I am still in the secondary so I am not sure what the outcome to this
  will be....

  Some also mentioning adding yeast when bottling to wake up the sleeping
  yeast.

  Anyone else?  Hope that helps.

  --Bob
  bob_brescia.glaxo at notes.compuserve.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 14:49:58 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Survey.


Kevin Imel and I have been chatting in private e-mail about various things
about HBD, and we got to wondering what the average educational level is
of folks here.

So, I got the idea to do a quick and dirty survey.  Here's the deal, e-mail
me with the subject line "survey" and tell me if you finished high school,
how many years of college you've had, how many years of post-college, what
degrees you've got, and if you're still in school.  Also, make mention of 
how much is part-time vs. full-time school.  Please be brief.

If you've got comments about this, I'd prefer it with a different subject 
line, otherwise I probably won't read it for a week or more.  I'm going 
to collect a bunch of responses and report the data as best I see fit.  I
guarantee I won't publish anyone's name in this, and I have no plans to use
this data for anything but to satisfy my curiousity and yours.  (If there
is some other use, and you don't want your data in that, let me know when you
respond.  I'll do everything I can to keep responses private, but who knows 
what kinds of geeks are snooping our e-mail these days.)

I'll probably give a few categorical percentages and then hack up a numbering
scheme and give some population stats on that.  

 -R

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 15:11:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: Gene Rafter <grafter at creighton.edu>
Subject: ? ABOUT USING BLEACH.

Not too long ago I went to my areas one and only beer supple store and 
was purchasing some caps for bottling, as well as a bottle washer.  The 
man at this store mentioned that you should never use bleach as a 
cleanser at all becasue it adheres too much to glass and plastic.  I use 
a diluted solution, like it says in the Complete Homebrew Guide and I do 
rinse thouroughly but he kept telling me that the book was wrong and that 
using houshold bleach kills the yeast..sure if you use a non-diluted kind 
and don't rinsse it very well but come on is this guy just out there to 
make some bucks on his o2 cleanser etc.  I like homebrewing, but hey this 
stuff can get to be expensive..is it okay to keep it simple.  The person 
that wrote about cooling his wort in the sink with ice water...thats 
alright in my book for us simple guys!  I am sure a wort chiller in the 
future for making many or large batches of beer would be worth while but 
for the simple 5 gallon batch a guy does every couple of weeks or 
so...come on lets not try and get too high tech.  Please don't take this 
the wrong way for those of you who do have wort chillers, I am sure they 
are worth it for you but this is just my opinion for those of us who just 
want to stick to the basics and not spend too much. 
   Any comments for this young brewmeister?
Gene Rafter

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 13:20:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Oliver <dwo at slip.net>
Subject: Bulging cans of extract

Hi all,
  I was rumaging thru my closet the other day and found two cans of 
Coopers Ale extract I frogot about.  They must be about 5-6 years old and 
I received them as a gift when I was extract brewing.  When I found them 
I thought it would be fun to do an extract batch.  One problem- the cans 
are bulging.  Is this a sign of Salmonella or some other food poisening?  
Or should I just go ahead and use it if it smells OK?   I hate to throw 
it away.
   Thanks in advance,

  Dave O

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 16:59:09 -0400
From: DHatlestad at aol.com
Subject: re: Bottle Neck Woes

epeters at rtp.semi.harris.com (Eric Peters  919- 405-3675) Writes:

>Don't be frightened by white spots or bottle neck rings.  My brother
>and
>I saw these on about half of the bottles from our first ~100 gallons
>(all
>were all-grain using Wyeast).  None of the bottles were bad. 

I find this statement to be highly suspect. Every time I've tasted beer 
from a bottle that had a ring around the neck, it was infected. Review
your bottle sanitation procedures. I've ruined my share of batches
by not getting the bottles clean enough.

  Cheers,
  Don

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 24 Oct 95 16:25 EST
From: Bob Sutton <BSutton_+a_fdgv-03_+lBob_Sutton+r%Fluor_Daniel at mcimail.com>
Subject: Extended Aeration




Text item: Text_1

Let's see here. We need to aerate the wort in the primary prior to inoculation.
The tried and true method seems to involve shaking the carboy, followed by
sparging (air sparging, that is) using airstones. Several of you have suggested
that pure O2 be used to achieve saturated conditions.

Regardless of the method, there seems to be agreement that oxygenated wort is
best for yeast propagation. On to my question. Assuming I am still on track
here, has anyone maintained aeration through inoculation, and the succeeding lag
and growth phases. It would seem that sparging would ensure adequate oxygen for
metabolic activity while the yeast doubles. I would surmise that one could
aeration through the first 3-4 hours (post-inoculation) in the primary.

Any takers on this amoungst the collective. If you care to run the experiment, I
will handle the QC :-)

- ---     __o
- ------  \<,             Bob
- ----- ( )/ ( )
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------


Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 21:01:49 -0400
From: Stephbrown at aol.com
Subject: MGD

Mike White wrote:

>Although I agree with your statements about categorizing >beer types I must
say that there is a definate taste >difference between MGD and Red Dog.
 Tastes like they forgot >to put the hops in Red Dog.  Not that either
compare with a >batch of homebrew!

Okay, agreed on the hop-free Red Dog, but Christ, have you ever tried the
MGD?  Some dead animal must have fallen into the stuff and perminantly
spoiled the fermenting tanks on that stuff.  Never before had such a foul
beverage passed between these lips.

Stephen Brown

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 24 Oct 1995 21:15:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: gtd862a at prism.gatech.edu (M. Blind)
Subject: historical techniques

Greetings

I am interested in recreating some of the techniques used by brewers in
the days before modern instruments and methods.  I'm looking for
information on equipment, ingredients, and processes.  In particular, I would
like to try running several run-offs from a single batch of grain (to
produce "strong" and "table" beers).  Of course, any other information of
a historical nature would be appreciated as well.

What I need are some resources.  (The library here at Tech is somewhat
anemic, particularly when you're looking for something other than
engineering journals.)  I'm looking for anything, really:  book titles,
ftp sites, URL addresses, personal insights, vague memories, etc.
Personal e-mail is fine, and I will be more than glad to post a summary to
the HDB.

Thanks in advance,

Matthew Blind, 
Dorm-brewer, purveyor of "Hide-it-from-the-Freshmen" Ale 
Georgia Tech, Atlanta, Georgia

- -- 
 M. Blind                               |  "Beer, Norm?"
 gtd862a at prism.gatech.edu               |  "I remember that stuff.
 http://acmex.gatech.edu:8001/~gtd862a  |   Better give me a tall 
                                        |   one in case I like it."

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 24 Oct 95 23:22:24 -0400
From: joep at informix.com (Holmes)
Subject: RE: Sanatizing question


 MClarke950> Paul Tully (PAUL_TULLY at HP1700.desk.hp.com) asked:
 MClarke950> Sanatizing question:
 >> What is the best sanitizer to use? I recently read in a homebrewing
 >> book that B-Brite is not a sanitizer, it's a cleanser. Is a
 >> household bleach solution a better sanitizer to use? Also, has
 >> anyone tried the new no rinse C-Brite?

 MClarke950> I don't know about best, but I use household bleach and
 MClarke950> Iodaphor, seperately.  Bleach is great for cleaning bottles
 MClarke950> and carboys, It just about dissolves the yeast caked on the
 MClarke950> sides.  I also use on things that will be stored and not
 MClarke950> used for a while.  I use the Iodaphor when the beer will be
 MClarke950> in contact with the sterilized surface in short order,
 MClarke950> racking canes, hoses, carboys *before* filling and bottle
 MClarke950> caps.

I have used B-Brite since I started brewing.  I have tried bleach and
iodophor, but have gone back to the b-brite.  I have not  had any
problems with infections or something being not clean.  The bleach
worked well for soaking bottles, but was a killer on my hands.  (I
know - use gloves :) .)  For bottle caps, I rinse them in b-brite and
then rinse in cold water just prior to use.

joe.
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Joe Pearl, Sr. Sales Engineer, Informix Software, Inc.                      |
| 8675 Hidden River Parkway, Tampa, FL, 33637 813-615-0616                    |
| PGP'd email preferred                                                       |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Sales: Mistaking desire for profitability. SIMON FAVRE                      |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 24 Oct 95 21:59:00 -0600
From: phil.brushaber at lunatic.com (Phil Brushaber)
Subject: Miller: Too much oxygen kills?!!


First of all let me say I am a great fan of Dave Miller and his books,
however a passage from his new "Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide" has
me a little concerned. I just bought a new oxygen injection system.
Based on George Fix's observations I thought it was impossible to
over-oxygenate a wort at normal pressures. But catch this quote from
Miller:

"One commercial brewing practice that can lead to trouble is the use
of oxygen rather than air. Pure oxygen seems like the ideal gas to
use, since it is what the yeast wants... The problem with using pure
oxygen, however, is that it is possible to get too much into the wort.
Wort saturated with air will contain about 8 parts per million of
dissolved oxygen. It is true that some strains of brewers yeast will
grow faster and in greater quantity if they get a little more oxygen
than this -- perhaps 10 to 15 ppm. However, wort saturated with pure
oxygen may contain 40 ppm of the gas. At that level, oxygen is a
highly effective sanitizing agent, lethal to all microorganisms
including yeast."

"Thus, if a little is good, more is not always better. If you have a
dissolved oxygen meter, you can experiment with different levels of
oxygenation to get the best possible yeast growth. However, few
homebrewers possess such an instrument, and, without one, there is a
good chance that you will kill your yeast rather than help them by
using pure oxygen. Air is safe."

Any thoughts?

- ----
The Lunatic Fringe * Richardson, TX * 214-235-5288 * Home Of FringeNet

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 07:30:11 -0400
From: HOMEBRE973 at aol.com
Subject: Finnish Brewers

I have a friend who is a novice brewer and is spending a year in Helsinki.
His name is Michael McMillian, and  he is having problems getting relatively
low cost brewing supplies.  Can any of the Finnish area homebrewers help him.
 His e-mail address is:
mcmillia at penger.helsinki.fi

Thanks,
Andy Kligerman

Ilsya Syssil--are you still on line?

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 07:45:51 CDT
From: SCHWAB_BRYAN at CCMAIL.ncsc.navy.mil
Subject: Diaphragms??

     
     To those out there within the collective who are more mechanically 
     adapt than I am, or those Much more familar with regulators, I could 
     certainly use your assistance.
     
     I recently came across a complete keggin' system, complements of the 
     '95 Santa Rosa Brewfeast, Ft. Walton Beach FL. ( Best of Show winner 
     for a BarleyWine called "REVENGE"). Well after getting this "toy" home 
     and discovering it was filled with "7up or Sprite" I thought I would 
     try out the system.  I made all of the connections and, opened the 
     valve to the regulator abit, and re-secured the connections after 
     seeing the leaks, and tried to adjust the pressure to stop the 
     "HISSING" and the "Hissing" never stopped!  
     
     After talking it over with a fellow brewer, the suggested cause was 
     attributed to bad diaphragms??
     Does anyone out there know how to remove and replace these little 
     puppies so I can get on with enjoying this new toy?  Can your average 
     novice preform this task at home with normal tools, is re-calibration 
     required of the gages afterwards?
     
     Thanks!!
     Bryan   


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 07:56:01 -0600 (CST)
From: "Ginger Wotring, Pharm/Phys" <WOTRING at SLUVCA.SLU.EDU>
Subject: Happy Holidays comp

Date sent: 25-OCT-1995 


The St Louis Brews are pleased to announce the return of our Happy Holidays 
Homebrew Competition! We use the standard 27 beer and mead
categories used by the AHA/HWBTA/BJCP with the addition of one special beer
style, Christmas Brau. This is a winter warmer/kitchen sink type beer, with
OG > 1.060, >3 malts, >4 hops, at least one adjunct. The Happy Holidays
Homebrew Competition is part of the Midwest Homebrewer of the Year challenge,
as well. 

Entries are due by 5pm 29 Nov. Judging will be held on the afternoon of
10 December, with a banquet and award ceremony following.

We welcome all entries, and urge everyone interested to come judge with
us! All judge points will reported to the AHA and the BJCP. Please pass 
this information along to other brewers who may be interested. 
The judging is followed by an award ceremony (great prizes, and bigger
ribbons this year) and banquet (our club members are *great* cooks).
If you are interested in visiting us, let me know. We will
have some places to stay available. 
                                                                       
- --
Ginger Wotring, HHHC coordinator
internet: wotring at sluvcb.slu.edu




Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 08:49:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: trafcom at inforamp.net
Subject: F to C   &   C to F


>degrees F to C conversions

>F = C*9/5 +32   or   C = (F-32)*5/9

So who is going to do these calculations in their head or on a piece of
paper when they're brewing? Anyway if you're using a bilingual (an in-joke)
thermometer there's no need to change.
Most people I know use a metric calculator (~$15 Can. - what's that in US$,
a buck and a half?) when they have to do this type of calculation. Sharp
and Canon are a couple of the manufacturers.

Anyway here's some basic brew-range temps - done with a metric calculator
of course:-

F  -  C
50 = 10
60 = 15.5
70 = 21.1
80 = 26.67
90 = 32.22
100 = 37.78
110 = 43.33
120 = 48.89
130 = 54.44
140 = 60
150 = 65.55
160 = 71.11
170 = 76.67
180 = 82.22

C  -  F
30 = 86
40 = 104
50 = 122
60 = 140
70 = 158
80 = 176
90 = 194
100 = 212

Just so you know what the rest of the world is talking about.

Peter Stanbridge
Oakville, Ontario
trafcom at inforamp.net



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 08:59:28 EDT
From: LFCP67A at prodigy.com (MR MARK W LEVESQUE)
Subject: mason jar / bitterness summary

Last week, I posted a question about mason jars and bitterness.
I received alot of advice through the digest and via email.
Thanks to all who replied.  Here is a brief summary;

Everyone agreed that mason jars were designed to vacuum seal
and not hold in pressure.  There were several definite "don't
do it"s.  A few others said give it a try and post the results.
3 or 4 have said the have tried it and it worked.  But all
generally agree that there is a risk of blowing the lids off
the jars.  The question was for my friend who just finished
brewing his first batch.  He was a bit nervous and did not want
to risk it, so he went out and bought 3 cases of the Grolsch-
type bottles and bottled his first batch yesterday.  (I tried
to talk him into buying me a few cases to no avail<G>).  I have
a couple of batches brewing right now and may experiment with
a mason jar or two when I bottle.  I'll store them in a brewing
bucket that I have retired.  

About the bitterness.  I believe it was from not straining out
the hops and not racking to a secondary.  I tried another
bottle and is still has a very strong hop taste, but is 
starting to mellow.(been bottled about 3 1/2 weeks).  I have a 
bit of stock now, so this batch will be set aside for a long 
while, and I am pretty sure it will mellow out nicely.

Thanks to all who replied to my first post on the HBD.  I have
only been reading it for a few weeks now, and love this forum.

Mark


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 09:00:53 EDT
From: LFCP67A at prodigy.com (MR MARK W LEVESQUE)
Subject: straining

I am weaning off hopped kits and starting to add hops and grains
in my brewing process.  I've recently brewed an English bitter
and used hop pellets in the brewing process.  I added the 
bittering hops directly to the boil and put the finishing hops
in a mesh bag at the end of the boil.  In trying to strain this
into the carboy, I had to go through 3 strainers, starting with
a wide one and working down to a mesh one.  The straining 
was quite lengthly and messy.  Is there an easier way to strain
from the brew pot directly into the carboy?  A brewing friend of
mine suggested putting in all in a primary and in about 8-12
hours, rack it to a secondary, and most of it will be left
behind.  
Thanks in advance.
Mark



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 09:01:44 EDT
From: LFCP67A at prodigy.com (MR MARK W LEVESQUE)
Subject: chilling

I do not have a wort chiller, but manage to cool the wort in 
quick fashion by placing the brew pot in a sink of cold running
water.  I put cold water in the carboy and after about 15 
minutes the brew pot is cooled. I then add it to the carboy and
the result ranges between 60 and 70 degrees, ready for pitching.
This method appears to be as effective as a wort chiller.
My question to the experts is - 
Is this process an acceptable method of cooling, or am I over-
looking something?
Thanks in advance.
Mark


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 09:35:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Todd Gierman <tmgierma at acpub.duke.edu>
Subject: glassware etymology

I requested information on "shooper" as a term used to describe a type of 
serving glass for beer.  This was in reference to a pair of large leaded 
glass goblets that I received as a gift.

A number of people mentioned that what I describe may actually be 
"schooners".  This may in fact be the case.  I am not exactly sure what a 
schooner looks like, but Webster's describes it as a tall drinking glass 
for beer or ale - pretty generic.  I asked my mother who gave me the 
glasses and called them "shoopers", whether she hadn't met "schooners".  
She hadn't and proceeded to recount several examples: 1) her father had 
always referred to such glasses of beer as "shoopers of beer"; 2) and 
didn't I remember when they (my parents) used to take me to Art's Bar 
(back before Child Protective Services frowned on such things) - "well, 
they used to serve shoopers until so many were stolen that they stopped"; 
3) and she had a friend who brought back six from Germany and called them 
"shoopers".  Okay, fair enough, Mom, you provide compelling evidence for 
the term.  I'll keep looking.  

An HBD reader in Brazil recounted how draft beers there are often called 
"choppes".  Although few people seem to know why, he had read that this 
came from the name of the glass that German immigrants had used for 
serving (and drinking) beer:  Schauppen.  Okay.  So I dusted off the old 
Duden (German dictionary).  No Schauppen, but there is Schoppen.  
"Schoppen" refers to a stemmed glass of 1/4 or 1/2 liter volume used for 
beer or wine.  It is also the word that was once used to describe a 1/2 
liter measure of volume.  There are regional variations on this word and 
a number of idiomatic expressions that use it to euphemistically suggest 
imbibing and inebriation.  Speakers of Southern German dialects use the 
diminutive (Schoeppchen) to describe a baby's bottle.  There is a 
dialectic form "Schoufe" and the word has a French equivalent "Chopine" 
which has some identical usages (except for maybe the baby bottle), 
particularly the 1/2 liter measure and the drinking related idomatic 
usage.  Although a Canadian, my grandfather grew up with German speaking 
relatives.  The German with which he was familiar was a dialect from 
around Stuttgart.  Perhaps he was actually calling it a Schoufe or a 
Schoupe or something similar (schooper).

So it does look like there is such a thing and it is perhaps different from 
a "schooner", which appears to be a wholly American usage attributed to 
the late 19th Century.  However, my glasses are 3/4 liter and so maybe 
they aren't authentic "shoopers", "schoppen", "chopine" or what have you, 
but they sure are heavy.  Mom, if you are reading this - sorry I doubted 
you.  


Todd  

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed,  25 Oct 95 09:46:13 EDT
From: TJWILLIA at VM.OCC.CC.MI.US
Subject: Another Wyeast 1056 Woe

Greetings:

Sorry if this is being beaten to death, but I also have had a weird
experience with a September crop of #1056.  I usually don't brew the
same recipe in succession, but liked my first kegged brew batch so
much I decided to do it again.  I'm a bit retentive when it comes to
note keeping and replication, so this batch was brewed the same as
three months ago ... except for the yeast.  The first brew had a lovely
amber color, good mouthfeel and a great hop aroma.  The second had ...
well ... none of the above!  It was watery, dark amber to brown and had
*no* hop aroma.  Ferment was 7 days in the primary and force carbonated
in the keg.  It cleared fairly well in the primary, but I did notice
chunks of yeast floating on the surface at racking, none of which made
it into the keg.  The yeast pack was dated 2 days prior to brewing, so
I don't think I had a problem with tired yeast.  I believe I'll brew
using something other than 1056 for a while and maybe come back to this
same recipe after a few months.

Gun bai

Tom Williams
Milford, MI


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 06:41:38 -0600
From: flemingk at usa.net (Kirk R Fleming)
Subject: The SABCO Experience

Phil Dickerson asked about kettles with false bottoms and thermometers.  I'd
like
other folks' opinions here too, just as a sanity check and to find out how
others
use their systems (see #1866).

I think a false bottom in the kettle is a nice feature to allow separation of
the hops from the wort after chilling.  I had to remove mine from the kettle
one brew day, only to find out I had no way of getting the two separated.  Made
for a long time of exposure for the cold wort.

As for a thermometer in the kettle--that makes no sense to me at all and I can't
see any reason for it.  What I *do* think is very useful is a sight glass, which
I know Precision Brewing will mount on their pots.  In fact, you might want to
look at Precision Brewing Systems because they use large stainless stock
pots for
their system, which in my opinion have a little better shape for cookware than
kegs.  There are several ways around the need for a sight glass, too, so I don't
suppose it's worth spending much money on.



KRF Colorado Springs
- ------------------------------------------------------
"We can help the cause of pale ale both by drinking it
 and brewing it as much as possible."     Terry Foster
- ------------------------------------------------------


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:40:53 -0400
From: "Glen R. Geisen" <glen at picard.al.wpafb.af.mil>
Subject: re: ? REGARDING SUPPLIER(S) OF EQUIP

Gene:
Pls don't yell, it hurts my eyes (turn off your CapsLock) :-)

BTW, Von Klopp (www.hps.com/Products/VonKlopp or 800-596-2739) is having a sale
on Wyeast, grains and extract - the prices are reasonable for MO, and I've had
good luck with them.  They recently replaced a shipment of extract that had a
small leak - Not that I lost much extract, but primarily because of the pain it
was to clean off of everything I ordered.  They now place extract jars in
plastic bags. They also have the best price around on the 5L minikeg system.

(#include <std.disclaimer>)

- -- 
// Glen R. Geisen 			glen at picard.al.wpafb.af.mil   
// Software Engineer 			+1.513.429.1466 x117
// Sytronics, Inc.			+1.513.255.0860 (WPAFB)

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:16:19 -0500 (EST)
From: dayna kathryn koger <dkoger at indiana.edu>
Subject: beer-of-the-month clubs


Hello everyone. I was just wondering if anyone knew a good company that 

offers a beer-of-the-month gift. I have seen them advertised in magazines,

usually with an 800 number. Please send any information to
 
dkoger at indiana.edu as soon as possible. Thank You! 

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 25 Oct 95 12:32:19 -0400
From: Michael K. Cinibulk <cinibumk at ml.wpafb.af.mil>
Subject: Apricot Wheat Ale


One of the best fruit beers that I have tried is Pyramid's Apricot Ale.  I 
would like to brew a similar ale and am considering the apricot extract, 
offered by William's Brewing and others, that is added at bottling.  I'm 
planning on 50% wheat with OG 1.050.  Any advice on amount and usage would be 
appreciated.  What about hops and IBUs in this beer?

Mike Cinibulk...........cinibumk at ml.wpafb.af.mil
Bellbrook, Ohio 

Return to table of contents

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1867, 10/26/95